PROCEEDINGS OF THE MEGHALAYA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY ASSEMBLED AFTER THE FIRST GENERAL ELECTION, 1972.

* * * * * * 

        The Assembly met at 9 a. m. on Wednesday, the 28th March, 1973 in the Assembly Chamber, Shillong with the Speaker in the Chair.

QUESTION AND ANSWERS

Mr. Speaker : - Let us take item No. 1 of today's List of Business. In there any supplementary question to unstarred question No. 54 ?

UNSTARRED QUESTIONS

(Replies which were placed on the table)

Purchase of Cement by P. W. D. from Bihar

Shri G. Mylliemngap asked : - 

54.

Will the Minister-in-charge of P. W. D. be pleased to state—

(a)

The total quantity of cement purchased by P. W. D. from Bihar till date and how they were utilised ?

(b)

What is the cost price excluding transport charges ?

(c)

What is the transport charges from Bihar to Shillong ?

(d)

The date of transaction and when will the supply be completed ?

(e)

How much wastage is calculated ?

Shri G. A. Marak [Minister of State in-charge of P. W. D. (R. & B.)] replied : - 

54.

(a)—The total quantity of cement for which purchase order have been placed on the factories in Bihar upto date, that is, October, 1972 is 15,650 M. T. 

(b)—The D. G. S. and D's. rate ex-factory or destination Railway Station is Rs. 208·74 per M. T. 

(c)—The transport charges from Gauhati Railway Station to Shillong out agency is Rs. 40 per M. T. on D. G. S. and D. rate contract.

(d)—For each quarter of the year, the Regional Cement Officer released the quantity of cement on the company according to the demand of the Department. The supply for the year 1970-71 was completed but for the year 1971-72, the supply has not yet been completed.

(e)—On supply on D. G. S. and D. rate contract no wastage is contemplated, but there is tolerance of + 2 per cent bag of cement. A general wastage of 5 per cent is allowed due to handling and transportation.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : - Yes Sir. In reply to 54 (e) it was stated 'but there is a tolerance of + 2 per cent per bag of cement.  A general wastage of 5  per cent is allowed due to handling and transportation'. What does it mean by plus or minus ?

Shri G. A. Marak (Minister of State in-charge of P. W. D.) : - This is a wastage.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, but you will find in the last line a general wastage of 5 per cent is allowed due to handling and transportation. 

Shri G. A. Marak (Minister of State in-charge of P. W. D.) : - Yes Sir, this is a wastage. Sometimes if remains in fact and sometimes while loading and unloading of cement wastage is there. 

Construction of Dispensary at Nidhanpur (Williamnagar)

Shri Marinara Rabha asked : -

55.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Health be pleased to state—

(a)

Whether Government is consideration is construct a dispensary at Nidhanpur (Williamnagar)

(b)

If not, when that could be considered ?

Shri S. K. Marak (Minister-in-charge of Health) replied : -

55.

(a)—No.

(b)—The question of construction of new hospitals and dispensaries is under careful examination. Priority will have to be given to those areas or please having maximum need for such institution.

Komorrah Limestone quarry at Sohbar

Shri Hoping Stone Lyngdoh asked : -

56.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Industries be pleased to state—

(a)

The name of the company or other business organisation at present working the Komorrah Limestone quarry at Sohbar Sirdarship ?

(b)

Whether the company/organisation is a company/organisation registered ?

(c)

If so, when was the company/organisation duly registered ?

(d)

How was the licence for the extraction of limestone form the said quarry settled and under what terms and conditions ?

(e)

The respective quantum of royalty to be paid by the company/organisation to the Sirdarship, the State and also the District Council ?

(f)

Whether it is a fact that the Komorrah Limestone Company is working in the Kamara quarry ?

Shri D. D. Nichols Roy (Minister-in-charge of Industries) replied : -

56.

(a)—Komorrah Limestone Mining Co., Ltd.

(b)—Yes.

(c)—On 24th January, 1973 vide No. 1398 of 972-73.

(d)—A mining lease for limestone over an area of 240-55 hectares at Komorrah was granted for the period of 20 years in accordance with the provisions of the Mines and Minerals (Regulation and Development) Act, 1957 and the Mineral Concession Rules, 1960.

(e)—The Company is to pay royalty at the rate prescribed in the Act to the Government. It may, however, be noted that the gross proceeds of royalties accruing from licences for leases for the purpose of prospecting or extraction of minerals, are apportioned between the State Government and the District Councils concerned in the ration of 40:60.

(f)—Yes.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know the names of the Directors of the Komorrah Limestone Mining Company Limited ?

Shri Maham Singh : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not a fact that at present it is not a Company but the Komorrah Limestone Corporation that is operating the limestone at Sohbar Sidarship ? 

Shri S. D. D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Industries) : - It is not a fact. It is the Komorrah Limestone Mining Company Limited. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, will there be a Sodom Limestone Mining Company Limited ?

Mr. Speaker : - That is a new question.

Shri Maham Singh : - It this Company a Government controlled Company ?

Shri S. D. D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Industries) : - This Company is composed of the Meghalaya Industrial Development Corporation with the private Group—the Economic and Entrepreneurship Development Foundation.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - May we know at least the ration of the share in the Company between the public sector and the private sector. 

Shri S. D. D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Industries) : - This Company will be floated with an authorised capital of Rs. 10 lakhs. Out of this amount, Rs. 5 lakhs have been subscribed by the Meghalaya Industrial Development Corporation and Rs. 2·5 lakhs by the Economic and Entrepreneurship Development Foundation. The balance will be opened for subscription by the general public in due course.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - How much is that balance please ?

Shri S. D. D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Industries) : - Rs. 2½ lakhs.

Mr. Speaker : - Let us pass on to unstarred question No. 57. I will disallow unstarred question No. 57 now balance I received very late the news item that this question is connected with the case which is pending in the Supreme Court. So it is subjudice.

Improvement of Hot-spring at Diwah

Shri W. Syiemiong asked : -

58.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Tourism be pleased to state—

(a)

The financial amount ear-marked for the improvement of the Hot-spring at Diwah during 1972-73 ?

(b)

The various schemes and plan envisaged for its improvement ?

(c)

The amount so for spent on it and the nature of the work done ?

Shri D. D. Nichols Roy (Minister-in-charge of Tourism) replied : -

58.

(a)—An amount of Rs. 12,720 is ear-marked during 1972-73 for construction of steps and footpath to the Jakrem-hot spring.

(b)—As indicated in (a) above.

(c)—Nil

Shri Humphrey Hadem : - No. 58 (c). Sir, the amount is nil. May we know when this amount was earmarked, as nothing has been spent ?

Shri D. D. Nichols Roy (Minister-in-charge of Tourism) : - I cannot follow your question.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : - Why no amount has been spent in regard to the construction of steps and foot-path to the Jakrem-hot Spring ?

Mr. Speaker : - First of all, may I know from the Minister whether the spring at Diwah and Jakrem are one and the same thing ?

Shri D. D. Nichols Roy (Minister-in-charge of Tourism) : - Yes, Sir.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - The question was since some money was earmarked, why noting has been spent ?

Mr. Speaker : - This is again argumentative.

Reservation of posts for Garos

Shri Pleander G. Momin asked : -

59.

Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state—

(a)

Whether 40 per cent of post in various Government offices under the State Government are kept reserved for Garos in accordance with the Government policy ?

(b)

If so, the number of posts so reserved Department-wise ?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied : -

59.

(a)—No. The reservation as laid down the Government Resolution is that, in posts and services which are filled by direct recruitment, there shall be a reservation of 40 per cent of the vacancies in favour of Khasi-Jaintia, 40 per cent in favour of  Garos and 5 per cent in favour of any other Scheduled Tribes and Scheduled Castes in Meghalaya.

        In respect of District level posts in each District in Meghalaya which are filled up by direct recruitment, a consolidated reservation of 80 per cent in favour of Garos and Khasi- Jaintia and 5 per cent in favour of other Scheduled Tribes and Scheduled Castes in Meghalaya has been made.

        However, there shall be no reservation for the present in scientific services and posts and in appointments for conducting research of organising guiding and directing research.

        The Government Resolution does not also apply in respect of promotion posts.

(b)—Does not arise. The above reservation does not mean that out of all existing posts in various Government offices, 40 per cent are to be reserved for the Garos. What the Government Resolution provides is that the percentage indicated above are to be kept in posts and services which are fill up by direct recruitment only. As such the number of posts reserved depend on the vacancies to be filled up by direct recruitment.

Officer-in-Charge of Police Station, etc., along the Indo-Bangladesh Border

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw asked : -

60.

Will the Chief Minister be pleased to furnish the names of Officers-in-Charge of all Police Stations, outposts and Beat Houses along Meghalaya side of Indo-Bangladesh Border ?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied : -

The names of Officers-in-Charge are furnished below—

                      1.    Khasi Hills

(i) Shri H. K. Lahan, S. I. - Cherra P. S. 
(ii) Shri B.B. Dey, S. I. - Pynursla O. P. 
(iii) Shri B. B. Shyam Chowdhuri,  S. I. - Mairang I. C. 
(iv) Shri Digendra Das, ASI. - Shella PIP.
(v) Shri K. K. Swargiri, S. I. - Balat OP and PIP.
(vi) Shri Hangsha Nath Das, S. I. - Bholaganj PCP.
(vii) Shri Nirmal Nath, ASI - Borsora PIP.
(viii) Shri Prafulla Kr. Dey, ASI - Tyllab PIP.
(ix) Shri Dhirendra Ghosh, ASI - Gomaghat PIP.

                       2.    Garo Hills 

(i) Shri Gopesh Ch. Gope, S. I. - Baghmara P. S. 
(ii) Shri Jogeswar Das, S. I. - Dalu.
(iii) Shri Birsha Ranjan Chowdhuri, S. I. - Mahendraganj P. S.
(iv) Shri Probindra Nath Marak, ASI - Dalu C. P. 
(v) Shri Nurul Islam. S. I. - Ampati PIP.
(vi) Shri Nirmolendu Deb, S. I. - Kalichar P. P.

                       3.    Jaintia Hills 

(i) Shri R. I. Jyrwa, S. I. - Jowai P. S. 
(ii) Shri M. Marak, S. I. - Dawki P. S. 
(iii) Shri A. Hussain, S. I. - Khlehriat OP.
(iv) Shri B. C. Kowar, S. I. - Muktapur P. P. 
(v) Shri B. B. Sharma, S. I. - Umkiang PO.
(vi) Shri B. L. Roy, S. I. - Dawki PCP.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Would it be possible to know the dates of appointment of these persons ?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - That is purely a new question.

Mr. Speaker : - Yes, you want to know only the names of all officers-in-charge of the Police Stations, Outposts and Beat House along the Meghalaya side of the Indo-Bangladesh border ?

Construction of Mawlyndap-Mawmih Road

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh asked : -

61.

Will the Minister-in-Charge, P. W. D. (R. & B.) be pleased to state—

(a)

Whether it is a fact that the scheme for construction of the Mawlyndep-Mawmih Road within the Umroi Constituency has been approved by the Government ?

(b)

If so, what was the amount sanctioned for the purpose ?

(c)

When the construction works are going to be stated ?

Shri G. A. Marak [Minister of State, P. W. D. (R. & B.)] replied : -

61.

(a)—Yes.

(b)—Rs. 9,93,000 (Rupees ninety three thousand) only was sanctioned as per estimate.

(c)—The work will be started as soon as land is handed over to P. W. D. by the Civil Authorities concerned.


Construction of water supply schemes

Shri Enowell Pohshna asked : -

62.

Will the Minister-in-Charge, Public Health Engineering be pleased to state—

(a)

Whether tenders have been invited for construction of :

(i)

Jarain Water Supply Scheme.

(ii)

Pdengshakap Water Supply.

(iii)

Pohkesh Water Supply.
(b)

If so, what are (i) the names of the contractors who have submitted tenders for each of the work (ii) rates offered by each contractor and (iii) to whom the works were allotted and at what rate ?

Shri G. A. Marak [Minister of State, P. W. D. (R. & B.)] replied : -

62.

(a)—Yes.

(b)—A list placed on the table of the House.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, we got the question only just now. Formerly, it was the practice to send the question to us the night before so that we would at least look into if for putting supplementaries. Now we got it as soon as we enter here. Will it be possible to give us some time in these matters ?

Mr. Speaker : - Sometime there is difficulty to cope with the problem. Sometimes the questions came very late to the offence from the Press and this is really unavoidable. It is really out of courtesy to send our persons to be houses and residences of the hon. Members at late hours. So the practice is tat when we received the questions too late, we circulated the questions half an hour before the beginning of the sitting.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : - Excuse me, Sir. But half an hour before the House meets when we went to enter into the Chamber, we find tat all the doors are closed. We request that at least the Chamber should be kept open.


ADJOURNMENT MOTION

Mr. Speaker : - The Members are free to enter right from 8 A. M. 

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - But the doors are locked, Sir.

Mr. Speaker : - When I came and passed through, I found that the Chamber is open.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : - But it is only from your door, Sir.

Mr. Speaker : - You have three entrances and at least one must be open.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : - No Sir. Only your  door was open.

Mr. Speaker : - I am very very sorry that the doors to the Chamber are closed, but I know very well that at one is open. Perhaps you enter from the wrong door.

(Laughter

Shri Humphrey Hadem : - Excuse me Sir. It is really that we want your help 

Mr. Speaker : - My duty is to protect the rights of the Members and to see that they can enter the Chamber in time. But of course, if the doors were closed they were perhaps due to some defect with the bolts. I will see that from tomorrow such things will not happen.

        But I pass on to the second item in today's list of business, I may inform the House that I have received notice of an adjournment motion through somebody whom I could not recognize. In fact, I would advise the Members that whenever they want to submit adjournment motions they should come and hand over personally to the Speaker. Of course to the Ministers and to the Secretary of the Assembly, they can send through a peon. But I will treat this as a special case in spite of the fact that I had received it through somebody. The adjournment motion that I have received reads as follows :-

To

The Hon'ble Speaker, Meghalaya Legislative Assembly,
The Chief Minister, Government of Meghalaya,
The Secretary, Meghalaya Legislative Assembly.

Subject :     Adjournment motion under Rule 56.

Sirs,

        I beg to give notice of an adjournment motion under Rule 56 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business to discuss the very serious, urgent and recent occurrence at the premises of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly, where hundreds of starving hill people from the border areas are lying in various stages of exhaustion, as a result of the State Government's failure to provide immediate relief to these suffering people. As this is a very serious matter affecting the lives of the certain portion of the population of this State, and particularly as it is also an indication of life to them, I move that the proceedings of the House be adjourned to discuss this urgent matter.

Yours faithfully,

Dated Shillong
The 28th March, 1973.

Signed/Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw.


ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE SPEAKER

        Before I give my ruling on the subject, let me inform the House about the two letters which I received before I received the adjournment motion from Prof. Majaw. Two days back I received a letter in the name of Hermel Swer, L. Majaw - it is very difficult to spell their names - B. Chyne and others addressed to me. The letter runs as follows : -

From :  The People of the Border Areas around Sohra and Shella, 
Camp : Shillong.

To :        

        The Hon'ble Speaker of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly, Shillong - 793 001.

Respected Sir,

        We, on behalf of the thousands of starving people along central borders of Meghalaya, in the constituencies of Sohra and Shella, wish to inform you that, as a result of the manifold sufferings and tragedies facing our people, we have been compelled to invite representatives from the Border Villages to come to Shillong to demand an immediate redress from our sufferings, before starvation and famine overtake our poor people.

        We have therefore decided to march in a silent peaceful procession to the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly, on the morning of the 27th of March, 1973, to meet the Ministers of this Government personally, acquaint them of our miseries and demand aid for our people on an emergency basis. We would therefore humbly request you to allow us to meet the Ministers tomorrow morning at the Assembly premises. There will be hundreds of us, but we are confident that the Minister will not fight shy of meeting us.

               Thank you.

Dated Shillong

Yours faithfully,

The 26th March, 1973.

On behalf of the Border People.

        Then again yesterday, I received another letter, —of course, the letter was addressed to the Chief Minister with a copy to the Speaker, Meghalaya Legislative Assembly, to Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh, M.L.A. and to Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw, M. L. A. That letter runs like this :

Dated Shillong,

The 27th March, 1973.

To :

        The Honourable Chief Minister, Government of Meghalaya, Shillong.

Respected Sir,

        I, on behalf of the people of Border Area, Shella Constituency, beg to state the today we (the people of Border Area of Shella) will appear in a form of a procession, in front of the Meghalaya Assembly, to let the notice of the Government our grievances and that we are now in the eve of death.

        That Sir, I most humbly beg you kindly allow us to march in a procession, in a peaceful way, with the hope your honour will favour our Border people, a your children.

        Thank you.

Yours faithfully,

Signed / Jusfilton Rapthap,

Chief Organiser,

Border Areas, Shella.

        I have read these two letters form the people who had organised a peaceful and silent procession very carefully. I must remind the House that it is a constitutional right of each and every section of the people to organise processions. It is within their rights to demand something in order to redress their grievances. And yesterday they actually came in a peaceful and silent procession and they were received by the Chief Minister. I have learnt for the Chief Minister that he has already explained to them that the Government has been trying to redress the grievances of the people living in the border areas right form the both of the State itself. This question, the suffering of the border people, — is not a new question. It is a long standing question and the Government has not slept over the matter for so long. But what the adjournment motion says here is that it wants to discuss the very serious, urgent and recent occurrence at the premises of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly. Of course, the occurrence is recent ; it took place only yesterday, it is quit recent. But to say that the matter which the people has brought before the Government is urgent, —I disagree with it. What the seriousness of the situation is—the hon. Member has not explained. Since yesterday, I was busy inside the precincts of the House to see that our people are guided in a proper manner, and I have seen that there has been no untoward incident. At no time there was seriousness of the situation here in from of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly. I do agree that their problems are really grave but as I said their problem in not a new problem. It has been a long pending problem which the Government has been trying to solve from time to time and the Chief Minister has assured their leader yesterday to the effect that he will try his level best to see that the Government will find out best ways and means to remove their grievances.


Ruling by the Speaker

        Of course the second thing that you must remember while bringing an adjournment motion is that you should not being any matter concerning the privilege of the House. If at all there is any serious incidents outside the Assembly Hall, an adjournment motion on that score also cannot be allowed because it will affect the sanctity of the House, it will affect the privilege of the House. Rule 56 also forbids an adjournment motion form being moved which affects the privilege of the House. Hence the adjournment motion is disallowed. This question can however be taken up on some other occasion whenever the House thinks fit and a date may be fixed for such discussion.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : - May we be allowed at least to point out .............

Mr. Speaker : - I have already disallowed the adjournment motion but I have not ruled out the possibility of discussing the problem in some other form.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, the only trouble in that problem is that it is a human problem ; the people are starving outside since yesterday. They have not got food since yesterday.

Mr. Speaker : - Prof. Majaw, I think I cannot go into the details. I have already disallowed the adjournment motion and as a matter of fact last night when I came here I found they really and something to eat through the generosity of some of our friend in Shillong. So since I have already disallowed the adjournment motion we will pass on to second item from today's list business, i.e., Demands for Grants. Oh, I am sorry.

THE MEGHALAYA REPEALING BILL, 1973

        The Minister Finance to bet leave to introduce the Meghalaya Repealing Bill,  1973.

Shri S. N. Koch : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, according to Rule 70 (1) "If a motion for leave to introduce a Bill is opposed, the Speaker after permitting, if he thinks fit, a brief explanatory statement from the member who moves and form the member who opposes the motion, may, without further debate, put the question thereon".

Mr. Speaker : - You are quoting a wrong rule. You may oppose the introduction of the Bill but you cannot oppose to beg leave to introduce the Bill.

Shri S. N. Koch : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, what I want to say is that at least before introducing the Bill a Member should get the bill. Because the bill has not been given to us earlier.

Mr. Speaker : - Mr. Koch, the procedure in this House and for that matter all Legislative Assemblies in the country that the bill shall be circulated after introduction r for matter of convenience half an hour earlier the Bill would be placed on the table of each and every Member of the House. That is only a matter of convenience. But if you take the legal side of it the Members shall be entitled to get the Bill only after it has been introduced. So may I ask the Finance Minister to beg leave to introduce the Meghalaya Repealing Bill, 1973.

Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg leave to introduce the Meghalaya  Repealing Bill, 1973.

Mr. Speaker : - Motion moved. Now I put the question before the House. The question is that leave be granted to introduce the Meghalaya Repealing Bill, 1973.

(The motion was carried).

        Now I ask the Minister, Law to introduce the Bill.

Shri B. B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to introduce the Meghalaya Repealing Bill, 1973.

Mr. Speaker : - Motion moved. Now I put the question before the House. The question is that the Meghalaya Repealing Bill, 1973 be introduced.

(The motion was carried).

(The Secretary read out the title of the Bill)


VOTING ON DEMAND FOR GRANTS

Mr. Speaker : - Then let us pass on to item No. 3 of today's list of Business. May I ask the Chief Minister to move Grant No. 56.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir,  on the recommendation of the Governor, I bet to move that an amount of Rs.  36,61,78,600, be granted to the Minister-in-Charge to defray certain charges which will come  in the course of payment  during the year ending the 31st March, 1974 for the administration of the head "50—Public Works etc."

Mr. Speaker : - Motion Moved. I have received three cut motions on the Grants ; the first cut motion comes from Shri Francis K. Mawlot. But since he is absent, the cut motion is demanded to have been withdrawn. The second Cut Motion comes form Shri D. N. Joshi and since he is also absent, the cut motion is deemed to have been withdrawn. The third cut motion is to be moved by Prof. M. N. Majaw. This is a token cut and as token cut it should be very specific.

Prof. M. N. Majaw (Mawhati S. T.) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 1,34,00,000 under Grant No. 56, Major head "50. —Public Works, etc., (excluding Establishment and Tools and Plant), Minor head "B—Repairs", sub-head "2–Communications (a) Ordinary Roads" at page 304 of the budget be reduced by Rs. 100 i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs. 3,61,78,60 do stand reduced by Rs. 100.

Mr. Speaker : - Motion moved. Now you may raise a discussion.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - My intention to move this cut motion, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is to indicate the particular demand that the Public Works Department should take over the road form Naya Bungalow -Umsning Mawrong. Mawrong village is about 12 miles away form Umsning. The road was originally build by the Block, i.e., Bhoi Area Development Block but later on it was taken over by the District Council and a few repair works were made ; some bridges were repaired. But now the road has become a very important one in view of the fat that the village of Mawrong is one of least backward villages in the Bhoi areas. It is also a cultural centre in the Bhoi area under the Mylliem Syiemship, with a population of more than 500.

Mr. Speaker : - It is also a historical place.

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - Now the question is that on the way to Mawrong there are 9 others villages, on the same road, the Umsning Mawrong road and will be later extended to meet the Umsning-Jagi Road leading to Nowgong. But the road Umsning-Mawrong has not been taken over by the Public Works Department, while these nine villages have got one outlet to go to Umsning once in eight days. But there are no bus services, there is no town bus services together with the rest of the Bhoi area, apart of course form the big State buses going to Tura or Gauhati along the Gauhati-Shillong road. In the interior of Bhoi area there are not town buses, there are are only what we called "Mama Jeeps" which are broken-down jeeps, sometimes tried up with ropes, with a piece of wire and sometimes with a string. These were condemned a hundred years ago in other counties. These ram-shackled old crocks sometimes on week-days and on bazar days are running from Shillong to Mawrong or form Mawrong to Nayabungalow or from Nayabungalow to Mawrong, but in Summer, when the roads become almost like paddy fields, it is impossible to use these vehicles or any vehicle at all ; one has to travel on foot. Now by  travelling on foot, the people are able to carry only a small quantity of rice or paddy to sell in the markets because they are not heavy weight lifters who can carry 4 or 5 maunds of rice or paddy to to the bazar, but these people with the distance of 12 miles can carry one or half maund, usually half a maund of rice or paddy, and with this they can buy in exchange very few essential commodities. Whereas if the roads were taken over by the Public Works Department and turned into an all whether road the people will be able to engage the services of these jeeps or of town buses, they will be able to carry more goods to sell in the market, whereby their economy will be developed. Now, the District Council is willing to hand over this road, the District Council since this road is under the District Council. They are prepared to hand over this road provided the Public Works Department is prepared to take it over. So my demand is placed before the Public Works Department and the Government whether they can take over this road and thereby help a large portion of the population in the Mylliem Syiemship in the Bhoi area.

Mr. Speaker : - With the Minister .............

(Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh rose to speak)

Mr. Speaker : - Mr. Dlosing Lyngdoh, I know in your heart of hearts that you want this road. But it is difficult for you think to oppose or to support this cut-motion.

        Will the Minister of the State in-Charge of P.W.D. reply ?

Shri Grohonsing Marak (Minister of State, P. W. D.) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, the present policy, the Government is complete only the existing roads, but this road is already in the 4th Five Year Plan. Therefore within this period, it is not possible on the part of the Government .........................

Mr. Speaker : - During the 4th Five Year Plan or during the Annual Plan ?

Shri Grohonsing Marak (Minister of State, P. W. D.) : - During the  4th Five Year Plan, but I would like to inform the hon. Member form Mawhati that this Umsning-Mawrong road is being included in that draft plan for consideration of the State Planning Advisory Board. I hope that it is concrete information and that the hon. Member will be satisfied.

Mr. Speaker : - I think the hon. Member is also a Member of the State Planning Board.

(voices ; Member of the District Planning Board)

Prof. M. N. Majaw : - I am grateful to the Hon'ble Minister for the information. This is a news to the poor people to the interior, therefore I do not hesitate to withdraw and I withdraw the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : - Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion ? (Voice : Yes).

        The Cut Motion is with leave of the House withdrawn.

        Now I put the question before the House. The question in that an amount of Rs. 3,61,78,60, be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1974 for the administration of the head "50-Public Works, etc." (The motion was carried and demand passed).

        May I ask the Chief Minister to move Grant No. 57.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs. 71,89,300 be granted to the Minister-in-Charge to defray certain charges which will coem in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1974 for the administration of the head "50 —Public Woks, etc.".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. since there is no cut-motion. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs. 71,39,300 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1974 for the administration of the head "50 - Public Works, etc".

 (The motion was carried and demand passed).

        May I ask the Chief Minister to move Grant No. 24.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I bet to move that an amount of Rs. 3,54,89,000 be granted to the Minister-in-Charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1974, for the administration of the head "28 —Education".

Mr. Speaker : - Motion moved. I have received 5 cut motions. May I ask Mr. D. N. Joshi to move his cut motion ?

Shri D. N. Joshi (Shillong Cantonment) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 8,54,89,000 under Grant No. 24, Major Head "28 —Education" at page 120 of the Budget be reduced to Rs. 100, i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs. 3,54,89,000 do stand reduced to Rs. 100.

Mr. Speaker : - Motion moved. Now you can arise a general discussion on public grievances regarding service conditions of teachers, non-availability of grants to educational institutions in time and also reorientation of educational structure.

Shri D. N. Joshi : - It is a well known fact that the well being of the society and the standard of development of the society and State depends mostly on the standard of education of the society and the number of people who are educated in the society. Here Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the Chief Minister has committed to make our State free from disease and make it full of educated persons, I feel that the State should embark on schemes that would go towards educating the people in a massive way and that can only be achieved if we get sufficient number of teachers I mean teachers who are really worth the name. Now as things are, it is hardly possible for people who are really fit to be teachers to enter the job since there is no condition created for them to join this teaching job, as those who pass out form the University, those who have come out very successful in first place, do not get any attraction of allurement to join this particular profession. People say that this is an honourable profession but it is not lucrative. So we have to see that proper facilities and scopes are created for  absorption of first class students form the University to fill up the jobs of teachers so that our problem of making Meghalaya an ideal and educated State is fulfilled. Now let me take the question of the Pay Committee Report to be prepared by the Assam Government. There in the Hills of our State, the living index differs from that of the plains area, therefore we should not depend only on the recommendation of the Pay Committee made by the Government of Assam, we should have our own policy and our own pay structure that will be consistent with the position and dignity of the posts of teachers. So I would like to request and remind the Government that the provision made so far in the budget is not adequate for the fulfillment of this noble objective. A teacher is supposed to be the leader of the Society, he is a leader not only in the schools or colleges but he is a leader outside the institutions also. So due place and proper honour and dignity should be given and attributed to them which uptil now is lacking form the said of the Government. On the Teacher's Day, the 5th September of each year there is a scheme to observe teachers day thorough the teachers are subjected to move about from door to door to collect funds which is derogatory to the dignity of the teachers. In the schools and colleges, we find that the service condition of the teachers is not upto the mark. In the schools which are not run by the Government, the teachers do not get any pension benefits although some States in India have embarked upon schemes to the Government Servants. So these things must be looked into and steps must be taken so that the service condition of the teachers, both in the Government and Aided institutions, come up  to the mark and gradually, the teachers get facilities more than Class I Gazetted Officers of the Government. Then and then only we can expect to get good education for our children. If a teacher is not satisfied, if his needs are not fulfilled, then, he cannot fully concentrate himself towards imparting proper education to our children. A teacher is the backbone of the Society, he is a builder of the nation. Therefore, proper attention must be given towards his well-being and upkeep of his honour and dignity. We find in educational institution, specially those which are not run by Government but which are Aided, grants-in-aid do not reach the authority concerned of the schools and colleges in time. At the fag end of the year, just now, we find a Secretary of the School and the Headmaster running to the Treasury and the Banks to draw their grants for the whole year. It is very deplorable. How can we expect our teachers to do justice to the educational upliftment of our nation if their belly is empty throughout the whole year. So I would suggest, through you Sir, that adhoc grants should be given in the very beginning of the year so that they may go on and continue with the payment of the teachers thereby do not suffer. That can be done and if some adjustment is to be made that can be done by the Department concerned on the basis of last year's requirement. We can give a lump sum grant to the deserving schools. As things are prevailing now, people coming out of the education institutions with their certificates in their hands go round and cry for jobs and that also for a white collar job. It has become a problem of the day that people coming out form the University do not go in for any other jobs but only for a white collar job. Education should be reoriented in such a way that after coming out of the educational intuitions they should become self-reliantly and that they are not to depend either on the Government or anybody else to find a job for their livelihood. They should try to find their own way out and they should be able to become good citizens of the State and actual assets of the State and not a liability. But those who want that the Government should come forward and absorb them in the Government Service only are really a liability devoid of self-reliance. I want that a Commission should be set up to evolve a new structure of education, find out a new way of education so that we may build up characters, build up people with self reliance who can really become assets of the State and thereby improve the lot of the  State in every way making in a most noble State in India.

(Mr. Speaker in the Chair).

Shri S. N. Koch (Mendiipathar) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to participate in the discussions and I shall be very brief and specific. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, our Primary Education specially in Garo Hills, is now in the hands of the District Council. At the time of the composite State of Assam, there were Basic training facilities for the Non-Garo Teachers in Assam at Jhalukbari and thereafter, it was thereafter, it was shifted to Dudnai but since 1970, the Assam Government has stopped giving seats to the Primary schools teachers coming from Garo Hills as a result of which, there are no training facilities now and in the Educational Budget Scheme, I do not find any such provision that the Government is going to establish one Basic Training Intuition for Garo Hills District. So, I would like to suggest to the Government through you, Sir, that it should look into it because Primary Education is the beginning stage of an Education and unless we can give good and appropriate education at the first stage, we cannot expect good education in the later stage.

Shri D. D. Pugh (Minister of State of State for Education) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am indeed very grateful to the hon. Member who was moved the Cut Motion and in fact I feel flattered to note that he is as interested in education as I am. One of the points raised by the hon. Mover of the Cut Motion concerns with the service conditions for the teachers. I am happy to note that while raising these points the Mover himself has made a statement to the effect as of today, the teachers in the State of Meghalaya are governed by the Service Conditions and by the terms of service prevalent in the State of Assam and he has also suggested that the Government of Meghalaya should consider the need of appointing a Pay Commission to go into the difficulties of the teachers concerned and to consider the possibility of giving a higher scale of pay. Now in reply to this point and also in reply to the suggestion that he has made concerning eradication of ignorance and also improvement of the standard of education in the State only if we can appoint teachers who are talented, who are good and who are trained. In this respect may I remind the hon. Mover of the fact that for quite a number of years, I myself was a humble school teacher and that as an ex-teacher, I have never for a moment forgotten the facts that teachers at recognised, at least lip service is paid to them as being the nation builders. I also agree whole heartedly with the hon. Mover of the cut motion that teachers are the backbone of the society ; they are leaders of their own community and their own society, and in fact, I would like to go a step further and say that I believe with all my heart that good ideal of setting the very best of brains available not only in Meghalaya but in the entire country should be taken to educational service and to do that I agree with the hon. Mover of the Cut Motion that the remuneration and the service conditions should be improved. But I would like the hon. Move of the Cut Motion to kindly go back to the proceedings of this very august House, say about two or three days ago, when several hon. Members including the Finance Minister have drawn our pointed attention to the fact of a big deficit gap that exists in the Budget today. I am now referring to the limited resources of the State and having so reminded the hon. Mover of the Cut Motion I would also request him to relies the need and to believe that the Government is as concerned about the welfare of teachers as he is but the only thing is that our concern is also conditioned by the state of affairs obtaining in the State of Meghalaya. Then I would also like to take this opportunity of bringing to the notice of the hon. Mover of the Cut Motion that during the Celebration of the last Teacher's Day, I myself noticed that there was an increasing genuine interest shown by the people in the observance of the Teacher's Day. This to me is a clear indication that our own people, the man in the street becoming more and more conscious of the importance of the role of teacher's and I have no doubt that in the near further the people throughout the country will realise the importance of a teacher and the duties that he is to perform. Once that day comes, I have no doubt in my mind that not only the State Government of Meghalaya but the Union Government will be in a position of doing something to better the lot of our teachers. The hon. Mover of the Cut Motion while giving notice has also very clearly indicated that it was his desire to raise a discussion on the structure. I have before me a Hand Book that was prepared by the Union Education Ministry, which was taken up for consideration in one of the Education Ministers' Conferences in Delhi. I am mentioning this fact only to draw the pointed attention of the hon. Mover of the Cut Motion that just as he is concerned about the need to change the system of Education so also the Union Education Ministry and also the State Government. In fact if I recollect what I said during the last budget discussion, I have very pointedly stated that we as Government are not at all happy with the existing system of education and therefore, we said that it will be our endeavour to change the system of Education so as to produce young men and young women who would be as in the word of the hon. Mover the assets to the society. Of course I said last time that we should produce youngmen and women who would be better citizens and people who can stand on their own feet that their own legs. Now as the House shows very well we have had the opportunity of introducing the Meghalaya Board of School Education Bill 1973. I believe that passage of this Bill will be the first step towards reorientation of the Educational system in our State. It has also been suggested by the hon. Mover of the Cut Motion that the Education Commission should be appointed to go into the question of the system of Education. In this regard, I would only like to remind the hon. Member that such a Board has been constituted last year. Unfortunately the Board has not able to function as expeditiously as we have hoped and therefore the Government is now considering the desirability and the need to reconstitute the Education Commission so that we may get the results more expeditiously. Mention also has been made about the delay in the sanction and release of grants of the various institutions. On this point also I would very clearly and definitely state that we have done much better this year than the previous year. It is a fact, I must admit, that especially during the first quarter of this financial year there was some delay. The reason is that the regular budget had not been passed. We have constituted a Board but the delay was due to annual sanction and release of grants, as I have also stated in reply to one of the questions during this Session itself. The Government really helps the schools and colleges but what I myself see was that they do not submit the utilisation certificate in time and sometimes when they do submit the certificates, the certificates are not in order therefore, I would say that while we are grateful to the mover of the Cut Motion for having brought this fact to the notice of the Government we would also like to make him realise that we are doing everything we can in our part to expedite matters in this regard also.

        Then the hon. Members from Mendipathar by way of supporting the Cut Motion has suggested that additional training centres be created especially in this District. I would like to remind him that the Government had decided in principle to set up an additional training centre which will be located in Garo Hills. One in this District and one of the two training Centres will impart training to the teachers whose mother tongue is Garo. So I would, therefore, like to say that the Government is fully seized of the matter, and with these clarifications I fully hope it will satisfy both the hon. Mover as well as those Members who are supporting it. So I would request the Mover to withdraw his Cut Motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Now after the reply give by the Minister-in-Charge of Education may I have the opinion of the hon. Mover to withdraw his Cut Motion ?

Shri D. N. Joshi : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in view of the explanation given by the hon. Minister of Education and in view of the assurances given by him in the implementation of these assurance I withdrawn my Cut Motion but I would like to point out one particular point. (Laughter).

Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on a point of order. The hon. Member has already withdrawn the Cut Motion but now he wants to argue his point.

Shri D. N. Joshi : - Alright I resume my seat.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the Cut Motion ? (voices – Yes) the Cut Motion is with leave of the House withdrawn.

Shri H. Hadem (Mynso Raliang S. T.) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, since you have give me a signal I think it is my Cut Motion.

        Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I bet to move that the total provision of Rs. 3,54,89,000 under Grant No. 24, Major head "28 –Education", at page 120 of the Budget, be reduced to Rs. 100 i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs. 3,54,89,000 do stand reduced to Rs. 100. Sir, I want here to raise the discussion on the policy of the Government to provide hostels for the girl students regarding in the Higher Multipurpose School in Jowai.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Motion moved. Now you can raise a discussion.

*Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I promise to be short because this is after all an old story which has been told last year during the budget session Sir, it seems that it has been raised during the general discussion on the budget, and was a declared policy of the Government not only this year but last year also that the Government is determined to fight against the three evils, poverty, illiteracy and disease. Now we are facing difficulties through we are trying to accept the Government policy, to follow along with the Government in fighting against ignorance in the Jaintia Hills. We are having only one Government High School which is a combined School of both boys and girls students. Sir, it has been a long experience that while passing though one evil, i.e., ignorance, we are now facing another grater evil, and that is, we have made promise now and again by the outgoing Government and even last year by our present Government that they will taken keen interest for consideration of hostels for the girls reading there in the Government Higher and Multipurpose purpose School at Jowai, but from one time to another reasons after reasons have been given for the delay in construction of the hostels. So, Sir, we have experienced that this will be more dangerous than being ignorant in one way to see that our daughters, sisters and nices from the interiors while taking them there in Jowai for education have no place to stay. Sir, we have to put them and entrust them with some benevolent inhabitants of Jowai and not only that, Sir, if we are to hire a special building, no one will look after them. Moreover, if we are to depend on the mercy of some hostels run by private missions there, they have to face many difficulties and besides paying hostel fees, they have also to work like malis and sometimes like jamadars also. Sir, this is very sad a very very sad story and this is the position of our education there in the Jaintia Hills. Our Hon'ble Minister has just now said that lip service has been given to the teachers upto this time and it seems that lip promises also have always been given on the floor of this House for the betterment of the students regarding in towns who are coming from the interior. So, Sir, as I have already told you an old story, it is only reminder if not an old song sung last year and to be sung again today. So, I would request the Government through you, Sir to take immediate steps for the implementation of this long-pending scheme and at the same times they may also bring to your notice that nothing has been done by the Government as not even temporary boarding arrangement has been made by the Government up till now. Sir, while the daughters, the sisters and nieces are going alone for higher education in the Government Higher and Multipurpose School, sometimes when the parents go there, they find that instead of one they have to take back two or three. (Laughter). So, this is a very sad news. I think you have understood it clearly that instead of one you have to take two or three and not only that she will not be only a student, but a mother. So, this is a very sad instance and we would, therefore, request the Government that if at least the Government cannot complete  the construction of the hotel within this financial year, the some temporary arrangement any be made so that their fate will be better in the future. These are the cases regarding the construction. You have heard about the construction in the year Session and the failure of the Government to man with sufficient staff. But how long can we continue with such information and we are annoy hoping the Government will look at the fate of our people and we also hope that the school buildings, such as the one promised last year at Shangpung, and also other buildings will be constructed. For this one particularly, that promise must be fulfilled if the Government is really determined to fight illiteracy, ignorance of whatever we may call it. I hope the Government, will now consider the case seriously, and for the Multipurpose School at least some steps should be taken to accommodate the students who are coming from the interior to have a better education keeping in view their health also. With these few words, Sir, I resume my seat.

Shri F. K. Mawlot (Nongstoin S. T.) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I have cut motion in this subject, I think it will not be necessary for me to move it again. So, I will support the mover. What I actually want to bring to the notice of the Government is the suffering of the officers who are in charge of Education. Other officers, say, the Development Officers, Veterinary Doctors or others are provided with jeeps where their areas are very small in comparison with the area of the Deputy Inspector of Schools.

Shri D. D. Pugh (Minister of State for Education) ; - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on a point of order. The cut motion before the House is very specific and, if I have heard the hon. Members from Nongstoin correctly, what he is saying is not relevant for the cut motion in the House.

Shri F. K. Mawlot : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think when we bring up the grievances of the students we may also see to the grievances of those who are incharge of the students.

(Voices — Only Jowai)

        In that case I do not understand whether I can participate or not. I wish to have your ruling.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - The specific point given here is to raise a discussion in favour of providing a hostel for the students reading in the Higher and Multipurpose School at Jowai.

Shri F. K. Mawlot : - Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir,  in that case allow me to speak.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - You should confine only to the points which are given here.

Shri F. K. Mawlot : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in that case I will just support the mover of the cut motion. At least it is my humble request that the Government should not from now on make lips promises. As the hon. Member has already mentioned that since a long time back our students are reading in the Jowai Multipurpose School and that their was nobody to supervise or take care of them and, a a result, he said, the parents, by the end of the year used to come to Jowai to fetch their daughters, sons, whom they have sent to school but they have to take three or two instead of one. It is really very said incident and I think the Department concerned will seriously take steps to prevent such occurrence and see that such things will not happen in future so that the students who go to schools especially those who have come form the villages will not find any insecurity when they come to another town or another villages which is not known to them. As the hon. Mover has already stated that students form the rural areas have to depend on the neighbours or on some benefactors in the town, I see that this is a cause which has led to such incidents. So my humble request to the Government, to the Department concerned specially to take steps that such incidents will not happen in future.

Shri E. Pohshna (Nongtalang S. T.) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in supporting the Cut motion, I just want to mention one point —that is the financial loss that our girl students are facing in absence of any Girls' Hostel. If I am correct, that the boys and girls who stay in the Hostel get some allowance or scholarships, whereas our girl students staying in the rented houses have got not such facilities. There is no consideration about their case. Therefore, Sir, in supporting the cut motion, I do press upon the Education Minister who will make a beautiful sound here with beautiful promise that while taking care of the boys, at least we must take care of the girls also. 

*Shri Darwin D. Pugh (Minister of State for Education) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, at the outside, I would like to state that the Government under the stewardship of Leader of the House, does not believe in making empty promises and there is no question of marking lip promises. I do not know what it means, but it has been repeated by the two hon. Members twice. We have no intention of making or giving any lip promises. The Government fully realise the difficulties which the girl students studying in the Multipurpose and High School in Jowai must be experiencing as a result of lack of hostel accommodation. I feel very concerned about it and I regret that we have not been able to construct the hostel to date. But as stated by the hon. mover of the cut motion, I shall not give the various reasons for the delay but I shall however, take this opportunity to place before the House the position as it exists today. The plans and estimates which were prepared by the Public Works Department were received by the Education Department some time in the middle of the year 1972 and it has been estimated that the hostel will cost Rs. 4,08,700 and now requires at least administrative approval and I have no reason believe that there will be any difficulty in obtaining it. This year, the Public Works Department has intimated the Education Department that they will be able to spend Rs. 5,000 from this current financial year by taking up advance action of work. This money is supposed to be realised by the Public Works Department to prove that we as the Government are concerned about the welfare of the girl students. I would also like to inform the hon. mover of the cut motion that stop-gap arrangement can be made almost immediately with much lesser delay. We are giving financial assistance to the management of the Bishop Hostel and we host that with the extension made in the Bishop Hostel, some girls studying in the Multipurpose and Higher Secondary Schools can be accommodated. But at the same time I would like to assure the hon. mover of the cut motion that during the financial year we will take active consideration on the possibility of making some temporary arrangement as suggested by him. With these words, I would like to requested the hon. mover to kindly withdraw his cut motion.

*Shri Humphrey Hadem : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in view of the clarification given by the Hon'ble Minister incharge, and in view of his assurance that the work will be done within this year and at the same time that temporary arrangement will be made, and on condition that next year no withdrawal will be made for this particular case, so with the leave of the House I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion ? (Voices - Yes). The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn. Now I request Mr. Khongwir to move his cut motion.

Shri S. D. Khongwir (Mawlai S. T.) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision .......... ............... (interruption) ....................................

*Shri H. E. Pohshna : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have one cut motion. I bet to move that the total provision of Rs. 3,54,89,000 under grant No. 24, Major Head "28 —Education" at page 120 of the Budget be reduced to rupee one.

        Sir, while moving this cut motion my specific point is to discuss about the delay in the construction of the building of the Jowai College.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Motion moved.

Shri H. E. Pohshna : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not want to take much time on this. It is a well-know fact that there has been much delay in the construction of the building of the Jowai Government College. Sir, from the financial point of view, I would like to point out that the more the delay in constructing the building, the more Government will suffer in respect of rent for the Building hired for the College. I would also like to point out Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that if the construction in delayed and if the estimates are made in this year when there is a rise in the price of materials like iron rod, plant and timber etc., I am afraid we have to revise the schemes, we have to get fresh administrative sanction and this will dislocate the completion of the College building Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the other day I learnt that even for the design of this College it as taken about one year for the department concerned to get the design for the College and also it is learnt that it is being done at Gauhati where the cost is very very high indeed.  Therefore, Sir, I believe this will effect the financial position of the department and also it has created much inconvenience to the students of the College because at the moment only Arts can be studied in the Jowai Government College and Science Subject cannot be taken up due to lack of accommodation. I am  not a educationist myself and I do not know what are the difficulties standing in the way of this department to start Science Section at the moment. Because of non-availability of the College building our students had been deprived of the opportunity to learn. With these words, Sir, I would like remind the Hon'ble Education Minister not to give a lip promise but with the sincerity of his heart so that something is done within these few months' time so that the construction of this College is expedited.

Shri D. N. Joshi : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, since the hon. Member, Shri Pohshna has raised a general discussion ........... (Interruption) ................ 

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - He has not raised a general discussion, he mentioned about the  delay in the construction of the College building.

Shri D. D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as the Hon'ble Speaker has given a ruling yesterday on the point, unless they raise a specific point no general discussion is allowed.

Shri D. N. Joshi : - I will specify the point in the form of general discussion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - You should confine only to the point raised by the hon. mover himself.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) : - You cannot bring your own points.

Shri D. N. Joshi : - Yes, I will confine myself to the education system

*Shri Maham Singh (Mawprem) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a policy cut and it should not be confined only to the Jowai College because the cut is a policy cut where the mover gas confined only to the policy cut in regard to the Jowai College. I think he can also take up other matters which relate to the policy of the Government with regard to education in other parts of the State.

Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would refer to the views expressed by the Leader of the Congress Party in this House. As has been already ruled out by the Hon'ble Speaker yesterday that if it would have been a policy cut they would have come forward with a general discussion. But since this is not a policy cut the specific points should be mentioned, and since the hon. Mover has specifically mentioned only one particular building, according to rules, I think he should stick to that.

Shri D. N. Joshi : - On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when it is a policy cut it is reduced to rupee one and here I find it is a policy cut because it is reduced to rupee one. Had it been a token cut on specific purpose, it is reduced to rupees one hundred. But here I find it is reduced to rupee on and therefore, a general discussion can be raised.

*Shri D. D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am to draw the attention of the hon. Member to Rule 45 (1) (a) of Rules of Procedure the Conduct Business of this Assembly wherein it is stated, "The discussion shall be confirmed to the specific point or points mentioned in the notice and it shall be open to members to advocate an alternative policy". Because this provision of the Rule had not been properly adhered to, as a special case, the Hon'ble Speaker yesterday had given ruling that since his office and admitted the cut motion, he would make a compromise and allow the Members to participate in the cut motion if they specified the points.

Shri S. D. Khongwir : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the matter that has been brought by the hon. Mover of the Cut motion is more a matter of grievance than a matter of policy. So far as this Cut Motion is concerned the Mover has moved about the non-construction of the college building at Jowai. So I think it should have come under a token cut and not under a disapproval of Government policy cut.

Shri H. Hadem : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you have already allowed the hon. Mover to moved and it is not a fit case for him at this juncture to raise a general discussion. Moreover, Sir, the hon. Mover has stated clearly it is a policy cut in regard to the delay in the construction of the College Building.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Now, I would request the Minister-in-charge of Education to reply.

*Shri D. D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to being my reply to the Cut motion starting from the tail-end. The hon. Mover of the Cut motion had an opportunity and an occasion to state that Science College could not be started due to lack of accommodation. That is not a fact. No Science College can be started in an empty house. There are a lot of things that require to start the Science College especially for a good Science College and because of these confronting difficulties, Government have not been able to start a Science Collage. Now, I would like to take this opportunity to express my regret once again for the delay in the construction of the Jowai Government College building. I would also like express my agreement with the hon. Mover of the Cut motion when he said that delay in constructing the pucca building and by way of cost of the construction materials. Therefore, because I agree with him on this point, I would like to assure him once more that we will do every thing within our power to expedite the matter concerned with the construction of the College building. With these assurances, I would request the hon. Mover to withdraw his Cut motion.

Shri H. E. Pohshna : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am grateful for the reply of the Minister of the State, Education and at the same time I know that our Government is very serious in expediting this construction this construction and our Chief Minister has even made some instructions this year that some buildings as least will be started, but up till now nothing has been done. So, with this full assurance, I withdraw my Cut motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his Cut Motion.?

(Voices — yes, yes). The Cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn.

        Mr. Khongwir to move the Cut motion.

Shri S. D. Khongwir : - I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 3,54,98,000 under Grant No. 24 - Education (General)" at page 120 of the Budget, be reduced to Re. 1. i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs. 3,54,89,000 do stand reduced to Re. 1.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Motion moved. Now you can raise a discussion.

*Shri S. D. Khongwir : - There has been a general tendency that all cut motions should be more brisk. So I would like to be very brief on this matter. I am sorry to admit that my cut motion is not happily worded. It may mislead the Hon'ble Minister of State. But the only point that I want to bring before the Government is with regard to inadequate financial benefit or pay and allowances to the teachers. We must understand that the teachers play a very vital role in our society and as such, I would request the Government to see and find out ways and means to ameliorate the financial hardships on the part of the teachers especially on the of the teachers of Secondary Schools and Primary Schools as a whole and without forgetting the Professors in the Colleges. On this matter, I would like to request the Government to kindly consider the revision of of their pay scales with regard to the various categories of teachers. The second point is that the teachers should have the benefit of the general Provident Fund and also Winter Allowance. With regard to the other officers and staff serving under the Government, they are not getting the benefit of this Winter Allowance. In so far as teachers are concerned, they are not getting the benefit of this Winter Allowances. So, I would humbly submit and request the Government to kindly consider this and if it is possible to allow them this benefit also. I would also suggest to the Government to arrange, let it be half-annually, or annually some educational to use to all the important places in India, especially of the teachers in the rural areas. With these words, Sir, I resume my seat.

Prof. M. N. Majaw (Mawhati S. T.) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the cut motion moved by the hon. Member from Mawlai on the inadequate financial amelioration given to teachers. As we all know, the teachers are very respected persons who belong to one of the most poorly paid profession in India. Outside this country, they are perhaps some of the best paid persons ; but not in this country due to a variety of reasons and so many factors involved. But for the practical solution of one of their many problems, I would suggest that so far as college teachers and the teachers in high schools are concerned a gratuity scheme may be introduced, where the Provident Fund scheme is working, because these Provident Fund deposits are kept in the savings, deposits in the Post Office. One of the interest, the Government may try arrange gratuity for retiring teachers. Now the teachers do not retire in large numbers every year. There are very very few who retire every year. We are prepared to work out for the benefit of the Government the particular economics of it to show how the scheme can be worked out for giving gratuity to the College teachers and high school teachers out of the interest that accurse in the savings in the Post Offices. With these words, I resume my seat.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the cut motion. Regarding the amelioration to teachers, I would like to bring to the notice of the House through you, Sir, that Government have not paid even the dues of 1969-70 and 1971-72, for five months for the year 1969-70 and the rest for 1970-71. So in this  regard, I would like to remind that the teachers of Lower Primary Schools who are serving under the District Council have not received their dues up till now I think first of all, the District Council pay the dues to teachers after getting the money from the State Government. So, I would request the Government to see to this as early as possible.

*Shri D. D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform the hon. Member for Nongstoin that the State Government has cleared all that is due to the District Council and since he has made a specific mention of the year 1969-70 and five months, this is something that was due from the composite State of Assam. Now before I go to the part of giving assurances, I would like Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, to very briefly state state in a nut-shell that the points raised by the hon. Mover of the cut motion are similar in fact to those raised by the hon. Mover who move cut motion No. 1. I would, therefore, crave your indulgence to suggest that I may not be asked to repeat what I said while replying to the cut motion No. 1 moved by the hon. Member, Shri D. N. Joshi, because I had dwelt the length on the question of terms of service conditions, the question of appointment and so on and so forth. If this is permissible then Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would say I have also made a note of the suggestion, concrete suggestion made by the hon. Member from Mawhati concerning the grant of gratuity to teachers out of interest that accrues from the provident fund deposit. Now no all these three points I would like to give the assurance to the House that the matter will be examined in its entirety and very carefully and if the Department after examination finds that this can be implemented, we will not hesitate to implement it. With these words, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I like to request the hon. Mover to withdraw his motion.

Shri H. S. Lyngdoh (Pariong S. T.) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I have a clarification from the Minister regarding the specific dues which have to be paid to the school teachers under the District Council. About seven hundred teachers have not got their pay for 5 months. In fact it was during the time of the then Assam Government that the grant was due to be paid to District Council for Primary Education. So, Sir, I would like to have a clarification as not whether at the time of determining the assets and liabilities between the Government of Assam and the Government of Meghalaya, these dues to teachers will not be shared and paid by the Assam Government.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - As clearly stated by my colleague, the Minister of State for Education, the Government has already advanced Rs. 10 lakhs to the Khasi Hills District Council. This amount due to the teachers relates to the period when the District Council was to function under State Government of Assam. It was pointed out to the Government of Meghalaya that they have not received the grant for payment of the pay of the primary schools teachers and the Khasi Hills District Council has also come with the request the there are a number of revenues due to the District Council to be paid by the Government of Assam. In the normal course, correspondence for the realisation of these dues should have between the District Council and the then composite then State of Assam.  When the District Council failed to receive the payment of dues including the grant for the teachers, the Government of Meghalaya has agreed to advance Rs. 10 lakhs and also agreed to help the District Council concerned to get the dues cleared from the date of the composite State of Assam. This advance of Rs. 10 lakhs was accorded to the District Council on the condition that the amount will be adjusted at a later stage against the dues. Therefore, it will be clear to the hon. Member that it is now up to the District Council concerned to clear the arrear of the teachers and the Government of Meghalaya has given this Rs. 10 lakhs for their rescue. Therefore, I would like to request the hon. Member to take up the matter with the District Council.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I personally could not understand the clarification made by the Chief Minister as to who will bear this amount i.e., the five month's pay of the teachers fallen due during the year 1969-70. We do not want a lengthy story.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - It is the responsibility of District Council to pay to the teachers and we have released that Rs. 10 lakhs for this purpose.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot : - When was it made available to the District Council ? As far as we know the District Council has not received any amount.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : - Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this matter came up for discussion with the Chief Executive Member of the District Council and the Members-in-charge of Education in my office room. They have agreed to take the amount so released in two instalments. If I remember alright, it was agreed to release in the first instance Rs. 8 lakhs and subsequently 2 lakhs and I have advise them to clear the arrear pay of the teachers and it was also decided that whenever the dues payable to the District Council in respect of revenues will be worked out, this amount which is given as advance t the District Council in respect of revenues will be worked out, this amount which is given as advance to the District Council will be adjusted.

Shri S. D. Khongwir : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as the Hon'ble Minister of State has at least promised to examine and of course the decision will latter on, so only also I will examine what would be the decision of the Government.

(Laughter)

        But now I have decided to withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion ? (Voices – yes, yes). The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn

        Now, Mr. H. S. Lyngdoh to move his cut motion.

Shri H. S. Lyngdoh : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision Rs. 3,54,89,000, under Grant No. 24, Major head "28 –Education" at page 120 of the Budget, be reduced to Rs. 1·00, i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs. 3,54,89,000, do stand reduced to Re. 1·00. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to raise a discussion disapproving the policy o the Government in that they are maintaining educational institution with insufficient inspecting staff and also delaying the construction of certain instructions.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : - Motion moved. Now you can raise a discussion.

Shri H. S. Lyngdoh : - I would like to definite in my discussion regarding disapproving the policy of the Government for the system of Education in the State. Hon. Members who have taken part in the general discussion, have mentioned about the basic education which has now many much deteriorated. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, since the last Budget Session we have discussed on this and the Minister-in-charge of Education had promised before the House to look into the matter. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have at present about 11 or 13 Senior Basic Schools in the State. I am subjected to correction if am mistaken. The Basic Schools, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, are also included in their institution, the Junior Basic School. These basic schools are maintained in them form the Pre-basic upto Grade VIII standard. This basic education, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, has no proper examination, has no proper instruction, has no proper maintenance of buildings and also the strength of the teaching staff. These schools are now being maintained as Government Schools in the State. There are about ten senior basic schools in Khasi Hills including junior and pre-basic and they are located Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the interior of this District where there is no progress at all. But Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the people of those areas having no other way are sending their children to these schools for years and years but there is no promotion and they do not get education according to the age prescribed by Government. So, Sir, because of the negligence of the Government in looking after the Schools, these basic schools are no the verge of deterioration and our children who are supposed to get their education timely have been deprived of this opportunity.

        Another point, Sir, our Government has established one Training Centre for this Basic Education at Sohiong ; they have been trying to construct this building now for the last 6 years and 2 times, the buildings has fallen. Now it seems that after they have not spent lot of money, the buildings are nearly completed. The Government in constructing these institutions constructed in time, this Training Centre could have been opened in time, and the training of teachers also would be done in time. But this delay has deprived the teachers of their training in this intuition. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in this regard, I would suggest to the Government that the policy of maintaining this basic education should be sincere. But it looks as if the Government is not sincere in maintaining then, and if  this Government is not interested in basic education, I would propose that this education be converted into general education. Another policy Sir, regarding the construction of the Government Schools buildings. If I speak in general, these are many schools in the State, Government High Schools and Middle English or primary schools which have not been able to get their schools building constructed by this Government or which have remained pending as the hon. Member had said. Some of the buildings or the institutions were surveyed 3 or 4 years ago and the plans and estimates were submitted to the Government but no sanction was given. I may cite an instance of one of the very old schools in this District, the Pariong Middle English School. Since the time of the Government of Assam, one surveyor after another had been sent for making plans and estimates and these plans and estimates were submitted to the Department I mean to the Public Works Department and also to get the sanction of the schools. This is only one instance, Sir. In fact the Education Department has got a lot of schools to be constructed and to be taken over. Sir, I would propose to the Government that a Building Division under Education be created so that this Division will do its own construction for the benefit of education of our children. Another point Sir, I want to discuss is regarding the maintenance of inspecting staff. In Khasi Hills District, of course, I do not know about Garo Hills, we have got about 7 inspecting staff under the Inspector of Schools, but looking not only after Khasi Hills but also after Jowai and there are only 2 or 3 Assistance Inspectors of there under the Inspector of Schools in Khasi Hills but those posts are vacant. Under the Deputy Inspectors Schools during the Assam Government there was one Assistant Deputy Inspector of Schools and five Sub-Inspectors of Schools while there were only few schools-say, about 10 per cent of schools now now have been increased in the State. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, now it has been reduced to 3 Sub-Inspectors only. In the then Assam Government there was one Social Education Officer, one Assistant Inspector to assist the Inspector of Schools in Khasi Jaintia Hills but in spite of these, the Government of Assam still was suffering from shortage of inspecting staff, our schools cannot be inspected, education cannot be properly imparted. Now that the schools are increasing and the Department itself is expending, but there is a vacant post of Assistant Inspector of Schools, there is vacant post of Assistant Inspectors of Schools and also the post of Social Education Officer and soon also the post of the Sub-inspector of Schools will be vacant. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to talk about inspection for the whole year, at last 1972-73, there was no inspection at all. The Inspector of Schools now has so much work like the Chief of the N. C. C., the clerk of Social Education, the Inspectress of Schools, the Accountant in the office and the Head Assistant in office. There is no inspection at all to our schools. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to propose to the Government to look after Education which is the most important subject and maintain a very strong and efficient inspecting staff in order to do away with illiteracy and I would also suggest to the Government, through you Sir, that the vacant posts of Assistant Inspector and Assistant Inspectress and Sub-Inspectors of Schools should immediately be filled up so that our education will not deteriorate in the State. So with these few words, I resume my seat.

Shri Edward Kurbah : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to take part in the discussion and I support the cut motion moved by my hon. Friend. I would like to get clear clarification from the Minister incharge of Education regarding the Basic Training Centre at Sohiong which has been mentioned by the Move of the cut motion. I have passed many times through that road and whenever I passed, I went to see whether the building has been completed or not. But for the information of the House, I would like to say that this building now is already completed. Therefore, the clarification and I would like to know is when will this Basic Training Centre be functioning ? With these words, I resume my seat.

*Shri D. D. Pugh (Minister of State in-charge of Education) : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it appears that the most basic points on which the hon. Mover has moved the Cut Motion is his opposition to the existence of two different systems of education. Now as the hon. Mover no doubt knows every well, the basic system of education was introduced in this country of ours on an experimental basis and ever since the basic system of education was introduced, the question of its suitability, its efficacy and its success has formed a matter of controversy and the educationists in the country have not been also to resolve this controversy to date. I would also like to take this opportunity of informing the hon. Mover of the Cut Motion that here is a problem which has to be studied very very carefully before a definite discussion is arrived at. Our Government is seized of the problem and we are hopeful that in the near future we will be able to take a definite decision in this regard and until and unless a decision is taken, whether we like it or not, both the systems of education will continue not only in Meghalaya but throughout the country, that means basic and non-basic. But as I said a moment ago, we are fully seized of this problem and it is hoped that after taking all aspects of the problem in to consideration, the Government will be able to come to a definite decision. The hon.  Mover of the Cut Motion has very correctly pointed out the fact that in order to ensure that our schools are run and managed properly, it is absolutely essential to strengthen the inspecting staff. While making this statement, however, the hon. Mover of the Cut Motion had occasion to say that there are only two or three Sub-Inspector of Schools under the D.I. Now Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is not correct. The correct position is that there are 11 points of Sub- Inspectors of Schools in Khasi and Jaintia Hills and 10 posts are at the moment filled up and now there is only one existing vacancy. In any case, after having made that correction, I would also like to state that steps are being taken to fill up all the sanctioned posts which are lying vacant, whether it is the post of Assistant Inspector of Schools, Additional D. I. of Schools, or whatever post it may be. The suggestion made by the hon. Mover concerning the need to create a Special Division in the Education Department is something which I personally consider very  worthwhile. In fact, I may take the House into confidence and tell the hon. Member that 35 or 40 minutes ago I was whispering the same suggestion to my colleague, the Minister of State of P. W. D. I personally think that this suggestion is worth considering and therefore, I assure the hon. Member that this suggestion will be very carefully examined and considered.

        The hon. Member, Mr. Kurbah while supporting the Cut Motion has asked for the date on which the Training Centre would be shifted to Sohiong. I regret I am not in a position to make definite statement on this Question. Now, I also note that the hon. Mover of the Cut Motion was expressed his unhappiness about the amount of time that was taken constructing the building of Basic Training Centre at Sohiong. I am as unhappy as he is on that account. Mr. H. S. Lyngdoh has also suggested that Government should do away with the Basic Training Centres and amalgamate all of of them as general schools. This suggestion that he has made, I think, has been covered by my reply to others of the discussion. This is not something which we can decide in a hurry scurry-to decide either to do away with the Basic School or to do away with the Basic system of education is a very serious matter. It requires a very careful consideration and that, as I had said earlier, is being done at the present moment and we hope we will be able to arrive at a decision in future. With these few clarifications given I request the hon. Mover to kindly withdraw his Cut Motion.

Shri H. S. Lyngdoh : - Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want more clarification through I have been nearly convinced by the clarifications given by the Minister-in-charge of Education. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have clearly suggested that if the Government  is not sincere to maintain the Basic Schools it would be better to do away with the Basic system of education. What about the maintenance of these existing Basic Schools which have become in fact the stumbling block to the progress of education in our State and prevented our school children to get their education during their school age. To cite an example Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Pariong M. E. School which has been taken over by the Government but the Government could not do anything up till now. 

        The school building has not yet been erected and at present the school is being housed in (At this stage, the Speaker occupied the Chair) the building of the Lower Primary School of the Village.

Shri D. D. Pugh (Minister of State incharge of Education) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Hon. Mover of the Cut Motion has said that if the Government is not sincere in maintaining the Basic system of education, then the best thing would be to do away with Basic Schools. I think I had made it very clear that the continence of the of the present system of education is not depended on the sincerity of A or C ; the matter has to be decided on the basis of merit. I have already said that the very question of suitability, efficacy and success of the Basic system of education has been a matter of controversy for so many years and therefore, it would not be right and proper for this House to accept a motion that because I am not sincere in allowing the Basic system of education to continue, therefore, we accept his suggestion to do away with the Basic Schools. This is a matter of choosing a system of education that we consider and believe to be the most suited to our needs and that question will be gone through by the Government, by the Education Commission and the allied bodies and though the hon. Mover has said many words, I have the impression that he has an impression that step-motherly treatment is being meted out to these basic school (Interruption) ................................

Shri H. S. Lyngdoh : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, no promotion, no examination and no inspection.

Shri D. D. Pugh (Minister of State incharge of Education) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is not a fact. If there have been any lapses, it is not because of any intention on the part of the Government to meet out step motherly treatment to this class of schools or that class schools. Therefore, if the hon. Member who has moved the Cut Motion would bring to my notice or to D. P. I. and the Secretary of the Department specific instances to delay in constructing the schools buildings or whatever it is, those matters will be looked into. But to generalise and think or have the impression of step motherly treatment being meted out by the Government to any special class of schools, that is not a fact. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, through you, I would request the Mover to kindly withdraw this cut motion.

Shri H. S. Lyngdoh : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the Minister-in-charge of Education has missed the point. I was asking for clarification regarding maintenance of the Basic Schools. There is no proper examination, no proper inspection and nothing of the sort and there is nobody to look after their affairs. Therefore, we want to know whether the Government is not yet ready to do away with basic education or if somebody is not interested with the basic system of education at least something should be done to these schools. Till the Government decides to do away or expand the basic system of education, the Government for the time being should look after them otherwise our school children will not derive education in their school-age and there will be no progress of education in our State.

Mr. Speaker : - To bring the grievances of the points studying in the Basic Schools should have been discussed in the token cut and not in the policy cut. But as regards the policy whether basic education must be retained in the State or not that is a pertinent question which has been raised in the House. If you disapproved the policy, you can insist on voting and if you accept the explanation of the Minister, you may withdraw your cut motion.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, in fact, I am not satisfied with the reply of the Minister but since the Minister is confusing and is tanking to blame the whole country, the Central Government ................

Mr. Speaker : - Mr. Lyngdoh, I understand your point and according to the Minister is confusing the issue. If you do not want to withdraw, then I have no other alternative but to put your cut motion to vote, which prerogative I do like to exercise.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : - Although now I withdraw the Cut Motion.

(Voices – Thank you)

Mr. Speaker : - Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the Cut Motion ? (Voice – yes, yes). The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn.

        Now, I put the main question to the House. The question is that an amount of Rs. 3,54,89,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come to in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1974 for the administration of the head "28 –Education".

(The motion was carried and demand passed)

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move that an amount of Rs. 1,45,18,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 1st March, 1974 for the administration of the head "31 –Agriculture".

Mr. Speaker : - Motion moved. I have received as many as four Cut Motions under this Grant. The first Cut Motion is to be moved by Mr. William Cecil Marak. But he is absent. So the cut motion is deemed to have been withdrawn. The second Cut Motion is to be moved by Mr. F. K. Mawlot.

Shri F. K. Mawlot : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 1,45,18,000, under Grant No. 29, Major head "31 –Agriculture" at page 178 of the Budget, be reduced to Re. 1 i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs. 1,45,18,000, do stand reduced to Re. 1.

Mr. Speaker : - Cut Motion moved and now you can raise a general discussion especially on the policy regarding the distribution of fertilizer and the development of the tillers. 

*Shri F. K. Mawlot : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to point out to the Government with regard to the distribution of fertilizer to the farmers. It has been the practice for many years that distribution of fertilizers was being done by the Department through the Block Development Officers.

Mr. Speaker : - Mr. Mawlot you are talking about the past.

*Shri F. K. Mawlot : - Alright I will come to the point. The Government especially in the last Session have appointed dealers in different areas who would supply fertilizers to the farmers. But in spite of that, the actual position is that the farmers did not receive fertilizer in time and even when they received it in time the amount is very little and at the same time, the price fixed is very high which our poor farmers could not afford to pay. So in this regard, Sir, I would like to suggest to the Government through you, Sir, that the Department concerned should take up the supply of fertilizer, whether through the Block Development Officer or by the Department itself so that our poor farmers in the villages can be derive the benefit.

        Secondly I come to power tillers. It seems that in the western parts of Khasi Hills, the Government have not set any power tillers to help the farmers to improve cultivation. Tillers or bulldozers are not made available to the farmers and because of the fact that they cannot afford to buy such costly machineries they are not in a position to improve their cultivation or expand their paddy fields. Well Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would suggest to the Government through you, that these power tillers be kept in particular places in different parts of the country so that the farmers can go to such places.

Mr. Speaker : - In different parts of the State of different parts of the country ?

Shri F. K. Mawlot : - In different parts of the State so that the poor farmers can come at any time to the officer-in-charge and get the bulldozers or power tillers whenever they need. So with these few words Sir, I move the cut motion.

Shri Winstone Syiemiong (Nongspung S. T.) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the cut motion moved by the hon. member from Nongstoin about the distribution of fertilizer. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to say something that according to what I have seen last year or rather last reason I saw that the policy of the Government as far as the distribution of fertilizer is concerned has completely failed. I do not know whether the Minister concerned is aware of that or not but I am quite sure that the Directorate of Agriculture is quite aware of that.

Mr. Speaker : - Actually while discussing you should try not to bring in the name of the officer or you cannot blame the Government of the name of the officer concerned here because whatever the officer does it is the responsibility of the Government.

Shri Winstone Syiemiong  : - I have been referring to the Directorate concerned that it is aware actually of the problem of distribution of fertilizer. I understand fertilizers is very important in these days to develop agriculture but if the experience we had last year or last season in any indication, I am afraid most of the farmers especially those who use ammonium sulphate I believe, will think twice before they use it again, because, last year the Department concerned has appointed a number of licences to distribute fertilizer in different localities and the villages but the problem is that these people, especially in my constituency and the adjoining constituencies, came to me and complained that in spite of their having licences they said they could not get even a single quota of fertilizer. I remember the other day when I along with the hon. Members from Sohiong and Mylliem have to go all around Shillong to meet the Officers. Unfortunately on that day we could not meet anyone of the high Officials.

Mr. Speaker : - But Mr. Syiemiong, although you are supporting the cut motion raised by Mr. Mawlot yet you are opposing his views. Although Mr. Mawlot has suggested an alternative policy that the Government should take up departmentally the distribution of fertilizers instead you are trying to prove the failure of the Government Department in this regard.

Shri Winstone Syiemiong  : - No, Sir, I thought I was saying the same thing. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, unless the Government does something in respect of its policy to provide some more fertilizers, I am afraid, the same experience will be there and it will be worse because the people have threatened that something will be worse will be done my them if Government fails to do anything. It was the Government that taught them how to use fertilizers and it is they who make it difficult to get fertilizers.

Shri Maham Singh : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise also to support the cut motion. With regard to distribution of fertilizer, Mr. Speaker, Sir, whatever might have been said, I want to bring to the notice of the House that the regard to the distribution of fertilizer there has always been delay in giving fertilizer in time. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is only a few days ago that fertilizer for potato cultivation was distributed to the cultivators. Now, one is Khasi Hills District, there are two types of potatoes that are planted one is the potato planted in the paddy fields. This is planted during the first week of February and the other type which is planted in the upland, is planted during the last week of February. This time, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the fertilizer that had been distributed to the cultivators was distributed only in the lasts week of February. As a result, the time for planting of the early crop was already over when distribution was made and it was distributed also quite late for the crop that is planted in the last week of February or the first week of March. Again, Mr. Speaker, Sir, with regard to the distribution of fertilizer there are a number of dealers appointed in every district. Equal opportunities should be given to all the dealers to sell their fertilizer but it is only yesterday that I came to know that so fare as the Jowai District is concerned there are five dealers. One is Ka Hilsida Pawa, then U Lomswel Iongwar another is U Lui Lweis Kamar and the other is the Shillong Co-operative Marketing Society. The fifth is Pati Leetan. All these are dealers in fertilizer to whom licences had been given and there are three suppliers for the whole district. One is Ka Prosilla Kharkongor. The others are : M/s. Rallis India Ltd. and M/s. Assam Bone Meal which has got a factory at Burnihat.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, he is referring to bone meal and not to chemical fertilizers of course. 

Mr. Speaker : - Yes, he is is referring to bone meal and not to chemical fertilizers.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) : - But bone meal is not included in this chemical fertilizer.

Shri Maham Singh : - According to my understanding bone meal is is also a fertilizer. Now we come to the second fertilizer, i.e., bone meal which is required for paddy cultivation. Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are three suppliers and so far as the Jowai District is concerned there are five distributors. Licences had been issued to all the five for distributing bonemeal in the Jowai District. Mr. Speaker, Sir, yesterday there was a complaint. So far as Jowai District is concerned it is first said that the bone meal must be taken only from M/s. Rallis India Ltd because the cultivators always prefer the bonemeal of this company and from no one else. Whatever may be the case we agree that the bone meal for that district may be be supplied only by M/s. Rallis India Ltd. But then another complaint is there, that is that in the distribution of this bonemeal favouritism has been shown. I do not know, by the officers or by the Government. They say that all the cultivators were asked to take bonemeal only from the Shillong Co-operative Marketing Society which distributes this products in the Jowai District through one U Noli Tariang, who is apparently only an agent of the Shillong Co-operative Marketing Society. Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, although other distributors have got stock of this bone meal, no requisition slip is given by the Sub divisional Officer to take the bone meal from these other distributors. One of distributors had complained that the Subdivisional Officer-in-charge of Agriculture of course, I have got verified because this information came to me only last evening and I have not been able to meet and information came to me only last evening  and I have not been able to meet and inform also the authorities in this connection. But I was told by the distributors that when the cultivators went to the Subdivisional Officer-in-charge of Agriculture for getting requisition slips for the bone meal from him, the Subdivisional Officers reply was that there was a definite instruction from the Minister that the bone meal should be taken only form U Noli Tariang who is an agent of Shillong Co-operative Marketing Society. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, when a number of dealers have been appointed for a particular district, I want actually request the Government, through you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that justice should be done to all the Distributors. All should be given a fair chance to get regular supply of bone meal and also to give them the opportunity for supplying the same to the cultivators and that no favour should be given only to one distributor. With these few words, Sir, I support the cut motion.

*Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think I will start from the end. So, let me tell the House as regards the problem of bone meal for the current year. We called for quotations sometimes in the month of July of August as to who can supply bone meal to our Department and we got quotations from 3 dealers, i.e., M/s. Rallis India Ltd., the Assam bone meal and then the Mylliem Industry. So, we called them to a meeting and then were extended the time, from time to time, because we want to get more quotations. So, when we considered he quotations, we had to accept any one who could bid a higher rate because there was no more competition from the public. We were asking for their capacity, how much each firm can supply. The Rallis India Ltd. said they can supply one thousand tonnes, the Assam Bonemeal said they can supply 8 hundred tonnes and Mylliem Industry said they can supply two hundred tonnes. We also wanted to know from them their local distributors who will distribute this bone meal and whom they will appoint and the Rallis India Ltd. have named U Noli Tariang of Shillong Marketing, and then the Assam Bone meal have named the Assam Hills Development Corporation and then the Mylliem Industry said they said they will distribute themselves. So on that basis an an agreement was arrived at and signed between the Agriculture Department and the suppliers. Now I cannot accept any other bone meal to come to the Government unless we can satisfy ourselves on the basis of this agreement we have arrived at with these three firms that bone meal is not controlled and not licensed. Therefore, we take this steps just to help them to procure the bone meal and then we have arrived at an agreement on subsidy with the dealers. So if other dealers have got bone meal they can sell it in the market if they like and we cannot from our side, guarantee them anything unless stock arranged by us is disposed of. That is the position as it is and as far as fertilizer is concerned, there was a suggestion from the hon. Member that why not the Government or the Department ................

Shri Maham Singh : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, 5 dealers were appointed by the Government. We consider it to be very unjust to be give the monopoly only to one dealers so far as one District is concerned.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) : - It has already been agreed that Government will accept the bonemeal from nobody else expect those three who came forward to submit quotation.

Shri Maham Singh : - I say 5 distributors and to give monopoly only to one distributor is very unfair and unjust.

Mr. Speaker : - Now we have committed the same mistake. When discussing the policy of the Government we are going into the details which should have been avoided. The policy of the Government is that whenever they want to appoint the dealers they invite quotations and whether it is wrong with that policy or not. But you are pleading for the distribution or allotment. I think you mean allotment of this bone meal and these 5 dealers should be allotted equally or more or less equitably. I think that is want you mean to say.

*Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, these 5 dealers are holding licenses for distribution of the chemical fertilizer but not bone meal because there is no license issued for distribution of bone meal, but only in chemical fertilizers licenses are issued to the dealers. Therefore, the question of these 5 dealers does not arise as far as bonemeal is concerned and as far as fertilisers is concerned Mr. Speaker, Sir, there was a proposal from the hon. Mover of the cut motion when he said that whether the Government or the Department concerned can take over this matter earlier because there was no fertilizer control order at that time and that it can be done now. Since this fertilizer control order is in force, we have to appoint licensed dealers and according to that order we have appointed dealers. Therefore, I do not know  whether the Government can be a licensed dealer or not. That question has to be looked into and studied properly. But his suggestion of course depends on whether Government or the Department can be a licensed dealer or whether the department has got enough finance to deal with this business. That has to be looked into. We cannot say outright as to whether the Government can do it or not. But in view of the shortage of fertilizer with the Government I should be frank to the House that the Government cannot help it and let me tell the House, through you, Sir, that I would like to compare the years 1971-72 with 1972-73 like this. In 1971-72 we have procured fertilizer - 4,867 tonnes and in 1972-73 we have procured fertilizer - 9,917 tonnes. That means more than double the quantity of fertilizer procured in previous years.

        Now about distribution Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is correct to say that the Government has only three whole-sale dealers in fertilizers namely, the Assam Agro Industries, the Hills Development Corporation and the Shillong Co-operative Marketing Society. These three are the whole sale dealers and apart from these whole-sale dealers there are retailers totaling about 480 and the quota of fertilizer is allotted by the Government of India on a monthly basis. So when we receive quota for each month we allot the quota to the whole-sellers but we never allot the quota to the retailers and these retailers will get their quota from the whole-sale dealers. It depends upon the arrangement between the whole-sale dealers and the cultivators who are around Shillong can also directly buy even from the whole-sale dealers. It is a fact, as stated by the hon. Mover, that there are 480 retailers in the whole of the State. Now regarding mal-practices in distribution of fertilizers, I would like to request the hon. Member to bring to our notice so that we can take action against those licensed dealers by canceling their licenses straight- away if the complaint is found genuine. Then the hon. Mover said that the farmers did not receive fertilizers in time. I will tell you Mr. Speaker, Sir, that he fertilizer allotment was made only in few months and not for the whole year. I challenge the hon. Member who supports the cut motion when he said that the policy of the Government in so far as fertilizer distribution is concerned has failed totally. Well Mr. Speaker, Sir, I must be frank in telling the Members that while we distribute the fertilizers we only allot the quota to the wholesalers and the wholesaler and retailers have got every power to distribute the fertilizers.

Mr. Speaker : - May I draw the attention of the Minister ? I think it is useless to devote your attention to this matter of details. Actually it is more pertinent to reply to the point raised by Mr. Mawlot as to whether the Government is ready to take over the distribution of fertilizers and to dwell upon his alternative policy that he has suggested.

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister of Agriculture) : - Well Mr. Speaker, Sir, because of shortage of finances, we are not in a position to take to take over the distribution of fertilizers and if this House will approve to sponsor necessary finances, we be really to take over.

Mr. Speaker : - It is not the House to finance, it is the Minister concerned to make a demand.

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) : - But the hon. Mover is very specific on this point and I say we will study this position and I cannot say that we will do it right away. We will look into this mater expeditiously and since this a matter which is very complicated we cannot come to a decision immediately. At the moment, I will not any commitment.

Mr. Speaker : - You need not reply to the details of this cut motion.

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) : - I have made it clear to the hon. Member about the policy of the Government and as I  said, we are ready to look into and study the problem accordingly. With these assurances, I would request the hon. Mover to kindly withdraw his cut motion.

Shri F. K. Mawlot : - Well, Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the basis of the explanation and kind assurances given by the Minister of Agriculture that he will examine the  matter in due course we have to be vigilant whether Government will do not fall at the hands of the Black marketers. With these words, Sir, I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : - Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the Cut Motion ?

(Voices – Yes, Yes)

        The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn.

Mr. Speaker : - Now, Mr. Khongwir to move cut motion No. 3.

Shri S. D. Khongwir : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, due to shortage of time, I will not move my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : - Now, I will request either Mr. Rowell Lyngdoh, Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh or Mr. Fuller Lyngdoh to move cut motion No. 4.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : - Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 1,45,18,800 under Grant No. 29, Major Head “31 –Agriculture” at page 178 of the Budget, be reduced to Re. 1, i.e., and the amount of the whole grant of Rs. 1,45,18,800, do stand reduced to Re. 1.

Mr. Speaker : - Cut motion moved. Now you can raise a general discussion on the policy of the Government, its failure and the failure of the department and unless you specify it I will not allow.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : - Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will specify the points. I want to disapprove the policy of the Government regarding the approach now to develop agriculture, by piecemeal distribution of small grants to the cultivators and also the approach of the Government to take up irrigation projects. Since the Government has failed, I suggest an alternative policy. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in moving this cut motion, I want discuss about the policy of the Government in their approach to the development of agriculture. There are two aspects of the policy of the Government has adopted for raising agricultural production by the Department of Agriculture itself to take up schemes and projects, for the development of major or biggest schemes to gear up production and also extension of agriculture in the river valleys in this State. Besides this, it is the policy of the Government to issue piecemeal grants-in-aid to the cultivators it may be in the form of terracing, minor irrigation projects and all that. Mr. Speaker, Sir, these projects and schemes of the Government which have been implemented till today are not commendable and if we look at the declared policy of the Government we find it is not so definite and it seems the Government .........................

Mr. Speaker : - You mean to say that the Government has no policy ?

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- I mean to say Mr. Speaker, Sir, that the policy of the Government declare and followed all along has totally failed. Because if you look at the budget you will find the Government had spent crores of rupees on irrigation but if you go to the various parts of the country, you will find no such irrigation projects had been taken up by the Department. I may tell you, Sir, in so far as agricultural; development in this State is concerned, I have gone to the eastern part, to the western part, i.e., in my constituency to the Bhoi area and to every nook and corner of the State where there are vast areas of arable lands where extension of agricultural developments is feasible. There are river valleys where cultivation can be done on both sides of the bank. But the Government and its department have done nothing. We find that these rivers are going dry every year and the level of water has come down and as such production of grains in those fields is very low. The aim and the policy of the Government in fact, is to set up sedimentary embankment to irrigate those areas where there is scanty rainfall, and besides that the erect sedimentary dams where there is scanty rainfall, and besides that to erect sedimentary dams to irrigate the river valleys in the different parts of the State. But, Sir, I say they have failed.

Mr. Speaker :- This is not the failure of the Government policy. You are pointing out the technical failure on the part of the Department in not implementing those schemes but you have stated clearly in the beginning that you would like to disapprove the policy of the Government on this matter. But from what you said it seems as if the Government has no policy at all. You have to prove and come forward with an alternative policy.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is due to the practical failure of the Government in implementing the schemes, the policy of the Government has failed.

Mr. Speaker :- Yes, but you have to come forward by way of an example.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- I am just referring to the approach of the Government by way of example, to remind the Minister about these difficulties and problems. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I cannot say now that the Department has failed technicall or the approach of the Government has all along failed. Regarding irrigating the Kynshi river, I have moved the Government since 1964 to irrigate the river valley as a whole Survey was done, estimate was made but the Government did not realise the sanction and the grant which has been estimated lapsed. Who failed, the Government or the Department concerned ? So, a mere declaration of the policy of the Government that they will do will not help, as in the implementation, they will not do anything. For instance, the river Kynshi was surveyed on a declared policy of the Government and on Kynshi itself, they have spent thousands of rupees on survey but o implementation and no development.

Mr. Speaker :- I think Mr. Lyngdoh it is a waste of time. Until and unless we understand what we mean by cut motion, I request all the hon. Members to come fully equipped with what they want to say whether it is a policy cut or a token cut or economic cut. I request them not to jumble up for the sake of all the Members concerned. At least try to relieve me of the burden of the guillotining the grants in future. You may be able to withdraw any other cut motion which, according to you is not so important. You can select only important cut motion and I think that will be for the interest of all the Members or the interest of the House or the interest of the State.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will not lengthen my discussion by referring to the details or the experience. I will go straight to the points. Sir, in this matter, I would request the Government that while adopting this approach, attempt should be made to get the sanction immediately for the schemes already drawn up by the  Department, otherwise if sanction is delayed, there will be no development at all in agriculture. Another point I want to raise Mr. Speaker, Sir, is that  the policy of giving piece-meal grants to the cultivators is not advisable. I will cite an example, Sir. In one area in Nongstoin Block or Mawsynram Blocks, such small grants were released at the end of the financial year and were distributed through the Blocks to the cultivators even for the work taken up centuries ago. I do not appreciate this policy of the Government. Therefore, I would suggest that instead of giving such small grants to the cultivators, the money may be spent for irrigation works to increase production in the river valleys which is subjected to drought. Therefore, I move my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- Before, the Hon'ble Minister gives his reply, I want to point out that there are only two points in the policy which the hon. Member has raised, namely, (1) the Government must abandon the  policy of giving piece-meal grants in aid to the cultivators and (2) that the Government should not spend money at the fag end of the financial year. These are the only important points in the matter of policy. I request the Minister not to dwell on details.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- Mr. Speaker,  Sir, on the points raised by the hon. Member not to give small grants to individuals, I have only this much to say that if the hon. Member would please look into the details of the budget, he will find that we have provided fund to create an Engineering Wing under Agriculture. That means we want to have the whole area of the State Surveyed and irrigated by the Department. I am one with the hon. Mover that these small grants will not be of much help and also the released of money at the fact end of the financial year is not always desirable. But we are also to depend on reports from the field officers and this has resulted in some delay. But I can assure the hon. Member that this matter will be looked in to so that in future the sanction of the schemes at the far end of the year is avoided. I, therefore, request to Mover to withdraw his cut motion.

Shri H.S Lyngdoh :- With the promise of the Hon'ble Minister to look into my suggestion, I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion ?

(Voice : Yes, Yes)

Mr. Speaker :- The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn. Now I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs. 1.45,18,800 be granted to the Minister in charge, to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1974 for the administration of the head "31-Agriculture".

(To motion was carried and demand passed)

        May I ask the Minister of Agriculture to move Grant No.30.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.9,35,000, be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1974 for the administration of the head "31-Agriculture-II-Fisheries".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received four cut motions on this grant. One stands in the name of Mr. S.D. Khongwir and the other stands in the name of Prof. M.N. Majaw. The  third one stands in the names of Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh and Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh. Of course the last through oversight, cannot be printed here which stands in the name of Mr. Hadem. May I ask Mr. S.D. Khongwir to move this cut motion.

*Shri S.D. Khongwir :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to move that the total provision of Rs.9,35,000 under Grant No. 30, Major head "31-Agriculture-II-Fisheries" at the page 193 of the Budget, be reduced to Rs.100 i.e, the amount of the whole grant of Rs.9,35,000 do stand reduced to Rs.100. My cut motion proposes to ventilate the grievances in regard to indiscriminate occupation of land and property at Umieit, Khasi Hills.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. You can raise a discussion.

*Shri S.D. Khongwir :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like only to ventilate this specific grievance to the Fishery Department for occupying certain plot of lands at Umieit and for construction of a dam on this particular place. They have constructed a dam with a view to bring water to the fishery ponds at Umieit and by doing so Mr. Speaker, Sir, the water channels which run to the paddy fields of certain individuals have been blocked. These people of Umieit, the owners of the paddy fields, have acquired the right of lease over this stream because they have been using its water off their paddy held for last 100 years or so. As we know, the paddy fields without water are not paddy fields since they cannot use it. Bu this action on the part of the Government to have a dam on this river to fill up the fishery ponds, they have blocked the water channels for the paddy fields there. This is the only grievance I have stated and the other point is the indiscriminate occupation of land. The Fishery Department has acquired certain plots of lands at Umieit for this purpose, and at the same time they have acquired a portion of this area which is already an approach to an area belonging to another person. This has not been lawfully or properly acquired and in fact, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had been to these places yesterday itself when I was on my way to Umroi. So I have seen it  personally and I wanted to bring this matter personally to the notice of the Government. With these few words I resume my seat.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, as far as occupation of land and property are concerned I would like to say a few words.. These lands were acquired by the Assam Government and properly demarcated and handed over to our Government through the D.C. and the Fishery Department took over the land only on 8th January 1972. About the encroachment and diversion of the water Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to request the hon. mover of the cut motion to advise those persons affected to approach us with application so that we can look in to the matter and help them. That is all I have to say and I hope that with these words the hon. Member will kindly withdraw his cut motion.

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, through this cut motion I wanted to ventilate the grievance I have brought personally here and I would like the Minister in charge at least to assure us in this House.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have to know the parties involved. Therefore, if the hon. Member likes to help us by asking to refer the matter to us so that action can be taken.

Mr. Speaker :- In fact the Minister has already assured to help in removing the distress of these people but they have also to follow the office procedure. Because we cannot just end here with proceedings of the House. Since  the proceedings of the House will take a long time to be made available to the Department concerned, the Minister has assured to give all the possible help.

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- I only want to stress one point because this is the time the people used to bring water into their fields. So the matter is urgent and that is why I have specifically brought it here. If the Government has assured to look into this ; in fact, the party concerned has already written and brought this matter to the knowledge of the Government, I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the cut motion ?

(Voice : Yes, yes)

        The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn. Now Mr. Majaw to move his cut motion.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, a I have decided to take up this matter with the Department personally I am not going to move my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- Now either Mr. Fuller Lyngdoh or Mr. H.S. Lyngdoh to move the next cut motion.

Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh (Mairang, S.T) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 9,35,000, under Grant No.30, Major head "31- Agriculture-II-fisheries", at page 193 of the Budget be reduced to Re.1, e.g., the amount of whole grant of Rs.9,35,000 do stand reduced to Re.1.

Mr. Speaker :- Before I allow you to move the cut motion the point is that what you have indicated here is still very vague. Will you bring out specific policy so that I will understand.

Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh (Mairang, S.T) :- I have only one point Sir, regarding the policy of the Government in giving grant to the applicants for development of fisheries. In this connection Sir, I have seen that the amount is very small because the amount is always based on acreage or on bighas. My point is that this amount will not help the people or will not at all encourage the people to start fishery ponds, etc. Sometimes I have seen that there are applicants who have spent more than 10,000 rupees in constructing fishery ponds but the amount granted to then as grants by the Government is only Rs.500 or Rs.300.

Mr;. Speaker :- I think it is better that I clarify what you want to say so that the Minister will reply. In your opinion the amount being paid to the people who have constructed fishery ponds is based on acreage and according to you, the Government should pay according to the actual cost of construction. 

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, while supporting the motion I would like to give a word of suggestion. It has come to my notice that there are a large number of applications and perhaps that is the reason why the Government has granted money based on acreage

Mr. Speaker :- My. Majaw, here we are discussing a definite policy and you cannot base your argument on supposition. Now I understand what you mean. The Government gives grants to the people according to the acreage and the area covered by water. That is the policy so far followed and now Mr. Lyngdoh has suggested an alternative policy.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- So on that particular policy Mr. Speaker, Sir, my suggestion to the Government is that the number of applicants should be limited and some applications should be drastically cut down. If the applicants are few in number, they can use the large amount granted really for granted fishery work instead of buying a radio set, watches or social celebrations in the applications in the applicant's house.

(Mr. Deputy Speaker in the Chair)

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member wants me to change the policy so far adopted in this regard. Our policy was to give to the extent of Rs.750 per acre or 50 per cent of the cost construction whichever is less. That is a fixed policy in granting this help and to change this, we have to alter the whole policy and that also is the intention of the hon. Member by saying that the cost of construction is more than the money granted. So this is laid-down policy and I cannot off-hand say whether we can change it or not. But definitely it is a question to consider. We will consider that the matter at the government level and arrive at a decision at a later stage. With these few words, I request the hon. Member to withdraw his cut motion.

Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as the Minister has promised to consider to .........

(Interruption)

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- I said to look into the matter not to consider .

Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh :- As the Minister has promised to look into the matter only I would like to request the Hon'ble Minister to consider one more point, and that is to kindly increase the amount at least if not to change the policy.

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- To that suggestion a reply has already been given by the mover and also by the hon. Member from Mawhati that it will be examined by the Government. No categorically reply can be given at this stage. 

Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh :- I withdraw the cut motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :-  Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the cut motion.

(Voice: Yes, yes).

        The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn.

        Now, Mr. Hadem to move his cut motion.

*Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with your permission I beg to move my cut motion that the total provision of Rs.9,35,000 do stand reduced to Re.1 i.e., that amount of the whole grant of Rs. 9,35,000 do stand reduced to Re.1.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved.

*Shri H. Hadem :- I want here to discuss the work of the Department particularly in Jaintia Hills. I will go direct  to the point Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Previously, before allocating any grant to any individual some sort of an Advisory Committee Meeting was convened and through that Committee some of the applications were eliminated because there were some fictitious applications, so to say. Now-a-days, Sir, as far as Jaintia Hills is concerned, the applications received are submitted through the Block Development Officer's concerned and the Block Development Officer does not take any step in the matter, he simply forwards the applications and as such it takes time. As it is, we cannot say that the work is done expeditiously. So at least they have the chance of having on the spot verification. Moreover, so far as my knowledge goes, no Inspector of the sort, or junior Inspector or Overseers for the on-the-spot verification have been employed in Jaintia Hills. And in this process we sometimes find that those who are not justified to get grants get the grants  while the real applicants who are really in need if it do not get. As such, I would like to bring these grievances to the notice of the Government through  you, Sir, that the Government should at least look into the matter and see that this sort of thing should not happen in future. With these few words, Sir, I resume my. Seat.

Shri E. Bareh )Minister, Agriculture) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir I am indeed grateful to the hon. Member who moved the cut motion and who has brought this information to my notice. I had no idea that the pattern and procedure have been changed. However, since it has been brought to my notice, I promise to look into the matter and see that the procedures are fixed as schedule. With these words, I request the mover to withdraw the cut motion.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Sir, with the assurance and clarification of the Minister, I beg to withdraw my cut-motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the cut motion ?

(Voices : Yes)

        The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.9,35,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course payment during the year ending 31st March, 1974 for the administration pf the head "31-Agriculture-II-Fisheries".

        (The motion was carried and demand passed)

        May I ask the Minister-in-charge of Agriculture to move Grant No.32

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.47,06,800 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charge which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1974 for the administration of the head "32-Animal Husbandry".

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received two cut motions which stands in the names of Shri D.N. Joshi, Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh, Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh and Shri Winstone Syiemiong. May I request Mr. Joshi to move the cut motion ?

Shri D. N. Joshi :Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that  the total  provision of Rs.  47, 06,800 under Grant No.32, Major head "32-Animal Husbandry  at page 204  of the Budget, be reduced  to Rs. 100 i.e., the amount  of the whole grant of Rs. 47,06,800 do stand reduced to Rs. 100 . Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, our State Government have taken up various Schemes for improvement and development of Animal Husbandry and in this connection, there are certain public grievances to bring here on this particular ground. There are in our Hills, the Khasi and Garo Hills, the graziers already in the trade. In the Budget Speech of the Finance Minister it has already been stated that only a Feed Mill with grinding and mixing capacity of 3 tonnes feed per hour has been established at Nayabunglow. We have been able to produce 4,000 litres of milk per day. SO we have been assured that the grazers are producing milk. But no where in the Budget scheme of the Government this year I find provision made for the improvement of the condition of these poor graziers who have to work under difficult conditions. There is no scheme for opening up colonies for these graziers, consequently their cattle goes to the fields of the farmers and a clash ensues, always a regular clash between farmers and graziers takes place due to the destruction of standing crops by the cattle's. Therefore, in the interest of scientific Animal Husbandry in the State, colonies should be built up and grazing reserves should be made so that the graziers can develop and improve their cattle-wealth and increase the yield of milk in a proper way. There are Schemes I find here to bring 12 bulls and 120 cattles from the Government of Denmark, but no where in the Scheme I find any steps to be taken by the Government to supply bulls to the graziers who are already in the trade so that they may improve the stock of their breed by getting their cows breaded with these redegreed breeds. We cannot ignore the cattle-wealth already in hands. We have to improve the the stock and in order to do this, we have to supply bulls to the graziers who are already in the trade. By opening up farms at Upper Shillong and by having certain schemes in the towns only we can not help the graziers who are responsible for the production of milk and for improving the health of the people of the State. So, I would like to stress upon the need of giving preference to the existing graziers themselves so that they may be of much help to themselves and to the State as a whole. There is no provision and no scope has been made fro fodder cultivation. That is a must. So, schemes must be drawn up for creating facilities in the interior for fodder cultivation so that the dearth of grass will not affect the health of the cattle and the yield of milk. There is no scope or provision made in the budget for extending cattle loan to the graziers already in trade. I do not know what are the impediments that prompted the Government not to draw up schemes for giving loans to the poor graziers for improving their lot. So facilities must be created and loans extended so that they may buy better bulls, bigger cows to augment milk production. There are Veterinary Hospitals and in the State, no doubt, one in Shillong and a Unit is there at Umsning and another at Umroi, but with no doctor. In a far flung village even if there is a doctor, it takes days to come either to bring a sick cow to the unit or to take a doctor to the place where the diseases have broken to give relief and in the meantime, the cow or cattle dies. Therefore, in each unit, facilities for proper supply of medicines, doctors and compounder must be made. I know, at Umroi especially, that there is no doctor and no medicines. There is no facility in Mawhati area while there are a large number of graziers from whom we get a large quantity of milk but they do not get any facility by way of veterinary relief can be had from the centre at Umsning because the area is quite a far. In Nongpoh area also we need a veterinary Unit or dispensary or hospital so as to cater to the needs of Nongpoh, Mardon and Mowsyntai. The Unit at Umsning for want of medicine is tally incapable, of supplying medicines to the needy. Regarding slaughter of cows here in Shillong, I have to point out to the Government through you, Sir, that cows and cattle's are brought from the plains through G.S. Road. We always see herds of cattle come to Shillong from Byrnihat area. It is a horrible sight. We have seen  that cows brought here for slaughter are sick and there is no proper facility or provision made to examine and supervise if these cows are fit for slaughter to be supplied as beef for human consumption. There is no scientific process by which beef is preserved or no scientific arrangement for proper slaughter of the cattle for supply as beef. Even in Shillong, we do not find modern and scientifically made slaughter-houses. The Government, I learnt, had a scheme in their mind to start modern slaughter-houses and butcher-house but uptil now nothing tangible has been done. Our hills, in the State of ours, are very ideal for sheep and goat rearing. In the Himalayan region, while I had the occasion to visit Himachal Pradesh I found that sheep are reared in an intensive scale there. So I would like to say that as  the scheme to rear sheep and goats is in the minds of the Government, the same should  be taken up immediately and intensively.

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I have every sympathy with some of the ideas expressed by the hon. Member, my good friend from the constituency of Shillong Cantonment and while I also agree with him that something should be done to improve the Veterinary Services in the State, I would also like to add a discordant note by pointing out to the problem of graziers which has assumed alarming proportions, frightening proportion, particularly in the Bhoi Area. Last year when I was privileged to be elected from the Mawhati Constituency there were 35 houses of graziers in Mawhati village, today these are 58 houses and in the village of Umsohlait where there are only 20 graziers houses, now there are 32. I would like to appeal to my hon. friend to kindly use his good services to distinguish between the genuine Indian graziers and the foreign graziers because the Government really has a big problem in this matter the problem of distinguishing because of the facial expression in dress and in a language. There is no means known to the Government to distinguish between the genuine citizens of India and the foreigners, I would humbly suggest with all the knowledge at my disposal that there are certainly large numbers of foreign graziers in the Bhoi Area today. I would like also to point out to my hon. Friend that there is such a thing as  the Sixth Schedule of the Constitution and the District Council and that there are also laws for the transfer of land from the tribal to the non-tribals. These are also matters which come have to be looked into. But these laws were formulated to protect the small community like our tribal people from exploitation by others. Now they come in hordes ; sometimes Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we had the occasion once to stop a jeepload of persons who came about 11.00 p.m. at night loaded with household and utensils even and returned them when they could not give their definite addresses from where they had come. But this thing is happening in the interior and I beg of the Minister to evolve a means by which this huge visit to village by foreign graziers coming to the Bhoi area where lot of lands have been stayed by them can be checked. Now, the problem as admitted by my hon. fried is that even paddy fields are beings trampled by the animals and that the has developed in to a clash. In the Mawhati village even they have elected Sirdar, a non-tribal Sirdar and the man had even summoned the Khasi-Sirdar before him. Such thing is happening and they have set up the Ri-Bhoi Panchayat and have applied to the Government for recognition of the Panchayat. I humbly submit that there should be a stop to these things. The old inhabitants we know very well. The ruler of the Raj land, we know very  well has a plan to give every help to them provided they follow our customary practice and customary laws and do not bring in  new graziers to increase their number. Two weeks ago a huge meeting was held at Mawhati bazar where unanimously a  resolution has been passed by the four Rajs of the area that every new entrant must be able to pay Rs. 1.00 per house. For mere application to remain in the area they have to pay Rs. 100.00 per year and if allowed, a decision will have to be taken and should be enforced in these areas. So I request my hon. Friend who represents the very important and honourable community which is well known for their bravery and honesty and hard work to help solve this problem of foreign graziers coming to our areas.

*Shri D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the suggestion and apprehension expressed by my friend from Mawhati with regard to this, if the glaziers as he said are new comers from the foreign land, they should not be given any place here because Meghalaya is for the Meghalayans. If it is of necessity to get the services from outside the State for technical know-how, we bring it but even in the trade we have got the Meghalayans, tribal and non-tribal they should be protected and no facilities should be given to any foreigner. If my friend, as he said and pointed out, that these are new comers. I for one stand for evacuation of these people.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Veterinary) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think I will not able to reply to all the points as the time is limited. I would like to get more time to reply to all points raised by the hon. Members on Friday, because I want to give a detailed reply.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- The Minister-in-charge Veterinary may reply on Friday.

Adjournment.

        Now the House stands adjourned till 9.00 a.m. on Friday the 30th March, 1973.

Dated Shillong

R.T. RYMBAI,

the 28th March, 1973.

Secretary.

Meghalaya Legislative Assembly.