Proceedings of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly held at 10 A.M. on Wednesday, the 5th April 1972, in the Assembly Chamber, Shillong, with the Hon'ble Speaker in the Chair.

Mr. Speaker : Let us begin with the first item in today's List of Business. We ell start with the calling attention of Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh. 

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang (Nongpoh S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have submitted a written notice to raise a certain point. 


Observation from the Chair. 

*Mr. Speaker : After consulting the Rules of Procedure of the Lok Sabha and other State Legislatures, it has been found that the present trend is to do away with the 'zero hour'. But nevertheless, in our Rules of  Procedure which have been adopted for the purpose of Meghalaya Legislative Assembly, the rule is very clear. Rule 49A says - "Immediately after the question hour and before the list of business of the day is entered upon, any Member who wants to raise any matter of grave importance which cannot be raised under any other provisions of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business, can do so with the previous permission of the Speaker provided, however, that the Member raising such a matter shall not make any speech" Now the question is that 'immediately after the question hour' - that is the clarifying phrase here- and since we have no questions today, the hon. Member cannot raise any important matter before the House. But at the same time, I have also gone through the desire of the hon. Member and also of Prof. Majaw who also wants to raise many important matters according to him and, in cases where we do not have questions in the House to be answered by the Ministers, they may raise some motions under some other provisions of the rules, - say Rule 301- there you can have a very big scope to raise any matter to be discussed in the House.

*Shri Hoover Hynniewta (Nongkhlaw S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we make a submission in this connection to you? The fact that the Member could not come forward with questions is not on account of any lapse on their part. The Session was convened at a very short notice and, if my understanding is correct, there is a certain limit imposed by rules within which the questions should be submitted. Now this time limit fixed under the rules is certainly more than five days and the notice we received for this Assembly is only five days. So Sir, since there is no lapse on the part of the Members, I think you May allow them to raise any question with your prior consent during the zero hour. Now, if the House as a whole has decided not to submit any question, then we cannot come to you for any special consideration. But since the circumstances in this particular case are such that the Members do not have the time to send the questions, so Sir, as a special case and since this case is not governed by any rule, you may kindly allow the Members to bring this matter to the House.  

Mr. Speaker : I fully understand, the difficulties under which we are functioning specially in this first Session. All the hon. Members were also in great difficulties since they received the notice only five days before the summoning of  the Assembly. Of course, the period between the date of receipt of the notice and the date of the first sitting, will be definitely more than five day. But nevertheless, the practice in other Assemblies is that zero hour can come only when there are questions and that is exactly why Rule 301 has been included in the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in the House that nay matter of grave importance may be raised by the  hon. Members. I will only advise the hon. Members that with my permission this House today they may treat this notice under Rule 301 instead of Rule 49A and we may be able to take up tomorrow or day after tomorrow. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw (Mawhati S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, some questions may come up on 6th or 7th then the possibility will arise for zero hour. 

Mr. Speaker : In that case, you may raise the important questions and also under Rule 301 and so far as privilege motion is concerned, we may take up tomorrow. So now, we will start with the calling attention notice which I have received from Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh and others. 


Calling Attention

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh (Pariong S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to call the attention of the Chief Minister under Rule 54 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly to the news item published in the Assam Tribune, dated 28th March 1972 under the caption "Trafficking of Women - 5 persons held in Darranga Mela. 

Mr. Speaker Will the Chief Minister make a statement on this?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 18th March, 1972, Ka Swep Nongbri, Ka Bidiancy, and young girl along with an hon. Member of the Legislature Mr. H.S. Lyngdoh contacted the Superintendent of Police at Shillong. Ka Swep Nongbri complained that her teen-age daughter had been taken away by some persons to Mela Bazar (Darranga Mela) and was kept confined by some brothel keepers over there. She had come to knew about there daughter from Ka Bidiancy. Ka Bidiancy had stated that she was herself enticed nearly 11 months ago by Ali Syntang, Ramu Nepali and Ka Doris and was forcibly kept at Darranga Mela for immoral purposes. She had said that she managed to escape on 9th February, 1972 and came back to her house. She had said that she had seen Ka Slip Nongbri, Ka Thula Nongbri, besides many other girls who had been kept by some brother lepers for immoral purposes. Consequently Shillong P.S. cases Nos.24 and 25 of March, 1972 under section 366 I.P.C. were registered and the investigation into the cases was taken up immediately and the two accused namely Ali Syntang and Ramu Nepali were arrested at Shillong. 

        In this connection, an information  was also received that Hayeta Begum, who was kidnapped from Shillong was also kept confined at Darranga Mela. 

        This has a reference to Shillong P.S. No.29(2)72 u/s. 366/34 I.P.C. in which the father of the girl was the complainant. However, she could not be traced out at Darranga Mela and assistance of West Bengal Police has been sought to recover the girl and efforts in this direction are still a foot. 

        Further, one Durga Devi who was also kidnapped in November, 1971 was also recovered from Darranga Mela on 13th February, 1972 in connection with Shillong P.S. case No.19(11)71 U/s. 366 I.P.C.

        The mater was discussed with the Superintendent of Police Kamrup and a Police Team from Shillong under City Inspector was deputed on 24th March, 1972, we were joined by some officers and men of Kamrup Police. A surprise raid was made on that very day and in all 28 teen-aged girls and one woman were rescued from Darranga Mela and were brought to Shillong. However, Ka Slip Nongbri, daughter of Ka Swep Nongbri of Nongjalak (complaint of Shillong P.S. Case No.24 of March, 1972) could not be traced our at Darranga Mela. But Ka Thula was recovered from that place. The Police is continuing its effort to trace her out. 

        Along with the rescue of these women, the Police also apprehended five brothel keepers, out of them two are women. All the recovered women and five persons who were apprehended at Darranga Mela, were produced before the Magistrate at Shillong and at present they are under Magistrate's custody. Efforts are being made to inform the parents of these girls and some parents and guardians have already approached the Magistrate for the custody of their wards. 

        From the statement of recovered girls before Police, it appears that these girls were enticed away by Ali Syntang, Ramu Nepali, Hari Tamang and Ka Doris and Baliram Sindhi, all of whom have already been arrested and were presently in jail hajat. It would not be out of place to mention that none of these cases (in relation to girls rescued) were reported to Police earlier. However, action is being taken to launch some criminal proceedings in the matter. Further, the Kamrup Police is being moved to take up appropriate measures under Suppression of Immoral Traffic Act. 

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we ask the Chief Minister, through you, whether it is a fact that according to me this Baliram Sindhi was released on bail on the 28th March, 1972 and also Ka Doris and Jam Shallam. I have asked this because of the fact that this is not the first time that such nefarious activities have taken place and there is a big gang behind this. The fair name of this City of Shillong has been besmeared by these notorious criminals for which, I think, the Indian Penal Code should be revised to devise new method of punishment. In fact rough and ready justice would be the best punishment that can be meted out to these criminals. Now I just want to know from the Chief Minister whether the bail is going to be given to the others also. And it is really a tremendous thing to know that these people are released on bail.  

Capt. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the magistrate granted the bail. It is a matter of the court. 

*Shri Hoover Hynniewta (Nongkhlaw) : Sir, may we request the Chief Minister through you to circulate the statement to every Member of the House as it is very difficult for us to catch up all the details mentioned in the statement. We want to move a motion in this regard in view of the seriousness of the incidents for a thorough discussion in this House with your kind permission. Unless we can go through the statement in detail it is not possible for us to do full justice to the facts that are being given out to this House by the Chief Minister. 

Mr. Speaker : I think, the Chief Minister will be able to do that but it takes time. 

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think this statement will from part of the proceedings of the House. If I may say so, your office can straightway circulate it along with the proceedings of the House. 

Mr. Speaker : This statement will be placed on the Table of the House and every hon. Member will be able to come and see it. But it is difficult for each and every Members may go through the proceedings but there are difficulties also; that it will take time for the reporters to produce as many copies as possible. But if the Chief Minister is ready to get it cyclostyled or typed for the benefit of the hon. Members he may do so. Of course, it is not a ruling but it is an opinion. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, my question has not been replied to. I have been able to follow the statement of the Chief Minister when he stated that Ka Doris and her husband Baliram Sindhi are now in Jail. So far my information goes they are not in jail custody now. 

Mr. Speaker : But you put two questions.  That was your first question which was not answered and your second question was already answered. 

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether this particular gentleman has been released on bail. I am not in a position to give the information off-hand. 

*Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Sir, I want to know from the Chief Minister whether it is a fact that Ka Doris who is in fact the main accuse in this case was released on bail and that some person employed by her is following the complaint and threatening his life. May I know whether Ka Doris has been released on bail ?

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Sir, I have already replied that I have not got that information as yet. So I cannot reply off hand.

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang :- Whether the Chief Minister will be pleased to see that the statement is cyclostyled so that we from this side of the House can be seized of the matter.

Mr. Speaker :- You can raise a discussion on this because it is a very good procedure through the House will be more acquainted with the whole case.

Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- Sir, may we know whether the Chief Minister will undertake this additional burden of making copies w\available to all hon.. Members of this august House ?

Mr. Speaker :- Copies will be made available to all hon. Members. I will see that my Secretariat gets the statement cyclostyles and copies will be made available to the Members in the afternoon.


Debate on the Governor's Address

        Now, let us pass on to the next item to-day's list of business, that is Debate on the Governor's Address. Minister, Industries yesterday started with the intervening reply. I request  him to continue.

Shri S.D.D. Nicholas-Roy (Minister Industries) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I resume my intervention I would like to give a word of appreciation to all the Members who participated, most of whom made constructive criticisms or suggestions and particularly ending with the remarks of the Member from Nongkhlaw. If the spirit of working together whether on this side of the House or the pother will continue, we may build up, not only the right approach and attitude in this House, but also outside, in the state as a whole, and I very much appreciate that spirit. I for one, am sure tat all my colleagues on this side, will do whatever we can to build up a good relationship among the people in the State and particularly the representatives in this House. Now, regarding  the amendments which were submitted by various members, mention was made by one Member regarding supply. The need for ensuring regular supply of essential commodities in the State does not require very special mention. It has been mentioned in the Governor's Address that supplies were not very good during the last year particularly, because of the influx of refugees which was a tremendous problem that posed to the  whole of North Eastern India and because of the fact that our State is a deficit State in almost all the essential items of food. The system of getting food-stuff directly from the Government of India especially item like rice, sugar and wheat has been organised and the Government will try its best to ensure that the food items are made available to the public at reasonable prices. The Food Corporation of India was requested last year to construct go-downs in Shillong and Tura, the two main centres, with sufficient capacity to stock the various essential commodities so that supply can be lifted from these Centres within the State itself . Up till now, the lifting of essential commodities has been made from Gauhati primarily from the Food Corporation of India stocks at Gauhati, we saw during 1971 that this system could not be adequate for the whole state and we took steps to request the Food Corporation of India to provide adequate godown facilities here. The Food Corporation of India acquired storage space, though temporarily, for 20 thousand quintals in Shillong and almost equal space in Tura. Now, they have also taken steps to build these godowns as permanent godowns and this will be undertaken within this coming year.

        Secondly, now coming to the question of transport, Mr. Kharbuli from  Malki had made a mention regarding Road transport Corporation and would like to inform the Members regarding the position. the Government of Meghalaya and the Government of Assam have reached an agreement over the erstwhile State Road Transport Corporation and which will function as a Joint Corporation over six months from the appointed day. The Government of Meghalaya has a representative in the Corporation and the Government of Assam are required to consult the Government of Meghalaya before issuing important directions to that Corporation. the Joint Corporation will continue to operate on the existing routes for the period of arrangement and its future will be decided within this time. Because of the fact that the Government of India had not transferred to the Autonomous State, the authority over issuing of permits and in spite of many many reminders by telegrams, letters and personal approaches it was not until very recently that the authority came to us. We see that many things that we expected to have been done in the past could not be done. Moreover, the taking over of an  undertaking like the State Transport Corporation involves a great number of things like finance, division of assets and liabilities. Also the question of different routes that go from our State into another State is to be decided and therefore, to decide on this we feel we require a little more time. At this moment we are having a joint corporation for six months and within these six month's period, the Government will have to give a definite decision regarding what its policy will be towards the Shillong-Gauhati Road and the policy of taking over the other routes which are at the moment operated by the Assam-Meghalaya State Road Transport Corporation. As some of the Members have already expressed different points of view, this question will have to be very properly examined whether it is to be run by the Joint Corporation, or a special Corporation is to be d\set up by us whether it should be done by the State Transport Department. Also whether we should keep open some of the routes to private operators or whether we should have them running in parallel with the State transport. these are matters which we need to get into very thoroughly and they are being examined. We require more information on the working of the State Transport Corporation, and because it was connected with the Assam Government, it was not easy to get all that information and now that we have a Joint Corporation it will be easier to get that information. We have requested our Officers to see that these matter will be thoroughly gone within the six months period before this agreement comes to a close. For some of the interior routes, the Government have taken a decision to run on an experimental basis for some time, a few buses for the sake of improving transport in the rural areas particularly. Passengers' buses are expected to arrive soon for running on four of the routes which have been considered by the people that there is shortage of transport. These Routes are Shillong-Cherra Shella route, Shillong-Mawsynram-Lawbah Route, Shilong-Mairang-Nongstoin Route and Shillong-Makyrwat route. These buses are expected to run for a certain period of time to assist in improving the passenger transport in these particular routes.

Shri D.D. Lapang :- Whether the Minister-in-charge has taken into consideration the road-side buses to Nongpoh as we do not know whether any arrangement has been made because at present the people are suffering very much. They have also submitted applications one after another, I would like to know whether the Minister has taken his road into consideration.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nicholas-Roy (Minister, Transport) :- Since the State Transport Corporation is operating a monopoly on this route this is to be taken into consideration in the over-all policy regarding that monopoly plus the definite needs of the people on the road-side. This will definitely be taken up. Regarding supply of adequate transport to the people on that whole area within our State and how best to tackle the problem - whether to place more buses or to open up the route to private buses or our own Meghalaya State buses this will have to be taken up very soon. So, Sir, these are the main points raised in the amendment.

        Regarding the division on the Governor's Address, some of the Members had certain points and I will just touch briefly only on a few of them.     

        Regarding the Soil Conservation Department, Mr. P.G. Momin, made some remarks which are mostly dealt with by the Agriculture Department but since the Soil Conservation Department also handles the same type of things, the Soil Conservation Department has also to give a reply. This Department has taken up several demonstration plots on terraces in Garo Hills to show that the same crops as are grown in jhumming areas can be grown in terraces, with much better yield. More such demonstration plots on terraces, are proposes to be taken up during 1972-73. Follow-up-programmes, such as supply of fertilizers, seeds etc., at subsidised rates, are taken up on terraced areas to facilitate immediately raising of food crops.

        Regarding Mr. Momin's comments on the employment problem, the Department of Soil Conservation has spent during 1971-72 nearly Rs. 11,50,000 on development works such as terracing, contour bunding, reclamation, afforestation, cash crop development, follow-up-programmes, etc., in which the local people are employed in the work. The amount for Garo Hills on such work is approximately Rs.5 lakhs. During 1972-73, the Plan outlay for the Department is Rs. 254 lakhs of which an amount of at least Rs. 18 lakhs would be on work where local labourers would be used for development works. Of this amount about Rs.7.21 lakhs is meant for Garo Hills. He made a suggestion that there should be Joint Directors posted in Tura at different divisions of different departments. Since the Soil Conservation department has only two divisions and only one Joint Director, the department finds that it would not be possible to post one Joint Director at Tura.

        Then Mr. Pohshna of Nongtalang stated that Soil Conservation Grants or subsidies are distributed by party member and not by Department officers. This is not true. All applications for subsidies for land development works such as terracing, reclamation, etc., are sent by applicants through the Field Management Committees, through the Block Development Officers to the Range Officers. the range Officer makes enquires regarding  feasibilities and suitability and then recommends to the Divisional officers the work that can be undertaken within the available budget. the money is paid by our staff directly to the applicants. 

       Mr. Speaker, Sir, some of the Members had raised a question on the forest policy. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : On a point of information Mr. Speaker,  Sir, while the Minister- in-charge is still in Soil Conservation may we know what is really the problem of having a Joint Director at Tura because Garo Hills is so far away and our  Garo friends have to come all the way to Shillong for matters which might be dealt with by the Joint Director at Tura. 

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols- Roy (Minister, Industries, etc) : Well, Mr. Speaker, Sir, whether it would be best for all Departments to have joint Director in Tura will have to be examined not only in respect of the financial position and the personnel position but also whether the Departments are big enough to justify posting of two Joint Directors. Certainly, we see the validity of the argument but there are some things which we can and some which we cannot do. But I cannot at this moment give all the reasons why it should not be done. All I can say is that it can be re-examined. Now, so far as forests are concerned, the Governor's Address has made a brief reference to forests and there are certain points raised by the Members and I would just briefly outline the extent to which this Government is responsible in the State and to give some of the background. The total forest areas in Meghalaya is 8510 sq. km., of course, these are only  estimates- as nobody has actually measured it bases on the techniques evolved for calculation of forest areas. this works out to about 38 percent of the geographical area.  This is very low as per standard laid down in the National Forest Policy of India, 1952 according to which this should be 60 per cent in the hills. Out of the above total forest areas, the State Forest Department have control over the Reserved Forests only which are measured at 884 sq.km. only. This forms only about 10 per cent of the total forest areas.  The rest are under the jurisdiction of the District Councils. The District Council Authorities have, however, not been able to bring the forests under any systematic management as these forests are burdened with rights and privileges enjoyed by the local chieftains like Syiems in Khasi Hills, Dolois in Jaintia Hills and Nokmas in  Garo Hills. These areas are also subjected to shifting cultivation. As a result, the forest areas under the district Council authorities are also getting very much reduced by shifting cultivation from year to year. Now, this is the policy.

        Under the above situation, the immediate concern of the Government will be to take necessary steps to find out ways and means, even if necessary by legislation, in order to bring all the forests under scientific management for proper utilisation in the greater interest of the State and as a whole.

        The study team on Tribal Development Programme, Assam, also recommended in their report that the District Council authorities should entrust the scientific working of the forest to the State Forest Department in the overall interest of the entire community. The views of the District Council authorities on the above were sought. While one District  Councils has since intimated their willingness to accept the above recommendation, the views from the other two are still awaited. 

        Further to draw up a schemes of afforestation of the barren community land, under some agreement with the owners of the land, the State Forest Department have approached the District  Councils for their views. The views of the two District Councils have been received with favourable response but the views of the other is till being awaited. 

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are many development activities under the Forest Department but I do not need to go into other details which would probably come under discussion in the Budget discussion. I want to make one further remark that forest planning is not a 5 year plan not to speak of one year. It May be a 100 year plan and unless we start to think in terms of proper planning for the future, I am afraid that many remarks made not only by the Members of this full State Assembly but by the Members of the Autonomous State Assembly will come true regarding the deforestation of the States and it will be a tragedy for the whole State. Some very serious thinking is needed by the Members of this House, and the members of the District Councils to undertake transformation in the method of working of our forests and preserving them so that they can be a source of richness to the State and the people. But unfortunately, the short-term point of view is often taken and we cannot plan for the future. We must think now seeing so many mistakes have been made in the past -to start the whole philosophy of thinking about forests in a new direction. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was fortunate to be invited to visit Scandinavia in April 1971, and I was able to visit some of the forest areas and study the forest policy of those small Scandivian countries where forestry is one of the most important industries of those States. I was able to obtain copies of 2 of the Forests Acts of those countries, I was able also to get the forest Act of Himachal Pradesh which is as mountainous State like ours. these acts are being studied, so far as the private forests are concerned, because much of our are does not come, as I said earlier, under the State Government.  The question of how to control and improve the forestry of the state is very very important not only for those who think in terms of forests but for agriculture of the area also. As we all know unless forests are preserved the soil will be depleted by erosion and eventually the farmers will suffer a loss. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : On a point of clarification, Sir, I do not know whether the Minister- in- charge of Forests I aware of the fact that as a result of amendments of the Sixth Schedule that were brought through the Assam Reorganisation (Meghalaya) Act, the State  Assembly has been entrusted with the power to legislate even with regard to forests. Therefore, the Minister's reply that the forest are not within the purview of this State Assembly is no more valid. 

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Forests) : I am fully aware of the legal position so far as the Sixth  Schedule is concerned. But to implement the provisions of the amendment we have to get the co-operation of the heads of the elakas, the co-operation of the people and of the District Councils, who are also in charge of the District Council, Forest areas. This is one of the things which we are examining how best to bring in that legislation so that we will  get the co-operation of the people and with the understanding of what we are trying to do. that is why we are studying the legislation of other States and other parts of the world to bring in the best legislation and then have a forum for discussion before we finally pass the legislation so that it will be acceptable and workable. 

        Now I come to border trade. A number of Members have mentioned from both sides of the House for improvement of the trade previously with East Pakistan now with Bangladesh. This has been my concern as an individual and as a Member of the Assembly in the previous Government of the Autonomous State as well as a Member of the Assam Legislative Assembly.

        Therefore, as soon as I say the news in the paper that the Indo- Bangladesh Treaty was to be signed shortly , I took the earliest opportunity to make a trip to Dacca to understand the thinking of some of the leadership of Bangladesh. Before that, we that, we have placed the points of view of tour Government on the day that our Government was born on the 21st January 1972 with the Prime Minister of our country. And following that visit it was unfortunately right in the middle of the general elections we could not attend the conference in Delhi. We sent our officers to Delhi to discuss the point of view of our people in the border and our Government before the Government of India so that they would be considered at the time when the Bangladesh Treaty would be signed. I myself could not get to Delhi at this particular time because this Assembly had started. 

Shri P.R. Kyndiah (Jaiaw S.T.) : The Minister was referring to the Indo- Bangladesh Treaty - There are two treaties. 

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries, Trade, etc. ) :  Sir, at least le me finish my sentence. It is very difficult if a Member interrupts in the middle of the Sentence,  to catch the thread. In regard to this Indo- Bangladesh Treaty we have been in constant touch with the Government of India during these past few days and we have been able to obtain a copy of the Trade Agreement. 

Shri P.R. Kyndiah : May I know whether the Minister referred to the Trade Treaty?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries, Trade, etc. ) : I was referring to the Indo Bangladesh Trade Agreement which was signed on 28th of March 1972. We have been able to obtain one copy of that Trade agreement. As soon as it was brought by our Chief Secretary we gave orders to have it cyclostyled and it will be available to all hon. Members of the House. I hope copies have been made available to the Assembly Secretary this morning. They should be given to all hon. Members before the House rises. 

        Now I would like to briefly outline some of the salient points of this Trade Agreement. It covers broadly three aspects. 

        Imports and exports of commodities and goods produced or manufacture in India or Bangladesh bon a balanced basis of the value of Rs. 25 crores in each direction. This will be at the national level. Commodities of interest to us like cement, coal, limestone, hard wood and soft wood have been included. 

        In order to meet the day to day requirements of the people living within a sixteen kilometre belt of the border between West Bengal, Assam, Meghalaya,  Tripura and Mizoram on the one hand and Bangladesh on the  other, some arrangements have been made. The new arrangements have improvements over the earlier agreements, between the two nations. Additional commodities like chilies, tezpatta, onions, tapioca, sand, betel leaves, mustard oil, mustard seed, shingles and boulders have been included. The cash that each person can carry has been raised from Rs.50 to Rs.100. though it has been laid down that every person can cross the border only once a day in each direction on any two specified days of a week and only through such routes a may be authorised, it has been provided that additional days, as may be mutually agreed, could also be included. There will be a review after a period of six months in this regard. But before the expiry of this period if either country feel the need to modify the facilities under the Agreement, it could enter into immediate consultations with the other country. 

        Thirdly, the two Governments have agreed to make mutually beneficial arrangements for the use of their waterways, railways and roadways for commerce between the two countries find for passage of goods between two places in one country through the territory of the other. The provision of transit facilities through Bangladesh will open up vast possibilities for our State. 

        Detailed instructions have not been received from the Government of India. According to the telephone call which we had yesterday, these instructions are first being vetted By the Home Ministry and the Ministry of Foreign Trade.

Prof. Martin N. Majaw : On a point of information  may we know how much of our produces is likely to be exported to Bangladesh?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Trade, etc. ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not a sooth-sayer. The Department of Trade was set up only very recently and the Minister of Trade was appointed only on the 18th of March, 1972and there is no staff as yet and I do not think that I can give any figures when we have just started the Department only the other day. But I am sure that the volume of border trade will be as we have hoped and there will be an improvement. We are yet to find out the full implication of the border trade agreement and to make an assessment after this has been put into operation for some time. 

Prof. Martin N. Majaw : May we know what will be the amount approximately that we may be able to export from our State?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Trade, etc. ) : That is yet to be worked out. Rs. 25 crores in each direction on a balanced basis and this will be for one year and will include all the border States with Bangladesh - from country to county basis. This is not a border trade, it is just a trade across the border of about 16 kilometers. this refers to regular trade, which will be under Foreign Exchange Regulations and so on. The border trade is a different matter and to what extent we will be able to participate is yet to be worked out. As I said, detailed institution are still to be received and we are pursuing this with the Government of India and it is hoped more relaxations will be made in respect of this State vis- a - vis Bangladesh.  

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Sir, the Minister has told the House that he assumed charge on the 18th of March, 1972 and he confessed the fact that he had no staff. May we know why the Minister was not provided with staff in view of the urgency of this matter? 

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Trade, etc. ) : The question of setting up of a department- a new department- means sanctions and appointments and creation of posts and so on. With the coming to an end of the financial year and a new year coming, these matters are yet to be gone into. The existing staff of the districts and Secretary in-charge of Industries were asked to do the work. With whatever staff we have, we have already started functioning. But a separate department for this particular purpose has not yet been organised.  

Prof. Martin N. Majaw : May I make a suggestion to the Hon'ble Minister that those retrenched staff from the Relief and Rehabilitation Department like the A.R.Os, etc., whose services have been simultaneously terminated by the Gazette notification, be given some preference in the matter of appointment?

Mr. Speaker : Will that be good for the purpose of trade?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Trade, etc. ) : This is actually a personnel mater and the suggestion should be made to the Chief Minister who is in charge of personnel. This will certainly be considered by our Government. 

        Now I would like come back to the Indo-Bangladesh trade. In the past, the trade agreement with Pakistan was made by our country and it cam to  an end after a certain time. But the border trade continued after 1966-67 when we took up, as public leaders at that time, to restart our border trade with East Pakistan. The Government of India was able to agree to this and some border markets were opened in our State unilaterally without getting the necessary concurrence from the Government of Pakistan. After the Tashkent Agreement, the situation was better than previous and some of the traders were allowed to come across our borders to visit certain specified border markets in the morning and to return in the afternoon. Certain specified number of traders also was given. It started with 100 - 150 and more recently after Meghalaya came into being we have recommended some places where we can have bigger markets even for 400-450 numbers of traders. Even since partition this border trade was going on with fits and starts. It stopped to operate many times and it was only in the year 1967, that it was resumed in a more systematic manner. Then after the Bangladesh trouble started, trade stopped because of infiltration and of possibility of enemy action and so on and so forth. just before the war when some of the areas were cleared by the Mukti Bahini along our borders, trade was resumed in a small way as we all know. Then after the war it again resumed in a much large manner and the people expected that there would be free trade almost like the old pre-partition days. But the fact is that there are two countries land it is not one country as it was before. As a result of these different arrangements and different political changes, many of our people on both sides of the border have not understood the implications or a regular trade agreement that is now being implemented. We have requested the Government of India and  its authorities like the Customs and the Border Security and so on to provide enough time for us to inform all our people of our side and the people of the other side of the implications of this trade agreement and not to crack down on some of the functions which have been going on and which had not come under the present trade agreement, for example fish has been coming to Shillong and other parts of the State from the border markets. But according to our understanding of this trade agreement, the commodities that would come to our border markets would be meant for the border people only and there would be a separate trade agreement for supplying commodities to other parts of the State. But as I have said, until we receive detailed instructions we will not certainly know how this should be implemented. But our request was that before this can be implemented in to by anyone, our people be thoroughly informed, our won officers instructed so that the people will not suffer and there will be a smooth transition from the existing system to the new system which both the countries have agreed top. We have spent many hours on this for many days and we will continue to strive to help our State and our people. But this will not only depend on us but will also depend on the whole county because the agreement is between our country and the country of Bangladesh.  Therefore, I would  appeal to our Members particularly those representing the border areas to bear with us that, if there is some misunderstanding about this matter, we will try our level best to put our views to both the countries. I may assure you from what I have gathered from other sources when I visited Dacca that in spite of our limitations of being a small Autonomous State and with limited resources and yet we were able to tackle the 7 lakhs refugees when they came to our border and we have got the good- will and appreciation of the people of Bangladesh. The Bangladesh leader, Sheik Mujibur Rahman told me an requested me to convey to the Government of Meghalaya and the people of Meghalaya that he is very grateful for our taking care of his peo0ple of Bangladesh in time of great distress. I am sure if we maintain this good relationship between our country and Bangladesh it will  be to the best  interests of the country ass a whole and our State in particular. 

Shri S.D. Khongwir (Mawlai  S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very grateful for the elaborate exposition of the Minister and may we know Mr. Speaker,  Sir, from the Hon'ble Minister whether the border trade has been revived or not?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Trade, etc.) : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, from our side there have been no new instructions and we have taken steps right from the date we heard of some of the border trade being disrupted. We have instructed the people on our side not to disrupt the border trade. But it so happened, as was pointed out by the Member from Nongtalang that there had been some disruption of trade from the other side of Bangladesh. Now that is not under the control of the Meghalaya Government at all nut we have represented our point of view through our own Government at New Delhi. So far as my information goes, some trade is now going on in a very limited amount. Until the implication of this whole agreement is passed on to the district authorities and those on the side of Bangladesh perhaps there will be some amount of disruption or border trade. But it is not for me to give any information regarding another country. Actually it should come under foreign affairs. But so far as my information goes the people from the other side would like to have trade with us as before. 

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know what are the authorised routes which have been recognised by the Government.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Trade, etc. ) : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, the trade agreement will be submitted and a copy of it will be made available to all the hon. Members. In the agreement the authorised routes have not been specified. These will be in the instruction that we will receive later from New Delhi. 

        Now I will come to the  question of dairy development. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would request you to allow me to make a few remarks on dairy development especially when there was no mention about it in the Governor's Address. It is very much regretted that it has been left out though a draft was prepared for the purpose of inclusion in the Governor's Address. I am very sorry that this has taken place. We are very much concerned with the development of dairy farming and industry in the State. During my visit to Europe, I had visited Denmark to have some better understanding regarding dairy development particularly in the co-operative sector. 

        In addition to my visit to Scandinavia in 1971, I had an opportunity to make a very interesting visit to Anand in Gujarat in January 1972 and I would like to recommend to any Member who is interested in dairy development and co-operative development, to visit Anand. It is something which our country can be very very proud of, that a co-operative union composed of thousands and thousands of small farmers has been functioning for the last so many years, producing milk products and dairy products, and developing diary industry, all in the co-operative sector and no money being pored by way of grant and subsidy from the Government. Whatever it is, dairy development is very much under consideration of the Agriculture Department, and plans are under way to examine how best to develop dairy industry in the State. We had came here a few days ago and spent some time with our officers and myself as the Minister-in- charge was away when he came. When I was the Minister- in- charge of Agriculture, I had invited him. He will be procuring a report by the Dairy Development Board of India, how to establish dairy co-operatives in our State. I would now leave it to Mr. Joshi. 

Shri D.N. Joshi, (Cantonment) : Sir, I want to know whether Government is interested in sending some Members to go to Anand and visit the dairy industry there, so that we can have a full knowledge of setting upto a dairy industry in our State on a scientific basis.

Mr. Speaker : The question raised by Mr. Joshi was that whether Government is prepared to send a delegation from amongst the Member of the Assembly to visit Anand, form interested Members of the Assembly.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries, etc. ) : That is a subject for the Speaker and the House to consider whether we would like to send an inter-State team from amongst the Members who are interested in dairy development to such institutions and elsewhere. 

Mr. Speaker : In so far as delegation to be sent by the Speaker, is concerned this is for legislative purpose only. But so far ass dairy farming is concerned, it is for the Department to consider whether they would like to include some of the hon, Members who are interested in this inter- State tour. As such, this is outside the purview of this House. 

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would therefore, like to suggest to the Government to consider inclusive of the Members of the public who are really doing the work of dairy farming and arrange for such tours outside the State, so that they will get more information about the working of this kind of trade. This, think, will be of great benefit to the people of the State. 

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries, etc. ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the suggestion of Mr. Lapang is actually one of the suggestions I had made myself to the Department and this also came from Dr. Kurien who had suggested that we should send not only the top people from the Department, but also we should include the actual farmers, people who will study co-operative development and persons from various levels. These are the suggestions I have made. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir, if the Industries Minister who is answering  on behalf of the Agriculture minister could make such a suggestion, the Member of this House will be in utter confusion. 

Mr. Speaker : The Hon'ble Minister was replying to what his Department had done during the Autonomous State period but now that the other Minister  has taken over, he had made a suggest on to his colleague and in fact this kind of suggestion should not have been uttered in this House. This should have been discussed in the Cabinet meeting. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Since the Minister-in- charge is here may we knew from him whether he ahs given serious consideration to this and if so, what are the steps he is proposing to take. 

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry the suggestion has not yet come to me.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries, etc. ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is very much needed to have the dairy development in our State. 

Mr. Speaker : How long will you take?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries, etc.) : I will take another 5 minutes, Sir. 

        A question was raised yesterday regarding industry, i.e., cement industry, the price of cement and take over of the Assam Cements. Distribution of cement is not controlled by Government. In fact, Government are not directly concerned with the process of procurement and distribution by the stockists. The prices are, however, fixed by the Government of India. The Director of Supply had requested the Deputy Commissioner to call for a meeting of the cement dealers to find out ways and means to get more supply of cement to Meghalaya. We may assist the dealers and various parties in the mater by  getting priority allotment of wagons provided the Deputy Commissioner makes the arrangement for proper distribution. We have also asked the Deputy Commissioner to ask the cement dealers to exhibit the prices, and stocks of cement in their shops. There are two parties in  Garo Hills who had approached the  Director of Supply for priority allotment of wagons booked to Dhubri and Gauhati, and the Director of Supply had requested the parties concerned to approach through the Deputy Commissioner to ensure that distribution would be done in Garo Hills and not be diverted to another places between Gauhati and Tura, and Dhubri and Tura. 

        Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding Assam Cements, it was pointed out by one of the Members that the price of cement in Shillong is higher than the price of the same cement coming from Cherrapunjee, in Gauhati. Unfortunately, this is a fact, which was brought to my attention some years ago, and I was surprised that this was so. This is due to the system which the Government of India has been following. The price of cement is  fixed by the Cement Controller of India under the Cement Control Order, 1967 and the price, effective from time to time F.O.R. destination railway station, is notified by him.  The freight actually incurred by the producer for delivery of cement F.O.R. Railway Station is reimbursed by the Cement Controller from Freight Regulation Account of the Cement Controller to which every producer has to subscribe as per Cement Control Order. So the selling prices of cement at all places adjacent to Railway Stations and at Factory are the same. But if the cement is to be carried o other destinations, the extra cost is to be borne by the consumer. The Shillong Station of the Road Transport Corporation is an out - agency of Road Transport and Assam Cements was initially allowed by the Government of India to realise an extra charge at the rate of Rs. 40 per metric tonne as out - agency charge which is equivalent of the freight charges from Gauhati to Shillong, as the carriage charge from Cherra to Shillong is not reimbursed by the Cement Controller of India. Thus, the wholesale rate for supply of cement at Shillong is more by Rs. 40 per metric tonne than the rates prevailing at Gauhati and other places. At the time of fixing retail rates, Assam Cements are charging 10 per cent extra charge and godown charge at the rate of Rs.2 per metric tone for sale of cement at other places, But at Shillong they are not charging 10 per cent extra or godown charge which are taken as included in this extra charge of Rs.40 per metric tonne. The average monthly sale of cement in Shillong is 800 metric tonnes. 

        Now, the actual price effective from 1st April, 1972 is as follows : -

        For all place except Shillong the bulk of supply, I will not go into all the details, is Rs.12.36 per bag. It is after calculation that the price of cement and the godown charges have been fixed at 10 per cent by the Finance Department to cost at Rs. 12.36 per bag here in Shillong. So there is a difference between the prices of cement in  other places and at Shillong. This system which has been followed in may places varies and fluctuates from time to time. Our Government is taking up this question with the Cement Controller or re- examine this policy of cement prices in our State. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I ask the Minister and through you, Sir, whether he can give us any information as to whether there has been any change in the policy because it was only in the month of December or January last, that this Rs. 40 per metric tonne, was made refundable by the local officer here in Shillong After that other persons can have some cement from Cherrapunjee only at Rs.11. So, Sir, whether the cement that used to be issued by these local officers here will be refunded or not. It is now presumed that this money is not going to be refunded by the cement  Controller of India. Therefore, Sir, in this respect I think there have some change.  

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries, etc. ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, what was before and what is now, everything is changed I am not giving the full history and only when I get all the facts would be prepared to make a fuller statement here. Regarding taking over the Assam Cements, which is still in the process, I may inform the House that we have appointed two Directors to the Board of Directors of the Assam Cements which is a public limited Corporation. We were still in the process of transferring shares by the Assam Government to the Meghalaya Government and we are now in the process of re- examining the affairs of the Assam Cements and trying to get expert advice on various management aspects and it will take a little time to state more regarding the things which have been going on wrongly in the past many years. One of the things is shortage of finance and these are the matters which the Board of Directors of the Assam Cements have to take up very very seriously and rapidly. I believe the members from our Government are examining this matter almost every day. There is some difficulty on the part of our members to run the affairs just now as they have to find out first the various facts, and get a full report as to what has been done. Within a short period of time the picture will emerge so that our Government will come to know what is the actual position. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know the names of the member of this Board from Meghalaya's side?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries, etc.) : The Financial Commissioner, Mr. Ramesh Chandra and Mr. Khosla, Secretary, Industries. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Whether they are in the official capacity as Ex-officio members?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries, etc. ) : Ex- officio, Mr. Speaker, Sir. At the moment the Assam Cement Factory is not  functioning because of the breakdown of some machinery. This is a matter of great regret regarding damage to a motor. The motor that was damaged is under repair but we are not in a position to say when the repair will be completed. But in the meantime, we have asked for the full report and enquiry into the causes of the breakdown. We have received an interim report which says that it is expected to take about two months before the motor will be received back after necessary repairs in Calcutta. Then the motor will have to be checked and installed. I am reading a note given by the Assam Cements Manager and I think this will enable me to clarify the point raised by the hon. Member. 

Shri Stanlington David Khongwir : Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know the date of the Report of Assam Cement?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries, etc.) : This is the note which was sent to me on the 4th April. 

Shri D.D. Lapang : Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I know if these two months are from the date of receipt of this note?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries, etc.) : It is not very clear but it may be two months that these motors have been sent to Calcutta. 

Mr. Speaker : Now, I would request the hon. Member to understand the contest carefully. Now the Assam Cements is still within the control of the Assam Government but now steps are being taken to take over the Cement Company from the Assam Government by the Government of Meghalaya. And when the Meghalaya Government takes over the Cement Factory from the Government of Assam then only the Minister will be held responsible for anything that may happen there. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are in a little bit of confusion. The Minister has stated in this House that the Government of Meghalaya had appointed two Directors in the Board of Directors. If they have the powers or the capacity to utilise those powers for the appointment of two Directors, I fail to understand now the Government of Meghalaya has not taken over the control from the Company. 

Shri S. D. D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries, etc. ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will read out that portion so that you will understand the position -

        (a) Taking over of the Company by the Government of Meghalaya. 

        In view of the decision of the Governments of Meghalaya and  Assam to the effect that all investments made by the Government of Assam in Assam Cements Ltd., should be transferred to the Government of Meghalaya and that the control of this Company should be taken over by the Government of Meghalaya, (a) The Government of Meghalaya nominated two Directors on the Board of directors as the Directors nominated by the Government of Assam were withdrawn. Besides this, the Assam Government officials who were members of the Board of Directors also resigned from the Board. A new Board has been formed with effect from 1st March 1972 with 2 Directors nominated by Government of Meghalaya, 2 elected by the Shareholders and one nominated by Industrial Finance Corporation of India. The Financial Commissioner nominated by Government of Meghalaya as a Director of the Company is the Chairman of the Board, while the Secretary, Industries Department, Government of Meghalaya who is also a Director has been appointed by the board as "Director-in- charge of the Company". (b) Steps are being taken to modify/amend the Memorandum and Articles of Association of the Company with the consent of the Shareholders in general meeting to be held shortly. (c) Government of Assam has been requested to return the share scripts held in the name of Governor of Assam for transferring the shares after correction of Share scripts to the Governor of Meghalaya. (d) Two meetings of the new Board have already been held since 1st March 1972 and important decisions taken. The process of taking over the Company from the  Government of  Assam has been started but not yet completed. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, incidentally since the Minister holds the portfolio of supply also, may we know from him what steps are being taken to ease the shortage of cement in Shillong. 

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries, etc. ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have already told earlier regarding this that some steps have been taken to get the D.Cs to make allotment of wagons to assist in getting whatever cement is available from other parts of the country to bring it to our State. Now the full production of Assam Cements, I am informed, may be expected to be resumed by the first week of May according to the estimate made at the moment. Some production is going on at the moment. Some aspect of full production is expected the first week of May. I would like finally to close with some clarifications on the industrial plans which have been undertaken. It is mentioned in the Governor's Address about the survey and discussions with different authorities, consultations on plans for industrial development. One or two things that we have been discussing very recently are the production of new Cement Factories and Clinker Factories particularly in the border where there are large deposits of limestone stretching from Garo Hills to Jaintia Hills. For supplying of clinker to Bangladesh, this should he examined in consultation with the Government of India and the Government of Bangladesh and it is in the process of feasibility studies being prepared. Until those are fully prepared, we cannot say at the moment whether this will come into operation or not. But the process of planning and preparing the ground for some mineral development for supplying to Bangladesh and the rest of the States apart from Assam Cement, is under examination at the moment. I think that is all I have to say regarding the various points raised by the Members. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of information, may we know whether the Government have given up the old grandiose scheme for industrial belt at Byrnihat and to bring railway line to Byrnihat?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) : We have not given up any plan. I do not know whether they are grandiose or not. They may be small or large plans. Planning for future industries has to take places and whether the railway line will come, we are pressing the Government of India for binging it to our State because it is necessary to improve the economic condition of the State. But we have not given up this plan. So I would like finally to say that we have seen in existence only from the 21st January, 1972 but before that it was an Autonomous State and in spite of many difficulties, shortage of accommodation in a common capital, as you all know, even in our Assembly, accommodation is difficult to arrange, yet we have managed somehow to organise some of the Departments. I trust that the members will not only criticise here in the House but to examine some of the difficulties and problems that we have faced and will continue to face for some time to come while this is a common capital and while we are to maintain good relationship with our Sister State. 

Mr. Speaker : I request the Hon'ble Minister to confine to his own department and leave the rest to the Chief Minister other wise the Chief Minister will have nothing to reply. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : He may have authorised him.

(Laughter)  

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) : I am sorry, I just want to say that I am grateful for the spirit in which most of the remarks have been made by the Members of the House and we shall do our level best to rise up to the expectations of our people to maintain the tradition which we have started to achieve the goal and bring in prosperity to all sections of the people both tribals and non-tribals with whatever protections and limitations are provided by the Sixth Schedule of the Constitution. 

Mr.  Speaker : Will the Minister, Finance, say something?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, before the Finance Minister gives his intervening reply, I would like to give a reply to Prof. Majaw with regard to the release on bail that I have just collected; the names are :-

1.

Ali Synteng on 4th April 1972.

2.

Jancho Lama on 1st April 1972.

3.

Ka Doris on 27th March 1972.

4.

Baliram Sindhi on 30th March 1972. 

5.

Maina Lama on 27th February 1972.

6.

Ramu (Nepali) Chetry on 30th March 1972. 

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, we on this side do appreciate the keen interest that the Members on the other side have shown and taken in all matters pertaining to our State and within the purview of the administration of the Government. Personally, I am glad to see that Members of the Bar also have come to this House who have taken keen interest in the matter of administration, justice and judiciary. I would first of all (At this stage the Speaker left the chamber and Shri P.R. Kyndiah took the Chair) like to clarify certain uncertainties on some points which were raised by the hon. Member, Shri S.D. Khongwir who is not here at the moment regarding various names given to this District. First of all, Mr.  Chairman, Sir, we have named for this part of the State the United Khasi and Jaintia Hills Autonomous District which is inclusive of the Shillong Subdivision and it is called the United Khasi Hills Autonomous District in spite of the fact that the Jowai Autonomous District has been created and separated from the District Council of United Khasi and Jaintia Hills District and this is because the creation of the Jowai Autonomous District has not been followed by necessary amendment. Mr. S.D. Khongwir has read a notification of the Governor on the 21st that we have the Khasi Hills District then after that we have also Shillong District.  This is mainly for the purpose of judicial administration with the jurisdiction of certain courts. First of all, we have the Shillong District consisting of three wards , i.e., the Jail Road, the Police Bazar and in European Ward with Cantonment under a different set of Courts. They are under the Munsiff of Shillong and then above the Munsiff, we have the Assistant District Judge and then the District Judge and then the High Court. 

Shri Maham Singh (Mawprem) : Mr. Chairman, Sir, on a point of information, is Shillong District involved?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : Shillong District has been formed after formation of Jaintia Hills District. Previously there were the British villages of Shillong Town. 

Shri S.D. Khongwir : I do not think that the notification says about the British areas of Shillong But it says that the British areas of Khasi Hills prior to the commencement of the Constitution do not form part of Shillong I also enquired from the Government yesterday, Sir, whether places like Laitlyngkot, Nongshylluit villages  are included in  Shillong District ?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : No, they are not included in Shillong District. Shillong Districts is created only with the erstwhile British normal areas of Shillong  Town. These were the Jail Road, the Police Bazar, and the European Ward with Cantonment areas. 

Shri S.D. Khongwir : That means there is something wrong with the notification. 

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : In so far as the Civil Court is concerned the three wards of Shillong, British, normal areas were called the Jail Road, Police  Bazar, and the European Ward with Cantonment areas formed within the Shillong  District for purposes of judicial administration that is under the Munsiff, the Assistant District Judge and the District Judge and other villages formed under the District Council  Courts. 

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Mr. Chairman, Sir, if the Hon'ble Minister has got the notification, I would like to request him to read it out. 

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : I have given to the reporters. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Chairman, Sir, the Minister has just observed that with regard to other areas other than those falling under the Shillong District, those areas are under the District Council Courts for administration of justice which I think is not totally correct.  The correct one is that in some respects, we do not fall under the District  Council  Courts. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Chairman, Sir, regarding Cantonment there is overlapping between the Military Police and the Civil Police controlling the Cantonment areas. 

Mr. Chairman :  I think there is no overlapping over the police. Have you got that notification?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : The notification says that the Governor has been pleased to order for the creation of a new District to be known as the Jaintia Hills District and thereafter the District of Jowai will  cease to form part of the existing District Khasi and Jaintia Hills but it shall be formed into a separate district of Jaintia Hills with Headquarters at Jowai. But the areas known as British portion of Khasi Hills prior to the commencement of the Constitution of India shall be known as District of Shillong with Headquarters at  Shillong. What is the meaning of  British villages in the rural areas or the British portion of Khasi Hills, I am not very sure to say but I would mean only the portion within Shillong that ate the British villages. Here we have British villages outside Shillong town as separate category altogether and they formed part of United Khasi and Jaintia Hills as I have stated earlier that we have the United Khasi Hills and then we have the Khasi Hills Civil District and then we have the Shillong  District. But the British villages referred to as Laitlyngkot and Nongpoh are outside Shillong Town and form part of the United Khasi and Jaintia Hills District and they are under the jurisdiction of that United Khasi and Jaintia Hills District.  

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Bifurcation has taken place and we have followed a notification. 

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : Here the British villages always formed part of the autonomous District of United Khasi and Jaintia Hills but British portion never formed part of it. That is why it is called normal area. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Chairman, Sir, the Minister-in- charge has said that the British villages cannot form a part of the British portion of Khasi Hills. I think this is a contradiction in terms. The British portion can also be a portion of the British area of Khasi Hills. So, the British portion also includes the British of Shillong and the British portion of the rural areas. So, Sir, if there is no clear definition then in this notification the British villages will also form a part of the British portion of the Khasi and Jaintia Hills District. 

Mr. Chairman : I think the notification is not very clear. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : It might have made more clear but legally these notifications are quite sound because these British villages and the British portion of Shillong are quite a part. These are being ceded by the Ruler of Mylliem and purchased by the British, while the British villages were in  a different category. 

Shri Maham Singh : In the notification it is written 'the British portion of Khasi Hills' and not the British portion of  Shillong'. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : As a pat of Jowai. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : In view of the controversy, we require a ruling from the Chair. 

Mr. Chairman : Are you raising a point of order?

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : I am only seeking your ruling on this point. We hold that the British portions in the rural area are within the areas of Khasi and Jaintia Hills but the Hon'ble Minister- in- charge of  Law holds that it means only a part of Shillong. 

Mr. Chairman : Is it a point of order or a point of clarification?

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : You have to give a ruling,  Sir, because if you do not give a ruling then the controversy will continue and we will go on challenging and he will go on defending himself. If you, Sir, in all wisdom, reserve your ruling, you will kindly allow this matter to rest at this stage but if we persist in giving our  interpretations this controversy will continue. 

Mr. Chairman : I think your contention is whether the British villages in Khasi and Jaintia Hills include also not only a portion of Shillong but also portions  outside Shillong and according to the Minister-in-charge he said that according to the legal interpretation it includes only the Shillong portion of the British portion and not the villages. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : The Advocate General has been consulted on this and he was also given this suggestion to remove all doubts. Regarding the British villages the word may be added to this notification : "Other than the areas under the partially excluded areas under Order of 1936"may be included in the notification prescribing the Shillong portion other than those areas partially excluded. So, Sir, that is clear that the British portion is quite different from those villages under Order of 1936.

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : May we know whether the legal opinion is acceptable. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : Yes this is acceptable and it may be amended.  

Shri Stanlington David Khongwir : Mr. Chairman,  Sir, we would like you to make it very clear regarding this matter which the Hon'ble Minister has admitted that there is confusion.   

Mr. Chairman : The confusion is there. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : To make it more clear we have agreed to modify this notification. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Now, Sir, my question is one concerning the cantonment area ; whether it is included within the Shillong District?

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : Yes, the cantonment is included within the Shillong District. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : We know that the Military Police are patrolling in the area and there would be over lapping with the presence of Police. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : The question of Police over lapping does not arise as it is only for the administration of justice by the Courts. So far as the Police are concerned, we also have a European Area which is different from  other pars of the State. Of course, the European Ward has, for a limited period of time, become a Police District. 

Mr. Chairman : Would you like to continue. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : Again we have another part which is different from the District as a whole. It is called the Shillong Administered Area, that is the Shillong Municipality which has 12 Wards minos the 3 Wards and the Cantonment and there we have the Court of the Deputy Commissioner, the Additional Deputy Commissioner and so far as civil jurisdiction is concerned we have these different sets in the Shillong District for the purpose of judicial administration. Then we come to the District as a whole which consists of two parts where we have the Syiemship areas and then those British villages under the Partially Excluded Area Order, 1936. Under the Syiemship we have village courts for the villages and then the the Syiem's Court which is called the Additional Subordinate District Council Court but in the whole District we have also the Sirdar's Court and these are Subordinate District Council Courts but not the Additional Subordinate District Council Court and in both of them we have the Judge of the District Council Courts. And then we have courts for the tribals and the non-tribals and when a tribal is a party all his cases will go the Deputy  Commissioner's Court and not to the District Council Court because the District Council Court has been declared to be a non- tribal court. 

        Now I come to the linked question that was raised by Mr. Koch, that is, regarding the administration of justice. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta (Nongkhlaw S.T.) : May we know whether there are any proposals under consideration of the Government to straighten up this very anomalous situation? Such a situation may be a paradise for the lawyers and it is a labyrinth for the poor people. Sir, may I know, through you, their activities.  This position should be made very simple.

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister of Law) : Government have taken up this question very seriously. We have to bring up the integration of the District Council courts and then we can integrate these District Council courts with the State courts. We are in the process of re-constitution of courts in various districts. Then together with re- constitution of the courts in the districts of Meghalaya we will come to the question of change that has been raised by other Members. Then at the proper time we can bring in changes in the administration, rules and bills that have existed for so many years in these district of Meghalaya. This will involve the application of the laws of the country both civil and criminal, laws for the uniformity of administration of justice in these district and we are now in consultation with the District Councils concerned. We have sent them letters to which they have to reply. Perhaps one of the main bottle- necks  is about the absorption of those officers of these courts and then staff thereof. I have taken up this matter in consultation with the officers and Deputy Commissioners for bringing about very soon the integration of those courts into State courts. Together with integration we may consider the separation of judiciary from the executive.

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : We may take all sections of this House into confidence before we bring such a fundamental change in the administrative machinery of this State.    

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister of Law) : As a matter of fact it is only in the process of implementation as has already been passed by Parliament under the Assam-Re- organisation (Meghalaya) Act, 1969.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw (Mawhati S.T.) : Mr. Chairman, Sir, may we know whether it is the intention of the Government to take a District Judge for trying the tribals of Shillong district here?

Mr. Chairman : So, at present the status quo is being maintained. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister of Law) : Under the Assam Re- organisation (Meghalaya) Act, we have taken steps and with that object in view we are having the integration  of the State courts for all the districts. Regarding the delay it has been the chronic problem all over India. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem (Mynso - Raliang S.T.) : How long this transitional period will remain?

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : Unless the other competent authorities reply to our question and respond to our call it will be difficult to finalise the whole set up. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : The exact position is this. As we know, under the Sixth Schedule of the Constitution of India there is a provision for setting up District Council courts to go through cases. This has been amended and the District Council will continue to set up the courts in the lower level and in ministerial level. Now in that process we have got to consult the District Councils in the district level as to how many tiers the courts would like to have whether village level, district level and so on. All these things are in the process of consultation. Once we get a definite reply from the concerned District Councils we shall be in a position to go ahead with our programme of setting up of judiciary in the state level and also in the District level. This is the only scheme which is necessary and we have received information from the two District Council but from one District Council we have not got a reply. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : What about the Khasi Hills District Council? It is in the fitness of things that the five year period ahs expired and I think they are waiting for the next District Council. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : This matter was long long before the expiry of the five-year period. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem : We have receive two information from the Chief Minister. So far as the District Council Courts are concerned, the Sixth  Schedule had been amended to enable then to try both the tribals and non-tribals and then according to the Law Minister, Mr. Chairman, Sir, the District Council courts will have to try non-tribals. That should be taken up by the District  Council courts. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : A provision has been made to amend the Sixth Schedule but it has not been implemented. Therefore, at present the new provision had not been given effect to. 

Mr. Chairman : In order that this matter will come to a close, I will take it that the Members of the House are keen to see that implementation of the amendment takes place as early as possible. Consultations can take place in three categories one with the District  Council. The other with the Members of the Bar and thirdly with the Members of this House. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : To it mat be added the advisability of increasing the number of Magistrates with judicial powers. It should be properly organised. They are entrusted with various duties and they are doing all kinds of works like stopping the cars, and stopping the trucks instead of looking after the cases in the Courts. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem : Mr. Chairman, I am not yet clear with the enlightenment given by the Chief Minister regarding the implementation of the amendment in respect of courts. Mr. Chairman,  Sir, the Courts of the District Councils have been constituted under the provisions of paragraph 4 of the Sixth Schedule an now when that paragraph ahs been amended, I do not understand, how it could not be implemented and how those courts could not function according that particular paragraph. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr. Chairman, Sir, it has not to be done by issuing a notification. But now we have not been able to come to an agreement with the District Council authorities with regard to the setting up of courts at the lower level other than the Subdivisional and the District levels. It is not for us to disturb the existing District Council Courts but the existing District Council Courts will be replaced as soon as we are in a position to have a clear idea with regard to the courts to be maintained by the District Councils other than the District and Subdivisional Courts. Therefore, today the District Council Courts are still functioning with the limitation of trying cases in which the parties to the suit belong to tribal community. Once we do away with the District Council Courts both at the District level and the Sub-divisional level, then the District Council will have the competency to constitute courts below the district and the subdivision. We cannot disturb before we can agree to the detailed arrangement with regard to the setting up of the courts at the lower levels. 

Shri Maham Singh (Mawprem) : Mr. Chairman, Sir, I want to know whether they can still function when their powers have already been abolished by a more recent Act. 

*Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Law, etc) : They will still continue until this amendment is given effect to. Here it says- " on and from such date as the President may, after consulting the Government of Assam or Meghalaya by a notification, appoint in this behalf ........... in relation to such Autonomous  district or region, as may be specified in the notification". They will take effect only after the notification. So this amendment is an enabling provision. But up till today the amendment has not been given effect to both in respect of the question of tribals and non- tribals and also about the question of abolition of the District  Council Courts. 

        I would also like to say about some of the points raised. Some members had insisted on the declaration of a firm policy on the question of separation of judiciary. It is only after we can complete the full process of constitution of courts that we can examine and take a decision regarding the separation of judiciary from the executive. 

Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh Mawnai (Mairang S.T) : On a point of information, Sir, may we know whether the Syiemship Courts are to be abolished, because we have Syiem States in the district. 

*Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Law, etc) : We have in the amendment Block Courts and Village  Courts. The Syiem Courts in this district will continue. But we may take away only the  District Council Court - only that court near the Bara Bazar. 

        Last of all, I will say something about the question of delay which has been raised by  Mr. Koch. This is an all India problem. The delay of justice and harassment that is caused to the parties to the cases in courts is an all India problem and different agencies have been appointed by the Government of India like the Law Commission and other agencies to examine this problem and to remove the difficulties. We do not know as yet what the Commission will recommend as to the solution of the problem. It all depends very much on the atmosphere existing in the court between the three parties, namely, the Magistrate or the judicial officer presiding and the lawyers of the two parties. All of them suffer loss of time and loss of energy whenever a case is adjourned. Also their clients behind them will have to suffer loss in many ways. All these are problems have actually drawn the attention of the whole country and Commissions have been appointed to remove this problem. In any case, we on the part of the Government, will examine the work- load and will see, if possible, to increase the number of judicial officers and magistrates to expedite the backlog of arrears of cases pending in the court. 

        Then on the question of excise, there was an amendment moved by Mr. Rowell Lyngdoh and Mr. Maham Singh which has touched on the application of the Excise  Act. On the 8th September 1961 the Governor of Assam extended the application of the Excise Act, 1910 to the Khasi State areas.  The Excise Act was in force all along in the non-States areas of Garo Hills, Khasi Hills and Jaintia Hills. Then the District Councils of Khasi and Jaintia Hills passed a resolution recommending the extension of the Excise Act to all Khasi State areas according to the extension given by the Governor of Assam in 1961. Then some parties went to the Hon'ble High Court to challenge the legality of the extension. The Hon'ble High Court declared that the notification was incompetent or for that reason the Excise Act was not in force t eh said areas. On appeal to the Supreme Court, the  Court on 23rd November 1971 set aside the judgement of the Hon'ble High Court of Assam and held that the notification extending the Excise Act to the Khasi State areas was validly made an as such the Excise Act was n force in those areas.  Therefore now we have the Excise Act in force all over the District of Meghalaya. 

Shri Maham Singh : Mr. Chairman, Sir, I think the Excise Department is not effective. 

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Excise) : This is the matter and now I will reply to that. 

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh (Mawkyrwat  S.T.) : Mr. Chairman, Sir, on a point of information. There are some Acts which are applicable to all areas of the State an in view of that, I think the control also should be uniform either in the Syiemship or in the Government areas. 

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Excise) : Yes it will, as the hon. Member from Mawprem constituency, Shri Maham Singh has pointed out. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Chairman, Sir, may we know whether the Minister means Mr. Lyngdoh or Mr. Maham Singh (laughter). 

*Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Excise) : I have already mentioned the name of Mr. Maham Singh. About the effectiveness of the Excise Department, I would say this much. In our State the Excise staff is a small force. Just now we have nor Superintendent of Excise for this district and we have only two Inspectors of Excise. 

        We have 6 Assistant Inspectors of Excise and only two Head Excise Constables and the Excise Constables 39 including the Searchers. Though the excise staff is very small yet I would not say that it has not been effective. In fact it has become effective to a great extent. The following statistics will show that the Department is doing its best under difficult circumstances to detect and prevent illegal distillation of liquor. Last year we have 366 cases detected of illicit distillation. The number if cases ended in conviction is 261, the number of cases pending in court is 75, the number of cases pending for investigation is 30, the quantity of liquor seized is 1232 litres, the quantity of fermented material seized is 155 sets. These statistics refer to Khasi Hills alone. thus the Excise Department  with a small staff have been doing a very commendable job.

Shri S.D. Khongwir (Mawlai S.T) :-Mr. Chairman, Sir, on a point of information. How we will know whether the excise staff belong to Meghalaya or they are the Excise staff of the Assam Excise Department because at present we have seen only the Excise staff wearing the uniforms and badges of the Assam Excise Department?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Excise) : They all belong to the Meghalaya Government. We have not yet got the supply of uniforms and badges. 

Shri Jormanick Syiem (Mylliem S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister, Excise has stated that the Excise has stated that the Excise Act is extended to the Syiemship areas, and if so, may we know whether the Government has ten steps to control over the stills in the Syiemship area.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Excise) :- Yes.

Shri Jormanick Syiem :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, may we know whether steps have been taken by the Government of Meghalaya to check the illicit stills.

*Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Excise) : That is being done. As I have already said, in November 1971 the Supreme Court has decided that the Excise Act should be extended to the Khasi State areas. But in a very short period of time it is very difficult to regularise all the distillations of the stills in the Khasi Hills. At present stills are given license in consultation with the Deputy Commissioner. These licensed stills have come into existence from mid-night of 1947 as a result of the agreement entered into between the Britishers and the Khasi Syiems in 1911. But now that agreement has lapsed and the Excise Act is in the whole State. The Syiems have given permission, licences or receipts for distillation to stills at random. Distillation stills without the licence number of the Deputy Commissioner are treated as illicit distillation. The Government has taken steps to consult the Syiems as to the actual requirement of distillations in each village.

Shri Maham Singh : Mr. Chairman, Sir, may we know whether the Government has taken steps to regularise or check illicit distillations.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Chairman, Sir, if the Excise staff is small how then a provision of Rs. 4,73,000 has been made.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh ( Minister, Excise): Mr. Chairman, Sir, this figure is for the Khasi Hills alone.

Capt. W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : This question was raised in the previous Assembly also. Therefore, this is a question which cannot be decided by the Government without first taking into consideration the various aspects of the matter. It  must be dealt with taking into account the social practices of the people of Meghalaya. To be very brief, I would make it very clear that the Government has not taken a decision to go in for prohibition.

Mr. Chairman : The house stands adjourned till 2 p.m.

(After Lunch)

The assembly met at 2 p.m. with the Hon'ble Speaker in the Chair.

Mr. Speaker :The Finance Minister now will resume his intervening reply.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Finance Minister) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, though the hon. Member from Nongtalang is not here for the benefit of other Members, I may just state the sectoral allocation of the Fourth Plan. The other day the Member from Nongtalang has said that he was in the dark in so far as the Fourth Plan is concerned. For the Fourth Plan the total allocation for our State. is Rs. 38 crores out of which, we have listed Agriculture and Allied programmes 7.86 crores, for Co-operation and Community Development 2.38 crores, for Irrigation and Power 1.75 crores, for Industries and Mining 2.58 crores, for Transport and Communications 12.90 crores, for Social Services 8.24 crores and for Miscellaneous 2.92 crores and the grand total came to 38 crores.

        During the last few months Mr. Speaker, Sir, there has been some misunderstanding on the Land Transfer Act that was passed by the Autonomous State Assembly last year, which was reflected during the discussion here in this House. I would like to state  a few bare facts. Now, we are all agreed about the need for a Regulation on Land 
Transfer in  the interest of the Scheduled tribes within the State of Meghalaya. But there was a question of law and this question of law was raised in the High Court of Assam regarding the powers of the District Council to enact the land transfer laws. The High Court of Assam had declared on 3rd June 1968 that the Districts Councils Court under Paragraph 3(I) (a) of the Sixth Scheduled to the Constitution of India, was not competent to legislate on the transfer of land. The District Councils preferred an appeal to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court dismissed the appeal on 25th August 1971. Therefore, here was a vacuum to fill which the Autonomous State Assembly has to come forward with this Act, and that is the Meghalaya Transfer of Land Regulation, 1971 filling the vacuum that was left after the Supreme Court's decision on the jurisdiction of the District Councils on land transfer. This Regulation of 1971 was passed by the Autonomous State Assembly as a substitute to the land Transfer Act of 1953 passed by the District Councils. At the same time it was an improvement over the land Transfer Acts of the District Councils for one reason. Whenever a person applies for permission to transfer his land, the District Councils would pass it to the Head of the elaka who will pass on to the next. This will no doubt take quite a long time. In this Regulation such applications for transfer of land should be disposed of within 6 months. This is a great improvement. Then an appeal is also provided to the Board of Revenue of the Government.

Mr. Speaker : May I now request the Chief Minister to reply to the debate on the Governor's Address ?

*Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very grateful to the hon. Members who have taken a keen interest on the Governor's Address and bought forward the various problems faced by the people in the respective Constituencies and the State as a whole, and offer valuable suggestions. Sir, as you are all aware the Governor's Address covers a very broad policy of the policy of the Government and does not go into the details of the policy. The primary suggestion made by the hon. Members has been very encouraging and enlightened. My colleagues have already replied to a number of points and now, I have to reply to the questions not replied by them. The Member from Nongspung Constituency in his observation stated, that the Governor's Address should have reflected the representation of the people through the Members themselves and today in this House I am trying to give my explanation to the people of Meghalaya. Their aspiration has found a place in the Governors' Address in the first part of the Address. We have also found a place we have fought for a number of years in the country and found a place we have fought for a number of years in the country and now we are having our own political set up.  This has been stated in the very first part of the speech. Sir, during the period of struggle by the people of Meghalaya of course, we have come across a number of difficulties and obstructions and it has been really an arduous march. However, the aspirations of the people have found a place in the country and in the history of India that we have ultimately succeeded and today we are to represent our people in the State of Meghalaya through this House after we have achieved our full- fledged State. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, it will not be correct to say that the Governor's Address, being the first Address to the full- fledged State Assembly did not reflect the aspirations of the people. It May be argued, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that that aspect did find place in the Address but nothing was mentioned about what the Government of Meghalaya is going to tackle the problems of the State. Well, Sir, through you, I would like to inform the House that it is not possible in the Governor's Address to detail the various plans and programmes except laying down the broad principles, and that also has found place in the concluding speech of the Governor in which it is stated that "my Government is confident that in shouldering the heavy responsibility of promoting the welfare of the people, it will have the willing co-operation of all political parties and all shades of opinion so that every citizen is actively involved in the task of raising Meghalaya to the level of the more advanced sister States in the country. Of  course, in order to achieve this goal a number of programmes like socio-economic development programmes and other programmes would have to be drawn up and implemented. But those details will be more elaborate and more clear when we shall be discussing the revenue budget for the State of Meghalaya for the current year, some time in June. I would therefore, request the hon. Members to have patience. I can assure hon. Members through you, Sir, that their opinions, their valuable suggestions would always be taken into account. In fact, were are very fortunate to be the representatives of a small State like ours- we represent only ten lakhs of people, and I am confident that the 60 Members of this House representing one million people will be in the position to focus the problems in a very effective way. As started in the last part of the speech of the Governor, we need the spirit of accommodation both form the treasury side and the friends from Opposite. We have got only on e goal, to serve the people of the State. I have no doubt that we can achieve the goal, not within a short period, but in the long run. Well, Mr. Speaker, Sir, during the mass movement for achievement of Statehood, as I stated, we have come across a number of difficulties and obstructions, sometimes we were disappointed, we became discouraged. But the determination on the part of people ultimately brought about this goal. As it has rightly been pointed out by the Governor, the achievement of Statehood is not an end; it is only a means to serve the people. It will be known to all of us that the people of Meghalaya have completed the first chapter  of the journey. We are yet leaders and representatives of the people leading them on the path of the second chapter. It is going to be a more difficult journey ; it is going to be a more arduous journey. It  is not going to be a short journey, it is going to be a very very long, journey. So, as we have come across a number of difficulties and obstructions in the first chapter of our journey, we are also going to come across more difficult times in future. We are going to come across  a number of enemies and we must not forget these enemies which are in existence all over the State. We are to come across three big enemies. These enemies are not confined within a particular place or within a particular constituency. These enemies are everywhere, in every house, family, in every village through out the whole State. These enemies are known commonly as P.I.D. i.e poverty, ignorance and disease. It is not going to be easy to overcome these enemies. Is it the study of one Minister or the Cabinet alone? It is a common enemy which has affected every citizen of the State. Unless everyone is determined to overcome these enemies, only the Government efforts alone will not be possible to over- come them. However, Mr. Speaker, Sir, everyone of us should put our heads together and chalk our the programmes as to how best to combat  and overcome these enemies. Our programmes should be drawn up in such a way that they are directed towards combating these enemies. In this I would like, as I said, to refer to what has been said by the Governor in the last part of his Address, namely the active and unreserved co-operation of all political parties in the State of Meghalaya and primarily of the Member who have been elected by our people to represent them in this august House. 

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am definite that with the joint effort of all the political parties and the people behind them an with a firm determination we will be able to wipe our poverty, illiteracy and disease from our State. It will be possible for us to do so not in the immediate future but in due course. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would now like to refer to some of the points raised by the hon. Members Mr. D.N. Joshi, in course of this participation in the debate, wanted to know the government policy in regard to rehabilitation of families of the Jawans who were affected as a result of the different Indo- Pak war. The Government have gone into the question of providing relief an assistance to the families of those who laid down their lives for the country in the recent Indo- Pak war. Regarding this question, it has been decided to offer concessions by way of ex-gratia grant and also concessions in the field of education for the children of these Jawans and concession to the disabled Jawans in the matter of employment. These benefits will be made available to those Jawans and their families who are permanent residents of Meghalaya. 

        Some hon. Members referred to the Government's policy in the matter of recruitment to Government posts. As has been brought out in the Governor's Address, the Meghalaya Selection Board has been set up to rationalise the system of recruitment to different posts under the Government and with a view to ensuring uniformity in standards in respect of direct recruitment to posts where consultation with the Public Service Commission is not necessary (e.g. posts carrying pay scale the maximum of which does not exceed Rs.500/-). In this connection, Mr. Marak observed that reservation should have been made community- wise with special reference to Garos. In this connection, I would like to inform the House, through you  Sir, the Government decision with regard to reservation. Resorting to Clause 4 or Article 16 of the Constitution and keeping in view the adequacy of representation of these communities in the services under the autonomous State of Meghalaya in terms of their population and consistent with the maintenance of efficiency in the administration, the following reservation shall be made in favour of the Scheduled Tribes and Scheduled Castes in posts and services in connection with the affairs of Meghalaya which are filled by direct recruitment (a) There shall  be reservation of 40% of the vacancies in favour of Khasis and Jaintias. (b) There shall be a reservation of 40 % of the vacancies in favour of Garos. (c) There shall be a reservation of 5% of the vacancies in favour of any other Scheduled Tribes of the Autonomous Districts of Assam now within Meghalaya and the Scheduled Castes of Assam. At the same time it was pointed our not correctly by Mr. Marak that this reservation is meant only for the lower level. It is not so; it is in respect of the services under Meghalaya except for the posts to be filled in more or less with special qualifications, like Science, etc. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of information, what about the I.A.S posts wince the Chief Minister has spoken about all services except those special cases which include the person with special qualifications like  Doctorate and so on, what about Administrative Services. 

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, that is entirely with the Government of India, we can have Meghalaya State Forest Services, and Meghalaya Police Service. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the Government contemplating or is it trying to bring back our many central Service Officers in various States of the country? Is there any move from the Government?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, this is the policy laid down by the Central Government. In fact, it is meant to make available the services of Meghalayans now serving under the different States of the country, but the policy of the Government of India is not to encourage these officers to be posted only in their own native State. They want that there should be distribution of these Central Service Officers throughout the whole of the country. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : What about Public Service Commission?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : I am just coming to that.

Mr. Speaker : It is better for the hon. Member to understand the points which the Chief Minister is talking about. Unless and until he is allowed to complete the speech, it is very difficult for you to understand. 

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was just coming to the point. Mr. Lapang mentioned as to why no reference has been made to the Meghalaya Public Service Commission and wondered whether the Assam Public Service Commission still continues to look after the needs of Meghalaya. There is no mention in the Governor's Address. Article 315 lays down a Public Service Commission for the Union Territories and for the State. Subject to the provision of this Article, there shall be a Public Service Commission for the Union and a Public Service Commission for each State. However in this connection, as this Government has not been able to come to a  final decision  in regard to the setting up of a Public Service commission, it has entrusted for the time being to look after the duty of the Public Service Commission, to  the Union Public Service Commission under Article 315 (4) as a "temporary measure". There is of course a provision in the Constitution for the joint Public Service Commission but this is a matter to be decided by the House and not by the Government alone. But since that decision could not be taken as yet, we have entrusted this function to the Union Public Service Commission under Article 315(4). 

        Some hon. Members also referred to the need for improving the administrative machinery. I may assure the House that Government is fully aware of the need for gearing up the administrative machinery of the State and in fact, the  Governor has also touched on this aspect in his Address to the House. We are taking steps to constitute our own services and also to frame rules for various services. The details about the structure of services in the District Offices and Directorates will also be examined at the time of framing the rules. 

        Steps are also being taken for direct recruitment to various services to the extent necessary.  Steps will be taken for filling up vacancies in the various services and to overcome the problems of shortage of staff. The recommendation of the Selection Board will be implemented without delay. The delay is that, the Selection Board recommended the names and we have received the recommendation from it, but we have to refer to the Police for verification. However, seeing the urgency, the Government is contemplating to appoint them on probation subject to the receipt of favourable Police report. 

        Mr.  Rowell Lyngdoh also mentioned that Electoral Rolls had not been fully revised in many cases. I may mention for the information of the House that the last intensive revision of Electoral Rolls took place in January, 1970 before setting up of the State of Meghalaya. There was a proposal to take up intensive revision of  Electoral Rolls in 1971 starting from May, 1971. Owing, however, to the large scale influx of refugees from Bangladesh, it was apprehended that a large number of non- Indian citizens might be enrolled as voters as there was a possibility of the enumerators making mistakes in the absence of effective supervision by the senior officials of the District administration who were engrossed in relief work. Accordingly, the intensive revision was held in abeyance by the Election Commission, but in it s place, the summary revision of Electoral Rolls was taken up in order to enroll the m\names of citizens who had attained the age of 21 on or before 1st January 1971 as well as to remove the inaccuracies of the rolls used in the conduct of the General Election to the Lok Sabha. The Electoral Rolls were accordingly published inviting claims an objections from general public instead of taking up intensive revision. 

        Mr. Pohshna stated that the Border trade between Jowai and Bangladesh has been suspended recently according to the orders of the Bangladesh authorities. According to my  information some people from Bangladesh attended the bazar in the border at Dawki on the 2nd and also on the 26th March. However, as stated by my colleague this morning that the conclusion of Trade Agreement between India and Bangladesh was a good trend between the border so Meghalaya and Sylhet - Mymensing District of Bangladesh which will increase the trade substantial between these two States. Some members have referred to the difficulties experience by our people in the border due to the influx of refugees from Bangladesh last year.  We are very much conscious about the people in the border who has undergone  considerable difficulties during that period. Some of them were displaced for their own homes due to Pakistani aggression and shelling and most of them were given shelter and also relief by the Government. In this connection, I would also like to inform the House that as far as I remember this giving shelter and ration to the border people was accorded in respect of two States, i.e., Meghalaya and Tripura. As far as I know, the Government of India has also fixed the scale for giving resettlement assistance to those people in the areas affected by the recent hostilities between India and Pakistan.  Some hon. Members wanted to know whether instructions had been issued to collect information and whether reports have been received from the affected persons for giving compensation. I will check up this matter from the office as this was sent on 19th February, 1972. So far, in Garo Hills, 1,350 petitions were received in this connection approximately and enquiry is being conducted by different agencies including the District  Councils and Block Development Officers. It is expected that enquiry will be completed by the middle of next month. In Khasi Hills District so far, 1,400 petitions have been received and these are being enquired into by the Camp commandants. Once we are in a position to receive the complete enquiry report on these petitions from the various affected persons in the border area,  I hope we will be able to solve this problem wit you any difficulty since we have received sanction from the Government of India in this connection. So it will not be correct to say that Government has not been taking any action on the cases relating to the border people who had to suffer tremendously during the last influx of evacuees from Bangladesh. 

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh (Pariong S.T.) : Sir, we have heard from the Chief Minister that about 1,400 applications were received from Khasi Hills and we reminded the Block Development Officers and other officers in this respect. Now whether these applications were forwarded by the Syiems or any authority to the District Councils. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : In this regard, I have received information from the Deputy Commissioner's office and I have not been able to furnish information regarding petitions received from the local people for giving compensation by the Government for the damage caused to them by the refugees. Some cases were received from Balat and the Camp Commandant at Balat has been instructed to enquire and report on this and has report was received on 22nd March 1972 a copy of which was forwarded to the Secretary, R. and R. vide letter No. SLR/182/71/2087, dated 28th March, 1972.  So far we have received 1,400 petitions involving an amount of nearly 3 crores an  enquiries have been made by the Camp Commandant deputed for such work by the Government and no progress report of the cases so far is available. 

 Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Sir, whether these applications have been sent to the Camp Commandant for verification or whether any application was forwarded to the Government where they will be taken into consideration?

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, it will not be possible for me to answer every individual person affected and those who have submitted petitions. 

Shri Stanlington David Khongwir : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I understand that he posts of Camp Commandants have been terminated and in that case so many applications have been received from this District. How is it possible for these persons whose services have been terminated to make enquiries with regard to compensation ?

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Well I have received this report form the Deputy Commissioner only yesterday and from this I presume that the Camp Commandant has been functioning. Some Members also stressed the need for urgent setting up of two Sub-divisions one with Headquarters at Simsanggiri and another with Headquarters at Nongstoin. As I understand, the draft notification under the requisition Act for acquiring land has already been published and the draft declaration as required under Section 6 of the Acquisition Act is expected to be published soon. As a matter of fact, some engineers had also been posted there to complete the site plan of roads and buildings. As the Town Planner has since joined, the plans will be finalised in consultation with him.  

        As regards the Subdivision at Simsanggiri, various aspects are involved such as the extent of the Subdivision, compensation for valuable trees, etc., were re - examined recently in a meeting attended by the Chief Minister, Chief Minister, Chief Executive Member, District Council, the Deputy Commissioner and the rest.  The amount of compensation for fruit- bearing trees and valuable trees has since been assessed by the District  Council. the revised boundaries of the proposed Subdivision are awaited from the Deputy  Commissioner. Government are keen to inaugurate these  Subdivisions as soon as possible. 

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang : Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of information. I want to know from the hon. Leader of the House whether Government is intending to open a new Subdivision for the Nongpoh area. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Government have not considered to set up a Subdivision at Nongpoh as yet. 

        Well, Sir, as far as the Land Transfer Act is concerned my colleague has just now intervened but I would only like to inform the hon. Members that there should be no apprehension that the interest of the non-tribals would be adversely affected.  In fact, was correctly stated by my colleague, the Law Minister, in the original Acts adapted by the District Council, the conditions for transfer of land from a tribal to a non-tribal or from one non-tribal to another were specifically read out. But we have in this Act, under Section 4, laid down conditions because, as I have stated earlier, this act has been adapted by the previous Assembly under Clause 5 of Article 19 empowering the State to impose reasonable restriction on the exercise of the fundamental right for protecting the interests of the members of the Scheduled Tribes. The Act does not prohibit a non-tribal from acquiring land but it simply regulates such transfer with a view to look after the interests of the weaker sections of the community. Now, these are the sections for granting or refusing transfer :- 

        According to Section 3 the authority shall take into account the following measures, according to he circumstances of each case, whether a non- tribal holds any other land in Meghalaya : whether there is any tribal willing to take that land on transfer at the market value ; whether the non- tribal seeking the land is carrying on any business, profession or vocation in or near the area ; whether for the purpose of such business it is necessary for his to reside in that area; whether the proposed transfer would be to the economic interest of the Scheduled Tribes in the area. 

        Now, in the original Act, there were no conditions laid down. It is entirely at the discussion of the District Council Authorities but we have now laid down  specific conditions and that it is only while going through all these conditions that either sanction or rejection can be arrived at and all these conditions that either sanction of rejection can be arrived at and if the petition for transfer of land is not disposed of within a period of six months, it will be taken for granted that the sanction has been given. 

Shri Stanlington David Khongwir : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think there is a provision for a component authority. May we know from the hon'ble Chief Minister what that competent authority is ?

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Well,  Sir, we are going to notify on this subject and since, at present, land is vested with the  District Council, the Government are contemplating to notify the District  Council as a competent authority. But while disposing of this particular matter the District Council, by this Act.......

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point information there is a specification in the Act which states- 

        "After a person applying  for the purchase of land has submitted his application and does not receive a reply within 6 months from the competent authority, it shall be deemed that he has received the permission" 

        That means a person who normally would not be entitled to a plot of land but by merely passing five or ten rupees the file could be kept hidden and that after 6 months or so the permission to buy the land is given. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : I think we are not here to debate on the provision of this particular Act. The hon. Members have already had the information and I think it is now not open for debate. 

Mr. Speaker : Yes. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Well, Sir, a number of Members have made observations with regard to a number of problems in the Shillong Town. The Government are quire alive to the need for a cleaner Shillong. Knowing  the jurisdiction over the Shillong Municipality would come under the State of Meghalaya from 21st January 1972, the Chief Secretary of Meghalaya had already taken steps even on 11th January 1972 to convene a meeting with the Chairman, Shillong Municipal Board, the Deputy Commissioner, Khasi and Jaintia Hills, the Superintendent of Police, Khasi and Jaintia Hills, the Director of Health Services, Meghalaya, the Syiem of Mylliem, the Publicity Officer, Shillong, to discuss ways and means by which the clean- up operation for Shillong including Mawlong Bazar could be taken up in a systematic and co-ordinated manner. The Government are pursuing this matter and will make every effort towards its achievement. 

        The present water supply of Shillong  is also not adequate enough and the Government had recently agreed to grant a loan of Rs. 1,90,000 to the Shillong Municipal Board to augment the Shillong Water Supply Scheme. So far as the two unfortunate fire incidents, one at Police Bazar and the other at Mawlai are concerned, I understand that every effort had been made by the fire fighting services to fight the fire. The fire fighting services are not under the jurisdiction of the Shillong Municipal Board but even then I feel that we should not let their commendable services go unacknowledged when they had to fight against the odds of a huge fire in a driest part of the year before the rain starts. 

        It will be more correct to say that Shillong is the joint capital. But when Meghalaya became a full- fledged State that position no longer exists. Government of Assam have decided in principle to move down to the plains but it was not possible for them to shift with immediate effect. As a matter of courtesy it was agreed that they will continue from Shillong till they are in a position to move down to their new capital to be selected by them and the period for this is limited to 3 years. When Shillong was a joint capital in this autonomous State there was  a provision to appoint a committee in Shillong including greater Shillong so that the various problems particularly with regard to water supply and education should be discussed. Through this committee the necessary measures can be taken  jointly by the Government of Meghalaya and the Government of Assam. We could hold such a meeting only once and in the meantime Meghalaya became a full - fledged State and  the Committee ceased to function. In fact, it was the desire of this Government, that since Shillong was a joint capital both the Governments should draw up a master plan fro development of Shillong. Now I should say that the entire responsibility for development of this town is given to Meghalaya when it has become a full- fledged State. 

Shri Dhrubanath Joshi : On a point of information. The Chief Minister was pleased to inform the House that the Chief Secretary to the Government of Meghalaya has contemplated to convene  a meeting in which the Chairman of the Shillong Municipal board and the D.C., Khasi and Jaintia Hills and other people will be invited. But may I know Sir, through you if there is the necessity of inviting the Executive Officer of the Shillong Cantonment Board to attend that meting while taking up the scheme of having cleaner Shillong in future because I feel that Cantonment is a part and parcel of Shillong town.   

Mr. Speaker : These are matters of details which should not be discussed here. In fact, since the Chief Minister has admitted that the Government will take steps for having a cleaner Shillong, I think the details will have to be worked out at the departmental level. 

Shri Winstone Syiemiong : The point that as long as Government of Assam sits here in Shillong whether it should be treated as a free guest or a paying guest. 

Mr.  Speaker : The Chief Minister has already replied that according to the North Eastern Ares RE-organisation Act, the Government of Assam is to function from Shillong. It is not fair on the part of our Members to question the Act which has been passed by Permanent.  I think we must remain content with the provision of the Act. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Sir, I was just going to see the special provision of the act. My colleague is referring it to me while speaking about Shillong town. We have already started to do some work for Shillong town. We have already started to do some work for Shillong town. I would like to reply to the points raised by Mr. Joshi that somebody was not invited from Cantonment. While Cantonment is very much within Shillong, it is not within the Shillong Municipality. They are the agency for that.  

        Maintenance and improvement of almost all the roads within Shillong Municipal limits are at present done by the Government  of Assam. The matter pertaining to transfer to these roads to Meghalaya Public Work Department (Roads and Buildings) was taken up with the Government of Assam and it has been agreed to by the Government of Assam to had over these roads to Meghalaya Public Works Department (Roads and Buildings) on 1st April 1972 after clearing all liability incurred by them. Due to urgency in the meantime, Keating Road has been taken over from the government of Assam and the improvement works on this road are in progress. In order to remove congestion and to regulate the smooth flow of traffic, arrangements have also been made to improve the Lukier Road, keeping the improvement work confined to the present formation width of 18 ft. as the Cantonment authorities have not agreed to its further widening, as according to them, it may  involve certain complications like obtaining the permission of Defence Department, Government of India, etc.  The junction point of the G.S. Road and Sweeper Lane Road has also been improved very recently in order to ease the traffic congestion in that locality and arrangements have also been made to take up the improvement work of the Sweeper Lane Road, which is in a very bad condition. As regards roads within the Shillong Municipality, the repair and improvement works will be taken up consistent with the availability of funds, as soon as these roads are handed over by the Government of Assam. Improvement and maintenance of P.W.D. roads in Shillong are outside the Municipal limits and other roads are also being carried out as far as practicable consistent with the availability of funds. 

        Regarding the scarcity of water in Shillong, as raised by Mr. Majaw, a project costing Rs. 362 lakhs for greater Shillong Water Supply Scheme has been submitted to Government of India for technical clearance and loan arrangement and the same is awaited from the Government of India. as regards the existing Water Supply Scheme to Police Bazar, it is entirely the responsibility of the Shillong Municipal Board. 

        In regard to measures to improve water supply in rural areas, as raised by Mr. Rowell Lyngdoh, in general it may be pointed out that with a meager plan allocation of approximately Rs.40 lakhs per annum both for rural and urban Water Supply Schemes in the State it is not possible to take up more than seven to eight rural Water  Supply  Schemes per annum, provided there are gravity Water Supply Schemes. 

        As regards Mawkyrwat, one Water Supply Scheme was executed by the B.D.O., and the quantity of water is most insufficient. For a new and bigger scheme the water is required to be pumped from nearby streams. The capital cost of which is approximately Rs.6 lakhs as per the scheme drawn up during the year 1967, but the maintenance cost will be about Rs.30,000 per annum which is very high. The maintenance is to be borne by the people of Mawkyrwat themselves in case the scheme is to be taken up. 

Prof. Marin Narayan Majaw : For water supply scheme in Shillong big plans have been submitted to the Government of India. It is not like other plans. May I ask the Chief Minister what steps will be taken on adhoc basis for the time being. I am glad that a big plan has been submitted to the Government of India. It is an excellent one and I hope that it will actually come to fruition. But when we see the conditions of the people, specially  in Jaiaw and Mawkhar, lining up every morning waiting for a bucketful of water and when even the Manager of the Pine wood Hotel told me that he spends about Rs.10.000 per day for water, I would like to know what steps are being taken by the Government in the meantime. May we know that Mr. Speaker,  Sir?

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is another water supply programme from Umkhen which will give us about 80,000 gallons of water per day. It is expected that this scheme will be commissioned within a couple of months. Of course, this will not meet the requirement of the entire town. It is primarily to meet the requirements of Nongthymmai and that part of the town. We have already sanctioned Rs.1,90,000 to the Municipal Board for taking up the water supply programme from  Crinoline falls. These are the interim schemes before we can get the clearance for the bigger scheme of Rs. 362 lakhs. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know how much water will be derived from this scheme?

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : I have already said that the Umkhen scheme will provide 80,000 gallons of water per day and the other one will give about 1 lakh gallons of water per day. 

Shri Stanlington D. Khongwir : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, may we know what are the other areas to be included in the Greater Shillong Water Supply Scheme?

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : It is for Shillong but including the suburbs. (Voices ......including Mawlai). It may extend beyond Mawlai. 

Prof Martin Narayan Majaw : Sir, my question is still unanswered. Somebody remarked that liquor is more available than water to wash our faces. 

Mr. Speaker : Actually the question is about the special or immediate arrangements and what steps the  Government are taking to solve the scarcity of water immediately. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : I have already said that two schemes have already been taken up. I cannot do more than that. 

Shri Maham Singh : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, we want to know what temporary arrangement is being made by the Government like supply of water by the State Fire Service, etc.

Mr. Speaker : That is the intention of the Members.

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : In this connection, I would suggest the hon. Members kindly to think more seriously about it and to give us concrete suggestions what is to be done. 

Shri Maham  Singh : We want to suggest, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that water should be supplied by wagons and by the State Fire Service, Fire Brigade, etc. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem : Are we to understand that no temporary arrangement has been made by the Government at this stage?

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : We have already submitted a bigger water supply scheme and we are waiting for the clearance. So far as the Umkhen Water Supply Scheme is concerned, it is expected to be commissioned within a couple of months. The suggestion to supply water by tanks will have to be examined. I will have it examined immediately. 

Mr. Speaker : The questions and answers are too far a part. The question actually relates to the temporary arrangement to meet the scarcity of water, perhaps for a few days or for a few months. It was suggested by the hon. Member, Mr. Maham  Singh, that if the Government is aware of the fact that there is acute scarcity of water the Government may make arrangement to carry or to draw water form the sources by wagons or State Fire Service or something like that. That was the suggestion. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request that all these suggestions, should come through the  Shillong Municipality because supply of water to the town is their primary responsibility. So, I request that it should come through the proper channel. 

Shri D.D. Lapang : Mr.  Speaker,  Sir, the scarcity of water is in the town and everyone of us has been suffering from this trouble. It is really surprising that the Government is expecting a suggestion from the public when we expected from the Government that something should have been done by now. If they wait for the suggestion, the action will then be too late. We want to suggest to the  Government to take action immediately without waiting for the suggestions. 

Mr. Speaker : I understand your point. The Chief Minister told the House that the Municipality should have approached the Government and would have taken steps. But this is practically a new information to the Government. I think we should stop this discussion and the Government will look into the matter with Municipal authorities so that they will find out ways and means to solve this scarcity of water. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a submission. The Chief Minister had earlier asked for suggestions of the floor of the House and the hon. Member from Mawprem, as it his customary right has responded to this call and made certain suggestions. But most unfortunately, subsequently the Chief Minister said that this should be processed through the Municipality. So, it is a terrible let down to the Members, the representatives of the public. I would, therefore, request the Chief Minister to take immediate steps to take the Municipality into confidence. This is a common problem which has to be solved through our common efforts. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : The Government is not trying to shirk the responsibility. Since there is a Municipal administration, when in a subsequent reply I said, let it be processed through the Municipal Board, it is not meant that I am shirking the responsibility but because we have to take them into confidence. 

Shri Maham Singh : Municipality has failed. 

Shri P.R. Kyndiah : Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are all aware of the scarcity of water supply in Shillong. The problem if very acute. It is not a new problem but it is a problem for so many years. I quite agree that it is of extraordinary acuteness. I have a personal knowledge on the matter and Mr. Speaker,  Sir, if you allow me I would like to speaks a few words. 

Mr. Speaker : Yes, you have every right to speak as the hon. member. 

Shri P.R. Kyndiah : Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are two immediate schemes proposed to be implemented for augmenting the water supply of Shillong. One is the Crinoline Water  Supply Scheme. The expenditure ear- marked for this scheme is less that two lakhs.  The Greater Shillong Water Supply Scheme is a long term project costing Rs. 3 crores 62 lakhs.  

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are talking not about the schemes but the temporary measures of water supply. 

Shri P.R. Kyndiah : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, I do not know why the Member is impatient as not to listen to me. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem : Mr. Speaker, Sir, be cause we are in great need of water. (laughter). 

Mr. Speaker : Order, please. Unless and until we have patience, it is really difficult for the whole House to understand the whole thing which Mr. Kyndiah wants to say. 

Shri P.R. Kyndiah : Mr. Speaker, Sir, impatience does  not produce water (laughter).  The second water supply scheme is the Umkhen Project which will be commissioned very soon as the Chief Minister has already stated. Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, in so far as the immediate link is concerned I have a personal knowledge that the Municipal Board has tried its level best to give water supply to all citizens of the State by supplying through tank wagons. But it would be a good thing also if the Government come to the aid of the Municipality by way of providing it with fire brigade tankers to carry water for meeting the immediate water requirement of the people. Carrying of water by tanker wagons should be taken on a war footing for a few months now. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I put a suggestion that water floating the whole day sometime in Lachumiere area could be diverted to some houses. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, I would like to say that the Chief Minister has to make a reply to so many important matters and as such it would be better that the Chief Minister should convene a meeting comprising of the representatives of this House and the representatives of the Municipal Board to sit and discuss ways and means for the immediate solution of the problem. 

Shri G. Mylliemngap : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chief Minister has stated that the Umkhen water supply scheme is going to be commissioned very soon. But some days back I was told by the  S.D.O., Public Health Engineering that the scheme will not be taken up by the Government.

Mr. Speaker : Whatever a Minister stated on the floor of the House is correct and whatever an officer said outside the House is not correct. So, now I think it is better that we should close the discussion on the subject with the sense of understanding that the Government would also make all efforts to try to solve the problem of  Shillong water supply immediately. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Well, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the suggestion of Mr. Hoover Hynniewta is very much welcome. I would suggest that my colleague who is in- charge of Public Health Administration would convene a meeting and  discuss with the members of the Municipal Board and some elder persons of the State and see  how this problem of water supply can be tackled on a temporary basis. 

        Now I will come to the matters relating to the Public Works Department and I have an occasion to reply earlier about the Umsning- Jagi Road. This road is still under construction. The road has been recently made jeep- able. Improvement  works are in hand and construction of permanent bridges in places is yet to be taken up. Regarding Ampati- Pora Khasia Road the total length so far sanctioned is only 20 Kms. for Rs.12 lakhs. Sanction was issued early last year only and works are still in progress. With regard to the remaining length of 8 Kms. it is roughly estimated to cost Rs.8.41 lakhs. This would not be accommodated in the 4th Plan Road Programme of Rs.12 crores. This is proposed to be taken up from the border areas programme. Mr. Lewis Bareh has mentioned about the handing over of Jowai - Badarpur Road to B.R.D.B. thus depriving the local people of works. The Shillong - Jowai - Badarpur- Agartala Road was declared by the  Government of India as National Highway 44 sometime in July 1971.  Thereafter the maintenance and development of this National Highway from Jowai to Agartala has been entrusted to the Border Roads Development Board by the Government of India for reasons best known to them. The portion from  Shillong to Jowai is still with the Government of Assam but is being transferred to Meghalaya from 1st April 1972. 49 number of roads in border are totaling 1096 Km. in lengths and roughly costing Rs.1426 lakhs were proposed. These include new road and improvement of existing roads. So far Government of India has sanctioned improvement of 3 existing roads under the strategic road programme, costing approximately Rs.2 crores. These roads are (1) Dalu- Baghmara Road (2) Dalu- Purakhasia Road, (3) Mawsynram- Balat- Gomaghat- Maheshkhola Road. Another road Damra- Darugiri- Baghmara Road. has been taken over by the Border Road Development Board for improvement. 

        Sir, Mr. Stanlington D. Khongwir has talked about Byrnihat bridge on N.H. 40.  there is provision in the Central Sector for reconstruction of this bridge to a 2 - Lane Class 70 R bridge. The site has not yet been finally selected by the Ministry of Transport (Road Wing). The Government of India has now called for plans and estimates which are being attended to. He also mentioned about the Mawlai Bridge. Though this bridge lies in N.H. 40 as this falls within the boundaries of the Shillong Municipality, the responsibility of its maintenance and reconstruction lies with the State Government. As this scheme is not provided for in the State Plan (Assam), it may be difficult to take up immediately of its improvement. However, it will have to be examined whether by dropping some other schemes, this can be taken up. 

        Mr. W. Cecil R. Marak referred to the request made by the  District Council authorities for taking over of the roads by the P.W.D. but o wing to meagre allocation this cannot be taken over at present. 

        Mr. G. Mylliemngap mentioned about the  Shillong Diengpasoh Road. An suitemate for improvement of this road ahs recently been finalised and the sanction being issued at an estimated cost of Rs. 16,32,000 and about the Sohiong- Nongbsap Road mentioned by Mr. E. Kurbah, due to paucity of fund full length from Sohiong to Nongbsap could not accommodated in the 4th Plan. However, a length of 8 Km. from Sohiong and a bridge over rive Weilyngkut have been proposed for construction and sanction to this project at an estimated cost of Rs. 10,25,000 is being accorded.  On the Mawmaram - Nongthliew- Mawmih Road, the first 8 Km. from Mawmaram to Nongthliew have been included in the 4th Plan and sanction to the project at an estimated cost of Rs.5,00,000 has been accorded and the work is  in progress. 

        Mr. Plansing K. Marak mentioned about road communication in order areas.  Though the improvement of road communication specially in border areas is very important, due to paucity of fund, only a few such road could be included in the 4th Plan. Altogether 49 (forty- nine) Roads Schemes located mostly in border areas were suggested by the Government of Meghalaya, through a memorandum submitted to the Prime Minister for taking up and an additional financial assistance was sought for implementation of these schemes. Of these only 27 schemes, and that too in parts, could be accommodated in the 4th Plan. Unless additional financial assistance is made available by the  Government of India it may not be possible to take up all essential projects in the border areas. 

        About the roads in Lumparing area mentioned by Mr. P.N. Choudhury, it was a fact taht so long the roads within  Shillong Municipal limit were looked after and maintained by the Government of Assam. After the creation of full State of Meghalaya, arrangements have been made to take over these roads from Government of Assam and the roads are expected to be handed over shortly to this Government. After these roads are taken over the problem of improving communication  system in Lumparing area will be examined and accommodation may be made consistent with the availability of funds. 

        Now  I come to foot paths etc., mentioned by Mr. Upstar Kharbuli. So long the Public Works Department roads, footpaths, etc., within the Municipal limit were being maintained by the  Government of Assam. After creation of the State of Meghalaya arrangements have been made to take over these roads from Government of Assam and the roads are expected to be transferred shortly to this Government. It is not a fact that there is no schedule of rates. Each Division has it schedule of rates. 

        Well, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have been following the procedure of Assam Public Works Department Code in the matter of inviting tenders, etc., in accordance with Paragraph 285, 287 and 288 of Assam Public Works Department Code which lays down the procedure for acceptance of tenders which are reproduced below :-

        "Para 285 : Sealed tenders should invariably be invited in the most open and public manner possible, by advertisement in the Government Gazette or the Press, or by public notice in English and the Vernacular ; tenderers should have free access to the contract documents. The notice should state - 

(1) .......

The place, where and the time when, the contract documents can be seen, and blank forms of tender obtained. 

(2)

The place where and the time and date on which, tenders are to be submitted and are to be opened. 

(3)

The amount of earnest money to accompany the benders and the amount and nature of the security deposit required should either be forwarded with the tender in currency notes or deposited in the treasury; the duplicate copy of the Chalan being attached to the tender, cheques on Banks should not be accepted for this purpose. 

(4)

With whom, or with what authority the acceptance of the tender will rest. 

        Para. 287 : Usually the lowest tender should be accepted, unless there be some objection to the capability of the contractor, the security offered by him, or has execution of former work. In selecting the tender to be accepted, the financial status of the individuals and firms tendering should be taken into consideration in addition to all other relevant factors. at the same time the acceptance or rejection of tenders is left entirely to the discretion of the officers to whom the duty is entrusted, and no explanation can be demanded of the cause of the refection of this offer by any person making a tender. Such an explanation my be called for by superior authority if considered necessary.         

        Para. 288 : It is the definite policy of Government to encourage the natives of the Province (including those domiciled in Assam ) to take up contract work. Subject always to the recognition of the fundamental principle that contacts are accepted in the interest of efficient and economical work, a natives of the province should, other things being equal, be given preference provided the difference between his tender and the lowest satisfactory tender submitted by the foreigner does  not  exceed  five per cent of the amount of that lower tender"

        When, however, the competition is amongst the natives of the province, the principle laid down in paragraph 287 should be followed and no distinction made between them in respect of places of origin. In this connection, I am also to inform the House that the special concession should be given to tribals and their case should be taken into consideration especially, the tribal  Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes should be given 30 per cent concession. 

        Mr. P.N. Choudhury mentioned also about Labour. Labour and Employment is a new subject coming over after Meghalaya attained full Statehood. The Directorates under the Labour Department are yet to be established. This  Government will however, take all steps as provided for under the various Labour Acts to promote the welfare of labourers under "Industrial and other undertakings as well as solution of un employment in co- ordination with the Development Departments. 

        I will come not to Education. Now as I have told the House that the Sixth Schedule of the Act stated, " Such of these lands and building as the held by the existing State of Assam within the limits of the Cantonment and Municipality of Shillong, immediately before the appointed day as may be agreed upon between the States of Assam and Meghalaya shall be available for the use of the State of Assam, on the appointed day and thereafter for such periods as may be agreed upon by the said States". This is the provision. 

        "Where no agreement is reached between the States of Assam and Meghalaya on any of the matters referred to in  Clause (a), the  Central Government shall decide such matters and the decision  of the Central Government thereon shall be binding on the said States. Different periods may be agreed upon under Clause (a) or decided under Clause (b) for different lands and buildings".

Shri H. Hadem : Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of information may we know if there is a law for the passing of lands and buildings" between the Government of Assam and the Government of Meghalaya. 

Mr. Speaker : I cannot properly understand your question.

Shri H. Hadem : The policy which is now practices by our State is in accordance with the principle which was decided  by the Government of Assam where it will have to under take the burden  regarding some payment to be made for the use of lands as is provided under the Act. There must be some sort of agreement between the two Governments and in this connection, I think, there is no time limit on agreements made so far between the two States?   

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : This is really a very difficult point and I want to give a clarification to the hon. Member regarding this question of paying rent of the use of lands, buildings etc. There is a provision here which says, "Where any land or building is made available to the State of Assam on or after the appointed day then, not with standing anything contained in this Schedule the debt or other liabilities in respect of such land or buildings shall pass on to the State of Meghalaya only from the date from which possession of the land or building is given to the State of Meghalaya and the amount of such debt or other liability shall be determined by agreement between the States of Assam and Meghalaya or in default of any such agreement, by the Central Government".  So, now, we have agreed that the stipulated period for use of such lands and buildings should be 3 years, by the Assam Government. Now, with regard to education I entirely agree with the suggestions of the hon. Member that the present system of education  in our county and in our State in particular, is to indicate some changes or re- orientation. In the field of general education it is important for the Government to lay special emphasis to improve the educational institutions.  The Government have constituted a Commission under the Chairmanship of Dr. H. C. Bhuyan vide Government Notification No. SS/Edn.111/70/17, dated 22nd February 1972.  The Commission has scheduled to meet on April, 1972.  The members of the Commission are as follows : - 

1.

Dr. H. C. Bhuyan  ...

...

...

Chairman  

2.

Rev. B.M. Pugh ...

...

...

Member

3. 

Rev. Fr. A. Joseph ...

...

...

"

4.

Rev. Mother John (St. Mary's)

...

...

"

5. 

Miss. S. Swer 

...

..

"

6.

Shri A. Shylla (Retd. asstt. Inspector of Schools)

..

...

"

7.

Lt. K.R. Marak 

...

...

"

8.

Executive Member, Education , Khasi Hills District Council 

...

...

"

9.

Executive Member, Education , Garo Hills District Council 

...

...

"

10.

Executive Member, Education , Jaintia  Hills District Council 

...

...

"

11.

D.P.I Meghalaya 

...

...

Member Secretary. 

        Steps have also been taken to implement a Pilot Project for the teaching of Science in selected Middle and Primary Schools with the assistance of the National Council for Educational Research and Training (NCERT) and the United Nation International Children's Emergency Fund (UNICEF). As our institution are still  under the control of Gauhati University and the Assam Secondary Education Board, Gauhati, the new pattern of education to be followed by Assam will also apply to the state of Meghalaya until we have our own Board of  Secondary Education. It is also our endeavour to introduce, with effect from January, 1973 the new pattern of 10 (ten) years schooling before the High School Leaving Certificate Examination and 2 (two) years schooling for the Higher Secondary Schools Leaving Certificate after completion of the High  Schools Leaving Certificate Examination. 

        There is also a proposal to constitute a Text Book Committee with Regional Advisory Committee of the Garo Hills and the Khasi Hills including Jaintia Hills. Now I will come to the technical education.     

        Where technical education  is concerned we have to admit that our State is far behind other States in the county. At present we have only the  Shillong Polytechnic which imparts training in  Civil Engineering only. WE have,  however, submitted our request to the All India Council of Technical Education, which is the recommending authority for the implementation of Technical Institutions in the country, to recommend the introduction of Electrical and Mechanical Engineering courses in the Shillong Polytechnic. You are perhaps aware that there is a policy of recession towards the expansion of technical education by the Government of India as a result of the un- employment of  Engineers and Technicians. Nevertheless we have still put forward our proposal for the introduction of Electrical and Mechanical Engineering courses as it is felt that a full-fledged Polytechnic is necessary to meet the demands of all round development of the State particularly in the filed of industrial development. 

        It is also hoped that a Girl's Polytechnic will be established by the end of the; Fourth Year Plan; and the All India Council for Technical Education ahs been approached of recommending courses like Food Technology , Pharmacist and Tele-communications.

         Steps have also been taken to start a Junior Technical School at Jowai.

        Mr. H.S. Lyngdoh also mentioned about free education. It a fact that in general, education is free for boys upto the age of 14 years (Class VI) and upto Class VIII for girls. Where tribal students are concerned educations is free upto Matric Class for all students who do nor receive Government scholarships. Scholarship holders are expected to pay the school fees from their scholarships. The fees are Rs.2.00 per mensem for Classes IV and V, and Rs. 3.00 per mensem for Classes VI, VII and VIII and Rs. 4.00 per mensem for Classes IX and X. The value of the scholarships is Rs. 5.00 per mensem for M.E. students and Rs. 7.00 per mensem for High School students.     

        Government are also considering the question of gradually making education compulsory upto M.E. standard (age - 14 years), and for this purpose relevant facts are being  collected regarding population, distribution, location of existing schools, state of communications, adequacy of teachers, etc. This information will form the basis of the 'Education Map' which is to be prepared for the State of Meghalaya. 

        Regarding promotion and development of Youth Welfare, Sports and Games as observed by Mr. Khongwir, Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a more important subject. But let us all admit that youth primarily belongs to the individual family and to the state and the county as a whole. So it is only with the united effort of the parents and the Government that the problem of the youth can be effectively solved., However, for the improvement of Sports in the State of Meghalaya, Government have since notified the formation of a State Sports Council vide Notification No. SS/EDN 260/71/14 of 15th December 1971.  Steps have been taken to appoint a Sports Officer and after the sports Officer is in position it will be possible for the State Sports Council to start functioning. The State Sports Council comprises of the following persons :- 

1.

Minister, Education, Meghalaya 

...

...

President. 

2.

Chief Secretary, Govt. of Meghalaya

...

...

Vice- President. 

3.

Sports Officer, Govt of Meghalaya 

...

...

General Secretary.

4.

Mr. Kynpham Sing 

...

...

Hony. Treasurer. 

5.

The General Secretaries of the District Sports Associations of Shillong, Tura and Jowai. 

...

...

Members (3)

6. 

Chairman, U.K. & J. Hills District Council 

...

..

Member. 

Shri Rokendra Dkhar. 

7.

Shri John Deng Pohrmen, C.E.M., Jowai District  Council 

...

...

Member. 

8.

Mr. Kenneth Momin, Tura Government College 

...

...

Member. 

9.

To be selected by Council  Resolution 

...

..

2 Member. 

10.

Secretary, Education, Meghalaya 

...

...

Ex- officio Member. 

11. 

Secretary, Finance, Meghalaya

...

...

Ex- officio Member. 

12.

D.P.I., Government of Meghalaya. 

...

...

Ex- officio Member. 

        The Education Minister, Government of Meghalaya is also a Member of the National Advisory Board on Youth and the recommendations of the first meeting of the National Youth Board are under active consideration. the Union Minister of Education and Youth Services is the Chairman of the National Advisory Board on Youth with 13 other members drawn form the Union Ministries of Defence, Health, External Affairs, Home Affairs etc., 25 Representatives of all State Governments and Union Territories (Chief Ministers or Ministers), and 11 representatives of National Youth Organisation/Youth service Agencies like the Bharat Yuvak Samaj, the YMCA, the Young Farmer, Association of India, Bharat Scouts & Guides etc. The remaining 5 members include the Chairman of the University Grants Commission, the Chairman of the Central Welfare Board, the President of the  All India Council of Sports, a representative of the Planning Commission and the Joint Secretary of the Ministry of Education and Youth Services as Member Secretary. 

        The main recommendations of the first meeting of the National Youth Board are as follows :-

1.

Setting up of a State Advisory Board on non-student Youth Welfare and District Youth Boards.

2.

Establishment of Youth Centres at the District and Block levels.

3.

Development of trekking and hiking routes, and development of camping sites. 

4.

Appointment of Accredition Committees. 

        The National Commissioner, Bharat Scouts and Guides, had also visited Meghalaya during the month of March 1972 and we are considering the possibility of bifurcating the Assam Scouts and Guides Association so that Meghalaya can have its own association. 

        Mr. H.S. Lyngdoh made an observation regarding setting up of one L.P. School in every village. It is the cherished aim of the Government to wipe out illiteracy in the State of Meghalaya within the shortest possible time. At the same time, we have to take cognizance of the practical aspects, the problems and difficulties, that present themselves and have to be tackled in the course of implementing such a policy. The pattern of development in the rural areas of Meghalaya is largely determined by the firmly distributed population and the terrain; and in certain areas of the Garo Hills we are pursuing a policy of grouping villages in selected areas so that scattered habitations can be developed into economic units. The economic viability of such units/villages is a determining factor in the formulation of our education policy since we  have to take into consideration the fact that social services like Health and Education do not generate sufficient revenue to meet the cost of providing such facilities to our people especially in the rural areas. 

        We are determined to vive every child in Meghalaya the means of educate himself, but not at the cost of quality. 

        In order to provide 'quality education' for the children of Meghalaya there must be proper accommodation, a sufficient number of qualified teachers and above all, and adequate system of supervision and inspection. In the year 1970-71, there were 322 L.P Schools in the Jaintia Hills, 611 L.P. Schools in the Khasi Hills and 1,231 L.P. Schools in the Garo Hills. At the same time, there were only 3 Sub- Inspectors in the Jaintia Hills, 7 Sub- Inspectors in the Khasi Hills and 11 Sub- Inspectors in the Garo Hills. The recommended ration is 1 Sub- Inspectors for every 70 schools in the plains areas and 1 Sub- Inspector for every 50 Lower Primary schools in the Hills areas. The average ratio for Meghalaya is 1 Sub-Inspector for every 103 Lower Primary Schools, and it is clear, therefore, that we must approach with caution any proposal that would seek to remedy the educational problems by merely increasing the number of Lower Primary schools in the State., A haphazard and mushroom growth of schools could,  in the long run, prove detrimental to the educational interests of the state by mass producing children lacking in sound educational backgrounds; and the answer to our present problems would be to provide a regularly inspected, well managed and  adequately staffed school within easy walking distance for every child of age group 6/11 years. Mention has been made of the need to prepare an 'Education Map' for Meghalaya; and there is every reason to believe that such a map will provide Government with the required statistical material for putting into effect the policy of making every child literate within the shortest possible time, in accordance with a planned and phased programme of educational expansion. 

        Now I will come to Health. 

Shri HOPINGSTONE LYNGDOH : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know that the Chief Minister has made a statement that primary education is free and whether that is the declared policy of the Government or whether primary education now is really free in the State. Because in Khasi Hills we know that hundreds and thousands of schools are not free they have been contributed from the local people and they have to take the school fees from the children because they are to meet the salary of the teachers. Whether this statement of the Government is a policy statement in future or whether education is really free all over the country. 

Capt. WILLIAMSON A. SANGMA (Chief Minister) : I am aware that primary schools authorities are not taking fees for students and whether it is special schools or other schools they used to realise fees but the ordinary primary schools as far as my information goes are free. Of course it is a fact that a number of primary schools are being managed by the local villagers themselves but at least in my district they realise tuition fee though however, Government made a policy to give free education. So I can assure that I will collect information and make enquiry as to why tuition fees are collected and if these tuition fees are being collected then whether these schools can be taken over or can be helped by the Government through the District Councils so as to enable students to have their education free of tuition. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : May we know from the Chief Minister whether the implication of the statement is that education will be free in primary schools ? And whether it is a commitment that teachers of primary schools will have to be paid by the  Government ? Unless the Government undertakes the responsibility of paying the teachers there is no sense in saying that primary education in the State is free. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Since the primary schools are financed by the  Government through the Councils, it must be free. But in private organisations wherever they establish their own schools they collect tuition fees and until and unless the Government propose to take over these schools, we cannot compel them to give free education. But it will be up to the Government and the authorities themselves if they like to hand over their management of these schools to the District Council which will be finance by the Government, then such schools will be made free. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : The Chief Minister's statement is not clear. If schools are handed over to the District Councils and financed by the District Councils then education will be free and if they are already being financed by the Government through the District Councils we can appreciate that primary education in these schools is free. But there are hundreds of schools which are not yet taken over by the District Councils and which are not receiving any monetary aid whatsoever from the Government. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : We are concerned with  those schools whose schools  authorities are receiving aid from the Government and with regard to that, I think it will  not be possible for the Government to take over all schools at a time, but I have already instructed the department concerned to collect  information from the three different districts as to how many existing primary schools are being financed by the Government through the District Councils, how many villages are being catered by the existing schools and how many will have to continue District- wise so that we can chalk our programmes to cover the entire Districts and the State as a whole. As for private primary schools and with regard to Middle English Schools, we are going to prepare 'Education Map' for the State of Meghalaya so that by getting a detailed information we shall be able to take up a phased programme for extending free primary educating in the  State. It be a phased programme for extending free primary education in the State. It will be a phased programme and I cannot commit that this will be done immediately. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, in his statement the Chief Minister said that this information will be gathered because it is to be gathered through the District Councils. We know if it is a fact there are certain schools receiving monetary aid from the District  Councils and teachers' salaries are paid by these District Councils. So it would be better if information is gathered directly form the villages. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : In his intervention it appears, that Prof. Majaw is not asking for the information but he is suggesting and I am sure that his suggestion should come forward and so I would like to take shelter form you, Sir. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Then Sir, I will only seek clarification from the Chief Minister, and there are other aspects of the matter also. There are schools which have been taken over by the District Councils but the number of teachers appointed is not adequate. For example, one teacher for 100 pupils, so it not possible for one teacher to run a school with 100 pupils and it is a question also whether it is under active consideration of the Government ?

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : In this regard, under plan programme we have sanctioned some amount for entertainment of these teachers and it is up  to the District Council to see that every school is provided with adequate number of teachers and sanction is given of appointment of teachers which can be done in respect of new schools or appointment of teachers in the existing schools according to the number of students enrolled. So it is entirely up to the District Council authorities to make adjustment. But every year whatever plan education is made it is done without caring whether there are enough teachers in the schools or not; so we have got to take up this matter with the District Councils. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Sir, my opinion is to seek some clarification on the point of collecting information because some schools are not included in the list and there are a number of schools that will not be found in a particular list of primary schools which are not known to the outside world. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : We are going to collect information from whatever agencies an the District Councils will also be taken into confidence and we have taken some steps with the B.D.O.s. in our State who can give information. So I would request the hon. Members also to give every information they can in this regard. 

Shri Maham Singh : Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I know whether they Government has fixed the target that within a short period of time they will be able to provide free education to all the children of the State?

Mr. Speaker : I think the difficulty with this question is how can Primary Education be free to all children when some parents would like to send their children to schools where they have to pay. It is very difficult for the Chief Minister to reply off- hand without collecting information and also the number of villages and the number of children.

Shri Maham Singh : May we expect, Mr. Speaker, Sir, to know within what period of time Primary  Education would be compulsory and free.  

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : These are only suggestions and I think it will not be possible at this stage to indicate any target but we have to collect information. Now it is something at least in the Khasi and Jaintia Hills but in  Garo Hills there are a number of schools which are located on both sides of the small streams and if we can take up construction of bridges, then it may be possible that the villages can be made to depend on one school. All these factors would have to be taken into consideration and after that we will know hw many more villages are there with the number of children and then only the target can be fixed. Without collecting  the data, it will not be possible for me to give any information. 

Shri D.D. Lapang : On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir. According to the agreed policy between the Government and the  District Council regarding inspection of schools there will be overlapping because the assistant Sub- Inspectors of Schools are appointed by the  District Council, whereas the Government has got its own Sub- Inspectors of Schools. May we know from the Chief Minister whether the Government has a decided principle or some other principles?

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : As far as transfer of Sub- Inspector of Schools to the District Council is concerned it has been decided.

Shri HUMPHREY  HADEM : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just want to know the existing position with regard to free Primary Education. It appears the policy of the government is that free Primary Education will be provided from the State but there will be some schools run by private bodies which will not hand over these schools to the Government. At the same time, the parents as well as the people would go along to help implement this policy of the State. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Well, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I cannot force the private bodies to hand over their schools to the Government. What I want to say is that as far as the private schools financed by the Government are concerned, education will be made free. 

Mr. Speaker : I think it is not a question at all and it should not arise.  The  Chief Minister has made it clear that Primary Education would be free in those schools financed by the Government through the District Council. But he does not indicate, though the aim of the Government may be that, that in future free and compulsory education may be possible but it will be in the long- range process. 

Shri Maham Singh : Mr. Speaker, Sir, according to the directive principles of the  Constitution, that is, Article 45, it is stated that the State Government shall endeavour to provide within a period of 10 years from the commencement of the Constitution free and compulsory education for all children till they complete the age of 14 years. 

Mr. Speaker : The Directive Principles give an outline only and the whole country has not achieved that end. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I now come to Health. Before Meghalaya came into being, there were only 10 Primary Health  Centres in the districts now under Meghalaya. As a matter of fact, there should be 24 such entrees, one within the jurisdiction of each Community Development Block. During the last financial year, the Government of Meghalaya had already constructed........

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have not got the first point, so may we request the Chief Minister to read it again. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : As a matter of fact there should be 24 Primary Health Centres, one within the jurisdiction of each Community Development Block. During the last financial year the Government  of Meghalaya had already constructed 4 more Public Health Centres. We are taking steps to take up and complete the construction of the remaining Centres within the remaining period of the Plan as far as possible. 

        Before Meghalaya came into being most of the dispensaries in rural areas were without doctors. To improve health conditions in rural areas the Government of Meghalaya had taken every step possible to post doctors to all the dispensaries in rural areas and in the last two years we had appointed as many as 30 doctors. Unfortunately, 12 of them had not joined; who were posted to the interior dispensaries of Garo Hills. The Government of Meghalaya has also taken steps to approach other Governments like the Government of Arunachal Pradesh for doctors hailing from Meghalaya and serving there to be sent on deputation to serve in  Meghalaya. Some of those doctors had already joined and some more have applied and their applications are under active consideration.  To attract doctors to serve in the interior of the districts of Meghalaya financial incentives by way of addition allowances in addition to the normal allowances are given to them.

        To further improve health condition in the interior the Government of Meghalaya has started to set up mobile dispensaries to extend medical facilities to the people in the interior where there are no static dispensaries. We hope that when these mobile dispensaries start functioning full- fledgedly the rural people will be benefited.              

        The Government of Meghalaya has also taken steps to ginger up the health programme in the field of eradication of malaria, eradication of small-pox, therapy treatment of leprosy which generally affects people in the rural areas particularly. To help build up the health of the people in rural areas the Government of Meghalaya has also taken up to implement the nutritional therapy in 5 centres, 2 in Khasi Hills, 1 in Jaintia Hills, and 2 in Garo Hills to combat mal- nutrition of children in the pre-schools age group.

        The Government will always make the utmost endeavour to see that the people of the State and particularly those in the rural areas are given medical facilities to the fullest extent possible. 

Shri  Winstone Syiemiong : What about the policy of Government with regard to opening of hospitals in rural areas?

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : We have to fight out illiteracy and poverty. Here we have taken up a programme to extend medical facilities though out the whole State but it is not possible to do it in a day or two. But before we can do that we have first of all to produce doctors, nurses and compounders to man these hospitals. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : If such dispensaries also exist in other hill areas other than Garo Hills ?

Mr. Speaker : This question has been answered by Health Minister yesterday.

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : We will have to take up a programme so that medical facilities are available in other parts of the State and so whenever we establish Primary Health Centres we should also provide doctors and nurses. Now I would like to request the hon. Members to give valuable suggestions. These will be recorded in the proceedings of the House. It is not possible to reply to all questions. These will be found in the proceedings. I hope with the active co-operation form one and the other side we shall be able to serve the people of Meghalaya. I would, therefore, request our hon. Members who have moved the amendments to the Motion of Thanks on the Governor's Address to withdraw them.  We are always prepared to take all suggestions into consideration for the service of the people. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, yesterday I threw a challenge to the Medical Minister, and we want to get a reply from his before we withdraw these amendments. 

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) : But I am not yet ready. I am collecting the data and I am going to reply tomorrow. 

Mr. Speaker : This morning the Hon'ble Minister for Health had already informed me that he is not in a position to reply to day due so difficulties in getting the data from the whole state. I already told him that according to the practice in the House the Minister may give his reply on any day before the session or after the session. that information may be communicated to the hon. Members concerned through the Speaker's Secretariat. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : May I make a submission? This is not a matter where there Minister concerned should collect the figures from various parts of the State. This is a question of budget estimates, the only question raised by the member from Mawhati was what are the actual figures that are given in the budget. So, it is not a question that a lot of time will be needed for a reply. 

Mr. Speaker : What the Minister of Health has to say about that. 

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) : I have already asked permission to clarify the position to-morrow. 

Mr. Speaker : So, after what the Chief Minister has replied, will the hon. Members who have moved the amendments to the Motion of Thanks on the Governor's Address withdraw their amendments?

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are various amendments moved by various Members. My humble suggestions, Sir, would be to call out each Member and ask him to withdraw them. 

Mr. Speaker : Mr. Lapang will you withdraw your amendment No.1 ?

Shri D.D. Lapang : So far as amendment. No. 1 is concerned, I withdraw it but not amendment No.2. 

Mr. Speaker : Do you mean the first part of the motion, namely, "but the House regrets that the Governor's Address makes no reference to the urgent need for the proper and scientific development of dairy farming in the State; " But you do not want to withdraw the second part.

Shri D.D. Lapang : The second part I will not withdraw. 

Mr. Speaker : So, since the hon. Member insists that he does not withdraw the second part of the amendment, I put the question before the House. The question is that the House regrets that the Governor's address makes no reference to the urgent need for the proper and scientific development of dairy farming in the State."

(Voices ...... ' not that')

        The question is that the House regrets the Governor's Address makes no mention of the importance of developing the tourist industry in the State. 

        The motion is negatived. The amendment is lost.  

        Will Mr. G. Mylliemngap withdraw amendment No.2?

Shri G. Mylliemngap : I with draw my amendment, i.e., Amendment No.2. 

Mr. Speaker : Has hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his amendment?

(Voices ......... yes, yes).

        The amendment stands withdrawn. Before we go to Amendment No.3 I want to have the sense of the House. Since we have two more items today's list of business, may the House extend its sitting till 5.30 p.m?

        Is that the sense of the House?

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Can it not be continued tomorrow? It may so happen that we may not have too much Government business to dispose. Then this matter regarding the Hill University can be taken up tomorrow.

Mr. Speaker : In any case, may I have the sense of the House that we extend upto 5 p.m.

(Voices ......... yes yes)

        So, Mr. H.S. Lyngdoh, will you withdraw Amendment No.3?

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : I withdraw the amendment. 

Mr. Speaker : Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his amendment? (Voices.......yes, yes). So Amendment No.3 stands withdrawn. 

        Will Prof. M.N. Majaw withdraw Amendment No.4?

Prof. Martin N. Majaw : No. The first and the last parts, that is, the first and the third parts I will not withdraw. But the second part I will withdraw. 

Mr. Speaker : Since Prof. Majaw has not withdrawn his amendment, I put the question before the House. The question is that the "House regrets that the Governor's Address makes no mention of the Municipal Elections long over- due in Shillong; and in the matter of establishment of a Central Hill University for the North Eastern Region, the Governor's Address has taken the consent of the House for granted, while the matter is still pending before the House. 

Do you insist on a division?

(Voices ......... yes yes)

(Voices ......... test of strength)

        Now, I put the question again. The question is that the House regrets that the Governor's Address makes no  mention of the Municipal Elections long over- due in Shillong, and in the  matter of establishment of a Central Hills University for the North- Eastern Region, the Governor's Address has taken the consent of the House for granted, while the matter is still pending before the House. 

(Division)

        Those who are in favour of the motion will rise in their seats and subsequently those who are against the motion will rise in their seats. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Sir, may we know that there names of the Members are recorded an not the figure. As a matter of fact when a division is demanded the names of the Members who are asked to stand either in favour or against should be recorded. 

Mr. Speaker : This matter is under the direction of the Speaker as the case no longer counts with the names. All those who want their names of the recorded will be taken. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Sir, this is not the point to be done, in recording that such and such Member had voted in favour or against such and such motion. 

Mr. Speaker : Names will not be recorded. But as you insist on recording the names, the same will be recorded. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Yes, Sir, we want that our names should be recorded. 

Mr.  Speaker : May I draw the attention of the hon. Members to Rule 292,  Sub rule (3) (a) which lays down that "If the opinion of the Speaker as to the decision of a question is challenged, the shall order that the Lobby be cleared; (b) After the lapse of three minutes he shall put the question a second time and declare whether in his opinion the "Ayes" or the "Noes" have it ; "4 (a) If the opinion so declared is again challenged, he shall direct the "Ayes" to go into the "Ayes" or "Noes" Lobby, ass the case my be, each member shall call out his Division Number and the Division Clerk, while marking off his number on the Division List, shall simultaneously call out the name of the member : Provided that, if in the opinion of the  Speaker, the division is unnecessarily claimed, he may ask the members who are for the "Ayes" and  those for "No" respectively to rise in their places and, on account being taken, he may declare the determination of the House. In such a case the names of the voters shall not be recorded'. So, I  declare that the "Ayes" is 17 and the "Noes" is 31 with 4 abstentions. The amendment is lost.  

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Sir, that is the first occasion in the life- time of this Assembly and it is the first division demanded. May we, therefore, know whether you have given a funding that this division is unnecessarily demanded. 

Mr. Speaker : From the voice voters I have counted her, I found that it was unnecessarily demanded. But still since the hon. Members have insisted I gave the order that those who are in favour of the amendment  should first rise in their seats and those who are against should also rise in their seats. It is in accordance with this provision. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Sir, if the division is unnecessarily demanded you may not direct the Members to go to the Lobbies. But standing and counting of heads is still necessary. So I sought clarification from you on this point whether it is only for the first time that we are demanding this division and you very soon came to a finding that it is not necessary. 

Mr. Speaker : In fact the very provision of this particular rule is that I have called twice. In the first instance also after the division bell had rung only to ascertain my ears whether the voice "Aye" is stronger or the voice "No" is stronger and in my opinion I found that the voices of the Members who wanted for the division is greater, and so I think the division is unnecessarily claimed. So now let us come to amendment No.5 moved by Mr. Hoover Hynniewta. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Sir, I withdraw sub- amendments No.2 & 3 of amendment No.5. 

Mr. Speaker : Since Mr. Hoover Hynniewta has not withdrawn Sub - amendment No.1 of amendment No.5, I put the question before the House. The question is that the House regrets that the Governor in his Address did not make any mention of the application of the democratic principle in the constitution of the Block Development Committee'.        

        I now once again put the question before the House. The question is that the "House regret that the Governor in his Address did not make any  mention of the application of the democratic principle in the constitution of the Block Development Committee".

(Division) 

        May I request the hon. Member who are in favour of the  amendment to rise in their seats? Those who are against the amendment may kindly rise in their places. 

        The "Ayes" is 17 and the "Noes" is 31. So the amendment is lost. 

        Will Mr. S.D. Khongwir be willing to withdraw his amendment?

Shri Stanlington D. Khongwir : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I withdraw my amendment No.6, (1), (2) and (3). That is I withdraw all the amendments. 

Mr. Speaker : Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his amendment? (Voices- yes, yes). With the leave of the House, the amendment stands withdrawn. 

        Now, will Mr. E. Kurbah be willing to withdraw his amendment No.7?

Shri E. Kurbah : Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I withdraw. 

Mr. Speaker : Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his amendment? (Voices- yes, yes). With the leave of the House, the amendment stands withdrawn. 

        Regarding amendment No.8, as the hon. Member, Mr. H. E. Pohshna is absent, the amendment is  deemed to have been withdrawn. 

        Will Mr. Hadem be willing to withdraw his amendment No.9?

Shri Humphrey Hadem : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I withdraw my sub- amendments (1) and (3) but not (2) and (4). 

Mr. Speaker : So since Mr. Hadem does not withdraw sub- amendments (2) and (4) of amendment No.9, I put the question before the House.

        The question is that the Governor's Address makes no mention of the steps taken to relieve the poor hailstorm and pests affected cultivators of Jaintia Hills and Khasi Hills Districts, and makes no mention of the immediate holding of the District Council elections in the Autonomous Districts of the United Khasi Jaintia Hills and Jowai. 

(Division)

        The question is that the Governor's Address makes no mention of the steps taken to relieve the poor hailstorm and pests affected cultivators of Jaintia Hills and Khasi Hills Districts, and makes no mention of the immediate holding of the District Council elections in the Autonomous Districts of the United Khasi - Jaintia Hills and Jowai. 

        (The amendment was negatived with 17 Ayes and 31 Noes)

        Will Mr. Rowell Lyngdoh be willing to withdraw his amendment?

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I withdraw sub- amendment (1) of amendment No.10 and not (2). 

Mr. Speaker : Since Mr. Rowell Lyngdoh does not withdraw part (2) of amendment No.10, I put the question before the House. The question is that the Governor's Address makes no reference to the establishment or improvement of health and water supply in rural areas of the State. 

(Division)

        I put the question again.  The question is that the Governor's Address makes no reference to the establishment or improvement of health and water supply in the rural areas of the State.

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know whether 3 minutes were over when you put the question of a second time and declared that Ayes, or Noes, have it ?

Mr. Speaker : I do not know, it is exactly 3 minutes. If you challenge my findings there are some other means. 

        (The amendment was negatived with 17 Ayes and 31 Noes)

        Will Mr. Upstar Kharbuli be willing to withdraw his amendment No.11?

Shri Upstar Kharbuli : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I withdraw my amendment.

Mr. Speaker : Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his amendment (Voices - yes, yes).

        With the leave of the House the amendment is withdrawn. 

         Now I put the main motion before the House. The motion which was moved by Mr. D.D. Pugh and seconded by Prof. Peter G. Marbaniang. The question is -

        "That the Members of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly assembled in this session are deeply grateful to the Governor for the Address which he has been pleased to deliver to this House on the 25th March, 1972".

(Motion was adopted)

        Since we have very little time at our disposal, item No.2 of today's list of business, i.e., resolution relating to establishment of Indira Gandhi Hills University for North East Region of India, will be taken up tomorrow. 


Election of Deputy Speaker. 

         Hon. Members, now I take up item No.3 (1) of today's Agenda, namely, the election of Deputy Speaker. There are three Nomination Papers in favour of one candidate only, and I shall now read out the particulars of the Nomination Papers as required under the provision of Sub-Rule (5) of rule 8 of the rule of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Assam Legislative Assembly as adapted for the purpose of Legislative Assembly of the State of  Meghalaya. The three Nomination Papers are in favour of Shri Singjan Sangma, M.L.A.

Nomination Paper No.1. 

- Proposed by Shri D. N. Joshi, M.L.A.

   Seconded by Shri Dlosingh Lyngdoh, M.L.A

Nomination Paper No.2.

- Proposed by Shri Nimosh Sangma, M.L.A.

   Seconded by Shri Darwin D. Pugh, M.L.A.

Nomination Paper No.3.

- Proposed by Shri Elwin Sangma, M.L.A.

   Seconded by Shri Salseng Marak, M.L.A. 

        As there is only one candidate nominated to the office of the Deputy Speaker, I have much pleasure in declaring Shri Singjan Sangma to have been duly elected the Deputy Speaker of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly. 

        Well, hon. Members, I am most fortunate in this House for having Mr. Singjan Sangma on my left hand side. I have had the good fortune of having a very close intimacy with him for the last two years or so. Throughout the period of the Autonomous State Assembly, Mr. Singjan Sangma, has proved to be the most able parliamentarian and every time he participated in the debate of the House, he would always come forward with a constructive mind and every time, I found him to be person without any partisan outlook or attitude and this non- partisan outlook which he possess, will be a great boon to the Chair that he will occupy and it will be a great boon to me, that I may be relieved of sitting her in this Chair from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m. or 5 p.m.  In Mr. Singjan Sangma, I have full confidence that I am having a very very good lieutenant indeed. I am also very happy and very proud that in this House, the Chair of Speaker and Deputy Speaker, should have gone to both sides of the House. This is a very good indication that in the office of the Deputy Speaker and Speaker no prejudice to political consideration is given. The Chair that the deputy Speaker will occupy will really be the  Chair of impartiality which will be looked upon by each and every Member of the House  with impartiality and equality. With these few words, I congratulate Mr. Singjan Sangma for this unanimous choice that has been given to him by the whole House. 

*Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am indeed very happy that Mr. Singjan Sangma has been elected to this high office. I have already a personal acquaintance and intimacy with him for so many years because we come from the same district. He has a constructive mind all the time and he is also a person of simplicity and he is easily approachable to every section of the people. I am sure under his able guidance, Mr. Singjan Sangma, as the Deputy Speaker, will be able to maintain the dignity of the House and also guide the House in a very effective way. I am also definite that under his guidance and ability he will be able to conduct the business of this House and that any Member irrespective of the group he may belong, will receive an impartiality and thereby, he will conduct the proceedings of this House quite effectively and I am sure that all of us too have confidence in him. Every Member must have confidence in him and not only that, he will get more confidence from all sections of this House.  

Shri Maham Singh : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I congratulate our friend, Mr. Singjan Sangma  that the has been elected unanimously as Deputy Speaker of this House. During the last few years, I have known Mr. Singjan Sangma. He is a person of amiable nature and as a person who gives the top consideration to every discussion of this House. He should be impartial to all and under your guidance, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hope that he will be  ale to do his duty to the satisfaction of all.  With these few words, I again congratulate Mr. Singjan Sangma. 

*Mr. Speaker : Before I request other hon. Members of felicitate the Deputy Speaker, may I have the sense of the House that we will continue till Mr. Singjan  Sangma finishes his reply. (voices - yes, yes).

*Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, I also rise to associate myself with the warm and kind sentiments that have been expressed by the Chair and the Leader of the House to Mr. Singjan Sangma. The very fact that I am not very much familiar with with his name is a clear indication that we do not have a privilege to know Mr. Singjan Sangma. And also Mr. Speaker, Sir, as you are all aware, Mr. Singjan Sangma belongs to a group in this House as some journalists have described  as a friendly opposition. We believe, Sir, that while discharging his duty he will give his ruling in such a way that it will not amount only to outward obedience but it will also amount to inward obedience. We expect that in Mr. Singjan Sangma,  as the Deputy Speaker, the Members of this House will never have to resort to other extreme measures to depress our discontentment with the ruling from the Chair. You are very much aware, Sir, that in other parts of the country walk- outs are quite a regular feature of the proceedings of the Legislative Assemblies I earnestly hope and fervently pray that our Presiding Officers in the House, through you and in you, Mr. Sangma, we may not be compelled to resort to this extreme expression of disapproval of the Chair's ruling. So,  Sir, with these few words I warmly and sincerely congratulate Mr. Sangma on this unanimous election as the Deputy Speaker  of this House. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would also like to associate myself with the felicitations and the welcome given to the new Deputy Speaker especially as I had known him for a little over two years, though, of course, this time the association is more noisy on my part and silent on his. But his silence, Mr. Speaker, Sir, in these last few days perhaps was best suited for him since he will have to occupy a silent post where one can hardly speak and I also associate with the sentiments expressed by the hon. Member, Mr. Hynniewta, asking for impartiality and expecting impartiality for the new Deputy Speaker. We take it for granted that since he is a man who is accustomed to administration, accustomed to being the President of his District Congress Committee in the Garo Hills, he is will fitted to occupy this honoured position of the Deputy Speaker. 

Shri Singjan Sangma : Mr. Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members words practically fail to express my heart- felt, gratitude to the hon. Members of this House for their electing me unanimously as the Deputy Speaker of this august House and also to the felicitations they have given to me. I fully understand that this is a House which is the custodian of democracy so far it relates to our State of Meghalaya in its march towards peace and progress and prosperity in a way of democracy and in their regard, I would only sat that I, being a new man with a limited knowledge and who has no much experience previously in this job, can easily understand the dimensions of the difficulties while conducting the business in the House. But I have full confidence that, through your sincere cooperation and help, I may be able to discharger the duties that have been entrusted to me. So, Sir, my humble and earnest request to all the hon. Members from all sides of the House is that they will be extending their co- operation and help in discharging my duties. So, Sir, I once again express my gratitude, though you, to all the hon. Members of this august House for their electing me unanimously as the Deputy Speaker of this august House.

(Applause from all sides of the House )

ADJOURNMENT

Mr. Speaker : As there is no other business to be transacted, the House stands adjourned till 10 A.M. on Thursday, the 6th April, 1972. 

N.C HAZDIQUE

Dated Shillong : 

Secretary, Meghalaya Legislative.

The 5th April, 1972.

Assembly.

 

Proceedings of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly assembled after the first General Election under Sovereign Democratic Republican of India.

        The Assembly met at 10 A.M. on Thursday, the 6th April, 1972 in the Assembly chamber at Shillong with the Speaker in the Chair.

Mr. Speaker :- Before starting with the first item in today's list of business may I announced the Members of the various Committees. I appoint the personnel of the Committee as below :-

Announcement of the names of the members of Legislature Committee

RULES COMMITTEE

(Under Rule 259)

1.

Mr. B.B. Lyngdoh, Minister for Parliamentary Affairs.

2.

Mr. Hoover Hynniewta, M.L.A.

3.

Mr. Humphrey Hadem, M.L.A.

4.

Mr. Grohonsing Marak, M.L.A.

This Committee will function under the chairmanship of the Speaker.

Committee on Government Assurances

(Under Rule 257)

1.

Mr. Ripple Kyndiah, M.L.A.

2.

Mr. D.D. Lapang, M.L.A.

3.

Mr. Stanlington D. Khongwir, M.L.A.

4.

Prof. Peter G. Marbaniang, M.L.A.

Mr. P. Ripple Kyndiah will be the Chairman of this Committee.

Committee on Subordinate Legislation

(Under Rule 251)

1.

Mr. Jormanik Syiem, M.L.A.

2.

Mr. Maham Singh, M.L.A.

3.

Mr. Winstone Syiemiong, M.L.A.

4.

Mr. Plansing Marak, M.L.A.

5.

Mr. Reidson Momin, M.L.A.

Mr. Jormanik Syiem will be the Chairman.

Privileges Committee

(Under Rule 246)

1.

Mr. D.D. Pugh, M.L.A.

2.

Mr. Sibendra N. Koch, M.L.A.

3.

Mr. Upstar Kharbuli, M.L.A.

4.

Mr. Nimosh Sangma, M.L.A.

5.

Mr. Brojendra Sangma, M.L.A.

Mr. Darwin D. Pugh will be the Chairman.

Committee on Petitions

1.

Prof. Alexander Warjri, M.L.A.

2.

Mr. Akramozzaman, M.L.A.

3.

Mr. B.B. Shallam, M.L.A.

4.

Mr. D.N. Joshi, M.L.A.

5.

Miss Percylina Marak, M.L.A

Prof Alexander Warjri will be the Chairman.

        Let us now come to the next item in today's list of business.

Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have read out just now the names of the members of the privileges committee. But I have not heard the names of the Deputy Speaker. It is customary for the Deputy Speaker to be in the Privileges Committee. As a matter of fact, in the Lok Sabha, the Deputy Speaker is the chairman of the Privilege Committee.

Mr. Speaker :- I am very grateful that Mr. Hoover Hynniewta has pointed out the omission and I will certainly include the Deputy Speaker in the Privileges Committee.


Call Attention

        So, let us come to item No. 1 - Calling Attention notice by Mr. Lapang. Because the Chief Minister is not well, he has authorised the Minister, Finance to reply.

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to call the attention of the Chief Minister under Rule 54 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business to a news item published in the Hindustan Standard of the 29th March, 1972 under the caption "Army empowered to exercise special powers in North-Eastern Region.

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, the North-Eastern region is declared as disturbed area  to enable the Armed Forces to exercise special powers in the region including Assam, Manipur, Nagaland, Tripura, Arunachal and Mizoram. It is stated that though the situation in the region is more peaceful now than in the past, yet the Bill is brought forward to give special powers to the Army. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have seen many objection raised by the Opposition members in the Lok Sabha though we fail to see our own representative in the Parliamentary or even by the Government raising this point. I would be grateful if the Hon'ble Minister would give us a clarification on the point.

Mr. Speaker :- Will the Finance Minister make a statement ?

*Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Armed Forces (Assam and Manipur) Special Powers Act, 1958 was passed by the Parliamentary empowering the Governor of Assam or the Chief Commissioner of the then Union Territory of Manipur to declare, by notification in the official gazette, the whole or any part of the State or the then Union Territory to be a disturbed area, if he is satisfied that the area is in such a dangerous or disturbed condition that the use of armed forces in aid of the civil power is necessary. On such a declaration, any Commissioned Officer, Warrant Officer, Non-Commissioned Officer or any other person of equivalent rank in the Armed Forces would have certain special powers for the maintenance of public order, arresting suspects, searching certain premises, etc.

        On receipt of the Calling Attention Notice and on perusal of the news-paper report to which the hon. Member has referred, this Government has requested the Ministry of Home Affairs to furnish us with full particulars about the amendment to the Act as all relevant materials in this regard are readily available with the Government. Our Chief Secretary has also spoken to the concerned officer in the Ministry of Home Affairs regarding this matter on telephone and requested him to send the materials immediately. On receipt of the relevant materials the Government would study the same and take appropriate action.

        According to the officer of the Ministry of Home Affairs, the amendment does not withdraw any powers from the State Government and that the Central Government has only assumed concurrent powers to declare a region as disturbed and that such powers would not normally be exercised without consulting the concerned State Government. According to him, this is only an enabling measure and it has become necessary in the public interest, in view of the fact that the entire north eastern region in the country is still a sensitive area but that the actual exercise of powers by the Central Government would only be under exceptional circumstances.

        As mentioned earlier, the State Government would study the matter further on getting the relevant materials.

Prof. Martin N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I make an observation to ask for a clarification whether the Government of Meghalaya was consulted prior to the framing or introduction of the Bill.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister Finance) : Meghalaya did not exist at that time, in 1958. 

Prof. Martin N. Majaw : I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, Sir, prior to the introduction of the Amendment.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister Finance) : No.

Mr. Speaker : So, now let us come to item No.2. 

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, R. & R. etc.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your permission, may I give a clarification of the figures in the budget estimate? The figures that I have given the other day were correct and the figure given by the hon. Member was also correct. Both are correct. Mr. Narayan Majaw pointed our Rs. 10 cores - it was also correct but it was no included in 30 - Public Health and 29.- Medical. The total comes to  Rs. 10 crores.   

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : I still regret, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that the Hon'ble Minister has not coke to the point at issue. The point at issue was whether the budget estimates were 10 crores for displaced persons or Rs. 9.7 crores. It is clear here even on the admission of the Medical Minister that it is still 10 crores because if we look into the other grants the total comes to 10 crores. Even in this grant it is specifically stated "expenditure on water supply schemes for supply of water in camps for displaced persons drawn up in 1971".

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, R. & R., etc) : This is what I have pointed out just now. This amount was not included. Under 30 - Public Health and 29.- Medical only 8.7 crores and 2 crores respectively, so the total tallies.

*Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, the hon. Member, from Mawhati is right when he said that the Minister at the time when he gave out the figures did not include all the expenditure and for the sake of clarity he had decided the budget figures into a number of items. So, I would request the hon. Member from Mawhati not to press this point further. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : I accept the explanation. 


Privilege Motion. 

Mr. Speaker : Now, Prof. Majaw to raise the privilege issue against the local Khasi paper, " Ka Pyrta U Riewlum". Mr. Majaw. 

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, rise to bring to the notice of the House, under the provision of  Rules 158, 159, 160 and 161 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business, the following very serious breach of the privileges of the hon. Members of the House, in the form of  a news report in a local news- paper, "Ka Pyrta U Riewlum", of the 29th March, 1972, page 1 :- The relevant portion reads as follows in Khasi : ' Ha ka por ba shim ia ka bynta ba nyngkong da u Acting Speaker, Bah Jor Manik Syiem ban jied ia u Speaker, la don ka jingkaw-kaw bad pynwit da u Bah D.D. Lapang, Bah H. Hynniewta bad Bah M.N. Majaw kiba long ki Opposition." Sir, I consider this to be a great insult not only to the Members who have been selected for the accusation by the Editor of " Ka Pyrta U Riewlum" but also to the other Members of the Opposition who are equally being besmeared by this accusation. 

Mr. SPEAKER : Does not the hon. Member give an English translation?

Prof. M. N. Majaw : The English translation was prepared by the staff of the Assembly Secretariat and it reads as follows :"At the time when the Acting Speaker, Mr. Jor Manik Syiem, took the first part of the business in selecting the Speaker, there was undignified, unjustified and useless chatter, and obstruction of the House from Mr. D. D. Lapang, Mr. H. Hynniewta and Mr. M. N. Majaw, who are the members of the Opposition."

Mr. Speaker : Who did the translation work because in that word 'selecting' and 'electing' the meaning is quite different ? You have translated 'selecting' instead of 'electing'. From here it appears that it was you yourself who has translated because the meaning is very wrong. You may seek the assistance of this Secretariat while making the translation but you must take the full responsibility. 

*Prof. M.N. Majaw : I have accept the translation. The words 'selecting' and 'electing' may have the same meaning in Khasi. Therefore, our Khasi 'Jingkaw - kaw and ' Jingpynwit' correspond to the words "undignified" and "unjustified chatter", and obstruction of the House. 

Mr.  Speaker : From whose authority did you translate 'Jingkaw - kaw' and 'Jingpynwit' as undignified, unjustified and useless chatter? There must be some authority wherefrom the House will be given the exact meaning of the word. 

Shri P.  Ripple Kyndiah : Sir, in so far as the translation is concerned, the words 'undignified, unjustified' did not come in.  I quite agree with the hon. Member from Mawhati that the word "chatter and obstruction" should come in. But certainly not 'undignified and unjustified'.

*Prof. M. N. Majaw : Sir, translation is a matter of opinion because there are two types of translation, one is the giving of exact sense of the word and the other is the literal meaning. Even in the English language there are synonyms which do not have the identical translation. So, this is a matter of opinion. It is my considered and definite opinion that the words "Ka Jingkaw- kaw" not only carry the meaning of the words "useless chatter"' but is a connotation of the words "undignified" and "unjustified" and the word "Jingpynwit" carries the meaning of 'obstruction'. My hon. friend from Jaiaw has gallantly accepted that the words 'undignified' and 'unjustified' are included in the word 'Jingkaw- kaw'.

Shri P. R. Kyndiah : Sir, I feel that before we proceed with the discussion, I would like to get a ruling from you as to whether the words 'undignified' and 'unjustified' are to be accepted. 

Mr. Speaker : That is exactly not the point that the hon. Member has raised that I should give a ruling. My question to the hon. Member is that before he proceeds to establish that there is a prima facie case of a breach of privilege he smut also reply to my question whether he has consulted any authority on the subject regarding the translation. 

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, being a Khasi and having been elected as a scheduled tribe representative, I do not think it necessary to search any authority on the meaning of a single word "Jingkaw- kaw".

Mr. Speaker : Even an Englishman has to consult the Chamber's Dictionary. 

*Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Sir, may I make  submission in this regard? If you in all your wisdom think that the translation is not correct then you may give a ruling on that point that the hon. Member had given his own translation. According to me unless these words 'undignified' and 'unjustified' are included the word 'Jingkaw- kaw' will not have the same meaning in English as it has in Khasi. Therefore, before the hon. Member can establish a prima facie case of breach of privilege, it is necessary to determine in advance as to what is the exact English translation of the word 'Jingkaw- kaw'. Now, all the other members of this House who do not have Khasi  as their own mother tongue will be in a position to say as to whether the use of this word amounts or a breach of privilege of this House and of the Members thereof. So, I think Mr. Speaker,  Sir, in order that we can take one point at a time, I feel you should give a ruling as to whether it is a correct translation, if not, what is the correct translation.

*Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister for Parliamentary Affairs) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to have a word. The word 'Jingkaw- kaw' is a simple word and it is not as what the hon. Member has said because that would be a deliberate misguidance of the House for interpolation of the words which are not here. The simple word 'Jingpynwit' means obstruction and the simple word 'Jingkaw- kaw' means noisy. I have two dictionaries before me- the dictionary written by Mr. A.S. Shylla, retired Assistant Inspector of Schools and also quoting from the dictionary written by late Mr. Nissor Singh. Therefore there is no need to interpolate the word as 'unjustified' and 'undignified'.  Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would submit that the hon. Member from Mawhati has committed another breach of privilege and misguided the House by his deliberate interpolation of the words. 

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am happy that the Minister has also used the word clamorously in giving the translation of the word "Jingkaw- kaw".

Mr. Speaker : He quoted the word. 

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : I mean quoted. Mr. Speaker, Sir, one should be clamorous. In this House we are really acting in a dignified manner and also the connotation of the word 'Jingkaw- kaw" is also clamorously. 

*Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister for Parliamentary) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I cannot accept the translation. This is a complete misguidance of the House. 

Mr. Speaker : Before we come to the discussion, I think we have to hear the submission of the Minister for Parliamentary Affairs who is also Minister, Law and I would allow Prof. Majaw to vive this submission if he does not agree with the words 'clamorously' and 'noisy'. Now if we are to base the meaning of this word "Ka Jingkaw- kaw" on the dictionary of Mr. A.S. Shylla and also on the dictionary of late Nissor Singh, I would call upon Prof. Majaw to establish a prima facie case. 

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the prima facie case refers to what has happened on the first day when the Acting Speaker took up the matter of the election of the Speaker. At that time we raised a Point of order and that we did in exercise of our rights as the elected Members of the Assembly. We have every right to raise the point of order whether that point of order is ruled our or admitted. We were not clamorously insisting on the point of order or noisily insisting on the point of order nor to a less degree obstructing the proceedings of the House. The point of order is not an obstruction to the proceedings of the House rather it is part of the proceedings of the House and even laughter becomes a part of the proceedings of the House if it is recorded by the reporter. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I submit that using of these words to describe our action on that day and at that time under all circumstances amounts to a breach of privilege and there is a prima facie case. 

*Shri Maham Singh : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I feel that the word "Jingkaw- kaw" is not the proper word. Many of us here understand Khasi language and that the word "Jingkaw-kaw" does not mean making noises in an undignified manner. It is dignified. The word "Jingpynwit" carries the meaning of obstruction. But as far as the Members are concerned, during the proceedings of the House that day, we did not make this undignified way of making noises. We were making noises slowly. The point of order was raised in accordance with the Rules of Procedure of the House and in a right manner. No shouting was there on that particular day. I believe the  use of such words by the newspaper is very unfair. This is my submission, Mr. Speaker, Sir. 

*Shri Hoover Hynniewta : This statement, Sir, may amount to a serious bread of privilege. On that day certain points of order were raised and this is the right that has been conferred on the members by the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business. This right is the right conferred by Rule 300 which says like this : "A point of order shall relate to the interpretation or enforcement of these rules or such Articles of the Constitution as regulate the business of the House and shall raise a question which is within the cognizance of the Speaker". Sir, you  were part of the proceedings of the House on that day. We were allowed the opportunity  to raise a point of order on that day by the Speaker. So it was the legitimate right exercised by the Members duly recognised by the Speaker of the House at that time. 

        There is no "JINGKAW KAW" on that day no noise, undignified and unless making of noises on that day's The House was conducted in a most dignified manner by the Speaker, and also by the Members who took part in the deliberation on the day. And if by nature like Mr. Majaw and myself have been equipped with a loud voice and you have allowed us to speak, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that cannot be said as having made a noise. If it is otherwise, then a clause should be make in the Peoples' Representation Act that people or a Meghalaya with a loud voice should not be allowed to contest in the elections. (Laughter). Certainly, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we did so in a very dignified manner. There was no "KAW KAW" to carry a connotation of unless and undignified voice. So, Sir, it is very wrong on the part of the editor to say that there was "JINGKAW KAW" on that day. If it is obstruction, there was no obstruction on that day. Of course the hon. Member from Mawprem used the word "JINGPYNWIT' to mean obstruction.

        Again, the Speaker, might not have allowed the election of the Speaker, and we might have occupied the Speaker's chair and resorted to other physical actions. Obstruction may also imply physical obstruction. But there was no such physical obstruction on that day and after the Speaker has allowed us to raise a point or order he might have ruled out that point of order, that was a different matter. In fact, it was conducted in almost dignified manner and that too with the permission of the Speaker. So, Sir, there was no obstruction whatsoever, and the statement of the paper is false.

        Secondly, Sir, the statement was meant to cast aspersion on the persons who raised the point of order and the Speaker, Sir, who was conducting the proceedings of the House on that day. Members were accused of having made unless and undignified noise and the Speaker, in allowing the noise if he had ever allowed the making of that noise, or to obstruct the proceeding of the House, that is a different matter. But since the Speaker, did not allow any obstruction it was no more than casting an aspiration on the Speaker of the House who conducted the proceedings on that day. Therefore, I submit that by bringing out this comment in his newspaper, the editor and reporter had committee and serious breach of privilege and brought the House into disrepute and along with it the Speaker who conducted the proceedings on that day.

Mr. Speaker :- This particular matter involves both academic discussion as Prof. Majaw himself admitted the doubts whether the connotation of the two words "JINGKAW KAW" and "PYNWIT" and whether by using these two words till  tantamount to the fact that the dignity of the Members of the whole House has been derogated or not. It is really very difficult to be determined just not. I therefore, decide that the matter be referred to the Privilege Committee.

        I have reconstituted the Privileges Committee with the following Members :-

1. Mr. Singjan Sangma,  Deputy Speaker, as Chairman. 
2. Mr. D. D. Pugh - Member.
3. Mr. Upstar Kharbuli - Member. 
4. Mr. Nimosh Sangma - Member. 
5. Mr. Brojendra Sangma - Member.

        The Privileges Committee will submit its report on or before the 15th of June, 1972. 

        So we now pass on to the next item, i.e., Resolution relating to establishment of Indira Gandhi Hill University for the North Eastern Region of India. I now request the Chief Minister to move the Resolution. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr.  Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that whereas in response to the demand of the Representatives in Parliament of the Hill Areas of North East India, the Government of India have decided to set up a Central University to cater to the needs of the people of the Hill Areas of North Eastern India; and it is expedient that necessary legislation in this regard is passed by Parliament and;

        Whereas the subject "Education including Universities" falls within Entry 11 of List II- State List of the Seventh Schedule to the Constitution of India and, as such a resolution is necessary by Legislatures of two or more States as provided in Clause (i) of Article 252 of the Constitution of India to empower Parliament to legislate on this subject, and ; 

        Whereas the Legislative Assembly of Assam has already passed such a resolution ;

        Now, therefore, this Assembly hereby resolves that for setting up of a Central University for the North Region of India, the Parliament may pass the requisite legislation."

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we request the Chief Minister to give a background behind this Resolution and as to the reason why such a Resolution has been put before the House?

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr.  Speaker, Sir, as I am not well, I would request my colleague Mr. Nichols Roy to give the background. 

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries, etc.) :Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your permission, I would like to read from the background statement, as prepared. 

        1. "As far back as 1963, the tribal communities of Assam, Nagaland and N.E.F.A. (Arunachal Pradesh) had pressed for the setting up of a University in the North Eastern Region of India. The M.Ps. of the area had pointed out in September, 1963, to the Prime Minister, the late Shri Jawaharlal Nehru that Gauhati University was unable to meet the educational requirements of the Hills people ; and they, therefore, under lined the need for a separate Central University for the Hills Areas of North East India. 

        2. The representation of the M.Ps was forwarded by the Prime Minister to the University Grants Commission. The University Grants Commission, in consultation with the Ministry of Education, set up a Committee under the Chairmanship of Prof. A.R. Wadia to study the problem. The Committee expressed the view that for a variety of reasons, there was a strong case for the provision of special facilities for higher education in the North Eastern Region of India comprising Nagaland, NEFA, Manipur and the Hill areas of Assam. The Committee also recommended the setting up of a federal type of University (Central University) with a constituent college at each important Centre, and Shillong was considered the most suitable site for this University. The Committee further suggested that the Union Government should take appropriate steps to establish such University in the hill areas. The matter was also considered by the Planning Commission in a meeting held in September, 1964, in pursuance of which the matter was referred to the Ministries of Home Affairs and External Affairs. Both Ministries favoured the proposal to set up a Central University of the North Eastern Region but it was pointed out that, because 'Education' including 'Universities' was a State subject, the Central Government could introduce appropriate legislation to establish a Central University only under Article 252 (i) of the Constitution which requires that the Legislatures of at least two States should, through suitable resolutions on the subject, authorise the Union Parliament to do so. The Government of Assam passed the enabling resolution on 16th December , 1965 but the Government of Nagaland continued to have serious reservations on the subject. Hence no progress could be made in regard to the proposal. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : On a point of clarification, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Minister was saying  that the government of Assam is opposing the  resolution or the Assam Legislative Assembly?

Shri S.D. D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, I am sorry this statement is nor a correct statement. It is the Assam Legislative Assembly and not the Government of Assam for which I am grateful to the hon. Member for pointing it out. Now, with the emergence of Meghalaya as an Autonomous State in 1970, the enabling resolution was adopted in the First Session of the Legislative Assembly on 21st April 1970. There was therefore, no further constitutional or legal hindrance to the setting up of the proposed Central University. Copy of the Resolution was also sent to the Planning Commission in May, 1970. As explained by the Chief Minister earlier, the latest decision is that on 18th February, 1972 the Ministry of Education informed the Government of Meghalaya that after coming into force of the North Eastern Areas (Re-organisation) Act, 1971 the Resolution passed by the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly at its meeting held on 21st April, 1970 cease to have effect since it is not covered under Clause 77 of the North Eastern Areas (Re- organisation) Act, 1971, according to which, only the law in force before the appointed date, would extend and apply an any fresh resolution mist, therefore, be passed by the State Legislature of Meghalaya to enable the Parliament to legislate under Article 252(i) of the Constitution. This is the background Mr. Speaker, Sir. 

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, at the outset, I would like to observe that in the matter of education we are dealing with the youths and the children all over the State and also in the neighbouring States of the Hills areas. In respect of education we should not look at this subject with a political idea only, even when the Resolution is put before the House. So, Sir, I would like to plead with the hon. Members here to kindly divert their mind from the political, concept or thinking. Because Sir, there has been too much of politics in education. Since we are going to shape the future of our state and the future generation that will guide the students of our State, it is most essential that we totally take or shrink away from our minds any idea of political leaning or prejudice. In this respect, I should say that we should try our best we can. 

Mr. Speaker : Well, while you should keep yourself confined to the subject- matter, do you think we are not entitled to any political thought?

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, in this Resolution, there should be no political though or political prejudice and that is my humble submission. You know, Sir, we are trying our level best as we have already discussed the subject today, on the floor of this House. If we could sit together in a real Durbar, in any place in the Khasi Hills, to find our a good and real meeting place, to bring out different ideas, to bring out concrete suggestions that will really  help our youths tomorrow. First of all, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will add also some background to his. This is as our Hon'ble Minister has read out the backgrounds to the entire proposal. There is still a little bit to be added by way of an unofficial amendment in the sense that when the demand was made several years, ago, for our separate University, there was at that time no separate State for us and besides that at that time, there was no definite hope, no concrete hope to have a State of our own in the near future. at the same time, there was a real danger that "Assamese" is going to be introduced as the medium of instruction in the Gauhati University and therefore, suddenly, many of us, feel that our University would surely come and  would cater to the needs of the hills people, to meet the aspiration for a University of their own. As a matter of course, there are some parts in this North Eastern Region, that could bring the Central University for a thorough consideration and discussion in this Assembly of our own. Then again, Sir, we are proposing to submit the memorandum that the Central University be brought into being  in our State, in order to cater to the needs and to the special distinctive needs of the hills people. Because, Mr. Speaker, Sir, if we have achieved today this great dream into a reality, then we are standing here on the floor of this august House, which is capable in its own free will, to bring into existence or to create or to set up this University of our own. We have got all powers to do so and pass this Bill to that effect in this House. So these are also the background, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We are aware of the fact that we have such powers to shape our won destiny and adopt the form of education in our State that requires to be accomplished in the near future. 

Mr. Speaker : You are discussing education in general or a University?

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Education in general, Sir, which will be protected, nurtured and cultured by the proposed University. Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, here it must be admitted that one of the reasons for which we fought in order to get a separate State for our people was primarily because we have distinctive genius of our own, a distinctive character, a distinctive social structure which is uncommon, that was the main reason for which we demanded a separate State and we got it. 

Mr. Speaker : A political goal. 

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, we now have these persons within the State which was created upon this basis, upon this foundation and these persons are likewise distinctive in region, culture and language in most respects except the commonness of humanity. Therefore the type of education that will be evolved in which we will have this University must be such as will cater to the special needs, special genius and varsity must  be such as will cater to the special needs, special genius and the character that the hills people have. Now when we come down to the practical terms, it becomes quite a problem. Mr. Speaker, Sir, for one thing there are so many aspects or our tribal life which today are not looked after by other Universities. So many aspects even from the weaving side, or musical side or artistic side or form social or special psychological side. In addition to language also there is certainly a need by which we can educate our youth along with those very lines and not created what we might call cocktail product, a mixture of this and that, a conglomeration of various things which are not distinctive. When we look around, we see failure of educational system today. I myself am supposed to be an educated man but I humbly submit I am not supposed to be an educated man but I humbly submit I am not an educated Khasi because in the true sense of the term, when I passed the B.A. (Hons.) in History securing first position in the Gauhati University I knew nothing about the history of the Khasis nor of the Garos nor of the Jaintias. It never was a part of the syllabus and further, though we have got a degree in Arts, I am not at all qualified to speak on Arts with authority on the arts of the tribal people because when I was being educated I was not educated as I should have been. I think that is the case with some of us as we sit here because our educational system is different. 

Mr. Speaker : May I remind that the idea behind this resolution is to have a University which will cater to the needs of the Youths of our State. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : I am coming to that, Mr. Speaker, Sir. 

Mr. Speaker : You have not intimated to me how many minutes more you will take?

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Another 4 or 5 minutes, Sir. It is now clear that we shall have a type of university which will cater to those needs. Now Mr. Speaker, Sir, a Central University to be set up by an Act of Parliament and the Vice -Chancellor to be sent here under certain amount of control of Central Government poses quite a problem. For one thing, Mr. Speaker, Sir, though they say that a University is an autonomous body that its appointment  will be done freely and without constraint or persuasion from New Delhi or elsewhere, but as a matter of fact it does happen that those who exercise powers should influence the appointment of Vice -Chancellor and are also able to influence the appointment of professors and Heads of Departments and even the selection of syllabi. That is one argument against the basic principle of having a Central University. I was told by the Chief Minister that the present Minister of State for Education had a desire to create a type of university which would not be like any other Central Universities but would be of a new nature and which would look after our interest and certain amount of autonomy of its own. But if it is not going to be the case, we would like to have an assurance from the Chief Minister that our hills people would have the lest say in the affairs of such University; in the formulation of syllabi and in the appointment of Heads of Departments, in the running of the University or otherwise. It will not bring that special talent to cater to the special needs of our hills people. It will not bring that desired effect for which we are now sitting and labouring our minds over. Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, let us leave this matter to the educationists who have been actually in the field of teaching day and night, even at night they give tuition. They have met together and submitted a Memorandum to the Education Minister and also to the Central Government laying down certain conditions. If these conditions are fulfilled, they would agree to the proposal to have a Central University and in their proposal, I may be allowed to read out one or two lines from the Memorandum on the proposed University submitted by Syngkhong Kyntiew Ri to the Education Minister of Meghalaya. Here after the preamble they have suggested, having taken some more for granted, that ultimately this University will cater more to the needs of our State than to the needs of other States because though they are included in the proposal they have not shown keen interest as participants of this University and so they have suggested that there should be a governing body as small as practicable with a maximum of 12 Members divided into the following groups with 3 literary personages to be nominated by the Government and it will be confined only to this State and if it is confined to other neighbouring Stases, I am sure it will be open to further suggestions that the Governments of those States also would nominate one literary person from the Hills tribal in that State. Then 5 teachers will be selected by the recognised Colleges 2 of whom must be tribal and one must be from each of the tribes and then 2 principals of affiliated colleges to be nominated by the principal of all affiliated colleges and one representative to be nominated by the  Government without any condition laid down. Now, I do not know whether this case will be acceptable by the treasury Bench but they are the conditions laid down by educationists and I would humbly submit that they are the people precisely who are aware of the needs and difficulties of our tribal people. 

Mr. Speaker : But you have not suggested any nomination from men of science and technology. 

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : I am coming to that in the later part but I don't want to take more time Mr. Speaker, Sir. If Khasi language is to be enriched and raised to the highest possible level certain subjects like music, fine arts and handicrafts should be incorporated in the present system of education. In this respect, there should be two types or two kinds of principles to be laid down; one is that it should have a job oriented syllabus and the other is on certain other suggestions which would take time to read but the basic fact is that education should be very strongly pressed. If we have a Central University in which all these conditions are fulfilled, I am sure even our Opposition friends here would give the whole - hearted support to this resolution even of course, after one grammatical mistake. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Why don't you say it here now? (Laughter).

Mr. Speaker : What is that grammatical mistake?

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : That is parliamentary instead of Parliament may pass any legislation. So Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I humbly ask the Hon. Minister incharge of Industries and Education or the chief Minster to give us some assurance as to whether the hill people will have nay definite and controlling influence over the affairs of this University. 

Mr. Speaker : What do you mean, the  hill people of Meghalaya or of other neighbouring States also?

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Well I mean for the hill people of Meghalaya and I am not speaking or I am not a person to speak on behalf of  the hill people of other States. 

Prof.  Alexander Warjri (Mawkhar S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to support the resolution moved by the Chief Minister relating to the establishment of the Indira Gandhi Hill University in the North Eastern region of India. In 1963, the tribal communities of Shillong gathered together at Seng Jingtip Hall and after long deliberations all of them came to a unanimous decision that the hill people, e. i., the tribal people of the hills need a University and accordingly, sent a memorandum copies of which were sent to the M.Ps. of this region. This memorandum was taken up by all the M.Ps. who also sent a representation to the Prime Minister, late Jawaharlal Nehru who forwarded the said representation to the U.G.C. As we have heard just now from the Chief Minister, the Wadia Commission came in December. In 1965 December the Assam Legislative Assembly passed the enabling resolution but unfortunately, the Nagaland Government reserved its opinion and did not pass any resolution otherwise by now, we would have had that Central Hill University. Prof. Narayan Majaw has just now said that at that time the Hills people moved for a Central University because there was no hope for the achievement of the Hill State. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : I said no concrete hope, there is no concrete hope and no hope. 

Prof. Alexander Warjri : It means all the same (Voice : No, no).

Mr.  Speaker : Hope is there. 

Prof. Alexander Warjri : Mr. Speaker, Sir, all of us who had taken part in the movement for a University were part and parcel in fighting for a Hill State including our friends in the Opposition and all of us had concrete hope for we fought vigorously for achieving a State. We were united at that time and Prof. Narayan Majaw was very much in the fore-front. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I may draw your kind attention to Rule 279 (ii) which says that : "it is desirable that as far as practicable the Member should not refer to by name but in some other suitable way'. For the Member who has just last spoken I think the words 'hon. Member from Mawhati' are enough, if it is unavoidable. The name should not be used to make safeguards for any intervention. And if the constituency is known , it should be described as 'the hon. Member from that constituency'.

Mr. Speaker : Sometimes the hon. Member also forgets and it is not undignified to refer by name. But it is better to avoid. 

Prof. Alexander Warjri : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will try to avoid that. In October, 1971, when  the Education Minister of India announced the establishment of a Central University at Shillong I remember that myself and some other Professors, including our hon. Member from Mawlai attended the meeting at the St. Edmunds College, at which a statement was made by the Education Minister. No such protest was made against the establishment of the Hills University or against its nature. Then on 21st January 1972, the Chief Minister of Meghalaya announced that the Hill University. Then again, I come towards the end of 1972. A  big group of College Professors also approached Prof. G.G. Swell, Deputy Speaker, Lok Sabha, and the question centred round the proposed University and there that group of Professors expressed the fear that in this Central University in Meghalaya - for example, they  would not have any hand in the affairs of that University especially in the matter of control ; that the Central University actually will not serve the interests of the Hill people and cater to their needs and also in the mater of appointment especially the outsiders would have more chance. These were known pertinent questions put before the Hon'ble Deputy Speaker of the Lok Sabha. The Professors also said that they would also like that the tribals should have representations in the University Courts and in the Senate. Another fear expressed by them was especially that representatives from Nagaland, Tripura, NEFA and other States would have a majority over such Courts and Senate. They also gave arguments for and against the State University. Many of the arguments were also put forward i.e., control of appointments by the State and appointment of local talents and so on. Now, to have a State University is a welcomed thing but we have to consider this from the side especially that of finance. 

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question arises as to who will finance this State University? In our State, even administration is mainly financed by the Centre. Of course, there was a suggestion that the Centre can still do it and it would only  be a transfer of books of accounts. However you must remember that the University is not a department - not like the Public Works Department., the Education Department or the Health Department - it is something that goes on for a long time. If we are going to have a State University supported solely by the Centre, can we deny any say from the Centre.  This may go on from time to time perhaps for all time to come, as our State is financially backward.  Then also the question arises for the other newly created State in the North -eastern region. They also would demand the same thing and that would be a difficulty not only to the University but to the Centre as well. As the Deputy  Speaker of the Lok Sabha has pointed out on that day, many of these State Universities would welcome the taking over by the Centre, many of them are running into deficits- the Gauhati - Rs. 23 lakhs, Dibrugarh University, which has started just a few years back, Rs.13,000/- deficit and they have asked from the State for Rs. 20 lakhs as a  Reserve Fund. So Mr. Speaker, Sir, these Universities, especially our State University, would be a losing concern. Now, for the Central University, first of all, finance is there. But there are other things like buildings, ensured salary to those employed in the University. Any faculty could be opened at any time whenever necessary at once and the beset talents are available from all over the country and new lines of studies to cater to the needs of the people and according to their genius. These could be done only by a strongly financed Central University., We should not have a State University like other State University which are run according to the old system, which can produce only clerks and babus as the previous speakers had mentioned, but if we are to introduce new lines of studies, we have to have a Central University, If we are to do justice to our present generation and the future generations our University should be built on a strong footing and that also implies that it should have a strong financial back- up. 

        Just now it was mentioned about development of Fine Arts, Music, etc, which should be provided for the people. I quite agree to that but we need qualified experts and talented persons nor only for among us but especially from  outside even from a broad. Now, one thing we have to remember is this, that this University would have to be a special one not like other Universities all over India. Actually the University is meant for the people of Meghalaya and in view of the fact that a resolution is necessary to be passed by the Meghalaya Assembly, and that it is the concern specially for the people of Meghalaya, we can at once, take that the University is meant for us and that it is specially meant for the Hills people of Meghalaya. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is being referred to this Assembly because it is required that the resolution is to be passed by the two State legislatures.

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : That is his conclusion. 

Prof. A. Warjri : In spite of a Central University being set  up I see that later on there will be no bar for the  State to set up its own State University. As I have said ours is a special problem, ours is a special case which needs special consideration and therefore, there should be special safeguards. So, I would request the Government of Meghalaya to instruct some persons who are going to Delhi as its representatives to attend in the drafting of the Bill to see that some safeguards should be provided. For example, the adequate representation should be given in the University courts and senate for the people of Meghalaya. If qualified persons are not available, even if we take them from outside it should be on  contract basis. So far as administrative and ministerial level is concerned we should give to the local people especially the people of Meghalaya. They will have a big say in this matter. I would give another suggestion that after a period of 5 or 7 years the major control of that University should go to the State of Meghalaya and even more than that, after 5 or 7 years this Indira  Gandhi Hill University should be considered as a major University,  a State University and therefore, there should be no difficulty of a major University being a State University. Lastly, the Government of Meghalaya should send promising young boys and girls to prepare themselves to take over from persons who had been appointed in this University on contract basis so that these boys and girls will qualify themselves and take the place of those persons who had completed their term by that time. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : I support the Resolution. 

        (At this stage the Speaker left the Chamber and the Deputy  Speaker took the Chair).

Prof. A.  Warjri : So, this is my request to the Government. 

Shri B. B.  Shallam (Jowai S.T.) : I would like to give my unqualified support to the Resolution moved by the Chief Minister. As Prof. Warjri had said we would like to have a State University. But considering our economic condition, it will be difficult for us to have our own State University. So, I feel that we should welcome a Central University as decided by the Government of India. As far as my knowledge goes, there is no bar for a State to have its own University. In some other States of India there are Central Universities and as the same time they have State Universities. Therefore, my humble appeal to all hon. members is to support the Resolution as moved by the Chief Minister. With these few words I resume my seat. 

Prof. Peter G. Marbaniang (Laitumkhrah) : Mr. Deputy  Speaker, Sir, while supporting the Resolution moved by the Hon. Chief Minister, I feel I must agree with Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw when he said that we should divorce all political considerations on this issue. At the same time I should say that this consideration must be adopted to the needs of the dynamic modern age in  which we live. It must look to the future rather than the past. I feel it is a big task before us. It is true that a State University would be welcome by all of us. But considering that our State is in  great financial difficulties as pointed out by Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw because it is a new State- hardly a few months old. To establish a State University we will have to get finance- a big amount of it. Therefore, taking this point into consideration, we must admit that a Central University will be the best University for us at the present stage. Also, Sir, we have many other facilities by accepting the Central University - facilities like visiting Professors from other Universities not only here in India but also outside our country. Just like Universities in Delhi or the Hindu Banaras University they have every year visiting Professors and these Professors help very much in the advancement of learning.  Also, Sir, when we talk about a University, we have to talk about the University which will not only look after our distinctive features but also help our boys and girls to meet the challenge of the present age. We should develop not only Arts, not only music but we should also see that our young boys and girls get the best teaching in Science. I feel that the Central University will be very much helpful to us because we will have at the command of the University personnel from  all over India good in Science, Technology and in other facilities. I agree, of course, that we must have safeguards- safeguards in the drafting of the Bill.  This should be very special for our University, not a Central University like those in the rest of India. After all our State has come in a unique way. Though we have a small population only about 10 lakhs, we have a State of our own. I feel, therefore, that in the drafting of the Bill of this University, we should see that there are special safeguards to help our people, to help us to be able to participate, to be able to have control in the affairs of the University and also what we should do is that we should immediately chalk our programmes to train the few Professors that we have now in our Colleges.  We should see that (At this stage the Deputy Speaker vacated the Chair for the Speaker) facilities are offered to train them up so that when the University comes they will be some of the persons to run the University. I do not think that, as it is no, we have anybody among us in the State of Meghalaya, who is fit enough to hold any post in this University. Sir, therefore, I request the Government that this plan of this programme should be followed up immediately so that we will have our own people while starting the Central University. I feel I must express here that, if we have a State University at this stage, we may not be able to run it properly. We can see the signs in different States where they have State Universities and where there are students' unrests and also different problems and demands by the students and also State politics creeping inside the management of the University. All these, I feel, we will be able to eliminate if we have a Central University at the present. But in future with special safeguards given, we will be able to take over or to have as major say in the management of this University. 

        With these few words, Sir, I resume my seat. 

Mr. Speaker : Mr. Jormanick Syiem. 

Shri Jormanick Syiem : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also stand to support the resolution moved by the Hon'ble Chief Minister in the House today. As we have been blessed with the full State of Meghalaya we are fortunate that we are also going to have a University in this State which will be a real boon to our men and women promising scholars and researchers in future. It is a great boon to Meghalaya because the University is going to be located near about Shillong. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hope that Meghalaya will have a very big say in the administration of that University. It is true that we would like to have a University of our own. But with the meagre resources that we have I do not think we are in a position to run our own University and besides that the Central University has other advantages It will provide the necessary paraphernalia, equipments and the staff. We can also have the advantage of getting the best teachers and scholars even from outside We may also expect educationists because that University is not going to be just for Meghalaya but it will be for most of the North- Eastern region of India. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think we should not be over ambitious at the moment ; we should be prepared to accept what the Central Government is going to give us by starting a Central University for this region. As my previous speaker said, this University has got its own advantages over the State Universities which are at present in deficit. In so far as the proposed University is concerned the Central Government will see that the University functions in a proper way. There will be no dearth of funds, there will be no difficulty in getting the money required for the equipments and the members of the staff. I agree with the previous speaker that the Government should see that the interests of the people of Meghalaya are safeguarded if possible in the Bill itself. In any case their interests should also be safeguarded in giving them a proper place in the Senate and the University Court and in the administrative machinery of that University. As we are going to have the University in our own State. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in time we can get ready to take over the University which I believe the Central Government also will be prepared to hand over to the State when we are in a position to take it over. Till then, I feel we should be satisfied with what the Central Government is going to give us and let us train our young men and women, boys and girls to be prepared to take over the responsibility of running the University when we reach that stage when our State will be able to take over or start its own University. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, this House should pass a resolution for enabling the setting up of the Central University and the Parliament should be allowed to pass the Bills for the establishment of this Central University by whatever name we may call it. To have of this Central University by whatever name we may call it. To have a University in our own areas. I do not see any objection whether it is the Indira  Gandhi University or any other name. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I said before, I think the Central University which is going to be established in our areas will be a great boon to our people and I appeal to all hon. Member of this House to be unanimous on this question as the hon. Member from Mawhati said so as to enable the proposed Central University to function early probably from next July. with these few words Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support the resolution. 

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh (Pariong S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to participate in the discussion on the subject matter of today's business of the House. i.e., the  Central University. I for one and many of the hon. Members have taken part some time during the movement to get a Central University  in this eastern region of the country and today the resolution is before the House placed by the Chief Minister. It is necessary to have a Central University in our State. In fact, other States in India also have their own University which has been established for giving education and also to shape the type of education for the people of the State. There are also Central Universities in other States of  India, for example, in West Bengal and U.P. and these Universities have grown up there because of the fact that the advancement in education has been very high and the concentration of population is much greater in comparison with  this corner part of the country. Our State is a newly born State and the need to get a University of our own as somebody had said is very difficult because of financial position of the State. This Central University will be entirely maintained or financed by the Central Government; so it is really very helpful to our State and also to the other States in this north-eastern region. As some Members have expressed we, the hill people, have got our own language, customs, genius and a way of life and so on and so forth. So if at all we  are to march ahead with the entire nation and the entire people of India we have to shape our standard of education  by means of having our won Central University  which will be sponsored and financed by the Central  Government. I hope that the management or the Court of the University itself or the Senate of the University will prepare the curriculum of the University by taking all these factor into consideration to suit the general interest o our hill people. But one thing which I would like to say before I give my support to the resolution is that the Government should see that the Central Government will take into account the interest of our people before bringing a legislation  on the establishment of the University. Government should have to give more weight to the people of the State so that our men also should be there in the matter of drafting of the bill. We consider that provisions for representation in the management from the States of this N.E. Region should be included in the proposed bill. The prospect and prosperity of that University depend much on the proper planning and organising of the structure and framework of the whole institution. 

        Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to get a clarification of some kind of assurance from the Chief Minister or the Government that at least things should be for out favour and to the interest of the people of the State in the matter of appointment of professors, in selection and framing of the syllabus for the University and at least adequate representation should be made for our  State and from the neighbouring States like Manipur, Tripura, Arunachal and so on. If we will be able to get adequate representation in the management of  the University, I hope that the University will be run according to our needs and to the interest of the people of the State as a whole. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir,  I support the resolution moved by the  Chief Minister before the House.  

Shri P.R. Kyndiah (Jaiaw S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am happy to stand up today to support this resolution which I think is long over due. The question of having a University in the Hill areas has had a long history. In fact, it has taken almost a decade to come to such a stage. But there is a blessing in disguise because it had  taken 9 years, and these 9 years have two or three factors to be considered. Firstly, we are here to discuss as a full- fledged State Assembly. Secondly, in the passage of time for the last 9 years there has been tremendous change in technology and science in the whole world today. For, whatever University we can have or establish has to be in tune with the present age. Nine years time today is not a small time, it is a big gap of achievement having brought about a big change in the country today. 

        Now, Mr. Speaker, I am happy that the hon. Member from Mawhati has pleased that this is a common issue or rather has a common objective and should not be viewed from the political eye. I think I quire agree with him in that.  Therefore, I would like to be as dispassionate as possible in approaching this question.  The main question before us today is whether we are to give clearance to Parliament to bring forward a bill for the creation of the University. This matter has become to simple that we cannot have ay string attached to it and whatever we can observe or whatever suggestion that we can think of, has to be in the form of a request or suggestion and observations. Therefore, as I have said today since this question of having a University is long over due, we have to give our clearance in a spirit of unanimity as far as possible. Therefore, I was much encouraged  by what the hon. Member from Pariong had stated that it is very necessary to have a State University of our own. I realise that a State University of our own is important but as someone has suggested there is no bar for us to establish a State  University in course of time.  

Mr. Speaker : Definitely, there is no bar. 

Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah : The need for a Central University is very much pertinent and I would like to make suggestion in this matter, as I am fully aware that whatever discussions we have today will also go  in the form of proceedings to the Parliament. In that context I feel that the Central University has to be technology- bias, it  has also to be science -bias. We are today confronted with the problem of agricultural backwardness, and so whatever type of University education that we contemplate has to be in tune with the needs of today. The need today is to produce students who will be able to grapple with the problem of daily life.   

Mr. Speaker : Before the hon. Member would proceed further, may I give some guide- lines. In the first instance, nobody from amongst the hon. Members is against the Central University and the majority of them have said, provided in so far as policy matter is concerned that in running the University, the State will  have great say. This is a point which will have to be discussed and secondly to confine to the University Education only in the field of literature, in the field of Arts, and also in the field of humanity.  Thus the need of the University is always dynamic, in tune with the ages. We should not go into the details of it because this is the spirit of the University itself, as one of the hon. Members had just spoken that the proceedings of this House will be sent to the Members of the Parliament and also to the Ministry of Education for their scrutiny and thorough study.

Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah : Mr. Speaker, Sir, with due regard to your observation on the role of the University, I would like to disagree on your particular observation that the spirit of University is dynamic. No less than the great teacher and the great educationist Dr. Radhakrishnan had the occasions to ay that the universities in India today, tend to be and ivory tower rather than service centre that is my concern. It is in that context Mr. Speaker, Sir, that I was trying to make the observation to the effect that the role of the University has to be dynamically changed. Also because of the fact that it will not be the concern of only Meghalaya alone but other neighbouring States. Therefore, I feel that the type of University that we would like to have is to be discussed in this House, and as you said, the proceedings of  this House will be examined by the Education Ministry had also by the Members in the Parliament. My personal feeling, Mr. Speaker, Sir, in this respect, is only that the concept of education needs to be changed an din that changed the subject of technology has to be a living force and a dynamic force. This Central University is to be equipped with all sorts of the facilities to get our boys, young men and women to go for the technical lines. We cannot live in this static manner. We have to go ahead. Secondly Sir, it is my firm conviction that the present system of education should be re-organised and will have to be equipped with all the essential facilities like importing up- to date technical knowledge to the students. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in this connection, I also feel that the Central University is to be more or less biased with the technology and Science studies. So far as study of History, Arts and Humanity is concerned, I feel that these subjects should also be taken up. The State University which is going to be established is due course may specialise in Arts subjects. Then again, Sir. we should also have our own syllabus for many languages of the State and also the study of the tribal culture should be given an emphasis in our own University. In this regard, I would like to recollect what Dr. Radhakrishna  had said and which has struck me so greatly when he said the about Universities in India. That they should be opened to all scholars, researchers from all over the world and they should be properly and modernly equipped. These are my few observations, Mr.  Speaker, Sir. A part from that I would also like to say that since this Central University is to be located at Shillong it is very much important and also necessary for us to have a big say in the management and control of the affairs of the University. With these few words, I resume my seat. 

*Shri Hoover Hynniewta (Nongkhlaw S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I make no pretension of being an educationist. So,  Sir, I feel very much indebted to the hon. member from Mawhati who has made masterly exposition of the causes of the University education in the hill areas and to what the Member from Mawkhar has contributed towards this understanding of the various issues at stake. My humble way of thinking Sir, is about the crux of the matter as to whether this University will be managed by the Hill Representatives. If we are satisfied with what Prof. Majaw has said that for high academic qualifications we could send our children to Gauhati or to Calcutta Universities or to other universities in this country. But as I said earlier by virtue  of my humble way of thinking, we have to get a university of our own which would cater to the needs of our people ant to our cultural interest. The University, if I may use the words of our great Prime Minister when she said, "Universities should have deep roots in the very way of life, in the very way of culture and in they very language of the State". Therefore, to m y mind, the most fundamental question is that whether the hills people be they form the State of Meghalaya, be they form  the State of Meghalaya, be they from Mikir Hills, be they from Mizo Hills or from Arunachal Pradesh, must have a say as to the shape of the University education, that our State of Meghalaya will take over the control and supervision from the Central Government, within a very short span of time. But since it is admitted to accept the line of approach on humility, I am drawing your kind attention to Article 252 clause, (2) which says like this 'Any Act so passed by Parliament may  be amended or repealed by an Act of Parliament passed or adopted in like  manner but shall not as respects any State to which if applies be amended or repealed by an act of the Legislature of that State. So, in my humble  way of understanding, there is the possibility of our State Government's taking over the Central University but at the same time, I must congratulate the drafter of this Resolution because in handing over this legislative item to the Parliament, they have put certain limits within which the Parliament makes laws allowing us also at the same time to start a University of our own. Therefore, this Assembly, here resolved to have set ups the Central University for the North Eastern Region of India. 

        It is not a wholesale transfer of the right or legislation with regard to University education to Parliament.  Therefore, enough safeguard has been made. But I may remind also the members of this House,  Sir, that it is not a matter of joke to have a University of our own. If mere wishing can fetch us a University, I think I wish as hard as anybody in this House that we should have a  State University at this very moment. But Sir, it is the question of finance, the most dangerous rock at which most of our hopes and ambitions used to be shipwrecked. So I do not know how long it would take before the financial resources of the State will allow us to embark upon the most desirable course of having a University of our own. But I do not see any hope in the foreseeable future when we shall have that financial strength which will be in tune with or determination and wish. Therefore, at the very outset when we are thinking of the Central University, it is our bounded duty to demand the  Central Government that we should have not only technology and science biased education but we must have also a hillman biased education. As I said Sir, at the very beginning I do not make any pretension of being an educationists but by birth, I have a fundamental pretension of being a tribal. So the question of being a tribal is  not so much of blood but it is more of thinking. Although, I think myself a tribal and I have also some blood to back up my thinking but then I will always be a hillman. For being a hillman, I am not ashamed of my culture, as I am not ashamed of my language, of my origin and I will always be happy as a hillman. I hope, as I have said yesterday, and I earnestly and fervently pray that this University will re- enforce this feeling of a hillman in our boys and girls for generations to come. I believe, Sir, everyone in this House will realise the danger that poses now- a -days is very much influenced by what is happening in Hollywood, America and Europe and if they are  very honest with us if wee ask them- suppose you are the victim of the law of Karma, where would you like to be  born? I am afraid Sir, that a majority of them would like to be born in Hollywood. (Laughter). So Sir, I feel with all the emphasis I have at y command that we have a right to expect of the Central University to cater to the basis fundamental requirements of the hillman and since the Central Government have given political and constitutional recognition of our rights of existence as a political unit in  India, may I hope Sir, that through this Central University they will given us the right to function to exist as hillman. I will continue to play the role of adding diversity to the great unity of our country.

Mr. Speaker : Mr. Maham Singh. 

Shri Maham Singh (Mawprem) : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, I also want to support this Resolution. I want to add, while supporting the Resolution, that we have to take into consideration the time factor. Time factor of starting a University as soon as possible is very important at present. We have got a State of our own, and as I have earlier said, it ye be very difficult for us to obtain admission for all our students in the Universities outside our State. A part from that we find at present all the other Universities in India as far as practicable are switching over to their own regional languages which becomes a great handicap for our  students to study in those Universities. Sir, in this resolution, we find that this University is contemplated because it had been the demand of the representatives of the hill areas of the North- Eastern India. Actually, according to the Resolution, it is in response to their demand that the Government of India have decided to set up this University. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very happy that this University primarily is meant for all the hills people of the North - Eastern India. We want to have a closer understanding, with the other people of the hill areas of our region, we want to live together with them, we want to know each other's problems and difficulties, we want to help each other in order to be able to bring about a rapid development in the hill areas in the eastern frontier of India. Mr. Speaker, Sir, apart from having a closer understanding with these people by having this University, I feel that it is good for us because we will be able to have a broader outlook. This University will also have a wider sphere to operate and in education, I think we must have a broad outlook.

        Now it is also contained in the Resolution that the Central University will be set up to cater to the needs of the people of the hill areas of the North Eastern India. Many suggestion have been put forward by the hon. m embers as to who will have the say in this University and suggestions have been made that this University should look first to the interests of the hill people of the North- Eastern India. Now, Sir, according to the Resolution this University is to cater to the needs of the hills people of these areas. I have no doubt that the Government of India which has always been sympathetic to the minorities and especially the hills people that it will not go against the spirit of the Resolution and I am fully convinced that  in setting up the University of this areas, it will surely and primarily look into the interests of  these people and will also try as much as possible to cater first to the needs of the hills people of these areas. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I have said earlier the time factor is very essential because we and the other hill people of our region are suffering at present under the same difficulties, in going to he other Universities of India.  The most important difficulty is the language because as far as practicable the other Universities are trying to switch over to their own regional languages. So Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will again lay stress that this University should be set up as soon as possible. If Government finds that  it will take time for setting up of this University, then Government should take steps to set up a University of its own as soon as possible. With regard to the site I believe that the site will be in Shillong or at least within Meghalaya State. 

Mr. Speaker : May I request the Chief Minister to reply to some points raised by the hon. Members?

*Capt. A. Williamson  A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, though I am not feeling well yet since some of the hon. Members have raised some important points while supporting this resolution and as suggested by you, Sir, I am giving some indications with regard to the setting up of the Hill University for catering to the needs of the North- Eastern India.  As my colleague has already informed the House in regard to this resolution, I am not going  to read any more while supporting the resolution. In having a University of our own, the people of this State or the North Eastern Region as a whole should have as say  in this subject and I entirely agree with them. In course of the discussion in this House, information has been given that we will be a partner in all matters with regard to the factors to be introduced to this University and we will have to discuss bin detail the various suggestions given by the hon. Members and all their suggestions will be taken into account. In fact, even in drafting the Bill for setting up of this University we have been asked by the Government of India to send a representative to the meeting which will be held at the end of this month but the nominee of our Government, that is, as I may inform the House, the Principal of St. Anthony's  College, Fr A. Joseph, has been nominated to represent the  Government of Meghalaya and Fr. Joseph has regretted his inability to attend the meeting. So I have request the Minister of State for Education to postpone it, but I have heard it will be held some time between 9th and 10th of this month. I am also going to Delhi at that time along with my colleague and it will be possible for us to discuss many things  relating to this University as we have already advised Fr. Joseph who is going to represent us in the drafting of the Bill. It is the desire of the House that the Government of Meghalaya will take adequate measures to look into this matter. Well, I am not an educationist to deal with whatever faculties that are to be introduced in this new University. My opinion is that it should meet specially the needs of all the hill people of this State. As such, the suggestions put forward by the hon. Members will have their place. Under this University, schools of technology and engineering should be there to concentrate on chemical engineering with special reference to forest products and paper. This is also the thinking of the Minister of  State for Education and also the students who read science may take up and study geology and mineralogy, etc. The schools having science subjects will enable students studying sconce to concentrate on horticulture, forestry and agriculture and the schools having subjects like social science may enable them to take up the subject of study in social anthropology and particularly dialogues including folk-lore. This particular thinking is exhaustive but the Government's intention is that in the first instance, they are going to go in for the Bill to enable the Government of India to go ahead with the task of setting up of a Hill University. The details will be worked out and there is a proposal that as early as possible, an officer should be appointed to be attached to the Ministry of Education, Government of India and I have been asked to find our a suitable man to fill up the post of Vice- Chancellor of this University and I must express that I have been trying to find out such a suitable man in consultation with my colleagues as to whom to recommend to fill up that post. I am grateful to my colleagues who are in the Education Department who have given me suggestions in this connection. The person to fill up this post may be from our country or from another part of the country, who has got knowledge of history. I will just give an indication that we will be taken into confidence in running this University and I am sure that is the desire of the House as a whole.          

Shri Maham Singh : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, if the Government of India has considered the need in this region for a separate Hill State for our hill people, I have no doubt they will share the responsibilities in the matter of running this University which will be valuable for us. 

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : Mr.  Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member from Mawprem has said. 

Mr.  Speaker : May I know from the Chief Minister how many minutes more you require? May I have the opinion of the House that we will continue this morning till the Chief Minister finished his reply?

(Voices - 'yes')

Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : The hon. Member from Mawprem suggested that the time factor is essential for this University  to be set up and as hon. Members may recall the announcement of the then Minister of Education. Mr. S. Ray, who is now  Chief Minister of West Bengal, that this University will start functioning from the next academic year and that is from July and with regard to the location also Mr. Maham Singh has suggested that is should be in Meghalaya near Shillong, we will find out a suitable place for it. 

        In course of the discussion there is a suggestion that a small committee consisting of the  Secretary, University Grants Commission, the Adviser, University Education and the representatives from the Government of Meghalaya may be set up to work out details about setting up of this University. Therefore, I would like to impress upon all the Members of the House that there are enough indications that this particular State will have adequate say in all these matters and I would like to remove any apprehension that our State or Government will have no say in the matter. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am happy that all the hon. Members are supporting the resolution for setting up a University and, I am sure, this University will go a long way to meet the special requirements of the State of Meghalaya and those of other  States in the North -Eastern Region.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw (Mawhati S.T.) : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, in view of the assurance given by the Chief Minister I would like to refer to the remarks made by Mr. Hynniewta. May I know from the Chief Minister whether any particular site has been selected?

Mr. Speaker : The site has yet to be selected. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the assurance given by the Chief Minister on this and in view of the suggestions put forward by us, we of the United Independent Party are prepared to support the resolution. 

(Applause from all sides of the House)

Mr. Speaker : Even after the hon. Members have supported the resolution, yet I have to put the resolution in the form of a question.  The question is that whereas in response to the demand of the Representatives in Parliament of the Hill  areas of North East India, the Government of India have decided to set up a central University to cater to the needs of the people of thee Hills Areas of North - Eastern India; and it is expedient that necessary legislation in this regard is passed by Parliament and ; 

        Whereas the subject "Education including Universities" fall within Entry 11 of List II State List of the Seventh Schedule to the Constitution of India and, as such a resolution is necessary by Legislatures of two or more states as provided in Clause (i) of Article 252 of the Constitution of India to empower Parliament to legislate on this subject, and 

        Whereas the Legislative Assembly of Assam has already passed such a resolution;

        Now, therefore, this Assembly hereby resolves that for setting up on a Central University for the North-Eastern Region of India the Parliament may pass the requisite legislation. 

(The resolution was adopted)

Mr. Speaker : The  House stands adjourned till 5 minutes past two in the afternoon. 

        The Assembly met at 2.05. p.m., with the Speaker in the Chair.

Prevention of Disqualification (Members of the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya) Bill, 1972. 

Mr. Speaker : On behalf of the Chief Minister, may I request the Finance Minister to move that the Prevention of Disqualification (Members of the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya) (Amendment Bill), 1972, be taken into consideration.

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) : I beg to move that the Prevention of Disqualification (Members of  the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya) (Amendment) Bill, 1972, be taken into consideration. 

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. But I have received the amendment on the schedule from the hon. Member Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang. May I request the hon. Member to move the amendment. 

*Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang (Nongpoh S.T.) : I beg to  move that in item 5 of the Schedule of the Bills, after the words "Educational Institutions" at the end the "full stop" shall be deleted and the words "and the office of a full time Professor, Lecturer, Instructor of Teacher in Government aided educational institutions" shall be added thereafter. 

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, in this regard we are grateful that the Bill is given privileges to the Professors, Lecturers, Instructors and Teachers serving in Government aided educational institutions; whereas I do not see any reason  why people serving in educational institutions should be deprived of the right of contesting in the elections. As it appears the Government are restricting the people serving in these institutions. Mr. Speaker,  Sir, in my opinion the insertion of the amendment is essential in the Bill. 

Mr. Speaker : Will Finance Minister reply ?

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) : This amendment is outside the scope of this Bill. We are only concerned with disqualifications of certain persons from standing in the elections. The amendment relates to full-time Professors, Lecturers, Instructors and Teachers serving in Government aided institutions. These persons are allowed by Article 191 of the  Constitution, only those otherwise disqualified by the Constitution. In fact, this Bills seeks to remove these disqualifications. These persons are not disqualified by the Constitution and by Parliament or Legislatures. the question of removal of these disqualifications does not arise and this amendment is outside the scope of this Bill. 

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang : This amendment is moved on the practical field. That some teachers serving in the Government aided schools have to resign or give up their jobs for contesting the elections. 

Mr. Speaker : May I draw the attention of the hon. Member that the question raised by him is irrelevant in so far as full- time Professors, Instructors and Teachers in aided Colleges and High Schools are concerned.  They are not being disqualified by this Bill even if it is passed into an Act. Perhaps they have been prevented from contesting the elections  by departmental rules and not by the Act. I  do not understand whether the hon. Member understands that this particular amendment is irrelevant in so far as this Bill is concerned. Are you willing to withdraw your amendment, Mr. Lapang?

Shri Hoover Hynniewta (Nongkhlaw S.T.) : There is no more scope for a Member to withdraw. It is outside the scope of this Bill and logical steps are necessary to rule it out of order. 

Mr. Speaker : I asked the hon. Member to withdraw other wise every thing said in the amendment is out of order. 

        As there is no other amendment to this Bills I now put the question before the House. 

        The question is that Clause (2) and Clause (3) of the Prevention of Disqualification (Members of the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya, Bill, 1972, do form part of the Bill. 

(After a pause) 

        The motion is adopted. Clauses (2) and (3) do form part of the Bill. 

        I now put the question before the House. That the Scheduled do form part of the Bill. 

(After a pause) 

        The motion is adopted. The Scheduled do form part of the Bill. 

        Now the third question is that Clause (1), the Enacting Formula the Preamble and the Title of the Bill do stand part of the Bill. 

        The motion is carried. Clause (1), he Enacting Formula the Preamble and the Title of the Bill do stand part of the Bill. 

        I now request the Chief Minister to move that the Prevention of  Disqualification (Members of the Legislative assembly of Meghalaya) Bill, 1972, be passed. 

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : My colleague will move it. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Prevention of Disqualification (Members of the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya) Bill, 1972, as amended  be passed. The motion is carried.  The Bill is passed. 

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I put the question before the House. The question is that the Prevention of Disqualification (Member of the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya) Bill, 1972, as amended be passed. The motion is carried. The Bill is passed.

        Now let us come to item No.3. Before I request the Finance Minister to move that the Meghalaya (Ministers' Salaries and Allowances) Bill, 1972, be taken into consideration. Let me read a message from the Governor.

"RAJ BHAVAN,

Shillong.

The 4th March, 1972.

        In exercise of the powers conferred by Clause (3) of Article 207 of the Constitution of India, I , Braj Kumar Nehru, Governor of Meghalaya, hereby recommend to the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly, the consideration of the Meghalaya (Ministers' Salaries and Allowances) Bill, 1972. 

B.K. NEHRU

Governor of Meghalaya".

The Meghalaya (Minister's Salaries and Allowances) Bill, 1972. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Finance Minister) : Sir, I beg to move that the Meghalaya (Ministers' Salaries and Allowances) Bill, 1972, be taken into consideration. 

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now let me put the question before. The question is that the House, the Meghalaya (Minister's Salaries and Allowances) Bill, 1972, be taken into consideration.  The Motion is carried. 

        Now let us come to the consideration clause by clause. I have received only one amendment to Clause (2) from Mr. D.D. Lapang Mr. Lapang are you moving your amendment? 

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang : Mr. Speaker, Sir with your kind permission, I beg to move that in item (b) of  Clause 2 of the Bill, for the words "rupees one thousand two hundred and fifty" the words "rupees one thousand one hundred and seventy- five" shall be substituted. Sir, in this regard, I would like to say that I do not grudge the Hon'ble Ministers getting a pay of  Rs. 1250 per mensem. But it is not clear to me and what I fail to understand is that whereas the pay of the Chief Minister's is Rs. 1,500 per mensem the ratio being Rs. 250 between the Chief Minister's pay and the Cabinet Minister's pay. Whereas the pay of the Minister of State is Rs. 850, the difference between the pay of the Minister of State and that of the  Cabinet Minister is Rs. 400. I do not understand on what basis such a difference took place while fixing the salaries of the chief Minister, the Cabinet Ministers and the Ministers of State. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the fact that this Bill does not meet proper justice in regard to the ration between these three categories of pay, I do not see whey this amendment should not be inserted in the Bill.

*Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah : Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I rise to oppose the amendment moved by the hon. Member from Nongpoh, I would only like to say that it appears from his own remarks that it is not his intention to grudge the Ministers getting Rs.1250 per mensem. My point which I would like to put before the House is that the cut contemplated is only Rs. 75 from Rs. 1250 to Rs.1175 p.m which comes to about 6 per cent only. It is a very small percentage indeed. From the fact that the cut is only 75 rupees. It goes to how that the intention of the mover of the amendment is only a nominal cut and possibly as he has just said, it is only on the basis of ratio. But I must submit that the salaries that have been fixed for our Ministers  are more or less on the pattern that have been fixed in  Gujarat and Nagaland where the ration between the Minister, and the Speaker is the same. Therefore, if it is only on the ratio element, I do not think there is much justification to reduce the salary from Rs. 1250 to Rs. 1175. I would have agreed if the amount had been if a substantial nature. Then we would have gone into the full length of the discussion of the whole case. Therefore, to my mind, I feel that status quo is to be maintained. This is tune with what has been done in the previous Assembly and also in tune with what is being done in other States. Sir, these are my views which I have before the House. 

*Shri Blooming Shallam (Jowai S.T.) : Sir, I rises to oppose the amendment because I do  not see any reason whatsoever in moving this amendment.  So, my humble request to the hon. Member who has moved the amendment to please withdraw it because it does not give much sense to make such an amendment. 

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Sir, I rise to support the amendment in view of the fact that what the hon. Member, Mr. Lapang is intending to do is to rationalise the scale and he had reason for rationalise the scale and he had reason  for rationalisation of the scale. The difference between the salary of the  Chief Minister and that of the Minister of State is Rs. 650 per mensem. Mr. Lapang gave Rs. 325 in both the gaps so that between the Chief Minister's salary and that of the Cabinet Minister the difference would be Rs.325 and the difference between that of the Cabinet Minister and the Minister of State in respect of salary would also be Rs. 325. These are the reasons for rationalisation moved by the hon. Member from Nongpoh.

Mr. Speaker : Will Minister, Finance reply ?

*Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh, (Minister,  Finance) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the proposed amendment, whatever may be the reason, is not enough for acceptance by this House. If the hon. Member will look to the scales of pay of Ministers, Ministers of State,  Speaker,  Deputy Speaker, and Members and so on in other States  and also officers of various departments, he will find that there is no such thing or that sort of rationalisation. at the same  time, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would submit that as the  two Members have suggested that we maintain the status quo because any modification in any way will have its effect, we will have to delete almost in every part. Therefore, I would request and appeal to the hon. Member not to insist on this amendment. Let us wait till we have more experience of our difficulties, our duties and our functions and our rights. Perhaps at some other time this House may have an occasion to modify, if necessity arises. For the present I would request that we be allowed to maintain the status quo as promulgated more than two  months ago. 

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang : Of course, we do not mind. That little amount is negligible. This should not be done now. The Finance Minister has given the clarification that the status quo will be maintained and that should be done for a few months. I see that it is rather reasonable. So I withdraw the amendment proposed by me. 

Mr. Speaker : Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the amendment?

(Voices... yes, yes)

        The amendment is with leave of the House withdrawn. 

        So I put the question

        The question is that  Clause 2 do form part of the Bill. 

(The motion was adopted).

        Clause 2 do form part of the Bill. 

        There are no amendments to Clauses 3 and 4.  So I put the question before the House. The question is  that Clauses 3 and 4 do form part of the Bill.

    (The motion was adopted).

        Clauses 3 and 4 do form part of the Bill. 

        Now, in Clause 5, there is one amendment which I have received from Prof. Majaw. Will the hon. Member move the amendment ?

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr.  Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following amendment. That in Clause 5 in place of the words "The Government may provide" appearing in the first line, the words "The Government shall provide" shall be substituted. Now my reason for justifying this substitution is to remove a very humorous contradiction which I will try to explain as briefly as possible. If you kindly look to Clause 5, which reads as follows - "The Government may provide for the use of the Chief Minister, other Ministers or Ministers of State a suitable conveyance etc." Now the word "may provide". Let us take  the cases of Government not providing, since the work used is "may". It may provide or may not provide. Suppose, we take a case of Government not providing a vehicle to the  Chief Minister and then the  Chief Minister resigns. He did not get the car from the Government. But now, according to Clause 7, I hope the Hon'ble Ministers are listening to my argument. According to Clause 5, suppose we take a case of a car having been provided to the Chief Minister and then the Chief Minister resigns and he is no longer in officer for a certain period, then he did not get a car from the Government. But in Clause 7, the Chief Minister, other Ministers or Ministers of State shall continue to be entitled to the privilege of the use of the free furnished residence to be entitled to the privilege of the use of the free furnished residence and Government conveyance on ceasing to hold the office for a period not exceeding one month. Although he did not get a car, he can immediately demand a car for one month and the Chief Minister shall continue to be entitled to the privilege of a free furnished residence and the same will apply to other Ministers as well. If they have not been given a car, the moment they resign, they can demand a car. So, to remove this inconsistency, I have suggested an amendment. On the other hand, suppose, there is an objection to my amendment that "The Government shall provide" in Clause 5, it will be in contradiction to the proviso. The proviso governs that clause " The Government shall provide" etc. But if the word "shall" is inserted, there will be no contradiction between the main clause and the proviso and this is the reason why I have suggested substitution by the word "shall".

Mr. Speaker : Minister, Finance to reply. 

*Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) : Sir, the hon. Member had suggested this amendment, as he said to avoid a humorous anomaly. As hills people are said to have a sense of good humour, if it is just a humorous anomaly, perhaps we will not deny this humour for a period of one month. However, as the language goes, the proposed amendment is nor warranted here. The word "may" should be there because there is likely and eventuality that the Chief Minister or a Minister may choose to maintain his own car. So the word "shall" will be anomalous. In case the Minster does not choose to maintain his own car, then it becomes incumbent of the Government to provide a car. Then under clause 7, the chief Minister, other Ministers or Ministers of State shall continue to be entitled to the privilege of the use of the free furnished residence and Government conveyance on ceasing to hold office on such and such period nor exceeding one month subject to the condition prescribed. So the word "shall" here is mandatory that is, it should be there and it should not leave any distinction, to deny or give the privilege of using a furnished house. The Government car is being provided under the provision of clause 5.  This word "continue" means after he has been given a car. Under clause 5, when the Minister has been given or provided  with a car, he shall continue to be entitled for its use. It refers that a particular Minister has his own choice whether he should be provided with furnished residence or a conveyances by the Government. Therefore the words "shall continue" mean that he has already got a car and shall continue to use it and not that he shall have it. Therefore, I would request the hon. Member to withdraw the amendment which is not very necessary and at the same time that will create more confusion.  

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, both the arguments of the Minister do not hold good for certain reasons. In the first case probably he failed to listen to the arguments I had given. For the use of the word "shall" the Government shall provide a mandatory clause. There is no contradiction if the word "shall" is used there if the proviso governs "shall" also. In clause 7, the word "continue" carries two meanings. It means "shall continue" to entitle in the choice of right to have and it means also the choice to continue to have physically in possession of the car. I submit that the meaning of the word "continue" here is to continue to entitle to a right. 

*Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the word "shall" that the hon. Member from Mawhati proposed to introduce there relates more or less to the relevant proviso provided of the Minister chooses and again the word "may" has to be put in the proviso,  Therefore if we use the word "shall" this proviso will become meaningless and the Minister will have the option to use his own car. It is only because of that proviso the word "may" is used to give room for the Minister to use his own car. It directly relates to the proviso of clause 5. In any case the word "may" should not be changed to the word "shall" and I request the hon. Member to withdraw the amendment.  

*Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, I entirely agree with the Finance Minister that regardless of the existence of the word "shall" or the word "may", the meaning will be more or less the same. But what I fail to understand Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the argument  put forward by the Finance Minister that if the word "shall" is included in the clause then it will be inconsistent with the proviso. This "to my mind" is a queer argument and in order to illustrate substantially my point Mr. Speaker, Sir, you may go to Articles of the Constitution when the word "shall" has been used in substantive clause and subsequent proviso has caused restriction to the right or provision of the main clause. Now I draw your attention Mr. Speaker,  Sir, to Article 148 clause (3) which says "the salary and other condition" of service of the Comptroller and Auditor General  shall be such as may be determined shall be as specified in the Second Schedule. Provided that neither the salary of the Comptroller and  Auditor General nor his rights in respect of leave of absence, pension or age of retirement shall be varied to his advantage after his appointment". Here the word "shall" is being limited by the proviso. So it is not very relevant point at issue. Therefore the vital question is that when the word "shall " is used the proviso cannot be incorporated in that clause and it will be a sad commentary on the legislative ability of the Members of this House. 

*Shri Edwinson Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) : It is there in the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business that even after the Minister has given a reply we can make a discussion. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta (Nongkhlaw S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is too late now. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member from Nongkhlaw has quoted Article 148, clause 3. "The salary and other conditions of service of the Comptroller and Auditor General shall be such as  may be determined by Parliament by Law and until they are so determined shall be as specified in the Second Schedule". The word "shall" be determined by law of the proviso is independent of the word "shall" there. "Provided that neither the salary of the Comptroller and  Auditor General nor his rights in respect of leave of absence, pension or age of retirement shall be varied to his disadvantage after his appointment. The word "shall" here is independent of the word "shall" there. It is not linked with the proviso. Here in clause 5 of the proviso the relevant word "may" relates directly to the proviso that a Minister may use Government car. The word "shall relates directly to the proviso that it should be determined according to law or according to schedule that his pay will be Rs.1,000 or shall be varied to his advantage, from Rs.1,000 may be increased to Rs. 2,000. 

        But it is mandatory that no variation should be to his disadvantage. So the word "shall" is quite independent of the word "shall" in the general  clause. In any case again to put the word "shall" there then the proviso shall have to introduce the word "shall" provided if a Minister chooses to maintain his own car, shall not be entitled, but shall be entitled to a conveyance allowances of rupees three hundred per mensem." Otherwise he will use both the car and the allowance. Therefore, it is not necessary to introduce the word "shall" here, as the word may be left to the discretion of the Government and the good sense of the Ministers and the persons concerned. I, therefore request the hon. Member to withdraw the amendment. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the explanation and the most earnest plea made by the Finance Minister that every one should show good sense, but as both good sense and humour go together, I withdraw my amendment. 

Mr. Speaker : Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his amendment?

(Voices- yes, yes)

        The amendment is by leave of the House withdrawn, I put the question before the House. The question is that clause 5 do form part of the Bill. 

        The motion is adopted, clause 5 do form part of the Bill. 

        There are no amendments to clauses 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. I put the question before the House that clauses 6 to 11 do form part of the Bill. 

        The question is carried. Clauses 6 to 11 do form part of the Bill. 

        I put another question that Clauses 1, the Enacting Formula, Preamble and the Title of the Bill do form part of the Bill.

        The motion is adopted. Clauses I , the Enacting Formula, the Preamble and the Title do form part of the Bill. 

        May I request the Finance Minister to move that the Meghalaya (Ministers' Salaries and Allowances) Bill, 1972, be passed?

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Meghalaya (Ministers' Salaries and Allowances) Bill, 1972 be passed. 

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved.  The question is that the Meghalaya (Ministers' Salaries and Allowances) Bill, 1972, be passed. The motion is adopted and the Bill is passed. 

        Before we go to  the next item of today's list of business, I would like to explain to the House that is has been a convention that in order not to embarrass the Members present here and since the bill to be introduced relates both to the Speaker and  Deputy Speaker, I would request Mr. Kyndiah' Chairman to take the Chair. 

        (Mr. Chairman in the Chair) 

Mr. Chairman : Before we go to item 4, I would like to read a message from the Governor. 

RAJ BHAVAN 

Shillong

The 24th March, 1972. 

        In exercise of the powers conferred by clause (3) of Article 207 of the  Constitution of India, I, Braj Kumar Nehru, Governor of Meghalaya, herby recommend to the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly the consideration of the Meghalaya (Speaker's and Deputy Speaker' Salaries and Allowances) Bill, 1972. 

Sd/- BRAJ KUMAR NEHRU 

Governor of Meghalaya."

        I now request the Finance Minister to move that the Meghalaya (Speaker's and Deputy Speaker' Salaries and Allowances) Bill, 1972, by taken into consideration. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) : Mr. Chairman,  Sir, I beg leave to move that the Meghalaya (Speaker's and Deputy Speaker' Salaries and Allowances) Bill, 1972 be taken  into consideration. 

Mr.  Chairman : Motion moved. 

        Now I put the question before the House. The question is that the Meghalaya (Speaker's and Deputy Speaker' Salaries and Allowances) Bill, 1972, be taken into consideration. 

        There is an amendment to clause 2 to be moved by Mr. D. Dethwelson Lapang.

*Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang : Mr. Chairman, Sir, with your kind permission, I beg to  move that in clause 2 of the Bill for the words "rupees one thousand two hundred and fifty" appearing in the third line, the words "rupees eight hundred and fifty" appearing  in the fourth and the fifth line, the words "one thousand" shall be substituted. In this regard, Mr. Chairman, Sir, in my opinion, the office of the Speaker is the highest authority in the House and he commands the respect and upholds the dignity of the whole House. Therefore, I feel that there should be a differential treatment to him by not leveling him with the Ministers of the  State, as far as salary is concerned. As far as salary of the Speaker is concerned, his salary should not be made equal to that of the Ministers at Rs. 1250 and the Deputy  Speaker, equal to that of the Minister of State at Rs. 850. To be in consonance with the dignity and authority of the House, the salary of the Speaker and the Deputy Speaker should be revised and made higher than that of the Ministers and Ministers of  State respectively. I, therefore do not see any reason why this amendment should not be inserted in the Bill. 

*Prof Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Chairman, Sir, I rise to support the amendment and I would make one or two observations. First of all although the Speaker has been given the status or salary of a Cabinet Minister with some allowances, he is unable to utilise this allowance as the Minister can. For example, when a Minister has to tour a great deal and go around a lot, the Speaker may not of course, tour a lot because the exigencies of his duties do not carry more places of his touring like that of the Minister. But here in this House, the  Speaker is a person even higher than the Chief Minister and he has the power to name anybody : he has the power to throw out even the Chief Minister (laughter) according to the Rules of Procedure and  Conduct of Business here in the House and so in keeping with the dignity of his very high office, I would support this amendment that the salary of the Speaker should be Rs. 1,500 p.m. and if that is accepted, then proportionately the salary of the Deputy Speaker should be realised also to Rs. 1,000 p.m.

*Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) : Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to enter into a liberal reasoning that has been advanced by the hon. Member from Nongpoh and Mawhati. I think it will be sufficient to make the mover withdraw on this simple plea that it has been a pattern adopted though out this country in respect of pay and allowances for the Speaker of the House either in Assembly or Parliament. So far as the salary of the Minister is concerned, it cannot be changed here as I have said and so we are not to wait this and when occasion arises the rules should be modified altogether so that we will fall in line with other States in the country as a whole. So in this plea of establishing a pattern it is not possible for our States which is two months old only without having any experience to bring in this change that is really to be introduced all over the country. I would plead again that the mover may kindly withdraw his amendment for the present. Now that we have got more time to discuss whether this State should take a lead in this or that aspect, we are very much dependent on the normal expenditures, which are very much dependent on the Centre and as our resources are very limited, are we to take the lead in the direction of increasing our expenditure rather than increasing our income? This may not look good at all at this stage so soon and so I would suggest that we should fall in line with the established pattern for some time. if the hon. Members are very serious after considering all these aspects that we should take a lead in this direction or other, we may have more consultation before we bring it to this House. I would, therefore, request again at this juncture that we should accept this pattern for the present.

Mr. Chairman : In this very important matter it is expected of us that we should come to a certain conclusion unanimously and without much controversy that is befitting to legislators. The suggestions given by the Finance Minister to have consultations before taking this matter to this House are valuable. How can we discuss unless we are getting the opinion of the mover who just likes to make his observation with out taking into consideration the importance of keeping the dignity of the House. So I just like to pass this observation. 

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang (Nongpoh S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of these assurances given by the Hon'ble Finance Minister, I withdraw my amendment. 

        The amendment is with leave of the House withdrawn. 

Mr. Chairman : Has the mover leave of the House to withdraw the amendment? (Voices : yes, yes) Now I take Clauses 2, 3, and 4 and I put the question before the House. The question is that Clauses 2, 3 and 4 do form part of the Bill. 

         The motion is adopted, Clauses 2,3 and 4 do form part of the Bill. 

         I Now request Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw to move his amendment to Clause 5. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Chairman, Sir, it was with a depth of earnestness that the Finance Minister's request has stretched to this particular Bill also that I, on he same ground, withdraw my amendment. (Laughter).

        The amendment is with leave of the House withdrawn. 

Mr. Chairman : Has the mover the leave of the House to withdraw the amendment? (Voices : yes) Now I take Clauses 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 and I put the question before the House. The question is that Clauses 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11, do form part of the Bill.

        (The motion was adopted)

        So Clauses 5,6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 do now form part of the Bill. 

Mr. Chairman : I put the question that Clause I, the Enacting Formula, the Preamble and the Title do form part of the Bill. 

        The motion is adopted. So Clauses I, the Enacting Formula, the Preamble and the Title do form part of the Bill. 

        Now I request the Finance Minister to move that the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya (Speaker's and Deputy Speaker's Salaries and Allowances) Bill 19723, be passed. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) : Mr.  Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya (Speaker's and Deputy Speaker's Salaries and Allowances) Bill 19723, be passed. 

        (At this stage, Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah vacated the Chair for the Speaker).

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. The question is that the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya (Speaker's and Deputy Speaker's Salaries and Allowances) Bill 19723, be passed. The motion is adopted.  The Bill is passed. 

        Let us come to item No. 5 of today's List of Business. Before I request the Finance Minister to move that the Bill be taken into consideration, let me read the message from the Governor :

        "In exercise of the powers conferred by clause (3) of Article 207 of the Constitution of India, I , Braj Kumar Nehru, Governor of Meghalaya, hereby recommend to the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya the consideration of the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya (Members Salaries and  Allowances) Bill, 1972. 

RAJ BHAVAN , 

BRAJ KUMAR NEHRU, 

Shillong :

Governor of Meghalaya."

The 24th March, 1972. 

        Now let me request the Finance Minister to move that the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya (Members Salaries and Allowances) Bill, 1972, be taken into consideration. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya (Members Salaries and  Allowances) Bill, 1972, be taken into consideration. 

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. As there is no amendment to clause 2, may I put the question before the House that Clause 2 will form part of the Bill. The question is that Clause 2 do form part of the Bill.  The motion is adopted. Clause 2 do form part of the Bill. 

        Now Clause 3.  There is one amendment  to be move by Prof. Majaw. Will the hon. Member move the amendment?

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, we do not know if it will be possible for us to take part in this Bill in view of what you have graciously done while discussing your salary......(Laughter).

Mr. Speaker : The only difference is that you can very well participate but the Speaker cannot participate. 

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I fully realise that. I beg to move that in Clause 3 of the Bill, for the words, "rupees three hundred and fifty" appearing in the third line, the words 'rupees five hundred" shall be substituted. Mr. Speaker,  Sir, I have got two or three arguments in favour of this amendment. Although it may seem that we are trying to appropriate or misappropriate the financial resources of the country but since all of us have been elected to this House with a solemn promise given to the public that we shall work very hard of each one of them, the poorest, the most naked, the most illiterate of them and so on.  This is a new State where somewhere a beginning must take place. I have thought it wise to propose a slight increase of Rs. 150 in the salary of Rs. 350 is not in keeping with the dignity of the Members of the Legislative Assembly and if we are to look from a pecuniary point of view and since none of us has come to this House in order to make profit, a change of profession from other professions to of M.L.A. would be a dead loss. But none of us has come to this very high dignity with any profit making motive, but with a sole intention of working hard for the people. This State has got special problems of its own. In the beginning State of Assam they have railways, steamer service, best roads and also air- ways but here in our State there are no railways, no steamer, though railways may come later to hill areas, even the state- transport service is limited. In most of the areas we have to travel by cars and jeeps or some other means of transport. The most expensive being walking which threatens the health and wears off the mind. The price of leather, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is higher in this State than in many other parts of India - for resoling and buying new shoes (Laughter). This is because of the amount of walking which is sincerely done by the M.L.As. Of course it has been complained by the public that Members of this House rarely visited their Constituencies. I am sure those of us who are here today are wiling to visit the Constituency if not once a month, at least once in two or three months and  thereby ensure that we will gather here again as happy folks after the next five years. I am sure the public will forgive us for giving self- indulgence to appropriate or re- appropriate to ourselves from the public exchequer a slight increase of Rs. 150 provided we promise to give 150 times of devotion to the public. - (Laughter).

Shri Blooming Shallam (Jowai S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to clarify the hon. Member. A slight increase of Rs. 150 when it is calculated will work out to 43 per cent increase.

*Shri Darwin D. Pugh (Nongshken S.T.) : I rise to oppose the proposed amendment and before I do that, would like to read out the relevant Clause. In Clause 3, it is stated that "there shall be paid to mensem" and the amount proposed seeks to enhance the salary of the M.L.As. by Rs. 150 per mensem and since I am not as good in arithmetic as some of the Members here might be I have not been able to calculate how much by this increase of Rs. 150 per mensem it will amount to in five years' time. On account of the majority of the Members of this august House, because there are only four Ministers, one Chief Minister, one Speaker and one Deputy Speaker, barring these 7 and the rest are said to be benefited by this proposed amendment and at the rate of Rs. 150 per mensem, it will work out to a certain sum at the end of 5 years. I oppose the amendment, Mr. Speaker,  Sir, on  ground No.1. We are an infant State, we are not yet able to develop, I may say we are a deficit State, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have not seen any budget estimate in the current financial year, 1972-73. But one does not have to go into the details of the budget estimates. One is only to have a general knowledge of the conditions existing in our State, which, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I for one, claim to have and I believe every single hon. Member of this august House has the general knowledge about the conditions of this infant State. This is an infant and deficit State. Now, I will come to ground No.2, Mr. Speaker, Sir, by which I want to oppose the proposed amendment. That the very nature of the argument put forward in this House during  the last 5 or 7 days, the very nature of speeches made in this august House was such that the proposed amendment will not be in keeping with these sentiments expressed in those arguments and speeches, which every Member, Mr. Speaker, Sir, who has or has not participated vocally in the deliberations of this august House, during the past few days, has expressed grave concern. With the concern expressed by them, I presume we have to do something for the poorer section of the people of the State. We have heard the speeches from all hon. Members aiming at improving the standard of living and the need to make Meghalaya a State free from three groups of enemies of mankind, poverty, ignorance and disease which were really the great enemies and as the Chief Minister in his speech, has said we should fight against the three enemies, i.e., poverty, ignorance and disease. That statement in itself is a form of indication that each and every one of us present in this House is aware of the fact that there is yet plenty of room to do something or the people who are poverty striken. Therefore, it is my humble contention that the proposed amendment will not be in consistence with the sentiment expressed in this House. The second reason on which I would like to oppose this amendment is that the M.L.A. As of most of the States in this country, States which are far better developed, States which have far greater financial resources than that of any other States, received same or similar remunerations as we the Members of this august House receive and therefore, it would be quite unreasonable and unrealistic and out of proportion even to consider for any single M.L.A. to raise the salary of the M.L.As from Rs.350 to Rs.500 in one single jump. Also, Mr. Speaker, Sir, personally, I consider that any such move of amendment, before us, in the manner proposed by the hon. Member who is moving the amendment will be the most unwise thing.  Finally, Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is my humble contention that our State is depending much on the remuneration received and also my friend the hon. Member Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw,  has mentioned about his good intention to tour, to revisit own Constituency and even stated that it may be necessary for you to undertake a tour on foot. I happen to be one of those humble servants of the people who have toured not only in my own Constituency of Nongshken but also have the fortune to tour during the last few years to other Constituencies as well. And I have toured them on foot ant it is from practical experience that I could say that touring on foot is the cheapest mode of travelling. In this case, I agree with the hon. Member when he said that because of the poverty of our District and our State, touring on foot causes wear and tear of the shoes. It will look more than a pity whether to have another sole for Rs. 150 or to pay for a new pair of shoes. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, with these few words, I oppose the amendment, and I would fervently and earnestly request Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw to withdraw his amendment. 

*Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also rise to join with the hon. Member from Nongshken. I think it shall not augur well in the future of our State that in the first session of the Assembly, it comes to our patriotic minds that we should increase the remuneration of the hon. Members. I may well appreciate the difficulties mentioned by the hon. Member from Mawhati. They are more real than can be imagined perhaps but I do not think that would be a very good ground on the basis of which we the Members of this august House should rest our view. The hon. Member from Nongshken has spoken very eloquently and very convincingly also about the inadvisability of adopting this amendment. But Sir, it is said that the example is more convincing than precept. The Members of the Treasury Benches, our Ministers, have never thought about the scope of reducing their travelling expenses and if I may request them through you,  Sir, to show an example not only to the hon. Members of this House but also to the public. Of course, there are political meetings and our Ministers have had to journey in their ministerial cars. They are real and unhidden political meetings. So Sir, let them adopt the example shown by our great great Prime Minister that when she has to attend public meetings she goes there in her own hired helicopters, aero planes or motors cars. A good example, such as hers introduces a true and dedicated and self -less service before the people whom we represent. So, Sir, believing that the spirit to which the hon. Member from Nongshken has given a very graphic illustration will not only be applied to the hon. Members on this side of the House but also to the hon. Members on the other side of the House, I humbly appeal to the Mover to withdraw his amendment. 

Mr. Speaker : Is the hon. Member willing to withdraw the amendment?

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : No.

Shri Parasvanath Choudhury (Laban) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I fully endorse the views of the Member, Mr. Pugh, and I would like to point our that our State is very poor and backward one. We have no resources worth the name to develop this infant State of ours. Only the other day, the while participating in the debate on the Governor's Address, we have passed for so many things for solving problems especially the poverty of the people and unemployment we need more and these problems should get priority. Moreover, Sir, we need have not also been able to do full justice to the low-paid Government servants. They also need more relief. In the face of all these things, I think, it is not appropriate for us to demand in the first sitting of this august House enhancement of our own salaries and allowances and I for one feel that we are here to serve the people and have come here with the solemn pledge to serve them. before doing anything for the people,, if we go on demanding increase of our own salaries, there may be adverse reaction among the people whom we are representing. So, Sir, I do not feel that it is appropriate for us to make such demand. Sir I would therefore, appeal to the hon. Member to withdraw the amendment. 

*Mr. Speaker :- may I remind the hon. Member that when-ever they want to take part in the discussion, they should speak from their own seat and not from anybody else's seat.

        May I now request the Finance Minister to reply.

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have got more to add than what the hon. members from Nongshken and Nongkhlaw have said and I would simply join with them in earnestly appealing and requesting the hon. Member from Mawhati, to withdraw his amendment.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I only want to point out., on a point of information, that is a fact that no Member can live on 350 rupees a month and the amount paid has been according to the revised estimates, at least for 1970-71.

        State- Rs.5,34,200 - and the Budget Estimates for 1971-72 - Rs.7,13,500 and for the 2 months 11 days upto 31st March, 1972 - Rs. 2,30,000, multiplied all these with the ratio , it come to Rs.12,30,000.

        Let us not try to de-cloud our reasons with all these to political motives and other factors. it is an establishment fact that unless an M.L.A . has some other means of income, he just cannot go on with Rs.350 per month. But in view of the arguments put by certain Members,. Mr, Speaker, Sir, with these I humbly submit to their observations, I know they are being recorded, and I withdraw my amendment.

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- The observations regarding expenditure of the Ministers are quite irrelevant because, so far as the Members are concerned, this is not meant to be full payment for the whole month. They are entitled or expected to have their own independent source of income or to work out their own livelihood while the Minister' works are full time they are not expected to have another source of income. So, Sir, here there is no comparison  between the fulltime Ministers of the Government and the hon. members who are expected to have their own source of income.

Mr. Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his amendment ? (Voices - Yes) The amendment stand withdrawn with leave of the House. I put the question before the House. The question is that clause 3 do form part of the Bill. The motion is adopted. Clause 3 do form part of the Bill.

        As there are no other amendments to clauses 4 to 8, I now put the question before the House. The question is that Clauses 4 to 8 do form part of the Bill. Now I pout another question with regard to Clause 1. The question is that Clause 1 do form part of the bill. The motion is adopted, Clause 1 do form part of the Bill.

        I put the question that Clause 1, the Enacting Formula, the Preamble and the title do form part of the Bill. The Motion is adopted. So clause I, the Enacting Formula, the Preamble and the Title do form part of the Bill. Now I request the Finance Minister to move the motion for passing. 

Shri .B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that he Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya (Members' Salaries and Allowances) Bill, 1972 be passed.

Mr. Speaker :- The Motion is n\moved. The question is that the Bill be passed. (The motion was adopted)

The Constituency fund of Meghalaya Bill, 1972

        Before I ask the Minister, Finance to move that the Constituency Fund of Meghalaya Bill 1972, be taken into consideration I am reading here the message from the Governor of Assam.

"RAJ KHAVAN,

Shillong

The 27th March, 1972

        In exercise of the powers conferred by Clause (3) of Articles 207 of the Constitution of India, I Braj Kumar Nehru, Governor of Meghalaya hereby recommend to the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly the consideration of the Contingency Fund of Meghalaya Bill, 1972.

B.K. NEHRU,

Governor of Assam and Meghalaya

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- I beg to move that the Constituency Fund of Meghalaya Bill, 1972, be taken into consideration.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. The question is that the Constituency Fund of Meghalaya Bill, 1972 be taken into consideration.

(The motion was adopted)

 Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Sir, I beg to move that the Contingency Fund of Meghalaya Bill, 1973, be passed.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I put the question before the House. The question is that the Contingency Fund of Meghalaya Bill, 1972 be passed. The emption is adopted. The Bill is passed.

The Meghalaya Interpretation and General Clauses Bill, 1972

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- I beg leave to introduce the Meghalaya Interpretation and General Clauses Bill, 1972. 

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. As there is no amendment to Clause 2, I put the question. The question is that clause 2 do form part of the Bill. The motion is carried, Clause 2 do form part of the Bill.

        So far as Clause 3 is concerned there is one amendment 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : I want to move that for the words "Governor of Meghalaya" the words "Government of Meghalaya" shall be substituted. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : As suggested by the hon. Member there are some printing mistakes.  That in place of the word "Governor" we may put the word "Government". 

Mr. Speaker : Mr. Majaw said that his amendment may be accepted. But it is not in the form of an amendment. It is only a correction of mistakes. So let us that this is only a printing mistakes. So I put the question before the House. The question is that the Clause, as corrected, do now form part of the Bill. The motion is adopted, Clause 3 do form part of the Bill. 

        As there is no amendment to Clauses 4 to 14 may I put the question before the House. The question is that Clauses 4 to 14 do form part of the Bill. The motion is adopted. Clauses 4 to 14 do form part of the Bill. In Clause 15 there is one amendment to be moved by Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw. 

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw (Mawhati  S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that in Clause 15 of the Bill, after the words "Greenwich Meantime" appearing at the end, the words "during Summer, and five hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time during Winter" shall be added. This is because, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether the standard time remains the same. If the clause had indeed any connection with Indian Standard Time there would be even no end for its amendment.

        I rang up the Station Director of the All India Radio and also connected the Indian Airlines Corporation to strengthen  my general knowledge that the difference between the Indian Standard Time and the Greenwich Mean Time varies in winter and difference is five hours and in summer the difference is 5 hours. Station Director here who is a very old and experienced man of the All India Radio said that this is a fact that the difference in summer is 5 hours and in winter it is 5 hours. So, I have added this amending clause amending the phrase "during Summer and five hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time during Winter".

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : Mr. Speaker, may I speak?

Mr. Speaker : Yes. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am afraid we cannot accept this proposed amendment because we have here a reference to the Indian Standard Time and a reference to the Greenwich Mean Time, which never change. What I understand from the hon. Member is that the  Greenwich Mean Time changes and if is is a fact that we have a British time, in summer and in winter, then there are British summers and British winters. But the Greenwich Mean Time is a geographical time fixed at a certain longitude of the world and this Greenwich Mean Time never changes just like the Indian Standard Time. The Greenwich Mean Time is fixed. In any case, to avoid this confusion of 5 hours, whatever it is, if the hon. member will compromise with me, we will omit the words "and five hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time". We will only stick to the Indian Standard Time. If the hon. Member will agree, we will stick to the Indian Standard Time and omit the words "five hours ahead of the Greenwich Mean Time".

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : I accept the compromise formally put forward by the Hon'ble Minister and, therefore, I withdraw my amendment.

Shri Humphrey Hadem (Mynso - Raliang S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to have some enlightment from the Chair whether this, will be the right procedure at this stage. At the consideration stage whether verbal consideration can be allowed?

*Mr. Speaker : In so far as this kind of amendment is concerned, it relates more to the technicalities of the times rather than to the technicality of law- making and so far as the amendment  which has been withdrawn by Prof. Majaw is concerned, his intention is that the time, according to this clause, would be more correct and more perfect and from the point of view of the Minister, Finance also he wants that the time should always be fixed and since there is practically no change in the Indian Standard Time and I do not know whether the Greenwich Mean Time changes during summer and winter, let us depend on our own Indian Standard Time which we know, never changes in four seasons of the year. In so far as the suggestions made by Mr. Hadem is concerned, this is in order, that when the amendment is withdrawn, the other amendment may also be accepted. Even at this stage we can do so. 

*Shri Humphrey Hadem : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, I want only a clarification whether at the second reading of the Bill ever bal amendment can be accepted. That is the  only clarification I want. It seems that it does not come either in the form of a corrigendum or in the form of a regular amendment but only in the form of a suggestion by the mover of the Bill himself. 

*Mr. Speaker : The consideration stage is considered to be in between the second and the third reading. Which is the first reading and which is the second reading, in actual law- making we have forgotten about them, though in the study of Political Science we have a theoretical knowledge of it. So, this particular consideration stage also is a part of the third reading unless we refer it to the Select Committee. 

        Is that the leave of the House that the amendment moved by Prof. Majaw be withdrawn?

(Voices ...........Yes, yes.)

        So the amendment moved by Prof. Majaw is withdrawn with leave of the House and do we have the leave of the House that all the words 'five hours a head of the "Greenwich Mean Time" be deleted from this Clause?

(Voices ...........Yes, yes.)

        So, the words "five hours a head of the Greenwich Mean Time" are deleted with leave of House. 

        Now I put the question  before the House. The question is that Clause, 15, as amended, do form part of the Bill. The motion is adopted. Clauses 15, as amended do form part of the Bill. 

        Now, as there is no amendment in any of the clauses from 16 upto 25, I put the question before the House.  The question is that  Clauses 16 to 25 do form part of the Bill. 

        The motion is adopted. Clauses 16 to 25 do form part of the Bill. 

        In Clause 26, there is one amendment to be moved by Prof.  Martin Narayan Majaw. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I intervene. This should not be taken up as it is of mere correction of the printing mistake and therefore we should accept that it is just a correction of a printing mistake. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Speaker, Sir, my submission in this regard is that, this its the second occasion when your Secretariat has committed another printing mistake. But I would like to know  Sir, whether this printing mistake has actually been committed at your  Secretariat level or at some other levels.

Mr. Speaker : When I say printing mistake I do not mean to say that is it is a proof reading mistake. Printing mistake can occur only in the press. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker,  Sir, whether it is a printing mistake or whether it is there when the Bill was submitted by the Government. 

Mr. Speaker : It is a printing mistake. Printing mistake in the press can occur even after the proof reading is done. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : It is a sad reflection  on the efficiency of the Law Department. The Law Department did not look at the draft properly before it was sent to the press, or it was not sent in a proper form. 

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) : Before we sent the draft for printing, we have looked at it properly and it was sent in a proper form. So the printing mistake is in the press itself. 

Mr. Speaker : In this regard whom shall we blame, the Law Department, the Press or the compositors, I cannot understand. But of course from now onwards both the people working in the press and at my Secretariat should be more careful at the final stage of printing the Bill. So since it is only a mere mistake of printing, let us not go for the amendment. 

        So now I put the question before the House.  The question is that clause 26 do form a part of the Bill. The motion is adopted. Clause 26 as corrected do form part of the Bill. 

        Now as there is no amendment to Clauses 27-42, I put the question before the House. The question is that Clauses from 27-42 do form part of the Bill. The motion is adopted. Clauses 27-42 do form part of the Bill. 

        Now Clause 43. In this Clause there is one amendment to be moved by Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw.

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to move the amendment. In Clause 43 of the Bill the words "shall deem to be effected" shall be substituted by the words "deem to have been effected" because Mr. Speaker, Sir, if we look carefully at the entire Clause, we will notice that the operating words there are of different intention. The service, if it is to be affected, would mean posting of address taking place and the service to be affected is in the proper tense. This must be in the past perfect tense and it will be accordingly corrected. In the English Grammar "shall deem" is very effected for addressing, pasting and posting of the registered letter containing the document, and unless the contrary is roved to have been affected. Here the subordinate Clause is hot bilaterally to be effected and the subordinate clause should have been  used. 

*Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the words that we have used in this Clause 43 are there actual words used as standard language in all the Acts of the Central and State Legislatures and they have stood the test of time and the test of the courts for so many years. If, therefore, we introduce any change in the language the courts will have to search our hearts as to what our intention is. So I would request the hon. Member, let us forget grammar and let us see to the legality of the words used here in this Clause, and as such, I would request him to withdraw the amendment. 

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is only one English language and that is the Queen's language. There is no Indian, Punjabi, Khasi or Bengalee English. If, as it is stated, that the words in use have stood the test of time and the test of courts why should we continue to repeat the same grammatical blunder?

Shri Jormanick Syiem (Mylliem S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are not Englishmen, we have tried to study English language in our school and college career and on reading this Clause, to my mind, it appears that it is going to be effected. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw (Mawhati S.T.) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of information. 

Mr. Speaker : It is only for clarification. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Speaker, Sir, when the mover of an amendment has replied to the debate we should give scope for any other Member to intervene. 

Mr. Speaker : I think it is only a battle of grammar and it is better that we should close the discussion. 

        You want to clarify on the correctness or incorrectness and connotation of the Clause. But I think the Law Minister will have the right to do that because you did not take it up in the first instance.

*Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh (Minister, Law) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, we on this side of the House are very cautious that whatever enactment or law is introduced it should be legally effective and legally perfect as far as practicable. For example let me refer to Clause 27 of the General Clauses Act. The exact language used is :

        "Where any (Central Act) or Regulation made after the commencement of this Act authorities or requires any document to be served by post, whether the expression "serve" or either of the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used, then, unless a different intension appears, the service shall be deemed to be effected by properly addressing, prepaying and posting by registered post, a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."

        This language is used in the Central Act and also in the State Act. For example, I may use the act of our nearest State, Assam.

        "Where any Act authorities or requires any document to be served by post, whether the expression "serve" or either of the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used then unless a different intention appears, the service shall be deemed to be affected by properly addressing, prepaying and posting by registered post a letter containing the document and,  unless, the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post"

        Here "to have been effected" after the service is complete, but here you will have "to be effected" by the first stage is addressing, posting and so on, it is to be effected by that process "to have been effected" is to have been completed after the delivery of the letter by the messenger. In any case it is really correct. So we understand as law makers not so much as an English Class Room. On that account I would request that we need not go to the process but we will go gracefully and adopt this Bill. 

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- I beg to submit Mr. Speaker, Sir, that the grammatical explanation given by the Hon'ble Minister is not acceptable because there are two actions here.- One is putting that service into effect and the other is how it is put into effect. How it is put into effect, that means by properly addressing, and posting of these things. These things have to take place before hand, before you can say that the service is effected. Since that action is prior to the final conclusion, therefore, that action has to be put in the earlier tense and so it is clear from the next Clause which comes in after the words "a letter containing the document and unless the contrary is proved to have been effected". These are only parenthesis i.e., 'to have been elected at the time at which the letter would be delivered". There is also a subordinate Clause running parallel to the earlier one. Because both those actions have taken place in the past and the action of the service "not to have been effected" comes after it. 

Mr. Speaker :- So the hon. Member does not want to withdraw the amendment.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- Totally not as Prof. of English.

Mr. Speaker :- So now I put the amendment before the House. The question is that in Clause 43 of the Bill, the words "shall deem to be effected" shall be substituted by the words "deem to have been effected".

The motion is negatived. The amendment is lost. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- Ungrammatical. (Laughter).

Mr. Speaker :- Now I put the main question before the House. The question is that Clause 43 do form part of the Bill.         

        The motion is adopted. Clause 43 do form part of the Bill. 

        The question is that Clause I, the Enacting Formula, Preamble and the Title of the Bill do form part of the Bill. 

        The motion is adopted. Clause I, the Enacting Formula, Preamble and the Title do form part of the Bill. 

        May I request the law Minister to move that the Meghalaya Interpretation and General Clauses Bill, 1972 be passed?

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh, (Minister, Law) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Meghalaya Interpretation and General Clauses Bill, 1972, as amended, be pleased?

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. 

        I put the main question before the House. The question is that the Meghalaya Interpretation and General clauses Bill, 1972, as amended, be passed. 

The motion is carried and the Bill is passed.

        Let us go to item 8 of today's list of business. Before I request the Minister of Law to move for consideration of the Meghalaya Criminal Law (Amendment) Bill, 1972, may I now read a message from the Governor?

"RAJ BHAVAN

Shillong

The 24th March, 1972.

        In exercise of the powers conferred by clause (3) of Article 207 of the Constitution of India, I, Braj Kumar Nehru, Governor of Meghalaya, hereby recommend to the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly the consideration of the Meghalaya Criminal Law (Amendment) Bill, 1972.

SD/- BRAJ KUMAR NEHRU,

Governor of Meghalaya".

* Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh, (Minister, Law) :-Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Meghalaya Criminal Law (Amendment) Bill, 1972, be taken into consideration.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. The question is that the Meghalaya Criminal Law (Amendment) Bill, 1972, be taken into consideration.

(The motion was adopted).

        As there is no amendment to any of the clauses of the Bill may I request the Minister, Law to move that the Meghalaya Criminal Law (Amendment) Bill, 1972, be passed?

Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh, (Minister, Law) :-Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Meghalaya Criminal Law (Amendment) Bill, 1972 be passed.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved and now I put the question before the House. The question is that the Meghalaya Criminal Law (Amendment) Bill, 1972, be passed.

( After a pause)

The motion is adopted. The Bill is passed.

MISCELLANEOUS

* Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just want to make a small request to you. Since tomorrow is the last day, we have been making many efforts to get secured facilities of zero hour and there will be no zero hour unless there is question hour and since we have already submitted questions to which answers have not yet been coming may I request to these questions at least from their Secretariat so that we can have our zero hour tomorrow? The second request Mr. Speaker, Sir, is just to place on the Table of the House these original papers. (The hon. Member handed over the papers to the Hon'ble Speaker).

Mr. Speaker :- So I may inform the hon. Member that the duty of the Speaker is not to compel the Minister or any other hon. Member to do this thing or that thing. It is up to the sense of understanding on the part of each and everyone to understand his own responsibility. 


ADJOURNMENT

        As there is no business for the day, the House stands adjourned till 9 a.m. on Friday the 7th April, 1972.

N.C. HANDIQUE,

Dated Shillong:

Secretary,

The 6th April, 1972.

Meghalaya Legislative Assembly.