The Assembly met in the Assembly Chamber, Shillong at 10.00 A.M on Tuesday, the 29th June, 1971 with the Speaker in the Chair.

QUESTION AND ANSWERS


STARRED QUESTIONS

(To which oral replies were given)

Mr. Speaker :- Let us begin with today's work by taking up starred questions.

Payment of compensation of land acquired along the Mawsmai-Shella Road.

Shri Gilfred Singh Giri asked :

11. Will the Minister-in-charge, Revenue be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether it is a fact that the supplementary compensation for land acquisition along the Mawsmai-Shella Road has been sanctioned?

        (b) If so, whether the amount sanctioned has been paid to the party / parties concerned by the District Collector?

        (c) If not, why not?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Revenue) replied :

11. (a) - Yes, The amount is for compensation for damages caused to trees, etc., during construction of the Mawsmai-Shella Road.

        (b) - Owing to some technical difficulties money has not been paid After proper scrutiny the compensation will be paid.

        (c) - Does nto arise.

Sheltering of Pakistani Refuges by One Shri N. Chakravarti

Shri S.P  Swer asked :

12. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

    (a) Whether Government is aware that one Shri Nogen Chakravarti of Bholaganj claimed a large number of Pakistani refugees families to be his relatives and employed them as labourers in his paddy fields at Bholanganj, in Cherra Syiemship?

    (b) If so, whether it is a fact that these families were given shelter by the said Shri Nogen Chakravati at Komorah of Sobhar SiRdarship and realised rent @ Rs. 5.00 per family per month?

     (c) If so, what action Government has taken against the said person?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) replied :

 12. (a) - On the an enquiry, it appears that Shri Nogen Chakravarti of Bholanganj brought 192 Pak evacuees consisting of 37 families from Bholanj evacuees camp on proper undertaking. They have been engaged for his own work.

        (b) - The evacuees families have been given shelter by Shri Nogen Chakravarti, but there is not information of realisation of rent from them.

        (c) - The B.D.O Shella-Bholaganj has been directed to cannel the undertaking of all except those who are his relations.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Speaker, Sir,  may I know from the Minister concerned whether Government is aware of the fact that  Shri Nogen Chakravarti is in possession of arms and ammunitions?

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- No, Sir, Government is not aware.

Shri S.P. Swer :- May I know, Sir, whether Government is aware that these evacuees have been engaged as labourers without payment of any daily wages?

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- We have no knowledge.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I know from the Minister concerned whether the Government is aware of the fact that the Komorrah abandoned buildings of the Assam Bengal Cement Company were requisitioned by the Government for keeping those refugees?

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- That is not a fact, Sir.

Transfer of Services of Sub-Inspectors of Schools to District Councils.

Shri Choronsing Sangma asked :

*13. will the  Minister, Education be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether the Service of Sub-Inspector of Schools have been transferred to the District Councils?

        (b) if so, when?

Shri Sandford Marak [Minister, Social Service (Education)] replied :

13.   (a) - No. The matter is under the active consideration of Government.

        (b) - As early as possible.

Employment of one Shri Subra Sekhar, a Pakistani National as Teacher in 
Cherrapunjee Ram Krishna Mission School

Shri S.P Swer asked :

*14. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether Government has received representation from one Inhabitant of Cherrapunjee that one Shri Subrata Sekhar Bhattacharjee, a Pakistani national has been employed as a teacher in the Ram Krishna Mission School, Cherrapunjee, by the Mission authorised there?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) replied :

14. (a) - Yes.

        (b) The matter has been enquired in to. It has been found that Shri Subrata Sekhar Bhattacharjee, (Not Subrata Sekhar Bhattacharjee) was formly employed by the Ram Krishna Mission, he only gave some voluntary service to the Mission for about the a month or so for which he was granted some temporary help.

Shri S.P Swer :- May I know, Sir, whether Shri Subrata Sekhar Bhattacherjee is still in the campus of the Ram Krishna Mission school?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister,  Finance) :- No, Sir, he has left the school on 17th June 1971.

The Number of Irrigation Scheme undertook since 1970-71

Shri Molendrouath Swer asked :

*15 Will the Minister in charge, Agriculture, etc., be pleased to state-

        (a) The number of irrigation Schemes undertaken by the Government during the period 1970-71?

        (b) The names of those Irrigation Projects?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Agriculture) replied :

15. (a) & (b) - Information is being collected.

Shri S. D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Agriculture) :- Sir, answer to question (a) & (b) - Information is being collected and the reply will be sent to be Member as soon as all the information as available in the Department.

Mr. Speaker :- According to the procedure, you may send the replies to the Assembly Secretariat.


Unstarred Questions.

(To which replies were laid on the Table)

Number of Range Offices of Soil Conservation.

Shrimati Josephin Momin asked :

33. Will the Minister of Soil Conservation be pleased to state -

        (a). The present number of Range Offices of Soil Conservation Department in the State?

        (b) Whether Government propose to increase the number of Range Offices of Soil Conservation in the State?

Shri Stanley D.D Nichols Roy (Minister, Soil Conservation) replied :

33.   (a) - The number of present Range Offices is 5.

        (b) - Yes.

Shri Witherson Momin :- In view of answer to question No.33 (a) it appears that Government have already taken action in the matter. But, may we know whether Government has selected places for offices also?

Shri S.D.D Nichols Roy (Minister, Agriculture etc) :- Not yet.

Government Suppliers and Contractors.

Shri Alwot Berry Diengdoh asked :

34. Will the Minister in charge, Stationeries, etc, be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether it is a fact that non-tribals are given preference by the Government as Government suppliers and contractors for the supply of stationeries, other articles and liveries to the Government offices in Meghalaya?

        (b) If so, why?

        (c) The names of suppliers and contractor of stationery, other articles and liveries since 2nd April, 1970, up to date?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

34.   (a) - No. The contractors or suppliers are appointed after inviting quotations and also on the basis of the lowest rates quoted by them. Tribal Firms who had come forward are given due consideration and preference if the rates are reasonable or if they accept the rates approved by the Government.

        (b) - Does not arise.

         (c) - Names of the Contractor/Suppliers approved for supply of various stores and articles for the period of from 2nd April, 1970 are given below :-

        1. Stationery Articles -

(i) M/S Meghalaya Enterprise, Laitumkhrah.
(ii)  M/S Sethia Brother, G.S Road.
(iii) M/S Khyriem Enterprise, Kutchery Road.
(iv) M/S Namita Stores, Police Bazar.
(v) M/S B.C. Bros, G.S Road.

        2. Miscellaneous Articles -     

(i) M/S Meghalaya Enterprise, Laitumkhrah.
(ii) M/S Assam Trading Agency, Barabazar.
(iii) M/S Namita Stores, Police Bazar.
(iv) M/S B.C. Bros., G.S. Road.

        3. Winter and Summer Liveries -

(i) M/S Clifford Lyngdoh, Mawkhar,
(ii) M/S Meghalaya Enterprise, Laitumkhrah.

        4. Rubber Stamps -

(i) M/S Jeen, Barabazar,
(ii) The Khasi-Jaintia Press, Mawkhar.

        5. Furniture for offices -

(i) M/S Mirullah and Sons, G.S Road.,
(ii) M/S Janata Industries, Police Bazar..

        6. Repairing of officer furniture -

(i)

M/S Phlen Synteng Lumparing,

(ii)

M/S Mirullah and Sons, G.S Road.

        7. Special Designed Office furniture -

(i) M/S Syan and Co., Gauhati.,
(ii) M/S Oriental Furniture, Dibrugarh.
(iii) M/S Hills Furniture, Mawkhar.

        8. Umbrella -

(i)

 Assam Trading Agency, Barabazar.

        9. Lump Coal and Charcoal -

(i)

 M/S Emanuel Kammar, Laitumkhrah.

Shri Alwot B. Diengdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know from the Minister in charge whether these are the only approved contractors of the Government?

Mr. Speaker :- That means 34 (c). In this the question is very clear, i.e. the names of suppliers and contractors of stationery, other articles who have supplied tot he Government. But the question is that - are these only registered contractors?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Not necessarily, Sir.

Pan-leaf Cultivation in Border Areas.

Shri Johndeng Pohrmen  asked :

        (a) Whether Government is aware that pan leaf is the principal cash crop grown in the Jaintia Hills areas bordering East Pakistan?

        (b) If so, whether the Government is proposing to get the pan-leaf analyzed for chemical purposes with a view to get an alternative market for it within the country, since the Sylhet market is no longer reliable following the partition of India?

        (c) Whether the Government is proposing to get the pan leaf analyzed for chemical purposes with a view to get an alternative market for it within the country, since the Sylhet market is no longer reliable following the partition of India?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Agriculture) replied :

35. (a) - Yes Government is aware that Pan-Leaf is an important cash crop grown in the Jaintia Hill bordering East Pakistan.

        (b) - The suggestion made by the hon. Member is very good and necessary steps will be taken to get the pan - leaf chemically analyzed.

        (c) - No Specific scheme of irrigation exclusively for pan - leaf cultivation has been taken up. Possibilities in this regard will be examined.

Setting up of Fruit Preservation Centre in Meghalaya 

Shri Johndeng Pohrmen asked :

36. Will the Minister in charge, Agriculture be pleased to state -

    (a) Whether any schemes have been drawn up so far for setting up fruit preservation centres in Meghalaya?

    (b) If so, where are they proposed to be set up?

Shri Stanley D.D, Nichols Roy (Minister, Agriculture) replied :

36. (a) - There are already two Fruit Preservation Centres set up by Government in Meghalaya one in Shillong in the Khasi and Jaintia Hills District and the other in Dainadubi in Garo Hills District.

        (b). - There is no proposal at present to set up any additional Fruit Preservation Centre. Necessary action is being taken to strengthen  the existing centres so that there is an increase in the out-put.

Shri John Deng Pohrmen :- Why the Government took so much time to set up new fruit preservation centres.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Agriculture, etc) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question is whether Government propose to set up new fruit preservation centres, and we are not going to set up any additional fruit preservation centre at present. The reply to question 36 (b) is very clear.

Shri John Deng Pohrmen :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will the Minister - in charge be pleased to state whether the Government is postponing consideration of setting up new fruit preservation centres.

Mr. Speaker :- There is no proposal at all.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Agriculture, etc) :- The reply is to question 36 (b) is very clear.

Rural Water supply in Garo Hills.

Shri Grohonsing Marak asked :

37. Will the Minister in charge P.W.D (Public Health Engineering) be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether Government has selected the major villages of Garo Hills to take up Rural Water Supply during this current year?

        (b) If so, on what basis the selection was done?

        (c) Whether Government is aware that there is strong demand d for pure drinking water in the following areas of Northern Garo Hills? (i) Adhokgiri (ii) Rajasimla, (iii) Kharkutta (iv) Resubelpara and (v) Bajengdoba?

        (d) If so, will Government be pleased to take immediate steps in this regard?

Shri Edwingson Bareh [Minister P.W.D (R & B) etc.] replied

37. (a) - Yes. Baghmara, Okhapara, Bonegiri, Sibbari and Phulbari

        (b) - Selection was made out of the schemes included in the 4th Five Year Plan, which was prepared in consultation with the C.E.M District Council, Garo Hill.

        (c) - Yes.

        (d) - Survey and investigation for Resubelpara and Bajengdoba are in progress.

Shri Samarendra Sangma :- What is the basis on which the Government consider whether a villages is minor or major?

Mr. Speaker :- The question asked is what is the criterion to be considered to distinguish whether a particular village is major village or minor village.

Shri Edwingson Bareh [Minister P.W.D (P.H.E)] :- As far as Garo Hills as Garo Hills is concerned, a village with 50 houses and above is considered as major village. There are villages with only two or three houses also. So we take that 50 houses in a village are enough to be considered major villages.

Shri Samarendra Sangma :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, whether those villages which are included in answer to question 37 (a) are major villages?

Shri Edwingson Bareh [Minister P.W.D (P.H.E)] :- Yes, they are supposed to be big villages.

Tura Water Supply.

Shri Grohonsing Marak asked :

38. Will the Minister-in-charge of P.W.D (P.H.E) be pleased to state -

        (a) When the Public Health Engineering Department started to executive the work of Tura Water Supply?

        (b) When will the work of be completed?

        (c) Whether it is a fact that the work has been entrusted only to one contractor who is also an outsider?

Shri Edwingson Bareh [Minister P.W.D (P.H.E)] Replied :

38. (a) - During February, 1968.

        (b). - The work is expected to be completed during the financial year 1971-72.

        (c) No, The work was entrusted to as many as thirty contractors.

Irrigation Project in Garo Hills

Shri Nurul Islam asked :

39. Will the Minister of Agriculture be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether there is any irrigation project in Garo Hills District?

        (b) If so, what types of irrigation are there?

        (c) Where they are located?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Agriculture) replied.

39. (a) - Yes.

        (b) & (c) - A list is placed on t he Table of the House.

        The Numbers of Government M.E. Schools in Meghalaya.

Shri Grohonsing Marak asked :

40 Will the Minister in charge Education be pleased to state -

        (a) The number of Government M.E Schools in the State of Meghalaya?

        (b) Whether the Government is aware that most of the Government M.E. School buildings are in a very bad condition?

        (c) If so, steps taken by the Government to construct these buildings?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Education) replied :

40. (a) - 29 (twenty- nine) Government M.E. Schools

    (b) - Yes.

    (c) - The amount of Rs.1,62,799 was allotted for improvement repair and construction of these Schools including staff quarters and hostels for the year 1970-71. If necessary more funds will be allotted during the current year.

Civil Hospital in Meghalaya.

Shri Alwot Berry Diengdoh asked :

41. Will the Minister in charge of Health of be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether it is a fact that all Civil Hospital in Garo, Khasi and Jaintia Hills automatically falls under the purview of Meghalaya?

        (b) If so, whether the Government of Meghalaya have taken over the Civil Hospital of Shillong?

        (c) If not, what are the difficulties in taking over the said Hospital?

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance, etc) replied :

41. (a) - Yes, except the Shillong Civil Hospital.

        (b) - No.

        (c) - At the present, the Municipal areas in Shillong are for many subjects including health under the administrative control of the Government of Assam. As the hospital falls within the Municipal area, it cannot be taken over by this Government.

Transfer of Shri H.A. Martak, B.D.O Baghmara

Shri Brojendra Sangma asked ;

42. Will the Minister in charge of Community Development be pleased to state - 

        (a) Whether it is a fact that one Shri H.A. Marak, Block Development Officer, Baghmara was under order of transfer from that Block?

        (b) If so, whether the he had handed over charge and released from that Block?

        (c) If the reply in (b) is in negative what action Government has taken in this regard?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Community, Development replied :

42. (a) - Yes.

        (b) - He proceeded on the earned leave with effect from 11th April, 1971 without properly handing over charge to Shri Duarah, Sub-Inspector of Statistics. He will not be allowed to rejoin the Block.

        (c) - Deputy Commissioner, Garo Hills, is taking steps to ensure all paper, etc are handed over to the present Block Development Officer.

Total Expenditure of Regrouping Villages in Garo Hills During 1970-71.

Shri Brojendra Sangma asked :

43. Will the Minister in charge of Finance be pleased to state -

        (a) The amount so far spent for the purpose to regrouping villages during the year 1970-71 in the District of Garo Hills.

        (b) In which places it was spent 

        (c) Whether any purpose will be served in regrouping villages like Danechikgiri Modern village of Garo Hills without giving any means for the livelihood to the people of that villages?

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance and Planning) replied :

43. (a) - The scheme of regrouping of villages in Garo Hills District was not implemented during 1970-71. This is one of the schemes included in our special programme submitted to the Government of India for approval. The matter is still under consideration of Government of India.

        (b) Does not arise.

        (c) The idea of the scheme on regrouping of villages itself is to take up development o f programme in the regrouped colonies by doing away with the present practice of shifting cultivation and shifting villages. Selection of villages has not yet been made. When such a programme is implemented. it would naturally provide facilities to the people; for earning their livelihood by various means.

Total Strength of Teachers in Tura Government Multipurpose School.

Shri Grohonsing Marak asked :

44. Will the Minister-in-charge of Education be pleased to state -

        (a) What is the present total strength of the teachers in the Tura Government Multipurpose School?

        (b) Whether the post of an Assistant Teacher in the Tura Government Multipurpose School is still lying vacant since 1970?

Shri Sandford Marak (Minister, Education) replied :

44. (a) - 33 (thirty three) Assistant Teachers in Class II Assam School Service.

        (b) - 1 (one) post of Science Graduate teacher is lying vacant.

Setting up of the Stadium in Shillong.

Shri Alwot Berry Diengdoh asked :

45. Will the Minister in charge of Social Welfare be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether the Government have considered the question of setting up a Stadium at Shillong?

        (b) If so, when?

        (c) Whether it is a fact that a sum of Rs.30,000 has been earmarked to meet the initial expenditure for the construction of Stadium at Shillong?

        (d) If so, why the work has not been started yet?

        (e) Whether the Government proposes to take up the improvement of Playground in the old Student Field at Jaiaw and Mission compound with a view to extend sports facilities to the youths of Shillong?

        (f) If so, what is the progress?

Shri Sandford Marak (Minister, Social Services Department) replied :

45.   (a) - No.

        (b) - Does not arise.

        (c) - No.

        (d) - Does not arise.

        (e) - Does not arise.

Shri Alwot B. Diengdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, is it not a fact that the Education Minister has assured on the Floor of the this House in the last session that the question of setting up of a Stadium will be considered?

Mr. Speaker :- As the Minister had assured on the floor of the House, that matter will be taken by the Committee on Government Assurances.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Whether Government is aware of the need to set up a Stadium at Shillong?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Answer to question 45 (a) is a very clear.

Mr. Speaker :- The question is that, whether Government is aware of the need to set up a Stadium at Shillong.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government is aware of the need of a Stadium but it has not considered the proposal.

The Names, Dates of Appointment, etc, of Lecturers in Tura Government College.

Shri Grohonsing Marak asked :

46. Will the Minister, in charge, of Education be pleased to state. -

        (a) The names, dates of appointment and qualifications of all the present lecturers of Tura Government College Seniority wise?

Shri Sandford Marak (Minister, Education)  replied :

46. (a) - The required information are as follows :- 

Department

Name Date of Appointment  Qualification Seniority Wise
English       1. Sri R. Bhattacharjee  01-07-67

M.A Second Class

Not yet fixed by the Government.

2. Sri G. Sen .. .. ..  01-07-67

"

... ...

3. Smti. B.K Sangma .. 01-11-68

"

.,. .. ..

Bengali     4. Sri R.K. Goswami ..  06-11-68

"

.. .. .. 

5. Smti. Ramala Kar .. 21-11-69

"

.. .. .. 

Assamese 6. Sri. B.C Saikia     .. 06-11-68

"

.. .. ..

7. Sri R.K Barua   .. ...  04-11-68

"

.. .. ..

Philosophy     8. Sri. R.N. Datta, Principal 01-07-67

"

.. .. ..

9. Sri T.K. Das 01-07-67

"

.. .. ..

Economics .    .. 10. Sri P.C Kar        .. . 01-07-67

"

.. .. ..

11. Sri A.G Momin   ..  01-07-67

"

.. .. .. 

12. Sri C.R. Marak 13-10-70

"

.. .. ..

History.....       13. Sri B.N Talukdar .. 30-07-69

"

.. .. ..

14. Sri A. Purkayastha 30-7-69

"

.. .. ..

15. Sri. A.C Sarkar 05-12-70

"

.. .. ..

Political Science 16. Sri K.M Momin 01-07-67

"

.. .. ..

17. Sri. A.R. Das 30-07-69

"

.. .. ..

18. Smti H. Nongrum 13-10-70

"

.. .. ..

Shri Arkamozzaman :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I draw the attention of the House to the list of professors .. .. .. .. 

Mr. Speaker :- No, you cannot draw the attention of the house but if you like, you can ask a supplementary question.

Shri Akramozzaman :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am coming to that, but it is necessary to say a little on this so that we can understand the whole thing. I am referring on this one History Professor, Shri A.C Sarkar as given in reply to question 46 (a). He was previously rejected by the Assam Public Service Commission and against this order, he appealed to the Assam High Court and that was also dismissed so far I understand. How then it was possible for the Government of Meghalaya to appoint this person in the same post.

Mr. Speaker :- In fact, you may raise this matter after the Zero hour.

Requisition of Assistants from Government of Assam

Shri Alwot Berry Diengdoh asked :

47. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether it is a fact that the services of some Assistants working on purely temporary basis including those who work in leave vacancies in the Government of Assam have been requisitioned by the Government to serve in Meghalaya?

        (b) Whether the Government is aware that an Assistant working in the leave vacancy of the P.H.E Department of the Government of Assam has been requisitioned to work in the P.H.E Department of Meghalaya?

        (c) Whether it is the intention of the Government of Meghalaya that in requisitioning L.D Assistants and other ministerial cadres, only 70 percent of the demand will be fixed up by requisitioning and the rest 30 percent by direct recruitment?

        (d) If so, whether the Government is aware that some Heads of Departments of the Government of Meghalaya have requisitioned more than 70 per cent and some have reached to 100 per cent?

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) replied :

        47. (a) & (b) - No, except in the Public Health Engineering Directorate, where the services of one Lower Division Assistant who is working in purely temporary vacancy were requisitioned because it was not known at the time of requisition that the she is working as such.

        (c) - Government have decided that  60 percent and 70 per cent of the posts of Lower Division Assistants in the Secretariat and officers of the Head of the Departments respectively in shall be taken from Assam and the rest by the direct recruitment.

        (d) - Yes, The percentage of requisition exceeds 70 percent in Public Works, Forests, Information and Public Relations, Industries, and Supply Health Services and Cooperation Directorates. The reservation of percent age as indicated in reply to (c) above will be adjusted in future vacancies.

Shri Alwot B. Diengdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know from the Minister, In charge who is responsible for the requisition of the said Lower Division Assistants?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- The answer is clear and that it is the Public Health Engineering Directorate.

Recruitment of Employees by Government.

Shri Nurul Islam asked :

48. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

        (a) How many number of employees had been recruited in offices of the Government of Meghalaya after the State came in to being?

        (b) Of these, how many tribals and how many non-tribals?

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Finance, Minister) replied :

48. (a) - Two hundred and ninety-three (including 12 short term appointment whose services had been terminated).

        (b) - (i) Tribals - 250 (including 11 temporary appointments).

                (ii) Non-tribals - 43 (including one temporary appointment).

        The above figures exclude the information in respect of the District Officers under the Conservator of Forest. Information in respect of these offices are being collected.

Shri Akramozzaman :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the figure of non-tribals is 43. Are all these Meghalayans or non- Meghalayans and what is the proportion between Meghalayan and Non-Meghalayan non-tribals?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I require notice.

Shri Akramozzaman :- Since the number of non-tribals is 43, I believe no notice is necessary and the Minister at least should have come prepared for this.

Establishment of Nursery Farms and Plantations for raising Coffee and Black Pepper.

Shri John Deng Pohrmen asked :

49. Will the Minister in charge of Soil Conservation be pleased to state _

        (a) Whether the Government have taken steps to follow up its proposal of establishing nursery farms and plantations at Nongtalang and Nongbareh in the Jowai Subdivision for raising coffee and black pepper?

        (b) If so, what is the present position?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Soil Conservation) replied :

49. (a) & (b) - It is not a proposal by the Soil Conservation Department Government of Meghalaya and we are not taking steps at these areas are not suitable for raising and coffee and black pepper .

Shri John Deng Pohrmen :- Whether the Government is aware that survey had been conducted last year with regard to the establishment of nursery farms and plantations at Nongtalang and Nongbareh in the Jowai Subdivision for coffee and pepper.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Soil Conservation) :- So, far as the Department of Soil Conservation of is concerned, it is not a proposal of the Soil Conservation Department of the Government of Meghalaya and as far as my information goes on steps have been taken  for conducting a survey.

Shri John Deng Pohrmen :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, if so, how then the Government came to know that these areas are not suitable for raising coffee and black pepper?

Mr. Speaker :- Without conducting investigation?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Soil Conservation) :- I did not say that investigation were not conducted. I said 'survey' which is a different matter. After making a survey, the Soil Conservation Department came to the conclusion that the particular site was not suitable because they do not get enough sunshine, the yield rate is low, and the area is rocky and for that reason, there was no proposal to establish nursery for that particular crop in that particular area.

Shri John Deng Pohrmen :- Will the Minister in charge be pleased to ask for a report from the office of the Ranger in the Soil Conservation Department established at Jowai?

Mr. Speaker :- No, that is a request and not a question. Let us come to Unstarred Question No.50.

Inadequacy of Supply of Bone-Meal to Cultivators in Jowai Subdivision.

Shri John Deng Pohrmen asked :

50. Will the Minister in charge, Agriculture be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether the Government is aware that the bone - meal supplied to the cultivators of the Jowai Sub division this year is so inadequate, and that most of the it is not of standard quality and there by the cultivators have been put to great hardships?

        (b) If, so, whether Government are taking necessary steps in this regard 

        (c) Whether it is a fact that a big amount of money was surrendered from the Agriculture Department during the last financial year due to non-utilisation of fund?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Agriculture) replied :

50. (a), (b) and (c)- Information is being collected.

The total Number of sanctioned Posts Categories-Wise in Government Departments

Shri Alwot Berry Diengdoh asked :

51. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state :-

        (a) The total number of sanctioned posts in all categories in all Government Departments of the State of Meghalaya as on 31st December 1970?

        (b) Total number of posts filled up?

        (c) Total number of vacancies as on 31st December 1970?

        (d) Whether all the vacancies are in respect of persons for specialised service?

        (c) If not, the number of vacancies not requiring specialised service and the reasons for not filling up those vacancies?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

51. (a) (b) and (c) A statement is placed on the table of the House.

    (d) - No. The vacancies could not be filled up as the Government of Assam have not released the officers and staff we have asked for. On the other hand, the vacancies in the Lower Division Assistant and Typist cadres were not filled up because of reservation for direct recruitment. The number of such vacancies is as shown in the statement in answer to question (a0, (b), and (c).

Difficulties of Border people on account of Political situation in East Pakistan.

Shri John Deng Pohrmen asked :

52. Will the Minister in charge of Border Affairs be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether the Government is aware that due to present political unrest in East Pakistan our border people find it extremely risky to go to work in their cultivations with the result that they are deprived of the means of earning their daily bread?

        (b) Whether the Government is also aware that as a result of the current civil war in East Pakistan, the little border trade that has been introduced recently in the border areas, has come to a stand-still leading as such to great economic hardships of the border people?

        (c) If the reply to (a) and (b) above are in affirmative, whether, the Government are proposing to draw up special schemes for the providing immediate relief to the border people.

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

52.   (a) - Yes.

        (b) - Yes.

        (c) - The people in the border areas most affected due to the Pakistani firing have been removed to safer places, and shelter and rations also given to them. For giving relief to the people in general due to the closure of the border markets, subsidy schemes are being drawn up, and a number of fair price shops have also been opened in the border area.

The numbers of I.A.S and A.C.S Officers in the State

Shri Grohonsing Marak asked :

53. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state :-

        (a) What is the total number of I.A.S Officers in the State?

        (b) What is the total number of A.C.S I and II in the state?

        (c) The total number of Directors of different Departments in the State?

        (d) How many persons have been newly appointed in addition to those recruited from Assam Secretariat and other Heads of Departments by the Government of Meghalaya since its inception in the Office of the Secretariats and on various Directorates?

        (e) Whether the Government has any plan to solve the unemployment problem in the State?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

53. (a) - 18 (eighteen).

    (b) - (i) A.C.S - I - 22 (including three with the District Council)

            (ii) A.C.S - I - 30 (including one with the District Council).

    (c) - 20 (including ex-officio Directors).

    (d) (i) Secretariat -

Grade III

... ...

... ... 

10

Grade IV

... ...

 ... ...

85.

        (ii) Directorates -    

Gazetted

... ...

... ... 

4

Grade III

... ...

 ... ...

17.

Grade IV

... ...

... ...

29

        (e) - Yes, Government have decided that 40 percent and 30 per cent of the posts of Lower Division Assistants in the Secretariat and the offices of the Heads of Departments respectively and 20 per cent of Typist and  70 per cent of Grade IV in the Secretariat and offices of the Heads of Departments shall be filled up by direct recruitment to solve unemployment problem in the State.

        It is expected that with the increase in developmental activities in the State, there shall be more employment opportunities.

Mr. Speaker :- So now we have completed the Question Hour.


ZERO HOUR

Shri Galynstone Laloo :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to raise a matter of public importance if you allow me.

Mr. Speaker :- In Zero Hour? Yes, what is the subject?

Shri Galynstone Laloo :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your permission, I want to bring to the notice of the House a matter of public importance. Since today is the last day of the sitting of the house, I have no other alternative but to raise the issue during the Zero Hour. At the time when the Finance Minister was replying to the discussion on the Budget, the whole House was happy when the Finance Minister told that that Government had taken all possible steps towards giving assistance and relief to the people of Umkrem, Umsyiem, Pyrdiwah and Kong wang and other villages numbering about 1,300. It may be recalled here that these people had to vacate their villages because of heavy shelling of Pakistani force to these poor villages and they had to gather shelling a at a place of known as Sohlong. The people have by themselves erected some huts at Sohlong. But uptil today no action has been taken by the Government either to finance the construction of these huts or to supply food, medicine and other necessity of life. The result is that  they were in a chronic stage of starvation. Until and unless Government rush immediate help to Sohlong hundreds will die out of starvation within a few days. I have received reliable information about this state of affairs. I would, therefore, strongly urge upon the Government to explain to this august House why should situation be allowed to deteriorate and why action was not taken in time. With these few words, Sir, I resume my seat.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, only on the 5th of June, that we have asked the Deputy Commissioners of the two Districts to give reports on the conditions of the people who had to run away away from the villages on account of firing by the Pak Forces. A report came after a few days and it takes some time for the Government  to consider, and immediately on the 10th of June, we have given order that these people should be given  assistance and relief  in the same manner as the people from across the border. The work has been entrusted to the local officers, the B.D.Os and I hope that within a few days, the assistance and relief will reach the people of the affected areas.

Mr. Speaker :- But the question put is why Government has not taken action in time.

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- I have reported , Sir, that action has been taken on the 10th of June. When I went myself to Sohlong, I met the Deputy Commissioner and he had given orders to Mr. Blah, Assistant Commissioner of Jowai and B.D.O Pynursla to take action in giving assistance, and aid to these people I am sorry that the department had taken some time to implement that order. I hope within the a few days that order will be implemented.

Mr. Speaker :- I think, if the situations - as the the hon. Member has reported, it is high time for the Government that they deputed some officers to go the spot and to rush and render necessary assistance to those people in time.

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- In fact, a few days, ago, Mr. Laloo had met me on this question. I have contacted the Deputy Commissioner and was told that something has been done. Any way, I assure you and the House that today or tomorrow I will see these things are attended to.

*Shri Akramozzaman :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to have a clarification in the matter of appointment of Shri A.C Sarkar, because there were some Professors who services were discontinued after the Tura College was taken over by the Government of Assam All these Professors were examined and interviewed by the Assam Public Service Commission and after that, Shri A.C Sarkar and another Professor, Shri Monul Haque, were not recommended for services. Against this order, as I understand, they appealed to the Assam High Court. But subsequently, it was found that they could nto get any remedy from the decision made by the Assam Public Service Commission or the Assam Government. since they, Shri Sarkar was cut out of employment.

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- May I have one word in this matter? I was informed that the matter is still in the court of law.

Mr. Speaker :- Then the House is not competent to discuss any matter which is still pending in any court of Law. We are not going to discuss the matter or this House which is pending in the court and the case of the Shri Sarkar is still pending in the Supreme Court.

Shri Akramozzaman :- That is the point, Sir, went the matter is pending with the Court, his services were discontinued. When the Court has not given clear verdict, how it it possible for the Government to appoint the same person again?

Mr. Speaker :- That is out of the question again. Whatever the Government  do, this House cannot discuss this matter which is connected with the case which is still pending in the court of Law. The case is subjudice.

Shri Akramozzaman :- Yes, Sir, I feel that my intention................. 

Mr. Speaker :- You want to fragment the issue?

Shri Akramozzaman :- And how is it possible for the Government .. ... ... .... ... ... .... 

        Any matter which is pending with any court of law is not within the competence of this House to discuss.

*Shri Johndeng Pohrmen :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to bring to the notice of the Government that in the course of Pak shelling of the border areas, over and above the plight of the people from these border villages, their properties including betel-nut, pineapple and orange plantations have been destroyed and even houses of people have been destroyed. I would request Government to take special steps to make special enquiry, so that adequate compensation may be given to the affected people in those areas.

Mr. Speaker :- You are only requesting the Government for certain grievance of the people. Let us see what is the Government's stand on it. Whether Government will assure or not?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- The matter will be examined Sir.

*Shri Witherson Momin :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to raise a point which is a matter of public importance. A few days ago, I found in newspapers report that there is apprehension an attack from Chinese side or the Pakistani side on India. I may be some time in the dry season. It would, therefore, be safe for the country that Government construct a link road between Tura and Shillong expeditiously. Otherwise, the country will not be safe.

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, P.W.D) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question of linking Tura with Shillong in the monsoon is not possible However, I can assure by next April, the Member will be able to travel from Shillong to Tura by jeep.

Shri Witherson Momin :- But what will happen if an aggression comes before that?

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, P.W.D) :-  If an aggression comes we have to fight. 

(Laughter)

Mr. Speaker :- Mr. Pohrmen, you have already given notice to raise a discussion today during the zero hour.

*Shri Johndeng Pohrmen :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, last time, I had submitted a question and not only I, but other Members also. In the last Session, we wanted to know why some of the our questions had been answered and many had not been. Amongst those questions, not answered, a few have been received by me from certain Departments. Now I would like to raise a discussion on this as to why other Departments did not think it necessary to give the answers to the question put by the members. Because these questions were asked in the context of public importance and if the answers are not given by the Government the meaning of public importance is lost. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to raise a discussion on this because there are certain questions which had been submitted not only by me, but also by other Members as to why the Ministers concerned did not think it necessary to send answers, and whether even now the Ministers concerned will think it necessary to send the replies.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Agriculture) :- May we be guided  by what the rules say, under the rules of the Assembly.

Mr. Speaker :- In fact, in so far as the question is concerned, there is no specific rule. We are to be guided by convention and also by sense of responsibility. When question on a matter of public interest is asked by the Hon. Member, it is the duty of the Minister to reply, But of course, there are a  number of questions which place the Minister in a very very difficult position. In order to reply to a particular question sometimes it may take weeks and months to collect to collect date, and that is why on many occasions, the Minister concerned fail to comply with the answer to some questions and that is why it is very difficult to lay down any definite rules on this. But definitely. the main purpose of the question is actually to ensure legislative control not and surveillance over Government action and that is why the question hours are very very important these days. If we lay down the rules, and if the Minister cannot reply these, strictly under those rules, it would  be a breach of privilege. That is why, all legislative policies are guided more by convention and high sense of responsibility than by the any indefinite rules.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Parliamentary Affairs) :- On this, Mr. Speaker, Sir, as you has explained very clearly, it is the Government who have taken all steps to answer all or most of the questions, but as you have said that there are many questions that we take quite a long time to get the data and information from the Districts and other Departments, we found it was not possible to give the replies in time.

Shri Ohiwot Khonglah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I get it right, I think the Minister said that the Government will try to answer most of the the questions and not all.

Mr. Speaker :- In order to clarify the position, I think it is my duty to explain to the Hose about the actual position.. in so far as the current Session is concerned, from the Assembly Secretariat we have sent  23 Starred questions to the various Departments and 76 Unstarred questions. Out of the 23 Starred questions, 15 have been replied and out of 76 Unstarred questions, 55 have been replied. I think it is a good show. In some other Assemblies out of 2000 questions only 200 or so the are replied. In the March Session, from the Assembly Secretariat we sent 37 Starred Question to the various Departments and out of 37, 16 were replied and we sent 32 Unstarred questions to the various Departments and out of 32 Unstarred questions 13 were replied. I think we have done better than in the previous Session. But I would like to draw the attention on the hon. Members and of the Ministers also that in so far as the questions are concerned, it is highly essential for everyone in this House to remember that in framing the questions, the hon. members should be always try to seek information from the Government and not to trap the Government. On many occasions, it is found that the main intention of the questioner is always of this House. In so far as the other factors are concerned, we must also remember that inspite of the fact that our Secretariat had already informed the Members to send their questions in time, everyone sent the questions at the eleventh hour. How can the hon. Members experts replies from the Ministers if the Ministers to do not get the questions in time. The Government may have to spend thousands of Rupees just to get an information about one questions. Thirdly, I would request the hon. Members that in framing the questions, the ambit of questions should be narrower in their content so that the answers will be clear and more definite. I would also like to request the hon. Members to take advantage of asking more supplementaries. Until and unless the hon. Members know how to ask more supplementary questions, the whole House will not get the benefit, the State will not get benefit. Questions are one of the means by which the Legislative Assembly controls the Government . I will also request the Minister to be well armed with answers and not to take refuge in the phrase "I require notice" (Laughter). The Members are also requested to frame better questions for the interest of the State as a whole, and, from the side of our Assembly Secretariat also we will try our level best to help the hon. Members concerned in framing questions, and the Questions Branch, of the Assembly will be at your disposal. Very often Members find it difficult to frame questions in a proper manner. So, let us come to the next item of today's list of business.

Shri Witherson Momin :- Mr. Speaker, Sir,.. .. .... ... .. 

Mr. Speaker :- No, we have already passed the Questions Hour to the zero hour. The next item is the announcement of the names of the Members of the various Committees. 


Announcement of names of Members of Legislative Committee.

          I now announce the names of Members constituted for the three different Committees of this Legislature.

(1) COMMITTEE ON SUBORDINATE LEGISLATION :

(Under Rule 251)

1. 

Mr. Rokendro Dkhar, M.L.A

2.

Mr. Akramozzaman, M.L.A

3. 

Mr. S.P. Swer, M.L.A

4.

Mr. P. Ripple Kyndiah, M.L.A

5.

Mr. Modi Marak M.L.A

        I appoint Mr. Rokendro Dkhar, M.L.A to be the Chairman of the Committee.

(2) COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT ASSURANCES :

(Under Rule 257)

1. 

Mr. G.A Marak,  Deputy Speaker.

2.

Mr. Singjan, Sangma, M.L.A

3.

Mr. Justman Swer, M.L.A

4.

Mr. Johndeng Pohrmen, M.L.A

5.

Dr. H.C Bhuyan, M.L.A.

        I appoint Mr. G.A Marak, Deputy Speaker, to be the Chairman of the Committee

(3) RULES COMMITTEE.

(Under Rule 259)

1.

Mr. B.B. Lyngdoh, Minister of Parliamentary Affairs.

2.

Mr. Darwin D. Pugh, Minister of State.

3.

Mr. Singjan Sangma, M.L.A

4.

Mr. Grohonsing Marak, Deputy Speaker.

        (The Speaker shall be the Ex-officio Chairman of the Committee)


Government Bill.

        Now,  let us come to the second item of today's list of the business, and, before I request the Chief Minister to move his motion for consideration of the Meghalaya Subsidiary Force Bill, 1971, I will read the message from the Governor :-

        "In exercise of the powers conferred by sub - section of (3) of Section 37 of the Assam Reorganisation (Meghalaya) Act, 1969 (Central) Act 55 of 1969) I, Braj Kumar Nehru, Governor of Assam exercising my functions as Governor in relation to Meghalaya hereby recommend to the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly the consideration of the Meghalaya Subsidiary Force Bill, 1971".

Dated Raj Bhavan,

Sd /- B.K. NEHRU.

Shillong.

Governor".

The 24th June, 1971.

        In the absence of the Chief Minister, may I request the Finance Minister to move that the Meghalaya Subsidiary Force Bill, 1971, be taken in to consideration?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minster, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Meghalaya Subsidiary Force, Bill, 1971 be taken into consideration.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I put the questions before the House. The questions is that the Meghalaya Subsidiary Force Bill, 1971, be taken into consideration.

(The motion was carried)

        Since there is no amendment to the Bill, may I request the Finance Minister to move the motion for passing.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Meghalaya Subsidiary Force Bill, 1971 be passed.

*Shri Akramozzaman :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the other day when the incident of at Shillong was discussed, at the conclusion of the discussion the Leader of the House passed a remark that even after the attainment of the full - statehood, if the State could be controlled without police we he would have been very glad. After some days now we are getting a Bill - the Meghalaya Subsidiary Force Bill - to be considered by this House. The aim of the Bill is to assists police in the maintenance of law and order in Meghalaya and also to assists the Deputy Commissioner in managing the refugees camps which we established in different parts of the Meghalaya besides other duties. Sir, if the we go to the scrutinise the whole affairs of law and order and police department in Meghalaya we find that there is a regular police and there are also some villages functionaries under the control of the District Council such as Laskers, etc. They are functioning as police and there is also an organisation known as Villages Defence Party to assist the police, In addition, there is a villages Council Police also appoint6ed by the District Council. Now over the above all these organisations we are again going to raise a Subsidiary Force to maintain law and order in Meghalaya. I want  to know whether law and order position has very much deteriorated that a Subsidiary Force is required to be raised. I shall be glad to have an information from the Government and the statistics of the cases, cognizable or non-cognizable or non-bailable cases, that are being tread or are pending to be tried in the courts of Garo Hills and Khasi Hills and Jaintia Hills district so that we may know whether they will justify that such a Subsidiary Force is required to be raised for assisting the police.

        Another thing is this. There is something in the clauses of this Act which requires further consideration by the Government which, if not deleted or done otherwise, may come to parallel organisation of the police itself, I will read Clause 6 (2) -

        "Every Officer or member shall have the power to arrest any proclaimed offender or any person who in his views commits a non-bailable and cognizable offence".

        Sir, here are the words, 'In this views commits a non-bailable and cognizable offence" "Non-bailable and cognizable offences" are well defined in the criminal Procedure Code. It does not define only the defined in the Criminal Procedure Code. It does not only the views of particular officer or member. So, when any non-bailable or cognizable offence is committed, if the officer in his view thinks that it is not non-bailable or cognizable offence, then the person can easily escape; or when a man commits a bailable or non-cognizable offence and if it is arrested, then there will be no protection of the liberty of the people. So, the very words 'in his views', I believe, will lose the effectiveness of the case and will lose the force of the Bill itself Non-bailable and cognizable offence are well defined in the Criminal Procedure Code or the India penal Code where there is no necessity of interpreting the views of any person particularly the views of a person who is going to take action. The expression 'in his views' is so much elastic that an officer can harass people and officers can avoid their  duties. So, the House may kindly consider about it so that operation of the Bill can be given effect to without disturbing the liberty of the citizens of Meghalaya.

        Again, Sir, what will the happen when there is a parallel organisation of police, Here it says, "Any person so arrested shall without unnecessary delay be taken or caused to be taken in custody to the nearest Police Station or Magistrate". In fact that case, what is defined in Clause 6 (a) is that it is "to assist and aid the police in the maintenance of law and order in Meghalaya". This part is all right. But there is a mention of a 'Magistrate'. Now the question comes in. When a person is going to produce an offender before a Magistrate, he must give some report also. he must give some report of the offences. Non-bailable and cognizable offences are usually enquired in to and investigated by the Police. Now the question is that when a person will give a repost and produce the accused before the Magistrate, who will investigate the case? The thing is that the Magistrate  may accept the report of the member of the Subsidiary Force and put a man in to custody and then the papers shall have to be sent to the Police Station for enquiry. Then the investigation may be delayed, and when investigations delayed, justice shall also be denied, if it is not there, I believe, the very purpose of this Clause 6 (a) 'to assists and aid the police in the maintenance of law and order' would have been better served and there would not have been a chance of having a parallel organisation. The dispute may also arise, about offences between the Subsidiary Force and the regular police. So, this is a matter which requires consideration of the Government and I believe that though there is no amendment there will be no objection from the Treasury Benches if these two expressions 'in his view' and the 'Magistrate' or subsequent lines are deleted from the Bill. Then the purpose will be better served and there will be no chance of having parallel organisation and justice will be not be delayed for further investigations. When an offender is produced before the Magistrate, instead of the Police Station, the Magistrate will take the papers and send the papers to the Police Station for investigation. If the Magistrate does not send the papers to the Police Station but sends to another persons, then the question of parallel organisation comes in and if it is sent to the Police Station the question of delay comes in. In either of the cases if is not good for the  maintenance of law and order. So, I believe the Government will explain the matter  how this shady affairs can be cleared and there will be no parallel organisation and investigation will not be delayed. It will also be proper to see whether law and order situation of Meghalaya has improved or whether it is has deteriorated that the Subsidiary Force is required to be raised to assist the Deputy Commissioner in the relief camps. If the Government of Assam and the Government of West Bengal can mange and maintain peace, law and order and discipline in the refugees camps without raising any Subsidiary Force, why is it not possible for the Government of Meghalaya to do the same. I would like to know what difficulties are there and I hope the House will be glad to know the difficulties of Meghalaya Government. I believe the Government will give a satisfactory reply and clarifications so as to justify raising of the Subsidiary Force at a cost of Rs.60 lakhs of rupees from the poor people and the exchequer for the  maintenance of law and order situation I believe law and order situation in Meghalaya is far better than any other State of in India at present. So, why this purpose which is not to be wasted, when our State is very poor, for the purpose which is not so urgently required for us.

Shri Witherson Momin :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I take that the Act will have jurisdiction over Shillong also which falls within Assam.

Mr. Speaker :- It appear that you do not really understand the position of Shillong. Let the Minister in charge give the reply.

Shri Ohiwot Khonglah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir,  I think our State, as it is now, is badly in need of the power over law and order and it deserves the power to have all civil police both armed and unarmed. But unfortunately Mr. Speaker, Sir, this happens to be one of the short-comings of the Assam Reorganisation (Meghalaya) Act 1969 and therefore, I think in Assam order to cope with the situation prevailing in the state, the question of raising this force the Subsidiary Force comes in. I think raising of this force, Mr. Speaker, Sir, at this time is a good beginning for our State. It will at least besides meeting the demands of the State for smooth and efficient running of day to day administration, enable the Government to provide jobs to two thousand youths of the State. However, Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the various Sections of this Bill, it is quite evident that the success of this Act or Bill depends the wholly on the goods will to be generated from both sides (i.e., between the Assam  Civil police and this Force) the Bill seeks to raise a force which will assist the Civil Police in the maintenance of law and order in Meghalaya. Since each of these forces-the Assam Civil Police and this subsidiary force will have to depend on each other, successful implementation of this Act will depend much on the amount of good-will to be exerted by both.

        Well, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assam Reorganisation (Meghalaya) Act 1969, by which our State came in to being, was itself the result of good will on the part of all parties concerned. The Assam Government as will as the Meghalaya Government had decided to give this Meghalaya Plan a fair trial. With the same spirit of giving Meghalaya Plan a fair trial  by all concerned, I hope the purpose of this Subsidiary Bill will also succeed. However, Mr. Speaker, Sir, turning to the various Sections of this Bill, I would like to make some observation, for which I would like to have some clarification from the Government, I refer Mr. Speaker, Sir, to Section 6 of this Act Section 6 enumerates all the duties and functions of this Subsidiary Force to be raised under this Act, From the nature of duties and functions as it appears here, it is evident Mr. Speaker,  Sir, that ultimately there will be there will be three branches or three wings of this force. It appears that there will be one branch of those who will pass the State intelligence or informations in the manner that is being done by the State Intelligence or by the Subsidiary intelligence bureau of the Central Government. It also appears that there will be branch No.2 which will be that of those who will assists the work of the Civil Police and branch No.3 which will be that of those who will do social works. Yet Mr. Speaker, Sir if you refer to section on 8 of this Act, you will see that the officers and members of the force shall wear uniforms. From the nature of duties, Mr. Speaker, Sir, it appears to me that in some branches of this force, wearing of uniforms will not be advisable, take for example branch No.1 which is that of those who will pass intelligence reports. I do not know how intelligence people will never wear uniforms because uniforms as I understand it as means of identifications by which the wearer is identified. However, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to get some clarifications on this point. As I see in this Act, there is no specification or nothing at all is specified either regarding these branches or regarding wearing of uniforms by branches. Secondly Mr. Speaker, Sir, as per Sub-section (2) of Section 6 we see there, that officers or members of this force are empowered to arrest or bring about an arrest of any proclaimed offender or any person who in their opinion commits any non-available and cognizable offence. Yet this Act, does not make any reference to any Central Government's Acts especially the code of Criminal Procedure empowering its legislation, Besides this Mr. Speaker, Sir, it does not also make any mention whether the officers of this force can record statement made to them in course of discharges their duties. Mr. Speaker, Sir, when these officers and members of the force can arrest people, certain statements particularly of those arrested will have to be made or obtained and I do not know if these officers of the force will be competent to record such statements as there is no mention about this in this Act. However, Mr. Speaker, Sir, section 12 of this Act empowers the State Government to make Rules to carry out the purpose of defects of the Act might not be remedied by the Rules. If such is the case, Mr. Speaker, Sir, it appears  to me that if what I have stated will be relevant or valid then certain amendments to this Act - shall have to be brought forward. However, I hope the Government will examine the Act and look in to the mater properly, and if necessary amendments be taken up by the Government itself in  future years. Thirdly, Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is another thing which I cannot understand and for which I would like to get clarification. As I see it, under the  Assam Re-organisation (Meghalaya) Act 1969, our State is being empowered to raise Villages and Town police. I do not know whether this subsidiary Act is being brought under this Session of the Assam  Re-organisation (Meghalaya) Act 1969. Nothing is  mentioned here, In this  Act, there is no reference made to that. I, therefore, would like to know that this time, why legislation cannot be taken up directly under provision of this Act, I mean the Assam Re-organisation (Meghalaya) Act 1969. I would like to get clarification on this point. With these few words, I resume my seat.

Mr. Speaker :- Will the Minister reply to the discussion.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir. The hon. Member, Shri Akramozzaman has quoted the Chief Minister's Statement the other day that he would  wish that in this State of Meghalaya there should be no requirement of Police. Mr. Speaker, Sir, that  is the wish not only of the Chief Minister. I hope that it is the wish of every members of this House and also the wish of every citizen of Meghalaya but that the does not mean that such is the practical reality of the Meghalaya but that does not mean that such is the practical reality of the  day. We do need the Police to protect us, to be the guardians of life and property and therefore the quotation from the Chief Minister's speech in this context, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is not called for Shri Akramozzaman has raised the question on the necessity of this Subsidiary Force and whether there has been any deterioration of law and order situation in the State that requires the passage of this Bill? My answer to that Mr. Speaker, Sir, is not because law and order situation has deteriorated but if the hon. Member would look in the 6th Schedule, paragraph 3 provision is made and is being realised and accepted by the Constituent Assembly of the need in this Autonomous Hill District for some part sort of force raised by the  local authorities. It is provided that the District Council may raise Villages and Town Police besides the regular Police of the State. The need was already there all along and recognised by the framers of the constitution themselves. The fact that the District Council have not been able to raise it, is not because they do not feel it necessary but because  of their financial difficulties. When the Government of Meghalaya came in to being this subject matter was again entrusted to the Government of Meghalaya empowering it to raise the Village and Town Police which will assist the  work of the regular police. Therefore this is the duty of the State to raise such an agency to aid and assists the regular Police and this is not too early or to soon and in effect this agency should have been raised long ago by the District Councils but for the reason that they are not in a position to do so. We feel it is the duty of this Government to do so. My answer, therefore, that this force from the very meaning of it and from the fact stated that whatever duties it enjoins to the District Council have been there and now to the Meghalaya Government it is just to perform those duties entrusted to the local authorities i.e. the District Councils and now Meghalaya Government and if we go through the functions as stated in Section 6, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I  believe that every member in this House and every citizen of this State will welcome the setting up of the Subsidiary Force. In fact, the other day while discussing the budget, Mr. Kyndiah had referred to this Bill and had particularly stressed about certain functions that may be given to this force which will be very helpful to the people of the State in the matter of entrustment of social work. There is also one factor of the need for maintaining discipline and order in the Border areas, that has arisen lately because of the coming of an additional population of 2 lakhs. We have discussed this matter with the Government of India and the Government of Assam. Government of India felt the need, Government of Assam felt the need and we felt the need for an additional agency in the matter of maintaining of a law and order and discipline. In fact, we have requested the Government of India together with the Government of Assam to give us a additional aid in this matter and the Government of India replied that they will no have be in a position to do so and that the local authorities and the state Government must themselves, raise additional agency of aid or force. So in view of this fact, I hope that the hon. members of this House will agree to the necessity of raising this force whose functions and duties have been enumerated in Section 6,  This will be very helpful to the people of the State.

        Mr. Akramozzaman had also viewed with great apprehension regarding Section 6 (2) that every officer or member shall have the power of to arrest any proclaimed offender or any person who is in his views commits a non-bailable and cognizable offence, he objected to or showed apprehension for the words 'in his views'. Mr. Speaker, Sir, these words, had been taken from the general law of the land, the Criminal Procedure Code Section 59 and if I remember correctly, exactly these are the words not only a member of the police force but an ordinary citizen is empowered with this power to bring o arrest under Section 59 (1) of the Criminal procedure code, any private citizen or any person who, in his views, commits a non-bailable and cognizable offence and handover the person so arrested to the Police officers or in the absence of a Police officer to a person, in the police station. So if Mr. Akramozzaman has any apprehension of this, he may like to suggest to the Parliament or the State Assembly of Assam or whatever it is. In any case, I do not think it is necessary to go in to the details of this. It is very clear that it is very necessary to give this power to a police officer when even a private person in India has been given this very power.

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, about apprehension of delay, Mr. Akramozzaman has raised the question about production of and arrested person before a Magistrate. As it is in this State, in the districts, police stations are very far apart. Suppose some occurrence takes place in Maharram or Langrin Syiemship and the Police  Station is in Cherrapunjee would this would cause more delay. As it is now we have many B.D.O who are Magistrates. Therefore, it will be quicker to produce before the a Magistrate in certain case, than to a Police Station. Whichever is near and quicker the production will be made there.

        Mr. Akramozzaman raised the question whether this force will be a parallel force to the police. Well, Mr. Speaker, Sir definitely it is not so. It is very clear from the name itself that it is a Subsidiary Force and the functions as enumerated in the Bill are very clear. It is not a parallel force and it will be working hand-in-hand with the police to aid and assists the regular police and in every way. It is not and will not be a parallel force.

        Mr. Khonglah had pin pointed the need for the Autonomous State of Meghalaya to have a full functions and powers in the matter of law and order. I think, every hon. member knows, Mr. Speaker, Sir, and every citizen of Meghalaya also knows that we have been discussion and raising this question again and again that it is very  necessary that we the responsible authority and leaders in this areas should also be entrusted with this. However, there are different interpretations on the subject of village and town police. As a matter of fact, even with the village and town police, there is a great deal of functions and control over law and order. Any way, we need not go to in to this and we hope that this Subject of the functions of law and order will come to us very  soon.

        Now, Mr. Khonglah, had said that this "it appears to me that there will be there branches of this force" That is incorrect, we read in Section 6, that it will be the same force which will do the social work, it does nto mean that it will divide the force. The same force will do the job and perform different functions. It is a C.I.D Department but it will do the work of the C.I.D just as an ordinary citizen and give report and  information of the things they know they need no plain clothes. Therefore for your information it is clear that intelligence means news and reports. So these are the functions of the police. It will not be necessary and even amongst the Police there are certain types of officers who are required to take statements. But even then, according to law as it is stands today the records made by the Police officer will be of no use before the Court, it is statement made before the Magistrate which will accepted in the Courts

        The other Questions is whether this Bill does not or does not come within the Villages and Town Police. Provision of our Bill should be within the subjects  within the purview of the State of Meghalaya. Therefore, the hon., Member can have quite a simple conclusion about his matter, it is with in the subjects entrusted to the autonomous State. So with these few words, Mr, Speaker, Sir, I welcome the interest taken and the support given to this Bill. I would request Mr. Zaman to give his full support and also full cooperation to make this Bill a success.

Mr. Speaker :- The discussion is closed and now I put the question before the House. The Question is that the Meghalaya (Subsidiary Force) Bill, 1971 be passed.

(The motion was carried and the Bill passed)


HALF-AN-HOUR DISCUSSION

        There is no other Government Business remaining under item No.3 of today's list of business. Let us pass on to Item No.4 Shri M.N. Swer to raise half-an-hour discussion under Rule 49 of the Assembly Rules arising our of replies to Starred Question No.5 regarding "Appointment of Executive Engineer in Community Development Department".

Shri M.N. Swer :- I am thankful to you for allowing me to move the motion for raising half an hour discussion on the question of the appointment of Executive Engineer in the Community Development Department.

        The question is whether there is a necessity to create the post of Executive Engineer in the Community Development Department. We know that in Assam Where there are not less than a hundred Community Development Blocks, the Government does not deem it necessary to have the post under the Executive Engineer. how then in Meghalaya where we have only  24 Blocks, the Government feel the necessity of having such a high post of the  Executive Engineer? This involves huge expenditure from the public exchequer and without any benefit to our people. In every Block there is an overseer controlled by P.W.D. These overseers prepare necessary schemes for roads, buildings survey and drawing as required age the Block level. From experience it is found that the overseers are quite capable of doing the work at present as far as the Block schemes are concerned. Then, how long the Executive Engineer can effectively manage and supervise the drawing of necessary schemes, plans and estimates etc for the State of Meghalaya? We all know more or less, the schemes for the Blocks should be submitted to the Government at the same time. Similarly, in execution, it is more or less at the same time. Thus, it would be far better and more realistic to entrust supervision of work as far as the matter is concerned, the to the P.W.D. This can be done by making provision in a contingency Form for the supervision work. It is also surprising that when all technical officers are controlled by the parent Department, the Executive Engineer for the Community Development is controlled by the a Director of Community Development, who is not a technical man. How can one feel safe when a non-technical man. A technical man should be controlled by the Chief Engineer. Whether it is practicable for the Executive Engineer, Community Development to is practicable for the Executive Engineer, Community Development to exercise his control over the overseers in the Block who have been deputed and controlled and by the P.W.D? With these few words, Sir, I resume my seat.

Mr. Speaker Anybody else who would like to speak?

Shri Rokendra Dkhar :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, when I listened to the speech of the hon. Member who initiated the discussion, it seems to me that both the necessity of this officer and the justification of filling up this post, came up in this speech and both are justified. The necessity is there and the justification of the Government to fill up this post is also there. I fail to understand the motive, of this half of an hour discussion and I think what we would the hon. Member means, is only to suggest to the Government that  this post should better be controlled by the P.W.D or rather, this Executive Engineer should be controlled and supervised by the P.W.D I think this is correct and the works of numerous schemes in the Blocks also would be properly done. But as it is today, it is understood, that the P.W.D cannot supply any Engineer to the Community Development Department  and if that be the case, it puts the Community Development Department in a very very difficult position. He brings a comparison of the Community Development Blocks in the case of Assam and the Block in the State of Meghalaya. I think it did no come to his that any schemes in the Block Development in the plains of Assam, the overseers of the Block cannot execute any scheme beyond 5,000 rupees. All schemes below Rs.5,000 are being entrusted to the Blocks in the plains of Assam. So it come within the purview of the overseers. The overseers can easily control and supervise such schemes. But Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the Hills I mean in Meghalaya the schemes initiated and done by the Blocks are very very big schemes especially under the schemes of Crash Programme. There are schemes up to Rs.40,000 i.e. one schemes of Rs.40,000. I cannot understand how one officer can supervise and exercise control over such scheme. It may be that the appointment of this particular Executive Engineer is not welcomed by any Member, including myself (loud laughter). I understand the justification and the necessary of this post, it is very very urgently required. To control and supervise the works of the 24 Blocks in the State of Meghalaya, I think more Engineers should be appointed in the Community Development Department. But it is unfortunate that we have enough Engineers in our State and I would offer the same suggestion put forward by the hon. Member who initiated the discussion that the Government should see and consider that the Engineers under the Block should be under the control and supervision of the Chief  Engineer-a technical man and to appoint more Engineers and Assistant Engineers also in this Department and to invite applications from all States. I am of the same view of that the P.W.D and the C.D. should sit and I think together that this post must be placed under the control and supervision o f one. Because it is very surprising to note that when the P.W.D had rejected this man, it is again the very technical department who advised the Minister, C.D for the appoint of this man. It is therefore, very essential but that it should be under the control and supervision of a technical man.

*Shri Johndeng Pohrmen :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in support of the nation moved by Mr. Swer in having a half an hour discussion on the appointment of an Executive Engineer for the C.D I have a few points to raise.

        No.1 - The practicability of having one Executive Engineer for the whole of Meghalaya and if it is not practicable whether it will do with no Executive Engineer for the whole of Meghalaya? From the little experience, we have in the Blocks, I for one find it impracticable to have post of Executive Engineer for the whole of Meghalaya I remember a few years ago, a particular schemes had been discussed approved and passed at the Block and I am talking about one Block and not of 24 Blocks. Mr. Speaker, Sir, that scheme until now has never been executed in time. It so happened that a particular Engineer one Mr. Khera has been appointed as Executive Engineer. But until now, the scheme that we passed the Block has never been executed we were assured that a report will be given, But report has never reached the Block up to this moment. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as rightly pointed out by the mover of the motion that in Assam they have more than 400 C.D. Blocks, I think they are wise in seeing the impracticability of having one Executive Engineer. And that would be really a post of a white elephant without  any benefit to  our people. I take it for granted, that the creation of this post and the appointment of  Executive Engineer in the C.D Department is for the maximum benefit of our people in the Block. But then if that post is not properly utilised, I mean, the functions of the Executive Engineer cannot be really utilised in all practical aspects of the functions, I wonder, what will be the use of having this post. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I may be allowed to point out that it is surprising that the incumbent referred to was of  the rank of S.D.O in the Assam Government. I fail to understand under what procedure, under what basis he has been appointed as Executive Engineer in the Meghalaya Government. That point is to be considered. Whether, it is a proper appointment whether rules have been properly studied and examined whish related to the appointment of the  incumbent. Mr. Speaker, Sir, if it is only for mere filling of the post, and mere trying  somehow to please the incumbent, I think, it is a departure from performing a sacred duty that the Government has towards the people,. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very very serious matter and the House cannot simply overlook this. The House which is the bulwark of public interest of the people, cannot simply shut its eyes to such a glaring irregularity and more so, the question of desirability of having this point at all in view of the difficulties and practical aspects that we see and find with the Overseers in the Blocks of course, where there is an Overseer. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in this connection, I may point out that in some Blocks we have 2 overseers and in certain Blocks there is only one Overseers.. ... ... .... ... ... . 

Mr. Speaker :- That is a separate issue.

Shri Johndeng Pohrmen :- I presume, the overseer would take no steps to look after the schemes and the works of particular Overseers in so far as certain Blocks are concerned. So I agree with the mover of the motion that at present the works that the overseers cannot be do due to some limitations, can be  entrusted with the Executive Engineer of the P.W.D so that proper controlling and practical utility in the discharge of their functions can be attained.

Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, .. ... ... ... .. ... ... .. 

Mr. Speaker :- You have got only 5 minutes, Because I shall provide 10 minutes for Minister's reply.

Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, then I shall be very brief. Now reading between the lines, I feel that the dispute is on the target of incumbency rather than on the principle of creation of the post. In so far as I am concerned, I beg to express difference with the initiator of the discussion that the Overseers are quite capable in the C.D Blocks, On many occasions there are reports about the inadequacy and ineffectiveness of the Overseers. Most of the plans have misfired because of that. Theoretically it is a fact, that the estimates of certain value have had to get the technical approval of the P.W.D or the Executive Engineer, P.W.D in fact, what we see in practice is that the estimates do not get the supervision of the Executive Engineer and as a  result of which we find that the estimates and schemes go away. That is what I want to say. Secondly, I do not like to make any comparison between Meghalaya and the Plaint districts. Because, there I am given to understand that the work having the value of estimate above Rs.5,000 the work is done directly by the P.W.D under the direct control and supervision of the executive Engineer. This is not the case in Meghalaya in view of the fact that implementation of the rural scheme of employment in which about 25 lakhs and  of rupees have been allotted. We have to review it. As mentioned by the hon. Member Shri Rokendro Dkhar, that there is are schemes worth Rs.20,000 or Rs.80,000. So it is  necessary that a competent technical hand should be engaged to as not only to get the technical approval that but also to supervise various schemes and projects. Therefore, in so far as the creation of the post is concerned, I am one with the hon. Members and we do not disagree. Regarding the incumbent in the post it is a separate mater altogether. I heard the other day, if I heard correctly, I think the Minister of Community Development has said that the Chief Engineer, P.W.D Meghalaya has given the O.K. for appointing the present incumbent in the post of Executive Engineer although he is a controversial figure. Whatever discussion we have, we must be very objective. My suggestion is that it would be have been good that we had  given draw n the personnel of the  technical hand from the P.W.D of Meghalaya instead of bringing directly from Assam. This is a flaw, This should be have been done every where. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, my own feelings is that in view of the work-load of the C.D. Department, in view of the work load of the Crash Programme of the Rural Development what is needed is a complement of staff in order to deal with all programmes and schemes rather than singling out one particular person. I also feel that it is necessary that we be very careful in taking officers. So far as I know, I think the policy of the Government is that when they take an officer, they take him as he is. if I am correct, the  present incumbent was holding the rank of Executive Engineer in Assam. Here, in the same rank he has come. So there is no question of any discrepancy. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, while appreciating that we have had this opportunity to discuss this matter which is the hottest question of the Session, it is good that we see things in their proper perspective and be objective about it. With these few observation, I resume my seat.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Community Development) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the necessity of the post, the main question raised by the mover of the discussion, I would like to  clarify the position between the practice in Assam now and what is obtaining the position the practice in Assam now and what is obtaining in Meghalaya, with the introduction of the Panchayat Act in Assam, the Rural Panchayat, has been merged into the Panchayat Act and we have this system, viz., Muhkuma Parishad at the Sub divisional level (2) The Anchalik Panchayat at the Block Level and (3) The Gaon Panchayat at the village level. The system of implementing works has taken a change from the procedure hitherto followed by the Community Project Department. With the abolition of the post of the Executive Engineers in the Panchayat, the Government have adopted a new method by meads of which the Overseers in the Blocks and prepared the schemes of various works in consultation with the District Technical Heads of Department. For example, for a Fishery Department the Overseers prepare the estimates in consultation with the Superintendent of Fisheries and the Technical head gives the technical approval to the schemes before they are implemented without referring such case to the P.W.D for technical approval. In the the matter of bund, dong, and channels  under the Agriculture Department, the Overseer prepares the schemes in consultation with the Assistant Engineer and also with the District Agricultural Officer who accords technical approval of the schemes before they are implemented. In all cases the technical heads of Department supervise the works, of the Overseers for their most respective  fund in the Blocks. In the of matter communication cases, where such work is necessary which is very few and far between the technical approval is obtained from the local, Executive Engineers before implementing.

        Now in the hill  areas on account of the bigger quantity of funds allotted to the Blocks, a large, number of schemes costing more than Rs.5000/- each are taken up. Overseers can be left to undertake schemes of Rs.5000/- without supervision and when such schemes are few in number. It is just not possible to take the same risks when schemes sanctioned cost more than Rs.5000 each.

        As the Executive Engineer can sanction works up to Rs.50.000/- his coming under supervision of the Chief Engineer also does not arise. The Community Development does not have works costing more than Rs.50,000/- each except rarely. Neither are isolated posts of Executive Engineer in other Departments like Agriculture, etc. controlled by the Chief Engineer. Such posts are created to ensure proper supervision of works in such Departments.

        Now there are 24 Blocks in Meghalaya. Most of them are in Stage II C.D. and T.D and Stage III. T.D - T.D means Tribal Development.

        The schematic pattern under Stage II C.D and T.D is rupees one lakh per Block per year and Stage III Rupees two lakhs per Block per year. There are in addition to the above, the Crash Employment Programmes at the rate of Rupees 25 lakhs for the whole State per year during the Fourth Five Year Plan and also the Budget under Rural Development Works amounting to Rupees 5 lakhs.

        There are many works like roads, bridges, to be constructed which require proper technical supervision. In addition to the Community Development Programme, the Executive Engineer will also scrutinise estimates of works undertaken by the Co-operation and out Subordinate Departments. A number of Blocks today we are without  to Subordinate Engineers. In such cases, the Executive Engineer head quarters, site and construction of Block headquarters' buildings  also required the assistance of a higher technical officer. The Executive Engineers of P.W.D Meghalaya are not in a position to help the B.D.O's the because of their own heavy works. That is what has been told.

        Now, in the circular issued by the Government of Assam which directs the heads of department to inspect the Blocks to see the work of their respective officers, the Chief Engineer has been excluded or not included in the inspection of the respective works, Except in  matters of posting, transfer and granting of leave, the Block extension Officers come under the direct control of the B.D.O who is a leader of the team. The Executive Engineers of the P.W.D do not check or super wise the work of the Block level Subordinate Engineers.

        Experience show the some of the works, particularly in the alignment of roads which are done by Subordinate Engineers alone, are not satisfactory and it amounts to a waste of public fund. To remove this defect in the present system, the Executive Engineer, Community Development will also assist the Subordinate Engineers in this regard.

        Now, the P.W.D is not generally used to execute works with public participation. They do not execute works through local Committees P.W.D works are done through contractors and so on, whereas under the Community Development execution of work is done through local committees and it is a different system altogether. That is why perhaps the P.W.D was not made to control these works. It was meant that only small works would be undertaken at the Block level. Now we find in our hills that considerable amount of work is entrusted to the Blocks and therefore it is essential that proper supervisions is given to the Overseers who are at the Block level.

        Now, the mover, Mr. Swer, said from experience that Overseers are quite capable, I am very happy that we have that experience. But we are also hearing other experiences. Perhaps all the 24 Blocks have not been inspected by the member concerned nor have I inspected all the Blocks. But we have definite information from a number of people that in certain cases the work done by the Overseers is not technically up to the mark and that is why, to tone up the administration, appointment of a supervising officer of Executive Engineer's rank was found necessary, as it was in, the past, in the Assam Government, the Executive Engineer, Hills. It is true that the question was raised whether one Executive Engineer could supervise the whole State and it has been suggested that it will be more realistic to give supervision works to the P.W.D . As I said, there are certain limitations and there are certain methods we may reexamine the matter in consultation with P.W.D again. But the fact is that uptil now the Committee Development had not been under the inspection of the Chief Engineer.

        The question whether it is practical for one Engineer to supervise the whole of Meghalaya is after. At the same time, it is argued that there should be no Engineer. Well, it is better to have one Engineer than none.....(Laughter .......).  When we he said that it is  in a practical to have only one I agree with it but because of limitation of fund and limitation of personnel it is difficult to get even one. It is better to have one who with advise the Director in administration of the work entrusted to the Community Development rather than to the have none at all, because uptil now there have been many cases or defective design and defective implementation and there have been cases where bridges have been washed away because of defective design and this is one of the things that we have to try to improve.

        Regarding the particular scheme approved by a particular Block Development Committee, uptil now no report was received but I shall have it enquired in to. But may, I say in general that all the schemes approved by the Block Development Committee cannot be implemented because of shortage of fund. Each Block has certain funds and we do not necessarily implement all the schemes put up by the B.D.Cs but three are certain schemes for certain Blocks and they are given their respective shares.

        Now, Mr. Johndeng Pohrmen ahs raised a question of regularity or irregularity of the appointment. As far as my information goes the appointment was made quite regularly. The post was filled up after consulting the Personnel Department, and as has been already mentioned by me in answer to the question, so far as the particular incumbent is concerned after some enquiries his appointment was made and he came at his existing salary from the Assam Government. There are no irregularities in his appointment. Naturally the House cannot condone nor the Minister nor the Government can condone the irregularities in appointment. But appointment has not been made irregularly. So summing up Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would request the Members to understand the position vis-a-vis Assam where a different pattern has been developed. Here we have no Panchayat system in the Hills a number of works are to be done over and above Rs.5000, it is therefore essential that the Community Development Department have an Executive Engineer. In the Agriculture Department as I have already said, we have an Executive Engineer. He does not come under the Chief Engineer because of the nature of work, I mean the works that has to be entrusted. But later, we may improve the system we shall have to examine, as I have already said earlier, if the Public Works Department is prepared to undertake the responsibility. But that is to be discussed and examined the at the Government level and at officer's level before we finally change the pattern or system which is a temporary one for a period of one year. I think that I have answered most of the questions which I could note down and give a gist regarding this particular appointment.


PROROGATION

Mr. Speaker :- Now the discussion is closed. Before the House is prorogue, I would like to express my thanks once again to each and every hon. Member for his kind cooperation in the deliberations of the House from the very beginning of the sitting to the end. I am really very happy that we can successfully transact all business as printed and circulated in the calendar. I hope if this tempo is going on and if this spirit of give and take continues, the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly will be able to stand on a very high foundation and it will rise above petty politics inside the House and I am confident that hence forward all other Legislative Assemblies in other parts of the country may look upon Meghalaya Legislative Assembly as a Model, Assembly, So I now read the Prorogation order of the Governor.

"Raj Bhavan

Shillong, the 28th June, 1971-

ORDER

            In exercise of the powers conferred by clause (a) of Sub-Section (2) of Section 19 of the Assam Re - organisation (Meghalaya) Act, 1969, I Braj Kumar Nehru, Governor of Assam exercising my functions as Governor in relation to Meghalaya hereby prorogue the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly at the conclusion of its sitting on the 29th June, 1971.

Sd/- B.K  NEHRU,

Governor of Assam,".

(The house was then prorogued)

N.C HANDQUE,

Dated Shillong :

Secretary,

the 29th June, 1971.

Meghalaya Legislative Assembly.

*****