PROCEEDINGS OF THE MEGHALAYA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY HELD AFTER THE FIRST GENERAL ELECTION 1973.

        The Assembly met 9.00 a. m. on Tuesday the 27th March, 1973 in the Assembly Chamber, Shillong with the Hon. Speaker in the Chair.

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Mr. Speaker : - Let us begin with the business of the day by taking up Starred Question No. 28.

STARRED QUESTIONS

(To which oral replies were given)

Paper Pulp Industry in Garo Hills

Shri Nimosh Sangma asked : -

*28.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Industries be pleased to state—

(a)

Whether the Government propose to start Pulp Paper Industry in Garo Hills ?

(b)

The number of small and medium size industries proposed to be introduce din different sectors in Garo Hills during 1973-74.

Shri Stanley D. D. Nichols Roy (Minister of Industries) replied : - 

*28.

(a)—No.

(b)—The Department is examining the possibility of establishing lime-making plant, saw mil-cum-mechanised carpentry, cane and bamboo training centre and pineapple fiber research centre. The Government has also approved setting up a re-rolling unit and a flour mill in the private sector. The question of industrial utilisation of coal is also under examination with the help of experts. Some of these industries may come up in 1973-74 and some thereafter.

Starred Question No. 29 (not put, Member being absent)

Mr. Speaker : - Let us pass on to Unstarred Question No. 37.

UNSTARRED QUESTIONS

(To which written answers were placed on the Table)

Pay, Interim Relief, Winter allowances to the College Teachers and Ministerial Staff

Prof. A. Warjri asked : -

37.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Education be pleased to State—

(a)

Whether the Government Have lately received any representation from the Meghalaya College Teachers' Association regarding their pay, interim relief winter allowances, etc. ?

(b)

If so, what action Government has taken in the matter ?

Shri D. D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) replied : - 

37.

(a)—Yes, Sir.

(b)—Government have sanctioned interim relief and arrear D.A. to the College Teachers and Ministerial Staff attached to Colleges.

Shri S. P. Swer : - Will the Minister-in-charge be pleased to state whether the interim relief and the arrear D.A. were also sanctioned to the school teachers ?

Mr. Speaker : - That is a new question altogether. This concerns with the College Teachers' Association only.

Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know when the payment will be made because only the sanction has been given and we do not know when payment will be made ?

Shri D. D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, necessary funds have been released and payment will be made through the Colleges.

Mr. Speaker : - Let us pass  Unstarred Question No. 38.

Incident that took place at Shillong on the 23rd February, 1973.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna asked : -

38.

Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state—

(a)

The number of persons injured during the last clash that took place between Police and the public at Shillong on the 23rd February, 1973 ?

(b)

The case of the said incident ?

Shri Williamson A. (Chief Minister) replied : - 

38.

(a)—Twelve civilians and fifteen Police Personnel, viz. —one Deputy Superintendent of Police, one Inspector, three Sub- Inspectors and ten Constables were injured. The Superintendent of Police, Additional District Magistrate and the 2nd- in-Command, 1st Meghalaya Police Battalion also sustained minor injuries.

(b)—The cause of the incident was the rescue from a violent mob of some persons suspected to be child-lifters by the mob.

Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, whether it is fact that the public are fighting better than the Police ?

Shri Williamson A. (Chief Minister) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is matter of opinion.

Shri H. E. Pohshna : - 39 (b), whether it is a fact that the Government has made some enquiry into the fact of childlifters?

Mr. Speaker : - That is also a new question. It has already been answered in 38 (b).

Requisition of the Head Assistant of the Flood Control and Hydrology Division, Assam to P.H.E. Head Office, Meghalaya.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot asked : -

39.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Public Health Engineering be pleased to state—

(a)

Whether it is a fact that a certain Divisional Head Assistant of the Flood Control and Hydrology Division (now functioning at Gauhati) of the Government of Assam was requisitioned to the Head Office of the P.H.E. Department Meghalaya ?

(b)

Whether Government are aware that the pay scale of U. D. Assistant in the Head of Departments carries more in the maximum in comparison to that of the Divisional Head Assistant ? If yes, then how the requisition was done ?

Shri Grohonsing A. Marak (Minister of State, P. W. D.) replied : - 

39.

(a)—Yes.

(b)—Yes. The pay scale of U. D. Assistant in the Head of Department is Rs. 275-10-325-E. B.-10-375-10-425 and that of the Head Assistant (District scale) is Rs. 275-10-325-E. B.-10-375.

        One U. D. Assistant was essentially necessary to start the office of the then Addl. Chief Public Health Engineer on the creation of the Autonomous State of Meghalaya. No suitable U. D. Assistance was available in the office of the Chief Public Health Engineer, Assam for appointment in Meghalaya.

        One Shri O.N. Pyngrope, Divisional Head Assistant in the office of the Executive Engineer, Hydrology, F. C. & I. Department, Assam shifted to Gauhati was considered suitable under the circumstances and accordingly his services were requisitioned and appointed as U. D. Assistant. 

Appointment of Extension Officer in the Department of Industries.

Shri S. D. Khongwir asked : -

40.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Industries be pleased to state—

(a)

Whether it is a fact that one Mrs. A.M. Simon of Mawlai was appointed Extension Officer in the Department of Industries ?

(b)

If so, the date of appointment may be stated ?

Shri Stanley D. D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) replied : - 

40.

(a)—No.

(b)—Do not arise.

Site for an Industrial Area

Shri S. D. Khongwir asked : -

41.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Industries be pleased to state—

(a)

Whether it is a fact that Government has selected a site for an Industrial area some-where at Burnihat ?

(b)

If so, the exact location of the and its dimension may be stated ?

(c) If reply to (a) above is in the negative what steps Government propose to take ?

Shri Stanley D. D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) replied : - 

41.

(a)—A tentative selection of an area near Burnihat has been made.

(b)—It is between the road leading to Umtrew Dam and the Umtrew river and the area is approximately 90 hectares.

(c)—Do not arise.

Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know when the selection of the industrial area will be finalised?

Shri Stanley D. D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is expected that during 1973-74 it will be finalised.

Soap Making in the District of Khasi Hills 

Shri S. D. Khongwir asked : -

42.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Industries be pleased to state—

(a)

The number of Units engaged in soap making in the District of Khasi Hills ? (Names of Units may be given).

(b)

Whether raw materials are allotted to these units out of Government Quota ?

(c) If so, the names of raw materials may be stated ?
(d) The criteria adopted for the purpose of distributing such raw materials ?

Shri Stanley D. D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) replied : - 

42.

(a)—There are 7 units engaged in soap making in the Khasi Hills District and their names (List is placed on the Table of the House)

(b)—Yes.

(c)—Mutton Tallow.
(d)—Availability of raw material and capacity of unit.

Shri S. P. Swer : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know what is the annual quota of mutton tallow of the State for the last two years i.e., 1971-72, 1972-73 ?

Shri Stanley D. D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have the figures for each Unit but for the total quota of the State, I require notice.

Incentives to Small and Cottage industries in Meghalaya 

Shri S. D. Khongwir asked : -

43.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Industries be pleased to state—

(a)

Whether the Government are contemplating on giving some kind of incentives to the small and cottage industries ?

(b)

If so, the ways and means may be stated ?

(c) Whether Government are also contemplating to subsidize on transport of raw materials as one of the means of granting ?

Shri Stanley D. D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) replied : - 

43.

(a)—Yes.

(b)—By a package scheme of incentive, a copy of which is placed on the Table the House.

(c)—Yes. There is already a scheme of the Central Government called Transport Subsidy Scheme, 1971, a copy of which is placed on the Table of the House.

Stipends for Nursing Course

Shri F. K . Mawlot asked : -

44.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Health be pleased to state—

(a)

Whether it is a fact that students undergoing training for nursing course have not received their stipends for the month of March, 1972 till date ?

(b)

If the answer is in affirmative the reason/reasons thereof and the probable date to be paid ?

(c) If it is paid, the names of recipients and the date on which it is paid ?
(d) The amount sanctioned for each per month ?

Shri S. K. Marak (Minister, Health) replied : - 

44.

(a)—None, form among trainees from Meghalaya.

(b)—Does not arise.

(c)—The names of the recipients and the rate on which the stipend is paid are placed on the Table of the House.
(d)—The amount sanctioned for each per month—

Rs.

1. Messing allowance

----

----

50.00 p.m.

2. Pocket allowance

----

----

20.00 p.m.

3. Dhobi allowance

----

----

2.00 p.m.

Total

72.00 p.m.

Laitsdad bridge under Mairang Development Block

Shri W. Syiemiong asked : -

45.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Community Development be pleased to state—

(a)

The total amount spent on the Laitsdad bridge under Mairang Development Block ? 

(b)

Whether there was any Block Sub-Committee which approved of this expenditure ?

(c) If so, when was that Committee formed ?
(d) The names of the contractors who undertook the contract work and whether any tenders were called for to this effect ?
(e) If so, how many tenders were there ? (Names of all the tenders with their tenders to be furnished).
(f) Whether Government are aware of the fact even after construction of the bridge the main footpath still remains under flood water ?
(g) If so, what steps Government propose to take in this matter ?

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Community Development) replied : - 

45.

(a)—Rs. 7,000.

(b)—Yes.

(c)—On 19th October, 1971.
(d)—Tenders were invited by the B.D.O. and work was allotted to Shri Odel Lyngkhoi.
(e)—3 (three) viz.

(1)

U Lit Nongseij.

(2)

U Brit Nongsiej.

(3)

U Odel Lynghoi.
(Copy of tenders is placed on the Table of the House)
(1)—No.
(2)—Does not arise.

Allotment of Excise land and building near Barabazar to the Sein Raj.

Shri P. R. Kyndiah asked : -

46.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Excise be pleased to state—

(a)

Whether it is a fact that the Excise land and building near Qualapatty has been allotted to Sein Raj-Organisation, Shillong ?

(b)

If so, whether the Government is aware of the fact that various representations have been made by Sein Raj from time to time regarding the delay in getting possession of the said building ?

(c) What are the steps taken by the Government for expeditious handing over of the building ?

Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Excise) replied : - 

46.

(a)—Allotment of the land on which the Excise Barrack stands at Barabazar to Sein Raj is being examined.

(b)—Representations have been made by Sein Raj in the matter.

(c)—The Excise Barrack building will be handed over to Sein Raj for their use as soon as alternative accommodation for the Excise staff is available, for which arrangement is being made.

Total number of outstills in Jaintia Hills

Shri E. Pohshna asked : -

47.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Excise be pleased to state—

(a)

The total number of outstills in Jaintia Hills the end of the year 1972-73 ?

(b)

The number of outstills as on 31st December, 1972 ?

(c) The amount of still fees realised in the entire State of Meghalaya for the year 1970-71 and 1971-72 ?

Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Excise) replied : - 

47.

(a) & (b)—One hundred and nineteen.

(c)—1970-71 = Rs. 39,440.00

        1971-72 = Rs. 40,530.00

Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know what is the amount realised from the number of outstills?

Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Excise) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I require notice.

Lease of Wah Nongbah Liquor Shop

Shri H. E. Pohshna asked : -

48.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Excise be pleased to state—

(a)

Whether it is a fact that the lease of Wah Nongbah liquor shop expires on 31st March, 1973 ? 

(b)

Whether it is a fact that the lease has been extended for another year ?

(c) If so, why and on whose recommendation ?

Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Excise) replied : - 

48.

(a)—Yes.

(b)—Yes.

(c)—The lease of the Wah Nongbah country spirit shop has been extended for a period of one year on the ground of administrative expediency and in the interest of the continued realisation of Government revenue after following the usual procedure.

Shri H. E. Pohshna : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, on whose authority and on whose recommendation the lease has been extended ?

Mr. Speaker : - Without recommendation also the Government can make a decision. 

Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, whether it is not a fact that the extension is for the interest of the lessee? 

Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Excise) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is for the interest of the administration.

Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, why fresh tenders were not called for when the time has already lapsed ?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question is argumentative, the hon. Members should put it in another way.

Mr. Speaker : - Mr. Hadem, you have to reframe your question.

Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, what is the difficulty that prevents the Government from calling for fresh tenders on the expiration of the lease ?

Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Excise) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have already stated that it is for the interest of the administration. There is no question of difficulty. 

Exemption from payment of excise duty

Shri H. E. Pohshna asked : -

49.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Excise be pleased to state—

(a)

Whether it is a fact that the Meghalaya Government has exempted the Military authorities from payment of excise duty on liquor ? 

(b)

If so, the reasons thereof ?

(c) What is the total amount of loss incurred by the State of Meghalaya as a result of this exemption during the last financial year ?

Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Excise) replied : - 

49.

(a)—Yes.

(b)—As a token of appreciation for the services and sacrifice of the Armed Forces in the defence of the country and on  administrative consideration arising out of the need for following as far as possible a uniform practice as in Assam and and other North Eastern States and units.

(c)—Rupees 52,03,600. 

Shri H. E. Pohshna : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know how long the demand for appreciation will continue ?

Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Excise) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, this will be reviewed from time to time.

Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, may e know what are the steps taken by the Government to recover the loss?

Mr. Speaker : - That is not the question at all. This is regarding loss and there is no question how to recover it.

Amusement taxes collected from various Cinema House

Shri P. R. Kyndiah asked : -

50.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Finance be pleased to State the amount of amusement taxes collected by the Government form various Cinema Houses at Shillong, Tura and Jowai. Cinema House-wise for the following years 1970-71, 1971-72, 1972-73 (upto December, 1972)?

Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) replied : - 

50.

(a)—A statement is placed on the Table of the House.

Illicit sale of liquor and gambling at Iewduh (Barabazar) 

Shri P. R. Kyndiah asked : -

51.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Excise be pleased to state—

(a)

Whether Government is aware of the fact that illicit sale of  liquor and illegal gambling are rampant at Iewduh (Barabazar) Shillong.

(b)

If so, what steps Government propose to take to stop these illegal acts ?

(c) The number of case sent up since January 1972 category wise ?

Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Excise) replied : - 

51.

(a) & (b)—The Government have received reports regarding the prevalence of these practices in various parts of Shillong.

        Apart from gearing up the administration, active co-operation of the Siem and public leaders is being sought for to cope with the situation.

(c)—Excise Act—64 cases. Meghalaya Prevention of Gambling and Betting Act—102 cases.

Sale of illicit liquor and illegal gambling of 'Teer Game' at Lower Jail Road area.

Shri P. R. Kyndiah asked : -

52.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Excise be pleased to state—

(a)

Whether Government is aware of the fact that there was wide prevalence of sale illicit liquor and illegal gambling of 'Teer Game', etc., at the Lower Jail Road area ?

(b)

If so, what steps Government propose to take to stop these illegal acts ?

(c) The number of case sent up for prosecution category wise ?

Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Excise) replied : - 

52.

(a)—Reports have been received by the Government regarding the prevalence of these practices in various parts of Shillong.

(b)—The necessity for taking vigorous action under the relevant legislation has been impressed on all concerned ; besides discussion has also been initiated with the non-official leaders with a view to  seeking their co-operation in this regard.

(c)—Ten cases under the Excise Act and 135 cases under the Meghalaya Prevention of Gambling Act.

Improvement of G. S. Road and foot-path at Shillong

Shri P. R. Kyndiah asked : -

53.

Will the Minister-in-charge of P.W.D. (R. & B.) be pleased to state—

(a)

Whether improvement of the G.S. Road and foot-path at Shillong has been taken up ?

(b)

If so, whether the Government is aware of the fact that the nature of work done is poor ?

(c) The total amount involved in this improvement work ?
(d) The names of the contractor doing the work ?
(e) The names of the Department's supervising staff ?

Shri G. A. Marak [Minister of State, P. W. D. (R. & B. etc.)]  replied : - 

53.

(a)—Yes.

(b)—No. The work is being executed according to Assam P. W. D. Manual General Specification.

(c)—The amount involved is anticipated to be about Rs. 1,65,000·00 P.
(d)—The names of the contractors are—
(1) Shri J. S. Nongkynrih.
(2) Shri Arbor Nongrum.
(3) Shri Woolson Lyngdoh.
(4) Shri Harju Roy.
(5) Shri R. Nongbri
(6) Shri S. Kalwing.
(7) Shri P. C. Sen.
(8) Shri Phrison Roy.
(e)—
(1) Shri Symapada Roy, Section Officer.
(2) Shri R. Laskar, Sectional Assistant.
(3) Shri James Francis, Sectional Assistant.
(4) Shri R. Khongshin, Sectional Assistant.

CALLING ATTENTION 

Mr. Speaker : - Let us pass on to item No. 2. Shri Manindra Rava to call the attention of the Chief Minister under Rule 54.

Shri Manindra Rava : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to call the attention of the Chief Minister under Rule 54 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business of the Assembly relating to "the frequent thefts and dacoits in Tikrikilla are including gun theft which created panic and insecurity to the public life and proper. The gangs are mostly composed of the border people of Assam and they are trying to paralyse the whole Garo Hills district."

Mr. Speaker : - Will the Chief Minister make a statement ?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member has drawn the attention of the Government to what he alleges as frequent thefts and dacoities in Tikrikilla are including theft of guns which, according to him, has created a sense of panic and insecurity in that area. He has also mentioned that some well-equipped gangs are operating in the area composed of persons from the border of Assam.

        Government have obtained comparative statistics regarding crimes against property in the area falling under the jurisdiction of Tikrikilla Police Outpost during the last few years. It has come to notice that the total number of cases of crimes against property were only 14 in 972 as against 23 in 1971 and 14 in 1970. The number of cases of crimes against property in the current year till date is 6. No cases dacoity in the area has been reported during the last few years. There has been no case of robbery in 1972 or 1973 till date. Four cases of burglary and 10 cases of theft were reported in 1972 as against 5 cases of burglary and 17 cases of theft in 1971. Some persons from Goalpara District have been arrested in the last few years in connection with cases involving crimes against property ; their number was 6 in 1972 as against 8 in 1971. In the current year till date, 6 persons from Goalpara District have been arrested. Only one case of theft of a gun was registered in 1972 in which the stolen gun had been recovered.

        The figures referred to above show that there has been no question of any alarming increase in the incidence of crimes against property in Tikrikilla area. It is not a fact that there is a sense of panic or insecurity. There is also no evidence of any well-equipped gangs operating in that area.

        However, to prevent any tendency for increase in crimes in the area, Border Village Defence Parties have since been organised and joint patrol with the Village Defence Parties has been intensified. Steps are also being taken by the Police Officers of Garo Hills District for a conference, with a Police Officers of bordering Police Stations of Goalpara District for exchange of criminals and intelligence.

        I have just received further information this morning that necessary conference at OC's. level of South Salmara and Lakhipur Police Station as well as conference at C.Is. level of Goalpara District were held and crimes intelligences were exchanged. Similar conference is being arranged with Superintendent of Police, Goalpara.


DIRECTION BY THE SPEAKER

Mr. Speaker : - Next item. Before I call upon the Ministers concerned to move that demands, I may remind the House that on the day that this House took up the supplementary demands for grants I gave my ruling that in future no cut motion would be allowed unless and until it has specifically stated the particular policy or any particular grievance which a Member wants to discuss. But through oversight, some of the cut motions have been admitted. I think for to day I will strike a via media. The via media will be that a Member who wants to raise a policy cut motion will state a particular policy in which he wants to object or to suggest an alternative policy. But if he has no definite and specific policy to point out, then the cut motion stands withdrawn. Let me now ask the Minister-in-charge or Planning to move Grant No. 45.

Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Planning) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs. 71,28,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1974, for the administration of the head "39— Miscellaneous and Developmental Organisation- Other Miscellaneous Organisation— III— Planning Organisation".


VOTING ON DEMAND FOR GRANTS

Mr. Speaker : - Motion moved. I have received a policy cut motion in the name of Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh and Mr. Rowell Lyngdoh. If the hon. Members have any definite policy to point cut, then I will allow them to move the cut motion, otherwise it will stand withdrawn.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to have a clarification. Here in the list of demands it has been stated "to raise a general discussion". This is according to the form, our cut motions which we have submitted were admitted.

Mr. Speaker : - That is the reason why I said through oversight it has been wrongly admitted "to raise a general discussion". Please state clearly what is the particular policy which you want to discuss.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to rise a policy cut regarding the utilisation of this amount as the provision which has been demanded is for planning organisation.

Mr. Speaker : - In other words, you want to suggest a definite policy in the implementation of this amount.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : - In the implementation side, I have seen at page 275 of the budget, that the amount provided is the biggest amount. It is Rs. 68,75,000 and is provided under the Fourth Plan. So, I want to raise a discussion on this.

Mr. Speaker : - So far as the implementation of this provision is concerned, you can raise your cut motion.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 71,28,000, under  Grant No. 45, Major head "39— Miscellaneous and Developmental Organisation—Other Miscellaneous Organisation—III— Planning Organisation" at page 275 of the Budget, be reduced to Rs. 1·00 i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs. 71,28,000, do stand reduced to Rs.1·00.

Mr. Speaker : - The cut motion is moved.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : - Sir, the purpose of my cut motions to discuss the policy of the Government for utilisation of this money which has been provided under the "Head Miscellaneous and Development Organisation. Other Miscellaneous Organisation III Planning Organisation." Mr. Speaker, Sir, when we look at the amount which has been demanded by the Government it is a big one. The Government while demanding this amount, according to the statement in the budget itself seems to have admitted the fact that the Planning Cell of the Government, i.e., the Department itself, is not fully organised. Only a little amount has been provided there for the appointment of the office staff for the development without proper planning. On the other hand Mr. Speaker, Sir, the amount which has been provided under this head is big enough for the development scheme under the 4th Plan. But because of lack of planning by the Government the amount which was provided last year was not properly utilised and the provision for this year again is very big one, and I am afraid it will meet the same fate. Sir, I may point out here that we have got many schemes under the 4th Plan. So many Tourists Schemes, Sir, in the Stat, for instance in our District alone i.e., Khasi Hills we have proposed under the 4th Plan and that these schemes have been approved by the Government of India with certain amount to be utilised within a specific time. In Jakrem there is a Hot Spring and we have got a scheme approved by the Government and then for Nohsngithiang there is a scheme for converting it into a beauty spot and for Mawthadraishan there is some amount which has been allotted for construction of an approach road around this mountain in order to develop that area as a beauty spot. And then Mr. Speaker, Sir, not only tourism but also for the development of the Umiam Lake we have got provision in the 4th Plan. Now, Sir, at the end of the 4th Plan the Government have not been able to develop these places because of lack planning organisation. Say, when there was provision for certain scheme, they did not foresee how that scheme will be implemented, who will be concerned to get the thing done, the District Councils, the syiems, the sidlars, and the land owners are there who will do the negotiation, who will do the survey and the construction. In that way, time ran out the works remain undone. There are many development schemes for the rural area, such as health, communication and so on. In my western area of Khasi Hills District we have got as many as 13 new roads to be included under the 4th Plan but if you review Sir, at this fag end of the year you will find that all schemes which were sanctioned lapsed.

Mr. Speaker : - Mr. Lyngdoh you are discussing about the main development work but that you are opposing the method of spending the money. According to you that is wrong, there is something wrong the implementation.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : - That is why I just cite the instances to show that there is wrong planning and inefficiency in execution. They have been utilising the money in the wrong was as for instance, in the matter of communication the amount has been provided under the Fourth Plan for the western area of Khasi Hills and according to our finding the work did not cover the entire area not even one-fourth of what was provided to do without the time limit of the  plan. Money is utilised only for expansion of the same roads from here to Nongstoin and how money has been taken form one scheme to another. The money earmarked for communication in the western area has been spent for expansion to Shillong-Nongstoin Road only. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just cite the instances to show money has been misspent on this scheme.

Mr. Speaker : - Mr. Lyngdoh may I point out to you the main points. You have admitted the Government has the planning Board both at the State level and the District level. Is there anything wrong about the work of these planning Boards as a whole ? Until and unless you can point out this defect you will get nowhere.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : - These are only advisory but there is a shortage of technical personnel in the Planning Department also. Sir, a Planning Board is there in the State level and in the Director level but those persons are non-technical people. They have taken the public leaders only.

Mr. Speaker : - In other words you suggest that there should be more experts.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : - Yes Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the Planning Board at the State level and the District level the persons that have been chosen it seems to me, are those interested persons that have got influence on the Government, they do not know anything about development of the State. So according to me, Sir, there is inefficiency in the Planning Board itself, that is why, the schemes which have been taken up for implementation failed. So I am not satisfied with this policy of the Government in implementing the plan schemes. Hence I move this cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : - Mr. Rowell Lyngdoh is absent. Prof. Majaw.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - I rise to  support the cut motion moved by Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh on planning policy. The point I would like to stress ins that although this is perhaps the largest budget that we have had in the three years of the existence of this State and the Autonomous State, yet it does not seem from the memorandum on the budget estimates provided that as a result of planning the receipts of the State would be in proportion to what is expected. Investment in money, when Government is planning, should always aim at capital formation so that the growth of capital brings larger and larger revenue to the State by investigation certain sums of money. We do not oppose the investment of certain sums of money. I remember in the last Session we had been accused of being “frogs in a well”. When large sums of money are involved, it is the duty of the Government to see that the money invested aims involved, it is the duty of the Government to see that the money invested aims at capital formation. Now from last year’s budget, for example i.e., 1972-73, a budget of Rs. 24·97 crores would bring State receipts of Rs. 1·56 crores. From a budget of Rs. 24 crores, State receipts are 1 crore 56 lakhs. Now this year the budget has risen to Rs. 51.92 crores while the State receipts would be only Rs. 161 lakhs, an increase of only Rs. 5 lakhs. When the present budget has more than doubled its total expenditure, including State Plan, normal expenditure, Central sponsored Schemes, etc.,

Mr. Speaker : - You are criticising the Budget.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - It is linked up with this.

Mr. Speaker : - Capital formation cannot be expected to be as it is.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - It is true, but at least the amount invested this year—this year is yet to begin in the next few days— and therefore the planning that is aimed at bringing the State receipts to Rs. 1,16,00,000/- I feel that there might be a change in planning specially when we compare with the proportion of last year's accounts of investment of Rs. 24 crores.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Mr. Majaw is referring to the Revenue receipts, I believe.

Mr. Speaker : - There are two points raised by the hon. Members. Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh is pressing his point that the Government should employ more experts, especially technical experts, to help the Planning Board both at the State and District levels. Prof. Majaw is pleading for the Planning to have more capital formation. These are the two points which the Minister for Planning will have to reply. Will the Minister for Planning reply ?

Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Planning) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the main point raised and suggested by the hon. Member, Mr. Lyngdoh, as stated yesterday in my general reply to the Budget discussion, I think I had emphasised the fact that we are still facing great difficulties due to shortage of technical personnel. So in this I am of one mind with Mr. Lyngdoh, that the Government will have to make all-out efforts to get more technical and experienced personnel in the Department. As to the question raised by Prof. Majaw, the Chief Minister has already replied that we cannot in a year or two, or even three, get receipts from the capital assets that we are creating now through various schemes. So, in view of this ...........

Mr. Speaker : - But whether the Government is interested more on capital formation or not as suggested by the hon. Member ?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - I would request, through you, Sir, the hon. Member from Mawhati to realise that at present this Government is primarily engaged in creating the necessary infrastructure. I would like him to fall in line with the idea that it is necessary to create the infrastructure for more and more schemes and, as the same time, it should be realised that while we will be going in for self-help schemes to bring more revenue to the State, we should also realise the backwardness of our people whom we represent. They are socially and economically backward. While we would all like to fall in line with the suggestions that we should go for more schemes, we cannot, at this stage, also avoid providing social services to the people. As far as the scheme for providing social services is concerned it shall never bring revenue to us. I would, therefore, request, through you, Sir, that the hon. Members would do well to get a correct picture of the State and advise Government in certain circumstances as to how to proceed. It is a fact that, at present, our revenue is limited. In fact, the hon. Members might have observed that against the Plan allocation of Rs. 8·09 crores for the current year, the Government of India in the Planning Commission has agreed to make a bigger allocation to the tune of Rs. 12 crores. Here also the State has its responsibility to contribute its share and, for that purpose, we have been raising public loan but, at this stage, in spite of out best efforts, it is not possible to meet our share form out own revenue. I would request the hon. Member form Mawhati to realise how the Annual Plans are decided, I mean, as far as the allocation is concerned, by the Planning Commission. At present, for some backward States including the State of Meghalaya, realising the backwardness in every respect, the Government of India has agreed that whatever amount is available or allocated to a particular Annual Plan, or for that matter for the whole Plan period, 90 per cent of it will be by way of grant and 10 per cent will be loan. Now this is the position. We are all anxious to progress at rapidly as possible. We would like to go for bigger allocations. These things should be realised by all of us. But now, how to proceed ? There is a need for providing social services and the hon. Members, both in their participation in the debate on the Governor's Address and also in the debate on the Budget, have come forward with demands that this should be done in their constituencies and that the people should be given proper education, health facilities, etc. Now, these services which the Government is expected to provide for the people will not bring any return. Therefore, it is not desirable, Mr. Speaker, Sir, to take only one aspect of the matter and to criticise Government. As I have said a number of times, I welcome, and I hope my colleagues will also welcome the hon. Members, if they take this picture into consideration to guide us and also point out the defects both in the machinery of planning and also in the implementation. They should come come forward and place through you, Sir, concrete proposals, taking the entire situation of the State as a whole and the need to bring revenue at the same time and also for going in for self-help schemes, for which, as I have already said, we have got to create the necessary infrastructure by way of industrialisation or by going for agro-based or mineral-based industries in the State. I know the resources of the State should be increased. But what are the infrastructures for this purpose?  We have got to build roads and take up powers projects to create the necessary infrastructure. These are matters that should be taken into consideration while we are talking about going in for self-help schemes which will bring  additional sources of revenue to the State. I, therefore, do not see any reasons why, at this stage on realising all these things, the criticism of our friends in the opposite should be there. It is not only at this forum bout also at other levels I wish always to welcome concrete suggestions both in the setting up of the planning machinery or in drawing up of schemes and also in the matter of implementation for the benefit of the people whom we represent.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, just on a point of clarification I must say that I totally repudiate the insinuation that we, in the Opposition, sometimes make irresponsible objections by merely critising.

Mr. Speaker : - Order, order, please. I think hon. Members must take the time of the House as a precious possession of all and when the hon. Members moved the cut motions, they must be specific. I request the Government also to be specific in replying to the Cut Motion. The time for general discussion and general discussion and general replies is over now. So far as this cut motion is concerned, Mr. H.S. Lyngdoh has given a very very definite suggestion for the increase in the  number of technical personnel in the Planning Cell. Our Minister-in-charge has also agreed that the Government will try its best to look into the matter Prof. Majaw has suggested for more investment on capital formation, but, of course, he could not suggest as to what are the means to this end. He leaves it to the Government to see that more capital formation is created. I think both the Minister, Planning and the Chief Minister have already replied to this. I do not find, as alleged by Prof. Majaw, that the Chief Minister has insinuated the Members of the Opposition. What he said is that he only requests the hon. Members to come forward either here in the Assembly or outside with concrete suggestions.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : - We always do that Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker : - I am still standing, Prof. Majaw. I think we must not waste time and I do not find that there is anything to be angry with the Chief Minister. You have already suggested to the Government and the Government has accepted it in principle.

*Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Planning) : - May I say, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that so for as Prof. Majaw is concerned, his suggestion it a very his one against the suggestion of Mr. H. S. Lyngdoh. Mr. Lyngdoh has got a full time opportunity in the planning works of the District Council and this year the Government have improved very much unlike the previous years. The Members of the District Council were called to discuss at large on the concrete facts and figures for allotment of schemes either on capital formation or on revenue expenditure. This year we have improved a lot and the Departments concerned have formulated at the schemes, plans and allotments and also papers were circulated to the Members in the District Council and then they meet there, discuss there on the various allocations as pointed out by the Chief Minister, on social and health services from which we do not expect any return or whether we should developed to raise more funds for the formation of capital assets. There in the District Council, they have full time and opportunity to discuss and make suggestions for plans and schemes to be taken up I have seen various allotments were made for various schemes. Therefore, to say what Prof. Majaw has always suggested, that we have never agreed to his suggestion towards more expenditure on capital formation is not correct. So whatever it is, we welcome this very important suggestion  to strike a balance in so  far as the need of the people for health services and the need for capital formation by the Government are concerned. This is, of course, very important and here we need to exercise our mind if want to strike a balance between these two. So in view of this, I would request the hon. Member to withdraw his cut motion .........

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I request you on behalf of my friends in the opposition.

Mr. Speaker : - You cannot speak on behalf of your friends.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : - No, Mr. Speaker, Sir, on my own behalf that the Government should not give us lectures but direct answers to the points.

Mr. Speaker : - I have already said just now and I request the Government that in their replies they must be specific. Now what do you have to say Mr. H. S. Lyngdoh after explanation of the Minister for Planning ? 

Shri H. S. Lyngdoh : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, my point in moving the Cut Motion that because of the lack of planning and technical expert, people are also subsequently suffering and the amount which has been allotted this year under this head is a very big one as compared to what has been provided last year. So I am afraid lest this money which has been demanded this year will be wasted as it was done last year. Therefore, with the assurance of the Planning Minister to improve the Planning Cell and that when he has rather accepted my suggestions, I withdraw the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : - Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion ? (Voices - yes, yes). The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn. Now I put the main question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs. 71,28,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charge which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1974 for the administration of the head "39-Miscellaneous and Developmental Organisation-Other Miscellaneous Organisation-III-Planning Organisation".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)


ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE SPEAKER

        Before I pass on to Grant No. 26, I will make an announcement. Yesterday I promised that I would give my ruling on the Adjournment Motion sought to be moved by Prof. Majaw. Yesterday I had the occasion of discussing the matter with him  and he had withdrawn his Adjournment Motion and of course the matter will be discussed under Rule 50 on some later date. So may I request the Minister, Health to move Grant No. 26.


VOTING ON DEMANDS FOR GRANTS

Shri S. K. Marak (Minister-in-charge of Health) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that an amount of Rs. 79,37,000, be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1974 for the administration of the head "29-Medical".

Mr. Speaker : - Motion move, and I have received as many as 8 cut motions. I think I am the most healthy person in this House (laughter). The first cut motion is to be moved by Mr. D.N. Joshi.

Shri D. N. Joshi : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 79,37,000, under Grant No. 26, Major Head "29-Medical", at page 149 of the Budget, be reduced to Rs. 100, i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs. 79,37,000, do stand reduced to Rs.100.

Mr. Speaker : - Cut Motion moved and now you can discuss. (voices). May I request the hon. Members to listen to Mr. Joshi.

Shri D. N. Joshi : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, while moving this Cut Motion I would like to bring to the notice of the House certain serious conditions, deplorable conditions prevailing in all the hospitals and dispensaries in the State. First of all, I should like to mention about the Civil Hospital of the Meghalaya Government where the conditions are such that the people going over there for attendance and necessary treatment hardly get prompt attendance. Even in the case of emergency and accidents, to cite an example, Sir, my mother had an accident at home some months back and in my absence the was hurriedly removed to the Civil Hospital the same evening. What a deplorable condition was there. There was a private doctor accompanying her, there was not a single doctor in the hospital to attend to her injury and she was laid down on the table by one Ward boy. If they be on duty and present it hardly takes a long time for the doctors to come and attend to such case. After an hour I went there and I saw she was laid down on the table uncared for and there was no doctor to attend to her. Later I rang up the Surgeon Superintendent and I learned that he was very busy at home. Then I told him that the condition of my mother was so serious and requested him to kindly do the needful. It was rather surprising and better imagined then described that in such a big hospital like our Civil Hospital there was no doctor, no nurse to attend to. I had to wait for two hours and after two hours the doctor came started giving first aid to her. So Sir, such state of affairs should not be there in the midst of the capital town and it is an indication of the way the Government looks to things and institution of public importance.

        In our hospitals and that, too, in the capital this sort of things cannot be thought of. The condition of our hospitals and dispensaries is in a deplorable condition. Besides, Sir, I feel the urgent necessity of improving the condition of our hospitals and dispensaries in the rural areas. It is a fact that there are hospital buildings and houses for medical aid in the villages, in the rural areas, but hardly with any doctor or nurse or medicines. Under these conditions I think they are fit to be dismantled altogether rather than repair work undertaken or allow them to exist. The doctors if they  were posted, do not get any facility ; they do not get regular supply of medicines, etc., so that they can run their jobs satisfactorily and render their services to the needy people of the rural areas. In the Reid Chest Hospital also, I  had come across certain cases especially regarding the 4th grade employees. They have been appointed without any appointment letters. They are working for years together but they are not getting any special facility though they were working in the T.B. Hospital for quite a long time. In other States, the Cooks, the Malis and the 4th grade employees of T.B. Hospitals get special allowance but here in our State, this is not given. They do not get any proper treatment from the hospital concerned. Therefore, this needs to be looked into properly. In the rural areas there are villages, thickly populated villages, where there are no Primary Healthy  Centres and if they were there, they are in a dilapidated condition. There are no approachable mans of communication. Therefore the people have to come to Shillong for treatment and they have to bring the patient to Shillong, which results in the death of patients while on transit while terrible expenditure has to be incurred for the journey. It is also seen, through experiences, in many cases the patients cannot be brought to Shillong immediately as in case of accident in the absence of good roads. Therefore, Primary Health Centres should be opened in the rural areas. With these words, Sir, I seek support for my move for this cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : - Will you move it and you support it yourself ?

Shri S. K. Marak (Minister of Health etc.) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I quite understand the bitter experience the hon. Members had in the Civil Hospital. Unfortunately, it was not brought to my notice and I do not know whether it has been brought to the notice of my officers. It is today only I heard about this on the floor of the House. I am sorry to know that the mother of the hon. Member was laid down on the table in the Civil Hospital. It is really very unfortunate. I will see that these things do not happen again in future. Mr. Speaker, Sir, there has been mentioned about the people not getting proper treatment in the Civil Hospital and that the general public have expressed dissatisfaction about the scarcity of doctors and nursed in the hospital.  We are trying to increase the strength of the hospital by appointing more and more doctors and nurses, and if there is sanction those nurses are going to be requisitioned or appointed in the various hospitals in Meghalaya. Regarding the Primary Health Centres in dilapidated condition all over the State of Meghalaya, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would say that in number of schemes have been formulated but anyway, work cannot be executed immediately. It takes time and this I have explained to the House earlier in course of my budget reply, that those buildings were constructed by the Blocks and the Blocks said it was supposed to be taken over by the P.W.D. Unfortunately, the specification recognised by the P.W.D. is quite different. They also think that these Block dispensaries were constructed by the B.D.O. which are below standard. Anyway I cannot give a correct specification and clarification regarding this. I depend on the Engineers and on receipt of their report which will be taken. Regarding the 4th grade employees in the Reid Chest Hospital, the question of appointing those employees without appointment letters is not convincing. Nobody is appointed without a issue of an appointment letter and I would like to say Mr. Speaker, Sir, that if they have been appointed without appointment letters it means that they are not appointed. Appointment is made by issue of the appointment letters and in black and white. I also do not know if these employees were normally provided with clothes say cook, the mails etc. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this can be done if there is money. Again Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is also a complaint from the hon. Members that for those staff who had been serving for nearly 20 years no confirmation is given, they were not made permanent. Well, their appointments were made during the Assam Government. Regarding better service conditions to be given to them the Government will consider and will take note of this. I think this explanation is sufficient to cover all the grievances of the hon. Members ..........

Mr. Speaker : - Mr. Joshi  has referred also to the improvement of the condition in all hospitals.

Shri S. K. Marak (Minister of Health etc. ) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have been trying to improve the service conditions by construction of houses for the doctor and dispensaries at Bhoilymbong and also construction of a dispensary at Cherrapunjee.

Mr. Speaker : - I think I may ask the Minister to reply to the need that the mover of the cut motion demands. Regarding this there is certainly one point raised by Mr. Joshi which you have not replied. That is whether the Government is considering how to improve the service conditions of every Government hospital.

Shri S. K. Marak (Minister of Health etc.) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government will definitely look into the difficulty of the different hospitals and will try to improve the service conditions of them all. With these words, I would request the hon. Member to withdraw his cut motion.

Shri D. N. Joshi : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister has not yet replied to one point. He said that certain people serving under the Government are employed under Contingency and they have been there for the last 20 years or so. Further, in Meghalaya there is no Director of Labour or there is no such organisation. These people have got no other alternative but to request the higher authorities through the Superintendent and others towards helping them, towards ameliorating their poor conditions and towards giving them relief. They are not getting any relief uptil now. So I want a specific reply form the Minister if he is going to look into the affairs of these unspecific IV grade employees who are in service for a long time.

Mr. Speaker : - You must understand that though the Cut Motion which you have raised really implies the the difficult service conditions in the hospital yet you are discussing the general service conditions of the IV grade employees. It is difficult for the Minister to reply unless and and until there are specific cases and that is why the Minister has to reply in general since your motion is general in nature.

Shri Maham Singh : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I  think he has referred to a number of employees who are kept as causal employees although they have been serving for 20 years or so.

Mr. Speaker : - According to the Minister, this has not come to his notice, only today he has learnt it.

Shri Maham Singh : - The intention of Mr. Joshi on this matter is to see that is also given to these people.

Shri S. N. Koch : - It is wonderful that the Minister does not know the people serving under his Department. How is it ?

Mr. Speaker : - It is difficult even for the lawyers to know all parts of the law. So it is very difficult for the Minister to know all the staff from top to bottom.

Shri S. N. Koch : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, does it indicate that the Minister either is not interested for the development of his Department or is interested for the ........

Mr. Speaker : - This is not a question hour, Mr. Koch. Why not come forward with your own Cut Motion ?

Shri D. N. Joshi : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the satisfactory reply given by the Minister-in-charge of Health and in view of the assurance given by him to look into the service conditions of the people and to the difficulties experienced by the people serving in hospitals and dispensaries, I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : - Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion ? (Voice — yes, yes).

        The Cut Motion is by leave of the House withdrawn. Now we will come to cut motion No. 2. Mr. Hadem to move now the second cut motion.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : - With your permission, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move cut motion to Grant No. 26.

Mr. Speaker : - According to the procedure, you have to read the whole cut motion.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : - Yes I except your ruling and I only follow what has been done from the other side (laughter) ..... Sir, first f all I want to clarify the points regarding procedure in legislature with respect to estimates under Article 203. Article  203 (2) states 'So much of the said estimators as relates to other expenditure shall be submitted in the form of demands for grants to the Legislative Assembly, and the Legislative Assembly shall have power to assent, or to refuse to assent, to any demand, or to assent to any demand subject to a reduction of the amount specified therein'.

        (3) No demand for a grant shall be made expect on the recommendation of the Governor.

        I have raised a point of order on the recommendation of the Governor and you have given ruling and since then the demands have been made on the recommendation of the Governor and how much of the provision to be reduced has not been given by you, Sir. The amount is very big and it has to be moved on recommendation of the Governor ............

Mr. Speaker : - Mr. Hadem, you should raise this point of order at the appropriate time and express yourself at the time when the Minister moves the demand and not now. You have raised this point of order when the Minister is moving he demand.

Shri H. Hadem : - Sir, I want to explain about my motion. I move the motion under Rule 147 with your permission. This is a token cut Sir, under rule 145 (c). Since you have given a ruling, I will move it now.

Mr. Speaker : - Mr. Hadem you have always been trying to understand the rule in all its contents and letters. Let me interpret the rule. The Minister, on the recommendation of the Governor, may move Grant No. so and so that has appeared in the Budget documents. But the cut motion of any other Member appears only in this form and not in any other documents. Inspite of the fact that they may not read here in this order paper, you can find it in the budget documents and unless and until  you read the cut motion, the House is not seized of whether it is a policy cut or economy cut or a token cut.

*Shri H. Hadem : - Sir, I submit to your ruling. Now, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 79,37,00 under grant No. 26, Major Head "29-Medical", at page 149 of the Budge, be reduced to Rs. 100, i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs. 79,37,000, do stand reduced to Rs. 100. What I want is that to raise a discussion on the failure of the Government to extend the Jowai Civil Hospital building.

Mr. Speaker : - Cut Motion moved. Of course what you have raised it very specific.

Shri H. Hadem : - Sir, I would like to point out here only one thing, that is, since last year in the Budget discussion we have been made to understand by the Government and by the Minister concerned that the Civil Hospital Building at Jowai would be extended an the number of beds also increased. But uptil now nothing has been done. The Minister-in-charge had personally visited the Hospital last year he had also promised to those who were present there that it would be done within that financial year which would end very soon. It is a matter of deep regret to inform the House that uptil now no such thing has been done there. Probably Sir, the Minister-in-charge now will say in his reply that steps are being taken, sanction has already been accorded, technical sanction is here and there or schemes and estimates will have to be approved and this and that.

(Hon'ble Speaker left the Chamber and the Deputy Speaker occupied the Chair)

        But Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what we want to know it that the extension of the Jowai Civil Hospital is completed within this financial year. As you know there are many poor villagers who are coming for medical assistance or sick people coming to be hospitalised are to go back there are many cases of patients who are in very serious condition, even die on their way back home. This is really a very sad state of affairs. Now Sir, I would request the Government that this thing should not continue for long. At least what has been promised, must be done and at the same time I would like to make it very clear that until and unless a positive statement is made that this will be done, the Minister-in-charge should not request me to withdraw my cut motion. With these few words I resume my seat.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in supporting the cut motion I would like to say that I feel pity for the Minister-in-charge of Medical because he has tried his best but it appears that there is something wrong in the Government itself. It has happened in the case of Primary Health Units when these were handed over by the Blocks to the Medical Department the P.W.D. say we cannot accept this design. It appears that the P.W.D. and the Medical Department are at daggers drawn. The Hospital building could not be constructed because the P.W.D. Department intentionally delayed. Therefore, Sir, I would request the  Chief Minster to see that the Department under him should co-operate with the Medical Department. So, while supporting this cut motion I say it is not a failure of the Medical Department but it is a failure of the Chief Minister's Department which is responsible for the delay. However, with this I do not blame either the P.W.D. or the Medical Department, it is the Government as a whole. In this connection I would like to inform the Hose that on  knowing the sanction has been made for Rs. 4 lakhs, I made an enquiry and I came to know from the P.W.D. that already two contractors have been entrusted with the construction of staff quarters an not for the building. Yes, staff has to be settled conveniently but priority should have been given to the construction of the main building of the hospital which is in a very pitiful condition. Therefore, I would request the Minister-in-charge not to give any assurance rather he should see that something is done really.

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the cut motion moved by the hon. Members from the other side has given us a clear picture in course of discussion about the condition of the Jowai Civil Hospital. Unfortunately, he must have mistaken me for somebody because during last year I never visited Jowai Civil Hospital nor did I commit anything to anybody. Probably he has confused me with an other Marak. However, I have visited that hospital on a number of occasions after Meghalaya came into being. At that time this hospital was completely neglected and I found it in such condition that even one mattress was divided into 2 or 3 pieces. The Medical Officer told me that they were as old as the building itself. Immediately after our taking over, we have at least given some relief. We have provided them with a number of mattresses, bed sheets, bed covers but unfortunately the building remains as it was. Of course we provided sanction to the tune of Rs. 4,19,300. Now the report is that the works have not been started as yet. The detailed estimate had to be prepared for the purpose, technical sanction has to be accorded and there are certain other formalities also to be observed such as calling tenders etc. which will take time. For the construction of the staff quarters an amount of Rs. 1,82,540 has already been allotted and it is expected that the works would be started very soon. Well Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member from the other side has alleged that the P.W.D. is not doing justice to the works allotted to them. But I do not agree with him. This Department is understaffed ; they do not have sufficient number of engineers ; they do not have sufficient number of overseers. Moreover, as you know, many of us want roads first not buildings ; some people want that we should divert all our energy towards construction of bridges in order to create necessary infrastructure. But I hope the strength of the building wing also will be increased and the pending works will be taken up in the near future. But I do not agree that the Health Department has been let down by any other Department. They are the organs of the same body, same Government. So, even if they do the work, it does not mean that the credit should go to the P.W. Department, or Health Department Agriculture Department. It should go to the Government as a whole. So far as the Civil Hospital is concerned, the works—I am not sure since the hon. Members have asked me not to commit anything but as far as practicable, we will try to take up this main building extension this coming year. I hope after strengthening of the building wing as these are done by the P.W. Department, we will be able to do something better. I can assure you that the Government is earnest and sincere in this matter. With these few words I would request the hon. Member to withdraw his cut motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Now may I know the mind of the Mover ?

*Shri Humphrey Hadem : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we all understand clearly what the Minister-in-charge means because as has been stated everything from this side has been done. We have found that there are 3 separate wings in the Jaintia Hills District, the Roads and Bridges Wing, the Building Wing and the Public Health Engineering Wing. Now we  we are told that we are only concerned about roads and bridges and it seems that nothing ahs been done so far. So we would like to know whether the Building wing is functioning or not ? 

*Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Well Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as has been informed by the Minister-in-charge of Health, it is not a fact that a particular department has let down the other department. It will not be correct to presume that the construction of this particular hospital or the extension of the hospital has been delayed because of the negligence on the part of the P.W. Department. The Government is placed in a very  difficult position. We know that P.W.D. had got to be strengthened. The present set-up is not sufficient to deal with the works which were entrusted to them. Apart form that, some procedures are also to be followed. But I can assure the hon. Members who has brought this matter by way of a cut motion at this stage, that as far as possible, the Government will try to strengthen this Wing so that timely attention will be given to construction of buildings required by the various Departments. But that will be again subject to technical personnel. That is not the position only in the Building Wing of the P.W.D. but also in the whole Government in every executive work. Also the Government is placed in a very tight position for want of technical personnel. Therefore, I would request the hon. Member to have more patience. We are all equally anxious as the other hon. Members in this House to see that the works that have been taken up in head are completed in time. But I will not agree with the observation of the hon. Members, Mr. Pohshna, that the achievement of Health Department have been let down by the P.W. Department. As a matter of fact, I am to take equal interest in very department. I will not confine myself only to those departments which are immediately under my charge. I will also take the responsibility for the failure of any other department, I consider that it is my failure. The failure of the administration therefore cannot be singled out because we are collectively responsible, we are severally responsible. But let us realise under what circumstances we are to function as to whether in the present state we have been able to build our man power resources to man the various departments and while we are trying to strengthen the machinery, we are not giving a free hand. Some objections will come forward. People would like that we should not bring people form outside and at the same time we should execute the work as quickly as possible. I have had the occasion to request the hon. Members both from my side and from the other side, to please give me the names of persons who are qualified to man this particular department so that we can strength the machinery and go ahead with execution of the programmes. But unfortunately that is not forthcoming. I would like to request the hon. Members to kindly appreciate all these difficulties, the difficulties which are not of our own creation, not of our own choice. These are real difficulties, practical difficulties and we have to put our heads together to overcome these difficulties and strengthen the machinery of the Government, at all levels. With this observation, I would join my colleague, the Minister-in-charge of Health in requesting the hon. Member to kindly withdraw his cut-motion.

Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, though I am not convinced with the reply of the Minister-in-charge of Health but when I was pressed again by the Chief Minister to withdraw, I am only one and they are two, so Sir, I will have to withdraw my cut motion. (Laughter).

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion : (Voice : Yes, yes).

        The Cut Motion is with leave of the House withdrawn.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Again there is another cut motion which stands in the name of Mr. Francis K. Mawlot, but before I call upon him, I would like to know whether it is on specific Government policy that the would like to discuss otherwise his cut motion stands withdrawn as has already been ruled by the Speaker earlier.

Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it seems that there are 4 Members who have submitted the same type of cut motion. If Mr. Mawlot does not want to raise a general discussion then the other 3 Members would like to raise a general discussion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Other Members in whose names the cut motion stands have got some specific points to be discussed here ?

Shri H. Hadem : - Sir, I am raising the same thing. The points to be raised for general discussion are also at page 3, by 2 Lyngdohs and one and one Syiemiong.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have specific points to be discussed and at the same time, I have specific suggestions to the Department concerned.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - What are your specific suggestions ?

Shri Francis K. Mawlot : - The specific points are specially the failure of the Department to supply medicines to the State Dispensaries in the rural areas and the failure of the administration in the Civil Hospital, Shillong.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in that case it will not be admissible under this rule as it is a token cut. But according to this it is a policy cut.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is actually the disapproval of the policy because of such failures which occurred not only one in a blue-moon but in the day-to-day administration of the Department. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 79,37,000 under Grant No. 26, Major Head "29– Medical" at page 149 of the Budget, be reduced to Re. 1 i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs. 79,37,000, do stand reduced to Re. 1.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Motion moved.

Shri F. K. Mawlot : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are State Dispensaries almost in every part of the Districts of Khasi Hills and Jaintia Hills, but these State Dispensaries as we found .........

(Mr. Speaker in the Chair)

Mr. Speaker : - Mr. Mawlot, I have heard your points to be raised for discussion on the failure of the Government to supply medicines to rural areas and to the Civil Hospital, Shillong. It is not policy matter, it is a grievance on the part of the people at large which should have come under a token cut and if you look at Rule 148 (2), no amendment to motion to reduce any grant shall be permissible. So you cannot amend your Cut Motion because you are not discussing about policy matter but only a mere grievance. Hence, cut motion is disallowed. Now, we will pass on to cut motion No. 4 which stands in the same of Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh, Mr. Fuller Lyngdoh and Mr. Winstone Syiemiong and before moving the cut motion, first of all let me know the specific policy which they want to discuss.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to move my cut motion in connection with the working policy of the Department in two categories (1) is lapse of the department for establishment dispensaries  and primary health centres in the State and (2) posting of doctor in rural areas.

Mr. Speaker : - These are also matters of grievances, that of course you can discuss in cut motion No. 5, the disapproval of policy regarding inadequate intensive to doctors and nurses. Since the hon. Mover wants to amend his cut motion, the cut motion is disallowed. Let us come to cut motion No. 5 which stands in the name of Mr. Stanlington D. Khongwir. Of course here there is a definite policy. May I ask Mr. Khongwir to move the cut motion.

*Shri S. D. Khongwir : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 79,37,000, under Grant No. 26, Major head "29, -Medical" at page 149 of the Budget, be reduced to Re. 1, i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs. 79,37,000, do stand reduced to Re. 1.

Mr. Speaker : - Cut Motion moved.

Shri S. D. Khongwir : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, on this point, I would only like to say a few words regarding the incentive given by the Government to the doctors and nurses. I would like to draw the attention of the Government  to the Budget speech for the year 1972 of the Hon'ble Finance Minister.

Mr. Speaker : - Please be silent, at least you must respect the hon. Member while he speaks.

Shri S. D. Khongwir : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to draw the attention of the Governments this particular paragraph which appeared in the Budget Speech  of the Hon'ble Finance Minister, 1972-73. The Government have already sanctioned additional incentive to doctors serving in rural areas so that more doctors are attracted and the problem of shortage of doctors in rural areas in solved early. Again Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like draw the attention of the Government that under this new paragraph of the Budget Speech of the Hon'ble Finance Minister which appeared at page 18, the Hon. Members  are aware of the acute shortage of doctors, particularly in the rural areas. So on this score, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to emphasise and remind the Government that most of our people and most of the population of our State live in the rural areas, more than 80% of them. So if we are to take care of the people, if we are to give them help with proper medicines or any kind of help at all, we should lay emphasis on the rural population of our State. But so far as this particular department is concerned, we note with regret, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that Government have not been able to attract more doctors because this has already been admitted by the Government that they have not been able to attract more doctors to serve in the rural areas. It is also a fact, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that the Government has offered some incentives to the doctors and to the nurses also, but this offer of the Government has not yielded any fruit at all. A few of the hon. Member while discussing on the Budget Speech of the Hon'ble Finance Minister had made some observations and I would also like to repeat those suggestions to create more incentives for doctors so that we can have sufficient numbers of doctors go to the rural areas to serve the people there.

Mr. Speaker: - The Finance Minister has already said in this reply to the budget discussion that the Government has given special allowances to doctors who serving in the rural areas.

Shri S. D. Khongwir : - Yes, Sir, precisely that is the point here in my cut motion. It is disapproval of inadequate incentive. I do not think that the incentive or extra allowance that is given to doctors, is adequate and that is why we do not get enough doctors to go to the rural areas. So we can add one or two more incentives to the doctors so that we can attract good doctors to go and serve in the rural areas. One of such incentives as has already been pointed out earlier, is that the doctors who are serving right in the interior areas should be provided at least with a vehicle as at the same time now in our society we are fortunate to have young doctors most of them are unmarried. We can give a privilege of a week allowance so that on Sunday they can come back home and meet their girl friends (Laughter). In the case of married doctors, they cannot take their children to the rural areas because of lack of education facilities.

Mr. Speaker: - I think you are suggesting that the Government should arrange something for these young doctors (Laughter).

Shri S. D. Khongwir : - No, no Sir. Instead Mr. Speaker, Sir, we should provide vehicles for them to move freely from one place to another and that also will help them in execution of their duties as doctors.

Mr. Speaker : - But the real problem is that we have more female doctors than male doctors.

Shri S. D. Khongwir : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, it may be so. Besides this, the doctors should be provided with better housing facilities because in most of the areas  we have visited, we have seen that doctor and other medical staff are staying in a pitiable condition. Most of the buildings are in wretched condition. In most of the areas we have visited, the buildings are not fit for the doctor to live in.

        Then Mr. Speaker, Sir, with regard the to the  nurses, I have already spoken during the Budget discussion. We have got nurses not only here in Shillong but also in the rural areas. So in respect of nurses also I would like to suggest to the Government, through you, Sir, to create more incentives and better working conditions to those nurses by giving them better allowances. So  in case of messing allowance, the dhobi allowance or other allowances of the nurses serving in those Hospitals as far as my knowledge goes, is fixed since the days of the British Regime i.e., in 1974 at the rate of Rs. 2/- and even today these Rs. 2/- are being paid to the nurses in spite of the fact that the cost of soap has gone up very high. Mr. Speaker, Sir, besides these few suggestions, I have not also not point to say regarding the nurses. There are several nurses who are serving here in Shillong, for example in the Civil Hospital. They have got duties from mid-day upto 7 or 8 p. m. at night. Their residence is somewhere in Jaiaw or Mawlai and they find it very difficult to go home at night. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would suggest to the Government to examines this matter and if possible to provide a bus to take them back from the Hospital to their respective homes at night. So with these few words I would request the Government to take these suggestions of mine into consideration as to what can be done about it.

Mr. Speaker : - You mean to say that both the doctor and nurses should be given incentives.

Shri S. D. Khongwir : - Yes, Sir,

Mr. Speaker : - So Mr. Khongwir wants to supplement the policy of the Government.

        May I request the Minister-in-charge of Health to reply to the complaints made by the hon. Members that the present facilities giving to doctors are inadequate and at the same time the same facilities should be extended to nurses who are serving in the villages.

Shri S. K. Marak (Minister, Health) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the Budget Speech it has already been mentioned that certain incentives to be given to doctors. The Government has decided to give incentive to doctors serving in the rural areas running from Rs. 100 to Rs. 200/- per month and that is to be given according to the degree of unpopularity of a place. So far as the nurses are concerned, we have not decided. In fact we are thinking to give this incentive to the nurses also. Regarding the Government's inability to attract doctors, I would like to say that since 1970, we have appointed 56 doctors and some of them did not join. We have appointed both male and female doctors. Out of the total number of doctors appointed 20 of them did not join and 7 resigned. So it is not because the incentive is inadequate that most of the doctors do not like to serve in the State but it is not due to the fact  that most of these doctors are for outside Meghalaya. Naturally they do not like to serve in the rural areas because of so many difficulties. I have also told the House that once I took a team of doctors to Rongchugiri consisting of three. As soon as we reached Rongchugiri, the Chowkidar came running and talked to me in Hindi that an elephant came to the dispensary kitchen the previous night. These three doctor could understand what he meant and suddenly they told me that they will not be able to stay there. There are the difficulties and we all know that due to various difficulties, we all know that due to various difficulties, we cannot attract doctors. Some of those who are still working do not like to go to Garo Hills. Here in the Khasi Hills because of better communication an other better facilities they do not refuse to work but they refuse to serve in Garo Hills.

        Regarding a vehicle to be provided to each and every doctor, Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is very difficult at this moment because whatever vehicles we have got, are not useful to them because we have got only standard cars and ambassador cars. In fact some of the dispensaries do not accept these vehicles because the roads are very rough and they cannot ply during rainy days. However the suggestion made by the Hon. Member through this cut motion are welcomed and the Government will look into the various and will take into consideration the question of giving incentive to the nurses also. With these few words I request the hon. Member to withdraw his cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : - You have not stated anything about providing the doctors with vehicle.

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) : - Yes I have stated. It is difficult at this moment because we have vehicle only for mobile dispensaries. The Government is trying to look into it. I do not know how many ambulances and vehicles are therefore in the Civil Hospital. One mini bus in the Civil Hospital here may have to be used for lifting nurses from the hospital. With these few words I request the hon. Member to withdraw his cut motion.

Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to make one clarification in this regard. We had decided to give this incentive and we have yet to implement that decision. But because of certain objections from the Accountant General in view of the fact that their services have not been disintegrated from the Government of Assam.

Shri S. D. Khongwir : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very well associated with the difficulties expressed by the Minister concerned and I understand that it is not possible to provide vehicle to each and every doctor serving in the rural areas. My only suggestion is to a few deserving cases of doctors serving right in the interior of the rural areas. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the Hon. Minister already knew in advance that  I would withdraw my cut motion, that is why, he has taken it very lightly. Nevertheless in view of the assurances given by the Hon'ble Minister I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : - Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the Cut Motion (Voice — Yes.). The Cut Motion is with leave of the House withdrawn.

        Now cut motion No. 6 to be moved by Prof. Majaw.

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 79,37,000 under grant No. 26, Major head "29- Medical" Minor head "B- Hospital and Dispensaries" Sub-head "B- Leper Hospital and Leprosy Survey, etc.," at page 149 of the Budget be reduced by Rs. 100, i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs. 79,37,000 do stand reduced by Rs. 100.

Mr. Speaker : - Motion moved. Now you can raise a discussion.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - I confess I am in a very embarrassing position today because the particular rules that we have in order to focus one particular grievance. One is to move a cut  motion whereby the sum of money is to be reduced and the purpose for making the cut motion is to draw the attention to the insufficiency of the amount set aside for the leprosy work but I hasten to point out as I have no alternative but to move it in this form.

        Now with regard to the amount of money that has been set aside for leprosy work in the budget at page 149 shows us that for lepers' Hospital and leprosy survey, etc., a grand total of Rs. 53,700 has been set aside in the original estimate. i do not know how this was changed to Rs. 53,700. Now one thing that even for the State of Meghalaya an amount of Rs. 53,700 is a very insufficient sum for the hundreds and hundreds of leprosy patients in this State. I had look at one or two items here. For leprosy hospital and leprosy survey Rs. 500 has been allotted for warders. I do not know how many persons can be engaged for leprosy work with this paltry sum of Rs. 500 and out of this amount of Rs.500 for doctor in-charge Rs. 300 which works out to Rs. 200 for wanders per month. Like wise for other none (Mr. Deputy Speaker in the chair) contract contingencies it is Rs. 2,800. Medical Stores for the entire State in the 3 districts it is shown as Rs. 5,000. Now after having looked at the general budget I was curious to find out what was been set aside in the normal expenditure for the Khasi Hills in particular. I am from Mawhati constituency where I have atleast come across about 200 lepers. I was amazed, I got shocked in my lift to read in the "outset the estimates of revenue and expenditure for the Khasi Hills District for 1973-74, that on the normal expenditure not a single naya paisa has been allotted for leprosy whereas there is a general expenditure to the tune of Rs. 13,43,100 as shown but nothing under normal expenditure has been set aside for leprosy. I was wondering the out of this Rs. 33,000 why nothing had been set aside for leprosy but the only amount of Rs. 33,000 was allotted for the Garo Hills District to which the Chief Minister belongs. I do not like to cast any aspersion on the Garo people but only to point out that there are more lepers in the Khasi Hills than in any other areas. Nevertheless, perhaps it has not been brought to the notice of the Minister that there are hundreds and hundreds of lepers in the Khasi Hills. I am not speaking about the Jaintia Hills, I found that not a single naya paisa has been set aside in the normal expenditure. The only amount that I can locate is in the development schemes. There is a sum of Rs. 20,000 for non-Government organisation dealing with leprosy. Rs. 20,000 has been set aside for these institutions treating leprosy patients but it seems as thought Government would like share its responsibility, where leprosy patients in the Khasi Hills along are concerned, with private institution, I would not like to bother the Government by quoting these 200 lepers in my constituency alone. The hon. Members form Nongpoh said that there are another 300 lepers and he would bring them to Shillong for the cognizance of the House and to the Medical Minister if proof is required. I hope I will not be compelled to do the same because sometimes when Mohammed cannot go to the mountain, you are to bring the mountain to Mohammed. But there are actually people who are living in this State under sub-human conditions, their lips eaten away by the ravages of the dieses, minus their nose, minus their fingers, minus their toes, living under such subject conditions and whenever they are found out they are ostracized from the society. They have to live two or three miles away from the villages, away in the jungle in the little hut that is made for them. There they are living in desperation, on the verge of death. They would cry for death to  come but death will not come to them—a lingering death ; they live. They don't die yet they are dying every minute but death will not come to them to case their pains. What happened last year in the village of Mawlong was that one respectable man who had leprosy know that he could not be cured and so he hanged himself. Since death could not come to him he had to invite by hanging himself. This has happened Sir, these are the living specimens of humanity but dying specimens. I described the other day, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, how the rats rodents-came out of the fields and chewed the mangled toes-those rotten parts of these lappers and they were not aware because they cannot feel-from house to house and infecting other persons and by that the disease spreads. So, I would earnestly plead that for this particular disease in Khasi Hills allotment should and must be made for leprosy as a normal expenditure and the Government should not shirk its responsibility and depend only on on Missionary Organisations or Charitable Organisation by merely giving grants. It is for the Government to open hospitals for other diseases-most other diseases also and if the Government spends Rs.18 lakhs on Family Planning alone, which it a most objectionable expenditure, they can surely spend some money for the unfortunate lepers who are dying in the Khasi Hills and so I propose this cut motion with a determination to press it unless Government can give us a satisfactory reply.

*Shri D. S. Lapang : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while rising to oppose the cut motion, I would express something on this topic. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have had the occasion to talk about the grievances as faced by the wretched people living in the Bhoi area who have been the victims of this dangerous disease. Now, the Government is really facing great difficulties on how to rub out this disease form these areas. As mentioned by the hon. Member from Mawhati that there are more patients in Garo Hills but it is unfortunate that it has not come to the notice of the Government. It may be due to the fact that the statistics have not been brought out for the Government to see. Now, so far as my humble assessment it concerned I have had the occasion to arrange one group from South India by the name of Benevolent Services of India under the leadership of Dr. Christopher and Mrs. Reiss and right away I got them attracted to this Nongpoh area and part of the Mawhati Constituency also. I took them to the Finance Minister and the Chief Minister because the Medical Minister was not in the station at that time. They have taken keen interest as to how this disease can be rooted out from this State. They have also permitted this party to go to Bhoi areas. It so happens that Mrs. Reiss is not an Indian nor a Meghalayan ; she is from America, but through their kind cooperation the party has been able to say for more than a  month. This team has submitted a report to the Medical Department and permission is being awaited to allow them to establish one Centre at Umden for which purpose 60 areas of land have been provided to them by the local authority. Over and above that Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it has come to my knowledge that one agency under leadership of Rev. Garlow has been permitted to go to Nongstoin and Garo Hills to establish another leprosy centre in the areas. In view of these, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think that the Government is trying its best but because of shortage of funds it has permitted other private agencies to come forward to rescue these patients from this dangerous disease. So, the funds that the Government earmarked for this purpose in the initial stage will give some relief to these people. Thanking all my suggestions and also those stated by the hon. Member from Mawhati under this grant. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I oppose the cut motion with a view that the Government will see that this matter will be taken up with all seriousness.

Shri H. E. Pohshna : - On a point of information, Sir. Are we to understand that the hon. Members who had just spoken does not want any amount to be set aside for the Bhoi area on leprosy ? 

*Shri D. S. Lapang  : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the works are already there and I have told very clearly and frankly and the hon. Member has got it very  clearly. Of course, I do appreciate that the amount of money allotted to this area by the Government is very small and I have been told that the Government has not allotted a big amount. However, it is trying to find some way out. Why spend money when we have something else ? I know the Government with all the seriousness is anxious to see that we work hand in with these voluntary agencies and prevent the disease spreading from house of house. I appreciate these voluntary agencies which have come forward to help these patients. I may tell you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that I have sent many patients to Cachar hospital and another few lepers of Umden to the hospital of Rev. Garlow and one mobile van to take these 30 lepers to Cachar. I hope the  hon. Members will appreciate the attempts made by the Government.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the cut motion moved by the hon. Members that the amount provided in the Budget is inadequate for meeting this work of eliminating leprosy from this State. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we know very well, as the hon. Member who moved the cut motion has stated, but I want to support this cut motion not particularly because the Bhoi area and the Lyngngam area are the only leprosy affected areas in the State but Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the south eastern side of Khasi Hills also this disease is spreading like anything especially in the Khyrim Syiemship in the Mawhati Area. I met some people a few week ago who have been asked by the doctors here in Shillong to go at Jorhat for treatment there. But, Sir because of the distance of Jorhat and because of uncertainly whether doctors are there or not in the private hospital in Jorhat, the people had to stay in Shillong and, as the hon. Member who moved the cut motion has said, the disease is so terrible and contagious which can spread ; and, as far as I understand, there are hundreds of people who have been affected by this disease in the south-eastern portion of the district of Khasi Hills. So Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as the Government is not fully aware of the incident of this disease in other parts of this disease in other parts of the State, I would suggest that sufficient fund be made in the budget to combat this disease. Now it is seen that the Government is still providing a big amount of contingency funds as usually provided, for meeting the inadequacy of funds. The hon. mover has stated that the amount provided for this particular purpose under this grant is too small. So, I propose that Government  should resort to Contingency fund and re-appropriation from the current year's budget, if necessary, to meet the inadequacy of fund. With these few words, I support the cut motion and resume my seat.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while supporting the cut motion moved by the hon. Member from Mawhati, I would like to bring to the motive of the Government that not only the Bhoi area, as Mr. Lyngdoh has just now mentioned, but also the Lyngngam areas, which is one of the neglected areas in the State. The whole area from Maheshkhola to Riangmaw and Nongshram and the area of Jyrngam sirdarship, do not have even a single dispensary. So asthma and other serious disease are prevalent in these area. Now speaking on leprosy, I do fully agree with the hon. Member from Mawhati that the Government should at least provide some amount for eradication of leprosy in the  Bhoi area as well as Lyngngam area and at the same time I oppose the suggestions given by the hon. Member from Nongpoh in saying that why should Government sanction for that purpose, when other voluntary agencies from outside are willing to help us. If we are to depend upon others, and if the Government is not willing to help our own people, I do not see that we will be able to eradicate diseases in the State.

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I rise to clarify the position ? I did not say that the Government should not allot any fund for eradication of this disease. But in view of limitation of funds with the amount allotted plus the agencies, we can pull on with the work and that the Government, I repeat, the Government will provide grants and take up this matter in a better form in the coming year. I think my colleagues will not misunderstand my statement.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if I am not mistaken, the hon. Members has not mentioned any loan. What he said was that because there are such persons who are willing to volunteer their services in the area, the  Government should not accord sanction of grants for eradication of this disease. Well, Sir, in all the policies of the Government and in the Governor's Address as well as the Budget speech, we always find these same words - the eradication of poverty, ignorance and disease. Leprosy is the most dangerous disease and once it attacks a person, it is difficult to cure without proper treatment. Now first of all, if we are to establish dispensary for treatment of the disease, I think it is the duty of the Government to do so, to first prevent the occurrence of other diseases. Now when we speak of leprosy, which is now prevalent in some parts of the State, in some particular areas, I don't think it is difficult on the part of the Government to collect statistics or data from such affected areas, I mean such areas which are affected by leprosy. With  these few words I resume my seat.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Now I call upon the Minister incharge to reply.

*Shri S. K. Marak (Minister, Health) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I quite appreciate the concern expressed by the hon. Members living in various parts of the State. But I would not agree with one hon. Member when he said in course of his discussion that since we belong to a different District, the whole amount of Rs. 53,700 will be utilised for that particular district only. Well Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when I am here in the Ministry I do not belong to anybody, but I belong to all. This remark of the hon. Member is not palatable, that actually the amount of Rs. 53,700, will go to Garo Hills and then there is only one colony run by the Government and that another amount has been spent on it. Therefore, we have not certain amount totaling about Rs. 1,58,000 in the plan. If we read volume 3 of the Budget at page 18, we will find Rs. 1,18,000 has been provided for the S.E.T. Treatment Centre.

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on a point of information. That is under Grant No. 27 and not under Grant No. 26. At page 18, there is Grant No. 27 on Public Health. My contention is that the present amount is not earmarked for the District, but rather to redistribute that money or take out from some contingency fund for Khasi and Jaintia Hills District and to assure us as to how to develop schemes under Grant No. 26. But under this grant a major portion of that money is going to Garo Hills for leprosy which should have come to Khasi Hills District.

*Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this does not mean that there is a new scheme for the leprosy colony which is located there near about Tura. This is not included in the plan programme but in the normal programme and that colony existed for a number of years and is still existing now. As such, this amount is required for the continuation of that colony by way of paying to the staff and other executive officers. So it will not be correct to say that this entire amount is being spent only in respect of Garo Hills.

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, although the Hospital or dispensary has been there since pre- Meghalaya days, nonetheless it is true that it is located there. But under this Grant No. 26 there is no provision for any normal expenditure for Khasi Hills which should have been done under the development scheme, but no development is here and the only way out is that we can develop out of his fund earmarked of leprosy especially meant for Garo Hills District.

(At this State the Speaker occupied the Chair)

*Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, it should have been clear to the hon. Member who put the question whether there is such colony is existence for which purpose the amount has been budgetted. But if that is done only for Garo Hills the reply should have been given straight away. But for the hon. Member to indicate to this House that since the Member hails from Garo Hills that all Grants were given to Garo Hills only, I think this is very unfair.

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, in addition to that, may we know that since there is no colony or additional centers to be located in Garo Hills, can we not divert this money for Khasi and Jaintia Hills where we know there are hundred of lepers ? Why not some money be set aside for Khasi Hills also under normal expenditure.

*Shri S. K. Marak (Minister, Health) : - Once we have got a provision under the Plan, I do not know whether it should be distributed according to the requirement of each district.

*Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request the hon. Member to realise that the lepers Colony in Tura was established by the Britishers. So we cannot charge the expenditure for that particular colony under the Plan. It comes under the normal item. Whatever centre and dispensary is going to be established it should be from the Plan and the money will be provided accordingly. The hon. Member is in the know of this, he should not be so argumentative.

*Shri S. K. Marak (Minister, Health) : - May I continue Mr. Speaker, Sir. As I have pointed earlier we huge allotted Rs. 1,18,000/- for establishing all these S.E. T. Centres and we are also in a position to give all kinds of grants from the 'Non- Organisation' for combating leprosy in the Bhoi area and some other places. Since there was already a Leprosy Centre in the Bhoi area which was established and managed by the Missionaries, we propose to establish this Centre if the Government of India will recommended to accord necessary sanction. The Centre will be opened in the Khasi Hills and definitely in the Bhoi areas which are contiguous to some neighbouring places in the area and in which this disease of leprosy in found prevalent till today. Therefore, the Government is considering for establishing some sort of Centres so that the people can be helped to a considerable extent and it is the policy of the Government to execute this only after the schemes have been finalised and when a technical approval is received. I am not a doctor my self, I am holding only the portfolio of Health, therefore, I am not an expert to explain this. But it seems the Government of India is in favour of establishment of Leprosy Institutions in Meghalaya and those place and villages which have been badly infected by leprosy will get first preference and should be given top priority if not to eradicate at least to lessen the panic of leprosy. With these words I would request the Hon. Member to withdraw his cut motion.

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to have more clarification from the Minister because in his reply he has referred to Grant No. 27 even though we are discussion Grant No. 26. I would think I should seek some more clarification in this regard since the Minister has brought about this Grant No. 27 of the last year's budget where Rs. 1,09,000 have been earmarked for the setting up of the S.E.T. Centres under Leprosy Control Scheme. May we know where such centres. I want to know whether Centres have been opened at all.

Shri S. K. Marak (Minister, Health) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I may not be able to tell him outright but since some of the personnel were sent for training outright, I think some centres have been opened, I will require notice at the moment.

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I inform the Minister that in that Bhoi area especially in Mawhati, my Constituency, which I represent there is no S.E. T. Centre. It may be there in the adjoining Constituencies. I am not aware that the Government is going to establish such Centres in this particular place where I know there are at least 200 known lepers. Then in the village of Rongjeng and some other villages in the Bhoi area where people have been badly infected by leprosy and again in the village of Umden where half of the inhabitants have also been afflicted by this disease and in view of the extreme situation in almost all the place in the Bhoi area I would strongly urge the Government to do something to set up a Centre out of the money which is going to be spent i.e., Rs. 1,18,000 in the coming year in which Government proposes to set up these centres.

*Shri S. K. Marak (Minister, Health) : - As pointed out by the hon. Member we are going to set up one centre in the Khasi Hills and for Garo Hills, the existing Centre is at Ronjeng and there is not possibility of setting up another centre.

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : - May we know the definite are where the Government is considering to set up S.E.T. Centre in the Khasi Hills ?

*Shri S. K. Marak (Minister, Health) : - I have already answered that the most affected area is the Bhoi area. I have seen the area and I do not know the name of the village which was badly affected by leprosy. I had been to Garo Hills also recently and I have seen the site in which this Centre is going to be established and the Government will look for finances for the Government of India so that these Leprosy Colonies which are self-contained like that of Makhuma in Silchar set up by some missionaries are also established here in Meghalaya. Then I was told that some other interested missionaries are coming forward to help us in these eradication of this disease and I believe all the people welcome this suggestion. We have discussed here about leprosy in the Bhoi area and definitely one S.E.T. Centre will be located there.

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Well, is the Government prepared to give more incentives  to the deserving cases ?

Mr. Speaker : - I have listened very carefully to the discussion of this Cut Motion and I found that most of the discussions are in the nature of cross examination. But the only real problem according to the Mover, is that the amount set aside for leprosy work in insufficient.

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : - It was in opening that insufficiency of fund. I want to ask that if grants are to be given, they should be given sufficiently, and secondly regarding the setting up of one leprosy colony to be located at Umden. May I suggest to the Government that the Centre should be in a centrally located place because if it is put up at Umden, the patients from Lalung have to go 0 miles to reach Umden.

Mr. Speaker : - So far as that matter is concerned, it should be left to the doctors. I think it is a matter of opinion. Actually, it should be in a secluded area so that the disease does not spread.

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Since Government has asked for advice and opinion, it should be at a centrally scheduled area. So with this reply from the Government, I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : - Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his Cut Motion ? 

        (Voice ....... Yes, Yes). The Cut Motion is with leave of the House withdrawn.

        Now we come to Cut Motion No. 7 to be moved by Prof. Majaw again.

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 33,00,000 under Grant No. 26, Major head "29- Medical", Minor head "B– Hospital and Dispensaries" Sub-head "C– Ordinary Dispensaries at page 150 of the budget be reduced by Rs. 100, i.e., the amount of the whole grant of the Rs. 79,37, 000 do stand reduced by Rs. 100.

Mr. Speaker : - Motion moved. Now you may discuss about your demand for first-aid-kits and essential specific remedies for every large village in the Mawhati constituency. 

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have the privilege of representing one of the most backward constituencies in the State and one of the most distant too running along the boundaries of Kamrup, Nowgong and Mikir Hills and almost coming close to the boundary of Jaintia Hills with 126 villages and a population of 22,300 approximately in this constituency.

Mr. Speaker : - How many large villages are there in your constituency according to your estimate ?

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - According to my estimate, there are 30 large villages. Now I know very well the problems of the Government in providing staff for dispensaries, in setting up dispensaries and even in extending the Civil Hospital at Jowai and other matters. The buffalo cart moves very very slowly. Sometimes you have to twist its ears or its tails, then the bullock cart or the buffalo cart moves. Therefore, when there are such problems, the Government is also crippled by lack of staff. I have a suggestion to make that in the large villages, centrally located villages, would it not be possible to give first aid kits plus a few essential remedies- say, for fever, for dysentery, for cholera or the pills even for leprosy. Now they are dealing with pills. For well-known diseases, essential remedies may be given and put into a box with careful instructions and hand over to the school teacher of the village or the Headmaster of the school because he is likely to be the least educated person or the the most educated person in the village and is not likely to give poison to his patients. So this is a suggestion on my part because the practical difficulty is that the Bhoi dispensary, where one-third of my constituency has to take medicine or receive treatment, is at least 40 miles away from the farthest village. Then again at Umsning and Nayabungow, it is 60 or 70 miles away for person living in the Mikin Hills border and then again at Umden, at least 40 miles. By the time they walk half a distance, sometimes the patients dies and sometimes when they got to the dispensary, the doctor is not to be found or if he is found, he is drunk. What can be done ? If they have to call a doctor in the interior, they have to pay exorbitant charges. There is a fixed rate of the Government. But as the people are ignorant of the fee, they have to pay for a phial at the cost of Rs. 5 or Rs.10. They have to pay even Rs. 15 if the doctor demands for going into the interior. So I would humbly suggest that in view of these practical problems and in view of the difficult terrain and lack of communications, first aid kits and essential treatment with simple advice should be arranged as to how to diagnose or find out disease and what remedy to be given. There are specific examples. Even Anacin can be given. What is the difficulty of the Government in supplying Anacin, so also any other tablets ? These are the specific drugs that can be given. One does not have to pass F.R.C.S. These should be put into the first aid box along with dettol, iodine, etc. and given to the Headmaster of the school in the large villages.

Mr. Speaker : - How will the Government control over these Headmasters if they are not Government servants.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - No it is a grant. There is no control as such. This, I think, is a practical solution.

Mr. Speaker : - You have charged certain doctors of drunkenness for which you should have brought to the notice of the Government. But suppose these school teachers will be worse than the doctors !

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Of course Mr. Speaker, Sir, you will find the police in the best States. They are always the  people who misbehave. You have a Police organisations. So merely because some persons misbehave thereby this suggestion should be withdrawn.

Shri S. K. Marak (Minister, Health) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, in reply to this Cut Motion ............

Mr. Speaker : - Before you reply, I would like to draw the attention of the Minister that it appears the cut motion is aimed at some special treatment only to one constituency.

Shri S. K. Marak (Minister, Health) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member wanted to have first aid kits for his constituency and he said that this area is very backward. He said the dispensaries near about that area may not be helpful to them. If I may be permitted to say, though I am a Health Minister, but in my constituency there is no dispensary or health centre. So I would expect that the hon. Member from the other side should include all the areas where first aid kits or some other facilities are  necessary. But regarding the second suggestion to give some essential drugs and tablets etc., to the Headmasters of Schools, I do not think that the Government can act as advised by the hon. the Member. This is risky. Who will take the responsibility in the case anything happens due to wrong administration of any drugs. I think  to prevent any layman form handling drugs, we have got the Drugs Control Act. I do not think any school teacher or a village elder can handle this job unless they are properly trained. Moreover there are cases of adulteration even in drugs. Recently I have attended the Health Ministers' Conference at Bhubaneswar where I was told that even the blood is also being adulterated. So these are the anti-social elements that are prevailing in the whole society and in the whole country. I do not think it is advisable to entrust the schools teachers with the job of compounders or doctors. Any way, the Government is examining the feasibility of setting up Health Units not only in Bhoi areas but also in other areas of the State. With these words I would request the hon. Member to withdraw the cut motion.

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I point out here that no doubt there is a Drugs Control Act, no doubt there are cases of adulteration and no doubt there are persons who have taken wrong drugs but it is the people themselves who have come to town sometimes to buy Anacins or anti-flu tablets without going to doctors and they got cured. So whatever medicines that are easy to be administrated that should be supplied to the reliable persons who will be recommended by the M.L.As or M.D.Cs.

Mr. Speaker : - I think Prof. Majaw will agree that there are law and the Government cannot be expected first to break the laws. Therefore, Government will not be in a position to authorise anybody who has not got at least the basic qualification to prescribe drugs to any patient. Government cannot take the responsibility in case any patient dies for wrong administrating or drugs.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Then can the Government give a satisfactory reply as to how they will solve this problem of diseases in the interior where there are no medical facilities.

Mr. Speaker : - In this reply to the Budget Speech, the Finance Minister ha said that he has already taken some steps to encourage our students to take up medical profession and training of pharmacists etc.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - But I am afraid it will take 20 years and by  that time if our Government implements the Family Planning Programme, our population will be reduced to half.

*Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Will Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose this cut motion for out-right demand not from the legal point of view but at the same time I would like to  remand the hon. Member that he should not suggest such programme for a particular areas, it should be for all over the State. Therefore, I would like to  oppose and at the same time I do not expect the hon. Member to bring forward any suggestion on the presumption that such programme is feasible in that particular area ; it is not desirable also.

Mr. Speaker : - I think the Chief Minister also misunderstood my point. The demand of any M L.A. for his constituency is always genuine. But the suggestion that he has made on the floor of the House is rather not according to the law of the land.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I understood your point. But what I mean to say is that any programme which is feasible for a particular area should be feasible also for the State as whose.

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Even the Central Government has selected a pilot project in one particular area in Bhoi an not all over the State. I can give security to the Government that in my constituency if this suggestion is implemented, the people will not die, they will live better.

*Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - On your specific suggestion we may select a particular area and give them proper training and let us have a pilot project.

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : - This measure can be taken in future. But in the rural area where there is no dispensary, and every time I have to talk to the authority for sending doctors, and of course they are complying with my requests. But how many times the doctors can run to the interiors ?

Mr. Speaker : - These arguments are not always very pleasant. May I suggest to Prof. Majaw that according to his contention he represents one of the most backward areas in the State. It would be better if Prof. Majaw selects a few educated persons from that areas and approaches the Government to get training at least in Pharmacists' course.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - And in the meantime ?

Mr. Speaker : - In the meantime the whole State Government is here in case of any calamity and as a matter of fact the life and death are not only the concern of the people from Mawhati constituency ; it is the concern of the people throughout the whole State.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Well Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I point out that last year one Mr. H. Shadap applied for Pharmacists' training but uptil now he has not got any responsible from the Government ?

*Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I reply on this particular point that has been raised by the hon. Member ? Now regarding this course for Pharmacists, the period of training has been extended recently. Previously, the duration of the training period was for 9 months but now it has been decided that this period of 9 months is not enough and such it has been extended for 2 years. There is another difficulty i.e. with the complete separation from Assam the door has been closed for us. Now we cannot end students to Dibrugarh or Gauhati Medical Colleges for Pharmacists' course. So we want to start immediately some sort of training course for Pharmacists. Moreover, for studying this course the student must have little knowledge of chemistry and he must be a matriculate or its equivalent. These are the facts and they are according to the modern concept, modern idea which we have to follow, but I would like to know from hon. Member whether whether he has brought that man or whether that man intended to go to the training or not ?

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, Mr. H. Shadap.

Mr. Speaker : - It has been the practice of this House that the name of any person outside must not be brought within the floor of this House expecting when you referred to the person of his glories and achievements and of course you can say one person from one locality.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - If you say of the achievements and glories then this man has got his achievements because he is at present the Headmaster of one school. He had applied since lasts year and on my recommendation he had submitted or forwarded his application to the Department, but I do not know what happened to it, for only a few days ago, he asked me and told me that he is still waiting and waiting but no reply come so far.

Mr. Speaker : - Perhaps he has not got the requisite qualifications !

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - He has passed the matriculation Examination, Sir, he has more than passed the matriculation. So anyway, since the the Government has agreed to the proposal to give first and kits and we will look upon this favourable proposal to have a pilot project in that area and we to train some person in pharmacy with this submission I beg to withdraw my cut motion.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - You mean a committed pilot project in Bhoi area ?

*Shri F. K. Mawlot : - It seems the Minister does not want us to withdraw the motion.

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : - I said if the Government will look favorably on the proposal, as was proposed from the Chair ..............................

*Mr. Speaker : - Prof. Majaw, at least you cannot challenge the Chair. I did not suggest you that.

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have no idea to  challenge the Chair. But since the very suggestion came from your very kind-self and if the Government will not deny it, I think you can at least look favorably at it.

Mr. Speaker : - But it is not a ruling.

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : - So I come forward with the proposal to the Government that they can look favorably at it and since there is no denial on the part of the Minister, I do not know when the implementation will take place. I would like something concrete to come out from my suggestion.

*Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - I want to clear my position about one remark made by Mr. Mawlot that "it seems that 'it seems the Chief Minister does not want the hon. Member to withdraw his cut motion'. We requested the hon. Member to withdraw the cut motion but I do not want that he should withdraw it with the wrong information and understanding, I made it very clear, through you, Sir, and also the Minister-in-charge has said that these matters can only be considered not only for any particular area, but for the whole State as well. Therefore I do not want the hon. Member to withdraw the cut motion under wrong impression.

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : - May we have the reply at least to the suggestion, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that they may at least favorably consider the proposal to send persons from Bhoi area for pharmacy training ?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Regarding pharmacy training what has been decided has been explained by the Minister-in-charge of Health.

*Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) : - It will be not only from Bhoi areas that we will take, but we will also take from some other parts of the State ; I shall take from my constituency also, but not without requisite qualification. We shall advertise before doing so. But before we advertise, let us first open this school.

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Since the constituency is part of the State and this is going to be a State policy, so I am partially satisfied and therefore I withdraw my cut motion (Laughter).

Mr. Speaker : - Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion ? (Voice — Yes).

        The cut motion with the leave of the House is withdrawn. 

        Let us come to cut motion No, 8 on the same demand to be moved by Prof. M. N. Majaw.

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : - I think Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the detailed discussion we have had to this matter and in view of shortage of time, I will not move my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : - Then let me put the main question. The question is that an amount of Rs. 79,37,000, be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the  year ending 31st March 1974 for the administration of the head "29- Medical".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        May I ask the Minister-in-Charge of Health to move Grant No. 27.

DEMAND No. 27

*Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs. 45,76,500 be granted to the Minister-in-charge, to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year pending the 31st March, 1974, for the administration of the head "30- Public Health-I- Public Health".

Mr. Speaker : - Motion moved. I have received one cut motion which stands in the name of Ms. S. D. Khongwir. Will Mr. Khongwir move the cut motion ?

*Shri S. D. Khongwir : - I stand to move that the total provision of Rs. 45,76,5000, under Grant No. 27, Major Head '30-Public Health-I-Public Health' at page 160 of the Budget be reduce to Re. 1 i.e., the amount of the whole Grant of Rs. 45,76,5000 do stand reduced by Re. 1.

Mr. Speaker : - To rupee one or by rupee one ?

Shri S. D. Khongwir : - To Re. 1, Sir.

Mr. Speaker : - Motion moved. Now you can discuss your disapproval regarding the policy of the Government regarding control of disease.

Shri S. D. Khongwir : -  Mr. Speaker, Sir, on this matter I would like to say a few words after the perusal of the budget. I do not find anything in the budget to show that the Government is really serious and concerned with regard to the prevention and control of disease, whereas in the Budget Speech and in the Governor's Address, stress has been laid by the Government for the eradication of disease. In my opinion, I feel that the control and prevention of disease  should come first before we extend  any help to the people who got the disease. There is a popular saying that goes 'prevention is better than cure' but in so far as the policy is concerned, that is, the Government policy of the Government policy is concerned, as it is formulated in the budget, it appears that the policy of the Government seems to be telling the people to do get sick or please do get sick and if possible, we shall send a doctor to cure you. So my contention in this regard, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is not only a disapproval of the policy but it is more than that. It seems as if there is no policy at all in so far as control of disease is concerned.

Mr. Speaker : - If it is more than that, I will disallow.

Shri S. D. Khongwir : -  So with regard to this policy control of disease, I would like to streets that it appears that the Government is not paying any heed or had any aims on this particular policy. I would suggest to the Government to really fulfill the objective that is before the Government, that is the eradication of disease and it would really facilities the work of the Government, it would render the works of the Government more easily. If the Government instead of only trying to heal the disease in the first place or at the very outset then it should try to prevent the disease. So with these words Mr. Speaker, Sir, I move my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : - You have already moved and do you want to elaborate ?

Shri S. D. Khongwir : -  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like Government to formulate the Disease Control Programme and to educated the people on the prevention disease.

Mr. Speaker : - Any hon. Members would like to take part ? ........... I now request the Minister-in-Charge to reply.

Shri Sandford K. Mawlot (Minister, Health) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very glad that the hon. Member has made some observations regarding control of diseases. It is the same like the Malaria Eradication Programme which undertakes the spraying work and other preventive measure to control the spread of disease. There is also Small-pox Eradication Programme, and whenever cholera, etc. epidemics spread out, we give them inoculation. Regarding Malaria Eradication,, we have to study properly because mosquitoes in Meghalaya, I am told, have become immune to the spraying, particularly in the Garo Hills. So there are other methods that would have to be taken up. It is said that mosquitoes have become immune due to the spraying to D.D. T. but I do not know how far it is true. We have, during the Pak-Bangladesh war, a Conference on Malaria Eradication and we have discussed at length about some other methods to prevent their breeding. As suggested by the hon. Member, Government will try to find out some ways and means to control these local disease. So, I request the hon. Member to withdraw the cut motion.

Shri S. D. Khongwir : -  Since the Minister has given the assurances Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is only one particular point on which I want clarification and assurance from the Minister with regard to the prevention of communicable diseases and other diseases that are prevalent in the State as a whole. There are leprosy, tuberculosis, etc. and other communicable diseases. Is there any specific programme adopted by the Government with regard to the prevention of these diseases ?

Shri Sandford K. Mawlot (Minister, Health) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding tuberculosis, I have discussed with the Doctor of Health Services and other officers. They informed that Government of India's policy is not to give BCG which was given to the children some years ago. But we have already written to the Government of India to consider Meghalaya as a special case. Regarding other diseases, I had occasion to mention in the House last year that unless and until we have schemes for pure drinking water the diseases will go on spreading. There have been a number of complaints from friends that some sort of diarrheoa and gastroenteritis have taken toll of human lives in Garo and Khasi Hills. Also in my private conversation, they said that many have used fertilizers and the people do not know how water has got mixed up with fertilizers and when they drink it, they suffer. I would request the hon. Members also to help the people by advising them to boil the water before they drink.

Shri S. D. Khongwir : -  Mr. Speaker, Sir, just more point I would like to ask, that is, what measure the Government propose to take to educate the people in so far as public is concerned ?

Shri Sandford K. Mawlot (Minister, Health) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have so many agencies, for example, the Social Education Officers, Gram Sevaks etc. all of them are trying to educate the people regarding cleanliness and other hygienic ways of life.

Shri Maham Singh : - Whether any pamphlets have been issued by the Public Health Department to educate the people regarding those steps to be taken to prevent diseases ? 

Shri Sandford K. Mawlot (Minister, Health) : - We have not done so expect in Family Planning.

Shri S. D. Khongwir : -  Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the sincerity that is apparent on the face of the Hon'ble Minister, I withdraw my cut motion (Laughter).

Mr. Speaker : - Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion ? (Voice — Yes).

        The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn.

        Now I put the question. The question is that an amount of Rs. 45,76,500, be granted to the Minister-in-charge, to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1974, for the administration of the head "30. -Public Health–I—Public Health".

(The motion was carried and the Demand was passed).

Chief Minister to move Grant No. 28.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the  recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs. 2,26,75,500, be  granted to the Minister-in-charge, to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1974 for the administration of the head "30. -Public Health–II—Public Health Engineering".

Mr. Speaker : - Motion moved. I have received as many as 5 cut motion on this grant. May I call upon Mr. Hadem to move cut motion No. 1.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 2,26,75,500, under Grant No. 28, Major head "30. -Public Health–II—Public Health Engineering", at page 174 of the Budget, be reduced by Rs. 100, i.e., the amount of the whole of Rs. 2,26,75,500, do stand reduced by Rs. 100.

Mr. Speaker : - Motion moved and now you can discuss. 

*Shri Humphrey Hadem : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to bring to your notice that these 3 villages were promised to have good drinking water by means of pipe system and we may call this by the three committed schemes of the Government. Regarding the village of Shangpung which is one of the big villages in Jaintia Hills, the people of the village have got the chance of submitting their scheme for supply of good drinking water since a long time before Meghalaya came into existence and they are continuing to pres their demand again and again. Even the Chief Secretary of the State had promised the people Shangpung village that their case will be taken into consideration.

Mr. Speaker : - I think to say that the Chief Secretary has promised the people is wrong. If the Government has promised, that is a different question.

Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chief Secretary in his official capacity has given assurance to the people.

Mr. Speaker : - Have you got documents to that effect ?

Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, that I cannot say. Anyhow the people have got the chance to put their grievances during the visit of the Chief Secretary to that area. Regarding Raliang, the water source has been selected and we are expecting that the scheme will be implemented last year but nothing has been done uptil now. Regarding Mynso Water Supply, the Minister of State for P.H.E. had visited the villages some time during 1972 and has assured the people in the public meeting, and excuse me Sir, I did not demand a written document. He promised that the scheme will be implemented within this financial year 1972-73 ; but I do not know Sir, whether that can still be done as we are having only four days left. Unless we have on Allaudin's Lamp there is no possibility. So I bring this to the notice of the Government, through you Sir, that these are the villages which are very much hard hit for not having good drinking water. Since these are long pending schemes, I request the Government to kindly consider their cases by giving them good drinking water, if possible, within this current financial year. So with these few words Sir, I resume my seat.

Shri G. A. Marak (Minister of State P.H.E.) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the hon. Member from Mynso has stated, I have visited the two villages of Mynso and Shangpung last year but I did not remember whether I had promised that this water supply scheme at Mynso will be implemented during this financial year. As far as I remember, I said that the Government will look into this matter so that water supply will be made available to the people of Mynso village as early as possible. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a technical matter and the Government cannot take up immediately or implement this scheme immediately without processing and without investigating. But one thing for this water supply, the Department requires time to find out the  good sources from where water can be drawn. It is to be ascertained whether the stream is perennial or seasonal. All these thing the Department has to check up before the scheme is implemented.

        With regard to the Shangpung Water Supply Scheme, I would like to say that preliminary investigation is going on. I know Shangpung village is a very big village ; it might be that the previous Government had taken some action, that I do not know. But under this present Government preliminary investigation of the scheme is in progress. Regarding Raliang and Mynso Water Supply Schemes, we have already submitted plan and estimates and necessary sanction has been accorded and the schemes will be implemented as soon as we receive the administrative approval. With these few words Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request the hon. Member to withdraw his cut motion.

Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, since we have only verbal promises in the meeting it would be proper, Sir, if we will take a tape recorder and it here on floor of the House.

Mr. Speaker : - Even your speech here is being recorded.

Shri H. Hadem : - But Sir, in public meetings the Ministers in their official tours had promised this or that.

Mr. Speaker : - Mr. Hadem, here again you are bringing issue which were brought in the public meeting. What we are concerned here is only the assurances given on the floor or the floor of the House. But assurances made outside the House are not within my control.

Shri H. Hadem : - Excuse me, Sir, even the assurances which they made in the House, the Ministers do not remember. So I think we would like tot have your protection in case of assurance at least in and outside the House.

Mr. Speaker : - Mr. Hadem, we have the Assurance Committee. If you complain that Government have failed to comply with the assurance you can bring up the matter to the Assurance Committee.

Shri H. Hadem : - Thank You, Sir, so in view of the clarification given by the Minister of State it amounts to the assurance that the scheme will be taken up, as soon as they are ready, I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : - Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion ? (Voice ...... yes yes). The cut motion with leave of the House withdrawn. So let us pass on to cut motion No. 2 which stands in the name of Shri W. Cecil Marak. As the hon. Member is absent the cut motion is deemed to have been withdrawn. Cut motion No. 3 is deemed to have been withdrawn as the hon. Member is not in the House. Cut Motion No. 4 which stands in the name of Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh and Shri Rowel Lyngdoh is deemed to have been withdrawn as both the hon. Members are absent. Cut motion No. 5 which stated in the name of Prof. Majaw is also deemed to have been withdrawn as he is also absent. I now put the main question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs. 2,26,75,500 be granted to the Minister-in- Charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1974 for the administration of the head "30- Public Health-II-Public Health Engineering". (The motion was adopted and the demand was passed).

        Now the Chief Minister to move Grant No. 11.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of rupees 28,43,000, be granted to the Minister-in-Charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1974 for the administration of the head "19- General Administration-II-Secretariat and Attached Offices".

Mr. Speaker : - Motion moved. I have received cut motions on this grant from Mr. William Cecil Marak. But as he is absent his cut motion is deemed to have been withdrawn. The second cut motion stands in the name of Mr. S.D. Khongwir and Mr. H. Hadem. So these two may moved the cut motion.

*Shri S. D. Khongwir : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I bet to move that the total provision of rupees 28,43,000 ..............

Mr. Speaker : - Mr. Khongwir may I draw your attention ! There is a printing mistake. Instead of "to" it should be "by".

Shri S. D. Khongwir : - That the total provision of Rs. 28,43,000 under Grant No. 11, Major head 19-Secretariat and attached Offices at page 34 of Budget be reduced by Rs. 100 that is the amount of the whole grant of Rs. 23,43,000 do stand reduced by Rs. 100.

Mr. Speaker : - Motion moved. Now you can raise a discussion to ventilate the inordinate delay in the disposal of work in the Secretariat. (At this stage the Speaker left the Chamber the Deputy Speaker took the Chair).

Shri S. D. Khongwir : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on several occasions when I visited the Secretariat for certain business I found that in most of the departments there is an inordinate delay in the disposal of the cases. It happened Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that one day I went to approach certain departments for certain matters. I was informed that the matter will be done as immediately as possible and they have requested me to come after a lapse of two or three days. Afterwards when I peeped in again in the department I found what has actually taken place to what they said that the matter is under consideration. Their assurance that the matter will be put up, means that the files has not been found ; it is still to be searched. So when I tried to ask for the reason of this delay in most of the departments, I find it is because of the inadequate number of staff in the departments and this delay is there in most of the departments for the same reason. We have tried to make a comparison between the departments of the composite State of Assam or in the present department of the State of Assam and the departments of our Government. We find that there is a great gap of difference between the number of staff i.e., the particular departments in Assam Government and the number of staff here in our Government. Wherever I go, in almost all the departments, I find the same complaint for want of adequate number of staff in the Secretariat and this has led to the delay in the implementation of the various seems and works in the administration. Now the Government have come forward with a very ambitious programme and scheme. Now many members have realised the question of earnestness on the part of the Government to implement these schemes. We should not only praise the Government for these scheme. We should not only praise the Government for these beautiful schemes, how they are beautifully laid or how they are initiated and how these schemes have been formulated. But the main question that I want to put before the Government is how to go ahead with the schemes, how to implement them is the most important factor. In so far as the implementation of the schemes is concerned it is not the Ministers but it is the officers and staff sufficient enough to man the departments and to implement these schemes of various departmental programmes.

        Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it will be of no use if the Government comes forward with proposals before us and tells us that these are the programmes and plans. But without earnestly trying to implement these schemes will be fruitless. What we want now is sped. The other day I had the occasion to remark that the administration is moving languidly and very slowly indeed. So I would ventilate these grievances before the Government. It might be that the Government may not be aware of this fact. So I feel that it is our bounden duty to bring to the notice of the Government these things to consider as a very vital suggestion and I feel that it is my duty to bring to the information of the Government. I would humbly submit to the Government to see how best it can remedy this delay in the administration and it is our good intention Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, whether we sit on this side or that side we would like that our State, our own State should go ahead in the implementation in so far as these schemes and programmes are concerned. With these few words Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am to resume my seat. Just a minute Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. There is just one other point which I would like bring to the notice of the Government and that on several occasions we, as Members and representatives of our Constituencies and Members of this House, wrote to the Government, either to the Secretary or to the Chief Engineer in the P.W.D. or any other officer of the Government, and it is really very disappointing to have to bring this to the information of the Government that we never got any reply, not even acknowledgement from that particular Department. I, for myself, have written several letters to the Government without even setting any acknowledgement for that letter that I have written, not to speak of replies. That also they have not done Sir. So with these few words, I resume my seat.

*Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in supporting the cut motion moved by the Hon. Member I would like to bring to your notice that there was a delay in disposal of cases as stated by the hon. Members who spoke just now. As a public representative, Sir, I think you have experienced this as well that when any matter has to be brought to the Government by  any one from within our constituencies it is done through their representatives. Such a person comes to ask always about the fact of the matter. What we actually want, Sir, is the immediate reply to the representation with a position 'Yes' or a 'No'. When we come to have these replies it sometimes so happened as already stated by the hon. Member that the reply  given by the office it that "It will be taken up soon, it will be put up later on" and when they say that it has been put up and after a week or after a month they would say that they are sorry as the Secretary is in-charge of two or three departments and how he has gone to Delhi to attend the Secretaries' Meeting, and this and that. And so, Sir, from these  instances we find that it is very difficult to say whether within a year that a particular matter could be disposed of or not. As such, for this very reason we would like to bring to the notice of the Government that ways and means may kindly be found out buy the Government to avoid delay in the disposal of work in the Secretariat. With these few words, Sir, I support the cut motion.

Shri Upstar Kharbuli :- May I have a word, Sir, in support of the cut motion? I do not know if it is this very same delay which has also been the reason for the commission of one of the very important projects which we were not made wise of neither in the Governor's Address nor in the Budget Speech. Such an important project of which I have a copy here with me. This scheme could not have been included in the speeches may be because of the delay that took place in the Department. Of course, I cannot say exactly what is the reason, because the scheme is about the proposed establishment of the Agricultural and Animal Science Research Station in the Centrally Administrated Areas in certain States, that is, in this north-eastern region. It is such a nice scheme which I hope will benefit this State in particular and the whole north-eastern region in general. But I do not know why this scheme was neither mentioned in the Governor's Address nor in Budget Speech. It may be because of the delay in the Department to take the information to be included in one of the speeches or it is because of the ignorance of our Ministers or that they do not know anything about this because, as some one had said in the Governor's Address well as in the Finance Minister's Budget Speech that they have mentioned partially about all the  proposals, whatever proposals, that the Government are having or contemplating to carry out in the coming year but it just surprises me when I came to know about this scheme  and why this schemes was not mentioned in either of the speeches. Is it the intention of the Government to keep all the Hon. Members in the dark or is it because they are not in the know of it ? But I would like the Chief Minister or the Minister-in-Charge of Agriculture to give us information about this particular project which we understand is really a very beneficial project which has been initiated by the Central Government and which is going to be implemented here soon in this region with its Headquarters here in Meghalaya.

Shri Maham Singh : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I have a work supporting the cut motion and also to bring to the notice of the House that there has always been delay in the Secretariat, i.e., in its day to day execution of the works. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in this connection  I wish to say that there has been delay always in the sanctioning of the schemes to be executed by the different Departments. The sanctions came very late and sometimes the sanctions comes in the months of March, i.e., at the last part of the financial year. This, generally, puts the public into great difficulties as the money has to be drawn from the banks before the close of the year, i.e., before the 31st March. The people have to rush for this and they have to line queues before the treasury and also before the banks. Another thing I want to say, Sir, is that the delay is a great set-back to the various plans and schemes because if the sanction for these plans and schemes comes at the very late hour, then in that case the plans and schemes cannot be properly and efficiently carried out. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in supporting the cut motion I want to say that on the part of the Secretariat also ways and means should be found out so that they will be able to pass orders and also execute their work more efficiently and more promptly.

Prof. Martian Narayan Majaw : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support the cut motion and in doing so I would like to point out just one instance of inordinate delay. There is money due to Khasi Hills District Council to the tune of Rs. 90,000/- for Border Markets and Rs. 25,000/- as the District Council's share of the State Revenue, and despite many reminders that they have not yet been able to realise the money due to delay of the Finance Secretariat and, as a result, the District Councils are waiting and waiting for this money. This is an example of how works in the Department is constantly held up. Despite all endeavors and efforts on the part of the Khasi Hills District Council, work is being held up.

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am very grateful to the hon. Members who have tried to ventilate about the undue delay in the disposal of the matters in the Secretariat. I must admit that there must have been occasions when matters before particular departments of the Secretariat could not have been disposed of as quickly as possible as they should have been done. For that, I would agree that this was due, at the initial stage, to want of adequate staff, as pointed out by the mover of the Cut Motion, the hon. Member from Mawlai. As has been already stated in the Governor's Address and also in the Budget Speech of Finance Minister, we have taken steps to increase the staff after have constituted the Meghalaya Secretariat Service. After constitution of this service, we have taken action to increase the number of staff. Before the constitution of this service, the structure of the Secretariat was as follows : -

Assistant Superintendent  .... .... .... 6
U. D. Assistants .... .... .... 101
L. D. Assistants .... .... .... 87
Typists .... .... .... 69

        Now, we have interested the strength of these categories of services by appointing more staff. Now in place of 6 Assistants Superintendents we have 10, in place of 101 U. D. Assistants, we have now increased to 138. The L.D. Assistants in place of  87 we have increased to 139 and Typist as against 69, we have increased to 93. Previously there was no Deputy Secretary, but now we have got one Deputy Secretary. So at present we have got one Deputy Secretary, 5 Under Secretaries and 22 Superintendents. So I hope with the increase of staff in the Secretariat, matters will be attended to more promptly. There was a complaint by the hon. Member who have made a reference to a particular Secretary, that to some correspondence no reply was given or any assurance was made by the concerned Secretary. I will give instructions that letters received from the hon. Members on any particular subject should be acknowledged so that the Members can pursue the matter after the letter referred to a particular Department of the Secretariat is acknowledged. In this connection, I would like to discuss on a particular matter, I think they must realise their own status and dignity also their expediency. I would suggest that they should go either to the Secretary of the Department or to the head of the Directorate. I find in the past that there is a tendency on the part of some hon. Members to go to the Dealing Assistants. The hon. Members should see that the matter is brought to the Secretary who is a responsible officer in charge of the Department. On a discussion with the hon. Member with  regard to a particular matter, he will realise his primary duty to see that his department attend to that particular matter. Why I said this is that there may be a correspondence between the hon. Member and the Secretary on at particular matter and if the letter of the hon. Member is acknowledged by the Secretary concerned, it would be convenient for the hon. Member to pursue that particular matter and give suggestions. (Deputy Speaker occupied the Chair at this stage).

        Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I say this because I was the Secretary mover of the cut motion and I do not know whether it was the Secretary of the Secretariat or other officers who assured him that the matter would be attended to in three days that in spite of the assurance, the matter was not attended to. So I would suggest that it to a correspondence with the Secretary or the Head Departments or any other Governs officers, such as assurance is given to the hon. Member, or any body that the matter is being pursued for actual implementation or action is being taken and yet it is not being done, it may be brought to the notice for the Minister in-Charge. Why I give this suggestion Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is because in so far as disposals of the matter are concerned, it should be done as quickly as possible for the benefit of the people. Now it was also stated that for the financial sanction to be accorded during the financial year instructions should be given to the Secretaries, Directorates or other Heads of Departments so that schemes included for the year get sanction and implementation can be taken up early. But here it is not possible to fix the responsibility for the delay according to financial sanction only on the Secretariat or the Directorate, because we have get concrete proposal from the departments at the District level. Thereby I do not want to shirk responsibility. I am quite aware that it is the duty of the Government to see that the departments at the District level also function effectively. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Prof. Majaw the hon. Member form Mawhati, has made a mention about the non-release of fund to the Khasi Hills District Council for border markets. I am not sure whether there is nay such scheme undertaken by the District Council and for which release of funds to the District Council is necessary. The usual procedure followed for release of funds, however, is that for whatever amount that has been sanctioned in the past against any particular scheme, we must get in the first instance, the report of the completion of the works and also the Utilisation Certificate should be furnished. Without these it is not possible for the Government to release the subsequent amount. The Government may like to pay the amount but the Accountant General may refuse to issue necessary authority slip for the amount. Therefore, it is not correct to fix the responsibility on the concerned department or the Secretariat Department for the non-release of funds to the autonomous body. Mr. Kharbuli, the hon. Member from Malki, has made a mention about a particular scheme "Agriculture - Animal Husbandry Research Centre". He stated that it is due to delay in dealing with the matter in the Secretariat that it has been possible for this particular scheme to find place in the Governor's Address or in the Finance Minister's budget speech. It is absolutely incorrect. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if I am correct, one Doctor incharge of this Department came to meet me in my chamber on 24.03.73 to discuss with me about this particular scheme. He met me in my chamber and discussed about it and I told him that this scheme will be sanctioned immediately ; proposal was there and the sanction is to be given by the Government of India. This is not borne by this State Government and the problem that stands in the way at present in only to find out a suitable place near by Shillong, about 20 acres of land and if I am correct, they also want some building to be made available immediately so that they can start a laboratory. I hope when Assam vacates some buildings they are occupying now for their officers, it will be possible to make the building available for them. It is also proposed that at the initial stage some demonstrations in the Upper Shillong Farm will be organised for public participation from the different villages. This is being proposed by the Government and it is not due to delay in the disposal of matters in the Secretariat as alleged by the hon. Member. However, I am very sorry to find that the disposal of matters in the Secretariat has not been satisfactory in the past and that is mainly due to want of adequate staff and especially the staff who have enough experience in the Secretariat system of disposal of matters. I hope, with more experience in our working pattern, it will  be possible to shape properly the administration n the Secretariat and Government will see that the schemes approved for a particular financial year are giving sanctions and implemented in time. In this context, I would also like to assure the hon. Members that if they have got any concrete proposals to offer with regard to the quick disposal of matters in the Secretariat, the Government will be prepared to examine those suggestions and proposals in a planned manner. With these words I would request the hon. Member to kindly withdraw his cut motion.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : - On a point of clarification Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the matter raised by me is not regarding non-clearance of funds. As far as I know, all the relevant papers are ready, it needs only the signature but for signature it takes a very long time and for months together. The amount is Rs. 90,000/- for border areas and Rs. 20,000/- the share of the State revenue and this is to be cleared by the Finance Secretariat.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I myself am not aware of the scheme which has been taken up by the District Council as border marketing.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : - I would request the Chief Minister to speak with knowledge.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - I would request the hon. Member to give me more concrete information.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, how much more concrete it would be, I have to request the office to bring the file here.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - We have heard the reply given by the Chief Minister. May I know from the hon. Mover of the cut motion if he would like to withdraw it ?

Shri Stanlington David Khongwir : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the course of my speech on the cut motion, I had mentioned about the single file system buy the Hon'ble Chief Minister has replied only to the case in the delay in the working of the Secretariat Departments. I would like that the Chief Minister should throw more light on this subject i.e., Single File System.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would not agree that this system is a wrong system. In this connection I will point out that many officers drawn form the Government of Assam, were not acquainted with the different systems of dealing with files. Therefore, they have to take some time to get used with the new system. But Sir, I do not see that this system is the cause for the delay in the disposal of Secretariats' matter. In fact, according to the expert information, and also from out own experiences if an officer and staff are fully acquainted with this single file system, it will help in the  quicker disposal of matters.

Shri S. D. Khongwir : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, since the time is up I will withdraw my cut motion and that also in view of the assurance given by the Chief Minister.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion ? (Voice — yes, yes). The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn. I put the question before the House.

        The question is that an amount of Rs. 28,43,000 be granted in Minister-in-Charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1974 for the administration of the head "19—General Administration– Secretariat and attached offices".

(The motion was adopted and the demand was assed).


ADJOURNMENT

        The House now stands adjourned till 9 a. m. on Wednesday, the 28th March, 1973.

R. T. RYMBAI,
Dated Shillong : Secretary,
The 27th March, 1973. Meghalaya Legislative Assembly.