Proceeding of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly assembled at 10 a.m. on Tuesday, the 4th July 1972 in the Assembly Chamber, Shillong with the Speaker in the Chair. 

 

Mr. Speaker : Let us begin with starred question. 

STARRED QUESTION

(To which oral replies were given)

Starred Question 22 ( Not put' Member being absent )

       "       "          23 ( Not put' Member being absent )

       "       "          24 ( Not put' Member being absent )

Incident in Mawkhar Main Road

Shri Upstar Kharbuli asked :

25. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

(a) Whether Government is aware of the incident that took place in Mawkhar Main Road near the Government High School at about 11 a.m. on the 12th June, 1972 in which one Private Jeep was burnt?

(b) Is it a fact that the staff as well as the students of the Government High School were involved in the incident?

(c) If so, what action Government propose to take against those persons?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma ( Chief Minister ) replied. 

25.

(a) - Yes. 

(b) & (c) - The matter is under investigation. 

Shri Upstar Kharbuli ( Malki ) : Mr. Speaker, sir, is it a fact that some students were arrested by the police on that day?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma ( Chief Minister ) : No arrest was made on that day. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem ( Mynso- Raliang S.T. ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, what was the reason for that sad incident?

Mr. Speaker : The matter is under investigation; how can the Government tell you now?

Shri Humphrey Hadem : There might have been some pirma face cases. 

Mr. Speaker : The matter is still under investigation 

Starred Question 

No.26 ( Not put' Member being absent )

   "              "

No.27 ( Not put' Member being absent) 

Inspector and Controller of Weights and Measures.

Shri Stanlington David Khongwir asked :

28. Will the Minister in- charge of Agriculture be pleased to state- 

(a) The number  of Inspector of Weights and Measures in each or the three Districts?

(b) Whether it is a fact that there is only one Assistant Controller of Weights and Measures in the State?

(c) If so, what are his powers and functions?

(d) Are Government aware that inspection of all hats/markets in the  Khasi Hills by the Department of Weights and Measures has not been done. 

(e) If so, the reasons thereof ?

(f) Are Government aware that various Government Department have not switched over to the Standard of Weight and Measures?

(g) If so, what steps Government propose to take?

(h) Is it a fact that a Spring Balance of 100 kg. capacity is being sold at a rate of which ranges from Rs. 135 to Rs.180?

Shri Edwingson Bareh ( Minister, Agriculture, etc ) replied :

28.

(a) - There is only one trained Inspector of Weight, and Measure' in- charge for each District. 

(b) - Yes,

(c) - Duties of the Assistant Controller of Weight, and Measures, a per Rule 21 of the Weights and Measures Rule, are as follows :-

(i)

Supervision of all matters relating to the verification and stamping work of the Inspectors.

(ii)

Attending to the technical difficulties of the Inspectors in their day to day routine work. 

(iii)

Inspection of the coffees of the Inspectors and scrutiny of the accounts. 

(iv)

Scrutiny of all reports and returns of the Inspectors for onward submission to the Controller, 

(v)

Scrutiny of all prosecution cases, 

(vi)

Scrutiny of all tour programmes of Inspectors, 

(vii)

replying to the various complaints received from the public in regards to the enforcement of the Acts,

(viii)

replying to the correspondence of the licences, traders, etc., in the execution of law, 

(ix)

inspection of the work of the licenced manufacturers, dealer and repairers of Weights and Measures, etc.,

(x)

making necessary arrangement for the supply of stamps and stamping materials to the Inspectors, 

(xi)

submission of reports and returns prescribe in the rules or required by the Controller,

(xii)

safe and proper custody of the standards and other equipments entrusted to his charges, 

(xiii)

maintenance of the zonal laboratory and the laboratory equipments under his charge,

(xiv)

hearing of appeals against the decision of an Inspector as prescribed  in the Act,

(xv)

any other duty, which may be allotted to him by the Controller from time to time. 

        Besides, the above prescribed duties, the Assistant Controller of Weights and Measures, Meghalaya in absence of a full fledged Controller is being delegated with more financial power generally delegated only to the Controller in the other States. But he cannot perform the duties of the Controller under the Acts and Rules. 

(d) - Yes.        

(e) - Due to shortage of staff and transport difficulties.    

(f) - No, the Government is not aware of the fact.         

(g)  Does not arise

(h) - Yes, Spring Balance, of 100kg. Capacity are being sold by the licensed dealers in  open market at a different rate which may range form Rs. 135 to Rs. 180 according to qualities of the Spring Balance. 

Shri S.D. Khongwir ( Mawlai S.T. ) : Whether the Government propose to appoint more staff?

Shri E. Bareh ( Minister, Agriculture ) : The matter is under consideration of the Government. 

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Whether the Government is aware that most of the Government officers in their radio talks are still using the old system of Weight, and Measures. 

Mr. Speaker : The all India Radio is under the control of the Ministry Information and Broadcasting, Government of India.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Though the A.I.R. is under the control of Government of India, the radio talks are given by the officers of the State Government.

Shri Williamson A. Sangma ( Chief Minister ) : In fact whatever  talks are to be made by the Government they are being scrutinised by the A.I.R. and they are using the old system of Weights and Measurements.  

Mr. Speaker : Let us come to Unstarred questions. 

UNSTARRED QUESTIONS

( To which replies were placed on the table )

State Planning Board.

Shri Humphrey Hadem asked :

41. Will the Minister in- charge of Planning be pleased to state-

(a) Whether it is a fact that the " State Planning Board" has been constituted by Government ? 

(b) If so, what are the names of the members of the Board?

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister-in-charge of Planning : replied.

41.

(a)- No

(b)- Does not arise in view of the reply to (a) above.

State Planning Advisory Board

Shri Stanling David Khongwir asked :

42.  Will the Minister- in- charge, Planning be pleased to state-

(a) Whether it is a fact that Government  have constituted the State Planning Advisory Board?

(b) How many times the said Board has met ?

(c) Is it a fact that the said Board met on 25th July 1970?

(d) If so, what are the recommendations on Planning that have been evolved by the Board?

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh ( Minister in-charge of Planning ) replied :

42.

(a)- Yes.

(b) - Twice.

(c)- The Board met in its first meeting on 24th and 25th July 1970.

(d)- The summary record of discussions of the first meeting of the State Planning Advisory Board is placed on the Table of the House such Board?

Shri Humphrey Hadem : What are the names of the members of such Board?

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh ( Minister -in- charge of Planning ) : The names were published by Gazette notification, dated the 13th July 1971. However, I shall read out those names :-

1.

Chief Minister, Meghalaya. 

2.

Secretary to the Government of Meghalaya, Finance and Planning Department. 

3.

All members of the State Planning Committee. 

4.

All members of the State Development Board. 

5.

C.E.M. District Council, Khasi Hills. 

6.

C.E.M. District Council, Garo Hills. 

7.

C.E.M. District Council, Jowai.

8.

E.M. I/C. Development of Khasi Hills District Council. 

9.

E.M. I/C Development of Garo Hills District Council. 

10.

E.M. I/C Development of Jowai District Council.

11.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah M.L.A.

12. 

Fr. A. Joseph, Principal, St. Anthony's College, Shillong. 

13.

Swami Gokulanada, Secretary Ramakrishna Mission, Cherrapunjee. 

14. 

Rev. B.M. Pugh. 

15. 

Dr. E. C. Syngkon.

16.

Shri Singjan Sangma, M.L.A.

17.

Shri S.J. Duncan.

18.

Shri Kistobin Rymbai.

19.

Shri Radhes Shyam Goenka.

20.

Shri Horen Jones. 

21.

Shri M.N. Swer, M.L.A. 

22.

Shri Plan Singh K. Marak, M.L.A

23.

Shri Nimosh Sangma, M.L.A.

24.

Shri Akramozamman, M.L.A.

25. 

Shri N. Ksih, M.D.C.

26.

Shri S. Shylla, M.D.C.

27.

Professor C. Wolflang. 

28.

Shri Sitey Rana.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw  S.T. ) : May I ask, 

Mr. Speaker : Sir, whether the Government is prepared to give us the reasons as to why Shri Radhesyam Goenka was selected ?

Mr. Speaker : No personal question can be brought here. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : But he is one of the members. 

Mr. Speaker : You are very much fond of asking supplementaries to supplementaries. 

Water Supply for Dienglieng Constituency

Shri Besterson Kharkongor asked :

43. Will the Minister- in- charge, Public Health Engineering, be pleased to state-

(a)

Whether Government is aware that the people of the villages comprising the Dienglieng Constituency are suffering from want of proper supply of drinking water?

(b)

If so, whether Government proposes to take up a scheme for supply of drinking water for these villages?

(c)

If so, when?

(d)

If not, why ?

Shri Grohonsing Marak (Minister, Public, Health Engineering, etc.) replied :

43.

(a) & (b)- There are 41 villages under Dienglieng Constituency. So far only one petition for water supply scheme was received from the public of Jongsha village under Constituency. Sanction to the Survey estimate of the water supply in this village has already been accorded. The scheme will be taken up subject to availability of funds. 

(c)- Does not arise. 

(d)- Does not arise.

Shri Besterson Kharkongor (Dienglieng S.T. ) : Sir, in view of the hardship of the people whether the Government is prepared to take up this scheme soon?

Mr. Speaker : Government has already replied that sanction to the survey estimate of the water supply in this village has already been accorded.

Shri Besterson Kharkongor : I want to know when the scheme will be taken up?

Shri Grohonsing A. Marak [Minister of State, P.W.D. (P.H.E.)] : It will depend on the availability of funds and also availability of water sources. 

Shri Besterson Kharkongor : Whether Government is aware that survey has been made for the supply of drinking water at Lynshing?

Shri Grohonsing A. Marak [ Minister of State, P.W.D. (P.H.E.) ] : I want notice. 

Special Scheme for the people living in the Border Areas

Shri Nimosh Sangma asked :

44. Will the Minister- in- charge of Relief and Rehabilitation be pleased to state-

(a)

Whether the Government propose to take up any special schemes for the economic uplift of the people living in the border areas?

(b)

If so, what are the proposed schemes?

(c)

When are these schemes going to be implemented?

Shri Grohonsing A. Marak (Minister of State, Border Areas ) replied :

44.

(a) - Yes.     

(b) & (c)- A note is placed on the Table of the House. 

Shri Upstar Kharbuli ( Malki ) : Is it a fact that a separate Department for the border areas has been created?

Mr. Speaker : That is a new question. 

Directorate of Economics and Statistics. 

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh asked :

45. Will the Minister -in- charge of Planning, etc., be pleased to state-

(a)

Whether it is a fact that the present Directorate of Economics and Statistic, Government of Meghalaya, is a mere skeleton and it is in-charge by one junior officer in the rank of Research Officer?

(b)

If, so, when the full scale Directorate of Economics and Statistics will be created?

(c)

The reasons for not creating the full scale Directorate of Economics and Statistics till now?

(d)

When the District Statistical office will be opened at Jowai of Jaintia Hills District?

(e)

Whether it is a fact that the District Statistical Officer's office and conducting various types of survey?

(f)

What are those surveys and for what purposes they are conducted?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh ( Minister, Planning, etc. ) replied : 

45.

(a)

The Directorate of Economics and Statistics, Meghalaya, is a present being run by a skeleton staff. It is not a fact that a Research Officer is in-charge of the Directorate. 

(b)

A full scale Directorate of Economics and Statistics has been created. However, it has not been possible to fill up all the sanctioned posts due to non-availability of qualified and experienced staff. 

(c)

Does not arise in view of reply to (b) above. 

(d)

The matter is under consideration of the Government.

(e)

The District Statistical offices are collecting data at the district level with regard to certain surveys. 

(f)

(i) National Sample Survey, at the instance of Government of India. 

(ii) Crop estimation survey, to estimate the production of selected food and non-food crops and their average yield per hectare.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh ( Umroi S.T. ) : Sir, when the qualified and experienced staff is expected to be made available.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Planning, etc.) : When they will be available, they will be made available.

Distribution of Bonemeal in Jaintia Hills

Shri Humphrey Hadem asked :

46. Will the Minister-in-charge of Agriculture be pleased to state- 

(a) When was the date of the commencement of the distribution of bonemeal in the Jaintia Hills for 1972-73?

(b) Whether any subsidy was borne by the Government?

(c) If so, for what purpose?

(d) What is the cost of the bonemeal per bag of 37 Kg. at Jowai?

(e) What is the cost of the same quantity at Raliang, Mynso, Kyndongtuber and Thadmuthlong respectively?

(f) To whom and through whom the demand of requirements should be made?

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) replied:

46

(a) - 29th April, 1972.

(b) - Yes

(c)- To help the cultivators and promote use of manure and fertilizers for greater production.

(d) - Rs..22 per 37 Kg. is the cost of bonemeal at Jowai.

(e) - There are no centres at Raliang, Mynso, Kyndongtuber and Thadmuthlong.

(f) - To the Agriculture Department, Jowai.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Sir, in view of reply to 46(b), is the above subsidy meant for the transport charges?

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- It is meant for the transport subsidy to lower down the price of the bonemeal.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Sir, in 46(e), whether the cost price of bonemeal outside Jowai is higher that the cost price at Jowai because of the transport charges from Jowai to such other places?

Mr. Speaker :- That is a new question. The Minister has already replied that there are no centres in those places.

Shri H.E. Pohshna (Nongtalang S.T.) :- Why the cost of bonemeal is different in the interior areas from that of Jowai?

Mr. Speaker :- That is a hypothetical question.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Can we take it that the same price will be at Jowai and in the interior areas?

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- Sir, I do not know the price in the interior areas. I only know the price fixed at the centre.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Whether the price of bonemeal in the interior areas is at the liberty of the agents to fix?

Mr. Speaker :- That is the same question in a different language.

Now, unstarred question No.47.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Sir, only one more supplementary to unstarred question 46?

Mr. Speaker :- No, we have passed on to unstarred question No.47.

Field Management Committee

Shri Humphrey Hadem asked :

47. Will the Minister-in-charge of Agriculture be pleased to state- 

 (a) Whether Tow Field Management Committees can be formed for the same area of cultivation?

(b) If not, why not?

(c) Whether the owner of a particular field lying within the area of one Field Management Committee can transfer his membership for that same plot to another Field Management Committee?

(d) If so, how is it possible?

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Agriculture)  replied :

(a) - No. 

(b) - It will create disunity and hamper promotion of agriculture.

(c) - No.

(d) - Does not arise.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Sir, under 47(b), whether it is a fact that the area of each Field Management Committee as signified in (b) above is being registered?

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- Yes, Sir.

Fruit Preservation Factory in Baghmara

Shri Nimosh Sangma asked :

48. Will the Minister-in-charge of Industries be pleased to state-

(a) What is the progress of Fruit Preservation Factory in Baghmara?

(b) What is the amount so far been spent for the said Fruit Preservation Factory?

(c) Who is running the said Fruit Preservation Factory?

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister-in-charge, Agriculture)  replied :

48.

(a) - Private party is interested to set up a fruit preservation unit at Baghmara. It is learnt that a plot of land has been made available for this purpose by the local people.

(b) - Does not arise.

(c) - The unit is yet to be set up.

Development of Fisheries

Shri Edward Kurbah asked:

49. Will the Minister-in-charge of Fisheries be pleased to state -

(a) Whether fishery is to be developed only within the urban areas or in the rural areas also ?

(b) If fishery is to be extended to the rural areas, will the Government extend financial help to the persons to complete the construction of the ponds for the said purpose ?

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister-in-charge, Agriculture) replied :

49.

(a) Fishery will be developed in both urban and rural areas.

(b) - Yes.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Sir may we know the basis on which this aid is given in the rural areas in the Fishery Department, in view of the fact that at one time there was an offer to subsidise about 60-70 per cent of the actual amount of money put in?

Mr. Speaker :- That is not a question, it is an information.

Prof M.N. Majaw :- Whether there is any percentage on any of them?

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agricultural) :- The subsidy is granted at the rate of Rs.750 per acre or 50 per cent of the total expenditure after construction whichever is less subject to the maximum of Rs.1,500 for an individual project and Rs.10,000 for project taken up on combined effort like co-operation community bunds, etc.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- In view of the Minister's statement just now is it a fact that grants have been given to the extent of 400/500 rupees but sometimes much larger sums have been invested.

Mr. Speaker :- That is another way of giving information. There should be no ifs and buts in asking questions.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Whether Government is aware of the fact that there are many cases where much smaller sums were given were utilised for purposes other than the purpose for which they were granted?

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- As far as Fishery schemes are concerned, I have given the rate given to me by the Fishery Department. But there are fishery schemes which were implemented by the Blocks and in the blocks we have little fund. There may be 300/400 project but as far as the rate is concerned, what I gave is from the Fishery Department.

Shri B.B. Shallam (Jowai S.T.) :- Is it a fact that a fishery of the Kashmiri type was constructed there?

Mr. Speaker :- That is a new question.

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- Whether the aid is given before construction or after construction?

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- The amount is paid after completion of the work or after 80 per cent of the work has been done.

Disbursement of Grants under Fishery Development Programme

Shri D.D. Lapang  asked :

50.

Will the Minister-in-charge Fisheries be pleased to state the amount of grants disbursed under Fishery Development Programme and whether such incentive yield any visible dividend?

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Agriculture)  replied :

50.

No grant was disbursed under Fishery Development Programme. However, the Government provides subsidy for the purpose.

      It is too early to assess the results these incentives have yielded. 

Shri D.D. Lapang (Nongpoh S.T.) :- Whether Government is prepared to extend financial help to the people in the form of loan?

Mr. Speaker :- That is a new question.

Shri D.D. Lapang :- Whether Government is giving financial help to the people on loan as part of the subsidy?

Mr. Speaker :- In the main question you have asked only about the grant.

Loan Advisory Board.

Shri Nimosh Sangma: asked :

51. Will the Minister-in-charge of Industries be pleased to state -

(a) Whether Loan Advisory Board has been constituted in Meghalaya State?

(b) If so, how many official members and non-official members have been taken from Garo Hills?

(c) Whether all the members of the board have been officially informed.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister of Industries) replied :

51.

(a) - Yes. It was constituted in December, 1970.

(b) Official members Nil. - 

Non-official Four. -

(c) Yes.

Shri Maham Singh (Mawprem) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know what is the term of office of this Loan Advisory Board?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols-Roy :- I want notice for that.

Shri Enowell Pohshna :- May we know the names of the members of the Loan Advisory Board constituted in Meghalaya State?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Industries) :- The names of the members -

Secretary, Industries. 

....

....

....

Chairman.

Joint Director, Industries

....

....

....

Member-Secretary.

Secretary, Finance or his representative

....

...

....

Member.

Managing Director, Financial Corporation

...

...

....

Member.

Managing Director, Co-operative Apex Bank, Shillong (now it is Meghalaya Cooperative Apex Bank).

....

....

....

Member.

Agent, State Bank of India .... .... .... Member

Deputy Director, Sericulture and Weaving

Member.

Shri Singjan Sangma

...

....

...

Member.

Shri Arbinstone Sangma

....

....

Member.

Shri Witherson Momin

.....

....

....

Member.

Shri Darwin D. Pugh

.....

....

....

Member.

Shri A.B. Diengdoh

......

......

....

Member.

Shri John Deng Pohrmen

......

......

....

Member.

Shri .........Sangma

......

......

....

Member.

Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah

......

......

....

Member.

Shri G. Giri

......

......

....

Member.

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang :- May we know the tenure of this Board?

Mr. Speaker :- That question was already replied.

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang :- Some official members are also there but here in the reply, the number of official members shown is nil.

Mr. Speaker :- The names of official members are for Garo Hills. Let us pass on to unstarred question No.52.

Air-port, Railways and All-India Radio Station in Garo Hills.

Shri Choronsing Sangma  asked :

52, Will the Minister of Transport be pleased to state -

(a) Whether Government is aware that the Government of India has proposed to construct Air-port, Railways and All-India Radio Station in Garo Hills?

(b) If so, where and when?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Transport)  replied:

52.

(a) - No.

(b) - Does not arise.

Shillong-Jowai Route and Shillong-Tamabil Route

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna asked :

53. Will the Minister-in-charge, Transport be pleased to state -

(a) Whether Government is aware that large number of passengers on the Shillong-Jowai route and the Shillong-Tamabil route are always left out due to insufficient number of buses plying by the Assam Road Transport Corporation on these routes?

(b) Whether Government is also aware of the bad conditions of the buses plying on these two routes?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Transport) replied: 

54. Will the Minister-in-charge of Jail be pleased to state -

(a) The number of persons in the lock-up of the Shillong Jail?

(b) How many of them are convicted criminals and how many are under-trial prisoners?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister)  replied:

(a) There is no 'Lock-up' in the Shillong Jail. The total number of inmates of the said Jail as on 28th June 1972 was 272 excluding non-criminal lunatics.

(b) Of those 40 are convicts and 232 are under-trial prisoners.

Prof. Alexander Warjri (Mawkhar S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the fact that a good number of under-trial prisoners have been detained for a number of years may I know, if the Government has taken steps to see to the immediate disposal of the cases.

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- We have already issued instructions that the cases will be disposed of as early as possible without any undue delay.

Mr. Speaker :- Unstarred Question No.55.

Non-using of Meter by Taxis Drivers

Shri D.N. Joshi  asked :

55. Will the Minister-in-charge, Transport be pleased to state -

(a) Whether the Government is aware that no Taxi driver uses meter under the plea that it is not working?

(b) If so, what steps Government propose to take steps to make the meters effective and also make the Taxi drivers use it?

(c) If not, why not?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Transport)  replied :

55.

(a) - Occasional complaints have been received.

(b) - Cases are taken up against defaulters. 

(c) - Does not arise.

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang :- May we know if the Government has any arrangement for repairing the meters in the State?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Transport) :- The Government has no arrangement to repair the meters. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- Since Government has no arrangement for repair of the meters in the State, is it just to punish these people who are running the meters?

Mr. Speaker :- That is argumentative.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Whether the Government is prepared to fix the rates of taxi fare in Shillong?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Transport) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question of fixing the rates does not arise when the rates have already been fixed as far as the meter is concerned and the Government is examining various complaints how to tackle this problems. We have recently taken over the transport machinery and we shall be looking into this matter regarding the need of having a repairing workshop at a suitable place nearer than Calcutta for repairing the meters but at the moment the rates should be fixed according to the meter.

 Laying of Reports/Statement

Mr. Speaker :- Let us pass on to Item No.2. The Minister-in-charge of Electricity to lay before the House, the Annual financial Statement for the year 1971-72 of the Assam State Electricity Board?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Power) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I may be permitted for the benefit of the Members, I would read out the position dealing with Meghalaya which are given in a note in a gist form-

        The Assam State Electricity Board is now functioning as a common Board for the States of Assam, Meghalaya and Union Territory of Mizoram.

        The Board finances its capital expenditure from three sources namely, loan received from the respective Government, open market borrowings including borrowings from financial institutions and internal resources.

        The Annual Financial Statement of the Board for the year 1972-73 was placed before the Consultative Councils and their approval was obtained on 28th February, 1972.

        In accordance with Section 61(3) of the Electricity (Supply) Act, 1948, the Annual Financial Statement of the Board for the year 1972-73 which also includes revised statement for 1971-72, is required to be laid before the State Legislature for discussion.

        In the Annual Financial Statement, the proposed receipts, and expenditure on capital outlay for both plan and non-plan schemes relating to the Government of Meghalaya were shown as follows :-

1971-72

(Rupees in lakhs)

revised

1972-73

 I. Plan Schemes

 A. Receipts

1. Loan from State Government

18.00

20.00

2. Market borrowings/Internal resources.

13.00

18.00

Total

31.00

38.00

B. Expenditure

1. Transmission Lines (including sub-station)

8.50

....

2. Distribution system (including sub-station)

22.50

38.00

Total

31.00

38.00

II. Non-Plan Schemes

A. Receipts

1. Loan from the Rural Electrification Corporation.

4.91

4.81

Total

4.91

4.81

B. Expenditure

1. Distribution system (including sub-station)

4.91

4.81

Total

4.91

4.81

        The Government of Meghalaya has approved an Annual Plan in respect of rural electrification for a total outlay of Rs.35.00 lakhs of which Rs.15.00 lakhs has been provided in the Meghalaya Plan budget and the balance of Rs.20.00 lakhs has been proposed to be contributed by the Assam State Electricity Board by obtaining loans from the Life Insurance Corporation to meet expenditure on approved annual Plan during 1972-73.

        The list of schemes of the approve Annual Plan for the year 1972-73 and the allocation against each are as follows:-

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are 18 times for electrification of villages under Meghalaya. Item No.1 - 132 Kv. Shillong-Cherrapunji-0.50 lakh and there are a large number of villages which are to be electrified which I do not need to read out. The total allocation for Khasi and Jaintia Hills is 24.50 lakhs.

 Garo Hills-

1. 33. Kv. line from Nangalbibra to Simsanggiri

1.00

2. 33 Kv. line from Nangalbibra to Siju and electrification of Baghmara.

3.00

3. Electrification of Dalu

4.00

4. Normal Development.

2.50

GRAND TOTAL

35.00

        The physical and financial activities and achievement at the end of 1971-72 and for 1972-73 of the Assam State Electricity Board in the 'Power, Sector of Meghalaya mainly confined in construction of H.T. and L.T. line, erection of distribution sub-stations, electrification of villages and energisation of pump sets.

        A brief review of the position of various schemes and works in hand is given below :-

        1. The construction of 132 Kv. Shillong-Cherrapunjee line is almost complete.

        HT and LT lines were extended to the various parts of the State and 9 (nine) villages electrified during 1971-72. The progress of work during the year had, however, not been upto the expectation mainly due to transport bottleneck in procuring materials from outside.

        A provision of Rs.31.00 lakhs has been made in the revised budget of the Assam State Electricity Board for 1971-72.

        2. In the current financial year, the Board proposed to complete the items of work-in-progress carried over from last year and also to electrify 38 new villages.

        The total allocation in the budget on the basis of proposed annual Plan for 1972-73 was made for Rs.33.00 lakhs. The Government of Meghalaya has, however, approved an Annual Plan of Rs.35.00 lakhs only for the year.

        3. The Assam State Electricity Board has also taken up scheme outside State Plan for electrification of villages and energisation of pump sets. Accordingly, a scheme which envisages electrification of 32 Nos. of villages and energisation of 33 Nos. of pump sets to be executed in phases with and estimated cost of Rs.25.00 lakhs was submitted to the Rural Electrification Corporation which accorded its approval for advancing loans to Board to the finance the execution of the scheme. The Rural electrification Corporation has already released a loan of Rs.4.91 lakhs in March, 1972.

Mr. Speaker :- Discussion on this Bill be taken up in the next session of the House.

Motion Under Rule 131

        We have now tow motions under Rule 131. May I request Prof. Majaw to move?

Prof. M.N. Majaw (Mawhati S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that this Assembly do discuss the employment for all tribals who have been recently retrenched as also for those tribals under the Government of Assam in offices transferred to the plains of Assam.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved.

        Before I call upon the mover to explain the reason for the motion. I want to know how many hon. Members would like to take part, (8) I will give 10 minutes to the mover and 5 minutes to the subsequent speakers. 

* Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Thank you, Sir, It is obvious from the keen interest shown by the members from both sides of the House to participate in the discussion that this is certainly a very important subject, the subject of giving employment to our people. Now, on the other hand, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we cannot deny the fact that the Government all of the sudden cannot give employment to everyone who seeks employment. As a matter of fact, Government is not supposed to be just an employer of everyone. As Mahatma Gandhi said that Government is best which rules least. But since we are faced wide a peculiar situation that there are no alternative avenues of employment and where the job-oriented institutions are almost absent, and where the industries had not yet developed to be able to absorb those who might in future be trained in certain technical jobs, certainly we are left with a big problem which is both of the public and of the Government, the problem of looking after providing livelihood for the people who are faced with virtual starvation. Now it may be stated, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that the average hillman has a small plot of land in which he can plant potato or grow something that will be of benefit to his stomach and his family. But unfortunately, most of these unfortunate persons who have been mentioned by me in the motion are town dwellers and city dwellers who almost by me in the motion are town dwellers and city dwellers who almost are living in rented houses with a small compound perhaps at the back with a patch of vegetables not sufficient when matured, to last more than a week. And, therefore, the problem of a mere existence looms  very large in their imagination. The first category is those tribals who are recently retrenched in the Relief and Rehabilitation Department. These persons have been given an assurance that the Government would be taking up their problems as quickly as possible. A delegation representing them me the Chief Minister and they were given an assurance. But they are still faced with a big problem, the problem of their non-receipt of salary. It is a problem of non-receiving their salary for the work they had already completed. In that case the office of the Accountant General may be blamed. But since it is a contract, when a person is appointed to a particular post, since the Government undertake to provide a particular salary at a particular time of the year once a month when they accomplish that job, they are supposed to be paid. Where Government can give loan by taking from somebody's' pocket, it is not a problems but for these unfortunate persons, it is the prime responsibility of the Government to give them at least their salaries they are legitimately due to receive. As far as getting concurrence or permission from the various Officers on technical matters, this can be looked after at the Government level. Let these persons who are really faced with starvation at least receive their salaries or arrears. I know of a particular lady whose mother refused to give loan to her daughter in order to help her out of her difficulty. Even those who are still working in the Relief and Rehabilitation Department have not received their salaries from the month of the March till today. Those who have got reserve have to fall back on the reserve but for those who have no reserve, it is really difficult for them even to take loan from somebody's else and it becomes a problem to live. These people are now in a desperate condition, they are really desperate and they will be driven into further desperation. 

        The other problem is still larger and stupendous really and I would not expect the Government to wave a magic want to solve the problem of each and every one of the tribals now on transfer or about to be transferred to the plains of Assam. However, we cannot be unrealistic and on the other hand, we know that there are still many posts that have not been filled up like the posts of Superintendent and Assistant  Superintendents existing at the District level and also at the State level. We know also that the Government has given instructions to the Department so that gradually these people could be absorbed into these offices; but when the Government tries, Mr. Speaker, Sir, in spite of its best intention, it takes six months. Then there is red tapism and often the authorities are justled by competiting persons who want to fill up these vacancies. It may then take another six months and by the time the Selection Board first decides to send out notices to decide to sit and, ultimately, does sit and then send directions and then the directions are implemented and then calls persons for the interview  the Selection Board may end  up with appointing dead persons (laughter). I would earnestly request the Government, where there are vacant posts, to take up drastically, quickly with preciseness, with sureness ad with sympathy and when this is done it will be possible to immediately fill up the vacancies existing now. We know that there were 5 thousand candidates who did  appear in the famous examination last year. I am  giving an example, Mr. Speaker, Sir, which is imperial and momentous in that each candidate deposited Rs.7.50 through the challan - and I really admire that the Government could find such an avenue for earning good income, but of these 5 thousands candidates roughly 300 passed and that only about 53 will be appointed and still the appointments have not been made. There was a  reply being given by those who re in authority " Well, why should you complain that the people of the plains of Assam could come and live in the coldness of Meghalaya?"

Shri Williamson A. Sangma ( Chief Minister ) :  I just want to make a clarification, Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the question of absorption of the tribals working under the Government of Assam who have been transferred to the plains. It does not relate to the new appointments through the Selection Board and I do not know which particular subject matter the hon. Member would like to bring to the House.

Mr. Speaker : Please reply to the point. 

Shri M.N. Majaw :  Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chief Minister left for a few moments when I was giving an example on the tardiness in Government matters and so, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reply is being given that one should grow accustomed to the heat of the plains as much as the others who come and live in the cold of the hills of Shillong. Of course, Sir, it may be acceptable to some tough and hardy characters but when it becomes a matter of separating a family, say if there were a newly wedded couple with the wife working in the plains and the husband in the hills or the husband working in the plains and the wife in the hills, break-up of families would make life hectic and if there were children there would be a frantic search for admission into schools for the children by dislodging them from the schools they are attending. Then the parents would have to try to cajole and bribe the school authorities to accept and admit their children. Mr. Speaker, Sir, these are the attendant problems, particularly in the case where the children have to be left behind. I would, therefore, request the Government to make a definite statement. The Government should, first of all, re-employ them or rather employ all those tribal ladies who are about to be transferred or just being transferred. 

Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh ( Pariong S.T. ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, in supporting the motion moved by the hon. Member, Prof. Majaw, I would like to make some observations and also give some suggestions on what the hon. Member said regarding the problems the Government employees are facing specially those who have been retrenched  and also those whose offices are to be transferred to the plains because of the proposal of the Government of Assam to shift their headquarters to the plains. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the outcome of these is because of the fact that we the people of this State have got our own State and also because of shifting of the capital of Assam Mr. Speaker, Sir, for that we have already discussed at length in the last few days during the general discussion on the budget. So I must express again that the problem must be treated by the Government on a war-footing the war of separation from Assam. The Government have had various experiences of the problems and difficulties of the people during the war of liberation in Bangladesh, when the Government have had to set up hospitals and dispensaries and to find our ways and means to give relief to those who had been affected by the war in Bangladesh. So, Sir, I would like to request Government to try to absorb the Government servants under the Assam Government and while we are talking about employment I would like to suggest that our Government should first of all take these people into our offices as early as possible because there is scope for them to be absorbed. There are about 600 or so and I think that these 600 may not be tribals. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, Government must find ways and means how to absorb them. I would impress upon the Government that the single-file system could be changed in order to absorb our own people in the existing office and also to create immediate development works and projects so that these people can be employed under their own Government. So, Sir, while giving this suggestion, I would like to stress that the Government must treat this question on a war-footing. 

Mr. Speaker : Now, Mr. D.D. Lapang. 

* Shri D. Dethwell Lapang ( Nongpoh S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, joining hands with my colleagues in the motion moved by the hon. Member of this House about unemployment which is a very acute problem, I feel that this problem is looking its head large not only in the whole nation but also in our newly - born State of Meghalaya. This problem, if I may be allowed to say here, has affected also the non-tribal and we should express our broadmindedness by giving employment to the non-tribals also if possible. So I feel that not only our Meghalayans should be given help but also those non-tribals who have got no employment . Mr. Speaker, Sir, in this regard, I would like to say something on the retrenchment of our personnel as already stated by some of my colleagues. There are people who have been retrenched from the various departments especially from the R & R Department which is a persistent headache to the whole region. On some occasions in the previous days, we have heard that the Government has expressed its desire to try its best to absorb all our local people as far as practicable. Then there is another problem and that is with regard to the shifting of the Capital. This problem has affected most of the Government servants now serving under the Government of Assam especially those having families women workers. The Chief Minister has given a reply that they have written to the A.G.s office or some Central Government officer for absorptions of the services of these poor Government servants. So may I request the Government through you, Sir, that a follow -up programme in this connection should be taken p so that local people will not be left on the street without employment as a result of this shifting because it is really true that they will find great difficulties in these hard days especially in the backward areas of ours, and moreover since they not have a very strong economic background to support their livelihood. 

               Then another problem is that we are being exploited by the people coming from outside. Some of my friends here said that in trade, business and all walks of life, people from outside are carrying on. This is true but now I feel that it is our duty and the duty of the Government to see that they can at least maintain their livelihood and allowed to live as human beings in this country. In so far as appointed is concerned I would suggest to the Government to make specific policy for appointment and see that reference is given to the local people. I think this is the slogan of the day also the very motive of achieving our Meghalaya State here. Now, we really appreciate our authorities for giving employment to those people coming from outside, because due to dearth of capable man we are bound to get able people from outside the State. May I request the Government to see that their employment should made on contract basis as they are doing now in Nagaland. It is very much encouraging to se that the Nagaland Government are doing in that line in the mater of employing people form outside, in spite of the fact that the Meghalaya people are having god academic career, good knowledge  and good experience in comparison with the people of Nagaland. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we would suggest to the Government that those officers coming from outside be given due respect and honour because they come to suffer for our own sake and devote their services, render their valuable service here for our own future. We request the Government to get our local people trained that the outsiders cannot always hold such offices as this will give a chance to our own people especially those who have got no thorough knowledge in any trade of industry. Another suggestions I would like to make Sir, is that, as we have sent some projects, plans and schemes to the Central Government for opening of some industries in this part of the country, Government should see that these are followed up very speedily so that it will be not only like a dream or paper plan but will be the main source of employment for our people. We have been talking of social evils and I think it is due to the fact that our people are loitering in the streets and do not have nay activities at all who have indulged in these evils in our society. Therefore, may I request the Government to invite big companies or factories from outside the State to open up branches here in our State to create employment opportunities to these jobless people. Government should also create other facilities of employment to our people and preference should also given to them here our own State. With these few words Sir, I resume my seat. 

 Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah ( Jaiaw S.T ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is indeed a good trend that we are all concerned on the whole to apply our mind to this very very vital and important problem of employing our people. Now in this Motion, there are two or three aspects - the first aspect is regarding employment of the typists who have been recently retrenched from their service. In so far as this point is concerned. I thin it is fully met by the replies of the Chief Minister given the other day on the floor of this House and I now do not like to dwell upon it. Regarding absorption of the tribal employees who are now serving under the Government of Assam, and those who are going down to Gauhati and who are getting orders of transfer to Gauhati, I think sir, they are the very important aspects of the matter. In the first instance, it involves a large number of them, but the most basic thing here I think Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the fact that is linked up with the basic aspirations of the Hills People when we were struggling for a Hill State since 1954 which was more or less to us somewhat like a national issue and it involved all people of all sections directly or indirectly and even the Government Servants also were involved in it. I believe that those Government servants serving in the Government of Assam have been all along looking forward to a day when they can also get an opportunity to serve their own State. This is the basic thing and it is in the context that today there are large numbers of employees now under orders of going to the plains of Assam who have expressed their eagerness to serve in their own State of Meghalaya. 

        Secondly, the question of difficulties is there as enumerated by my friends- there is the financial problem, but the basic problem, but the basic problem is the problem of language that these people are going to face there. So these are the two considerations which have come to my mind. Now in the light of all these things, I do feel that it is a very very important matter for the Government of Meghalaya to take up this question on an emergency basis. I do not like to use the word on a  war-footing but certainly we like to take up this question on the State of emergency. Now we know that the State of Meghalaya is a very small State and that it cannot absorb all these employees who are under transfer to the Plains and I must appreciate the element of maturity in the words of the Mover of the Motion when he said that the Government cannot all of a sudden give employment to all of them or absorb all to them here and now. This problem is an important problem that the Government  should consider and absorb all of them. But I think there are certain basic difficulties. Firstly, we are now facing a deficit budget and increasing employment opportunities will be difficult. But, I thought, in order to be brief it is my duty to suggest to the Government that certain steps should be taken by taking up certain programmes.       

        Mention was made by Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh about the single the system. I know that it does not effect the staffing pattern to a great extent. But to the extent that a small number of staff could be engaged in the works affected by this system, it is definitely true that we can absorb these people to that extent. So it is important that the Government should pay due attention to this question and also to review the system as far as practicable. All these questions were taken up by our Chief Minister the other day. I am also happy that the Chief Minister is very much aware and alive to the suggestions, we made the other day about the possibility of absorbing the staff in the office of the Controller of Defence Accounts, coming here to set up an office in Shillong. This is will open up a large employment potential to our unemployed youths. But the only difficulty with this Department is that they will require people, trained people and that the Government should give them for at least 6 months then they can be absorbed in the Controller of Civil Defence Accounts. 

        Secondly, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the Government of Assam will not shift their Capital so soon and by the time the Capital of Assam will be shifted to some places in the pains perhaps we will be able to absorb our tribal employees now under the Government of Assam. 

        Thirdly the setting up of the N.E. Council in Shillong some time this year, I think, this also will certainly open up employed youths. Fourthly, we have also discussed the other day about the taking over of the State Transport Cooperation. This also will absorb many of the unemployed by giving employed by giving  employment opportunities to our people. Fifthly the other question is about the taking over of the Metre Factory. This will create employment opportunities no doubt especially to the lower paid  and the 4th Grade Staff. Sixthly, considering the question of taking up the establishment of the Marketing Corporation  of course, I prefer it to be in the co-operative sector to extend better chances to the unemployed. Seventhly, there is also scope on the District level because there are Meghalayans who will certainly like the idea of exchange of their services with the non- Meghalaya. This question of exchanging  of services will only arise among the people who would like to come here and the non- Meghalayan who would like to go to the plains. I believe the Government will take note of my suggestions and take some steps towards this gigantic problem by taking the question very very seriously in the interest of the people. 

Shri H. Enowel Pohshna ( Nongtalang S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is really a very difficult subject for us to discuss here but having our sympathy with the Chief Minister and also the Government, I would describe that this is really a very gigantic problem. When I say Government, I don't mean that we on this side of the House or whether that side of the House should take the responsibility and give assurances right at the first instance without having any first- hand knowledge of the magnitude of the problem. One man came to me while I was there at Gauhati, because as you all know. I used to go to Gauhati mist frequently I asked him how long has he been there and he told me that he has been transferred to Gauhati a few years before the Meghalaya State came into existence. He told me he does not like to stay there because of health problem, housing problem is there and is very difficult indeed to go down to Gauhati especially for the people with a small salary. Then I have to  ask him a simple question whether he was married or single. He said " I am single Sir." I told him you "go back to your home and try to get a rich lady of a rich family"., ( Laughter ) because a man with a rich family will face a small problem and that is natural because we cannot simply take this or that way with our small earning. 

Mr. Speaker : Can you arrange to point out any rich widow?

Shri H.E. Pohshna : The question is very complicated one but still there are so many widows or divorced ladies. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Then you are talking about Family Planning. 

Shri H.E. Pohshna : Not only in the Hills but also people of the Plains. You will find that a young boy as soon as he got married he becomes automatically a rich man because after getting married he got a dowry. 

        The next question Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the question of retrenched personnel that have been put out of job for some reasons or other. In his connection I fully agree with Mr. Kyndiah. This is the first time hat we have to agree with the Ruling party and I would request the House. His suggestions are most welcome when he stressed upon the Government to open avenues for employment potentialities to our unemployed population. But now, I am making additional points. For examples, Sir, in Assam in order to give more employment to the educated youths the Government have to provide some grants for the purchase of scooters. But in our case the scooters could not function in the hill areas. I would also suggest that the Census of the retrenched personnels should be made and also unemployment among our educated youths in which our young men and women here will take up this work of making census. Then they will know the magnitude of this problem of retrenched person in our State and could play such a vital role in easing this stupendous task of unemployment, in our State. 

        Secondly, Sir, before I take my seat, I will touch another important aspect which has got a very s tong impression on my mind. Of course, I have got some consultation with the Finance Minister because the Finance Minister is there, (Laughter). Then my last suggestion is that I am sorry if the word ' Communal' is not welcome. But it should not be welcome. But I would like to come to the other extent or so to say, that at least the question of absorbing our children, our fellow tribals in our State by creating new avenues to absorb them. I again highly appreciate Mr. Kyndiah that there should be a mutual understanding between the two Governments so that those non-tribals serving under our Government, were not deprived of their legitimate right and so also our own people working under the Government of Assam were legitimately protected. It is only after proper examination of the problem that we can arrive at such a conclusion by consultation between the Chief Minister of Meghalaya and the Chief Minister of Assam through a joint discussion to settle this problem in a best manner expected. The other problem now is the language problem. As you know, Sir, the Assam Government has now implemented its Assamese language as the Official language, in the Government offices as well as in the institutions. This problem will hardly arouse the feeling and attitude of those non-tribal employees now serving at Gauhati under the Government of Assam. We could not condemn Assamese language as we may also have our own official language in future in our State, who knows? Therefore, I fully agree with the sentiments cited by Mr. Kyndiah and  also with the views given by the mover of the motion while moving this motion. 

Mr. Speaker : Nobody else? I will request that the subsequent speakers should confine to specific points only and not to repeat the same. 

Prof. A. Warjri ( Mawkhar S.T. ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to take part in this discussion. Here, we have come to a juncture in which we can really say 'there are no roses without thorns'. We have achieved our full fledged State peacefully but the results are what we have now, and the fact is that we have to bear the burnt of it and our people have to suffer, especially, those people who have taken a very active part though not openly during the fight for a separate State. We were all the whole hearted supporters of the movement. The time has come in which we have to face many difficulties and one after another set of problems is created. Instead of criticising the Government on this particular aspect, I would rather appreciate the views expressed by the hon. Members who have spoken before me, who have appreciated the difficulties of the Government. The policy of the Government in this regard as we have seen is that the majority of the Government servants especially in the Secretariat and the Directorates, were taken form Assam Government. a few percentages were direct recruits. Perhaps a great majority for direct recruits is the Lower Grade, the Grade IV, but for other majority for direct recruits is the Lower Grade, the Grade IV, but for other categories the great majority has been taken from the Assam Government. At the same time during the Cut Motion discussion the Chief Minister himself has assured or rather he has spelled out the policy of the Government regarding the percentage, or rather various percentages that should be taken into consideration in making appointments. Mr. Speaker, Sir, one must understand the difficulties that the Government is facing in this matter. The hon. Members from Pariong has just now stated that the Government can employ  all these 600 employees what are still serving under the Government of Assam. Perhaps that is possible but to employ only these persons  is not enough. We must take into employment not to speak of those who have got no chance for employment not to speak of those who are still awaiting to be called for a selection test. What about those 300 or more young boys  and girls who  have passed the selection test or examination. They are still awaiting to be appointed for the carious posts under this Government. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government will have to strike a balance in between. Of course I agree that a certain portion of vacancies should go to those people who are to be transferred to the plains on the event of shifting of the Capital of Assam from Shillong. But at the same time we should also think of those unemployed educated youths of the State. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with this observation, I would like to make a few suggestions and these are first of all the Government should utmost urgency assess the strength of section of each Department, so that Government can know the strength of the staff in each Department and to fill up immediately or create posts whenever necessary. In filling up these posts with staff from the Government of Assam, a certain portion or a small percentage should be left for direct recruits. This should also be in consistence with the efficiency and economy of the Department. Moreover Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government should do away with the difference between the two categories, one in Secretariat level and the other the Government Servants in the Directorates. These two should be made into one category. 

Mr. Speaker : Do you mean to say that the pay scale of Government servants in the Directorates and secretariat should be the same?   

Prof. A. Warjri :- Yes. There  should be one service. Those employees who are serving in the Secretariat can go and serve in the Directorates and vice-versa. Further, Mr. Speaker, Sir I would like to sat that there are large numbers of people who are still in the waiting list of the Selection Board. These people have passed the selection test of the Board and according to merits they are places in the lower part of the waiting list. 

Mr. Speaker :- In the first ten.

Prof. A. Warjri :- No, the lower part of the merit list. These people have passed the examination of the Selection Board and they should be given an option to joint district Offices. If these people have to sit for another qualification test of the District Selection Board, I would like to request the Government, through you, to give an option to these young boys and girls to join in the district Offices (Bell rang). With these few words, Mr. Speaker, I resume my seats.

Shri Plansing Marak (Murapora S.T.) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to praise one question which has already been raised by my hon. friend, Prof. M. N. Majaw regarding retrenchment of A.R.R. personnel. I am fully associated with the appointment of A.R.R. Officers, I met Shri Saigal who was Commissioner of Relief and Rehabilitation at that time and to my great surprise I found that in spite of the fact that there are many Garo graduates, not a single Garo graduate was included in the list of appointment. All were Bengalee names. 

Mr. Speaker : That has got nothing to do. 

Shri Plansing Marak : Well Mr. Speaker, Sir, before giving appointment, I had a talk with Shri Saigal that some of the Garo unemployed graduates should be appointed as A.R.R. officers and as a result  some of the unemployed Garo graduates were employed and left without a job. What will be the position of these retrenched personnel. 

Mr. Speaker : There is no scope for any discussion about the past. The motion before the House is that the  Government should employ those retrenched personnel. 

Shri Plansing Marak : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have told them before hand that the posts are purely temporary and the posts will be terminated as soon as the work is over. Especially to married persons I told or rather advised them to be careful before joining the post because after retrenchment they will have no right to represent their claims. In order to solve this problem of employment of retrenched personnel, I was trying to meet Ministers at the Secretariat. But the problem is that at present we do not have  a Public Service Commission of our own. With the constitution of the Public Service Commission, I believe something could be done for these people. 

        One more point, I would like now to come to the question of shifting of capital from Shillong to Gauhati. Many people will be thrown out of employment and many will be retrenched. Those people will have to go down along with the shifting of capital.  There will be no difficulty for them. Somehow they can sit tight and get their pay since they do not understand Assamese language. Even sitting tight they will get their pay. But for those new-comers we should not block the opportunity again and again. With these words, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I now resume my seat. 

Mr. Speaker : Now, Mr. Khongwir. 

Shri Stanlington David Khongwir ( Mawlai S.T) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very important matter and indeed a problem. It has created a lot of problems for the Government and as you have cautioned, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I shall not raise or touch on these points which have already been covered by the hon. Members who preceded me. 

 Mr. Speaker : You must also understand that Government is in between the two horns of a dilemma whether they should absorb those who have been already unemployed or to give employment to those who have never been employed. 

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Mr.  Speaker, Sir, I would like to deal with the problem of those who will be affected by the impending shifting of capital.  With this impending shifting of capital from Shillong many of our Meghalayans, Officers and staff, will undoubtedly be required to be shifted down to  Gauhati or to other place I the plains, and this, Mr. Speaker, Sir, will not only entail those persons directly involved in the services but would also disturb the officers and staff of the Assam Government who are required to move down to Gauhati or to any other place. They will have to take with them their children. So on this basis, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will take it together, specially the tribal communities, who are required to be shifted to Gauhati will be to the tune of 2,000 to 3,000 including children and other members of the family. So, Sir, the magnitude of the tribal population shifting to the plains will be subjected to all the disadvantages of the language of Assamese because Assamese is the official language of Assam. These people, who will go down to Assam will have to meet with all the disadvantages in regard to the language problem. As already mentioned by one of the hon. Members for the first one or two years pending their learning of the Assamese language they will have to sit tight and do nothing because everything will be done in the Assamese language. Sir, as my time is very limited I will straightway like to read out some paragraphs of the Memorandum to the Commission for the Hills Areas of Assam submitted by the All-Party Hill Leader's Conference Shillong, Assam :-  

        (1) " The decision to declare Assamese as the official language was preceded by outbreaks of violence in the plains areas against the non- Assamese speaking minorities the like of which had never occurred before in Assam. The hill people looked upon all this as an open attempt by the Assamese speaking majority not only to conserve, consolidate and perpetuate the spoils of political power for themselves, but also to 'assamise' the non- Assamese speaking minorities in the State by force, if necessary. The hill people, therefore, rose up against it as one man."

        (2) " The position and the conditions of the Hills people in Assam are such that the acceptance of the Assamese language, now or at any time, which would place the  Assamese in a more dominant position will lead to the assimilation of all the hills people into the Assamese Community, thereby gradually leading to the disintegration of their identity as distinct communities in India, which identity has been given recognition and protection under the Constitution. Such assimilation and disintegration and protection under the Constitution. Such assimilation and disintegration are against the deepest sentiments of the hills people and detrimental to the composite culture of India, which is born of unity in diversity. 

         (3) " The adoption of Assamese as the official language of the state will adversely affect the opportunities and prospects of the hills people in the Government Services and other avocation s not with standing any amount of safeguards which can always be circumvented."

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think my time is up and thus I resume my seat. 

Shri G. Mylliemngap ( Sohryngkham S.T. ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the motion before the House deals with two aspects, i.e.,(1) about the retrenched personnels and (2) about those people serving under the Government of Assam who are going to be shifted to the plains of Assam. About the first issue I need not talk any more. But I want to say something about the second one. It is really unfortunate for our new born State to fight with so many difficulties and problems which cropped up within this very short time. But the burning problem which we people are feeling at Present is about those people who are already in service and still under the Government of Assam who are going down to the plains along with the shifting of the capital to the plains of Assam. This is the burning problem of the day. Mr. Speaker, Sir, actually we can leave aside some other problems which we can deal with in the near future when the necessity arises, that is if the officer of the Controller of Defence Accounts of the N.C.C. offices are set up or some employment potentialities are opened up. This will depend on our future programme. But at present the most burning problem is about these people. I do not agree with Mr. Pohshna to say that unmarried people should marry and married people should seek divorce. I do not agree to this. But what I propose besides other points and suggestion which been put forward by some of the hon. Members is that we have to win the confidence and affection of our own people who are Meghalayans - it is more than sure that for these people, it will not be possible for the Government immediately to absorb all of them. But we should win the confidence of these people. As I have said how to win their confidence the Government should go up to the extent of helping these people financially, even if these people have to got to some other places in the plains to serve the Assam Government. Because these people have got heavy liabilities. These people are not like other people who are still searching for a job but the people who are already in services. They are having heavier responsibilities and we should try to win over these people and  even go to event of suggesting to the Government that if we are really interested in their welfare Government should help them by assisting them in the form of house rent and some other type of allowances when they are going away from their own home so that we can win over their confidence. 

Mr. Speaker : I think the rules will not be like that. Perhaps, Government can help them  by giving scholarship to the children staying in Shillong. 

Shri G. Mylliemngap : This is one of my suggestions that Government may given in the shape of financial assistance to win over the confidence of the people.  With these words, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I now resume my seat. 

Shri S.P. Swer ( Sohra S.T. ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the time is very limited, I would not say much on the first part of the motion. It speaks about the retrenched personnel. This problem is prevalent in every State of India and we have such retrenched personnels here who were from the R.R. Department  and may be some other Departments also. I am sure about they R.R. Department.  As far as I know, the Government have already proposed to absorb these personnels to the extent possible. And the second part is that with the sudden decision of the Government of Assam to shift the offices from Shillong to Gauhati, some of our tribals are also going down to Gauhati. Yes, I know there will be some difficulty due to the change of climate and other factors for some time, but this is not the question of unemployment. They are employed but the question is shifting the offices from the hills to the plains. We know that our State is a small State with very limited resources. In a small State, we cannot expect a big Secretariat, big Directorates. As far as I know our State has about 14 Directorates and there are hundreds of employees serving in the Directorates under the Government of  Assam. How to absorb all of them in our small Directorates so also 'how to absorb these employees from the Assam Secretariat are to be absorbed in our Directorate, the question  is about the pay. If we have to pay the same pay at the Directorate as that of Secretariat level them we ask the Government to go against all economic laws. But this question, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is not a question to be solved in a short time. But I know that many Members of this House as well as outside the House talk and discuss this problem and this is the subject which has been agitating our mind during theses days. I know that the Government is trying very hard to find out ways ands means how to absorb all these employees, tribals and non-tribals, which means all Meghalayans. I agree with Mr. P.R. Kyndiah when he made suggestion for special consideration of giving facilities to our unemployed educated youths. I would also suggest that permits for city bus, taxis, tourist taxis or bazar bus may be issued to them. Government can consider this as a special case for the educated  unemployed youths in our State. As I said before,  this is a problem that cannot be solved so easily ;  (Bell rang ) it is a problem which requires a long term  solution so as to enable the Government to be in position to absorb and provide them with employment. 

Mr. Speaker : I now request the Chief Minister to reply. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem ( Mynso- Raliang S. T. ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have also something to say in this connection. In fact, I  rose to speak  but my voice is too feeble to receive your attention. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is rather familiar not only State, but we find these difficulties  everywhere and along  with this problem of unemployment, probably many problems will crop in. Sir, it appears at this juncture that this burning problem of unemployment as raised by the hon. Member, that is the unemployment of the retrenched personnel, is to be given special consideration by the Government. Special consideration should also be given to those employees whose offices are to be shifted to the plains. Some of my friends have gone to the extent of advising the Government in many ways how to solve this problem. One of my friends from the other side has taken a stand while narrating the way in which the employment officer is behaving........

Mr. Speaker : Please do not bring in an insinuation. 

Shri H. Hadem : This is a burning problem, it is so urgent that everybody takes it very seriously. At this stage, I would like to point out that only in one department in the District of Jaintia Hills - with  the taking away of the Jowai - Badarpur road, one division had to be shifted to the plains, because it is under the Government of Assam and some personnel under that division had to be retrenched and many of them had to be transferred along with the offices down to the plains. I do not know exactly where that place is - where it is at Lumding or Dimapur, I do not know.  So, I would like to suggest to the Government to look into this matter so that those people are not victimised at this stage. I would also request that consideration may be given to them and every opportunity should be taken to help them,  in order to remove their difficulties. According to me, Sir, the unemployed who have never been employed will not have the difficulty as those poor retrenched people. 

        Regarding the language problem, I think we all understand that the language problem originated from the Babel itself which turned everything into topsy-turvy. I would, therefore, Sir, request the Government to give serious consideration to this problem so that, as far as practicable, maximum number of our people can be absorbed in the newly created post. With these few words, I resume my seat. 

Mr. Speaker : May I now request the Chief Minister?

Shri Upstar Kharbuli ( Malki ) : May I have a few words, Sir ?

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think there is no further need for me to repeat what most of the  hon. Members have said about the difficulties and problem of these people. We can realise the difficulties and problem of these people. We can realise the difficulties to be faced by some of them and the extent of the problem which is apprehended by the majority of them. We know that in all, about 600 families will be affected by the proposed shifting of the capital. 

Mr. Speaker : Not necessary because husband and wife may be going together. 

Shri Upstar Kharbuli :- Sir, I do not know whether the Government have got the correct figures or not and it is also not necessary to expect that all these people would come over to Meghalaya even if they are given a chance. Most of them may still like to remain in Assam and there may be some people who may not have to serve longer than 2 to 3 years, they will rather prefer to remain in Assam than complicate years, they will rather prefer to remain in Assam than complicate things. They would prefer to remain in Assam still for their pension etc., even if they are offered option. One thing we find here from the expression given by most of the Members, specially from the Ruling side, is that the problem is not to be faced by us, instead of giving the opinion to it, let us face this problem and try to solve it when we have faced it. Another thing, Sir, is that we know that our Government have not yet settled about the assets and liabilities with the Government of Assam. So why convert this problem into one of the cases of liabilities as well. These people have been jubilant along with the rest of the people of the State when the creation of our new State was announced and I feel it is not proper that they will suffer as a consequence of it. Rather we should be determine that we should live together and die together. We should realise that one of the greatest difficulties that these people are liable to face is the language problem. Besides we should also realise that most of these people belong to the low paid group. When we asked or demanded for separation, these are the two important factors which we have resorted to in demanding for a separate State. We have seen that there are other States like Nagaland whose revenue is very small. But in spite of that, they could have a Secretariat as huge as the one they are having now and, if I am not mistaken, as many as 1,000 employees are there in it. So, I would  urge upon the Government to take a serious view of this matter and there is enough scope which can be resorted to provide the Government really is determined to help these people. As I have said from the beginning, that we may not expect that  all these people would come to the Government of Meghalaya even if they are given option, I would request the Government, if possible, to expedite executing of the agreement an envisaged in the North Eastern Areas Reorganisation Act, 1971. One of the clauses in that agreement would be to extent a sort of general option to those people, subject to first preference be given to those tribal employees who may be put into great difficulty because of the language problem. With these few words, Sir, I resume my seat.

 (Mr. Deputy  Speaker in the Chair) 

* Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the first instance, I would like to thank Prof. Majaw for bringing this matter for discussion in this August House. During the discussion on the budget and also during discussion on the cut motion, this some problem has been brought to this House and I have had occasion to give a definite thinking of the Government as to how to tackle this problem. I entirely agree with the hon. Members of this House that with that shifting of the capital, the Meghalaya, specially the tribals who are ignorant of the Assamese language which is declared as the State language in the State of Assam, will be very much handicapped. They will be very much handicapped when they will have to continue to serve under the Government of Assam in the valley if complete implementation of the language policy is given. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Government is fully aware of this problem and hon. Members have also appreciated that this is a problem which cannot be solved by the Government in spite of its best desire and intention within a short time. But it is indeed a matter of great satisfaction that all of us are involved in this particular matter and that itself gives some encouragement. We feel that there may be a way out, if not in the near future, since we are of the same opinion. I am definite, in the long run there will be a solution but this has to be tackled step by step. We have to categorise the people now serving under the Government of Assam for giving attention to those people who are affected by the shifting of the Capital of Assam from Shillong to Gauhati. As I have indicated, while in a limited way it may be possible for the Government immediately to take a few  to fill up  certain vacancies under the Government of Meghalaya. We have to give first of all preference to the lady employees. But thereby I cannot give the assurance that all the ladies who are  still serving under the Government of Assam can be absorbed. In fact if the Government is not aware of the problem, we would not have taken action to find out the total number of Meghalayans especially who are still with Assam. This is very action would indicate that the Government is fully alive to the problem. I shall read out the statement showing the tribal employees from Meghalaya serving under the Government of Assam :- 

Assam Secretariat 

1.

Superintendent ...

...             ...

...             ...

4

2.

Assistant Superintendent 

...             ...

...             ...

4

3.

Upper Division Assistant

...             ...

...             ...

87

4.

Lower Division Assistant

...             ...

...             ...

146

5.

S.G. Typist       ...

...             ...

...             ...

15

6.

Ordinary Typist ...

...             ...

...             ...

16

7.

Underqualified Typist ...

...             ...

...             ...

4

8.

Steno Grade I    ...

...             ...

...             ...

1

9.

Steno Grade II ...

...             ...

...             ...

7

10.

Steno Grade III ...

...             ...

...             ...

8

11.

Underqualified Steno.

...             ...

...             ...

2

Total 

304

The number of Grade IV could not be collected. 

        Directorate in Assam.     

Superintendent

( excluding 1 Superintendent who has already joined in Meghalaya). 

2

Head Assistant ... 

...     ...        ...

...             ...

3

Upper Division Assistant

...     ...        ...

...             ...

48

S.G.U.D Assistant

...     ...       ...

...             ...

1

Lower Division Assistant 

(excluding one L.D.A who has already joined in Meghalaya.

125

 Typists                    ...

...       ...        ...

...             ...

40

S.G. Typists      

...       ...        ...

...             ...

8

Steno Grade II  

...       ...       ...  

...             ...

1

Steno Grade III

...       ...        ...

...             ...

4

Underqualified Stenos.

...       ...        ...

...             ...

3

Drivers 

...       ...        ...

...             ...

4

Grade IV

...       ...        ...

...             ...

24

Accountant 

...        ...        ...

...             ...

3

Sub Inspector of Statistics

...       ...        ...

...             ...

2

Marketing Officer

...       ...        ...

...             ...

1

Manager                 ...

...       ...        ...

...             ...

1

Messenger              ...

...       ...        ...

...             ...

1

Registrar                 ...

...       ...        ...

...             ...

1

First Assistant 

...       ...        ...

...             ...

1

Index Clerk.           ...

...       ...        ...

...             ...

1

Record Keeper

...       ...        ... 

...             ...

1

Inspector of Boilers

...       ...        ...

...             ...

1

Auditor                  ...

...       ...        ...

...             ...

1

Internal Auditor 

...       ...        ...

...             ...

1

Tracers ...

...       ...        ...

...             ...

16

Printing Supervisor

...       ...        ...

...             ...

1

Printer                  ...

...       ...        ...

...             ...

1

Time Keeper        ... 

...       ...        ...

...             ...

1

Supervisor            ...

...       ...        ...

...             ...

2

Mandal                 ...

...       ...        ...

...             ...

1

Assistant Director of Survey

...       ...        ...

...             ...

1

Head Draftsman 

...       ...        ...

...             ...

1

Total

...           ... 277

        Now it comes to about 600. While the hon. Members have been expressing their concern over this problem, they must realise that it will not be possible for the Government to absorb all those personnel/staff serving with the Government of Assam. But this is a problem which have got to be solved. As I made it very clear on the other day that whatever might be the difficulties and handicap arising out of the shifting of Capital, Meghalaya will have to face. The removal of these difficulties and handicaps would be primarily the responsibility of the Government of Assam. Now, with the shifting of the Capital if the Secretariat and the Directorate are to function through the medium of Assamese, the Government of Assam should be fully aware of the fact that in this arrangement, the employees especially the tribal employees will become illiterate over-night. Therefore, unless some alternative arrangement is made for their absorption or for some other type of employment, I think it should be not only the responsibility of the Government of Meghalaya because of its moral obligation but it must be also the responsibility of the Government of Assam to devise ways and means to have these people. Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir a number of suggestions have been put forward as to how to employ these personnel now serving under the Government of Assam. Mr. P.R. Kyndiah had given some suggestions and these will be borne in mind by the Government. Certain suggestions have been put forward by Mr. Pohshna, Mr. Mylliemngap, Mr. Kharbuli and others. Now we shall have to examine as to what extent by opening new avenues these people can be helped. In this connection I would like to point out, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, another very important aspect of the matter which should also be taken care of with the shifting of Capital. It is not only those who are still serving with the Government of Assam are going to face some difficulties. I think they (Government of Assam) will be also in a verge of big economic set-back when all our people would go down to Gauhati with the shifting of the capital. They will have to tackle this huge population. So these are the problems. So, in a small way, we have been trying to see how all these problems are to be tackled. Infact, I have already given indications to the officers to examine all these aspects of the matter and see how to plan to fact this problem. Therefore, may I inform this House and the hon. Members through you, Sir, that the Government is very alive to this problem and I hope we should not try to be concerned about this problem only by expressions in this House, but I think, we should meet very often as leaders and discuss ways and means how effectively this problem can be solved. Government would welcome the various suggestions which may help the Government to solve this problem. The suggestions already placed before the House would be examined and there may be some other suggestions which have not been thought of at present or which will be given later on. When such suggestion are given to Government, we will examine them but this problem is not going to be easy. But, I hope the hon. Members will appreciate that the Government is fully aware of this problem and I hope with the co-operation of all Members, in the long run, it may be possible for us to solve this problem to a great extend. One suggestion which is given by Mr. Kharbuli, I believe, has already been taken care of by the Government. But when we have been asking for some assistance form the Government of Assam to man these departments and the Secretariat in Meghalaya Administration, we have made it a point that those who are on the verge of retirement should not be disturbed because we know when the capital is shifted, even if they are to  go down to Gauhati it is a question of limited time. We have made it a  policy that those who are on the verge of retirement should not be disturbed save exceptional cases. In future, whenever vacancies arise in Meghalaya, we will try to, subject to other policy decision, keep certain reservation for the employees now under the Government of Assam. We will try also to examine the particular question that ladies should be given preference. Lastly, in consultation with my colleagues, we will consider the desirability of having a committee to go into the question. A part from the committee composed of the officials, it may be good to constitute a committee in which the hon. Members representing different shades of opinion can also be associated. If we have the spirit that it is our responsibility to help the Government to solve this problem, I am sure, to a great extent, this problem will be solved. I would also inform the House, through, you, Sir, that will take the earliest opportunity to discuss this problem in detail  specially with regard to Meghalayans serving under the Government of Assam. They may be required to shift down to Gauhati and face lot of difficulties. I would also take the opportunity to discuss this problem with the Chief Minister, Assam and see whether some solution could be found. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think, a similar question will be coming up again in this House. We have had occasion to discuss and I have seen a number of questions and this Government will have replied and this House will still have the opportunity to discuss about the problem though questions and answers. May I, before resuming my seat, request the hon, Members from both sides to extend their active co-operation and help in solving this problem.  

*Prof M.N. Majaw : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am extremely gratified to see that amount of thinking that has gone into this matter and to know a number of Members speaking each expressing different views and putting forth very valuable suggestions. But I am happy still to hear the reply of the Chief Minister which I really welcome particularly that he has been gallant to the extent that the cases of ladies would be dealt with first, because he says, he cannot assure all the lady employees immediately but he will do his best to deal first with the cases of the ladies. The other two assurances given by the Chief Minister about the constitution of a committee composed of various members of this House and taking the earliest opportunity to meet the Chief Minister of Assam and thanking for the assurance, I have only one point to make that whatever have been assured on the floor of the House, all those will be implemented as quickly, speedily effectively as possible and with these words I withdraw my motion.

Shri W. A Sangma :- There is no question of withdrawal of the motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Now the discussion is closed. Let us go to the next item No. 2 I request Prof. M.N. Majaw to move the Motion under Rule 131 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business of the Assembly.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that this Assembly do now discuss the creation of a new Subdivision for the entire area now covered by the Bhoi Development with Khasi Hills.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have moved this motion before the House and I hope the Members will not be over-taxed by seeing the same ugly person speaking on every motion. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are just tow days for Private Members' Business and this happens to be one of the fortunate days for us and the unfortunate days for the members of the Ruling Party. This matter that has been listed for today is a very very important matter. We all know what is Bhoi area. It is a vast sprawling area including low lands and a few high lands also, stretching from Kamrup right upto Jagi Road, from Khri river right upto Umiam river having on one side the Mikir Hills and on the other the Syiemship of Nongkhlaw. In this vast area there are about 75,000 people.

        Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, one might be misled and often misled by the nice-looking bungalows, and buildings at Nayabunglow and the beautiful signboards put up by the Government of Meghalaya there to indicate various offices and ginger processing plant and all the paraphernalia along the Gauhati-Shillong road, just to create an impression that this was all about Bhoi Development Area. This, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is far from truth, perhaps, as distance as hell is from heaven. (laughter).

        Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if one enters the interior by going diagonally across tot he area and a little bit to the west of the very big Gauhati-Shillong road, particularly to the East towards Mikir Hills, after sometime, you will not be able to go in more except along the famous Umsning-Jagi Road. By this you will come into dense jungles and high hills where there are no roads. This, Mr. Speaker, is an indication of development. Only one and a half mile or you give another half to cover the piggery at the back of the B.D.O's house etc. and nothing is developed. One and half mile and nothing can be called development. It is a desolation from the development point of view, from financial point of view, from medical point of view, education point of view, industrial point of view. But these are human beings these are people called in the Khasi language, 'Bhoi' which is not used in good sense. Though the Bhoi people are low class, illiterate, ignorant, they are intelligent people in the State, they are very clever, very sharp but they are not able to read and write because there are no schools and even if they exist, they are at a distance of 40 to 50 miles. They are 50 to 60 miles from the Silk Rearing Institute. They are infested by elephants who crush them to death. Their life beggar's description.

        Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we were told in this House that one or two new Subdivision are coming up in the State. I have no grudge in the matter and I welcome such move. As a matter of fact, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the best type of Government is to diffuse and to speak regionally, in the Khasi Hills district we have an ancient tradition in the institution of the Syiemship. The Syiems are all elected and with the great power that the Government of India possess, they could not throw out Syiems, while the Government of India possess, they could not throw out Syiems, while the mighty monarchs of Mysore, Hyderabad, Rajasthan, Baroda have been put way with the dust of history. Here we are still having our Syiem ruling; they are still collecting taxes, and sitting in judgment. This will be a great example to the whole of India and in the whole world that whereas our Syiems are ruling they are not hereditary but elected. With such a case of democratic institution so strong and ancient that we have, it is fit and proper that more and more power, more and more delegation of powers be given to the Syiems. While this new subdivisions are coming up, I would like to point out at the same time, here is an area with larger number of persons than what Nongstoin has. The Nongstoin area has a population of 55,000 to 60,000 persons while in the Bhoi area there are about 75,000 persons excluding the area covered in the areas of the Bhoi Area Development Block-area of Nongspung Jirang and Nongkhlaw. These areas area traditionally Bhoi areas but they do not fall under the Bhoi area Development Block, and including these the population would be about 85,000 persons or more. There are 4 Assembly Constituencies in the Bhoi area and of course 3/4th fall under the Bhoi area and elsewhere. But Nongkhlaw, Nongpoh, Mawhati and Umroi, these four constituencies are certainly larger than the proposed new Subdivisions that are being contemplated. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the most unfortunate people among all these are the Lalungs they are the most deprived, and most backward. They do live farthest away from us, there is no reason why the Government should go farthest from them. These unfortunate people have came all the day from the neighbouring areas of Nowgong and Jagi Road, they catch hold of vehicles whatever vehicles they are just to come here and stand today in silent protest at the gate of the Assembly. They are peaceful people, though they look wild, they are standing peacefully outside. the Lalungs are the most neglected people, they do not want separation, they do not want huge industries. They want food, they want drinking water as we people here have food and drinking water, they want medicines, and if possible schools. It is a fact that no Deputy Commissioner, no B.D.O has ever gone to the Lalung area, not to speak of Ministers. Of course, this is a very strange fact, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. They are unknown and they have come here because Mohammed cannot go to the mountain and the mountain must come to Mohammed; they have come to amuse and entertain us in the National Durbar Hall, with all their seasonal dances, at 6.30 p.m. There you will realise how intelligent they are and yet how backward. These people have various problems, medical and financial. The financial and medical problems are the major problems in the Bhoi area today and in order to give time to the hon. Members, I conclude my earnestly requesting the Government to consider the feasibility of setting up of a Sub-division for the Bhoi Area.

* Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as one of the representatives of the Bhoi Area I fully endorse the view expressed by my colleague, Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw. This is the third time that I have had the occasion to express my opinion in this august House. In the In the first session of this Assembly I had expressed about the necessity of creating a Civil Sub-division for the Bhoi Area and during the last general discussion on the Budget I had also expressed these grievances prevailing in this Area and we are also hopeful when the hon'ble Finance Minister has assured us that this will be considered. To impress a little more I really join hands with Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw in saying that the Bhoi Area is a badly neglected area for many years and the people there, if I may be allowed to say, are still singing "God Save Our Gracious King". This shows how backward these people really are and they are still thinking that they are still under the British regime. I hope if the policy of decentralisation is to be effective,  by creating this Civil Subdivision in the Bhoi Area the Government would come closer to the people and help them realise the existence of their own Government and also they will really reap the fruit of the Government which they are all along been dreaming about. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had also spoken in my last speech that the Bhoi people's Durbar had moved for setting up of a Regional Council of that area. That means they are dreaming, thinking and expecting some sort of a decision-making body to give them real upliftment. But the only thing which stood in the way of their aims and objectives was that when they approached the leaders, who are also now the Ministers and leaders in the Government and expressed their grievances, the opinion of the then leaders was something like this : "Today we are having our vital problem and that is the movement of the Hills people and if you are really want to get your demand, you must help us and sympathise with us so that when we get our own Government we will consider your grievances after attainment of a full statehood". So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I now remind the Ministers and other leaders to look into this matter and see that assurance made on that day will be implemented so that their dream will now become a reality and not only a scheme on paper.

Shri Grosswell Mylliemngap :- Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I associate myself with the views expressed by the hon. Members. Actually when I talk about the living conditions of those people in the Bhoi Area when I talk about the living conditions of those people in the Bhoi Area I cannot but feel as if they are the semi-human beings and not as we are. Words fail to express how the people are living there;  there is no main communication, there is no drinking water, there is nothing of the sort. The Government officials or Government personnel used to be available in these areas are only the people from the Malaria-Department and this Malaria Department is really successful in that part of the country and had it not been for this Department, I think, even up till now nobody would dare to penetrate or go into these areas and we would  not have been able to find human beings there. Therefore, when the Government agreed on principle to open a Civil Sub-division in that part of the State, or that part of the area which is contiguous with three Districts: Mikir Hills, Nowgong and Kamrup, and before we create a new Sub-division there, I feel that.....

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Finance, Minister) :- May I intervene, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The hon. Member referred to the area during the Budget discussion. There is no definite statement that we agreed on principle as already mentioned by the hon. Member. We simply stated that the Government would consider. 

(Voices : We appeal to your sympathy)

Shri Grosswell Mylliemngap :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if that is the stand of the Government I would rather change my course of deliberation. So, Sir, if the Government has not actually accepted on principle to create a Sub-division, I feel that they should now accept it on principle (voices - Yes, Yes ) so that those people who are really poverty striken, striken by disease and many other things can also joint hands with the rest of the Meghalayans in expressing or feeling that they have also got their own Government so that they can also have a share and right to bring their grievances to the notice of the Government. Sir, there is an area where nobody could go. It is somewhere in the Bhoilymbong, Kyrdem Mawlasnai adjoining Mikir Hills. It is very essential that a road from Bhoilymbong  to Mawlasnai be considered by the Government. Coming down to Amjong, bordering Kamrup and Nowgong, the people there are more or less like those living on an island. There is a river, Umiam, from the north and also from the other side, a river Umsiang. During the rains the people there are being secluded; they cannot come out, neither can anyone go in. So, Sir, I feel that some sort of a bridge or a motorable bridge is very much essential to connect this part of our State with the rest of the State. With these few words, Sir, I resume my seat. 

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- The House stands adjourned till 2 p.m. today.

        (The Assembly met at 2 P.M. with the Speaker in the Chair.)

Mr. Speaker :- Now let us begin our discussion and Mr. Dlosing Lyngdoh, will take part in the discussion.

Shri Dlo Singh Lyngdoh (Umroi S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to associate myself with the Motion moved by the hon. Member from Mawhati, Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw, regarding creation of Civil Sub division in the Bhoi area. Bhoi area is known as the granary of the state and it is also the source of power generation in the State of Meghalaya. If we want to develop our agriculture and also raise the socio-economic position and standard of living of the people of that area, we have first to meet the aspirations of the people for a separate Civil Subdivision for Bhoi area and also solve the long standing political inconvenience of the Bhoi people who are very far away from Shillong. And it is due to this long distance of the area from Shillong, that some parts of that area have been taken away from this District by the Assam Government. So to solve this problem I think it is proper time for the Government to create a political new Sub-division separately for the benefit of the people as well as the State as a whole. But Mr. Speaker, Sir, I refer to the saying of the hon. Member who said that the particular word 'Bhoi' is a humble word and it is underestimated for this and for that but actually it is not a humble word. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I may also refer to another point that this particular region of the State in the District of Khasi Hills is left entirely to the step motherly treatment of the Government which I cannot agree at all because most of the developmental work is done in that area especially in my constituency, Umroi I am proud that most of the multipurpose projects have been taken up in that area. So I suppose a Civil Subdivision is a necessity for the Bhoi area and I hope it is the best time for the Government to try to solve this problem and meet the need of the people there by creating a Civil Sub-division as soon as possible. So Mr. Speaker, Sir, with these few words, I resume my seat.  

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh (Pariong S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to say a few words in support of the Motion moved by the hon. Member from Mawhati. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the mover of the Motion has mostly referred to the backwardness of the Bhoi area. It is a fact Mr. Speaker, Sir, that this Bhoi area within the Bhoi Development Block is one of the most backward areas in the State.

Mr. Speaker :- According to the mover of the Motion, Bhoi Development Block forms part of Mairang Block.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- Yes Sir, I just want to refer to Marmain a place 20 miles from Nongpoh where, I went for opening of a Primary School. I found to my surprise that it was place where they used to sacrifice human beings in one camp in olden days. I was told by those people like that. But Sir, I found in 1966 only that the people there were all along out of touch with the rest of the country.

Mr. Speaker :- What sacrifice do you mean?

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- There was human sacrifice. Sir, in ancient days and they say, people in ancient times used to sacrifice human beings and only in 1966, I found that when they received the M.D.C., they built one tent for the Executive Member, one tent for the MDC and one for the peons and the way they received was like that when they received the British political officers some time in the last century. And when they demonstrated some cultural show, they brought all their spears shields to the reception place and when I asked them how they got all these they said 'we used them in ancient times for killing the Rhinos and elephants and all that'. But when I asked whether they kill so now-a-days they said 'No' because the Government Bahadur did not allow us.

Mr. Speaker :- You mean for creation of Subdivision.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- I mean that the area is very backward or out of touch, they never see the D.D., they never see the Minister. They never know that they are free from the Britishers of course, one Minister has been representing that area for the last two terms during the Assam regime in the Assam Assembly but they have never seen an M.D.C. or M.L.A. Unfortunately, during the last term no local man had been representing the area in this august House.

        Sir, another thing I found that during the last two terms Government had tried to help and develop this area by giving all facilities I have seen all chips and pumps and what not for agricultural improvement of the Bhoi area. This are has been given attention even by the UNESCO and the WHO some time, but these things have been rusting and now they disappeared from Bhoi area without using them there. I do not know exactly what is the real practice by the Block Development Officers which used to be there all along when they have done nothing for the development of that area thereby deprived the people of the benefits which are being enjoyed in other parts of the State. So the creation of a Sub-division in that area is necessary as an alternative attempt mainly to bring nearer the administration to our people living in that area. So if we at least, within our Government purview, take into consideration all these things I think is will be very helpful. Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I may say, through you that within the capability that this Government can do, if a Civil subdivision is created for this area as defined by the previous speakers, this civil subdivision will help a lot to bring about quick development in that area. It will also help the poor people who are ignorant and have been strained very much for attending Shillong offices specially court offices here. Due to their poverty and ignorance, these people could not bring forward their grievances to the Government either to the D.C's office or any other offices for their redress. It at all they came to Shillong there are certain people or agents who used to represent them in the premises of the D.C. Office and who used to exploit them. So, by creating this civil subdivision they will be brought closer to the administration and I think it will help a lot to bring about all-round development and also raise their standard of living. So, with these few words, Mr. Speaker, Sir I support the motion that has been moved by the hon. Member, Prof. M.N. Majaw.

* Prof Peter G. Marbaniang ( Laitumkhrah) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, speaking on the motion of creating a civil subdivision in the Bhoi Area within the Bhoi Area Development Block. I would like to say that this is a very important subject. It is a matter of public importance. sir, the Bhoi Area-it is a backward area. But at the same time, it is a very fertile area; I would say it is a granary of the Khasi Hills. There are vast paddy fields, thick forests and there is a scope a great potentiality for development of fisheries and all things. Sir, I will not overstate the fact by trying to trace their ancient time. I will, Sir, say that here in the hills in the ancient times, one form of sacrifice or the other took place. 

Mr. Speaker :- This is a matter of history.

Prof. Peter G. Marbaniang :- Sir, I won't take the history from the ancient time. But, Sir, I would say that it is a fact that the first Development Block in the Khasi-Jaintia Hills District was established in the Bhoi Area in the fifties. Sir, with the coming of a Block the people of the area have taken advantages of the different schemes initiated by the Block. But still it is a matter of great wonder that today, our hon. Members from the other side, insist that this area is the most backward area in Khasi Hills. Sir, I want to bring to the notice of the House that it is not a fact that no Minister had ever visited that part of the Bhoi Area. I remember myself and the Minister-in-charge of Community Development now that in 1971 we went and visited all these areas of Mawlasnai and other parts.

Mr. Speaker :- But the contention of Prof. Majaw is that nobody has visited the Lalung area.

Prof. Peter G. Marbaniang :- Exactly, Lalung area is not very far from this area.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Sir, on a point of information. The Lalung area is very very far away from Mawlasnai.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Sir, civil sub-division is not for the Lalung.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- I was speaking of the Lalungs...

Mr. Speaker :- In fact, Prof. Majaw brought the resolution for the creation of a civil subdivision for the entire Bhoi Area covered by the Bhoi Area Development Block. But in his speech he further clarified that the area which has covered by Mairang Block should be included that is, a part of that Block on the eastern side is the Lalung areas.

Prof. Peter G. Marbaniang :- Exactly, Sir, that is what I want to inform the House that Mr. E. Bareh went and inspected these areas.

Prof M.N. Majaw :- You mean Lalung? (Exactly) (Prof. M.N. Majaw-which village?) I do not remember all those villages.

Mr. Speaker :- I think the hon. Member should have patience. I would also refer to the hon. Member who made the statement that no dignitaries had ever visited the Lalung area. I for one had visited the area a number of times.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- To that extent I stand corrected, Sir.

Prof. Peter G. Marbaniang :- Thank you, Sir. So coming to the motion, Sir, according to the 1961 Census, the area that the Bhoi Area Development Block covered was 544.33 sq. miles and there were 272 villages and the population was 28,188. Well, Sir, looking at these figures, I am inclined to say that the demand for a subdivision is not justified. But then considering the fact that this area, was claimed by many hon. Members that it is still a backward area and also considering the fact that the first Department Block was established in this area I feel, Sir, that there is something lacking in the administrative set-up. Well Sir, I am very happy that the Government has informed this House that they are considering the matter sympathetically I for one would request that if a civil subdivision is not found feasible because of financial implications or for any other consideration which the Government feels but in view of the backwardness of this area in view of the largeness of this area and in view of the fertility and other forest potentialities of this area and in view of the need to extend the facilities of administrative machinery to the people living in this area, at least our Government should see that some sort of administrative unit should be created as first step in order to ease the situation in this area. With these few words, Sir, I resume my seat. 

*Shri Blooming Shallam (Jowai S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are discussing about the creation of a new Sub-Division in the Bhoi are as argued and pleaded by a number of hon. Members. As a matter of fact, I personally have some views of my own for having a Sub-division for the Bhoi area. I think also I have endorsed the views expressed by one of the members who represent the Bhoi area. When I endorsed these views, I do not actually mean that a new Sub-division should be created overnight. The Government has to examine carefully to see as mentioned by my friend, the financial implications. Backwardness is there and I do not believe that by creation a Sub-Division there, it will help removing that backwardness. But really I admit the fact that some steps should be taken to remove this backwardness and that through developmental works. I think in my budget speech, I spoke about having new roads, feeder roads so as to enable the leaders to meet the people in the villages. These are very important things. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have seen from my experiences in my Constituency when I will go out on tours to the interior I could reach the people by a vehicle. So, I do not see any difference between the people coming within the reach of their representative. They are in readiness to come whatever distance may be. We can see them at any time whenever we want to see them in the villages. You can meet the people, they are coming on foot for miles together. For example, 30 or 40 miles one may see the people. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not a fact that the Ministers never paid a visit to those far away places as stated by the hon. Members.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- May I intervene Mr. Speaker Sir? The hon. Member is wrong. You have just given us clarifications. Mr. Speaker, Sir, that really you don't have any difficulty in making a visit to the far off villages. I am not concerned with any other places that the Ministers are not going. But I was speaking specifically for the Lalung area.

Shri B. Shallam :- Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, but I don't know if the Ministers never visited that area of Lalungs, I never spoke of their performances. But I don't agree Mr. Speaker, Sir, that those people do not have food to eat and water to drink. I can not imagine how people can just survive without the bare necessities of life. Now, Speaker, Sir, we can not form a new Civil Sub-Division without having a first hand knowledge and also a well-through out plan of the schemes to be implemented in this regard. We should see that the real development work be given to the people. If they do not have drinking well, Government should provide them. If they do not have food to eat, I don't know why when Lalung area is very fertile, any vegetable can grow there luxuriantly. But I think it is mere laziness on the part of the Lalung people themselves. They never raise a finger to help themselves. 

Mr. Speaker :- The hon. Member should not cast any reflection on any particular tribe of the State. He can say that the people can not work hard but you can't say the people are lazy.

Shri B. Shallam :- But I feel that the Government has state that the demand for the creation of a Sub-Division, will be considered sympathetically. I feel that we are now in this Assembly in the budget session which we have a deficit budget. Out of this 7 hundred and 42 lakhs I should say we have to add more to the liability of the Government. But I am also in lined to endorse the suggestion made by sort the hon. Member, Shri Peter G. Marbaniang, that at the first instances some of administrative machineries should be extended there. But I feel that the Government should extend more development works in this area.

Mr. Speaker :- I want to give some guidelines for the subsequent speakers. It appears that the contention of the majority of the Hon. Members who have advocated for the creation of a Sub-division seems to be for acceleration of the pace of development. Mere creation of the new Civil Sub-Division is not an answer. If you want roads it is not the S.D.O. (Civil) who can construct road. If you want agriculture implements, it is through the Agriculture Department and so on and so forth. But if you really want to press for a Sub-Division, it is for some valid reasons as pointed out any one of the hon. Member to bring the Government nearer to the people. But how to justify that argument, I think we must offer concrete proposals. 

Shri Enowell Pohshna :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the motion that has been placed before the House. I have heard different ideas regarding the creation of the Civil-Sub division for the Bhoi area. I fully endorse the view that it is the necessity to have this Sub Division. Because from the point of view of administration, we have experienced that these people came from far away from the different districts, from the backward areas to get any grievances redressed. For example, Sir, if we consider the cause of between one and 400 poor people of this backward area of the district who come to Shillong for the purpose of renewal of their Guns 'license'. You will see that they are walking in the street with guns in their arm just like the soldiers ( Laughter). Therefore, how can we bring these people near to the administration. it is only by the creation of a Sub-Division as one hon. Member from the Ruling party. Mr. P.G. Marbaniang has stated about removal of the backwardness of these people. 

Mr. Speaker :- But it is his presumption only.

Shri E. Pohshna :- But Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also suggest that administrative set up in which the hon. Member himself has spoken, be implemented immediately for the creation of the Civil Sub-Division through this administrative set up. (Laughter).

Mr. Speaker :- As I have said during my intervention the hon. member may raise it longer or higher.

Prof. P. G. Marbaniang :- That is according to your interpretation. 

Shri E. Pohshna:- But Mr. Speaker, Sir, just now, I have heard from one hon. Member of the Ruling party who has spoken that there is an administrative unit to look into the affair of the backward areas. The first point I want to cite here is regarding the administration and the visits of our Ministers to these far off backward places. I may differ from my friend that there are very few places in the State that have been visited by the Minister. I differ from my friend that if there is any area which has been visited by more Ministers, even the Prime Minister, and even the President is the Bhoi area because they have to pass through Nongpoh (laughter). While passing through Nongpoh, they can come across a place where there is a major project the first project and coming to Nongpoh they can have sweet bananas, sweet fruits and so on and so forth it is the most frequently visited area. I agree with the hon. Member when he said that the difference is between Hell and Heaven. Therefore, Sir, while supporting the Motion I would like again to say one point. It is said that the first Development Block was established in this Bhoi area. That very fact shows that we have so many years in existence a Block Development but without development. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we should go for the creation of a Civil Sub-division in the Bhoi area. With these words I resume my seat.

Mr. Speaker :- May I request Mr. S.P. Swer to participate?

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, as you have rightly pointed out that if a Civil, Subdivision is to be opened in areas considering their backwardness then I can tell you, Sir, and the House that in my constituency also there is one area called Khadarshnong. 

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order, this is not the subject of the discussion.

Mr. Speaker :- Hew has referred to strengthen his point. He will come to the point within 5 minutes. 

Shri S.P. Swer :- So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think we should not consider this Subdivision for the Bhoi Area on that point alone. It is true that the area is inhabited by different people I would not say different tribes. The means of communication in the area is not upto the mark and I think there is something which the people from different parts of this district will not be able to live there. The demand for an administrative unit in that area is not so attractive as it should be because as far as we know this office has helped a lot to bring the Government nearer to the people. But if the demand is for a greater unit, I for one do not have any thing to say although I am the one who piloted a demand  for a sub-division for Cherrapunjee. I not do not any grudge that a unit, an administrative unit as suggested by Mr. P.G. Marbaniang should set up at an early date to help these people to come nearer to the Government.

Mr. Speaker :- The term unit is vague as has already been pointed out by other hon. Members. You see the Block Development is a unit of community development and the B.D.O. is the head. But what type of administrative unit, who will be the head, you should indicate that line so that we can understand that the unit is inferior or superior to a subdivision.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, such being the case, I I think it is upto the Government to decide. We can only give suggestions to the Government how to bring the Government nearer to the people of the Bhoi area (Bell Rang). So Mr. Speaker, Sir, with these words I resume my seat.

Mr. Speaker :- May I now request the Chief Minister to give a reply?.

*Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, though the motion moved by Mr. Majaw relates to the creation of a Civil Subdivision for the Bhoi areas, but before I discuss this particular subject, with your permission, I would like to suggest to the hon. member with your permission I would like to suggest to the hon. Member to consider this aspect of the matter. I would like to inform the mover of the motion and the other participants who have had occasion to put forward arguments that in order to justify the need for a Civil Sub-division for this particular area possibly there are tow consideration one is to bring the administration nearer to the people and (2) to increase the tempo of development of the area. Mr. Majaw has had occasion also to say that this area is one of the most backward areas of the State. He has made a statement with special reference to the Lalung areas. Two days back he has already informed the cause that he has brought a group of Lalungs and made them stand outside the Assembly Building so that the Government and the Officers can see with their own eyes how backward these people area. I also if I wish can bring a number of half naked Garos to stand here out side the Assembly Building. 

        I had occasion, Mr. Speaker, Sir, to suggest that in order to be effective and in order to have discussions on all these problems and a correct approach to the various issues before the House, it would be desirable for the hon. Members to take the opportunity to visit the different parts of the State and study the conditions of the people in different areas. We should not try to study the problem of a particular area or of a constituency which one had the occasion to represent. If they do so, it will not be possible for the august House and for that matter, for the Government to have a comprehensive view of the entire issue. We should be guided by the State view, Government or this particular House, which is a supreme body so far as administration is concerned so that we have may a correct picture of the State as a whole. Now, if on these two basic considerations, we are to decide the need or the urgency of creating a single Sub-Divisions for a particular area, I think the hon. Members will agree that there cannot be one single Sub-Division in the State. There will be a number of Sub-Divisions if we want only to bring the administration nearer to the people. There are areas in the Khasi Hills, there are areas in the Jaintia Hills and so also in the Garo Hills which are equally backward if not more inaccessible areas in the State. As Mr. Pohshna has pointed out over the inaccessibility I think the entire area or a part of the particular area will be served if you had the occasion to visit other parts of the State of these three districts. It think with more emphasis, with more conviction all the hon. Members would have put forward the justification also. In fact, the Government has been receiving a number of such demands from the various parts of the State. I would, therefore, in the set of the circumstances, request the hon. Members from both sides to examine the possible repercussion. If under the arguments put forward to this august House today and if Government is convinced of these arguments that the creation of a single Sub-Division for Bhoi Areas is a must, then under similar ground would similar demand come from other areas. I wish that not only the demand of this particular area but similar demand for the very same reason would have been met simultaneously. I would be happy then if our financial position allows us. Hon. Members very recently have had occasions to express concern about the deficit to the tune of 7 crores. I had also occasion to inform the House the need for restraint on economy in view of the rigid action of the Reserve Bank of India in the matter of overdraft. Let us be practical having been compelled by the various demands, demand from the various parts of the State for the creation of a civil Sub-Division. Is it based on actual consideration or is it because of some political consideration. If we agree to that we have to meet the financial crisis and the very purpose of creating the civil Sub-Division will be defeated. If we cannot meet the necessary staff, to the extent necessary then whatever amount spent for development of the various parts of the State might have been diverted. So it is matter of choice for us with the present financial condition how to proceed and how to improve both the economic condition of the people and also the administration of the State. Whether it is only by creating a number of Sub-Divisions that the people can be brought nearer to the administration or whether there are some other ways to bring the administration nearer to the people. Mr. Pohshna, while supporting  he motion put forward the argument to justify that the people of this his area are very very far from the administration and the people have  to come to Shillong for renewal of gun license or for procuring court fees. If only on that consideration will it be desirable to consider the need for creating a single Sub-Division. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I said,, in the same constituency there will be similar need for creating of a Sub-Division. Let us examine whether there is some other way out the for reaching the administration nearer to the people without making the people to come to headquarters. It is in that context, I think my colleague from this site have suggested that some machinery, some set up or some organisation should be evolved so that we can bring the administration nearer to the people. If we are all serious about it, naturally without creating a civil subdivision also it can be done. We may select a particular area with a sizeable population and also taking into consideration the areas to be comprised within that set up. Now let us be practical about it. Suppose now we have decided to create a civil sub-division and have it located at Nongpoh. Whether it will be possible for the people of the entire Bhoi area Development Block or part of Mairang Block or the whole of Mairang block, to reach Nongpoh easily? Whether it will be easier for some of the people of that particular area to reach Shillong? Mr. Speaker, Sir, these are the facts to be taken into consideration. First of all, a thorough study should be made. Today, though not in principle, the Government had agreed to have a new sub-division i.e. Nongstoin. This was also decided by the Government of Assam. There are claims and counter claims from the people of Nongstoin when they said that they are nearer to Shillong than to Nongstoin, and do not want to be tagged to Nongstoin civil subdivision. They said "Please allow us to remain in Shillong subdivision.' As regards Simsanggiri Subdivision the people said that hey are nearer to Tura than Simsanggiri Block and there is no road to go Simsanggiri. How the Government can think of bringing this particular block within the proposed civil sub-division. Mr. Speaker, Sir, these are matters which have to be taken into consideration before you finally decide to have a new subdivision or to make some alternative arrangement to bring the people nearer the administration. Sir, I must make it very clear to the hon. Member through you, that Government is fully alive to the need of bringing the people nearer to the administration, not only in respect of Bhoi area but throughout the whole State. I was just thinking whether it will not solve the problem nearer to the administration, not only in respect of Bhoi area but throughout the whole State. I was just thinking whether it will not solve the problem if we can have more responsible Officers than the B.D.Os or to bring the administration nearer to the people would be that an officer who is posted there must have necessary powers. He must have necessary power to tackle the administrative problem, to run the day to day administration. The other possibility would be that we may decide gradually whether to have some other arrangement by which the administration. The other possibility would be that we may decide gradually whether to have some other arrangements by which the administration can be brought nearer to the people but this requires a lot of thinking and a lot of exercise. I think from now on we must be able to take care of the need for such arrangement of the entire State, otherwise if we take piedemel decisions only because of the demand from this or that area, we will only land in difficulty and our programmes will not be implemented. However I am not going to lengthen my speech. My colleague, the Finance Minister, the other day has promise to consider this demand sympathetically. Government will consider this and consistent with the present financial position and also the need of similar arrangements for bringing the administration nearer to the people what measures should be taken immediately. But we must keep in view the need of the entire State. I will repeat, the desire of the Government is to consider this need of bringing the administration nearer to the people of that area but at the same time, as somebody has suggested, this will not be the only measure which should be taken by the Government. But as you correctly pointed out, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have got to take into consideration of each and every part of the State. We have also to think of some other arrangement that instead of posting a senior civil officer in the Bhoi area or for that matter in any other area, because of the need and the comparative backwardness and also of the potentiality of that area whether there is any need to post higher officers of different departments. I think this is going to be more practical than having an S.D.O. there. So, this is how I think the Government should proceed in the matter. I will give an example. Let us talk of the early days. Even if we talk of the car licenses, at least in Garo Hills, the practice was this. During the winter, the D.C. or the senior E.A.C., would send a tour programme to each administrative unit-here in K&J. Hills may be a Sirdarship or Syiem's area - and they did not ask the people to come to Tura, they themselves went to the people. In the same way when we think about the civil subdivision, that is not the only question which must be taken into consideration. Suppose, there are a number of of cases which must be brought to the court. Now the court is only located at Shillong. Well, Government can think of making some other alternative arrangements. We know that in the good old days, during the British days cases were not tried only in Tura Court. There is what they call Peshkar. I cannot remember exactly, but something like that, may be Bench Clerk.  They accompanied the Magistrates and cases were fixed and tried. Now we will have to examine in what way the administration other than developmental activities should be brought nearer to the people and what measures should be taken. In this respect, Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me assure the hon. Members of that area that Government has decided to give a sympathetic consideration to this proposal. But it may not be up to the expectations of my friends on the other side. Whatever it is, since we have decided that there is a need for bringing the administration nearer to the people, we will still consider it and see in what way the administration can be brought nearer to the people.

Mr. Speaker :- Prof. Majaw, only five minutes. 

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- I would first of all like to assure the hon. Member from Laitumkhrah that by using the word 'Bhoi', I was referring to certain persons, but used in a delicate sense and being myself partly of Bhoi origin, I do not have the slightest thought.

Mr. Speaker :- For that matter, according to the legends, all the Khasis came down from Sohpetbneng.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Yes quite right. I also thank the hon. Member from Laitumkhrah for pointing out that the Bhoi Development Block was set up 20 years ago. It reminds me of what happened when a soldier in the British Army refused to accept a slice of bread. he would not east it and the offices said that if it had been Napoleon, he would have eaten it and the soldiers said 'yes'. In Napoleon days, it was fresh and there 20 years ago, it is already ancient. This Bhoi Development Block is still in its predestined ancient condition. Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding figures, I quote from the 1961 Census figures. Census officers never visited some of the villages. The latest figures I have from the Meghalaya Planning Department and these are the current figures. The Bhoi Development Block has 71,000 persons.  

Mr. Speaker : You should rely on the latest Census figures. 

Prof. M. N. Majaw : I have some trust in the Planning Department. My main argument, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is that I was giving a comparison that when the Government has agreed in principle to set up a Subdivision in Nongstoin my argument was taht since the Nongstoin Block alone has 54,506 persons and the Subdivision is to be set up is by the combination of the Nongstoin Block. 

Shri E. Bareh (Minister ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, Nongstoin Block is the biggest Block in the Khasi Hills. 

Mr. Speaker : To create a Subdivision, it is based not only population, but bases on many other factors. 

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- The Members in the Ruling Party over-ruled my figures and I will have to make the officers over-rule them.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have got my own figures about the area and population, but I said that it is not only based on population alone that a Subdivision has to be created. There is also a proposal that Mairang may also be taken as part of Mairang Block. Take for instance, if the proposed Subdivision is located at Nongpoh, whether the people would be easier to go to Nongpoh or Shillong. For example, about Chokpot or about some areas, it was proposed to be included within Nongstoin area. These are the factors. I am not going to reject the proposal on population basis, but I have agreed to consider this.

*Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was not replying to the Hon'ble Chief Minister, but to the hon. Member from Laitumkhrah. Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I quite agree that there are many problems for Government, but these are matters for the Government to settle. In public matters, one can never satisfy. A man will be caught in so many dilemmas, but a decision has to be taken. I welcome of course the alternative proposal if it is actually translated into action and not just words as the hon. Members has said. I hope it will turn into action on some future date. I was emphasising this because of the need to bring the administration closer to the people and the people closer to the administration. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the difference between Garo Hills and Khasi Hills is quite large. We all very well know that we have in this House more Members in the Ruling Party from Garo Hills than from the Khasi Hills. The reason is apparent to them. The Garo leaders always to to the people and understand their problems. During the British time, the officers went from village to village helping the people in various matters like issue of gun licenses etc. But in this district, they have to offer two or three hundred rupees even for procuring a gun license. The Garo M.L.As are very much active and have more love for the people. Mr. Speaker, Sir, here we have got all the Members from the Bhoi area in the Opposition. There is not a singly Member on the other side.

Mr. Speaker :- They are not in the same boat.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Yes, Sir, they are sailing in a bigger boat very commodious boat. The Ruling Party is trying to get them into their boat.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- You may be the one to come first.

*Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the utterances made by the hon. Member from Jaintia Hills about water. How can his people live without water. In Amdubighat in the Lalung area, we are offered water from the well where only a dog can bathe, but we have to drink it.  We have to sleep with the lepers. If you know these problems, you would not like to go there. Regarding those who are outside the Assembly gates, I humbly submit that hey come in dancing dress and not in their daily costumes. This is not the dress they wear everyday. The Chief Minister told me that he is very much impressed with their dancing dress. But I beg to submit that they do not dance every day. The leaders of the tribes who have here are slightly better than the common people. But there is no index of the real condition of these people. Finally, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the Hon'ble Chief Minister for the assurance given by him and the sympathy shown. 

Mr. Speaker : The discussion on the subject is closed. Let us pass on to item No.4 of the List of Business. Prof. Majaw to move. 

Prof. M.N. Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, under Rule 301 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business of the Assembly, I rise to move that "This Assembly do now take into consideration, the language test to be passed by Police personnel of all categories serving under the Government of Meghalaya".

Mr. Speaker : Motion is moved. You may initiate the discussion. 

*Prof. M.N. Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, at the outset, I wish to make it clear that I donot intend to be communal in  my approach to the problem. But I cannot help to be communal. I do not want to hurt the good sense the languages of the Plains, which have produced great poets, great thinkers and writers. It is a fact, Mr. Speaker, Sir. But it must also be admitted that even the creation of Sixth Schedule under then Constitution is also communal, the reservation seats for Assembly or for the Parliament is also partly communal if you can call it so. But  its real intention is not to be ultra- communal. The real purpose is to protect the racial identity of a particular race. 

Mr. Speaker : It is not communal when provision has been made in the Constitution. In so far as the reservation of seats and special facilities are concerned, these are given only to a certain class of people who are considered to be still backward.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I come to the bigger issue. That is when we were under Assam. The Assam Police was governed by a particular administrative rules, i.e., particular Police Rules. But those Rules have become outdated n this present context and new set of Rules have to be evolved in order to meet the circumstances of today. There was a time when there were only two languages, i.e., Bengali and Assamese, spoken by the vast number of people. But when Meghalaya has become a fully separate State, these two languages, although still there are quiet a number of people who speak these languages in this State, should not be made compulsory. Mr. Speaker, Sir, if we are to lay down Rules making the languages of the minorities compulsory, I think there will be chaos in India and while we will respect the sentiment and feelings of friends from the minority communities, we will also like to point out absolutely as a matter of principle that the tribal languages in this State, especially where 82 per cent of the people are tribals, should be compulsory and the languages of the minorities should not be compulsory. Today it is a fact that either Bengali or Assamese is compulsory for a person joining the Police Force. This is a a very unfortunate situation. It is one of the reasons why our hill boys have not been able to join Police Force and those who could enter there managed somehow this language barrier with the help or connivance of the man of great character when I mentioned earlier during the Finance Minister's Budget discussion. But I would not repeat the mane of that man of great character and I think no tooth paste in this worlds can clean my mouth if I utter his name. 

        In fact the Head Assistant of the S.P.'s Office, will take Rs.50 per candidate for supplying the answer scripts to the tribal candidates. Even one Magistrate told me privately that this had been done, otherwise how they could get the promotion. So in the Test when the invigilators are taking betel nut, cigarettes etc. in one corner of the Hall, that great gentleman, who is the real supreme, being distribute the answers. Later on or earlier he would collect his honoured fees. How, this is a very very unfortunate state of affairs. It is totally unjustified. I have no grudge at all for Bengali or Assamese language and I have got quite a good number of friends from them. But it is matter of principle. We have fought for a separate State where the majority of the people of this State are hill tribes. We demanded hill state and now we have achieved it. So the languages of the Hills alone shall be compulsory not only in the Police Force but in all other Departments also under the Government. 

(Mr. Deputy Speaker in the Chair ). 

Shri Maham Singh (Mawprem) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would also like the support the stand that has been stated by the hon. Member from Mawhati. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I believe so far as the Police Forest is concerned, we should not make Assamese or Bengali languages compulsory for the promotion or for their official duties. I feel that wee should make instead Khasi or Garo as one of the compulsory languages to be learned by the Policemen in order that they  may be able to carry out their official duties efficiently. It is very very essential that they should know the language of the people with whom they are working. Now, the Police personnel have to go for investigation of cases, they will have to take statements of the witness connected with these cases. If they do not know the language of the people, it will be a great handicap for them to find out the real facts. Therefore it has become very necessary that they should learn the languages of our people, i.e., the tribal people. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I feel that the Government should seriously consider this issue and make these two languages, Khasi and Garo and may be Hindi also, compulsory for all the police personnel so that they may be able to discharge their duties more efficiently and effectively.  

Shri Enowell Pohshna : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the motion and I would not like to speak more, because as far as Police Force is concerned, I know that our ruling party Members are always in favour of the languages other than that of Meghalayans. So far as the Meghalayans are concerned, we have not come to a decision as to what particular language that should be made compulsory. So while supporting the motion, I would request the Chief Minister not to give assurance only this time but at least they should show some sympathetic attitude by accepting this motion. 

Shri Onwardleys Well Nongtdu ( Sutnga S.T.) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while supporting the motion I would like to point out some facts. In the past, those Policemen who were required to pass Assamese, Hindi, etc., for instance, the Assistant Sub-Inspectors, Inspectors of Police were not getting promotion. Even though they have been able to get promotion but they cannot draw their increments. Some of them whom I have known are in service for 10 to 15 years and have just passed the two languages mentioned only two years back. It was only after those two years that they have been bale to draw their increments and they lost the benefit of services rendered in the years before. So, this is one of the main issues or one of the main draw backs in the service of the Policeman and he is tempted to resort to corruption., If a policeman who has 5 or 6 children is  not able to draw his increments annually in time and if he is to draw his basic pay for a number of years, it is very difficult for him to manage in those years but to find other means to support the family. Besides, the policemen have to write or to submit their reports in  English language. I don't find why it is so necessary that they should pass Assamese or Bengali languages. It is very essential that they should pass Assamese or Bengali languages. It is very essential that they should be qualified and they should know how to read and write in English whereas they may be able just to speak the other two languages. So, it is better now that the Government may consider or reconsider the language tests to be passed by the police personnel and fix only the main languages spoken in the State to be passed by them and may just arrange for replacement of the other languages of the m minority in the State.  

*Shri Humphrey Hadem  : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just rise to support the motion which the hon. Member from Mawhati had come forward just in time. And in supporting the motion, Sir, I would like also to say that previously by making the two languages, namely, Assamese and Bengali applicable or that it is a 'must' for the test for the personnel of this particular department, the previous Government had not made any blunder or mistake. Because on hits department the employees holding the posts are being  transferred from one place to another and they have to go to various places inhabited by Assamese peaking people and the Police Department or the Police Officer as well as he Police Constables are to have a direct contact as stated by one of my friends from this side for investigation and enquiries of all matters. As such, the knowledge of language of dialect in that particular area is very essential. But since we are now having our own State, Sir, where probably, the M.L.P.s' will not be transferred anywhere to A.P.s', I hope it will be right at this juncture Sir, that the Government will take serious consideration for revising or waiving this policy of language test to be passed by the Police personnel. I would like to suggest that it may be confined atleast to the languages or even the dialects in the districts composing this State of ours. With these few words I resume my seat giving full support to the motion. 

*Shri Williamson A. Sangma ( Chief Minister ) : I thought Government's attention of this particular question could have been easily obtained through a question without bringing a motion. But since the hon. Member has decided to choose of bring a motion and to get the attitude of the Government on this particular question, I will give a brief reply. I would like to request the Member to be a little more acquainted with the North Eastern ( Re- organisation) Act. (At this stage Deputy Speaker vacated the Chair for the Speaker). I am referring to section 64(1). I have had occasion to inform the House during the early discussions of various matters that not only Police Officers but the other officers other than All India Service including the staff who have manned the Secretariat and the Directorates and different categories of services, are still on deputations. They are still treated as on deputation from the Government of Assam. I may also inform the House that the Government is taking active steps to come to an agreement under a particular section of the Act. After which we shall be able to finally decide both with regard to officers and staff who are to permanently come into the Meghalaya Service. Till then, as they are still treated on deputation, they are still governed by the Rules and Regulations framed by the Government of Assam. I would, therefore, make it very clear the need for learning Assamese or Bengali by the Police Officers. from the rank of Assistant Inspectors onward. But this will not be  applicable once we can completely go for our Police set-up including officers. They will then be governed by the rules to be framed by the Government of Meghalaya.         

        All Police Constables are not required to pass the language test. It is only from the rank of Assistant Inspector of Police and Constables who are due for promotion. Whatever it is, all these rules are laying down the conditions of service of the Meghalaya Police and also the need for passing the language test. Now, I would like to inform the House about the basic consideration of the Government of Meghalaya with regard to language policy. As correctly pointed out by the hon. Member that this department, I may say, not only this department but also other departments and officers, to be effective and to be thorough in discharging their duties, they must know the local language, specially so for the Police Officers who have to investigate cases. 

        Therefore, without any form of argument, naturally police officers would have to learn the languages used by the people of Meghalaya as pointed by some of the Speakers, since they are transferred from one district to another. Now, the main tribal languages spoken in this State, I think, would be Khasi and Garo. Therefore, to be more effective and thorough in the discharge of their duties and responsibilities, it is expected that they should learn the tribal language, of course, English there and we are still adopting English. We have also to see about the need to learn some languages which are used in the State. We may have to think in that way, not only that the duties of the Police Organisation should be made effective not only to certain section of people but to all sections of the population. Naturally, of course, these two languages would be spoken by more than 80 per cent of the population as pointed out by Prof. Majaw, the mover of this motion. But- we have to think about the remaining section of the population also and to make the officers in the Department to be effective and thorough we must think about it. It will not be possible to make any indication, but I must make it very clear that the present rule by which the Police Officers are being governed, will not have the force of law. I would like the Garo Members to have a little patient because this agreement under section 64(1) is yet to be arrived at. In fact, as far as the Government is concerned, we are anxious but we have not been able to get the equal attention and co-operation from the other side. But we are trying to come to this agreement as early as possible and then we shall be able to have our own set of rules, including the language to be passed and this and that. 

        With regard to a certain very serious complaint brought out by the mover of the motion, I would like to say that instead of repeating the same complaint on the floor of the House, it would be proper that such complaint with specific charges against any officer or persons concerned should be brought to this notice of the authorities concerned. The mover has also alleged that in conducting languages test, he has had the occasion to see that officers are taking Rs.10 or Rs.15 from the poor people. 

Prof. M.N. Majaw : Not Rs.151 but Rs. 501 Sir. 

Shri W.A. Sangma ( Chief Minister ) : It appears that the hon. Member has a definite knowledge and I would expect him to come with specific complaint or charges to the authority and help in the establishment of these allegations. It no use using this forum for remedy of the complaints. 

Mr. Speaker : I may point out to the hon. Member that so far ass the case of complaint against the officer is concerned it is the general convention that he cannot frame any prima facie case against that officer on the floor of the House, but he will have to go to the court of law or to higher authorities. 

Shri W.A. Sangma ( Chief Minister ) : I repeat it, Sir, it is no use using this House as a forum of complaint against the officer as there are other ways out. 

        As to the question of giving an assurance wanted by Mr. Pohshna, I say that is a must that the Police Officers should be made to learn the local languages, to be effective in the discharge of their duties. As soon as complete separate police set-up is organised for Meghalaya, necessary rules will be framed to bring these rules into effect. 

Prof. M.N. Majaw : Sir, I would like to get a clarification from the Chief Minister as to whether the officers carrying on their shoulders the letters 'M.L.P.' do they still belong to the Assam Police?

Shri W.A. Sangma ( Chief Minister ) : Well, just to distinguish we have the badges but as far as absorption is concerned, according to section laid down in 64(1) of the N.E. Areas (Re-organisation) Act. 1971, I shall read the relevant portion:

        "Such persons serving in connection with the affairs of the existing state of Assam (including persons borne on any cadre of that State and serving under the Government of the autonomous State of Meghalaya or on deputation to any other Government or authority) as may be determined at any time before or after the appointed day -

(a)

by agreement between the Government of the existing State of Assam and the Government of the autonomous of Meghalaya or between the Government of the Stat of Assam and the Government of the State of Meghalaya, as the case may be, or 

(b)

in default of any such agreements, by the Central Government, may, not withstanding anything in their terms of appointment or their conditions of service -

(i)

in a case referred to in clause (a), by one or more orders made by the Government of the existing State of Assam or the Government of the State of Assam, as the case may be, or 

(ii)

in a case referred to clause (b), by one or more orders made by the Central Government,
be required to serve in connection with the affairs of the State of Meghalaya and every such person shall accordingly be deemed to have been allocated to that  State will effect from such date as may be specified in the order. 

It is yet to take place and practically all these Police Officers and personnel are on deputation from the Government of Assam. 

Prof. Martin N. Majaw : "Technically' means 'legally'?

        So, Sir, are we to understand that all the fanfare, the beautiful invitation cards issued and the huge crowd that assembled in the Polo Ground for the handing over of the Police. 

Mr. Speaker : I think the hon. Member has put the question in a round -about manner. The  Chief Minister has already clarified that, for all practical purposes these officers and personnel are under the service of the Government of Meghalaya but in so far as the rules to the framed are concerned, he said that it is yet to he finalised and that the finalisation will  come only when the agreement is signed between the two Governments. 

Prof. Martin N. Majaw : May we have some approximate idea when this finalisation or agreement  will take place? I will request the Chief Minister to give us some idea on this issue particularly about the language test and condition of service. 

Mr. Speaker : I think I will not request the Chief Minister to do that because this issue is about the language test and not the condition of service. 

Prof Martin N. Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just want to touch upon the other remark of the Chief Minister. I do not understand Mr. Speaker, Sir, but I would like to point out. 

Mr. Speaker : Not on the floor of the House. I will tell you that all those details that you have been discussion throughout the whole evening on this subject and most of the points that were raised were outside the scope of this motion. 

Prof. Martin N. Majaw : The particular points, Mr. Speaker, Sir, were not on bringing specific charges against the officer concerned. 

Mr. Speaker : Still I can say that the Chief Minister is not bound to reply and give further clarification because it is not in connection with this motion.

Prof. Martin N. Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sri, if I may interrupt for just half a minute. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is a question of human problem. What guarantee can the Government give to a humble officer, who has his life before him, for him to give evidence, when this very same person is held responsible for many cases. There had been an excellent S.P. who had special training in the Scotland Yard. If as an A.S.I. he starts his career by giving evidence against his superiors what guarantee will he have for the future?

( Interruptions )

Mr. Speaker : This has been uttered by a Public Leader, by not less a person than the hon. Member of this  august House. What can a poor Government servant do. Please do not undermine the status of the hon. Members of this House. 

Prof.  Martin N. Majaw : Oh no, Sir. This is why I have brought it to this House because the status of the offer was so high. 

Mr. Speaker : The status is very high; inside and outside the House and much respected. 

Mr. Martin N. Majaw : So, Sir, I would request the Chief Minister. 

( Interruptions )

Shri Williamson A. Sangma ( Chief Minister ) : I will only consider about the language which must be welcomed. 

Mr. Speaker : That is within the purview of this motion. So now, the discussion on the subject is closed. 


Discussion under Rule 49

        Now, let us come to Item No.5. Mr. Humphrey Hadem to raise a discussion under Rule 49 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business of the Assembly. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem : Mr. Speaker, Sir, under Rule 49 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business of the Assembly, I beg to raise a discussion on a matter arising out of answers to Unstarred Question No.3 laid in the House on the 22nd June, 1972, on the subject of "Constitution of the Shangpung Middle English School Building".

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved and now you can raise a discussion. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem ( Mynso - Raliang S.T. ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Shangpung M.E. School was a private organisation. It was managed by the Mission and established about 60 years ago. This Middle English section has been provincialised about as little less than 15 years or so and the Government, after provincialisation of the sain M.E. section, did not take immediate steps for the construction of the own building but had been utilising the same building which was manage by the same religious organisation at a very nominal  rent of about Re.1.00 per month, if not per annum, I am stating subject to correction. But at the same time we have also seen that poor organisation had to undertake the repairs and other necessary maintenance works out of that nominal rent of Re.1.00 per month. This nominal rent comes to only Rs.12 in a year out of which the religious organisation will have to bear the maintenance costs. At the Same time, Sir, when provincialisation of this sections was taken up the organisation has undertaken another bigger task of management of anther section, the High Schools section and this section had to be accommodated in the same building. As a matter of fact, the organisation have approached the  government time and again for taking necessary steps for having their own building to accommodate at lest the M.E. section. But up till now, Sir, as it appeared from the very answers on the 22nd, it seems that the delay has succeeded delay and nothing has been done by the Government. Of course, the Government have promised to take the section immediately, and in view of that promise a Clan land has also been made available to the government as the site for that building. 

Mr. Speaker : I think about that answer, the Government has already given a reply that the work has been settled and allotted. It means Government has taken action on that. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem : Of course, I want to point out that at the very beginning the action of the Government itself for construction of that particular building has been very slow. Anyhow, it appears according to the answers that administrative approval took place some time on the 10th of March 1969 and the technical sanction some time on April 18, 1970. But I would like to bring to the notice of the House through you, Sir, that the provincialisation had taken place not less than 10 years ago.

Mr. Speaker : That is the responsibility of the erstwhile Government but not of this Government. If  you attach importance to the work done by the erstwhile Government, I do not think the present Government will be able to give any reply. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the King is dead, long live the King. I think at the same time, that assets and liabilities of the previous Government are to be borne by the present Government. As such, I am only exposing the facts as they are to show how the construction work was started from the very beginning. Then now, Sir, let me give a real answer which appears in this question that 'if So, when' the Government. in 1969 made............. I know, Sir, this Government at that time..........

Mr. Speaker : No  in 1969, it is not this Government. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem : No,  Sir, I mean some time is February 1970 that the technical sanction has been accorded to by this Government. 

Mr. Speaker : Let me remind the hon. Member that the Assam Government still functioned here in Meghalaya up to the 1st April 1970 or the 2nd of April, 1970 when the autonomous State came into being when you have cited and example as February, 1970, it was still the responsibility of the Assam Government. Anyway, 'the King is dead, long live the King'. The Government must always try to answer but the main intention of this Rule is that you should seek further clarification to discuss on the answers by the Government on the 22nd June, 1972 to unstarred question No.3. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem : Excuse me, Sir, I am  coming to that now. 

Mr. Speaker : Sir, I am helping you because you have been given only half an hour for discussion but once you start giving the details of the history, I think you will not be able to complete even in two hours.

*Shri Humphrey Hadem : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to take a little more time of the House. As such I would request you at least to allow me some time to discuss the  matter. As was revealed now it appears that since September 1969, the Government had allotted the work to one Contractor, Shri Simon Passah and up till now Sir, after a lapse of nearly there years, we have received a  reply from the Hon'ble Minister -in- charge that the work is in progress. So, I would like to bring to the notice of the House that on the 24th of last month a date was fixed by the Superintending Engineer calling upon the aforesaid contractor to show cause as to why there was no progress of the work so far. So, Sir, I cannot understand why Government did not cancel the work allotted to that particular contractor. You will be astonished to know Sir, that this contractor did not have the least intention to do the work at all because since that particular date of 26th November 1969, nothing had been done. But at present, construction of the school building is done only in some portion, e.g., levelling of the foundation, collection of some soling stones, etc. So, I would request the Government particularly the Minister-in- charge, to make a physical verification if  possible tonight or at least make a surprising checking and  he will find that what has been stated is absolutely by true. Now, Sir, I do want to take much time and I think it is high time now, since the work has not been done by the contractor probably because, the Government has allotted work for construction of buildings in Nongstoin and Jowai Subdivision, that government should not linger on the construction of a small building at the cost of the poor local illiterate inhabitants of that locality. I therefore, suggest to the Government that the work allotted to that contractor be cancelled and allotted to some other contractors and according to the tender agreement made between the contractor and the Government since 1969, he is to recover all the remaining portion of the work and all the parts due for that particular work. Therefore, I fervently and earnestly request the Government to take immediate steps and relieve us of this burden so   that we can see that our children could be accommodated in the new building at least by the end of this financial year. With these few words,  Sir,  I resume my seat.

Mr. Speaker : Now let the Minister-in-charge give a reply. 

Shri Grohonsing Marak ( Minister of State PWD. etc ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I never thought that this matter would be brought to the House for discussion. I thought that the question put by the hon. Member has been satisfactorily replied. 

Mr. Speaker : There are only two points raised by the hon.Member just now that you are to reply : One is that the hon. Member had come forward with the request that you personally verify whether or not the work is really in progress and secondly, his request is that if the work is not done or started then the work allotted to Shri Simon Passah be cancelled and given to another. 

Shri Grohonsing Marak : I can straight away reply. I will personally pay a visit by the last week of this month and I can assure the hon. Member at this moment that the Government will try its level best to complete the construction of the Shangpung M.E. School building within the next financial year. If this work has not been done I will cancel the Contractor. 

( Applause )

Shri Humphrey Hadem : So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to pay a tribute to the Minister. 

Mr. Speaker : You should not pay such a tribute to the Government only on an assurance that you have got all your requests. Let us now pass on to Item 6. Let us take up Resolution No.1 to be moved by Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh. 


RESOLUTION

Shri Hoping Stone Lyngdoh ( Pariong S.T. ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to move that as a major portion of the building of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly is under the occupation of the All India Radio with its studio causing acute dearth of accommodation to the office of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly Secretariat and the Members of the Assembly this Assembly strongly recommends to the Government of Meghalaya to takes immediate steps to make available all the rooms under occupation by the All India Radio to the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly, and if need be, by moving the Government of India in the Ministry of Information and Broad casting in this regard. 

Mr. Speaker : Please don't pronounce 'Mekhaloi' this is not the official pronunciation. The motion moved. 

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Well Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the House and you yourself are very much aware and acquainted with the problem of accommodation of the Assembly. The present condition Mr. Speaker, Sir, is that we have been housed in this small chamber and we are all at a loss to understand why this building has been selected for holdings our Assembly. Sir, the main difficulty is taht we have got to manage in this small House here. I believe all the Members of this House both form the Ruling party and the Opposition will agree with me that we even do not have in room to sit while attending the Assembly session; we do not have a place for lobbying. I hope you will agree with me that all the Ministers while attending the Assembly, must, in fact, have at least a separate room for discussion with the officers and also for dealing with several room for discussion with the officers and also for dealing with several matters which will come before the House every day during the session. It is also a fact that all the Ministers have no place except one small room, an opened room which is is very  inconvenient. And over and above that, we do not have a very good  and spacious visitors gallery in the  Assembly for watching the proceedings of the House. All of them were accommodated in this small Assembly within the small roof of this building. This building was constructed in such a way that some rooms will be provided for the members and also for the officers who were attached to their respective posts. Some  years ago this building as we all know, was the Legislative Council of Assam during the British times.  

Mr. Speaker : This was the old Council building used by the Britishers in the past. 

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : So, Sir, they have provided rooms for that purpose only. But now, as it is you will find from the very beginning that this buildings had been occupied by the All India Radio. And when we have got control over this building I am rather surprised to know that the All India Radio are still occupying those rooms close to our Assembly. Last time, myself and Mr. Majaw had the occasion to see the Station Director of the All India Radio in his office here in Shillong. We had discussions with him and at the first instance, he expressed finding difficulties in getting any other house for them. If another building is at all available and if they want to shift from here to the other building , it will take at least 6 months to dress the room specially the Studio, and it will take 2 months to 3 months to install all the necessary equipments for the All India Radio. Moreover, he has stated also the fact that the All India Radio Station at Shillong cannot be shifted so easily. Until and unless they get an order from the Government of India, New Delhi, they will not be able to do anything. So, Sir, we have informed the Director that because to the difficulties of the administration of the Government of India from Delhi, we are now assembling in this very small room. Therefore, I would impress upon the Government to move the Government of India in this respect, to request them to shift the All India Radio to other buildings. Uptil now, we don't see any sign and in the House Committee also we have passed certain resolutions and we have requested the Government to move the All India Radio and to vacate these two rooms as these two rooms will be allotted to this House. One for the accommodation of the members of the Ruling Party and the other for the members of the Opposition Party at least to solve the immediate need. But nothing has come out so far. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we move this motion that this House will impress upon the Government of India in the Ministry of Information & Broadcasting to direct the All India Radio Shillong to vacate this building so that we can have it for our own use or for that matter, if we can not get the entire building, only those two rooms from the All India Radio will do for the present. With these words, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hope all the hon. Members of the House are fully aware of this. I would request that this Resolution be passed today, in order to serve the purpose of all concerned. With these few words, I  resume my seat. 

Ruling by the Speaker 

Mr. Speaker : Before call upon other hon. Members to participate on this Resolution, may I point out certain misconception on the part of some of the  hon. Members. I hope my remarks will be caught in the sentiment of the hon. Members present in this House that the name of the State should not be mispronounced or mis-spelt. 

        The name of the State should not be mis-pronounced, misused. Outside the House a member may have the liberty of pronouncing the name in  whatever manner. Somebody pronounces it Meghalaya, some pronounce in Meghalaya and some pronounce Meghalaya but the official pronunciation inside the House is 'Meghalaya'. Before I call upon other hon. Members I would like to know how many would like to participate. 

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the name of the State is a Sanskrit language it is very difficult for us to pronounce. In fact we are trying to pronounce it correctly but many people will not be able to give a correct pronunciation of the name of the State. 

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh ( Minister for Parliamentary affairs ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to request the hon. Member to pronounce the name of the great mountain of the World. 

Mr. Speaker : I have already given my ruling that the official pronunciation inside the House is "Meghalaya". Sometimes you may make a mistake but this should be taken lightly. Let us try at least to be sincere to ourselves. If the hon. Members of the House cannot pronounce correctly the name of the State, how can a foreigner pronounce the name of our State. Now Prof. Majaw to participate. 

Resolution 

Prof. M.N. Majaw ( Mawhati S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, while raising to support the motion I would like to observe that we are also somewhat equally foreign with the name. It takes quite a lot on the part of any average man to twist his tongue around and pronounce somewhat in a correct manner. But Mr. Speaker, Sir, anything that I have to raise is in support of the motion. For the dignity of this House, this House has to be constrained to use a very small part of the building and the remaining portion of it to be used by somebody else. As a matter of principle normally Mr. Speaker, Sir, you are the monarch of what you survey here. You can throw out anybody here including the Chief Minister. 

Mr. Speaker : Not outside the purview of rules or convention. 

Prof. M.N. Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I mean within this chamber and your kingdom should not be of such a small size. I will very much wish at least that the size of your kingdom should give your dignity and also the dignity of this august House. Now, I admit that there are problems in occupying the building as the Government of India has not yet vacated this office. Just now they cannot take the All India Radio there on the streets. We still need the All- India Radio. They have 2 or 3 sets which are highly technical. I would only suggest the setting up tents outside in the open air for some temporary arrangements in view of the fact that the same department, though it is a Central Department, is occupying the major portion of this building. If it is possible the highest Government authority is expected at least to give a report on the progress of the works.

 Mr. Speaker : The House Committee of which the hon. Member himself is a Member. 

*Prof. M.N. Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to submit that on both occasions I had unavoidable business and so I could not be present. But I would say something support of the motion. It is really for the Members of the House particularly the non-minister Members to find a room where they can sit have a cup of tea. Besides that we are crowded with large numbers of visitors who fully packed the corridor and the Members also need a little privacy. On the other hand if some room are not made available in the same building we would have to use raincoats to go to the next building. Not only that. We are going to room No.58, sit there and when we come out of that room to this Chamber, we have to scatter the rain drops inside the august chamber. It is a bit difficult to contemplate and bear Mr. Speaker, Sir. 

*Shri H. Enowell Pohshna : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I fully support the motion and I take this opportunity to say that we are facing great inconveniences. I take this opportunity also to mention here about our Deputy Speaker. He has of course to sit in the present Assembly Hotel and actually we want to maintain his prestige. 

Mr. Speaker : No, that does not come within the purview of the motion. 

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna : My point Mr. Speaker, Sir, is that some rooms should be allotted to him. 

Mr. Speaker : This particular resolution deals  with the recommendation to the Government of India to release the rooms occupied by the All India Radio. 

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna : I support the motion Mr. Speaker, Sir, ( Laughter).

Shri Humphrey Hadem ( Mynso- Raliang S.T. ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, since nobody likes to participate, I would only like to say one word. This is a 'must' to us as we have been facing great difficulties in the last sessions. We have been treated as gypsies. We have been asked occupy the tents erected outside, 

Mr. Speaker : Perhaps that casts a reflection on me. Because the hon. Members came tome and I had discussion with them and alter that I requested the House Committee to take the matter into consideration. Immediately the House Committee approached the Government and temporary arrangement was made. I think you had made a statement that when the capital is transferred we will occupy the building. 

 Shri H. S. Lyngdoh : I was not a member of the House Committee.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : It will be proper. Mr. Speaker, Sir, If we are in a position to review the position regarding or accommodation in this House. As things stand as present we should go for some immediate action and I must say, some positive and immediate steps so that all the rooms of this building be made available to us. With these few words, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I most happily resume my seat. 

Mr. Speaker : I would request the Chief Minister to clarify the position. 

*Shri W.A. Sangma ( Chief Minister ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the moves of this resolution said that he was a member of the House Committee and had the opportunity to discuss this problem and also threw light to this House. But due to unavoidable reasons the position has not been improved. I would make it very very clear that because of some unavoidable reasons we could not make the position better as the Members are aware. Sir, the people of this Hill areas have struggled for more than 16 years to achieve the goal. If we take into account the earlier movement, it is almost two decades. However, because of our determination and the support of the people the good will brought  from Assam and her country as a whole that we have ultimately reached our goal and that we are here in this House to discuss about the future of our State and also to tackle various problems that have come to our hand. I would like to inform the hon.  Member that the Government has been assessing all the problems right from the very beginning and immediately after the inauguration of the Autonomous State of Meghalaya in 1969 itself. I and my colleague, the Minister of Industries have a number of times discussed the problem for  accommodating this House and the Government of India has agreed that we should be housed in this building of All India Radio as there was no other building. A plan also has been prepared for the purpose  and the question of construction of this Studio has also been given top-most priority. Now, a suggestion was put forward by the mover of this resolution that since the construction of a new building has taken nearly six months already it is desirable to shift the Studio of All India Radio from this building. The suggestion of the mover was also discussed. As correctly pointed out by the seconder of the resolution. Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw, we have technical difficulties of resolution of this problem. In fact, when we discussed this issue we thought of constructing a new building. But ever after completion of the building which may take six months, this problem will not be solved because of this and other delicate things. Government will be more vigorous to take up with the Government of India since such an inconvenient situation exists and unless a new building, as already stated, comes up. We should not discuss something which is impossible. Let us be practical about two lines of things now. Nothing will be done unless and until a new building comes up and unless a time is given for the installation of a Studio for the All India Radio. However, as I have already stated, we are suggesting that some of the rooms should be made available to us and since all the 'staff who are housed in this building are required to function from the building of the All India Radio. But as you are aware of the fact as recommended by the House Committee, that the matter was pursued jointly by the secretary of the Assembly and the Secretary, T.A.D. and they have agreed to spare two rooms to be reserved for this Assembly. But Mr. Speaker, Sir, even after that if the resolution is allowed to pass, we cannot improve the position even if one so desires. If the House so decides to pass the resolution, I will take up the matter with the All India Radio. But I do not think it will be a right approach. This is a via media available to us, and, infact we have requested the Government of India to increase the capacity of radio service. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, in spite of the best attempts made on the part of the Government and also the All India Radio authorities, no further space could be made available to us and that is because of real, genuine and unavoidable reasons not under the control of the House. Really it will be impossible to make all the rooms available to us. I do not think, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that it will be in the fitness of things to pass the resolution. Nothing will emerge out of this resolution. It will not bring the desired result. 

Mr. Speaker : Will the mover of the resolutions like to withdraw the resolution in the light of the clarifications made by the Chief Minister?

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not understand what the Chief Minister has stated that temporary shifting of the All India Radio is not possible. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have serious Director with the Station Director of All India Radio and the Director had said that it would take at least 3 months to dress the new room which is to be given on rent to the All  India Radio. So these are the difficulties. If the All India Radio authorities at Shillong could do that at their own discretion, that could have been done within these two months' time but they said that they need the direction from Delhi to shift hut they said that they need the direction from Delhi to shift to another room which needs proper dressing before they construct  their own building. When they install this All India Radio, they should have known that this building was not meant for them. So I do not see why it was not possible for them to shift to another place. There are so m any Government buildings and not only this building. So I fail to understand why the Government of Meghalaya should not impress upon the Government of India to give such direction to the All India Radio authority here to vacate the rooms. That is the reason why, Sir, I have brought this resolution before the House. 

*Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) - Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I take this opportunity to explain the position. I said that this condition was there before Meghalaya came into being and before we could have a little space here as Members of this Assembly. I would request the hon. Members to realise that All India Radio set up was here with all it installation, with all arrangements and this particular part of the building was used as a library of the Assam Legislative Assembly. So somehow or other we could persuade the Government of Assam because it is impossible to house the library elsewhere to make at least this hall available for our Assembly sessions and along with that , whatever rooms are available easily, were taken over by us. This fact should be realised that before our state comes into existence this was  allowed by the Government of Assam. Even then, in order to improve the radio service in this capital town of Shillong, we as representatives of this state, had  occasion to impress upon the Government of India, Ministry of Information and Broadcasting, to increase the present capacity of 1 Kw to 50 Kw. I think we all  deserve that we should have a am-re powerful station after having a full-fledged State. But having these particular rooms, because if it would have been possible, we could have done it by now. Now to increase the capacity from 1 Kw to 50 Kw is going to cost the Government  of India a lot. Now according to the statement, the Government of Assam is shifting. If we want all the officers in addition to whatever amount that will be spent for increasing the capacity form 1 Kw to 50 Kw, you must also spent for few months to rent a house. By the time the Assam Capital could have been shifted, as correctly pointed out, Mr. Speaker,  Sir, this renting of house will entail a big amount. Let us be practical about it. Let us be patient about it. Because of unavoidable difficulties this cannot be done. The hon. Members may press this resolution, but knowing very well that it will be a more resolution which will fine a place in the proceedings of the House but which cannot be implemented. As I stated earlier, I do not see that nay useful purpose will be served and as such I would request that the resolution should not be pressed. 

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the resolution is at least not for the interest of anybody or for the interest of certain section of the p0eple but for the interest of this House including you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, (laughter). Since the Chief Minister has expressed his inability to pursue this mater further, I have not alternative but to place it before the House to decide. 

Mr. Speaker : The Chief Minister has pointed out that we need radio, but at the same time we need rooms for the Assembly. But due to practical difficulties, it will be of no use even if they move the Government of India to shift the All- India  Radio now. Perhaps what the Chief Minister wants to say is that- he would rather go to impress upon the Government of India for a bigger transmitting Station, and in the meantime the Government of India for  a bigger transmitting Station, and in the meantime the Government of Assam is also shifting its capital  within a similar period of time, and we may have the advantage of using the present Assam Legislative Assembly building itself. 

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Sir, we have discussed a lot regarding this, and we are interested of course with what the Chief Minister has said about having bigger kilowatt or bigger kilogram (laughter) from the All India Radio Station. In fact, the spirit of the resolution is that we need rooms for the Members of the House and or the dignity of the House and the State itself. But since the House is not interested in ht matter and since I am the only one who pressed the resolution, I leave the matter before the House and I will  not press for division. 

Mr. Speaker : You mean you withdraw the resolution. If you do not, I have to put  it before the House.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Yes, I withdraw. 

Mr. Speaker : Before I ask for the consent of the House to withdraw this resolution I think, if am not mistaken, just now Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh that he is not a member of the House Committee. 

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : I am, but when the old Committee recommended constructions of the building, I was not a member. 

Mr. Speaker : So I would like to point out that the dignity of the Member of the House should  be maintained and to maintain the dignity of the Members of the House is not only by procuring rooms which are nows being occupied by All India Radio, or by finding out some alternative arrangements. So I would request the House Committee to suggest ways and means to the Government so that in the meantime, some rooms may be made available for the use of the hon. Member. 

        Now do I take it that leave of the House be granted that the resolution moved by Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh be withdrawn? ( Voices - Yes, Yes. )

        Let us come to resolution No.2 to be moved by Prof. M.N. Majaw. 

Prof. M.N. Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to move that this Assembly recommends to the Government of Meghalaya to declare with immediate effect that the Family Planning Department, its programmes objectives shall never be utilised for the artificial control of birth in the State, but instead for the upkeep of new born infants and for special assistance to the mothers of large families. 

Mr. Speaker : The resolution moved. 

*Prof. M.N. Majaw : It is all too easy to laugh and gigle and chuckle with merriment over the various implications of this resolution especially as it involves family planning. But Mr. Speaker, sir, we are dealing with the subject which is better described as murder. Murder is certainly not a subject to gigle or laugh. 

Mr. Speaker : Family Planning has been legalised in India and legally it is not murder. You please withdraw that word.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :  I was not speaking in a legal sense Mr. Speaker Sir. Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are various basic issues involved but primarily the first issue is the moral issue. this is this issue almost forgotten, so much so that a great wise man of England once said taht birth control is neither birth nor control. We k now that fact. Mr; Speaker, Sir. According to the report published in Parliament also that the contraceptives sold in this country are sold mostly to the unmarried. It is practically a fact and these are a statistics brought out in Parliament  Mr.  Speaker, Sir, that is one of the moral issues involved. But the greater moral issue Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the issue of live and death. If I would make a chair Mr.  Speaker, Sir, I could take the chair and break it into pieces and splinted of burnt it because I am its maker. But in the case of the unborn child or the child yet to be born or the child could not have been born since God is the giver of life, we have no authority whatsoever.

Mr. Speaker : But what about the medical points?

Prof. M.N. Majaw : It will come to that later. It most unfortunate Mr. Speaker, Sir, that in India today, we are too materialistic minded In fact although  we are partly spiritual and partly material, partly physical and partly immaterial, yet we spend most of our life in seeking material comforts. Even for occupying these chairs, we are seeking rest to our bodies. Certainly, we do not give rest to our soul. But Mr. Speaker, sir, we have also to think of the final instinct in man, spirit of man, the creative spirit in man not only of the creative body. It is a fact that if this country had both of the material and the spiritually artistic aspects of life, it would have been a much better country today. We hope Mr. Speaker, Sir, that his Government although new yet old -2 years old- would have cut down to this problem at least from the moral point of view., We are all believers in God and we all believe that he who gives life, he alone can take away life. I know it will be argued by saying that the unborn has no life. But Mr. Speaker, sir, we are denying the right to life, we are denying to the unborn the right to be born. Even the most condemned  criminal in the State is allowed by the defence attorney to defence attorney to defend himself. But can we guarantee that the child yet to be born or who was not born might have been the Prime Minister of India or the Chief Minister of a State or the President of this Country. As I once said Mr. Speaker, Sir, had our parents practiced this birth control, none of us would be sitting here. 

( Laughter )

Mr.  Speaker : What about the celebrities ?

Prof. M.N. Majaw : That is entirely a different issue Mr. Speaker Sir. Now Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have  thought that this  Government would have looked on this moral issue more seriously because even if you may say don't think of God, and I think, some times they do not think of God although their very existence of life is in his hands. Even if they do not think of God, at least they  must think of the people. We are a very small community, very small race with a population of 8 or 9 lakhs against the vast innumerable millions in this country. Why have we for generations been controlled by outsiders? Are we lacking in brains? Are we lacking in various qualities of mind and body? No, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are among the innumerable drops in the vast ocean of the Assam Assembly ; we are a drop. That is the main reason shy nobody cares for us. We had to come out to if and set up a little ocean of our own. But now we find that here the Government which is always called the minority Government, since the number of votes that all the elected persons could get was 52,103, while the Opposition got 57,608 has the audacity of adopt his measure of birth controls. 

Mr. Speaker : Is it a correct statistic?

Prof. M.N. Majaw : These are the statistic issued by the Election Department of the government of Meghalaya. at page 20 of volume 3 of Meghalaya Finance Department detailed estimate of Fourth Five Year Plan there is hardly any incentive for growth of population instead they have encouraged people to be mutilate and sterilised. One lakh of rupees have been placed at the golden platter for calling upon the people to be mutilate for life to prevent future generation from birth and Mr. Speaker, Sir, they have established Rural Family Planning Welfare Centre. There lakhs of rupees for the establishment of a District Family Planning Bureau. Three lakhs or rupees will be spent at the District level, 1 lakh of rupees at the Stage level and or mass education they intend to put it on the war footing to ensure that the tribals do hot live in this State. One lakh of rupees are to be spent of mass education including holding orientation camps, Here I must laugh Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know what actually will be shown in the orientation scheme.....

(Laughter)

        Now Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the maintenance of bags and stocks rupees 10,000 will be spent and a total of 11,000 rupees is to be spent during the current financial year to ensure that we the hill tribe do not live, do not grow and do not increase. Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are certain items where the Government could have utilised this amount  for the betterment of the betterment of the new-born infants mothers, expectant mothers and the mothers in difficulty. Out of 11 rupees provision has been made to spent only 4,000 rupees for infants, another 9,000 rupees for nutrition, etc. So out of this 11 lakhs of rupees only 13,000 will be spent for good purposes and remaining amount will be spent for this criminal act of family panning.

Mr. Speaker :- I would like to point out again and again that the Government will never try to do any criminal act. It is only a matter of opinion whether the Family Programme should be encouraged or not. But to describe it as a criminal act or as murder is not only unparliamentary but it is also against the very basic policy of the country as whole and it is against law. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- Unscrutable Law and morality have got different meaning and definition at different parlance. Now we the Members of the Opposition are blessed with sun shine whereas the Members of the ruling party are shrouded with darkness. So while they are in grip of darkness the immoral act as you have suggested. Now. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I use this work 'immoral', as you have suggested. Now Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have suggested that instead of spending this 11 lakhs of rupees for family planning they could have used this amount for very noble purpose. First of all, for the unkeep of the newborn infants they could have done something. As you know very well  that in the interior since most of the places in our State in the interior out of 10 babies 8 or 9 babies die. This is a fact at least in the Bhoi Area. Eighty per cent of the children cannot survive more than 2 or 3 months. This is because of lack of nutrition and lack of proper food  and diet. But this Government has done nothing for preventing this instead they are increasing allotment for other immoral activities. They could have made some provision for assistance of the mothers of the larger families. This is a social welfare programme in England. The British people not only assist the mothers of larger families but also the expectant mothers. The unkeep of the new born children is the responsibility of the Government there. 

Mr. Speaker : If you want to draw a parallel with, England then I should remind you that they have legalised abortion also.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Yes, Sir, they have balanced moralities with immoralities. But here imbalance is too great. Eleven lakhs or rupees against 13,000 of rupees. 

        Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are vast tracts of lands, particularly in Khasi Hills, which are lying unoccupied. These are waster lands. They do not belong to the Government and we shall not allow the Government to take these also. Nor do they belong  to any Syiem. They belong to the people. If we have a large population, how nicely we could have utilised these lands. In what respect we are inferior? Are we short of intelligence or wisdom? No, we are only short of population. We are industrious, we have technical skill taking other measures for the progress of the race, they have also provided all these measures which area absolutely contradictory. There is no reason that this Government should see that this Family Planning Programme be taught to our people. Of course, they may teach these things to non-tribal. 

Mr. Speaker : What is most  immoral act for the tribals how it can be moral for the non-tribals?

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : God knows, how- many ways it can be interpreted. However, Mr. Speaker, I would earnestly request this Government to consider this basic problem and I recommend that this resolution be adopted. 


Adjournment

Mr. Speaker : The discussion will be continued on Thursday. Now the House stands adjourned till 10 a.m. on Wednesday, the 5th July, 1972.

R.T. RYMBAI,

Dated Shillong,

Secretary,

the 4th July, 1972

Meghalaya Legislative Assembly.