Proceedings of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly assembled after the First General Election 1972

        The Assembly met at 10 A.M. on Tuesday the 5th December, 1972 in the Assembly Chamber, Shillong with the Speaker in the Chair.

( Questions and Answers )

Mr. Speaker : Let us take up Starred Questions.

Starred Questions

( To which oral answers were given )

Starred question No. 7.

District Council Election 

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh asked :

*7. Will the Minister, District Council Affairs be pleased to state -


 Whether it is a fact that the Government of Meghalaya has informed the Secretary of the Jaintia Hills District Council Election Movement that the election to the Jowai Autonomous District will be held in the month of January, 1973 ?


 Whether Government is aware of the fact that the Minister, Agriculture in his speeches in a public meeting at Jowai on 13th September, 1972 and the 21st September, 1972 declared that 16th February, 1973 has been fixed by Government as the date of election to the Jowai Autonomous District ?


 If so, will the Government be pleased to state when was the notification for holding the election to the said autonomous district issued ?

Shri Darwin D. Pugh ( Minister of State, District Council Affairs ) replied :



No, Sir.


No, Sir.


Does not arise

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Whether the Government proposes to hold the Jowai District Council Election in this winter season ?

Shri D. D. Pugh ( Minister of State, District Council Affairs ) : Steps are being take to conduct the election.

Shri Maham Singh : May we know Mr. Speaker, Sir, the time when this election is proposed to be held ?

Shri D. D. Pugh ( Minister of State for District Council Affairs ) : As early as possible.

Shri B. Shallam : Whether it is a fact that there is a case pending in the High Court in connection with this election ?

Shri D. D. Pugh ( Minister of State for District Council Affairs ) : That is a new question.

Shri Maham Singh : May we know the definite period whether one year, three years or five years ?

Shri D. D. Pugh ( Minister of State for District Council Affairs ) : We are trying to hold within next year.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : He said steps are being taken.

Shri D. D. Pugh ( Minister of State for District Council Affairs ) : Preparation of electoral rolls required for this election and any other election is in progress.

Mr. Speaker : Unstarred Questions.


( To which answers were laid on the Table )

Unstarred Question No. 17

Deforestation of Reserve Forest Land for Cultivation in Garo Hills

Shri Pritington Sangma asked :

17. Will the Minister incharge of Forests be pleased to state -


Whether Government is aware of the fact that the land suitable for paddy cultivation are available in the Dhima Reserve Forest in Garo Hills ?


Whether the Government has received any application from the Bolmedang and Chilpara villagers for the deforestation of the cultivable land available inside the Dhima Reserve Forest ?


Whether Government has taken steps to deforest the plots already brought under cultivation and the reclaimable plots of land in the Bolmedang and Chilpara Reserve Forest ?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy ( Minister of Forests )  replied :


(a) -


(b) -


(c) - 


Shri Pritington Sangma : Whether the Government proposes to deforest the land under cultivation in those villages ?

Shri E. Bareh ( Minister, Agriculture ) : The reply is "No".

Shri Pritington Sangma : Sir, how many villagers are involved in the deforestation ?

Shri E. Bareh ( Minister, Agriculture ) : That is a new question.

Mr. Speaker : Unstarred Question No. 18.

Baghmara-Mahadeo Road

Shri Brojendra Sangma asked :

18. Will the Minister incharge of P.W.D. (R. and B.) be pleased to state -


 Whether it is a fact that P.W.D. Road from Baghmara to Mahadeo is meant for jeepable road only ?


 If so, whether Government propose to make this road an all service and all weather road ?

Shri Grohonsing A. Marak ( Minister of State, incharge of P.W.D. )  replied :

18. (a) - No.

      (b) - The road is meant for all types of vehicles with gross weight not exceeding 10 tons. Recently 26 numbers of bridges and 73 numbers of culverts have been constructed on this road and further improvement works on this road may be taken up during the Fifth Plan period subject to availability of funds.

Construction of new roads in Garo Hills, Khasi Hills and Jaintia Hills

Shri Pleander G. Momin asked :

19. Will the Minister incharge of P.W.D. (R. & B.) be pleased to state what are the new roads proposed to be constructed in Garo Hills, Khasi Hills and Jaintia Hills under the Fifth Five Year Plan ?

Shri Grohonsing A. Marak ( Minister of State, incharge of P.W.D. ) replied :

19 - The Road Schemes to be taken up during the Fifth Five Year Plan have not yet been finalised.

Shri F.K. Mawlot : No.19 Sir, in the reply it has been stated that schemes to be taken up in the Fifth Five Year Plan have not been finalised. When the Government proposes to finalise the schemes ?

Shri G.A. Marak ( Minister of State, for P.W.D. ) : I could not hear the question.

Mr. Speaker : The question is when Government proposes to finalise the Schemes ?

Shri G.A. Marak ( Minister of State, for P.W.D. ) : As soon as possible.

Mr. Speaker : Unstarred Question No. 20.

Construction of new roads in the State

Shri Onward Leyswell Nongtdu asked :

20. Will the Minister incharge of P.W.D. be pleased to state -


 Whether the Government propose to construct new roads in the State ?


 If so, what are the roads proposed ?


 If not, why not ?

Shri Grohonsing A. Marak [ Minister of State, P.W.D. (R. & B. )] replied :


(a) -


(b) - 

The list is placed on the Table of the House.

(c) -

Does not arise.

Pilot Research Project

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang asked :

21. Will the Minister incharge of Agriculture be pleased to state -


What does it mean by Pilot Research Project in Growth Centres ?


Whether it is a fact that this is a Central Government Sponsored Scheme ?


If so, what connection has our State Government in the Scheme ?


What are the areas selected for implementation of the Scheme ?


Who are the officers incharge of this Scheme ?


What are the benefits from this scheme to the public ?


What are the financial powers of the Project Director so far grant-in-aid to people is concerned ?


What is the progress of the scheme so far ?


How long will  the scheme be continued ?

Shri Edwingson Bareh ( Minister of Agriculture, Community Development, etc. ) replied :

21.(a) - The Pilot Research Project in Growth Centres is a Research Project which aims at evolving a broad methodology for development of emerging and potential growth centres for providing social and economic overheads in delineated areas in terms of a carefully prepared inventory of local needs. The study is thus focused on the identification of a hierarchy of viable rural growth centres and their related communities, that is the hinter-land. It is proposed to fill up the functional gaps at these central places so as to assist the optimum development of these areas. The purpose of this project is :-

  1. to identify existing and potential growth and service centres together with their associate areas in terms of an economic base and a range of population;

  2. to investigate the suitability of a population range of 10 to 25 thousand in a cluster of 20 villages or so for purposes of a viable community;

  3. to locate other relevant criteria for such identification and delineation;

  4. to study inhabiting social factors and anomalies;

  5. to determine norms for viable village communities in terms of economic investments and social amenities and effectiveness of community institutions like panchayats, co-operatives, etc.;

  6. to organise provision of services and amenities with which these centres should be equipped for creating a self-generating process within the community; and

  7. to suggest eventually, as may be necessary, lines of possible change in the structure and base unit of planning and administration.

(b) - Yes.

(c) - The State Government has the responsibility of co-ordination and administration of this Project.

(d) - Bhoi Development Block is the only area selected as the base of this Project in this State.

(e) - The project is manned by one Project Director, one Research Officer and two Statistical Assistants.

(f) - Being primarily a Research Project there is no direct benefit of the scheme to the public immediately.

(g) - There is no programme of grant-in-aid to the people under the scheme.

(h) - While the work in filling up of Block Questionnaire, preparation of a Study Area Report, preparation of special maps for the Base area have been completed, those on canvassing of village questionnaires and house-hold questionnaires are in the process of being completed. Sampling frame for Cottage Industry and Shop-keeper Questionnaires have also been prepared and submitted to the Central Research Cell, New Delhi.

(i) - The Scheme operates during the Fourth Five Year Plan period.

Small Farmers, Marginal Farmers, Agricultural Scheme and grouping of villages in Garo Hills

Shri Elwin Sangma asked :

22. Will the Minister incharge of Agriculture be pleased to state - 

  1. Whether the Small Farmers, Marginal Farmers and Agricultural Schemes will be implemented in the two Blocks of Resubelpara and Rongjeng ?

  2. Whether the Government intends to undertake grouping of village in Garo Hills during this current financial year ?

  3. If so, the names and the number of villages proposed so far ?

Shri E. Bareh ( Minister, agriculture ) replied :

22.(a) - Yes.

(b) - The Government intends to undertake regrouping of villages in Garo Hills as soon as funds are available.

(c) - Does not arise.

Unstarred Question No. 23.

Water Supply Scheme in Garo Hills

Shri Jackman Ch. Marak asked :

23. Will the Minister incharge of Public Health Engineering be pleased to state - 

  1. To how many villages Government propose water supply scheme in Garo Hills ?

  2. Whether Government propose a scheme for water supply at Silkigiri for the benefit of the people there ?

  3. If so, when ?

  4. What is the progress of the water supply at Tura ?

Shri Grohonsing A. Marak ( Minister of State, Public Health Engineering ) replied :

23. (a) - Since the creation of Meghalaya Government have taken up 7 (seven) Nos. of water supply schemes in Garo Hills from the Plan out of which the Tura water supply schemes was nearly completed during the year 1972 and 6 (six ) Nos. of water supply scheme are in progress. In addition to the above schemes 11 Nos. of water supply schemes have already been taken up under accelerated programme and the works are in progress.

(b) & (c) - A proposal for sanction to the survey estimate has already been received from the Public Health Executive Engineer, Tura. The Public Health Executive Engineer has been asked to submit the feasibility report and on receipt of the same Government will take a decision on the implementation of the scheme subject to availability of funds.

(d) The Tura water supply scheme was nearly completed.

Shri Jackman Marak : Question : 23 ( ). Has the Public Health Engineering Department completed the survey work in the village ?

Shri G.A. Marak ( Minister of State, P.W.D. ) : Which village does the hon. Member mean ?

Shri Jackman Marak : The village mentioned in Unstarred Question 23 (b).

Shri G.A. Marak ( Minister of State, P.W.D. ) : Survey has already been completed and the estimate is being prepared.

Unstarred Question No. 24.

Re-employment and extension of services of some retired officers

Shri Dlosingh Lyngdoh asked :

24. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

  1. Whether it is a fact that the Government of Meghalaya have re-employed or extended the services of some retired officers ?

  2. If so, -

        (i) the name of the officers,

        (ii) the designations, and

        (iii) the period of extension.

    c.    How many of these officers are holding specialist post ?

    d.    Whether there are no other officers or local unemployed persons for the posts ?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma ( Chief Minister ) replied :

24. (a) - Yes. Some retired officers have been re-employed.

      (b) (i), (ii), (iii) - A list is placed on the Table of the House.

       (c) & (d) - The posts against which re-employment have been resorted to are required to be manned by persons having experience. As such persons were not available re-employment of superannuated Government servants had to be resorted to.

Calling Attention

Mr. Speaker : Let us pass on to item No.2. Mr. D.N. Joshi to call the attention of the Minister under Rule 54 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business. But he is absent. In this particular case if the Minister thinks that the matter is of great public importance, he may make a statement. If he does not he should not make it also.

Shri D.D. Pugh ( Minister of State for Education ) : Mr. Speaker, sir, in respect of the Calling Attention Motion which the hon. Member Shri D.N. Joshi intended to move in this House this morning, I would submit and state as follows:-

  1. That this year the H.S.L.C. examination conducted for the private candidates was held from 21st November up to 1st December 1972 in six centres and this was taken up for 1,200 candidates.

  2. The Inspector of Schools in this District was authorised and appointed by the Secretary of the Assam Board of Secondary Education to conduct this examination on its behalf in U.K.J. Hills District. According  to the report available in respect of the leakage of the question papers, the Inspector of Schools has received information on the 27th November, 1972 and she was informed by certain people that the test papers on Elementary Hygiene have leaked out. As the officer concerned did not have reason to believe what was claimed by the informer as correct and as the officer however did not have any concrete proof to substantiate hence she allowed the examination to continue up to 1st December, 1972, that means up to the end. The matter is being vigorously investigated by the officer concerned in consultation with the Member of the Board who was appointed as Assistant Inspector of Schools in these two Districts. On receipt of a full and more complete report from the Government we will take whatever action considered necessary. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I assure the House that this matter is receiving the due consideration of the Government.

Shri H. Hadem : Excuse me, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Can I seek some clarifications. In case Government find that the allegation is true the examination will be declared void ?

Shri D.D. Pugh ( Minister of State for Education ) : Suitable action will be taken whatever proper and necessary.

Privilege Motion 

Mr. Speaker : Let us now pass on to item No.3, i.e., privilege matters. As I told the other day, I have received two privilege motions from Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw against the editor who is also the printer and publisher of the local English Weekly. Since the issues are one and the same, the privilege motions may be clubbed together. I now request Prof. Majaw to move both the motions.

*Prof. M.N. Majaw : Mr. Speaker, sir, I rise to move a motion of privilege against the Editor, Publisher and Printer of the local English weekly "The Implanter" for certain objectionable remark made by it against me under the caption "Will MISA be invoked in Meghalaya", in its issue of the 25th November, 1972, page 6. The text of the passage Mr. Speaker, Sir, is as follows, in the English of the Editor. "When the Income Tax Act was amended Mr. M.N. Majaw wrote letters, issued press release frightening the Tribal contractors of the Income-Tax. The State Government has yet to find out if the news spread by the Law maker is true, and of not what to do. If anything false is allowed to dominate a section of people, it will open opportunity for more of the sorts. Therefore, very likely that MISA will be invoked in this State if a section of the people devote their time to blackmail the Government with something false."

        The statement above is grossly malicious, false and insinuating. The entire tenor of the article which is ungrammatically carried over from the previous week, is that the Maintenance of Internal Security Act should be applied to Meghalaya in order to arrest certain mischief makers, among whom the article implies I should also be included. Further, it is absolutely false to claim that I had "written letters issued press releases frightening tribal contractors of the Income-Tax". This is one privilege motion, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Since I have clubbed the two privilege motions, you can move the other motion.

Prof. M.N. Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move a motion of privilege under Rule 258 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Meghalaya Legislative Assembly, against the editor, publisher and printer of the local English "The Implanter" for certain remarks made by it against the Hon'ble Speaker in its issue of the 25th November, 1972, page 1, under the caption "WILL R.S. SEEK A VOTE OF CONFIDENCE". The item reads as follows. 'With the resignation of Mr. B.B. Lyngdoh from the District Chairmanship of the A.P.H.L.C. and the withdrawal of it, the question now before the public is Will R.S. decide to seek a vote of confidence inside the House and seal the agitated feelings of a few M.L.As for the remaining days ? Mr. R.S. Lyngdoh can do so now if he considers it necessary. H.W.S."

        In the first place the use of the letters "R.S." both in the caption and in the news item is blatantly derogatory to the high honour and esteem that are due to the person of the Speaker. To make matters worse, the paper has published this item on the very first page of that issue, thereby drawing public attention to the item. Courtesy at least, demanded that the editor use at least the prefix of "Mr." before the letters, initials or name of the Speaker.

        As this is not the first time that this paper has tried to besmirch the name and dignity of the Speaker, I hereby move that the Press and Gallery Passes of  the Editor of  "The Implanter" be cancelled forthwith and that the editor, publisher and printer be reprimanded before the bar of the House.

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now you can raise a discussion.

Prof. M.N. Majaw : Mr. Speaker, sir, the issue I have been referring to in the Implanter is this. This paper is supposed to be a public newspaper. And to begin with, the issue on your honourable person appeared right in the front page under the caption "Will R.S. seek a vote of confidence". Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is no occasion for seeking a vote of confidence when there is no motion of no-confidence against the Speaker. But if one is to understand the meaning of the paper perhaps he is implying that the Speaker lacks the confidence of the House. In addition he has not used the prefix "Mr.". He has just written R.S. as if the Speaker was some young Tom, Dick and Harry on the street when he could just refer as 'R.S.'. Then further, Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is not the first time that attempts have been made by this newspaper to besmirch your name, and a mere apology is not enough. The other day, the hon. Member from Mynso-Raliang also brought a motion of privilege against the same paper, the same editor, the same printer and the same publisher. The editor came with an apology after spoiling person's name after six months, because in this particular case the matter is already before the House, the House is seized of the matter and the apology came up in the last issue, just a regret which means repeating the insult. Now, here also the apology is given, Mr. Speaker, Sir. But that will not meet the demand of justice. After you have slapped a man on the face deliberately, not by accident, the apology will serve little purpose, to say 'I am sorry'. If by accident you bump into somebody or you push somebody or dash against somebody's house like Bah Maham's house; in such cases apology has a meaning. But here something has been done deliberately by publishing on the front page against you and this is the second case that the Speaker is being attacked. Therefore the editor of this paper has again by his insinuation damaged the position of the Hon'ble Speaker. In my case, I may humbly point out that the article which I have already referred to is published here at the back of  this paper. The editor has himself ungrammatically carried over from the previous issue. But the article begins with "ment" which is a half word. Now this article "Will MISA be invoked in Meghalaya" is that the maintenance of Internal Security Act should be rigorously applied in Meghalaya because there are certain persons the editor claims should be locked up in jail. The hon. Member from Malki and the hon. Member from Nongstoin have expressed their opinion that the implication here, as I have already read out, is that I had deliberately frightened the tribal contractors about the Income tax. Whereas the truth of the matter if that I frighten the Government so that Government issue orders to Heads of Departments not to deduct Income tax from the tribal contractors and sub-contractors because due perhaps to overleaping on the part of the Government a circular No. 86 that came from New Delhi asking the Commissioners of Income tax to deduct 5% at source with the further order from the Joint Secretary, Finance of the Government of Meghalaya to all Heads of Departments and it is an established fact that in some P.W.D. Divisions this income tax was being deducted. Then they found it out and we also know that the Income Tax Act 1961, Section 10 Clause (26) does not allow tribals to pay income tax. I therefore consulted the lawyers at Gauhati, met the Government also and ultimately an order was issued on the 24th October by the Government of Meghalaya by which they withdraw this and order all Heads of Department not to deduct tax at source from the tribal contractors. Now I fail to understand how this can be termed as frightening the tribal contractors. It is a wrong statement, it is not a statement of fact and then to imply that because of that I should fall under the penalties of MISA, the Maintenance of Internal Security Act. Now the Internal security has been jeopardised by rectifying the mistake. In fact there is better security because the tribal contractors may now support the Government when they found that at last the Government has done something for them, there is a fear that MISA may be invoked in this State because it may be that he has consulted the Government of Meghalaya to presume and conclude that MISA will be invoked because of some notorious persons like Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw it is likely that MISA will be invoked inside the State. If a section of the people blackmail the Government, how and where, and when, will they blackmail the Government, we only threaten to go to court which the citizens enjoy in this country, if Government insists on illegally taking income tax from the tribal contractors and therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know what will be the fate of my privilege motion. It will be left to the House since this is not the first time that has happened. Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is also one privilege motion against one single printer, publisher and editor and I therefore very strongly move that the press gallery pass of the printer, publisher and editor should be cancelled forthwith or suspended until this matter is taken up, decided and settled finally by the House. I would also like to point out Mr. Speaker, that while this paper indulges in these matters it receives the largest number of advertisements of all the local papers in Shillong and we, at least, are left to think that the Government supports this newspaper in order to attack M.L.As and Speaker and others. The Government supports it. Look at the second page, there is a full page advertisement which cost Rs. 550 and on the fifth page, another column worth Rs. 150 and another column for Rs. 200 which in all come to Rs. 900 and is paid to this paper, and the paper attacks and villitiee.

Mr. Speaker : What mathematics are you working ? 150+550 does it work out to Rs. 900.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :  Rs. 550+200+150= 900. For this paper and the very issue for which Rs. 900 is paid, that issue attacks 3 MLAs and the Speaker. So I very strongly propose Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I am sure the House will agree with me, that at least the press gallery pass of the editor, printer and publisher must be suspended. Perhaps he may fall a victim under MISA, but for the time being, his press gallery pass should be suspended.

Mr. Speaker : Supposing his pass is suspended he still continues to write, what will happen then ?

Prof. M.N. Majaw : There are many avenues and methods open to this House. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not want to frighten the editor, printer and publisher because he may have a weak heart. There are measures open to this House by which to penalise him.

*Shri D.D. Lapang : Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is very very unfortunate that the news item published has compelled the hon. Members to come to a conclusion that the editor has committed a serious breach of privilege of the hon. Members and besmirched the prestige and dignity of the House. Mr. Speaker, Sir, such privilege matters as rightly said by the hon. Members have come very often in this august House in which you know, Sir, all such motions fall into the hands of the Privilege Committee constituted by this august House. Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I refer to the Constitution of India, Article 194 (3) which reads like this "In other respects, the powers, privileges and immunities of a House of the Legislatures of a State, and of the Members and the committees of a House of such Legislature, shall be such as may from time to time be defined by the Legislature by law, and, until so defined, shall be those of the House of Commons of the Parliament, of the United Kingdom, and of its Members and committees, at the commencement of this Constitution". Mr. Speaker, Sir, if my knowledge fails me not, this House has not adopted or passed any law as to what will be the list of powers of privileges at all. The procedure adopted in the United Kingdom will be adopted in this country and generally Mr. Speaker, Sir, May's Parliamentary Practice is being adopted. According to May's Parliamentary Practice as listed in his book, I fail to convince myself Mr. Speaker, Sir, that these 3 motions do at all fall under any of the listed privileges mentioned therein. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like also to draw the attention of the hon. Members to Article 19 (1) (a) of the Constitution of India where the freedom of speech and expression is allowed to any citizen of India and freedom of the Press. May I refer also Mr. Speaker, Sir, to the Supreme Court case which appeared in the Supreme Court case No.124 of 1950 when the Supreme Court has explained the spirit of this Article in regard to the freedom of speech and expression, including freedom of propagation of ideals. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in this context I would like to tell the hon. Members that the publication of the news item may be only the propagation of ideals in which the Editor has got the right to express as a citizen of India. He has been empowered by the Constitution of India itself. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I fully support the contention that the hon. Members of this House should be aware or conscious about the prestige and dignity wherever we are that it will not be reflected on this House. But Mr. Speaker, Sir, it will be wise on our part to refer to some incidents or some action taken or some decision made by the two Houses, viz.,  Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha in the recent past. I may be allowed to refer to a book entitled the "Parliamentary Procedure in India" by Mr. A.R. Mukherjee. In that book it will be seen that Shri Frank Anthony a Member of the Lok Sabha on the 25th August, 1956 brought a similar motion stating that the Hindustan Times  has misrepresented his speech and that has very badly reflected the House and privileges of the hon. Members. Mr. Speaker, Sir, after discussion, the House has requested the Editor to correct if at all the news item was a misinterpretation of fact. The Editor then complied with the request and the case was dropped. There was another case in which Shri Bhupesh Gupta, M.P., brought such a motion before the House against one Weekly Journal from Delhi for its willful, unfair and mendacious publication of certain news item which has affected his personality as a Member of the august House. In this incident the House did not penalise the Editor but rather advised the Editor to examine the publication and rectify it if necessary. The Editor did accordingly and the case against him was dropped. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to refer to a case which happened very recently. The case was brought before Lok Sabha on the 17th April, 1972 this year, where Shri Keshab Choudhury, M.P., belonging to Jan Sangh Party, has charged the Editor of a Newspaper from Delhi for very badly damaging his prestige and dignity as a Member of Lok Sabha. It has reflected his Party and the House as a whole. The Hon'ble Speaker of Lok Sabha himself said ....... 

Mr. Speaker : Are you referring to the ruling of the Speaker Lok Sabha ?

Shri D.D. Lapang : Sir, I am only referring to the manner in which the case was dealt with. Now when the case was brought before the House, the Hon'ble Speaker of Lok Sabha assured the House that he would contact the Editor of the paper and request him to regret. The motion was moved on 17th April and on the 18th the Editor expressed his regret for the said publication and the case was dropped. So in this case also the Editor of the Newspaper may be asked to tender apology and express regret for such publication and the case may be dropped as was the practice of the Lok Sabha. Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are two more privilege motions against this paper still for discussion. But Mr. Speaker, Sir, I doubt whether these charges really fall under the listed privileges. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I may also refer to another Supreme Court case in 1965 as in A.I.R.  65 Supreme Court 745, the case is "U.P. Assembly and the High Court conflict. Here, Mr. Speaker, Sir, a conflict between one Mr. Singh and the U.P. Assembly, since the former has committed contempt of the U.P. Legislature by publishing a news item in his paper. As such the U.P. Assembly passed a resolution that Mr. Singh should be reprimanded and his Press Gallery ticket should be cancelled. And Mr. Singh was sent for imprisonment as he had committed a breach of privilege. Then Mr. Singh went to High Court for legal remedy and the High Court passed an order that Mr. Singh should be released under Section 491 Cr.P.C. and Article 226 of the Constitution of India against the resolution of the U.P. Assembly.

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- On a  point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member is referring to several decisions of the High Court, Supreme Court and the rulings of the Speaker. Whether the hon. member can produce any document?

Mr. Speaker :- There is no bar for any hon. Member to express his opinion and give illustrations.

Shri D.D. Lapang : Mr. Speaker, sir, the decision of the High Court was challenged by the U.P. Assembly and the matter was referred to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court also upheld the order passed by the High Court and as such the order stood valid. So the High Court prevented the Speaker from executing the decision of the House. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have brought all these instances, with the sole object that these instances would serve as a guidance and precedent for our Legislature also. Let us not place ourselves on any wrong footing which may lower the prestige and dignity of the House. Moreover according to me, by penalising the Pressmen we would hurt the sentiment of the Journalists' Association which we cannot afford. So, Mr. Speaker, sir, I may be allowed again in the last portion of my speech to refer to an old saying which never grows old which napoleon said and I believe it has got a message even today that "Hostile newspapers are more to be feared than a thousand bayonets". With these few words, Sir, I resume my seat.

Mr. Speaker : Any other hon. Member ?

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is indeed very difficult to participate in this motion of breach of privilege because it pains me very much to learn that the editor, printer and publisher of 'The Implanter' has faced these complaints of breach of privilege during the Winter Session itself. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I must confess at the very outset that I have personal penchant for the editor. I am his well-wisher and, at the same time, I would like to see that his paper gets wider circulation. I would also, at the same time, like to see that the standard of the press and journalism is improved. In so far as the objectives of mass media and the press are concerned, I would like to say that the Press have got the main objective which is to disseminate news and information. It is true Mr. Speaker, Sir, as already pointed out by the hon. Member, Mr. Lapang, that the Press has got the freedom of speech and expression as guaranteed by the Constitution but, at the same time, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we should not forget that freedom of speech and expression is always subject to reasonable restrictions. We cannot say, Sir, that because of this freedom of expression that the Press can go beyond the limits and abuse or accuse persons. In so far as this particular motion is regard to the Misa Episode is concerned, the Editor has gone very far afield by trying to insinuate the three hon. Members - the hon. Member who has just moved the motion, Mr. Kharbuli and Mr. Mawlot. So, Sir, in my opinion the Press has to function with certain limitations and certain responsibilities and obligations.

        Now, Mr. Speaker, sir, first of all I would like to come to the first Privilege Motion in today's List of Business and that is with regard to the news item that appeared in "The Implanter" under the caption "Will R.S. seek a vote of confidence?" In this connection, I would like to read a paragraph from the article written by Shri G.V. Mavalankar, published in the "Parliamentary Democracy in India". It says : "In parliamentary democracy, the office of the Speaker is held in very high esteem and respect. There are many reasons for this some of them are purely historical and some are inherent in the concept of parliamentary democracy and the powers and duties of the Speaker. Once a person is elected Speaker, he is expected to be above parties, above politics. In other words, he belongs to all the Members or belongs to none. He holds the scales of justice evenly, irrespective of party or person, though no one expects that he will do absolute justice in all matters; because, as a human being he has his human drawbacks and shortcomings. However, everybody knows that he will intentionally do no injustice or show partiality. Such a person is naturally held in respect by all."

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, the lines which appeared in this news item are the question now before the public is "Will R.S. seek a vote of confidence inside the House". When I read this news item Mr. Speaker, sir, it came to me as a bomb shell because we the Members of this House and the public also did not know anything with regard to the position of the Speaker. We know nothing as to what has happened to him and Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would also like to refer to the two issues of this paper dated 18th November, under the caption "B.B. Lyngdoh resigns District A.P.H.L.C. Chairmanship". From here also Mr. Speaker, Sir, the letter of resignation does not say anything regarding the Speaker and in the subsequent issue dated 25th November it was published like this : "On the 15th of this month I have tendered my resignation from the Chairmanship of the Khasi Hills District A.P.H.L.C. on the ground of my wrong impression of the attitude of the Central leadership of the A.P.H.L.C. on the recommendation made by the District A.P.H.L.C. in the matter connected with the Speaker of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly". So, Sir, the only thing mentioned about the Speaker is only these few words  and they are very vague in a matter connected with the Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to pose a question here in the news item published under the caption "Will R.S. seek a vote of confidence?" The question now before the public is "Will R.S. decide to seek a vote of confidence" and the hon. Editor has considered wisely or otherwise to drag in the public into this nefarious game. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to submit that this news is scandalous and designed to damage the reputation of the hon. Mr. Speaker and it is a fit case, Mr. Speaker, that action should be taken against the editor, publisher and printer of this newspaper, for insinuating the high and dignified office of the Speaker. I would like to come now to the third motion and that is with regard to the news item dated the 25th November under the caption "Will Misa be invoked in Meghalaya". In this connection, Mr. Speaker, Sir, not only the mover, Prof. M.N. Majaw is involved, but if we read the entire dispatch of this issue we shall find that three hon. Members of this august House are also involved. I would humbly submit,  Mr. Speaker, Sir, that by this news item the Editor is taking the hon. Members, not only the three, but all of us to be merely crows and this machinery is just like a scarecrow. He wanted to show that the Editor of the newspaper most probably has read the article on Misa and the provision that has been laid down in it so that any hon. Member who indulges in such things will be hooked by the provision of the Misa. So,  Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is more important because I find, as already expressed by the mover of this privilege motion that this paper has got certain amount of nexus from the ruling party and the Government  Mr. Speaker, Sir, it may be that the Editor has intentionally published this news item in ingratiating circumstances. We know it very well  Mr. Speaker, Sir, the connection that this newspaper has with the Government. The hon. Member who just moved the motion expressed all these things, I would like to submit,  Mr. Speaker, Sir, that in regard to this particular news item, the matter is grave. It is tendentious and highly damaging. And it is also a great insinuation on the activities and the conduct of the hon. members involved.

         Mr. Speaker, Sir, at the very outset, I have already expressed my penchant for the Editor of the paper I told at the very outset that I am his well wisher. But so far as these motions are concerned, I would like to submit despite the considerations I have for the paper, I would like to remind, perhaps, the old saying 'if we spare the rod, we shall spoil the child'. So,  Mr. Speaker, Sir, despite what I feel for the Editor, I want that the rod should not be spared. I have already said that this is the only English Weekly owned by a tribal. So my best wishes go to this paper. At the same time,  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to remind the Editor of this paper that he will have to grow up through trials and tribulations and also  Mr. Speaker, Sir, to quote the lines, if I am not mistaken, of Shakespeare when he said "Sweet are the fruits of adversity". So with these words, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to commend this motion of breach of privilege and recommend that the matter be looked into, and pending decision either by the House or by the Committee the gallery pass of the Editor should be suspended. The suspension will be for only one day, because this Winter Session will end on the 6th. Sir, there is one more point which was raised by the hon. Member, Shri D.D. Lapang. He said that all the three motions should have been clubbed together. I beg to differ  Mr. Speaker, Sir, that according to the enlightenment given by the Hon'ble Minister for Parliamentary Affairs who has already recommended that this motion be referred to the Privilege Committee because he found that it is a fit case to be referred to the Privilege Committee. With these few words, Sir, I resume my seat.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I don't have much to say on this particular motion except to express that I whole-heartedly support it. First of all, Sir, the previous speakers I mean at least those who are against and for the motion have referred to some of the speeches of the prominent persons like Napoleon, Shakespeare, Solomon and others. But Sir, I would only refer to the speech of the hon. Member from Nongpoh. I want to start from what he has ended. Sir, as far as I remember, towards the end of this speech he has quoted Napoleon by saying that hostile newspapers are more to be feared than a thousand bayonets.  Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is true and that is why this privilege motion is brought before the House (laughter). I think it is very very serious, Sir, to attack a person or hon. Member and others who are respectable persons. So Sir, I think it is a fit case for this House to refer the matter to the Privilege Committee as the paper has committed a breach of privilege of the hon. Member as well as the House as a whole. Secondly,  Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member has also referred to the last issue where he said that a corrigendum for the previous report has been issued to him. But Sir, it is not a corrigendum and as such I think it is an insult or rather an assault. It was an insult at the time of publication and this time it is an assault. In this corrigendum everything has been made clear that after killing the men the paper tried to correct that it did not kill the men, and wanted us to take that it did not kill the man after killing him. So Sir, I think this is not a very reasonable argument put forward by the hon. Member.  

Mr. Speaker : I may point out here that a privilege motion has been moved in the House and if the apology should come at all, it should come to the House and through the House.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :  I was about to say that, Sir. It is the property of the House. So, if anything is done to me personally, I am sure that it is done to the whole House since I am part and parcel of the House. I think indirectly, in this way, Sir, all Members are part and parcel of the House. So if something is done to a particular member by anyone, it means doing harm to the whole House. So this case also merits consideration of the House because it amounts to contempt of the House itself. Thirdly, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like also to remind the House that there were already 4 privilege motions taken up, and three privilege motions, Sir, were moved against one Khasi paper for using the word "Jingkaw-kaw" and on that word "Jingkaw-kaw" a motion was pressed by the hon. Member from Nongpoh itself. At that very time he was very adamant and that is why he moved that motion.

Mr. Speaker : At that time he was not yet the editor of a paper (laughter).

Shri Humphrey Hadem : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I mean he moved the motion and strongly pressed it.

Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah  It is a different issue altogether.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I say that it is not a different issue altogether. Why I say that is because he has said that until the rules are made, we cannot do anything except this way or that way. He has referred to the Article under the Constitution of India which to me is very very irrelevant in this particular Privilege Motion. The Constitution of India under Article 194 Sir, refers only to the powers and privileges etc. of the House of Legislatures and Committees thereof. I will read it fully Sir, Clause I is like this; "Subject to the provision of this Constitution and to the Rules and Standing Orders regulating the procedure of Legislature, there shall be freedom of speech in the Legislature of every State: So it is not in newspaper but in the Legislature of every State. The second clause says : "No Member of the Legislature of the State shall be liable to any proceedings in any Court in respect of anything said or any fact given by him in the Legislature or Committee thereof and no person shall be so liable in respect of publication by or under the authority of the House." I repeat Sir, "By or under the authority of the House." Any State Legislature or any Representative Committee or both can do so under the authority of the House and I do not remember that we have passed a resolution authorising any paper to publish these two or three items as brought here in the Privilege Motion. The third clause says "the powers, the privileges and amenities of the House or Legislature of the State and the Members of the Committee of the House of such Legislature shall be such as may from time to time be defined by the Legislature by law and until so defined shall be as passed by the House of Commons and Parliament of the United Kingdom and all its Member and Committees at the commencement of this Constitution. But Clause (4) says very clearly and even Clauses I, II and III shall apply to these categories of persons who by virtue of this Constitution have the right to speak and otherwise to take part in the proceedings of the House or Legislature of a State or any Committee thereof as they apply only to Members of that Legislature. They apply only to Members of the Legislature but do not apply to any Member or person out side. But persons authorised by virtue of the Constitution should have the right to speak and take part in any proceedings of the House. Therefore, any reference to Article 194 of the Constitution is irrelevant in this particular motion. So Sir, in view of the facts stated above I strongly feel that this is a fit case of breach of privilege since in this very session we are having three privilege motions against one and the same paper. I would say as one of the hon. Members has stated if we want that this paper will prosper and be going on like this we should show our sympathy. I don't think I have any sympathy for such type of paper. If the House considers fit I move that this paper be banned from creating any more false news. So Sir, I support the motion moved by the hon. Member from Mawhati.

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang :Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of clarification I think the hon. Member who has referred to Article 194 has misunderstood its real meaning. It said under that Article that if any matter to be discussed, it should be inside the House and not to refer to an outsider. Therefore this matter should be referred to the Privilege Committee. I think Mr. Hadem has really misunderstood the meaning.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : I understand for the last 21 years and not only now.

Mr. Speaker : It was not a question of misunderstanding but it was the whole House which has decided.

*Shri Blooming Shallam : Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are discussing a privilege motion against the person who is not in a position to defend himself. I do not know how far the Members from the other side are right in trying to focus the attention of the House against the Editor of the "Implanter". I do not know if the said Editor will be in a position to explain himself about all we have heard now. But in so far as I am concerned, I do not see that there is much we can say against the editor and that according to the constitutional rights, one has got freedom of expression. He said, "With the resignation of Mr. B.B. Lyngdoh from the District Chairmanship of APHLC and the withdrawal of it, the question now before the public is "Will R.S. decide to seek a Vote of Confidence inside the House and seal the agitated feelings of a few MLAs, for the remaining days?" Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Editor can have a right to say these words and in our democratic country, he has got freedom of expression. Therefore, one is free except only when he has stated in his statement the two letters RS.

Mr. Speaker : But how is it possible. He has linked the names of B.B. Lyngdoh with that of R.S.

Shri Blooming Shallam : Well Mr. Speaker, Sir, even if the Editor has used the name of our Hon'ble Speaker, I do not see there is any harm in it.

 Mr. Speaker : But the content of his writing was 'R.S.' At least when the hon. Member intends to make any suggestion, he should have come prepared for consideration by the House.

Shri Blooming Shallam : Alright, Mr. Speaker, Sir, but I feel there is no harm for the Editor in his editorial to use the name of any of the Members of the House. Therefore, it may not be a breach of privilege of the Members to be called by their names, or sometimes, we can use the word like members, Sir and something like that. I do not see there is any reason why he cannot express these words. Therefore, I do not wish the Members to jump into taking action as suggested by the hon. Members from the other side. I feel we should consider very deeply otherwise if the Editor goes to the court of law, the court of law will give a ruling against this decision of the House.

Mr. Speaker : You are entering into a very controversial issue of the subject matter. As the hon. Members of the House are aware, the court of law is a supreme body but it can never overcome the supremacy of any legislature and the legislature is always supreme in whatever decision it takes. If you, as a Member of this august body, do not even understand the value of dignity of the House, then where is the supremacy of this legislature.

Shri Blooming Shallam : My point is that according to my opinion before we take any action as suggested by the hon. Members from the other side, I feel that we should think carefully about the matter and then only we may refer the matter to the Privilege Committee to go into the details of the whole issue.

*Shri H.E. Pohshna : Mr. Speaker, Sir, while supporting the motion moved by the mover of this privilege motion, I would like to express my regret by saying that the House has to discuss such a very serious breach of privilege committed by the editor of the Implanter when he said in his editorial that "With the resignation of Mr. B.B. Lyngdoh from the District Chairmanship of APHLC and the withdrawal of it, the question now before the public is "Will R.S. decide to seek a Vote of Confidence inside the House and seal the agitated feelings of a few MLAs, for the remaining days?" What are those agitated feelings of a few MLAs. It might be the agitated feelings of one of us who have opposed the motion while he has expressed it in this House. These are purely matters of the APHLC which happened to be the Ruling Party and secondly, it refers to another subject matter. 'Will R.S. decide to seek a Vote of confidence inside the House? At the same time, I would inform some Members from the Ruling Party that this sort of making a false statement i.e., without any background, is not pleasant to the Members of the House, especially to the Minister. The first one reads B.B. and the other R.S. What is the meaning of these two words. Nobody except the Editor can interpret. According to me B.B. means baby, big boxer and being a bachelor and so on so forth. (laughter)

        I do not like to take the time of the House because in the last para the words R.S. meaning our Speaker, had been published. This sentence has lowered the dignity of the House as he is our protector and custodian of this House. As the hon. Member from Nongpoh has rightly pointed out when he classed that particular paper as hostile to the Members of this House and he has also suggested that it should be referred to the Privilege Committee.

Shri D.D. Lapang : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have not classed that particular Editor of the paper as hostile to the future as interest of the members of this House and I would request the hon. Member from Nongtalang, through you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, not to interfere in other member's freedom of expression.

Shri H.E. Pohshna : I am grateful to the hon. Member from Nongpoh when he said he has not classed the newspaper as hostile but he has boldly stated that hostile newspapers are always more dangerous than violence occurring in the State. Therefore, Sir, I would request the Members of this House to go through this subject thoroughly and take drastic action against the Editor as suggested by the hon. mover of this Motion so that these things will not occur in future, even though some of the Members from that side had strongly opposed it because this paper happened to be the APHLC's Weekly Paper. But, Sir, for the interest and the dignity of this House and for the prestige and honour of the newspapers in Meghalaya, I support the Motion.

Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I fully share with your remark made earlier that this motion of privilege is a matter which vitally concerns the House. It is a matter to be dealt with all seriousness that it deserves. I am fully aware that this is a very vital and important matter affecting not only the dignity and prestige of the House but I am also aware that whatever decision we take today will affect the future course, the future happenings or proceedings of this House. We will create a precedent and a certain convention. Our State is very young and this Assembly is only about 8/9 months old. And we have dealt with several motions, some of which are still with the Privilege Committee and we do not know the fate of those motions. So I feel that on this question we should not consider it a matter of A.P.H.L.C. or Opposition or that 'Implanter', as has been mentioned by the hon. Member, is pro-A.P.H.L.C. I do not know whether it is actually so. But on this matter, let us consider it on the merits of the case rather than to be taken with a bias or politics. This is not a matter to be considered a partisan way. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will approach the subject, as far as possible and to the best of my knowledge, in a balanced way. I am fully aware of the scarcity of the House and I am also fully aware of the privileges, amenities and advantages of the hon. Members that they are entitled. I am also aware that here there is a democracy in which freedom of the press is enshrined in the Constitution. The freedom of expression is a fundamental right - I am aware of it. Therefore, whatever we do, we have to approach it in a balanced manner. Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the word 'privilege' is a word to which we have to go a little deeply. In the Oxford Dictionary it is said to be a right, advantage or amenity or prerogative enjoyed by a person attached to some office, rank or station. Therefore, we are now enjoying these rights, advantages and privileges as Members of House. But may I remind the hon. Members and refer to May's Parliamentary Practice? It is said at page 42, in Chapter-3 General View of the Privilege of Parliament - 'the privilege though part of the law of the land is to a certain extent an exemption from the ordinary law. The word which carries meaning here is 'to a certain extent' and we should be able to determine to what extent the privilege is part of the law and to what extent it is an exemption from the ordinary law of the land. Therefore, as rightly remarked, it is very important and we are here to uphold the sanctity and sovereignty of this House. I do not like to venture into the realm of legality or otherwise. We are here to uphold the sanctity  of this House and the privileges which we are enjoying I can quote from many other references but I do not think it is necessary. We are enjoying certain privileges and we know that there are those outsiders in the democratic world who can express their views or opinion without fear or favour. Therefore, when there is a motion saying that a certain paper or certain editor, publisher and printer tried to besmirch the name and dignity of the House or the Speaker, it has to be considered how far it is actually so. Again in May's Parliamentary Practice at page 43, there is a mention about the breach of privilege and contempt. I will read it - 'when any of these rights and amenities both of the Members individually and of the Assembly in its collective capacity, which are generally known to be the privileges, are disregarded or attacked by any individual or authority, the offence is called breach of privilege and is punishable under the law of the land'. We are to consider, Mr. Speaker, Sir, to what extent and in what manner the editor, publisher and printer of 'Implanter' has disregarded or attacked the privileges of the individual member of this House. Therefore, with this end in view, I will try to analyse and to present a certain point of view so far the motion which came before the House the other day concerning Mr. Humphrey Hadem. I am one with the Member, the mover of the motion and also with the Minister of Parliamentary Affairs that there has been some prima facie case of breach of privilege so far the name of Mr. Humphrey Hadem has been mentioned as Mr. Humphrey Hadem, M.L.A. But in the case of the second motion, which came before the House today, the name of Mr. Majaw was not at all mentioned.

( Voices .......... Mr. Speaker, Sir, .......... On a point of order ..........)

        I am just trying to point out. Please be patient. I am just trying to argue and to see when a person discharges his duties outside the House and when a certain paper writes something objectionable, whether that constitutes a breach of privilege. This is a very important matter and let us not be partisan in discussing this issue. Now in the last motion, the name of Mr. Humphrey Hadem was put as Mr. Humphrey Hadem, M.L.A. The second point, the metting which was supposed to be held was non-existent. So there is a prima facie case of  breach of privilege. In the second motion the name of Prof. M.N. Majaw was not written as M.L.A. and secondly here it is not the question of the matter which was non-existent. Here is a question of insinuation, here is a question of hint and whether the hint can be construed as a breach of privilege. So these are the points to be considered.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of clarification. May I point out to the hon. Member from Jaiaw that though the word M.L.A. was not used after my name but he has made a reference to me as a law maker.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :-  Any way I hope the hon. Member will bear with me that this matter is not directly very objectionable. In so far as the second motion which came before the House today is concerned, I feel that there is doubt whether Mr. M.N. Majaw whose name mentioned here is not as M.L.A. Does it affect the dignity and prestige of the House. Now with regard to the first one, the motion is on the basis of the news item appearing on the 25th November 1972 which says "will R.S. seek a vote of confidence". That is not a positive statement, it is a statement of interrogation, it is a query - "will R.S. seek a vote of confidence? It is a query and the objectionable word according to the mover of the motion is only the abbreviation of the name and I assume R.S. is the name of the Hon'ble Speaker of the House. Now the question is whether the abbreviation of name by the Editor is a matter which is derogatory to the office. Well it does not look decent and proper, I quite agree. But let me cite an instance, Mr. George Bernard Shaw the genius is known as G.B.S. and the late John F. Kennedy is known as J.F.K. and also Shri Jaiprakash Narayan is known as J.P. Is it derogatory? These are the points to be considered.

        With all respect I have for you, sometimes the abbreviation is given  to the President of India and even cartoons which are highly objectionable have been published. This is happening in democratic press. 

Shri H.E. Pohshna :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order, the hon. Member may term it as Ramkrishna.

Mr. Speaker :- I think the House is seized of the important question. It is the question of prestige and dignity of the House.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, in so far as the name is concerned well it does not look decent and proper, it might be. But my question is whether it is derogatory. Now,  Mr. Speaker, Sir, the mover has gone to a large extent in accusing the Editor by saying that the publication of the news item was done in the first page. It may be published in the second or third page but the most important thing is the content and the meaning. I have said from the beginning that the whole news item is a query, it is not a positive statement. But in so far as it is concerned with the linking of a matter of seeking confidence with the resignation and the withdrawal of Mr. B.B. Lyngdoh, I think it is serious and I agree with Mr. Majaw that the question of seeking confidence is not necessary without  a No confidence Motion. So far as these are concerned, I am one and I would like that people should express their views  and, I think, we should not be too sensitive of these matters as public leaders. Taking the over all picture of the motions, motion No.1 is relating to Mr. Hadem, Motion No.2 relates to Mr. M.N. Majaw and the third motion concerns the Hon'ble Speaker. I do feel that we should be able to strike a balance and I do not like that this matter should be decided off hand. I am against any decision off-hand but I am for any decision which is based on thorough examination of the case. Therefore, I feel that the matter should go to the Privilege Committee.

*Shri B.B. Lyngdoh ( Minister Parliamentary Affairs ) :  Mr. Speaker, Sir, on these three motions I am to observe the fact that we are new, very new and therefore, naturally very sensitive. On the first motion moved the other day by the hon. Member, Mr. H. Hadem I had made my observation. Before elaborating I would like to emphasise the fact that perhaps though we are new, all of us understand the meaning of privilege. So far as legislators are concerned, their privileges are those peculiar rights - the special rights which no other persons and no other office or institutions have. The need of peculiar rights is such that without them the legislators or members cannot discharge their duties. Therefore the need arises for these peculiar rights for example, as members of this House there is the need that we should have full freedom of speech. Therefore, if we make a certain speech which may amount to defamation, it is for the common court to decide. But being Members of this House we have the privilege to discuss because that will help us to exercise freedom of speech and to speak freely about the affairs of the State. These are our special rights attached to us for the good of the State and for the good of our people for whom we exist and come here. Now that a newspaper report is wrong about the existence or non-existence of the public meeting, it is for the Member of the House to give a contradiction. I have doubted very much how it will relate to a matter of privilege. That is the first charge of Mr. Hadem against the editor that he has brought about the wrong report but how it relates to a matter of privilege. Secondly, in the paper he has said that Mr. so and so has made an attack personally on Mr. so and so, on Ministers or M.L.As. What privilege is infringed by reporting such case that in fact did not actually happen. Therefore, it is wrong to say that being a Member of this House my speech should not be reported outside the House or that I did not attend any meeting. Let us understand the meaning of privilege. However, in that case I have also observed that by being new it may lead to one thing but let us not make any hurried decision because we are new. Therefore, I support the contention that the matter may be referred to the Privilege Committee which will go thoroughly into all those cases that were referred to by our hon. Member from Nongpoh about the history of Privilege Committee in the British Parliament and also about the practice in India about 10 to 15 years ago. Since we are new, let the Privilege Committee study and report to us and we shall learn a great deal about it. I suppose it should go to the Privilege Committee for our own benefit. The other motion of breach of privilege is about MISA. I think Prof. Majaw has moved that a breach of privilege was committed by this newspaper because it has referred to him like this - "When the Income Tax Act was amended, Mr. M.N. Majaw wrote letters, issued press releases frightening the tribal contractors of the Income Tax. The State Government has yet to find out if the news spread by the law-maker is true and if not what to do.

        If anything false is allowed to dominate a section of the people, it will open opportunity for more of the sorts. Therefore, very likely that MISA will be invoked in this State if a section of the people devote their time to blackmail the Government with something false". Firstly, I would share with Prof. Majaw the surprise about this writing. How can MISA be linked with any wrong statement or wrong letter or wrong fact as stated by the MLAs regarding this. I am also surprised about this and I share fully with Prof. Majaw the linking of this thing. How it relates I cannot understand. Prof. Majaw has stated that he did issue a statement of some sort regarding the Government Circular from the Finance Department to all the Heads of the Elakas informing them of all the directions from the Central Government regarding the procedure of realising income tax from contractors and businessmen. Now the fact is that as Prof. Majaw has observed perhaps it is the intention to tax contractors including the tribal contractors who are not liable to Income tax. It is a fact of course that Finance Department would be more elaborate in explaining, but it is presumed that these tribal contractors are only being informed as actually they are always exempted from payment of taxes. Therefore this Circular refers only to the case of tribal contractors. But however, Prof. Majaw would like to draw the attention of the Government to clarify those points in the Circular letter. It is for clarification from the Government lest the people forget that they are exempted from payment of taxes. Therefore the statement was issued. In this also I would like to say how this writing in the newspaper affects the privilege of the hon. Member in the discharge of his functions as Member of this House. I do not know in what connection this can be drawn that the editor has committed a breach of privilege of this House and the hon. Members in discharging his duties as Member of the House when it reports that Mr. so and so M.L.A., has written a letter and that perhaps in connection with the Maintenance of Internal Security Act. How it affects the House or M.L.A. I do not know. I am equally surprised why the Implanter should not be co-operative with the hon. Members in this whole thing. Here again how is this a question of breach of privilege. I do not however object, yet one shall learn and benefit also when the Privilege Committee goes into these things and gives us its findings. Now Sir, the question is quite delicate and so far I should say, the way that the editor writes and publishes by putting the question mark and the initials, I do not know. Perhaps I have observed that trend somewhere in some other countries. Really I do agree that they are not dignified, they are not respectful they are not helpful at all to the society and to the public that this paper should write in this way. Well, the writing of the initials about myself like BB appears to the people to be the queen to those people who are playing cards (laughter). Therefore, it may not be derogatory to me when he writes BB. The question is whether as a Member of this House I was referred in derogatory terms as BB. I doubt very much whether there is difference regarding my position as a public leader and as a Member. Therefore the question is whether a reference to the initials of the name of the Hon'ble Speaker would be derogatory to the office of the Speaker or to the House. If it is derogatory to the office of the Speaker and to the House, it is a matter of privilege and whether it affects the function of the House. Here is a difference. But between the court and the legislature there is always a very well established concept of  the dignity of the court. Any derogatory remark on the court is condemned by the court because it affects the faith of the people in the Judiciary which affects justice. Now the question arises as to whether there is any derogatory remark against the legislature which affects the dignity of the House and at the same time whether the House has a legal right of dignity, whether as Members of the House we have the dignity of the court. My question Mr. Speaker, Sir, will be gone into by the Privilege Committee and as I have said that as we are new we have to get a great deal of benefit from the findings of the Committee. I expect that the Committee will take the hint from the Member from Nongpoh who has stated that these cases of breach of privilege should be dealt only in the manner obtaining in the Lok Sabha.

        Lastly, Sir, regarding one motion which has not been asked for sending to the Privilege Committee but which has been moved that the Press and Gallery passes of the Editor of "The Implanter" be cancelled forthwith and that the editor, publisher and printer be reprimanded before the bar of the House. One thing I would submit, Sir, that this will tantamount to pre-judging the issue here. We are new as I have said and we have to go thoroughly into the question and look into the books thoroughly. I as Minister of Parliamentary Affairs have not been able to learn thoroughly and I would also presume the hon. Members here are not equipped enough with the study and learning of this matter. Therefore, the only thing before we decide the issue is that we should go thoroughly into the matter. Another question is that the rule is very clearly laid down under our Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business. It is Rule 170 which status as follows : Except where the breach of privilege is committed in the actual view of the House or of a Committee, the House shall at some proper stage of the proceedings before the sentence is passed give an opportunity to the persons charged to be heard in explanation or exculpation of the offence complained against him". Here what the House can do immediately as moved by the Member is only in the case where a breach of privilege has been committed in the actual view of the House. Apart from justice even from common sense there is a rule that this House will not proceed immediately to pass judgement and make a decision to punish any person charged without hearing his explanation or exculpation of the offence complained against him.

        Sir, we as Members are very sensitive about our functions, our duties or position but at the same time we should also be aware of the functions and duties and rights of others. The duties, rights and privileges of the members, who as the guardian of liberty, freedom and democracy to which ideal we are also here committed', are to serve and promote that liberty, freedom and democracy. Therefore we should not be too sensitive and move too hurriedly to come in confrontation with the Press. As a matter of fact, we should all be conscious of that common objective of encouraging freedom, preserving freedom, liberty and democracy. With these few words Sir, I, inspite of my serious doubts, would commend that the Privilege Committee should go thoroughly into the matter and we should get all the benefit from their findings.

Prof. M.N. Majaw : On a point of clarification, Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I ask the Minister to clarify on two points in which his certain clarification was not very clear, one is with regard.

Mr. Speaker : How can you seek clarification when you are the main mover of the motion? It is the duty of the Hon'ble Minister to seek clarification from you.

Prof. M.N. Majaw : On the point raised by the Minister

(Voices ............ No, no, no. )

Mr. Speaker : Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh. We will close the matter before we adjourn for lunch. Let us try to finish it.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker, Sir, in supporting the motion, I want to say only a few words. The Members who have spoken before me have already given their opinion on whether the question which has been raised before us is really a question of privilege of the House and also of the Members Mr. Speaker, Sir, in my opinion it is really clearly a question of privilege of the Members and who have been referred in the publications and also of the House including the Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the publication in question is before the public as the paper has been given to the public at large. The question is now for the public to reflect, to reflect on something which has been done or has not been done by the Member of this Legislature or by the Minister or by the Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it reflects because this publication as claimed by the mover is not true. The untrue information has been published and has been thrown to the public. So the wrong publication has reflected on the Member of this House and the Speaker.

Mr. Speaker : When it reflects the Speaker, it reflects the whole House.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : So, this wrong publication of a matter which is not done by any member or by the House or by the Speaker is an attempt of an evil design on the part of the publisher and editor of this paper. It is insinuating, provocative and also defamatory. Sir, if any person or paper publishes the name of any person or Member and does not put the full name but only the initials by which he is known even then it implies that he is the person intended. So, there is no question of a doubt. As has been said, the question of Mr. B.B. or R.S. and Mr. R.S. Lyngdoh is very clear and there is no other R.S. in this except Mr. R.S. Lyngdoh who is the Speaker of this House. There is no other B.B. (Voice .........Yes, yes, B.B. Shallam) (  Laughter ) Mr. Speaker Sir, it is very clear that there is no question of doubt. Another point Sir, which the hon. Member from Nongpoh has referred is in regard to many rulings of the Court and expression of famous writers that the question of privilege may not be allowed after the publisher who committed such a breach of privilege has tendered apology to the Member concerned. But the matter should be brought to the House and then later on if he apologises the matter ends there. Of course there is a rule to be followed though this House has not adopted any but we can adopt any rules that are being followed in the country. Therefore, Sir, suitable action should be taken against the publisher and the editor of the Implanter.

        So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I do not propose to go into the details of the privilege motion against the same publisher, but suffice it to say that the editor and publisher of the Implanter  be taken action as suggested by the hon. Mover. I therefore support the privilege motion.

Ruling by the Speaker

Mr. Speaker : We have had a lot of interesting discussion on all the three motions of privileges. But I want to make certain remarks regarding ourselves. I do not think that to be sensitive is wrong so long we are alive in this world. We must be sensitive. But to be conscientious of the duty and privilege is a credit to each and every man. Unless you are conscientious of the privileges of the House, there will be no end of the controversy between one Member and another even on any trifling matter, and I do not think we are new also. We are quite old in the sense that this Assembly has established its own tradition which we have inherited from the days of the British regime. From that time when India got its independence till today we are no longer new. We are well established in a well established democratic country. But so far as the three privilege motions are concerned, they relate I mean the matter is connected with the relationship between this House and the members of the Press. I have on many occasions made certain remarks that the members of the Press are always to be considered as the members of the third Chamber and each and every member of this House is expected to be polite and dignified especially in the deliberations of the House. Each and every Pressman is also expected to observe the concept of journalistic etiquette and politeness. I find myself in a very tight corner today as the two privilege motions are concerned with the Members of the House and the remarks made in the paper which are to yet be examined thoroughly. Whether the remarks really affect the privileges of the Members of this House or not has to be examined very thoroughly and these two motions, as suggested by the Minister for Parliamentary Affairs, be referred to the Privilege Committee. As far as the third one is concerned, I think all the hon. Members will agree that it puts me in a tight corner. Many discussions have centered round one question whether this news item has affected the dignity of the Speaker or not. In the first place, as I said, it appears that the editor is lacking the understanding of the journalistic etiquette and politeness. If you read the contents which most of the members say that it is the only question mark you will find that such a case has never taken place anywhere in any parliamentary democracy. the question mark in the last line in a commanding tone implies what Mr. R.S. Lyngdoh has got to say now with high and mighty attitude. These are my observations. I have not given my ruling. But the high and mighty attitude of the editor to give an order to anybody, to link up one issue with another is really highly regretted. But as I said since the motion here proposes two penalties, I can tell the hon. Member of this House that penalty can be given only once and not twice for one offence. Even when a case is established that it is a breach of privilege I think two penalties cannot be given to the same person. Hence as I said, in order to prove whether the case is a breach of privilege of the Speaker and of the whole House or not, it has to be examined carefully by the Privilege Committee and I would appeal to all the Members of the Press that they should always co-operate to see that the proceedings are correctly reported. I do understand their difficulties. Sometimes without intention something wrong appeared in the newspapers. Yesterday I was shocked when I saw in the paper as Prisoners of War (laughter). Actually they are not. Actually, this is not the intention of the editor, it is a mere printing mistake. But if there is really a printing mistake or if there is any wrong report they should take the earliest opportunity to correct and to apologise, if necessary. So I refer all the three cases to the Privilege Committee to examine and report within 28th February, 1973.

        Now there is another case which Shri F.K. Mawlot wants to raise a motion of privilege against the behaviour of the Executive Engineer, Nongstoin Division. According to the convention established in Parliament, I have asked Government to send a report. The report has already been received. In this connection, the Hon. Speaker, Lok Sabha observed 'Everyday there are so many things happening in the country involving people including M.P.s.  But the privileges of M.P.s, extend only to matters concerning the House. But inspite of that, whenever such things happen, I take that representation and send it to Government even if it concerns a matter unconnected with the functioning of the House, as such when that version comes I give it to the Member".

        In this connection, I received the representation from the Member concerned and the same was forwarded to Government. Government have already sent the reply. A copy of the reply will be sent to the hon. Member concerned.

        So far as the question whether it involves a breach of privilege is concerned, I entirely agree with a recent ruling of the Hon'ble Speaker, Lok Sabha, who observed as follows :-

        "When there are matters not connected with the House, even though the happening of such things is unfortunate, the remedy is at the official level. So far as the rights of this House are concerned, the difference between one M.P. and a citizen is very narrow, so far as incidents outside the House are concerned. We have settled ......... that a member could mention it, I could send it to the Minister and the reply could come. But if he thinks that it is a matter of privilege, I do not think it is a matter of privilege ........ the M.P.s are not above the law ...... an M.P. outside the House is just an ordinary citizen like any other citizen. If he is prevented from performing his duties of the House, that is a different matter. If he is moving outside, he is subject to the law and subject to other remedies available. He can have the same remedies as are available to an ordinary citizen".

        In so far as the question of privilege is concerned, an hon. Member of the House was involved with a high ranking officer of Government. But the incident took place outside the House, where the hon. Member was not performing the duties of the House. Hence the incident can be considered on personal level as a private citizen. Hence as soon as the report of Government is communicated to the hon. Member concerned, the matter shall be considered as closed.

( Motions )

        The next item in today's list of business is Motion No.5. Prof. Majaw to move.

Prof. M.N. Majaw : Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I, with the permission of the House, withdraw this motion No.5 and bring motion No.6 which also stands in my name.

Mr. Speaker :  Yes.

( The Speaker left the Chamber and the Deputy Speaker took the Chair )

Prof. M.N. Majaw :  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I move that this Assembly do now take up for discussion the employment policy of the Government of Meghalaya at all levels, particularly with respect to -

  1. the absorption of all tribal employees now serving under the Government of Assam into the Government of Meghalaya.

  2. creating new avenues of employment for all un-employed youths in the Garo Hills and the Khasi and Jaintia Hills Districts.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : Motion moved.

Prof. M.N. Majaw : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have phrased this motion in such a manner as to take up the entire employment of the Government of Meghalaya particularly with regard to the two points that I have raised below. In the first place, by way of introduction, I would like to point out and remind this House, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that in the days when we fought for a separate State, our intention was to secure an equal place for the hill people of this region in this free democratic country of India. We received the whole-hearted and unstinted unanimous support of the over-whelming majority of the people of this area in the struggle for Statehood. No one of us, no group of persons, no political party can claim its privilege or as its sole owner the victory in the matter of Statehood. We gained a State equal to any States in India because of our people. It is sometimes likely or irrelevantly mentioned by some power that a full State was secured by this political party or another party. This is totally wrong, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We got a full-fledged hill State primarily because of the people. But now having secured this equal status for our people, we are faced with the problem of implementing the big promises, the big hopes, the grand hopes that we placed before our people. Now the most basic requirement of a man is to live. Other things come later. Education, even the wearing of clothes and shelter come later. The first basic necessity is to live and in order to live one must have the means of livelihood and to secure the means of livelihood, one must have employment. Now if this is denied, if employment is denied to our people, we are not only depriving them of certain luxuries or comforts or certain additional amenities, but we are depriving them of the right to live in this State which belongs to them. I have spoken in such a manner because I would very much want the Government to appreciate this fact a little more seriously than before. We have before us the fact that large number of tribal employees of the Government of Assam who are faced with the threat or fear of having  to go down to the plains of Assam when the capital of Assam is shifted temporarily  from Shillong to Gauhati. I will not enter into the arithmetic or mathematics of it. There is a great deal of new methods also in drawing the total number of persons who will be so affected. It is certainly a fact that the number of persons who will be affected will run to hundreds whether 600 or 500. It is a principle that is involved apart from the fact that these are our own people and then it is primarily the concern and responsibility of the Government to look after them and provide them employment. It is also one of the directive principles of the Constitution. On the other hand, these are also the faithful Government servants who were called upon by the party which was spear-heading the movement to go on strike, to hold hartals and abstain from work. Their families cast votes to choose those persons who would fight for a separate State and to reject those who were not supporters of a separate State. Young men were volunteers, their brothers and sisters were volunteers for the Statehood movement. Now each and every one of them has become the responsibility of the Government of Meghalaya primarily. It is not so much a question of 500 or 600 persons it is their families that are involved. Each person being bread earner for a family of 6, 7, 8 or 9 and thus mounting to at least 4,000 or 3,500 persons. I have no idea of Mathematics, but certainly they are running in thousands of tribal people who will be affected. We know in the Brahmaputra Valley of Assam, there is a strong move for the immediate implementation of the Official Language Act. Once that Act is implemented, all these tribal employees who are ignorant of both the language and the script of Assamese will become illiterate overnight and if the mother State has thrown them out to another State, certainly that will create the danger and difficulty to these 500 or 600 employees of the Government of Assam.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : The discussion will be resumed after lunch. The House stands adjourned till 2 p.m.

        The House reassembled at 2 p.m. in the Assembly Chamber with the Deputy Speaker in the Chair.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : Now I request Mr. Majaw to continue.

Prof. M.N. Majaw : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was trying to point out to the Government the importance of the change of heart. Many Press Notes have been issued, many Press Releases have been issued by the Government to indicate that the Government is aware of his problem and that it is making special efforts to give employment to our tribal people. But I regret to inform this House that despite the very nice sounding Press Releases issued by the Government, I have yet to see those 80 or 90 persons out of 500 or 600 appointed in the Secretariat or in the Heads of Departments. The Government makes the offer and then say "tomorrow or day after tomorrow I will give you employment. We will provide for you". But the fact remains that , either due to officialdom or redtapism, these persons have not yet been able to actually sit in these offices. The Government has announced that about 80 or 90 persons will be employed and we are still waiting for them to actually occupy their seats in the Secretariat or in the Heads of Departments. Now Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was trying to point out in the morning how not only these persons but even their families will be affected and it is also this fact which I would like to point out to the Government : they may give employment to 80 or 90 persons out of 500 or 600; but what about the remaining persons? As I understand, 400 and odd persons have still to be employed and they, plus their families, are faced with only two prospects : either of going down to Gauhati to be stung by mosquitoes the whole night, live in the filthiest condition of Gauhati, sweat the life-long day and the life-long night and perhaps hunt everywhere for accommodation and then face the prospects of being little rate every now and then because of ignorance of the language which is the official language of the State of Assam and that will be having a repercussion  upon the entire family, each and every member who has to depend upon that particular employee of the Government of Assam. Now, Sir, two arguments were adduced by the Government in a meeting held in the Chamber of the Chief Minister  to which some of us from the Opposition were invited; there were  Mr. Maham Sing, myself , Bah Hoping and the Cabinet of Meghalaya  One of the reasons adduced was the shortage of money. I consulted the Home Secretary about employment of 500 or 600 people and he said that it will amount to about  Rs.18 or 20 lakhs per year. Of course, it is a large sum of money to and we have been complaining in the way of expenditure, but twenty lakhs of rupees out of Rs.13.60 crores is not a very big sum of money. Money should not be, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, the criterion by which we are to accept or reject our tribal people. The first responsibility lies with the Government of India. When the Government of India in its good sense, thought it fit to set up an absolutely separate State within the  Union of India- a full fledged State- it certainly  had calculated all the economics of setting up such State. Can you, for a moment, imagine  this shortage in this particular State to be on the way of valid, reasonable and humanitarian grounds; can you, for a moment , imagine that the Government of India would be failing in its responsibilities to fill  up what is lacking in this State? What are these financial Bills for, like the Appropriation Bills which are also called the Misappropriation Bills, the Contingency Bills being brought before the Assembly except for one thing- money coming from the Centre. We have a very small revenue  and it could be very much bigger if the Government follows some of the  advice given by us. Anyway 90 percent of the finance comes from the Centre. If that is the case, why not this Government persuade the Government of India to bear the additional expenditure of another Rs.20 Lakhs. As a matter of fact , we have just passed the Supplementary Demands for Rs.1,32,00,00, i.e., Rs.132 Lakhs. Certainly, if a case is  made in Delhi it can be obtained from the Government of India. I am always reminded Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, of the way in which the Government of Nagaland secures money from the Government of India. I remember on one occasion how the Finance Minister of Nagaland, in the year 1968 when some of us were there in Delhi demanding a separate  State, went to see Shri Moraji Desai ( as you know this person is  very tough nut to crack) and demanded six crores of rupees. The Finance Minister of Nagaland was asked to "come tomorrow" and "tomorrow" but on the third "tomorrow" he challenged Desai saying that he had come from a far place and that "I am not here to waste my time. Tell me point blank, will you give the money or not and if you do not give I know how to take it out "

        Mr. Desai said that it would be very difficult to say and the Finance Minister walked out of the room. Then Mr. Desai called him back saying "Alright" we can  agree to four crores" but the Finance Minister sad "No". Six crores or nothing". And he got the six crores of rupees by standing on his right that as a constituent member of the Union, the State of Nagaland requires six crores of rupees. He got it firmly and toughly and with a very convincing stand he was able to secure six crores. Are we to understand that this Government is hesitant to ask for 20 lakhs of rupees from the Government of India in order to look after the 500 or 600 employees involving about 3000 or 4000 people of this area. Are we to understand that this Government is to go to the Government of India with a begging bowl and say, "Namaste hujur, please do this, please do that' to try to get Rs 20 lakhs from the Government of India. Cannot this Government put up this tough stand and demand as a right from the Government of India. Since these people are our own Indian people; they have to be looked after by this Government of Meghalaya. Certainly we can expect that from our own State as it the case with the State of Maharashtra or Gujarat that this Government also can secure not 20 lakhs of rupees but more from the Government of India.

        Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, we in the Opposition insist that all the 600 or 500 for God also knows how many tribals employees are there under the Government of Assam and every single one of them should be absorbed in other Government of Meghalaya. And if the Government will take a decision in principle we in the Opposition are prepared to indicate the lines by which all the 500 or 500, may be even 5000 can be employed by this Government of Meghalaya. All that is required, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, is a decision in principle. Let the Government take the decision in principle that there will be no tribal employee under the Government of Assam who will suffer for want of employment in the Government of Meghalaya and there will be no tribal employee of the Government of Assam who shall suffer for want of  knowledge of the language of Assamese in the plains of Assam. As I said, this morning, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, if this mother State which gives birth, nourishes, cherishes  these 600 or 500 people can reject its own children, can we expect better treatment from the Government of the other State which has no blood relationship, no racial relationships and no cultural relationship with our people who are under pressure to accept and implement Assamese as the official language of the State. So we insist that the principle should be at least accepted today. Once the principle is decided its implementation will be by all of us in the Opposition. We are not devoid of brain or devoid of imagination. We would suggest to the Government the ways by which all of them and many more can be employed by the Government of Meghalaya. But unfortunately, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, when we come to the second part of this motion viz., creating new avenues of employment for all the unemployed youths in the Garo Hills and the Khasi Hills and Jaintia Hills Districts, our hearts are filled with grief. I remember in the last session , I had the occasion Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, to refer to the unusually large proportion of officers from outside the State and some of the hon. Members who are Ministers of the Government took exception to my remarks that I was trying to undermine the structure of the State  and its security because some of the officers may reign overnight and go away to Punjab or Delhi or to U.P. I was even asked to apologise, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, privately for the remarks I had made because overnight some of these officers may go away. That is why we who had done so much  in the olden days to help as mouth piece of the public in the Hill State movement are not getting employment in the State. We shall in reply say that this headache is not ours its the headache of the Government. Why appoint them? There was a time, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, before we create this  furors in the Assembly that all the important posts in the Government of Meghalaya were occupied by the people not of  our sister States but of the States thousands of miles away who have come to this State only to earn their fortune. For example, an I.A.S. officer would say, I have  a career to fulfill. I will go to any State in the country, I will fulfill my career. Where is the heart of the tribal? Only the tribal officers will understand  the  heart of the tribal. So we must have in our heart that feeling - deep and sincere officers who have the feeling for the people who can give  equal status to  our people. And when we are here only to represent our people to come up - we were called backward ; we are called scheduled tribe and we have been put in the list as being scheduled. We should  be ashamed but such is the nature of circumstances. So many of our people are I.A.S officers but why all the posts are held by the people  from other States? Our I.A.S. officers are there in Bombay, in Bihar, in Tripura and Bengal. I know a Khasi Boy who is the Deputy Commissioner in the District of West Bengal. I know the reply from the  Treasury  benches. They will say there is a proportion there  is a percentage and that we are allowed only 50 percent of our local people under the I.A.S. rules. May I ask the Government, through you, Sir, what percentage do we have today? Is it 50 percent, is it 40 percent, is it 30 percent or is it even 20 percent? No, the percentage of tribal officers from the I.A.S. Cadre who are rotting in other States in India is very high. But this Government does not have the courage to invite hem to come to the State. They can certainly demand this from the Government of India that out own people will rule our own State. But what happens today. With due respect to the Treasury Benches, with due respect to the Ministers, many of the Ministers have not had the courage to ask them to come  and rule the State. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, willy nilly and inadvertently they have to appoint the Secretaries and when the Secretaries put up the file they have only to ditto by saying that I am inexperienced. That Secretary is a man who is brought here to earn his bread. What does he know about the culture about the most ancient tribal culture. He had  no mind to live for our people he lives only to get his daily bread from the State. There are hundreds, and thousands of educated unemployed Garo  youths in Tura. When Ministers go to Tura and when they face the question from the unemployed youth, that they cannot find employment, the reply was the avenues for employment are blocked. Of course, one is to make money if one is to have this or that. So many things can be  done. Sometimes in order to get a humble hajur-servant it is better to get non-tribals from outside because the tribals will revolt. Under the tribal officers you cannot do anything you like in anyway in any Ministry or in any other department. You have to be cautious lest he may talk about you or divulge your activities in the local papers. He may expose you. Therefore, it is better to import an outside hand for the post, he will be suitable to our personal purposes. This is what is happening today Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir. I am giving an example. Yesterday I was prevented by your ruling which I graciously accepted that I could not raise anything in connection with the Assam Cements  and with your kind ruling  I think I can move it today in view of the fact that we are talking about unemployment. Here is the advertisement in the statement of 29th October from the National Industrial Development Corporation Limited advertising for the post of Company Secretary in a Government Cement Factory in Meghalaya. To my humble knowledge there is only well known well established Government Cement factory. As I said , Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, this Assam Cements Factory is a Government of Meghalaya undertaking but it is in the  name of that undertaking so appropriate and when actually Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, the undertakers are only a few  people. These people bound the body, chopped a coffin, hammered the nails and bury the coffin. I submit Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir,  what this Government is doing. It is performing the task of an undertaker that our people hope and dream but they want a Company Secretary for what purpose Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I hope it is for general administration. There is today a tribal who is working as an Administrative Officer of this Factory. He is doing an excellent job. So if you are to appoint a Company Secretary, it means that he will be removed. This is a great nefarious plot to remove him and appoints some body else from outside who will   have the heart of the Hills. Not only that, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. On the 11th of December, there was an interview in Delhi for three posts and that is for the Managing Director, Financial Controller and then for this Company Secretary. I submit that there are many young, active, educated, intelligent, imaginative and excellent unemployed young tribal men among  the tribals here in the Hills and they could easily occupy and manage if they are appointed in any of these posts. But now who is this Company Secretary? Today we have already one Administrative Officer who is doing excellent job, though of course he has a clash with the persons there who are anti tribals. That is the sin he has committed and may be guilty of . On the 21st November there was again an interview for the posts of Accountants in Assam Cements and four people were appointed against these posts. Out of these four, three were from outside the State, they are non- tribals, and one has been given promotion from below due to the great pressure from the persons and Union. But Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, three persons of one community, why is there a special preference only for that one particular community? Three persons of that community were appointed and the excuse given by the Secretary, Industries  was that they have passed B.Com and a man to be appointed as accountant must pass B.Com  in the Gazette of Meghalaya at page 498 the Secretary, Selection Board, Government of Meghalaya advertised for the posts of Accounts and what is the qualification? It is Pre University Arts or science. According to the Selection Board, Pre University on Arts or Science  is sufficient for the posts of Accountant, then why this B. Com for the same posts? The excuse is that they could bring in somebody else from outside the deny the right of our tribal people to employment. Then we have also examples of appointment in the A.Gs Office where BAs in Economics are appointed a accountants and there are so many  Accountants who have not passed B.Com but are sent for Accounting to Nagaland, Dimapur and in other parts of Meghalaya and they were doing a good job. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, why this special qualification of B.Com, does it mean only to help these three particular persons to secure employment. Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, as far as the Assam Cements is concerned, we in the Opposition are determined that we shall fight tooth and nail  and the Government has got a test of turning people in the lock out not in the lock up. There were strikes, hartals and gheraos going on in a large scale for importing people to control our accounts. Accounts means money and  the Assam Cements is a commercial institution, it is not a charitable institution. It is a  commercial business run on commercial lines. How is it possible that people from outside are to appointed as accountants when there are local people to man the posts. They have already had a Special Officer in accounts  and also Cost Accountants who are from outside. There are already  Accountants  in all from outside. Now the question is that these three persons are also from somewhere and not from the State. If you imagine the accumulated accounts in Assam Cements, you will  find that it has incurred  a loss of Rs.60,000 per day. That is the loss estimated in the Assam Cements Factory when it closed down and there is bungling in the matter of account in the Assam Cements and so it is what it is today. Certainly here is a great example where our Government has given the advertisement for the posts which are already occupied. It is only a matter of change of nomenclature from the Administrative Officer to a Company Secretary. We have already got an Administrative Officer, Financial Controller and a Special Officer for accounts and also a Cost Accountant. We have got also a Managing Director and a Director-in-charge. Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, somebody goes to Delhi, God only knows that somebody else in Delhi and God alone knows for what purpose they are going to Delhi. Whether it is for appointing persons from outside. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I feel that this unemployment problem of our own Hill People should be fully considered.

        Let not this Government think that this fellow always talks a lot, shouts a lot. Let him run shouting. But I must sound a note of warning Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir. From 1961-71 what is the increase in the population of the tribals? Scheduled tribes - the percentage of increase is 27.4 and the Scheduled Castes  rose to 208.2 percent out of 100 per cent and those non-tribals not classified as Scheduled Castes, 60.5 per cent. The population today Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, in Shillong is 99,000 non-tribals and 51,000 tribals. Of these 99,000 non-tribals, 50,000 belong to the silent invasion from Bangladesh only in the town of Shillong. In Laitumkhrah, where I live there are certainly about 35,000.

Prof. P. Garnett Marbaniang : How do you know?

Prof. M.N. Majaw : It is a fact.

Shri F.K. Mawlot : On a point of order if any Member wants to speak he should address the Chair.

Prof. P.G. Marbaniang : I say how do you know?

Mr. Deputy Speaker : Kindly address the Chair.

Prof. M.N. Majaw : This is a very big question before us. We have 99,000 non-tribals and only 51,000 tribals in Shillong. The problem before the Government especially those hon. Members of the House who represent those areas, will be the problem of unemployment. The hon. Member from Mawkhar Constituency where the majority are non tribals, goes to one particular office with 4 or 5 candidates seeking employment because they have supported him in the last General Election thinking that he will be supported again in the future election. Have we the courage to understand our people, have we the love for our people ? This is a crucial point. That is how they have won by a slender margin in those places where the non-tribals are the majority. They will have to accede to their wishes otherwise goodbye to their seats next time. These are practical things. Of course, the ruling party will be ruling for another 5 years or so but I am thinking of 100 years hence to fulfill the needs of our people who have elected us.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : How many minutes more will you take to finish your speech?

Prof. M.N. Majaw : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, in elaborating all these things before the House, it is not a matter which concerns 5 minutes but it is concerned with eternity. Where is the eternal love for our people ? Under what condition they live today? Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I perfectly remember the occasion in the Central Library in which our beloved Prime Minister inaugurated the N.E.C. There was one officer, who is an outsider who spoke much that this is the regional language of the hills people. Whereas we the tribal people had been exploited and have no protection in our State. There were the Chief Commissioner, Arunachal Pradesh and many top officials from other parts of this region. Our Chief Minister has said that this is the official language of the State Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, there is no official language today. If the ruling party will carry home with this slogan then, Sir, I don't know what shall be the fate of our people after 20 years. Again Sir, the Government has restricted the growth of population of our State by resorting to imposition of the Family Planning measures and some sterilization methods. This will decrease our tribal population rapidly as they were reducing our family so that our race will disappear from the surface of the earth. Who will be responsible for this ? The ruling party is smiling.

Shri Edwingson Bareh ( Minister, Agriculture ) : Nobody will be responsible for this and if anybody smiles no one can prevent him.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : I would request the hon. Member to confine himself to the subject matter of the Motion.

Prof. M.N. Majaw : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I am led to say that employment prospect of our people in this State is very bleak so long as the present state of affairs is allowed to continue. But only when the party in power can change their heart for the country, then only we can say that this is our land where we can live and not like beggars in our own homes. But Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, who on earth can bring about that sentiment in the hearts of our rulers today. Why should I agree with them who cannot safeguard the rights and interests of their own people. Instead they want to forsake their own people for the sake of bringing the non-tribals from every part of the world. How can we pull on with such a state of affairs. All that I stand here is for my people, for their future who will be the rulers of tomorrow so that they will realise that there were Khasis, in the Khasi Hills, Garos in the Garo Hills and Jaintias in the Jaintia Hills in the past. These are the changes which I welcome heartily. Therefore, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I may boldly say that our unemployed tribal youths would have a say in the administration of this State in times to come. For example, the police force of our State is taking the entire battalion from Assam. Why can not they set up our own battalion as was done by the Nagaland Government for the benefit of our own people ? Unfortunately, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, nothing has been done in that connection. I have here with me a letter from a poor and humble boy from Nongpoh. As a mater of fact, I have insisted on the Member from Nongpoh to raise it. Anyway, this is the letter from the boy. He was refused appointment in the police force because he lacks half an inch in height. Over and above his physical fitness, he has passed all the tests and has also passed Class VIII. He has also passed the examination and he went for the medical examination. A copy of his original letter is here with me. The name of  the humble boy was Rundul Makri from Nongpoh. On account of the fact that he lacks half an inch he was refused an appointment. This is a sheer partiality on the part of the Police Department and if appointment is to be conferred on the poor boy at all is only on payment of some bribe. Now, if this Government want to recruit personnel of our own, they should not take any Battalion from Assam. They should have started a battalion of our own to be used especially in Meghalaya in order to man the frontiers on the border with Bangladesh with our own Force.

        Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I would like to come to the Transport Department. There was an agitation from the people to ply more services in every motorable part of this State like Nongstoin, Mawhati and Smit by taking up and starting our own Corporation. If we can have proper buses running in the Hills all along the trouble routes, why can we not have a bus service to go to Mawhati, Smit and Nongstoin. I know, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, there were about 12 new routes which when taken over by our own Transport Corporation will give employment to more than 300 people. Next is about starting our own Higher Secondary Education Board. Even today, we have the need to start our own Secondary Education Board and this perhaps will provide appointment opportunities to about 400 or 500 people. I had a personal contact and discussion with the Secretary, N.E.C. to reserve posts as far as practicable for the unemployed tribals of this State. So far as this N.E.C. is concerned, I would request the Minister incharge to kindly check up. Because of the fact that the North Eastern Council have appointed 10 people till date. They have appointed 9 persons and all of them belong to one community who are non-tribals. This was done by the Secretary of the North Eastern Council, and only because we persisted and telephoned to him on the 27th and 28th of November that he appointed one tribal. The North Eastern Council is supposed to cover the whole of the North Eastern areas but it seems that only one particular community is getting the opportunity. In this connection I will cite an example that even Maulan Bhasani demanded that there should be greater Bengal, so the formation of the North Eastern Council would be as an instrument of greater Bengal. Our hearts grieve at what is happening in our State. ( Bell Rang )

        There is a proposal to absorb all the 500 or 600 Assam Government employees and there is one letter which we have placed before the House the letter written by the Home Secretary to all the Secretaries to the Government of Meghalaya, the letter was dated 27th July and it is confidential letter. It is said here that those who are on the verge of retirement may not be considered as the period involved in their case will be short. Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I only request the Government not to overlook our hills people who are required to go to Gauhati in their old age. Why did the Government issue a confidential note to all Secretaries to the Government of Meghalaya not to accept all those who are about to retire. Is that the attitude of the Government of Meghalaya? I request the Government to withdraw this letter and to accept all these 500 or 600 Assam Government employees and we on our part will stop all demonstrations and demands which are of course the birth right of the hills people in the matter of employment.

Shri W. Cecil Marak : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I would like to participate in this motion. We have 2 things before us to consider. One is about the unemployment problem in our State. Just now, the hon. member from Mawhati has spoken about the unemployment problem in our State, numbering about 500 or 600 and I would like to speak a few words about these employees who are already serving under the Government of Assam. Therefore, the Government should at least see and consider their grievances so that they also can be absorbed in the Government of Meghalaya according to their cadre or their status. But it should not by any means ignore the rights of the youths of Meghalaya for entering into employment. There are so many young men and women who are hankering after employment and unemployed youths are there in all the three Districts of Meghalaya demanding employment, whereas, Government cannot provide suitable employment for them also. I would like to speak about the unemployment problem in Garo Hills but I do not want to make myself too much communal. I would like to speak about Agriculture Department. Agricultural Inspectors have been appointed in the District Agricultural Office at Tura and out of these employed only one Garo got the post. That one person, I do not remember. He has not only joined the post and all the posts are filled up by our brethren, I do not envy. But there should be justice and justice should be maintained in the administration because of lack of justice our youths are suffering and are becoming frustrated. I request the Government to see that in the matter of employment, they should deal according to justice. Our Chief Minister also said in his statement that the Government is going to eradicate injustice, poverty, ignorance and diseases but as I find that injustice also creeps in. So, I would like to confide myself to the motion brought by the hon. Member from Mawhati that persons who are already serving in Assam are really facing difficulty and those persons who are not getting employment are also facing more serious difficulties. I would request the Government to see and consider seriously these two aspects of the matter.

*Shri Reidson Momin : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am very much concerned and deeply moved by the remarks passed by the hon. Member from Mawhati. If this is the attitude he takes towards the employment problem in our country or in this State of Meghalaya and if he out-rightly condemns the Government like this, then we are not going to reach anywhere. Today we have a responsible Government. We have now this Government and we have achieved this State of Meghalaya only the other day. We cannot expect too much from this newly born Government. I know, as a responsible Government, today we are taking proper steps and due consideration is being given. I am sure the Government is as concerned as we are in respect of employment and development of the State. Now, regarding the employment problem or rather the fate of the Government employees who are still with the Government of Assam, I must inform my friend that the Government is taking proper steps to absorb them or to rehabilitate them as far as possible. I know for sure they are taking up certain training schemes and they are trying to create some posts to absorb them and thus eliminate their miseries and difficulties. But while trying to absorb these employees, we should also not jeopardise the unemployment problem of the State. The hon. Member from Mawhati said that we should request the Government of India to grant at least Rs. 20,00,000 to rehabilitate these people or to provide jobs for them. But only yesterday we have seen, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while we were trying to introduce the Appropriation File they have vehemently criticised the Government. If this is the way and if that is the way we behave ourselves, then we are not going to get anywhere. We should not try to draw the attention of the public and influence them just because we want to be prominent leaders but instead, I feel, it is the duty of all the M.L.A.s - 60 M.L.A.s. As of our Meghalaya State to solve the difficulties and to suggest constructive ways for doing things. It was also mentioned that a boy could not be absorbed in the police service just because he was half an inch short. But here,  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I should say, if a post has been created for a graduate and if an undergraduate comes up and complains that he should be absorbed as  he failed because of only a few marks, it will not be proper. This is not the way to criticise the Government.  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we should really think seriously for the future of our Government and for the welfare of our people. Today the Government of India is very much concerned about the improvement and development of this part of the country and that is why the Meghalaya State has been created to meet the aspirations and enthusiasm of our hill people and also to improve their conditions and work for their betterment. They have created 60 seats of this Meghalaya Legislative Assembly and it should be the duty of everyone of us to suggest to the Government how best to achieve the results for greater development of our State. It is not merely by shouting in this House or by drawing the attention of the public or by trying to instigate the unemployed people that we can do it but we should think seriously. We are responsible people. Otherwise, we should not be here today. We have been elected by the people to do good for the people and to the country as a whole. So, if today we say that by giving employment to the outsiders we are depriving the avenues for our own people, it is absurd. I should say that they have been brought to help us but not to monopolise or enslave us.  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to say that by bringing these outsiders, we are getting their experience and their guidance and we could learn from them. They will not be here permanently. They will be here only temporarily. Many of them have been brought on contract basis only so that we can replace them in a few months' or in a few years' time. If we say that by bringing these people from outside we are neglecting our own people and our own culture, I should say that we are making a great mistake. If we are confined to tribal customs only, I may say, yesterday my ancestors and my forefathers, were just naked and I do not know what would have been the position. But today, I am here with a suit and am wearing a tie. We are marching towards civilization and I should say, it will be very wrong to say that we are neglecting our own culture. So,  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we should be calm in our judgment and we should seriously think about the development of our country and should not merely criticise the Government and vehemently or right away condemn the Government. We should also appreciate the difficulties and short-comings of the Government because the State of Meghalaya has got very limited resources. But in order to augment our revenue, we should try to explore different avenues for different industries so that tomorrow or the day after we will be self sufficient and will be able to run the Government to the entire satisfaction or our people in the State.

Shri Ira Marak :  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to associate myself with the discussion on the motion moved by Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw. At the outset, I like to speak a few words by way of introduction before I come to the actual point. Our people have great expectation that with the emergence of the full-fledged State all our difficulties or problems would be completely solved. I feel that it is a wrong motion. Today, the demand of the people and also of  the leaders is not only for the right policy of the Government but also for quick and efficient implementation of those policies and quick results. We have innumerable problems requiring urgent actions. But we realise the fact that it is not possible on the part of the Government to provide solution of the problem overnight, no matter how much they may deserve.  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, now I am coming to the motion before the House and I would like to say that I cannot agree with the mover of the motion that all our tribal employees now serving under the Government of Assam should be absorbed under the Government of Meghalaya. It is a fact that there are various difficulties for our tribal employees after the shifting of the capital of Assam. There may be difficulties first of all with regard to accommodation and then come the difficulties of language and also there may be difficulties with regard to the maintenance of their establishments in cases where the husband is serving under the Government of Assam and the wife is serving under the Government of Meghalaya. I think our Government is fully aware of this fact.  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, now in the three districts of our State, i.e., Khasi Hills and Garo Hills there are our own tribal youths who are without employment. Now I do not know exactly how many people out of these 600 or 500 tribal employees have got employment under the Government of Meghalaya. But I have heard that there are more than 400 tribal employees who are still under the Government of Assam. Now here is a pertinent question for us. The average length of services of these 400 or 500 employees before their retirement will be 15 or 20 years. Therefore, our tribal young people who are at present without job will be blocked for 15 years before getting employment. So,  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a very important point in my opinion and because of which I cannot support this motion.

        Now I am coming to the second point. After getting our full-fledged State every one of us desires to serve in our own district and in our own State. It may be a good thing but it is very difficult and not possible on the part of the Government to absorb all the tribal employees as we desired.  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as stated earlier there may  be difficulties for our tribal employees in respect of accommodation and also language and all that but it is not only the tribal employees who will be under the Government of Assam but there are other non-Assamese speaking people. These employees also will be under the Government of Assam and will not be free from the difficulties of accommodation and language. They have to serve and live in the plain areas of Assam and will have to solve these difficulties by any means. Therefore, our tribal employees also can manage in the same way to solve these problems as other non-Assamese employees do. Now,  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the last but not the least point is that when we are discussing the unemployment problem which is the subject matter of the employment policy of the Government we find that only the middle class people are unemployed. The middle class constitutes a section of the society where its Members have some education for earning their livelihood. It may be that type of education as is imparted in the Higher Secondary Schools or University or professional education. This class excludes on the other hand, those who depend for livelihood on landed property, stocks, shares and other sources of unearned income. So we find this middle class includes the intellectual section of the community.  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to say frankly and I feel that the unemployment problem is likely to have dangerous consequences in our State. Widespread economic distress of this particular section will increase the number of discontented young people who will apply their brains to seeking a radical solution of their distress. Therefore, no Government can view this possibility with equanimity. With these few words  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I resume my seat.

*Shri D.N. Joshi :  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to participate in the discussion on the motion moved by the hon. Member from Mawhati. The motion is for taking up the discussion of unemployment problem in the State. It is a well known fact Sir, that the State exists for removal of the difficulties of the people and our Government is very much committed to that as announced by the Hon'ble Chief Minister on the floor of the House that the Government stands for removal of ignorance, poverty and disease in the State of Meghalaya. Then comes the question of unemployment. It is a very serious problem for the State of ours. Creation of the State of Meghalaya is for solving the problem of unemployment which our educated youths are facing. They are looking for an employment either under this Government, the Government of Assam or elsewhere. So what I feel now is that when they have a State of their own they should also have a say in the administration of the State for creating avenues for earning their livelihood. Now with the creation of the State of Meghalaya it is natural that the minds of the educated unemployed youths will be on this point which has been agitating their minds that even after the creation of this State of ours the educated and unemployed young men and young girls are still going without employment. Now the question which poses before the House through this Motion moved by the hon. Member, Mr. M.N. Majaw is how to absorb all the employees working under the Government of Assam in the services of the Government of Meghalaya. Now, Sir, there are cases where the employees were not absorbed in Meghalaya and the entire family will be disrupted due to dislocation of the earning members. In this case Sir, we have to bear in mind that in some other States of North Eastern India there are people from outside the State i.e., people from Punjab, U.P., Maharashtra, Tamilnadu, Kerala and elsewhere who have come here searching for jobs. But I do not know how people here in Meghalaya find difficulties in searching for jobs. I mean those who are already in services under the Government of Assam to go to Gauhati to serve under the Government of Assam. Again, Sir, I have not yet come across any policy enunciated by the Government of Assam that non tribals or tribals from outside the State of Assam, as it stands today, will be debarred or retrenched in case they do not know the official language of that State. I do not think they will close the door for the unemployed educated youths of our State in entering into Government services and other avenues of employment that are already in hand. The problem of unemployment is a colossal one. We have to explore other avenues for creating employment opportunities to our educated unemployed youths whose number runs in thousands. We can take up establishment of cement factories as the hon. Member, Prof. M.N. Majaw has already suggested. We can create our own Transport Corporation; we can take up new routes and we can have the Board of Secondary Education here in our own State, we can have a big giant farming enterprise to be taken up by the State Government in order to provide employment for our educated youths who are still unemployed. These things are interlinked. The unemployment problem has to be tackled and we have to find out other avenues. We have to start industries based on forests, we have to start big farmings as has been done in other countries where there are unemployment problems and we have also to encourage private sectors to take up industries where our unemployed youths can be absorbed and at the sane time we must encourage the people of Meghalaya here to have the spirit to go out and rule over other States also. I know there are people up till now from outside who are ruling over us; why not encourage that spirit in our people to come out and rule over other States also.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in supporting the motion I just want to point out certain matters. It seems that the Government is sleeping over these matters.  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the motion before the House is the question of absorption of the employees who are still with the Assam Government and also the problem of unemployment of the educated youths.  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Chief Minister has clearly stated from time to time, since the last four or five months, that the employees who are with the Government of Assam will be absorbed, batch by batch but uptil now the Government has not yet done the work and has not been able to absorb the employees. It seems that this Government has the sincerity to tackle the problem but it seems there is difficulty, there is a missing link somewhere in between the minds and activities of the Minister concerned and the officers who will implement the policy. With regard to unemployed people, the Government during the last session of the Assembly has made the position clear in respect of unemployed youths. That the Government is more inclined to consider the problem of the unemployed youths than to think of those who are already in service. So it seems Government is already willing to give employment and expand the Government machinery and activities. But it seems that there is something wrong in between the minds of the Government and those who are to implement the scheme. For instance, Sir, I want to mention here about the advertisement of the Government in the Police Department dated 22nd June, 1972 for appointment of 40 or 50 Constables in the Police Department, Special Branch (CID). The applications were received since 8th August 1972 but uptil now, over and above the promises that the Government will appoint Police Personnel from amongst the tribal people the Garos, Khasis and Pnars nothing has been done. The reason given is that many Police Personnel who have been taken from the Government of Assam do not belong to the tribal community. The Government has clearly stated that they are willing to give employment but Sir, for your information I have learnt that the majority of these applicants are tribal people. Yet the Government has done nothing on these applications. So it seems that there is a blockade somewhere between the minds of the Government machinery and the concerning Department.

        Another important point regarding the problem of employment is that there is shortage of nurses and doctors in the hospitals. In this regard I would like to point out that there are about 40 nurses who have passed in 1971 with the Government stipend - they have passed the general nursing and some have passed Mid-wifery also, but still they are not employed by the Government. There are vacancies in the hospitals, dispensaries, health centres, etc., all over the State and most of these centres are running without nurses.

        Another thing that I want to point out is about the Secretariat level. There is one order issued by the Secretary of one Department to the districts regarding appointment. In that order it was stated that appointment should not be confined only to the tribal people but also must be liberal by appointing non-tribals to some of the posts so that our State will be an example amongst the States of India. Here, there must be understanding and there may be some lapses on the part of the Department. So, while the Government is trying to solve this problem, it may also not know about all these things. I also would like to mention about the Agriculture Department. Agriculture Department is going to collapse because in the Agricultural Marketing wing there is not sufficient staff to run the Department though vacant posts are there but they did not fill up. In the last Budget Session this question was also discussed and Government had promised to look into the matter, but uptil now nothing has been done. The P.S.C. has approved more than 4 Officers for promotion, but it seems that at the Secretariat level they are sleeping over the matter and they are doing nothing about it. There is also no supplementary demand for promotion of these Officers and for filling up the posts in Class I and Class II. All these things Sir, have blocked the aims of our unemployed youths. There are cases where Officers are due for promotion but are not promoted. There are others who are going to be appointed after having passed the examination and interview and their names have been listed, but they are not being appointed so far. There is a blockade in the Personnel Department regarding appointment of Officers.  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, another point which I want to mention is the single file system that we have discussed in the last session. Every body was condemning this single file system. This single file system of the Government has practically blocked the activities of the technical officers and they have nothing to do now. So the Personnel Department is going to be paralyzed.  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, considering all these things, whether it is a case of absorption or a case of new recruitment, I should say there are lapses on the part of the concerning Departments and in the mind of the Government. I do blame the Government because while coming to this House, they have made promises after promises but nothing has been done. Another thing is that the Government right from the beginning have brought the Indian Administrative Officers to occupy the posts in the Secretariat. In this connection also there is a lapse in between the interest of the Government and the interest of our people to get appointment and to run the State. With these few words, I want to remind the Government while discussing this Motion that they should not set aside the question of absorption. With these few words I resume my seat.

Shri Sibendra N. Koch :  While taking part in this discussion Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the mover of the Motion for bringing this subject matter for discussion. This subject matter is a very delicate one. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in front of us there are two things to be discussed, one is the question of absorption and the other is to employ the unemployed youths. The previous speakers one from Dadengiri and one Mr. Ira Marak have stated that the question of absorption of Khasi tribal employees under Assam Government, should not be favoured. In my humble opinion if the question of retention is considered and accepted by the Government in toto we will be cheating our future generation for which not only the Ministers and also the Government, but we the Members also shall have to explain to our future absorption what we did today, the 5th December, 1972. Here of course, I do not know the exact number of tribal employees under Assam Government but it is said to be 600 and some said that it is 400 because 200 are already absorbed. Now these 400 people who are in the service of the Government of Assam, they will be retiring after completion of 30 years of service or after reaching their superannuation age. In any case, they will be serving at the average of 20 years or so which means employment for young educated is closed for 20 years. We shall have to think of what will be the best way. Now as one of our hon. Members, Mr. Joshi said I also feel proud when the mover of the motion said about our Meghalaya serving in Bombay and West Bengal as Deputy Commissioners. Actually we feel very much proud that they are there, dominating in other States, serving as Deputy Commissioners. So I do not find any reason as to why we cannot identify ourselves as Indians and serve elsewhere in India as those two Deputy Commissioners. I do not know the logic of the hon. Members who are pleading for retention of tribal employees as to why our men cannot go down to Gauhati and serve under Assam Government for the simple reason that they are Meghalayans he when men from other States swarmed to our State and serve here. The hon'ble Mover of the Motion confesses that the resources of State are very limited. If this is so, why not each of us, encourage the people of the State to fetch more revenue, to enrich the Treasury of our States, either by carrying on business or entering services within and without the States, as present tribal employees, under Assam Government are one of the services of boosting our economy. The hon. Member from Mawhati said that in order to absorb 600 people, we require 20 lakhs of rupees, which means that these 600 people will be drawing 2 lakhs of rupees from the Treasury of the Assam Government and assuming that for their stay at Gauhati, they shall have to consume it and spend 12 lakhs, even then 10 lakhs will be coming to the State and why should we not welcome this and give up the idea of absorption. Moreover, as one hon. Member said that he has not heard nor has seen that the Assam Government has issued such instructions or directions that all these Secretariat Tribal employees will have to be educated in the Assam official language when there was no such condition at the time of their employment. Assuming for argument sake that the Assam Government will actually do so, according to the law of our land that men who are appointed in service under one condition cannot be thrown out of their services because of the emergence of certain new condition which was totally absent at the time of their appointment. So I doubt very much that they will do so. If the Assam Government thinks that the persons who do not know how to read and write Assamese they should not work in the office. Will the Government of Assam pay them for no work because dismissal from the services is simply impossible. Another thing the hon. Member from Mawhati, the mover of this motion said that when the Finance Minister of Nagaland by "dhomki" can bring 5 crores of money, why not our State of Meghalaya bring 20 lakhs of rupees, our State Finance Minister may bring not only 20 lakhs but even 5 crores. But the next question is whether there are such posts or works to absorb these persons. If there is no such post, should we just give them pension in the name of absorbing these tribal employees? I do not find the logic of the mover of this motion though I appreciate very much for bringing this motion for discussion on the floor of the Assembly because this subject-matter is very explosive. The hon. Member from Mawhati said about the future that would come after 100 years. It is very much correct that we should formulate our policy, whenever we do we must not think of what will happen today so what will come after 100 years. In this connection, I would like to cite the example of Vasco Da Gama who has sacrificed his life for the future to come. I do not know whether the hon. Member from Mawhati who is now wearing tie would have been able to use it if India would not have been discovered by him. I would request the tribal employees to sacrifice their lives for their future generation so that the future generation does not curse us but bless us for giving them an opportunity for employment. I am doubtful if it would be a wise step to give up the opportunities to serve under the Government of Assam by the Meghalaya which will be difficult to get afterwards. While opposing the motion and differing with the contention and the logic of the hon. Member from Mawhati, I would also like to point out about the employment policy and labour policy of the Government. On many occasions in public meetings, it is said by the hon. Members that we are not in a position to accelerate the developmental activities of our State for want of  officers because our State is new. I quite agree and what more, when there are no officers earlier, now the Assam  Government is not giving us the officers, this blame over the Assam Government for not releasing officers necessary to our Government may be correct in some cases but it cannot be said as cent per cent correct but a lame excuse of the Government for their utter failure to fulfill the pledges they made to the public. In this respect I have contacted with some of the responsible persons of the Assam Government and rather I was accused by the Assam Government that the Meghalaya Government, is releasing the officers without even consulting us for posting of such released officers. I have cited many instances as to how the Meghalaya Government released the officers which I do not like to mention here but I can cite one very recent instance is that very recently it is said that 4 doctors were released by the Government of Meghalaya without consulting the counterpart of the Assam Government. Whenever people and their representative represent to the Government for doctors, Ministers used to reply "we are short of men". But in view of such instances of releasing doctor it is difficult to believe our Ministers and Government when they say no doctor, no engineer. As the hon. Member, Mr. Lyngdoh said, there are a number of vacancies, but those are not filled up by direct appointment from our young people who are now roaming in the street in search of jobs and services. They could have been absorbed and they could have been given the means for their future and thereby save our men from being spoiled. The reason is not far to seek. What has happened in West Bengal? Why there are Naxalites? Why there were murders and all that? It is due to some wrong policies of the Government. So if we continue to be so and if we cannot formulate some constructive policies in respect of employment, I am very much afraid such a situation may arise in our State also. Now regarding employment there is a question of age. A man who has passed his B.A. at the age of 24 and if he cannot get a job within one year, he will not be eligible for any Government job any more. Although there is a relaxation of age by 5 years for the Scheduled Tribes, unfortunately in Meghalaya education of children starts a bit late. We generally pass our Matriculation, B.A. or M.A. at the age of 29 and if we do not get service within one year, our whole future is doomed. So I sincerely request the Government through you, Sir, to take up the matter expeditiously. I have come to know that there are six vacant posts of B.D.O.s and also of some other officers in the Agriculture Department but on this or that plea these posts are not being filled up. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir,  along with the question of absorbing the tribal employees  of the Assam Government there is also another question and that is the question of creating avenues for employment. It is a fact that the Government machinery is not unlimited that it cannot provide employment for all. So there should be some other avenues opened for employment, there should be rapid industrialisation of our State. I think the Government will not be lagging behind in this respect. I am very happy to learn that the Government of Meghalaya has taken up the responsibility of absorbing all the tribal employees now working under the Assam Government. But at the same time I would also request the Government that the Meghalaya Government also take up the responsibility that the unemployed educated youths are also given jobs. So I would request the Government to stick to their commitment and if they fail in their commitment, I believe, one day there may be an upsurge in our State also stopping of which should be the endeavour of  the Government. With these few words I resume my seat.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, so many hon. Members have spoken but so far only one of them has spoken but so far only one of them has spoken in support of the motion. Therefore, before the order is passed, I take this opportunity of supporting the Motion. Sir, by participating in the discussion, I feel myself ................

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on a point of order I would like to point out that this motion is just for discussion and I do not think the situation has arisen for supporting or opposing.

Shri H.E. Pohshna : Yes, I support his views but so many speakers have said "I support, I oppose". Sir, I feel very lonely. Why I feel the loneliness in this discussion because out of 8 or 9 hon. Members, only one of them has supported the motion. I feel the picture of our tribals and their future are very very bleak. For the last two days I happened to visit the Recruiting Office for Army, Navy, Air Forces and Territorial Army. Everywhere in most prominent places it is written - Join Territorial Army, join Navy, join Air Force for the defence of our motherland. But when our tribal people on seeing these beautiful and attractive signboards, approached the Recruiting Office they were asked to stand on the line and later they are asked to get out because they are short. A man with a height of 5 ft. 3 inches or with that of my height and the Finance Minister cannot be recruited because of short stature and for others there will be something wrong in the chest (Loud laughter). A man with a height of 5 ft. 6 inches also will be rejected because if his chest is alright there will be something wrong due to the flatness of his feet and as such many of our boys have been rejected by the Recruiting Office. So there is no place for us in the air, there is no place for us on the land and there is no place for us in the sea and also there is no place for us in the territory, (Loud Laughter) I mean Territorial Army.

        And lastly there is no place for us in the Meghalaya Government. A Member from Garo Hills has said that for labourers also we want outside labourers. He has said we the tribal people need civilization and with this civilization we are as we are now with neck ties and good dress. But civilization does not mean only in wearing neck tie. He may be fit for beauty contest but it has nothing to do with real civilization. If you say that the dress we are wearing now is a sign of civilization why not ask our Government to withdraw the 'Quit India Movement' or bring back the Britishers from beyond the Atlantic Ocean.

        Sir, before civilization came to our country there were big jungles, wild animals and our forefathers as human beings were living and talking with the wild animals, we could talk to the trees, we could talk to animals and even with fish also. (Laughter)

        Then there was no civilization and there was no problem or cry of unemployment. Then, who were defending our borders. It is we who defended our own borders. Though we were short, thin and there were stories of the existence of dwarfs even. But now we cannot become the members of the Security force, we cannot be the custodians of law and order, we are not taken in the Police Force of Meghalaya for our stature as tribal people. One of the hon. Members from Garo Hills has said that he could not understand any logic in the motion of the Mover and he has said that some industries should be started in order to give employment to our people.

        The existing industry of the Assam Cements Company whether it is profitable or not, that has been situated in our area, by our minerals and inside Meghalaya but where are our boys? Out of the 4 Accountants appointed, only one is a tribal! It is really a tragedy that we have to discuss such matters. I do not understand the logic of our friends who oppose this motion.

        On the other hand, Sir, one of our friends has mentioned about the Naxalites. He has even gone to the extent that some of us should play the part of Vasco Da Gama to sail round the world through Cape Comorin, through the pacific Ocean, through the Atlantic Ocean and through some other oceans. In a beautiful book entitled "The Lure of the Unknown" we have had stories of the attraction of natural places, rivers and mountains. Alright let us agree to go round and round the world and let some of our Ministers play the part of Vasco Da Gama. But who will build the ship? Where is the ship to round the world? Some have said that we are short of skilled workers and we cannot be employed in industries and for this thing and that thing. Have you ever started any industrial school? You blame the people that they cannot be employed in these industries. have you opened industrial schools for them? Have you given them a chance of foreign training or some other State training? This is Meghalaya. Sir, I do not want to say much more because the more we say the more we shall get the opposition from the other side.

        While the mover of the motion was moving the motion, every body was laughing. They are laughing at us. But I say here we have done our duty. We have said what we have to say. But think of our young men and women now. When the Hill University is coming, when colleges are coming, shall we encourage our people to go to education or to the fields? If we want them to go to the fields - yes. No good chance is given to our men and women to go to agricultural training. We are thinking of industries, but where are the chances for them? I really like the idea formed by my friends about the Naxalites of West Bengal. Do you want some tribal Naxalites here? The Member who opposed the motion has referred to the Naxalites. Our tribals are far from that idea. Even now many are dying in their hearth and homes without giving any notice to the Government. Now it is duty of the Government not to encourage them to become Naxalites. You will find, Sir, in the B.O.C. that the greater number of people who are standing in queue for half a bottle of kerosene are not outsiders, they are tribal people of Shillong. From that you will find, Sir, that there are people who could not afford to have electricity for their own use, they have no money to have light connections in their humble home. Therefore, as regards the policy of the Government for absorption, I should say that 600 employees is not a difficult thing for the Government to absorb. If they say that it is difficult to absorb 600 tribal employees in Meghalaya, then don't dream of 6,000 or 60,000 more tribals to be appointed in future. About 25 years back some people said that Hill State or Meghalaya was an impossibility. But it has come. Before it came what was the slogan? Oh it should be for the interest of the tribal people. Of course I appreciate the stand taken by some non tribals here. It is not that we do not want them, but we have not been able to feed our own people. How can we feed them? There is a saying that God helps those who help themselves. If we cannot help our own people, how can we help others. The hon. Member from Garo Hills said that unless we invite outsiders as skilled labourers, we could not finish the construction of roads. Again I refer to the saying of one of my friends who said that he was here with a beautiful neck tie - even good for beauty contest. I also used to wear neck tie. But what about the people in the rural areas while we are here with good dresses and neck ties, our people in the rural areas are half-naked. With these few words, Sir, I resume my seat.

*Shri Plansing Marak : I rise to oppose the motion. I am glad that the Government of Meghalaya is trying to absorb the tribal employees of Assam as far as practicable. Today one of my hon. friends moved that the remaining tribal employees of Assam should be absorbed under the Government of Meghalaya. I think that will not be possible on the part of the Government of Meghalaya to absorb them all on a sudden. But we are aware that the Government is trying to open up avenues in order to include these tribal employees. This absorption of Assam Secretariat tribal employees came during the last session also and I had the occasion of participating in the discussion. In that session, I expressed my opinion that the inclusion of  these tribal employees now under the Government of Assam should not in any way affect the 40 % reservation for the people of Garo Hills. Today as it stands, the position of the Garos in the Secretariat and various Directorate levels is as follows, and if my friends who wanted to include these Assam employees know the position of the Garos and what sort of share they are getting in the administration of Meghalaya, I hope they will not like this idea. I will roughly give the number of Garos in the different Directorates and Secretariats as it stands today. In the Secretariat the number of UDA  from Garo Hills is nil, LDA 7 and Typist one. In the Directorates UDA only one Garo, LDA 9. Out of these 9,4 are employed only for two months and the number of typist is only 3. In the Assembly Secretariat one Accountant, one LDA and one Typist. I think it is only in the Agriculture Department that a number of Garo Officers have got the chance. (Voices : Non tribals how many?)

        I am speaking of tribals. One Research Officer, one Research Assistant and one Computor. The total number of Garos getting chance under Meghalaya is 29 only. I would like to inform the hon. Members and friends who have brought this motion today that there are only 29 Garos getting the chance in Meghalaya. So long we have never tried to open our mouth but today we are compelled to bring it to the notice of the ruling party and the opposition party as well. The total number of posts, as it stands today, in the different Departments : the total number of UDA - not to speak of Secretaries, Deputy Secretaries or Superintendents, I am counting only from UDA to Typist, the number is 200 UDAs. Out of these 200 UDAs 6 have been given to the non tribals and of the remaining 194 UDAs there is not a single Garo. The total number of UDA in the Secretariat is nil. I have already given the total number of Garo LDAs. You can minus it out of the total 183. Out of 183 posts, one post has been given to a non tribal. Out of the remaining 182, you can subtract the number of Garos. The total number of Typists is 116 and three have been given to the non-tribals. The remaining 113 posts I leave to you to subtract. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is on this ground that I oppose this motion. Sir, from the above figures only a few Garos are getting the chance. Now, Sir, during the last session not a single Garo MLA had complained but now we are compelled to bring these to the notice of the House. Different social organisations, both Garo and non-Garo both tribal and non-tribal are now expressing dissatisfaction against the employment policy followed by this Government (Applause). Now some friends are bringing in a motion to absorb the 501 Assam Government employees and are putting the Government in a most difficult position. I have enquired and found that the 501  Assam Government employees represent only a certain section of the people. Therefore, while the Government is thinking to include all these  Assam Government employees, I sincerely and earnestly appeal to the Government to see that equal opportunities are given to the Garos also. We have shouted the demand for a Hill State and we have worked together for it. We have staged demonstrations, we have staged strikes and is this what we are getting? Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while the Government is trying to give equal opportunities to all I would like to bring to the notice of of the Government that more Garos should be given equal opportunities but this demand to include the Assam Government employees I think is going to block the new entrants. Therefore, I would appeal to my friends to consider this very seriously as one of the hon. Members has stated that if the Government cannot include the Assam Government employees there may be demonstrations, there may be strikes and hartals and something may happen in my district if equal opportunities are not given. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am sorry to utter these words and I am not opposing the inclusion of these Assam Government employees they are our brothers and sisters but I will plead that the Garos are also given equal opportunities. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir,  I would like to bring more points but I do not like to heat up this House. Anyway, I would like to raise only one point. As for example, nobody knows whether there is a vacancy for the post of Sub-Inspector. It is only when a person joins the post that we know that there was such a post vacant. We know the post of Inspector of Taxes only when a person joins. We never knew that there was a Transport Authority but when a person joins then only we know the post of Transport Authority. In this way, these things are going on and I do not know what will happen if the Assam Government employees are brought here. That was one of the reasons why Government was only trying. Therefore, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I earnestly request my friends from the opposition not to put the Government in a difficult position by trying to include these Assam Government employees at this stage. Before I take my seat I would appeal to the Garo brothers and sisters with the Assamese people and maintain the relationship and friendliness and neighbourliness with the people of Assam. With these few words I oppose the motion.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to associate myself with the mover of the motion, the hon. Member from Mawhati in regard to this problem in the State of Meghalaya. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will not take much time of the House. As you know, Sir, our Government came into being on the basis of democratic principles and as a Welfare State. It is also a State based on the spirit of goodwill with neighbouring States and the Union Territories and also with different countries of the world. We are not to build up a State of Meghalaya on the basis of force or threats or demanding anything with violence as quoted by the hon. Member from Mawhati. I do not believe that violence and force can last long but there is a time when to stop it. But I would like to see that we build up our State in a peaceful and non-violent manner. Sir, on point No.2, I would like to state that our State of Meghalaya was created only 5 months back and we cannot expect much of a sudden change within this period. The State of Meghalaya or the Government of Meghalaya has not got a magic lamp of Alla-Udin so that we can change it overnight and solve the problems of the people of our State overnight. So Sir, to make our State prosperous and beautiful it requires time and for the time being Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is a fact, a real fact that we have to bring in some experts and technicians from other neighboring States or other countries if possible in order to build up the financial position of our State. I fully appreciate the idea of our friends who spoke a lot about our difficulties due to nature and that we are not fit to be a soldier, we are not fit to be air men, not fit to be in the Army or Navy due to our own natural qualities. It is not due to our under-age or over-age but it is due to our nature because we are people born short by nature. So we cannot complain nor blame the Government for this because it is not the Government who make us short, and small. It is the nature itself. (Laughter)

        Another point Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to discuss that within 5 months after the creation of our Sate of Meghalaya it is unavoidable for us and for the Government of India to improve our State and ourselves for the future prospects of our own people by bringing some experts and technicians from outside from our neighbouring State of Assam and other parts of the country. So far I understand that all the officers and staff of the Government of Assam are on deputation to the Government of Meghalaya. The final allocation of officers and staff has not yet been done by these two Governments i.e., the Government of Assam and Government of Meghalaya up to this hour of discussion. So I would like to request the Government of Meghalaya to take an early decision to settle this matter with the Government of Assam relating to the deputation and exchange of employees. I also understand that the Government of Meghalaya has sent a circular to all non-tribal employees now serving under the Government of Meghalaya to exercise their option whether they want to go back to the Brahmaputra valley of Assam or they want to stay here in Meghalaya. I believe that is the policy of the Government and I understand Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that our tribal employees now serving under the Government of Assam are supposed to go down to the plain of Assam after the shifting of the Capital of Assam. We all feel for their difficulties, when they have to go down to the plains of Assam. The reason is that we all do not want them to go down to different States or different countries of the world but we all wish them to remain here. But Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the other hand, I want to say that we wish that our sons and daughters should not remain and confine themselves only in their own State but should go somewhere outside the State and to different parts of the country and even to other countries of the world in order to bring home some valuable things, some knowledge, some technical know-how of the outside world as other people of different countries used to do. By going to other States, I hope our people could bring home economic prosperity of our State. But we also feel for our friends and relatives when they will go down to the valley, they will find difficulty with the official language of that valley after the introduction of the Assamese language there.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna : Why don't you go around the world yourself? (Laughter)

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh : Yes I would like to go if I get a chance and I think you also want to go to England and Germany and all foreign countries if you get a chance. (Laughter)

        Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let us think deeper in this particular subject. I have also the feeling of sympathy, deep sympathy about our friends and relatives as the hon. Member from Mawhati has already stated that our tribal people especially Khasis and Jaintias will find it very difficult to learn Assamese language. They will be in a very difficult position in this respect to serve the Government of Assam since the Assam Government has proposed to use Assamese as the official language of the State, as I have said before. So along with our deep feelings accompanied some problems also.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna : Then we have got difficulties in going around the world.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to request you that if the hon. Member wants to speak anything, he should address the Chair because this is the primary approach of speaking in our country. We have inherited from democratic people who were all along upholding a democratic principle, so, I think the hon. Member has to address the Chair.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not want to speak but I just like to hear his speech. If you refer to late Netaji Bose, the great son of India you will find that he said "If you want to see real democracy, go to the North-eastern part of India and you will see real democracy".

Shri Humphrey Hadem : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in referring to the speech of Netaji Bose, the hon. Member has said that the coming of other tribes means seeing democracy.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what I want to refer here whenever any Member wants to discuss or say something in the House, he should first of all address the Chair. If any Member or any hon. friend wants to speak, he should first address the Chair. Therefore, in this context, I think I also have a right to proceed with my speech without any interruption from any hon. Member.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : You may continue with it.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have heard so much about the particular problem confronting our State at present. Some of our friends have eloquently spoken about it. We all have a feeling to get rid of the problem and we can expect that we could do so within a short time. It may take a few months, few years altogether. Our friends just now have referred to our own people now serving under the Government of Assam in different ranks, cadres, different categories and different scale of pay. (Bell rang)

Mr. Deputy Speaker : How many minutes more will you take?

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh : I need more than 5 minutes Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, because some of my friends have had enough time.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : 5 minutes cannot be allowed because the Minister has to reply.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh : If we will go down a little deeper into this particular problem you will find that it was deeply rooted and cannot be solved simply by wishing and looking at the clouds. This particular problem ........

Mr. Deputy Speaker : May I request the hon. Member to confine himself to the point that is under discussion?

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh : These tribal employees from Assam should be brought into Meghalaya immediately. But Sir, there is a problem because some of them are serving as Superintendent, some others as technical experts and some of them as L.D. Assistants, some as typists and some as stenographers. One thing I would like to point out Sir, and that is within this State of Meghalaya, is one post of L.D. Assistant is vacant, we cannot employ him as Superintendent in Meghalaya. We should appoint him in the same capacity as he should be in Assam. We hope our Government will try their level best to solve this problem as early as possible and help our people and our own brethren out of this type of difficulty. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am very grateful that you have given me a chance to speak and I would request the hon. Members and the whole House to think deeply into this problem. And also to encourage our own people in their own class of service to face the difficulties with bravery. (Bell rang). We cannot bring and employ all those tribals under the Government of Assam without finding corresponding vacancies or assessing the requirements of posts. I would request and urge upon the Government to look into this matter with a positive approach. Next, my suggestion is that we should take up more projects on electricity in our State. With these words, I resume my seat.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : We have had enough discussion on the subject and now, I will request the Minister to reply.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh ( Minister, Finance etc. ) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Government very much welcome this motion to discuss this very very serious and important problem. Today, we are confronting with this gigantic problem in the whole State of Meghalaya. The first point is the absorption of those employees now serving under the Government of Assam who have already shifted or likely to be shifted to Gauhati. On the long term aspect of the problem of employment, this Government is very much concerned and has been so, for the last few months and in fact is very much exercised over this problem of our people who have been working and living here with their families in their own villages, own home and their own land. Suddenly, they were ordered to move down to Gauhati where they will face many difficulties. I do appreciate also the concern which the hon. Members from all sides of the House have expressed during the last 2 and half hours discussion on the subject. Before I would give a reply to the whole thing, I would like to make the observation regarding our approach in our discussion in this House. This is a subject of common concern to all of us and therefore, this tendency of compartmental approach from this side or that side is very wrong indeed. I have heard speeches from the hon. Members who said that the monopoly is only of one side and not of the other. We should give up this sentiment or rather such a feeling of contempt or hatred. We have all been returned to this House from the same community, same State and same land and by keeping these points in  minds, if one is totally foreign and the other is indigenous but we were from the same soil, the same State and same community. (At this stage the Deputy Speaker left the Chamber and Mr. G. Mylliemngap (Chairman took the Chair).

        Mr. Chairman, Sir, therefore, I would request the hon. Members to discuss this problem and to do away with this compartmental approach from both sides. Therefore, Sir, steps are being taken to bring our fellow tribal Government servants from the Government of Assam. Because Sir, we have the same feeling, the same sentiment as we are from the same land, same race and same State to leave them at large. Therefore, there is only a question of making suitable arrangements in order  to bring our brethren from the Government of Assam but we are not changing our character. Therefore, I would like the hon. Members from the opposite to appreciate their attributions in the House as if we have come here from somewhere outside the State. Sir, for better illustration and for the sake of example, the hon. Member from Pariong has referred to a circular letter being issued by the Secretary of one Department to our Government and to some District Offices to the effect that as stated by him that we don't like to appoint our own tribals and that non-tribals should be employed in Meghalaya. I don't know whether the hon. Member has seen the circular letter personally or simply heard it from somebody else or being convinced to take this attitude of compartmental voice which is not at all correct and conceivable in this august body.

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Who is that Member? 

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh ( Minister, Finance ) : The hon. Member from Pariong has invited the attention that we have heavily exercised in this connection.

        As already mentioned by the hon. mover from Mawhati that on the 9th of October this year, the Government had invited even the leaders of all sections of the House to meet and discuss this problem and after the discussion to have taken steps in this matter to know the agitated minds of the people. The Government also have issued a Press release as referred to by the hon. Mover on this question of employment about the employees who are now being shifted or who have already shifted to Gauhati. Now, before I refer to the statement, I would like to refer to the speech of Mr. Koch on the question of policy of employment. I believe that all the members here are matured enough to understand that employment means work. When there is no work, there is no employment. Therefore the question of solving employment and to suggest as the mover of the motion said, without work let the Government spend 20 lakhs bringing all those 500 employees from Assam Government would amount to employment without work. If there is no work and then to employ them I should say is a very very unreasonable suggestion. The question is that we have to examine whether we have enough vacancies and therefore, we have decided that to find work, employment and vacancies as they arise will be filled up by considering also the problem of the employees now serving under the Assam Government who have gone or likely to go to Gauhati and we have given this priority to the total of 60% of all the vacancies as they occur now or would occur in future would be taken from those employees who have gone or likely to go to Gauhati. So now, Mr. Chairman Sir, after hearing Mr. Pohshna who has referred that many members have spoken and none supported the motion, I think that there is reference to the demand that cent per cent vacancies in the State be filled up only by people who have got employment in Assam. They have appreciated and welcomed this decision of the Government that at least 40% of the vacancies that have occurred and will occur will have to give the opportunity to the vast educated youths living in the towns of Jowai, Tura and Shillong. But apart from this decision, Mr. Chairman, Government have already indicated and informed in a Press release that they are tapping all avenues with the Central Government offices to solve this very important and urgent problem of those unfortunate employees now serving under Assam Government. We have initiated with the various Central Government departments and we have taken one more decision. We have taken steps also to train these employees for the opportunities of being appointed to the proposed office of the Controller of Defence Accounts. If this proposal materialises it will employ not less than 250 employees. But they have to be trained in that branch of the work in accounts. The Government of Meghalaya has volunteered to train the Assam Government employees, the tribal employees in accounts for 4, 5 or 6 months as may be required so that they can be absorbed in the Controller of Accounts' office which is now proposed to be set up in Shillong. We have taken up this matter with the Government of Assam to allow these employees who are likely to join the office to be trained for a few months here and we expect that the Assam Government will agree to allow them to be trained, and this will go a long way in solving this problem. Now Sir, I think the mover and many other members have diverted to many other serious matters. I would mention only one or two for if they are left unanswered, it will create misunderstanding. About the I.A.S. officers that this Government are employing only outsiders neglecting the local tribal people here. I do not know whether all the Members spoke with knowledge or conviction or whether they are speaking merely for the sake of speaking. I know by this time after 25 years of Independence and after running our own Government in India and in this part of Assam we have known of the service policy of the country that it is not open to the State Government to allot the officers who are serving in their own State. This is a Central service cadre and it is the Central Government that recruit the I.A.S. officers and then they allot to any State that they think fit. It is not open to the Government to suggest even from the beginning. For example, we are inexperienced or even not knowing the fact we had tried. We had tried to persuade the Government of India to get these tribal I.A.S. officers posted in Bombay, Gujarat, West Bengal etc. to come here Mr. Bareh specially has taken very keen personal interest getting Shri T. Challam of Jowai and we thought that before the allotment something could be done for the tribal I.A.S. candidates who succeeded last year. They are Mr. Teddy Pakyntein and Mr. Frank Roy. We thought if we make a request before allotment, there would be no difficulty to allot them to us. So we sent a telegram before the allotment and pursued it. But we received a reply in the hand-writing of the Prime Minister herself rejecting our request. We did try to find out whether such instances have occurred in other States and we found that the position is very very firm. So, all the Members at least should have tried to find out the facts before speaking seriously in this august House on this question. At present, we are in the joint cadre with Assam. From the inception of the Autonomous State right upto now we are sharing officers with Assam and therefore, we can get officers only by persuading or requesting the Government of Assam to release tribal officers from the Assam Cadre and we did it. At present, we have requisitioned all tribal I.A.S. Officers except one. Now we have 7 .......... (Voices .............. 2 .......... Not one but 2 ......) One has been released by us because of the case. Now, we have 7 tribal I.A.S. officers and 14 non-tribal I.A.S. officers. Therefore, to charge or blame wildly without caring to look to the facts, I think it is unworthy of responsible Members of this august House.

        So far as the ministerial staff is concerned I would not like to mention the details. But let the hon. Members just get the facts. The statistics have been given by the hon. Member, Mr. Marak. Only State Civil Service officers have not been mentioned and I would add that all had been requisitioned by us except one whom we need that he should be in that Department in Assam and one, who refused to come because of better prospects in Assam. If the hon. Members would care to enquire, they would not have really brought these wild charges here in this august House.

        Now, on the next question of avenues of employment for the large member of unemployed people in our State, I would say that this is a question which is of an all India nature. All over the country we are facing this great problem. All over India people are so concerned that this year and in the next few years, the Government of India is giving special attention to this problem by evolving special crash employment projects and schemes and we share those schemes and we are now executing them in various fields of activity. However considering the position we are having now in our State, I remember, last time when we discussed this labour question hon. Members referred about seeing many of the people from outside the State working on the roads. We did discuss here and we should appreciate this fact that so far as the labour on the roads and in the fields is concerned, it is true that we are short of men in various seasons because in our community, we have not yet raised a professional labour force. We are agriculturists and we devote our time to cultivation and only in off season that we are prepared to go to work on the roads and that is why the contractors in the working season have to bring people from outside the State to work on the roads. Therefore, so far as this question is concerned, we may not be in a position at present to solve the problem but we hope that in the near future we may be able to solve it and we may have educated and semi-educated employees. This is of course a very serious problem and we are deeply exercised on this question. As all of us here in the House, we also in the Government are very deeply concerned in this matter and we have had a series of discussions over the subject and we realise that in the present situation of our State one main factor that may ease the situation and help us in the field of industrialisation. Now before I mention about our attempts and steps in this direction, I would first of all refer to the various suggestions of the hon. Members on this question like State Transport. I do not know how the running of State Transport will solve the unemployment problem.

(Voices : Drivers and conductors can be employed)

        The drivers and conductors are being employed in the private sector. Therefore, it is simply taking away those employees from the private owners by the Government. So, how do we solve the unemployment problem by running the State Transport? The private buses will also employ the drivers and conductors. Therefore, there is no question of solving the problem of unemployment by the running of the State Transport by the State. Of course, more transport will give more employment and so also more routes and greater commerce. It would not make a difference whether it is run by the private companies or by the State Government. If you speak of  the policy and of the comforts, that is a different matter. But if you speak of employment by running the State Transport, I would differ on that. It is all the same. Now, if you make a difference of Government employment and private employment, that is of course true. If we now separate from the present Assam Meghalaya State Transport Corporation and if we establish our own Corporation, even then that will not help the unemployment problem because they are already employed and we have to distribute and share the employees with Assam. So, on this question of transport, we are mistaken if we lay emphasis on it. There are, of course, suggestions of farming, etc., but that is a matter of growth, growth of work, growth of production. That will help employment either by the people or by the Government jointly by the people and the Government as in advanced States. Where the Government find it difficult to get people in the Government services and there are States where the people think and take it as a sacrifice to go and serve in the Government offices. Therefore as I have stated just at present it seems to us that the best opportunity afforded to us by way of helping and easing this problem is by opening up of industries, small, medium and large. In this connection, Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to inform the hon. Members of the House that the Government have taken steps and the process has been going on for the last few months or a year ago. It is not so easy to work out or decide for setting up of industries over-night, it will take some time for consideration, survey, valuation and preparation of a project report. But in spite of that we have pressed it very much, and by this time I hope this scheme will materialise. One is Komorah Limestone Mining company just on the border of Bangladesh and we expect the employment potentiality to be 270 of all categories. The second one is the Meghalaya Essential Oils and Chemicals Company. In this the employment opportunity will be about 55 persons.

Prof. M.N. Majaw : Whether it is a Government concern.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh ( Minister, Finance ) : It is a joint sector.

Prof. M.N. Majaw : And the first one.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh ( Minister, Finance ) : The first one also is a joint sector.

Shri M.N. Majaw : Joint with whom?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh ( Minister, Finance ) : With private entrepreneurs.

Prof. M.N. Majaw : Who are those private entrepreneurs?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh ( Minister, Finance ) : That you should give a notice. Now also we have in existence a meter factory here in Shillong but unfortunately it has not been working for a long time and it is running at a loss. However, the Government thought, as I said earlier, that there is no question of employment without work. Work should be productive. Just to start an industry and running at a loss may not be good for the State. Yet we have to balance with profitability and productivity plus employment. We are to think seriously for the meter factory inspite of running at a loss. We are trying to balance it between the cost and the products keeping in view the advantages of large opportunities for employment because here there will be a very big scope for employment. We are expecting that the employment potential will be about 390 on three shift basis or 260 on two shift basis. We have been very serious of course but judging from the sentiment expressed in this House and outside even for the 480 persons we are so much agitated all over for the last few months, these 100 small community of Meghalayans cannot be very much. Then we are studying and preparing for a project report of clinker factory in Garo Hills. This will be a big scheme for supply of cement to West Bengal and other States. If it materialises or if the project is found feasible then we will have employment potential of 1,000 people. Then also we have now in hand preparation for the establishment of calcium carbide, calcium carbonate and hydrated lime plants. Now this scheme has been prepared and we do not know yet or we have not yet been able to calculate its employment potentiality. It is in the primary stage in the private sector. We are all now considering to give permission to establish a jute factory to two rerolling mills (one in Khasi Hills and one in Garo Hills) which will give scope for employment to a number of our own people. Then we have also been approached by certain persons for establishment of a pineapple canning unit. Negotiations are going on. This will help not only giving employment opportunity to our people but also it will help utilisation of our products having home market. Now there are certain big projects like pulp and paper project and we are thinking for this project and negotiation is going on with the Government of India and private parties who are in the line. So these are serious matters that may ease the situation immediately and also to build the foundation of growth of employment opportunities in our own State and for our own people. However some remarks here need to be clarified when our members know that we are short of technical hands from our people in the field of agriculture veterinary and perhaps for industries we are short of engineers. A question was asked why not the Government start training centres for our people by giving scholarship. We are doing it and the members will be able to know if they take the trouble to enquire from the various departments. We have done and  we have been trying our best to offer such facilities. But I would like to draw the attention of the Members that so long and for many years and perhaps for century we are here and our community has been aspiring for clerical jobs. Technical and industrial works are new to them and even in the whole country, I should say. Therefore immediately now it is a fact that we are very short of technical and skilled men to man the various jobs in the field of agriculture and industries and road building. Also it is difficult just now to reply in the affirmative for setting up of training institute immediately but I would like to inform the Members of this august House that the Government of Assam has tried several places to establish I.T.I. The I.T.I. set up in Garo Hills is a very sad industrial training institute where the number of teachers is more than the number of students. Nobody came forward even with stipend offered for.

Mr. Chairman : May I know how many minutes you will require?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh ( Minister, Finance ) : Mr. Chairman, Sir, I require about 10 minutes.

Mr. Chairman : May I have the sense of the House that the sitting be extended by 10 minutes. (Voices : Yes, yes)

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh ( Minister, Finance ) : Mr. Chairman, Sir, it is my personal experience, I may inform the House that at Mawlai the Government has established a polytechnic institute where the students are given stipends for study and after completion of the course they are provided with employment as engineers and technicians, first as Overseers. But it is sad to say that for the last few years the institute is running with very few local tribal students though the institute is situated in their own place at Mawlai. Then jointly the teachers and college teachers' organisation last year organised the meeting for all the Matric students in the State Library to bring home to them that they should take to technical lines, commercial lines, etc. and I also told them that unless you go to commerce, etc., I have doubt if you would have an opportunity in services which are very limited. I understand that there are large numbers of students who got enrolled in commerce and technical lines. I would also appeal to the Members that in their own sphere they should bring home to the parents and to the students the importance of technical skills. The situation as it exists today is that opportunities of employment will be very limited if we just go for general lines like I.A. or B.A. also. We have now to concentrate on the need for sending the students to technical and commercial lines. Sir, from Garo Hills several members have spoken well. I should say that the feelings sometimes overwhelm us so much so  that our eyes have become partially closed. First of all the fact of history is ignored that there is no question of employment policy here, it is a question of employment problem and when we have a full-fledged State, we find that this is the position. Therefore we must not get angry with the Government and with the leaders because of the wrong position we have found ourselves in. We have to be concerned but we should not be happy about the situation as we find it and then we should see with constructive approach how to improve and change the position when we are given the State and when we take over the reins of the State Government. As an example, Shillong was the capital of the State of Assam. At that time it included East Pakistan also and because of that fact it has brought education nearer to Shillong. Therefore the people near about Shillong got facilities for education, this is a fact. Therefore, the people who lived very far away at Sonapahar or at Tura or Sutnga or in any other places of the State got less opportunity. First of all the Cherra dialect was the official language in the whole of U.K.J. Hills. That really was the original language, or the Jaintia language. That was a fact of history. We may be sorry about that.

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to be enlightened by the Finance Minister. What does when he mean when he said that the original language was the Jaintia language. Does he mean the language of the Jaintia Parganas?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh ( Minister, Finance ) : I cannot explain. But historians have recorded that the people now living in the K.J. Hills have originally come from the Jaintia Hills. Anyway this is the fact of history. We should not be angry for the situation. I may be sad that perhaps my language was not original language.

Shri H. Hadem : What does the Minister mean that by simply naming the places of Saitsohpen and Cherrapunjee can it be said that it is the language of the U.K.J. Hills.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh ( Minister, Finance ) : I have just said that it is with the location of the capital because education started from Cherrapunjee and the students got the original language and it has become the language of the Khasi and Jaintia Hills District. We should not be angry that it is a fact of history. Therefore I would appeal to the hon. Members to allow us to study the situation and to see how the situation could be improved, how it could be readjusted so that we could ensure fairness, equality and prosperity of the people of the State as a whole. As it is now in India inequality is the cause that produces communalism and not language. It is a complex to inequality that produces the common problem in the disguise of language. Therefore, inequality Mr. Chairman, Sir, is the root cause of various problems among our people in the State. Therefore Sir, with fairness and conviction of the Government of a small State of Meghalaya we believe in the very near future, with the co-operation of all concerned all this anomalous position can be corrected so that we can bring in a happy, united and equal people all over the State. There are other minor matters, which are important but as pointed out by Mr. E. Pohshna that there are difficulties of employment of our people in the Defence Service, etc., under the Government of India because of their height, etc. Now so far as this question is concerned I was expecting to reply to the Resolution that was listed.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : Mr. Chairman, Sir, the extended time is over.

Mr. Chairman : Another 30 seconds.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh ( Minister, Finance ) : So far the Government of Meghalaya is concerned, these difficulties will be removed that will be suitable for our people here. There are difficulties in the Government of India also and I may inform that in one Department at least we have succeeded. Our Minister incharge of Forests has taken up the matter seriously with the Government of India about giving scholarship to our tribal people in forest training under the Government of India. The Government of India has made an exception regarding the height and now our  tribal people may get the opportunity in the Forest Department of the Government of India. With these few words, I resume my seat. 

Prof. M.N. Majaw : Mr. Chairman, Sir, ............

( Voices - The time is over )

Mr. Chairman : Is it the sense of the House that we extend by another two minutes ....... (Voices - Yes, yes).

Prof. M.N. Majaw : Mr. Chairman Sir, I must request the hon. Member, Mr. Plansing Marak, to kindly not misunderstand our stand in the inclusion of tribal employees. I can assure here that none of us has the slightest idea of anti-Garo. I may be permitted to explain, as our Finance Minister has pointed out, the circumstances today, that when we move such a motion, we have included the unemployed youths in Garo Hills also. So we offer our service readily to the Garos to help them and find employment for them and there will be no such anti-idea amongst us because we are all tribal people. (Bell rang).

        There is another issue which was not replied and that is the North Eastern Council and the Assam Cements.

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : I would like to raise a point of order. Can we create new items of business here on the floor of the House? If we can do so, your ruling will apply for the future also. Now I sympathise with the hon. Member from Mawhati. He has raised the question about the North Eastern Council and some other points, but after the Minister replied, I do not see there is any scope for a Member to say anything new except by way of seeking clarification from the Minister.

Mr. Chairman : He was doing exactly. He is seeking clarification. I have already given to the Mover two minutes also by way of clarification.

Shri Hoover Hynniewta : Is it clarification or right of reply?


Mr. Chairman : As the two minutes' time has already run out, I adjourn the House till 10 A.M. on Wednesday, the 6th December, 1972.

Dated Shillong :


The 5th December.


Meghalaya Legislative Assembly.