PROCEEDINGS OF THE MEGHALAYA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY ASSEMBLED AT 10 A.M. ON TUESDAY, THE 27TH JUNE, 1972 IN THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER, SHILLONG, WITH THE HON. SPEAKER IN THE CHAIR.

STARRED QUESTIONS 

(To which oral replied were given)

Mr. Speaker :-  Now let us begin with the business of the day. Let us start with Starred Question No. 13 to be asked by Shri Onwardleys Well Nongtdu.

(Question not put, Member being absent)

Mr. Speaker :-  Let us now come to Starred Question. No. 14 to be asked by Shri Ira Marak.

Middle English Schools in Garo Hills :

Shri Ira Marak asked :

*14.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Education be pleased to state -

(a)

How many Middle English Schools are there in Garo Hills District under direct control of the only Deputy Inspector of Schools ?

(b)

Whether Government consider that the increasing number of Middle English Schools plus office works and other multifarious duties are manageable by one Deputy Inspector of Schools ?

(c)

Whether Government is aware that many Schools every year remained undisputed for the reason that the number of Middle English Schools is too much for one Deputy Inspector of Schools to take up proper inspection ?

(d)

If so, whether Government is considering to provide Departmental Vehicles too the Deputy Inspector of Schools to facilitate efficient management, quick and frequent supervision of the Schools ?

(e)  If not, what alternative arrangement Government proposes to take to ensure efficiency in management and control of the Middle English Schools in Garo Hills ?

Shri Darwin D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) replied :

14. (a)

The number of Middle English Schools under the control of the Deputy Inspector of Schools, Garo Hills.

(i) 13 Government Middle English Schools direct control. 

(ii) 12 Government Aided (Deficit) Middle English Schools.

(iii) 75 Government Aided (Aided) Middle English Schools.

(iv) 2 Recognised but unaided.

Total - 102  Middle English Schools.

(b)

Government realise that it is difficult for one Deputy Inspector to manage the Inspection of such a large number of Middle English Schools in addition to his office and other multifarious duties.

(c)

Yes, Sir.

(d)

Yes, Sir.

(e)

Does not arise, Sir.

Mr. Speaker :-   Now Starred Question No. 15 to be replied by Shri. E. Bareh, Minister, Agriculture.

Shri S. D. Khongwir :-  Is there any deputation allowance granted to those officers.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, as far as the problem of deputation is concerned, we have come to an agreement with the Government of Arunachal Pradesh.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the absence of Join Assam and Meghalaya cadre for Agriculture, whether there is a special cadre for Agriculture.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, well as far as this Joint cadre is concerned, the Government of Meghalaya is yet to set up its own various State Services cadres including Meghalaya Agricultural Services.

Shri D.D. Lapang (Nongpoh S.T.) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know how for many years these officers were deputed to the Government of Meghalaya ?

Mr. Speaker :-  That is a new question.

Shri D.D. Lapang :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I mean for how many years an officer was sent on deputation to the Government of Meghalaya ?

Mr. Speaker :-  The Minister has already replied that the term of deputation has not yet been finalised.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :-  The matter is yet to be finalised with the Government of Arunachal.

Prof. Marin Narayan Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I know whether the qualification of the persons who belong to the State was considered ?

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :-  Yes, very well considered.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, is there any officer who is competent to take up the Department of Agriculture in the State ?

Mr. Speaker :-  The Minister has given the reply.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question means whether there are other qualified persons or not in the State?

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- Yes there are, but they are not so qualified.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, whether the Minister realises the special agricultural conditions obtaining in the State which are perhaps better understood by the persons of the soil than by person from outside ?

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- This is a matter of opinion.

Shri Jormanik Syiem :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I know since when they have been entertained in the State. ?

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :-  I do not know exactly, but I think they joined on 25th May.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, may, I know what is the difference regarding qualification between that particular officer deputed from other States and officers who are already in the State ?

Mr. Speaker :-  That is a vague question. We do not know yet how many officers the Government considered at the time of giving appointment.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, whether the Government is aware of the fact that one of these officers who might have been considered, was previously appointed to the post of the Director of Agriculture, under the Government of Nagaland.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :-  Government is aware of it.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know the reasons why in this case posting of that officer has been put aside ?

Mr. Speaker :- That is a new question altogether concerning another officer and not this officer.

Unstarred Questions (Replies to which were placed on the table) Now let us pass on to Unstarred Question No. 12.

(Question not put, Member being absent).

Unstarred Questions

Jowai Civil Hospital

Shri Enowell Pohshna  asked :

13.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Health be pleased to state -

(a)

How many beds are there in Jowai Civil Hospital ?

(b)

Whether it is a fact that due to lack of accommodation many sick people are refused admission there ?

(c)

Whether Government is considering for expansion of this Hospital to a reasonable extent during the current year to remove the difficulty of the people of Jaintia Hills ?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health)   replied :

13. (a)

Thirty - seven beds

(b)

Yes.

(c)

Yes.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  Question No. 13(c) what will be the total number of beds after expansion of the Hospital ?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :-  At present there are 37 and Government is going to increase by 36 more beds. So the total would be  73.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, Question No. 13 (b) where the reply is 'Yes'. Whether the Government provides any other admission for those who are refused admission in the Hospital ?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :-   The Government has no such programme.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :-  So we are given to understand that those who are refused admission are allowed to lie on roads.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :-  That is argumentative. The hon. Member should have been satisfied with the reply realising the fact that the Government has taken action to expand the bed capacity.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :-  I am talking of the present. When the patients are refused admission in the hospital, may we know if Government will give them treatment ?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Yes, of course

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  What steps have so far been taken regarding the immediate expansion of the hospital ?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- I cannot follow the question.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  My question is : What steps have been taken up till now regarding the immediate expansion of the hospital ?

Mr. Speaker :-  The Chief Minister has already replied that it is because of the difficulties of getting admission for those patients that the Government will go ahead with the work but what steps will be taken will be according to the procedure. The hon. Member understands very well the Government procedure.  But if sometimes questions are brought in a round about manner, I think it is not possible for the Government to reply.

Prevention of Food Adulteration

Shri P.N. Choudhury asked :

14.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Health be pleased to state -

(a)

Whether the Prevention of Food Adulteration Act, 1954 of the Government of India has been adopted in Meghalaya ?

(b)

If the reply  to (a) above is in affirmative, whether Public Analysts and Enforcement Staff like food Inspectors have been appointed under this Act ?

(c)

If the reply to (b) above is in affirmative, how may cases of  food adulteration has so far been detected in the State?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- replied :

14. (a)

The Act became operative in Meghalaya automatically with effect from 21st January, 1972 when we obtained full Statehood.

(b)

The Public Analist and other Enforcement Staff under this Act are yet to be appointed.

(c)

Does not arise

Shri  P.N. Choudhury :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the reply to question 14(b), may we know from the Minister how adulteration in the market in being checked ?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- I cannot follow the question properly.

Mr. Speaker :-  Yes, what is your question, Mr. Choudhury ?

Shri P.N. Choudhury :-  Sir, my question is in regard to the reply to question (b). In reply to (b) it has been stated that the "Public Analist and other Enforcement Staff under this Act are yet to be appointed". I want to know how adulteration of foodstuffs is being checked now?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the absence of the staff, at present we cannot do anything as we have taken over only from the 21st January, 1972.

Shri Maham Singh :-  During these five months was there no checking whatsoever ?

Mr. Speaker :- The question is during the last five months has there been no checking on the part of the Government.?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- I am not in a position to say, I require notice.

Shri Maham Singh :-  What is the difficulty in appointing the officers immediately ?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the matter is already in process and it take time for the Government to appoint the officer and staff.

Shri Martin Narayan Majaw :- Since five months have passed during which time so many cases of food adulteration have come to public notice. Ma we know how many months more will be taken by the Government to appoint such staff.

Mr. Speaker :-  Rome was not built in a day.

Shri Maham Singh :-  What is the difficulty in appointing the officers ?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- They are being

Mr. Speaker :-  How long will it take ?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- As soon a possible they will be appointed.

Shri Maham Singh :-  What is the difficulty in appointing them ?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :-  As soon as possible they will be appointed.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :-  If I am to assist my colleague, what is the first difficulty in appointing the staff ?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :-  As in other Departments, there are certain difficulties as we are looking for the  right men for the right jobs.

Shri Maham Singh :-  Have Government advertised for the posts. 

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :-  No, these posts have not been advertised.

Mr. Speaker :-  Is it to go through the Public Service Commission?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :-  Yes Sir.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- How long will it take to write out the advertisement. Mr. Speaker, Sir?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- As soon as possible the Government will try to make these appointments.

Promotion and transfer of Subordinate Engineers

Shri Winstone Syiemiong  asked :

15.

Will the Minister in-charge, P.W.D. (R&B) be pleased to state -

(a)

The total number of Electrical Subordinate Engineers presently working under the P.W.D. (R&B) Wing ?

(b)

Whether these Electrical Subordinate Engineers are also promoted to Divisional Officers ?

(c)

If so, what are those Divisions ?

(d)

Whether the services of these Electrical Subordinate Engineers are essential and are justified for permanent posting to those Divisions?

Shri Grohonsingh Marak (Minister of State, in-charge P.W.D. (R&B) replied :

15. (a)

The total number of Electrical Subordinate Engineers presently working under the P.W.D. (R&B) is 4 (four).

(b)

No.

(c)

Does not arise.

(d)

The services of the Electrical Subordinate Engineers are necessary in the Department as are to supervise electrical installations in Government Buildings and other constructions works of the Department. Their transfer from one Civil Division to another, therefore, depend on the demand of works.

Jowai Civil Hospital

Shri Lewis Bareh asked:

16.

Will the Minister-incharge of Health be pleased to state -

(a)

What are the total number of beds in the Jowai Civil Hospital ?

(b)

Whether Government propose to extend the construction of the Civil Hospital at Jowai ?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) : replied

16. (a)

Thirty seven beds only.

(b)

Yes.

Re. Improvement of Roads in Jaintia Hills.

Shri Enowell Pohshna  asked  :

17.

Will the Minister-incharge of Public Works Department (Roads and Building) be pleased to state -

(a)

Whether it is fact that during the year 1971-72 only one Sectional Officer, has been entrusted for the works on the three roads, namely (i) Raliang-Sahsniang Road (ii) Laskein-Borato road and the last portion to (iii) Passyih Garompani Road ?

(b)

If so, why ?

(c)

Whether Government is aware that the progress of the works on the Raliang-Sahsniang and Laskein -Borato roads is very slow ?

Shri Grohonsingh Marak (Minister, of State , in-charge P.W.D. (R&B)  replied :

17. (a)

Yes. Works on the two roads in question, viz. (i) Raliang-Sahsniang road and (ii) Laskein-Barato road was entrusted for supervision to one Sectional Officer assisted by an experienced Overseer Grade II

The Passyih-Garompani Road was received on transfer from the Government of Assam only in January, 1972.

(b)

One  Sectional Officer assisted with one Grade II Overseer is adequate to supervise the works of these roads.

(c)

The progress of works on the two roads is fairly good although there are difficulties in procurement of explosive.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know the total length of all the three roads ?

Shri Grohonsingh Marak (Minister of State, in-charge P.W.D.) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not in a position to say what is the exact length of the roads. I require notice.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  Are we also to understand that for the total expenditure for all the three roads, notice will be required by the Minister ?

Shri Grohonsingh Marak (Minister of State, in-charge P.W.D.) :- This also I am not in a position to reply.

Mr. Speaker :-  So far as expenditure is concerned, the Government will have to come to this Assembly within a few minutes from now.

Officers and staff of P.W.D. Office, Jowai Division

Shri Enowell Pohshna  asked :

17.

Will the Minister-incharge of Public Works Department (Roads and Buildings) be pleased to state  who are the persons appointed as Office Assistants, Road Muharis and Overseers in the Public Works Department Office of the Jowai Division during the last two years ? (to be furnished with names).

Shri Grohonsingh Marak (Minister of State, in-charge P.W.D. (R&B)  replied :

18.

A list of persons appointed as Office Assistants, Road Muharis and Overseers under Jowai Division during the last two years is placed on the Library's table.

Amount allotted for Jowai District Council

Shri Lewis Bareh asked :

19.

Will the Minister-in-charge of Community Development be pleased to state -

(b)

What was the amount allotted for the Jowai Autonomous District Council during the final years 1970-71 and 1971-72?

(b)

The Schemes in which the amount spent.

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Community Development Department) replied :

19. (a)

No amount was allotted from the Community Development Department for Jowai Autonomous District Council during the financial years 1970-71 and 1971-72.

(b)

Does not arise.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Mr. Speaker Sir, whether any amount for road construction was allotted to the Jowai District Council in 1971-72 by the Community Development ?

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Community Development Department) :- The answer is very clear that the Community Development has never given any6 grant to the District Council.


VOTING ON DEMANDS FOR GRANTS

Mr. Speaker :-  The question hour is over. Now let us pass on to Item No. 2. Mr. S.D.D. Nichols-Roy to move Grant No. 4.

Grant No. 4.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Transport) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move that an amount of Rs. 2,99,600 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment for the year ending 31st March 1973 for the administration of the head "1- Taxes on Vehicles".

Mr. Speaker :-  The Motion is moved. But I have received four cut motions which stands in the names of four hon. Members, Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh, Shri S.D. Khongwir, Shri Humphrey Hadem and Shri H. E. Pohshna. Now, Mr. Lyngdoh to move the cut motions.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 2,99,600, under Grant No. 4. Major Head "II- Taxes on Vehicles" at page 23 of the Budget, be reduced to Rs. 1, i.e., the amount of the whole Demand of Rs. 2,99,600 do stand reduced to Rs. 1.00.

Mr. Speaker :-  The cut motion is moved. I will give only five minutes.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the object of moving this cut motion is to bring to the notice of the Minister-in-charge that in the budget under the head 'Taxes on Vehicles', in the receipts of last year, i.e. 1971-72, the total collection was Rs. 5,36,200. Whereas we learn that during the regime of the Government of Assam when our State has not been born, the total collection even from the Khasi Hills district alone was in between .... So, I wonder, Mr. Speaker, why our Government in 1971-72 could not maintain the tempo.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Transport) :- On a point of clarification, whether the hon. Member said Rs. 10 thousand or Rs. 15 thousand per year?

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :-  10 lakhs to 15 lakhs per year. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we find always here in this district of Khasi and Jaintia Hills that there are many vehicles  which are moving about in the district without any license. There is no proper checking. Also Sir, this department regarding the registration of vehicles, there is no proper checking. Now, many of the vehicles are rotten vehicles, but they were registered as vehicles in tip top conditions they have been registered for carrying public goods and also passengers. Many of the cars here, Stations Wagons and Buses thus registered are running on the roads and also many accidents are there due to the condition of the cars themselves and also due to carelessness of the drivers, drinking and lack of experience in driving. Many of the boys in this town have been given licences who do not know even to read the sign board in the streets and so many accidents took place.

        Now, regarding the management of this transport business Mr. Speaker, Sir, we find that Government has got no machinery for proper management and checking, etc. and also regarding the collection of revenue which in fact, will be one of the important sources of revenue in the State. Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the revenue collected from taxes on vehicles the Government has a good share to be paid to the District Council. So far I know, the Government since last year does not give any share to the District Council. I do not know Mr. Speaker, Sir, what will be the position of the District Councils. As far as we learn the District Councils are in a very critical position in finance. With all these facts that I have experienced and with these few words I move the Cut Motion on this grant.

Mr. Speaker :-  May I request the Hon'ble Minister to explain.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, can I have a chance to speak a few words ?

Mr. Speaker :-  Yes, I will give you 3 minutes. The main mover will get 5 minutes.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, since there is not time, I will make it as short as possible. I may refer to this as a revenue earning department. Uptill now, the Government had not taken steps even for taking charge of the administration. And what I mean, up till now, the emblem of the State has not been decided and issued. Some of the owners have already paid their taxes and have not yet been issued with any token and, moreover, regarding the arrangement for payment of taxes in the newly created Jaintia Hills District nothing has been done up till now. Nobody has been authorised to collect the revenue and, as such, there will be huge loss of revenue according to the present set up as made by the Government. As such, Sir, I think that by establishing the office at Jowai or anywhere in Jaintia Hills district, the Government will be at a loss and for this reason Sir, I support the Motion as moved.

Shri Enowell Pohshna :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, while supporting the Cut Motion. I will say a few words. Under the present set up, all these taxes on vehicles were levied on the owner of vehicles. These tax payers were at a loss to know whether the taxes paid by them are legally deposited in the office of the Meghalaya Government whereas the receipt stands in the Assam Government. Secondly, Sir, Jaintia Hills has been declared a  separate district but Sir, it is surprising to know that there is no  District Transport officer in Jowai and so the people are at a loss know whether they will pay the taxes to the Sub-divisional Officer Jowai to Shillong or to Nowgong.

(Laughter)    

or anywhere, Sir. Therefore, Sir, I would request the Government to clarify the position as clearly as possible. Of course, there is a challenge to the validity of this receipt on in case we challenge, for example, in not paying the taxes or for non-issue of a token tax by the Government, then in that case the vehicles are detained in Gauhati or somewhere. The Meghalaya Government did not issue any token tax whereas the same has been already paid to the Government of Assam. With these few words I request the Minister-in-change of this 'Taxes on vehicles' to clarify these points.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy, (Minister, Transport) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the division of receipt there are transitional periods and it is a fact that there are certain departments the Transport departments, is one which are in a transitional condition. Steps have been taken and so far as arrangements in the Jaintia Hills District are concerned, it is still under the District Transport Officer located in Shillong. Regarding opening of the office, I have already stated  earlier in this House that the department are examining and it is under consideration of the Government. Each particular officer and each particular department which requires a separate District Officer immediately,  is to be examined because  there may be some officers that can function from Shillong for the time being and others that may require immediate up-grading in Jaintia Hills. This is as already stated by the Chief Minister earlier and in fact it is under the consideration of the Government that within a very short period of time this decision will be taken and the Members, will be informed about it. Regarding the changing of Number plates of vehicles for Meghalaya we have taken  over the department only this year. The number plated are enforced under the Central Motor Vehicles Act and we are still maintaining this Act. The amendment Bill that is going to be considered before the House will consider this. The new numbers will will be incorporated  with the Central Act after amendment. The question of having our own strong enforcement machinery is under consideration. Recently regarding the share of the District Councils, this will be looked into immediately. Last year it was being collected by the Assam Government and it will be looked into immediately. Regarding  the condition  of the bad vehicles.' Registration private or public vehicles, this question is to be examined by the Motor Vehicle Inspector or the Motor Vehicle Inspector and they are to be made up to certain standard. If the vehicles are not up to the standard expected of them they are not supposed to be put on the road. Therefore, any intimation or complaint regarding this should be  brought to the notice of the Motor Vehicle Inspector, Secretary of the department, the Director or  myself at the earliest opportunity. The department itself will look into this matter and we are trying to great up the machinery. This has not been functioning very well. Immediately, this will require considerable staff to meet the increasing demand and so far as the Transport Department is concerned we have taken over the department only on 21st January, 1972 and current revenue estimates are 17.41 lakhs last year. The member who moved the cut-motion has mentioned that there was only 5.362 lakhs but for the current years' revenue estimates are 17.41 lakhs last year. The Member who moved the Cut motion has mentioned that there was only 5.3672 lakhs but for the current year's revenue estimates  are 17.41 lakhs since we have taken over in January, 21st. The receipts last year, will probably not reflect the total receipts for the full State. So far as  illegality of the  tax is concerned, I am informed that the taxes are legal. The old receipts are being used and new receipts are being printed and tokens also are under print. It will not take very long, I am told, to complete this process. With this explanation, I request the member to withdraw his cut-motion. We shall correct may of the anomalies and drawbacks and problems in this Department and this collection machinery at earliest.

Shri H. Hadem :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, only one point more to be clarified. We are told that the offices here at Shillong are to deal with cases of Jaintia Hills for collection of taxes and others. Whether any notification has been issued for the purpose ?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy, (Minister, Transport) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, as far as I know, no notification has been issued. But in all cases functioning of the offices in Shillong has covered the new district and it is only when we bifurcated the Department or appoint new officers that notification will be issued.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :-  One more point Sir, I want to get clarification from the Minister, that is regarding total collection of last year, it has been stated that Rs. 1,23,000/ was collected from the whole State, but we know, as I have said, that the total collection used to be between 10 to 15 lakhs. That question has not been replied. I want to get a clarification as to how this small collection has been made last year.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy, (Minister, Transport) :-  As I said earlier. the collection for last year would be shown in the receipts under Assam. The collection so far it relates to the period from 21st January, uptil 31st March would be shown in Meghalaya that is why you see only a small amount for 1971-72.

Mr. Speaker :-  Is the hon. Member willing to withdraw the cut-motion?

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :-  After hearing the explanation from the Minister-in-charge, I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :-  Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion ? The cut-motion is with leave of the House withdrawn. Now I put the main question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs. 2,99,600, be granted to the Minister-incharge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "11 - Taxes on Vehicles". The motion is adopted, the demand is passed. May I request Mr. Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy to move grant No.22.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy, (Minister, Transport) :-  Mr.  Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, to move that an amount of Rs. 4,66,100 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the "26-Miscellaneous Departments-V-Civil Supplies Department".

Mr. Speaker :-  The motion is moved but I have received notice of a cut-motion form Mr. Enowell Pohshna.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna :-  I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 4,66,100 under Grant No. 22 Major Head "26- Miscellaneous Department-V-Civil Supplies Department at Page 106 of the Budget, be reduced to Rs.1/- i.e. the amount of the whole Demand of Rs. 4,66,100 do stand reduced to Re.1.

Mr. Speaker :-  The cut motion is moved.

Shri E.H. Pohshna :-  Sir, while moving this cut motion, I have come across certain difficulties with regard to the expenditure under Grant No. 22. Sir, the actual expenditure for 1970-71 of the State is Rs. 1680 whereas, for the District, it is Rs. 1,20,292 I do not understand why our Department of such important subjects like Civil Supplies has to spend only Rs. 1680-/- for the whole State whereas in the Districts, Rs. 1,29,292/-. That is the clarification that I want to get from the Minister-in-charge. But while you come to the budget estimates for 1972-73, the amount comes to Rs. 81,340 and the receipts for the Districts are put at Rs. 3,84,800/- where they could not spend even a sum of Rs. 2,000/- during the current year, 1970-71. I want to know  why such a huge demand has been made before the House.

Mr. Speaker :-  Anybody to support the cut motion?

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- I support the cut motion. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in support of it, I would like to point out that it is very difficult for us to understand what exactly the Civil the Civil Supply Department intends  to do this year. Since the year 1970-71 from budget estimates for the State including the State level and District level, the amount, comes to Rs.4,38,800 and whether they would be able to utilise this sum of Rs. 1,25,000. This Mr. Speaker, Sir, is not a case of being economical or trying to save the money, it is a case of being penny wise and pound foolish. I may have occasions to point out numerous other examples of the same type of malady of the administration here particularly where the lives of persons are concerned, since these supplies appertains particularly to the essential commodities that the people need for their daily life. We fail to understand how in the year 1970-71 where the budget estimate for the whole State, excluding Districts, was Rs. 1,82,100 they spent duly one Rs. 1,680/-. Another point I want to raise regarding Civil Supply Department is that, some of us know, there are small contractors who are supposed to carry supplies to the persons in the border areas, particularly in the Balat region who have been affected by the influx of Bangladesh refugees in the last year. The quantity of goods that they are supposed to carry is no doubt small, but they get help from the Government for carriage. They take these goods and deliver them to the people. They are supposed to deliver them to our own people who are suffering in the various villages along the Bangladesh border. Unfortunately, almost all of them  do not go there. Almost all the supplies are sold off. As has come to our knowledge, all these  goods, particularly rice and sugar, are sold off with the connivance of certain persons in the Department. Therefore, I want the Minister-in-charge to look into this matter because the people are not receiving the gods. While the goods are being lifted from Shillong they never reach their destination.

Mr. Speaker :-  Let me make the House understand that instead of giving the hon. Members chances to utilise the weapon and on the last day to take resort to guillotine, it is better that I allow the hon. Member and the seconder at least to raise general discussions and after that they will call upon the Minister-in-charge to reply to each of the Cut Motions. You will have time to discuss at least some of the grievances that a particular Member would like to inform the House or to keep the Government informed. So I think the hon. member will not mind because, I think, that will be more practicable.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  I want only one minute.

Mr. Speaker  :-  Then I will allow you.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  What I want to point out is that the hon. Member has said that the amount is very small. But to me it looks fairly big. The whole amount has been spent for the establishment the cost of establishment and others. Regarding supply of sugar, I would like to bring to the notice of the House that civil supplies are very poor especially in the rural areas. It is a miracle to learn that about 600 or 700 houses have to depend only on one bag of sugar containing one quintal and as such, if this Department is worth at all, I think, some special attention should be paid to this Department so that by supplying only small quantities, we will not create discontentment among the poor inhabitants, to whom these articles are distributed.

Mr. Speaker :-  May I request the Minister to reply.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy, (Minister, Transport) :-   Mr. Speaker, Sir, I quite appreciate the remarks made by some of the members who have spoken. As regards the expenditure, low expenditure in 1970-71, it may be recalled that this was concurrent subject during the autonomous State days and the Department at the State level had not been fully organised. The District offices only were taken over from 2nd April, 1970. Now we have become a full-fledged State and we are on our own. Hence we have to look after all our supplies and since 21st January, 1972 there is the need for a larger amount for the State level organisation. Now, Mr. Majaw from Mawhati has brought out a very important point which I agree with. There are a number of cases that have been brought to my attention that the dealers do not take the supplies which are meant for the border areas and Government gives transport subsidy for supplies. It has come to our notice and I have  called the Supply officers and the staff concerned to look into it. We have appointed checkers. We have also started  to review the whole method of distribution to eliminate this type of misuse and if any particular instance is brought to our notice, I would appreciate the assistance form Members, particularly those who are located in the border areas, where this work is supposed to be done, so that civil supplies will reach the people fro whom  it meant. We do have people in our State who indulge in such activities that it is upto the Department  and the people concerned to check this. We are trying to evolve a better system so that we can check the misuse of Government funds and that the supplies do reach the people. One of the systems is to have better information and to set up Checking Committees. These Committees are supposed to be in each border centre and information has to be sent to them and checking has to be done by these Vigilance Committees. Checking has to be done more frequently to see that the supplies do actually reach the people and we are reviewing the whole matter and a new system may be evolved. We are trying to evolve a new distribution system so that we can ensure  that the supplies do reach the people concerned. Mr. Hadem brought up the question of sugar. Civil Supply of sugar is in a difficult position at  the moment because of two factors. Levy Sugar, meant to be sold at a controlled price, is on a certain percentage of the total production in India. The requirement of sugar in Meghalaya works out @ 1 kg per adult per months to 750 metric tones excluding the requirements for military, police hotels, restaurants and bakeries. If you add up all these requirements, it may come to more then 900 tonnes, but against this demand of 750 metric tonnes per month, the Government of India have allotted to Meghalaya only 350 tonnes per month, for the last several months. The matter has been taken up at the official level as well as the ministerial level both by the Chief Minister and myself. But the Government of India have regretted their inability to increase the supply of levy sugar, that is the sugar at the controlled price. The balance of the sugar is meant for the open market. This is not under the control of the Supply  Department of the Government. It flows through trade channels. Enforcement machinery is being geared up and steps are being taken to persuade the traders to bring in more supplies. Therefore, in view of the very small quantity of sugar that has been allotted the Government of India to our State, we are in difficult position so far as sugar is concerned. So I would request the hon. Member to withdraw his cut motion.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have a demand to the tune of 750 metric tonnes whereas we are having only 350 metric tonnes and I kilogram per head whereas we are supposed to have 1½ kilogram per head. So how this position has come?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Supply) :-  I am not quite clear as to how the hon. Member has referred to this calculation. The supply is supposed to be worked out on the basis of 1 kilogram per head per month. According to the system of getting 750 metric tonnes from the Government of India we are getting only 350 metric tonnes, and this supply is supposed to be distributed through the fair price shops that are established throughout the State.

Mr. Speaker :- The comments of the hon. Member are according to the calculation of 750 metric tonnes meant for distribution. From the figures worked out, it is only half.. But how is that in the market i.e.¼th of a kilogram ?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Supply) :-  I have no information of the actual amount per head.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, on calling for clarification on the points raised by me, I have done so because in the budget why the estimate of Rs. 48,000 has been drawn ? Secondly, regarding the Supply Department, I am very happy that the Minister has pointed out the anomalies in the Supply Department. Perhaps, the blame will be as "who will bell the cat". This deserves proper checking. It is far better to suggest to transfer the whole staff in the Supply Department in the district level as per C.B.I. rules elsewhere. Anyway I will suggest for working out C.B.I. rules in Supply Department.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the Conference held in New Delhi we were discussing about supply system in the whole county including the State of Meghalaya. My colleague has given the indication that the Government itself is not satisfied with the present system of distribution. At present the hon. Members are aware that in our fair price shops we have estimated the quantity which is supposed to reach to the particular distribution centre which is supposed to be checked by the members and the Chairman of the Vigilance Committee. Therefore, it is not only the person in the checking department who is responsible for actual quantity to reach the distribution centre but our own public leaders are also responsible to see that the actual quantity is reached. But if unfortunately our own set up cannot do with the help of Vigilance Committee, I do not know whether by mere transferring the staff of Supply Department to some other departments we are going to bring remedy to that. I would, therefore, make an appeal to the Members of the House to see that the distribution system throughout the State can be strengthened and made more effective. I will take the responsibility to examined the particular aspects of the matter with my colleagues that whatever quantity is allotted to the State will properly distributed to the entire areas of the State. With this assurance, I hope the Members will also exercise their co-operation. With this assurance I hope the Member will be satisfied with the existing system of  distribution and will withdraw his Cut Motion.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Supply) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, my last remark about the amount of increase in the budget on State terms rather than district terms of 1972-73. This was taken over to the district staff and the additional amount required this year is for the State terms. The distribution also in Shillong is on the basis of 400 grams per month. This is in reply to one of the Members. I would like to put one more remark about the checking as to "who will bell the cat". This is not only Supply Department to check but somebody else.

Mr. Speaker : I think this remark is made for someone else.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Supply) :- I would  like to add that I had already stated to some of the border M.L.As and I will take the official opportunity to call upon all the members of the border so that we can put our heads together to see what is to be done. With these words I would like to request the hon. Member to withdraw the Cut Motion. I have already clarified that, on State level it was not properly organised in the first two years because Assam is here still. It will be done in this year in full measure.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I shall be a very cruel Member if I do not withdraw the cut motion in spite of the fact that have sympathy with the Government after admitting so many difficulties for getting sugar. But before I withdraw, I would like to tell a story. That sugar is so sweet but when I happened to be in Bangladesh I found that the price of Indian sugar is so high there. With these words I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :-  Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the cut motion. The motion ? is with leave of the House withdrawn. Now I put the question before the House. the question is that an amount of Rs. 4,66,100 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain changes which will come in course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the "26-Miscellaneous Departments-V-Civil Supplies Department".

(The Motion is carried. the Demand is passed )

         Now Grant No. 23 to be moved by Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that an amount of Rs. 4,00,000/- be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "27- Scientific Department".

Mr. Speaker :-  I have received a notice or cut motion to be moved by Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 4,00,000 under Grant No. 23, Major Head "27-Scientific Department", at page 108 of the Budget, be reduced to Rs. 1.00 i.e., the Amount of the whole demand of Rs. 4,00,000 stand reduced to Re. 1.00.

Mr. Speaker :- The cut motion is moved.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, as you all know that the Budget passed by the Finance Minister is a deficit Budget showing a deficit of more than 7 crores of rupees. But this deficit could have been reduced if the Government would have earnestly got down the task of mining in the State since our State has got vas mineral deposits of various kinds. Although this Government has come into power since last 2 years, which is a very long time,  it has not done anything earnestly in getting down the task of raising the revenue from this sector. Unfortunately, here also under the Head - "Scientific Department", it has been shown that the actual expenditure involved in 1970-71, as per Budget provision, was rupees 7 lakhs one thousand. But actual only Rs. 2 lakhs 81 thousand was spent in 1971-72. A very nice explanation from the Minister-in-charge, as I anticipate, would be that since the Assam Government has also a Department of Mines yet we could have also another such Department of our own. In any case, the persons who are entrusted with the duty of preparing the Budget are responsible person. The Budget estimate for the year 1970-71 was to the tune of Rs. 7 lakhs one thousand. But more than half of the amount was returned to the Government of India since they could not utilise the whole amount. Only 2 lakhs 81 thousand was spent. The big error committed by this Government was that they continued the scheme under Assam Mineral Development Corporation. Now it is difficult to understand why the Assam Mineral Development Corporation, which was established as far back as 1964, did very little for the State of Meghalaya, i.e. for our District. Now, it has become imperative for our Government to have a Mineral Development Corporation of our own particularly in view of the fact that major mineral deposits are located in the State and not in Assam. So I recommend that Meghalaya Government should set up a Mineral Development Corporation. It is not known as to why the Minister concerned while visiting abroad could not have come forward to help us in the Department of Mineralogy and also those qualified persons form our State to run this Development Corporation instead of maintaining a staff only as has been done by Assam Mineral Development Corporation.

Mr. Speaker :-  Is there anybody to support the cut motion ?

Shri Enowell Pohshna :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support the cut motion but have no idea about scientific development. I have heard during the Question hour that the qualification of the Director of Agriculture has got so many Sc, Sc..........

(Laughter)

Mr. Speaker :-  To get these Scs. is not so easy. Now, may I request the Minister-in-charge to give a reply ?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in 1970-71 when the Budget  was prepared, Government had anticipated already to have our own Directorate. But it was only recently started and it was the Directorate of the Assam Government to which we have contributed for the work done in Meghalaya.. Now, I would like to give a few of the items or the actual field works done in 1970-71 for the benefit of the Members who raised the Cut Motion.

DETAILS OF FIELD WORK FOR THE FIELD SEASON  1970-71.

        (1) Detailed exploration by large scale mapping  and drilling in the mineralized belt for gold in the Tyrsad area, Khasi Hills. Drilling 470 running meters.

        (2) Large scale mapping and sampling for cement and chemical grade limestone along the Jowai-Badarpur Road, Jaintia Hills. Area covered 7.2 sq.kms.

         (3) Investigation of Kaolin occurrences near Darugiri, Garo Hills. Area covered by large scale mapping 2. sq. kms.

        (4) Providing by drilling of limestone deposits near Darrang-Era-Aning, Garo Hills. Area covered by large scale mapping 1.77 sq   kms. One bore-hole drilled to a depth of 55 meters.

Details of filed work carried out during 1971-72 Field Season :-

        1. Proving of coal deposits by drilling in the Laitdoh area, Khasi Hills was completed. 2 (two)  bore-holes drilled with a total depth of 85 meters.

        2. Geological mapping of coal occurrences around Bapung area, Jaintia Hills was completed. 19 sq. kms. of detailed mapping has been done. Proving of the deposits by drilling is proposed for 1972-73 field season.

        3. Detailed geological investigation for white clay deposits in the Songsak areas, Garo Hills was completed. Area covered 2 sq. kms..

        4. Mineral investigation in the Barapani area, Khasi Hills has been partially done. Continuation of the same is proposed for the 1972-73 field season.

        5. Detailed geological mapping and contouring for limestone deposits in Darrang-Era-Aning and Pathargithim villages, Garo Hills has been completed. Area covered 1.5. sq. kms.

        6. Proving of coal deposits by drilling in the Rongkhandi areas (near Nangalbibra), Garo Hills is still continuing. Upto 12th June 1972 3 (three) Nos. boreholes have been completed and 2 (two) more are still under drilling. The total depth of drilling upto 12th June 1972 is 246.5 running meters. Now for 1972-73, the different items are as follows :-

        Item No. 1.  Continuation of proving of limestone and coal deposits by drilling near Darrang-Era-Aniang, Garo Hills District.

        Details of work load :  Test drilled - 800 meters.

        Item No. 2. :  Continuation of proving of coal deposits by drilling near Rongkhandi village, Garo Hills.

        Details of work load :- Test Drilling - 200 meters.

        Item No 3 :- Detailed investigation of coal occurrence by drilling around  Bapung area, Jaintia Hills District.

        Detailed of Work Load -

(i)

Mapping and Contouring by Plane Tabling (Scale 1:2000 Contour  Interval - 3 mts.)

...

...

15. Sq. Kms.

(ii)

Test Drilling.

...

...

500 metres.

        Item No. 4. :- Detailed investigation for limestone deposits by mapping and sampling around Siju area, Garo Hills District.

        Details of work load -    

(i)

Mapping for delineation of different grades scale 1:3000

(ii)

Area : 12 sq. kms.

(iii)

Samples - Every 300 metres.

           Item No. 5 :  Detailed investigation of lithomargic clay deposits in the Rongrenggiri Area, Garo Hills District.

Details of work load -  

(i)

Large scale mapping - (1 : 5000)

(ii)

Pitting and sampling as required.

        Item No. 6. : Proving of the Kaolin deposit near Mawphlang, Khasi Hills District by trenching, pitting and drilling.

        Details of work load -  

(i)

Drilling - 400 metres.

Trenching and pitting - as required.

        Item No. 7 -  Mineral investigation in the Barapani area, Khasi Hills District.

        Details of the Work Load

Mapping - 50 sq. kms.

(Scale - 1 15:840).

        Mr. Speaker Sir, these are the details of some works done by the Department of Geology and Mining which we have renamed now as the Department of Mineral Resources. So far as the amount spent is  concerned in 1970-71 it was Rs. 2.81 lakhs, 1971-72 it was Rs. 3 lakhs and for 1972-73 it is Rs. 4 lakhs i.e. regular and gradual increased trend of expenditure. So far as the Mineral Development Corporation is concerned, they have already undertaken some works for Mining. It is this Department which is to do scientific explorations, mapping and so on and so forth and the Mineral Development Corporation is supposed to do the actual mining. We are at the moment examining this question of the pros and cons and feasibility of setting up a separate Mineral Development corporation. There are some advantages to have a joint  Corporation and there are also advantages to have our own. We shall be looking into this matter and study it very carefully and the Government will come to a decision soon as to whether we shall have a joint Corporation or a separate Corporation. for the mineral exploration and mining. But in many parts of the country. Mining is actually being done by the Companies, Private Corporations, etc. This is one of the Organisations which will do  mining, but mining it also actually done by individual or private concerns. The Mineral Development Corporation is one of those organisations which is doing mining. In addition,  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like just to mention that in order to be able to make use of the minerals available in the best possible manner it is required to assess the extent of mineral deposits and their quality through field investigation and scientific analysis. To do these works it is necessary to have geologists and other technical staff. Scientific  tools and implements are also necessary for the purpose. The amount proposed in the Budget is merely to defray the expenditures required for pay and allowances of these officers and staff. Provisions have also been made for contingency expenditure covering such expenditures like house rent for the office, stationery, and stores, purchase of drilling equipments and machinery, vehicles, maintenance of vehicles, etc. All this expenditure is inevitable if the Directorate of Mineral Resources is to function and implement the programmes for the public interest. There are three wings under the Directorate, viz., "Geology and Mining", "Intensive Mineral Investigations" and "Laboratory and Analytical Unit".

Prof M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we have a clarification whether this Mineral Development Corporation is a joint Corporation ? If so, has rule been framed to protect the interest of Meghalaya ?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  Not yet. It is functioning in both that areas. According to the Re-organisation Act any Corporation continues to function until.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, then how are we to explain that the Government purchases Rs. 2 lakhs as share in the Assam Mineral Development ?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :- We have participated only in shares but it functions as a Corporation for us. But we shall decide whether to divide the assets and liabilities as any other Joint Corporation or any Organisation which is functioning for Meghalaya. A decision in this regard will have to be taken in each case whether to bifurcate and so on., as we are doing now for the Department.

Prof. M.N. Majaw (Mawhati S.T.) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very serious situation. Rules have not yet been framed but a share of Rs. 2 lakhs has been invested. How the Meghalaya Government can protect the interest of this Rs. 2 lakhs invested in the Mineral Development Corporation when there are no rules framed to protect and safeguard the money of Meghalaya ?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :- Rules in any Corporation govern the interest of the shareholders who are in that Corporation. The shareholders are the Assam Government and the Meghalaya Government. Now we have 2 nominees on the Board to look after the interest of Meghalaya so far as the work of Meghalaya is concerned.

Mr. Speaker :-  Will the hon. Member  be pleased to withdraw the Cut Motion ?

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hope some rules should be there since there is an amount of Rs. 2 lakhs invested. Rules are necessary to govern the sharing of this money.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, at least we want a clarification from the Minister-in-charge on how or what is the procedure and under what rules this money has been sanctioned and proposed to be utilised ? Is there and rule to protect this money which is being invested by the Government.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, in any Corporation or Company there are by-laws ; there are rules and regulations. These rules govern directions and will  take care of the investments of the shareholders and there is no need for special rules to be added for the shareholders who participate in that Corporation or Company concerned. The question that we should have a separate corporation completely separated from the Assam Mineral Development Corporation is being taken up and it is under examination.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, the point is that this is a special case. The major belt of mineral resources is in Meghalaya. In view of the huge mineral deposits here in our State, the Government has invested Rs. 2 lakhs in that Corporation!

Mr. Speaker :-  I think the question is about the amount of Rs. 2 lakhs and not the question whether Meghalaya has more minerals.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  Sir, since the Minister's reply is that there is no general rules, I think there should be general rules or specific rules since Meghalaya has more mineral resources. How can we divide the dividend ?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a matter which is covered by the general provisions of the Re-organisation Act when any Corporation  or Company which functions in the State are to be taken over by us. These are provided in the provisions of the Re-organisation Act and such provision has generally been laid down in the case of other States also. In any case, Mr. Speaker, Sir, this particular grant is for the Department of Mineral Resources which is totally under Meghalaya and the capital grant for mineral development corporation actually comes under Grant No. 96 i.e, for the Development Corporation, capital outlay comes under this item

Mr. Speaker :-  You should have explained this right at the beginning.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  I was not aware earlier Sir.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- In view of the enlightenment Mr. Speaker, Sir, I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :-  Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion ?

        The cut motion is, with leave of the House withdrawn.

        Now, the question is that an amount of Rs. 4,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "27-Scientific Departments."

        The motion is adopted and the grant is passed.

Mr. Speaker :-  May I request Shri S.D.D Nichols Roy to move grant No. 34 ?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  On the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, Sir, to move that an amount of Rs. 19,85,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973, for the administration of the head "35-Industries-I Sericulture and Weaving".

Mr. Speaker :-  The motion is moved. Now, I have received a cut motion standing in the name of Prof. M.N. Majaw. May I request Prof. Majaw to move his cut motion?

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 19,85,000 under Grant No. 34, Major Head "35- Industries-I-Sericulture and Weaving", at page 219 of the Budget, be reduced to Re. 1.00, i.e., the amount of the whole Demand of 19,85,000, do stand reduced to Re. 1.00.

Mr. Speaker :- The Cut Motion is moved. You may raise a general discussion.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are so many sections under the industries Department. But I will confine myself to only one section because it is very difficult to take up all the sections of the Department. As I have said, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will confine myself to one section, i.e., with regard to Sericulture and Weaving. This is an industry which is widely known and carried on by our hills people. Some of our people are exceptionally skilled in the matter of weaving they are doing in their own villages and there are some others who are not skilled weavers. Therefore, steps should be taken to have the people trained in order to raise the quality of weaving. For this purpose, Mr. Speaker, Sir, weaving has been an age-old and  important industry in the districts, because it is at the village level that  they really do the work and therefore, encouragement and help should be given to the  people in the art of sericulture and weaving. For example, in Bhoi area, weaving has been an ancient occupation of the people there. The standard and quality of weaving were exceptionally done by the people.  But Mr. Speaker, Sir, these people and especially those called the Lalungs are the most neglected people in the State who, I described the other day, are living in their own pre-mediaeval work and natural dress. They are exceptionally skilled in the matter of weaving, but they could not enlarge and improve their trade and profession for want of financial assistance from the Government. Whatever help and assistance given by the Government for the Block, it could never reach them. Apart form the administration level of the officers visiting the area no assistance from the Sericulture Department had actually reached the place which might have been due to the inefficiency of the peons who might not have gone to such distant places. So immediate steps should be taken to see that financial assistance reaches the people of Lalung areas. That is why I am requesting the Government to examined the possibility to give relief and and assistance on the village level. On this account, Mr. Speaker, Sir,  there are a number of applications for grants, etc. sent by them to the Block but these applications got lost in the office of the Block Development Officer and they never reached the headquarters. This is the state of things that has been going on in the office of the Block Development Officer, Bhoi Area, Umsning, that no grant or assistance is really received at all by the people after a year or so. 

        The efficiency and activities of a Department with regard to giving help to the people is publicly known by the actual work it has performed. We have seen in the statement of account for 1970-71 that out of the amount of Rs. 10,00,000 allotted, the Sericulture Department has been able to utilise only Rs. 6,00,000 and I do not know whether this amount has been properly utilised for distribution to genuine people who actually do the weaving.

        Therefore, Mr. Speaker in order to give encouragement to people  to go in for weaving and sericulture, I feel that assistance should be given in the interior villages, so that they can also train others in the job. Some of our weavers in our area really produce good and fines quality silk and shawls, but they are handicapped due to lack of finance. Some of them had to sell the cocoons at low prices as demanded by the middlemen who are coming from Gauhati. They sell the cocoons at Rs. 10.00 a k.g. which could be sole at Rs. 42.00 or Rs. 43.00 a k.g. in Bombay or Calcutta. So some steps should be taken by the Government to give assistance to these people, and also to teach them not to eat these cocoons. A corporation on sericulture and weaving should be set up and that Inspectors should make arrangement to purchase the cocoons at a slightly higher price.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, in supporting the Cut Motion I have only to say that in my constituency there are two forms of societies for the improvement of sericulture industries. But the one... doloiship and the other... are not being provided with any demonstrator up till now. I do not see any demonstration worth the name to be done by them. Again some Inspectors, thought for serving policy have been deputed by the Department did not take this scheme seriously, so that the schemes already mentioned failed, in putting in operation for keeping the insects for procuring cocoons. In view of the facts, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support the Cut Motion by requesting the Hon'ble Minister that since we have been all along to withdraw the Cut Motion at least by taking the suggestion. With this few words, I may resume my seat.

Shri D.D. Lapang :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with the hon. Member for moving this Cut Motion because the public did not have the encouragement form the Department in the past years. My constituency consists of 10 to 15 villages inhabited by the people along the border of Kamrup and Meghalaya. The people have already taken to weaving but they are using yard for themselves as they do not have facilities to expand the trade in such a way that they would be able to earn their own living. So I suggest that Government should provide sufficient fund for the border area of Kamrup and Meghalaya so that the people will have sufficient help form the Government and the facilities prevailing in the State will be extended to them.

Mr. Speaker :-  May I request the Hon'ble Minister-in-charge to speak.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am grateful to the hon. Members for bringing some information about the sericulture in some parts in our State to which my attention has been drawn. First of all, Sericulture and Weaving Department had not been given the funds to provide loans to  Co-operative Societies in the past. Only from this year this Department not the Co-operation Department, will be providing loans to the Co-operative Societies which are doing handloom work, sericulture work, and Weaving societies which were mentioned by the hon. Member, Shri Hadem. We had not taken care of this in the past. We shall certainly look into their requirement for 1972-73. I do mean, they will be receiving adequate attention. We have a separate office in the State level with experienced officials. Budget allotment has been increased. In view of the fact  that the whole amount has been suggested to be cut to Re. 1.00. I am afraid this will have just the opposite effect of what the members have been stating. More work has to be done to take care of the people who have not been given particular attention in the past. We  have areas concentrated in the Garo Hills also and all facilities are being given to the people so far as funds are available to the Government. The practice of pupa eating is now being discouraged. Rs. 6. 00 per dozen cocoons is being given form the Government Reeling Unit. In the Bhoi Area of Khasi Hills, in the village of Marngar much attention is being paid to Sericulture and weaving. We have provided looms and accessories in the area and given some technical demonstrations. Grants-in-aid are regularly  given to the people in that area and utilisation certificates are received also. I do just wonder whether we could take up additional centres somewhere in the Lalung area mentioned by the Member from Mawhati. This will be considered. There are difficulties of communication and the officers, as I said earlier, and the whole Department had not been receiving much attention. I must confess that most of the people of Khasi Hills have not been known to be weavers, and only certain areas, as I have already pointed out to the members, from the Bhoi Area Constituencies have been interested in weaving and sericulture farms. People of Garo Hills have been always interested in these particular activities. But there are a number of schemes and programmes for the improvement and expansion of different centres and I shall just outline some of the items of the particular department form the 5 broad based schemes for implementing in the current year  within number 6 as against 4 in 1971-72. The following accounts of improvement programme under the current year may be mentioned with a view to previous years so as to effect further industries in support of Eri and Mulberry:

        1. Expansion of the existing Sericulture Farms :-  At Shillong, Ummulong (Jowai) and Tura as well as the existing Eri Seed Grainages at Nongpoh and Tura and the Foreign Race Seed Station at Ummulong (Jowai). Necessary provisions for the purpose are made under the respective schemes in order to equip the Farms/Grainages with additional instruments, appliances, constructions of additional buildings and repair works etc.

        2. Establishment of Eri Concentration Centres :- In the current year, 3 Eri Concentration Centres are proposed to be started-one each in Khasi Hills, Jaintia Hills and Garo Hills districts besides maintenance of the existing ones number in 4 at Nayabunglow (Khasi Hills), Baroto (Jaintia Hills), Rongram and Harinkata (in Garo Hills). Necessary provisions are made to give common facilities of land, fencing, manure, etc. so as to enable the Eri rearers to take up plantation of Eri food plants for production of Cocoons.

        3. Establishment of Collective Mulberry Gardens :-  In the current year, 3 Collective Mulberry Gardens are proposed to be established (one each in the districts of Khasi Hills, Jaintia Hills and Garo Hills), beside maintenance of the existing one numbering 18. As in the case of Eri Concentration Centres these Gardens provide common facilities of land fencing, manure etc. to enable the village rearers to take up mulberry plantation for production of cocoons; and necessary provisions for the purpose are made accordingly.

        4. Establishment of a Demonstration Cum-Muga Seed Farms in Garo Hills :- Introduction of muga rearing has been started in Meghalaya on an experimental basis and already 100 acres of land have been utilised for plantation of muga food plants during 1971-72. As places like Khanukol and Kharkata in Garo Hills have better prospect in plantation of muga food plants, a Demonstration-cum-Muga Seed Farm is proposed to be established in that district for which necessary provisions are made in the current year.

        5. Training :-  To meet the requirement of trained personnel for implementation of various programmes of development of Sericulture Industry Training facilities are provided through award of stipends in Certificate Course at the Sericulture Training Institute, Titaber, and in higher course at the Central Sericultural Research and Training Institute, Mysore. In the current year, provision are made for award of 3 Nos. of stipends in Certificate Course and 2 Nos. in higher course.

        Unfortunately, for these 3 stipends there were not tribal people from Meghalaya because no applicants applied who had the necessary qualifications and other criteria. If there are Members who are really interested in developing this particular Department of Sericulture and Weaving I request them to help us find B.Sc. Students in Botany, Zoology and Chemistry. We will try to send them in the next course for higher training for which stipends will be provided, as no one has yet applied who fulfils are required qualifications.

        6. Strengthening of Technical and Supervisory Staff :- The entertainment of staff both clerical and technical is essentially necessary for smooth running of works and effective supervision and guidance in the matter of implementation of the schemes.

        The schemes for development of Sericulture Industry proposed for implementation in the current year within the above approved allocation of Rs. 6 lakhs have also been examined and scrutinized by the Central Silk Board of India for the purpose of according technical approval. Further reduction in the Plan allocation will therefore affect the smooth and successful implementation of the Schemes in question.

        There is Handloom Weaving, outside the Co-operative Sector - I am just giving the main heads :-

(1)

Expansion of the existing weaving training classes ;

(2)

Expansion of Weavers' Extension Service Units ;

(3)

Training in Weaving Technology;

(4)

Decorative Textile Production Centre at Dilma.

        Then there is also Handloom Weaving in the Co-operative Sector. These are the main programmes of the Sericulture and Weaving Branch of the Industries Department. So, Sir, with these remarks I would request the Member to withdraw his cut motion.

Prof Martin N. Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I must first congratulate the minister for his very generous offer which is given on record time to consider opening of a Sericulture and Weaving Centre in the Lalung area. I am sure the Lalung friends who are coming here on the 4th will be all the happier because of this announcement by the Minster. On the 4th they will also bring some samples of their weaving and I think if we can convince the minister as to the artistry of these people the Government will not only be prepared to open centre in the Lalung area but will also not take a long time to consider this question.

Mr. Speaker :-  The Minister has already answered. The Member can take up the matter with him afterwards.

Prof. Martin N. Majaw (Mawhati S.T.) :-  We can send a few ladies for training - because the Lalung women cannot marry unless they have some knowledge of cottage Industries or know weaving - even though they have not passed Class I or Class II. If that could be done Mr. Speaker, Sir, it would be of tremendous help because the quality of their weaving is far superior to the quality in the Marngar area. As far as the rate is concerned, I must say that the rate of Rs. 6 per kg. is too small. So, Sir, I would request the Government to raise the rate to Rs. 12 or Rs. 13 per kg. No Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think we should try to raise the rate from Rs. 6 to at least Rs. 14 per kg. As a matter of fact, Sir, the raw silk is very expensive especially in the international markets. So we may have a further clarification on these matters.

Shri S.D.D Nichols Roy :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am prepared to say something about this weaving. I am certainly prepared to send some people for training and if we have any lady weavers of the area as mentioned by the Member concerned we will consider sending them also. I have already given the assurance that we shall look into the question of the needs of the people and so far as weaving is concerned it is upto us to implement some of the ideas that have been presented here.

        Regarding the price of the cocoons, it also depends on the quality. There are different prices for the different qualities and the prices of raw silk is Rs. 120 per kg. But the cocoon has to be tested so far as quality is concerned, then the cocoon is sent to the reeling units and there a lot of this are to be done.

Prof. Martin N. Majaw :-  So, I withdraw my cut motion, Mr. Speaker, Sir,.

Mr. Speaker :-  Do I have the sense of the House that the cut motion be withdrawn. The cut motion is withdrawn.

        Now, I put the main question. The question is that an amount of Rs. 19,85,000, be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973, for the administration of the Head "35-Industries-I-Sericulture and Weaving."

        The motion is adopted. Grant No. 34 is passed. Grant No. 35.

        Mr. S.D. D. Nichols Roy to move Grant No. 35.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, to move that an amount of Rs. 31,42,100 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the Head "35-Industries-II-Cottage Industries."

Mr. Speaker :-  The motion is moved. I have received one cut motion in the name of Prof. M.N. Majaw, Shri S.D. Khongwir, Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh, Shri Lewis Bareh and Shri G. Mylliemngap. May I now request any of the Members to move the cut motion.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will move very briefly. I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 31,42,000 under Grant no. 35-Major head "35- Industries-II-Cottage Industries" of page 235 of the Budget be reduced to Rupee 1, i.e., the amount of the whole Demand of Rs. 31,42,000 do stand reduced to Rupee1.

Mr. Speaker :-  The cut motion. Now, you can raise general discussions.

Prof. Martin N. Majaw :- First of all I should like to get a clarification form the Minister-in-charge whether Major Industries also is included  under this Head. Therefore, I presume that Mining Industry will come under this Head and in this respect, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to point out first of all that there are such things as quota for various controlled items given out by the Government of India and distributed on regional basis and that regional distribution is further broken up State-wise or Union Territory-wise. Now, in the year 1970-71, the quotas allotted for cold-rolled. Steel rounds by Ms. Rounds and Ms. Bars were not utilised by this Government of Meghalaya. This was left to anybody concerned to inform the Government of Meghalaya, that these quotas were available in M/s Coldrolled Steel Rounds M/s Bars but then the goods were delivered at Gauhati and the quota lapsed and were reverted  back to original distributor and the Assam Government  received a higher quota from M/s  Coldrolled Steel Rounds and M/s Bars but then the goods were delivered at Gauhati and the quotas lapsed and were reverted back to original distributor and the Steel Rounds and M/s Baras in the year 1970-71. Now in our humble opinion, there is a great deal of confusion where these small industries are concerned. I may refer to an Industry of Lethargy rather than on the department of Industries. For example, Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the year 1970-71, the budget provision at the District level was Rs. 18 lakhs 29 thousand 8 hundred. It would have been  very strange that this money has been utilised for developing small Industries at the village level. Unfortunately, we are sad to see that the actual expenditure as has been allotted only at the District level is a paltry sum of 59,376 rupees for use out of an allotment of 18,29,800 rupees at the District level. While at the State level is was separate and much higher, at the District level it was only this sum of 59,376 rupees. Mr. Speaker, Sir, that amount of money could have been utilised to raise proper industries. It is no use Mr. Speaker, Sir, aiming at high Industries while big Industrialists from outside will come to collect or suck away the cream of the State and take away to other States. It would be much better to encourage our young students or our hill people who are experts to take up the various professions in small trades like blacksmith, etc., rather than the outsiders to under take the trades. We know the reason why the British Government came here. It is clear that they came here for economic reasons. So today, our experts and producers of various kinds of material implements in the State should have been helped to a much large extent by the Lethargy Department had this Department really utilised the fund properly. Had this  Lethargy Department used  the amount for helping those local experts, a much better picture of economic growth could have been shown today and there would have been no deficit of Rs. 7 cores and above as we are having today. We cannot  say that we can squander away the money but we can return the amount to the Central  Government at Delhi, if we can not utilise it for setting up small scale industries. Major industries may be discussed later on. Thank you.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Cut Motion moved by my hon. friend. In this connection, I want to point out certain figures in the budget. When I look at this budget at page 245, I see that 245, I see that there is a provision for contingencies at Rs. 1,10,000 and some time in 1970-71 it was only Rs. 1,150 and at page 247, we find that this provision for stipends in the year 1971-72 is Rs. 20,000 and in 1972-73 also it is Rs. 70,000. If we  look at the provision here for this Department, we donot see that the Government has done anything last year regarding help as Mr. Majaw has said that for the two years the Government did not give any help at all, to the cottage industries people. We know, Sir, that there are various kinds of cottage industries which are existing here for a long time like smithy, carpentry, cane and bamboo and so many things like that and we have seen that during the last few years, people have tried their level best to approach the Government through the Block Development Officers and through Cottage Industries Officers for getting grants for the development of their cottage industries. But I cannot say whether the Government has given any grant to the Cottage Industrialists of the State, because as we have seen here in the provision last year, there was no amount at all that has been given or spent as this grant-in-aid to the Cottage Industries people. We will see that a provision of Rs. 20,000 last year i.e., 1971-72 was shown there for stipend to the students who will go for training in Cottage Industries. But there was no expenditure made by the Government as provided there and this year also there is another provision of a grant of Rs. 20,000 for stipends for training of people and I do not know Mr. Speaker, Sir, whether the Government is really interested or not to look after this provision which should be spent this year. I want to know what is the policy of the Government because last year. I did not see any expenditure on the part of the Government in respect of this stipend. (Bell rang). These are the two aspects  of the matter that the Government has to look into properly. There is nothing in the Budget Speech of the Finance Minister regarding the policy decision of the Government as to the development of these Cottage Industries by means of grants-in-aid or by means of helping some Cottage Industries which have been existing here in our State or by means of introducing the new Cottage Industries items or  schemes here in our State. Therefore, the statement of the Finance Minister regarding policy matter of the Government as to the development of these Cottage Industries is not clear. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in my opinion, we must in fact look into both aspects of the matter, one is the existing Cottage Industries which are already in existence for along time and on the other hand the people who according to their own genius, skill or talents are running their cottage industries must be encouraged and helped by Government now that we have got our own State. Another thing is that we most introduce certain new items and give our people employment and also tap the resources of our State for economic stability. Here, there is enough scope for Government to encourage more young students to undertake the development of industries. Here we need the policy decision of the Government since in the Budget I do not see ay clear indication of such policy decision towards  this demand on grant. So, I support this Cut Motion. Thank you.

Shri Lewis Bareh :-  I support of the Cut Motion moved by my friends, I would also like to make a few observations on the important events. We have heard various kinds of arguments made by the hon. Members in the different fields of their development, Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are various kinds of institutes such as Bee-Keeping, Cane making, Handicrafts, Carpentry and so on. There, we could not have any information and the Government failed to describe why there is no clear mention of the allocation of funds for these Institutes to the indenting candidates in order to encourage them for undertaking training in the various industrial enterprises or cottage industries. But now, in the Budget, there is a big amount proposed to be spent under these heads. And there was also a small provision that has been made as a grant to those people who are interested in this kind of industry. Because last year in my home constituency, there are Sir, few persons who have been allotted some grants from this Industries Department without proper scrutiny and it was found that such persons who have got the grant, have no connection with such industrial works. Therefore, Sir, I would like also to point out some remarks on the provision made in the budget in respect  of Industries. From the budget itself, we find that according to the allocation provided therein, new, industries will be set up in our State. But we do not know where such industries will be established and if they are to be set up in any place huge amount also has to be provided for such demonstrations. There will be no demonstration to the rural people for bee keeping industry to be set up in any place. (Bell rang) in the interest of the people. With these few words Sir, I support the Cut Motion.

Mr. Speaker :-  Now, It is your turn Mr. Mylliemngap.

Shri Grosswell Mylliemngap :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Cut Motion moved by the hon. Member. It has been correctly pointed out in the budget speech of the Finance Minister that out State is industrially backward but we should not be complacent or we should not be scared of it. But we should strike hard to penetrate into this backwardness. We have seen that the industrial policy of our elder sister States is very much unsatisfactory. Therefore, Sir, I feel that the beginning without knowing the industrial policy of our own State, whether it has since been formulated or not, I feel, that taking the geographical conditions of our State as a whole, the Government should encourage Cottage Industries to thrive in the State. If we study the budget closely, we will find that out of the normal budget,  Rs. 20,000 has been earmarked for training and out of the plan budget, Rs. 8,000 has been earmarked for training inside the State. In the normal budget, there are 8 trades which need not be enumerated or elaborated. But Mr. Speaker, Sir, it seems it has been very much emphasised on the staffing pattern, allowances of officers and the establishment have been earmarked by about 70 per cent more that the Contingency Fund and in the Plan Budget, we have seen that there are 8 new plans which are going to be taken up by our State like Ginger Dehydration Factory, Lime-Making Plants, Carpentry, Agricultural machineries, Pineapple Production and Multipurpose Workshop at Jowai. These are the new schemes to be taken up in the the Fourth Five Year Plan. But, Sir, in this connection, I should like to bring or remind the hon. Members that we are not having a magic lamp to make all these things possible overnight. We should make some concentration or we should make some more allocation of funds instead of coming straight away to start these institutes. I feel, that we should first of all equip our institutes and equip them with men to man these plants and institutes so that we will not in future suffer from the dearth of trained personnel, dearth of skillful heads to man the plants. This is the state of affairs which I have already stated from the very beginning and the only remedy to all these is to send people for training to undertake the training within the outside the State of even abroad so that when these people finish their training, we can take up will these plants which we are thinking about to take up. Because whenever one  would ask something about these plants  in the past the reply is that we don't have trained people, we don't have people who can man all these various plants and factories and I feel, that the Government should give  special consideration to equip these institutes and these plants first by getting the people trained before we are going to start all  these plants and institutes. With these few words, I support the Cut  Motion.

Mr. Speaker :- I think enough has been spoken on the Cut Motion. Any way let Mr. Nongtdu speak only a few words.

Shri Onwardleys Well Nongtdu :-  In supporting the Cut Motion moved by my friends I just want to speak a few words for the information of the Government  and this House because there are also people living in the Jaintia Hills district who are doing the Bee-Keeping Industry. They are expert in this trade and some other arts like Black-smithy and Carpentry. The Government has done something to help these people in the previous year. In this connection, I would also mention that they are also keen and expert in Weaving, Black-smithy, Carpentry and the like and if the Government consider their case they can improve these industries in a better way.

Mr. Speaker :-  I think the  State Government cannot infringe on this.

Shri Onwardleywell Nongtdu :-  No Sir, I just want to mention that these people are starving, since starving has been mentioned in this House. If these people are encouraged, if they can improve  their art of Carpentry and blacksmithy. In that case they can raise their  economy and at the same time their products can be marketed by the Government. Thereby these people who are very backward in the State can be uplifted in the near future.

Mr. Speaker :-  I would like to inform all Members of the House, that participation on the discussion or cut motions is not the monopoly of my left side.

Shri H. E. Pohshna :- We do not claim it. We want them to put cut motions also. We invite them

Mr. Speaker :-  May I request the Minister to give his reply.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I reply to some of the points raised, I would like to state that according to information which has just been sent to me, there is a very serious printing error in which the actuals for 1970-71 at page 247 of volume 2 and of the other figures of this particular  grant. The State figures which total Rs. 2,98,400 should be district figure and the district figures should be State figures in the last two columns of actuals for 1970-71. The totals are correct.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  But the totals are correct Sir.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  Yes, the totals are correct. I read out State for district and district for State. They have been transposed and therefore some of the remarks made on these grants, particularly, those made by the Member form Mawhati would not apply because the amount spent in 1970-71 was at the District and not much has been spent at the State Level.

Prof. M.N. Majaw  :-  Are we to understand that all these figures i.e., the State total and district total at page 247 also are to be shifted ? I mean the breakup 

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :- Yes, that is my understanding.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  How can we proceed with the budget Mr. Speaker, Sir, when a very serious mistake has been discovered in the budget ? I propose that we postpone discussion on this grant.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-   At the head of every budget, it will show actuals of 1970-71 wherein under the State, you should read district and under the district you should read State.

        Now, one of the reasons why the amount in 1970-71 was not very much in the State because the Directorate of Industries was established very late, only in January, 1971 and this is one of the reasons why the quota of cold rolled steel flats and rounds could not be distributed in that particular area.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  On a point of information. Mr. Speaker, Sir, Since this printing mistake has been detected, are we to understand that this printing mistake runs through from page 235 to 238, because the total that we get at page 235 total (a) again at page 236 (b) and (c), and it is a fact. Mr. Speaker, Sir, what happens to those training organisations at page 35 actuals 1970-71 - training institutions at the State level ? Are we to understand that this training was conducted at the district level under training organisation?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  Yes.

Shri H.E. Pohshna :-  Moreover, on the point of order, the Minister-in-charge should have pointed out this printing mistake from the start of discussion and so long we have been discussing on printing mistake. Sir, can we reopen the discussion  of this Grant?

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  May we have some explanation ? I may refer to page 35 where we find actuals of 1970-71 for training organisation. That means the sum of money provided for bee keeping subsequent to this sum of 29,100 was 12,900 rupees as actual expenditure on the district level and that reversely the sum of rupees 2,268 was spent at the State level?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  Yes, this I said, is transposed. In place of State, you read district and in place of district you read State. The left hand column for 1970-71 of actuals, there is no State expenditure.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  These are very serious mistakes. It is easy to to transpose the figures under these institutions and training institutes. As referred to by the hon. member from Sohryngkham, they do no fall under the State head but under the District head.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-   The fact is that the 1970-71 actuals shown in the budget were discovered only after we look at it just now. If you compare budget estimates of 1972-73, revised estimates of 1971-72 you will see that in 1970-71 in the Districts whole printing they have transposed to the state column and it should have been on the right side and not on the left but they have had it transposed. That was right from page 234 upto the end of that particular Grant.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  May we ask the Minister to check up these also ?

Mr. Speaker :-  May I request the hon. Members to have patience and not ask questions while the Minister clarifies?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  Printing errors are too frequent unfortunately and the printers are human beings. The reason why the quotas were not utilised in 1970-71 is that the Directorate was not organized in time. The hon. Member form Pariong had asked and one or two Members had asked, about the policy. I shall read out something  regarding the decision of the Government taken recently regarding this, but first I shall answer some of the points that have been raised for clarification on the students training. The amount for the students, seats in the training school has been put only at 28,000 rupees as at present the cottage industries are under the Khadi and Village  Industry Board which is still being looked after by the Assam Board. It is a semi-official organisation. We are having discussions with the Khasi and Village Industry Commission to  have our own Board and to supervise implementation of the schemes in Meghalaya. This includes the Bee-Keeping  Scheme. Bee-Keeping will also receive due attention.

        Now, so far as this particular grant is concerned, Government is providing Rs. 7,62,100 for 1972-73 in the normal budget as against Rs. 8,50,600 provided for it during 1971-72. This amount is only to keep the following continuing schemes running or to improve the operation conditions such as the Head-Quarter Organisation, Regional Organisation, Training and Handicraft Board Schemes and Civil Works. The expenditure on these schemes during 1971-72 was Rs.5,02,700 and in view of the fact that Meghalaya has become a full-fledged State in January 1972, it is imperative that more expansion and strengthening are required.  These schemes are serving as an outlet for employment. Further the training centres-cum-production centres are meant to impart training to local youths to familiarize them with production skills and techniques, so that they may, with the skills and knowledge acquired, be in a more advantageous position for self-employment and also obtain jobs in various undertakings existing in the State or likely  to come up in the near future. Such trades are bee-keeping furniture makings, paper making came and bamboo, soap-making, leather, blacksmithy and carpentry, all of which have an immense scope of development and improvement in the State. Other major items of expenditure are pay and allowances of staff in Head-Quarter Organisation and District Organisation. Much more strengthening o technical staff is required and is expected to be done form the Plan provision, where adequate provision for a start has been made.

        In addition, the Plan provision for Industries is Rs. 23.80 lakhs for 1972-73 meant primarily to defray expenditure on the continuing schemes like Saw-Milling-cum-Mechanised Carpentry  and also schemes inherited from Assam which are to be implemented during the current year. This amount also includes an amount of Rs. 7.40 lakhs for Centrally sponsored schemes such as the Rural Industries Project, Scheme for educated unemployed and Capital Investment and Transport subsidy schemes. These are the incentives given by the Government of India because of the fact that the State and the Districts in the State have been declared economically backward.

        Now, regarding industrial development of this whole north-eastern region, as mentioned by one of the hon. Members as sister States, and Meghalaya, in particular, has been very very poor for many reasons. The Government has taken into consideration these facts and had taken up with the Government of India to include the whole State as economically backward. This has been agreed to and in action, I  will read out the following package schemes, for the benefit of the Members of the House which have been decided recently by the Government.

        1. Refund of Sales Tax :- The Government or its authorised agency will give a refund of the actual sales tax paid by an industrial unit on the raw materials purchased and used and also on the finished products sold, subject to a maximum of 10 per cent in one year of the investment in the fixed assets of an industrial unit. This facility will be available for a period of 5 years, starting from they date of establishment of a unit.

        2. Subsidy on Power Tariff :- The Government will supply power at concessional tariff to power intensive industries. The Government will subsidies in other  cases all electricity tariff payments above .09 P per unit paid by an industrial unit subject to a maximum subsidy of .09 P per unit for a period of 5 years.

        3. Exemption from Payment of royalty charges for water supply :-  The Government will exempt all industrial units in the State from the payment of royalty charges of drawing or lifting water form Public water sources in the State for a period of 5 years from the date of production.

        4. Financial Assistance :-  The Government will extend financial assistance to units located in Meghalaya in any of the forms enumerated below :-

(a)

Underwriting/direct participation in the equity/preference share capital of the enterprise. This will be done through the Meghalaya Industrial Development Corporation.

(b)

Loans upto Rs. 20,000/- will be given by the Government to potential or existing industries for expansion/modernisation to the extent of 75 per cent of the value of the property mortgaged by them.

(c)

Loans above Rs. 20,000/- will be recommendation by the Government to Commercial Banks and Financial Institutions after it is satisfied about the eligibility or the entrepreneurs and soundness of the schemes. In such cases, the Government will also subsidies in suitable cases the rate of interest above 4 per cent for loans secured from Commercial Banks and Financial Institutions. 

(d)

In case of technically qualified local unemployed entrepreneurs, the Government will participate to the extent of 75 per cent of the total capital investment provided it is satisfied with the feasibility and economics of the proposed scheme of setting up an industry.

(e)

For the development of Small Scale, Cottage and Handicraft  Industries, the Government will provide loans on nominal rates of interest to Small Cottage and Handicraft Industries for their  development and expansion under the State Aid to Industries Act.

        5. Government Guarantee of Loans raised by Industrial Units :-  The Government will favourably consider guaranteeing loans that may be raised by an industrial unit from various financial agencies all over the country. Such guarantee will be admissible in respect of industries which the Government feels should be promoted for the economic benefit of the people of the State.

        6. Meeting the cost of feasibility and Project Reports :-  The Government will provide free of cost feasibility and project reports for the setting up of small scale industries. In respect of medium and large scale industries, the Government will contribute 75 per cent of the total cost of preparing feasibility and project report for the setting up of industries provided in the reports are prepared by an agency approved by the Government. All such reports will remain the property of the Government if the unit fails to establish, itself within a specified period. In case, however, the unit is established the amount invested by the Government in the preparation of feasibility and project reports will be converted into share capital.

        7. Interest free loan for construction of factory buildings :-  With a view to encouraging  entrepreneurs to build their own factory buildings the Government will give interest free loans to industries in selected areas of the State, upto a maximum of 50 per cent of the building costs repayable within 10 years starting from the 3rd year of the date of sanction of the loan.

        8. Construction of Industrial Estate and Development of Industrial Areas :-  With a view to providing modern factory buildings to existing as well as, to new entrepreneurs, the Government will construct Industrial Estates at suitable places in the State. The Government will also acquire and development suitable lands in the State and offer developed plots to deserving industrial units.

        9. Price Preference in Government Purchase Programme :-  The Government will purchase to the extent required the products manufactured by the eligible Industrial Units located in the State and will give them price preference of 15 per cent over goods manufactured and purchased form outside the State.

        10. Assistance in the Procurement of Building Materials :-  To help the industries in the speedy  implementation of their projects and expeditious completion of their construction programme, Government will give assistance in early procurement of building materials like cement, iron and steel, etc.

        11. State Government Support for obtaining Industrial Licenses :-  Applications for industrial licenses to the concerned authorities in the Government of India will have the full support of the Government.

        12. Fixation of Royalties at Negotiated Rates :-  While fixing royalty on any goods, Government have decided to take into consideration the merit of each individual case vis-a -vis the rate of royalty obtaining on such materials in the neighboring States. In the matter of auctioning mahals and coupes, the possibility of their being leased out  for a specified period at negotiated rate can also be considered.

        13. The above concessions and incentives, will be initially for a period of 5 years and will extend to the units whose capital (excluding working capital) does not exceed Rs. 1 crore. In case of other units, the incentives are negotiable.

        Now, these are the package schemes of incentives and copies may be available to all members during the session; the cyclostyled copies will be given to all the members for their information. We shall also inform the members of the existing incentives being given by the Government of India.

        Now, so far as other training schemes in Bee Keeping Carpentry, Blacksmithy, Soap Making, etc, Government is aware that these will have a direct effect on the people of this State especially  the underqualified population and because of this realization Government is continuing the Schemes. For the current year streamlining and getting up the schemes identifying and studying the problems and an all out effort to see that  they operate well and show the contributions, by removal of handicaps prevailing all along is to be the main function. In subsequent years consideration of expansion and development may be taken up; as without  these training-cum-production centres it will be virtually impossible to improve the lot of the less educated part of the population, with other academic training Institutions prescribing very strong qualifications.

        A great deal of civil works is also to be carried out in the current year, but lack of finances has impeded attempts to bring up these training-cum-production Institutes to a more presentable condition. It is hoped that at least 50 trainees will be entertained this year. Under their plan provision for cottage industries schemes such as the Saw Mill cum-mechanical carpentry  are running satisfactorily and the training centres in tailoring, knitting, embroidery are taking in their full quota of trainees. With the joining of appropriate personnel the ginger dehydration and Lime Making Plants are also expected to be operated, the former by producing ginger form the local growers and the latter by quarrying of limestone from the deposit already leased out to the Government.

        Others schemes such as the Clay Washing Plant and Multipurpose Service Workshops, etc., are schemes inherited form Assam and though apparently their establishment would be an asset to the State little or no ground work has been done while in Assam. In the current year  it is proposed to make an economic study of the projects, prepare feasibility reports and by the end of 1972-73 it is hoped that initial investment in land, reclamation work and preliminary civil works will have been done. Steps are underway to examined  possibility of establishing Fruit Preservation and Saw Mill-cum-Mechanical Carpentry for Garo Hills in consultation with the concerned authorities.

        Finalisation of the site for the Industrial Estate is already in the last stage. Last year studies by the Department and by the Small industries...

Prof. M. Narayan Majaw :-  On a point of information Mr. Speaker Sir, may we know whether the Minister is giving the entire industrial policy of the State or is replying to our questions.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  I have given a statement regarding the various schemes for developing industries as asked by one member and the other part is the statement made which covered some of the questions raised by the other member in so far as training, and so far as institutes are concerned and so on. The industrial estate as I have already stated is to be finalised soon and the sites are awaiting the approval of the Development Commissioner, Small  Scale Industries. This is expected shortly after which formal blue print of the schemes, formal taking over of land and civil works are to be carried out during 1972-73. This, so far as I remember, covers some of the points raised by some members. I have a clarification to make with regard to the district and State schemes of 1970-71. This clarification is that the district schemes were put under this State head by the A.G. Finance officials, have been called to explain about these transpositions. Now some of the members have mentioned about backward areas.

Mr. Speaker :- The whole State is backward

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  But if any one has special skill they are being given encouragement by the Government to follow in trades like black smithy, weaving and so on and many of them had been getting grants, loans, technical assistance, etc., so that we can get more technical people for improving cottage industries, small industries as well as medium industries in the State. With these few words, Sir, I would request hon. Member to withdraw the Cut Motion.

Mr. Speaker :-  Before you withdraw or you will stand by the cut motion. I will have to give a ruling on a point of order raised by Mr. Pohshna. The point  of order was that whether we take up this today in view of the fact that there is a serious mistake in printing, but since the Minister has already appointed  out right form the beginning and since the printing mistake is not connected with the amount for the demand for the......

Prof. Martin N. Majaw :-  Before you give the ruling..

Mr. Speaker :-  I think if  you want to controversy with me you can have it and since it is no connected with this amount I say it is like the intervention made by the Minister.

(Laughter)

        And at the same time I will request the Minister to tell his colleagues and the Finance Minister to issue a Corrigendum at the earliest.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, if we accept that printing mistake then the other book is also wrong because here also from pages 43 to 48 these Finance Department detailed  estimates of the fourth five year plan have been shown exactly as shown here in the main budget. Are we to understand that both books are wrong because the total that are given here in detail show that 3,38,167/- at the State level and 2,37,000/- at the District level under the development ? If this was placed on the table of the House by the Minister regarding the statement and since this is the only volume I would humbly ask the Finance Minister to make these amendments in the budget.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :-  Sir, as you have already given a ruling on this, I think the ruling stands.

Mr. Speaker :- The ruling from the chair can never come in the form of a motion. I have given the ruling with the consequential amendments  perhaps if there is any.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  I would seek further clarification from the Minister, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that he has not pointed out to certain question as to why there should  be more clarification rather than diversification.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  Well, Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a matter of information and it can be noted that the opinion of the member concerned in the process of development of the Industries Department will be taken into consideration.

Mr. Speaker :-  After hearing the reply form the Minister, may I know the mind of the mover of the Cut-Motion.                

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- I withdraw my Cut-Motion.

Mr. Speaker :-  May I understand that leave is granted that the cut-motion be withdrawn?

(Voices : Yes Yes)

        The Cut-motion is with leave of the house withdrawn.

        Now,  I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs. 31,42,100, be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year  ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "35-Industries-II-Cottage Industries."  

        The motion is adopted. The demand is passed.

        Grant No. 36. May I request Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy to move Grant No. 36.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, On the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs. 3,85,900, be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year dinging 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the "35-Industries-III-Major Industries".

Mr. Speaker :-  The motion is moved. I have received a cut motion to be moved by Shri Enowell Pohshna.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 3,85,900, under Grant No. 36 Major Head "35-Industries-III-Major Industries" at page 248 of the Budget be reduced to Rs. 1.00 i.e. the amount of the whole Demand of Rs. 3,85,900 to Rs. 1.00.

Mr. Speaker :-  The cut motion is moved. Now I would request the hon. Mover to raise a discussion on the grant.

(At this stage Speaker, left the Chamber and the Deputy Speaker took the Chair)

Shri H.  Enowell Pohshna :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while moving  my cut-motion to raise a discussion I would request you to give me some time. Now regarding major Industries, we have at present one major industry although not in the name of our State but in the name of Assam Cements Company Limited. But according to the Budget Speech of the Finance Minister this Company has already been handed over and taken over by our State. We are proud that we have got such a big industry and for the last ten years the whole of Eastern region of India has been depending for cement on this industry and there has been mention about the lack of transport, lack of trucks for carriage of cement from the Assam Cements Company Limited and therefore many trucks from the State Transport have been requisitioned to carry cement of this big industry. Since there has been huge production there was more demand in the whole eastern region. But it is regretted that with the taking over of this industry by the Government of Meghalaya there was some suspicion in the minds of our people because since there has been failure of power, failure of machinery and shortage of production of cement. It is rather very very mysterious as to why after taking over of this industry by the Government of Meghalaya these things have occurred and I do not know how far it is correct that  doubts have been expressed by some people as well as by some Newspapers that this Cement Company will be handed over to the Cement Corporation of India. Sir, I have got with me one Newspaper, I do not know whether this Newspaper is a registered one or not, wherein there is a news item. I feel proud when I read this. Now sometime ago the Union Minister  of State in-charge of Industries, Shri Mohan Dharia......

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I  have already given a statement on the Assam Cements Company clarifying the press reports also on the 24th but unfortunately the hon. Member was not present in the House. So it would be better that the time is not wasted by repeating the same thing which is already on record.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna :-  I know there would be reaction of the Government. But I do not know how a D.O. letter addressed to the Chief Project Development Officer of Cement Corporation of India with all the details could be printed in this Newspaper. I agree..... with the Minister-in-charge of Industries, Sir, that we should not simply believe all these things while moving the Cut Motion. So I would like that the entire  picture, a clear and  true picture should come up before the House (Bell Rang). I hope,  Sir, your bell will not be strict on me. I will continue my Cut Motion to some extent. Therefore, Sir, before I take my seat, I would like to request the Government to make a full clarification about this letter which has been published. Last time because I did not put in black and white in support of one Cut Motion I was asked to withdraw. Now I have the letter before me which has been published and read by everybody and I expect that I will not be asked to withdraw my allegations. Therefore Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to have a clarification about this rumour whether it is correct or not. I would like to request the Government to place a full statement and not to hide anything form the House because we are the representatives of the people.

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, may we know the date of the Newspaper?

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna :- Mr. Deputy  Speaker, Sir, I am going to hand it over to you "Shillong the 16th June, 1972, the First Tribal Weekly of the North Eastern Region". I got it from one store the other day when I went to the Shop. Thank you.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :- I had replied to this on the 24th instant. In my statement on the 24th instant I referred to this particular Weekly dated the 16th June, 1972. But the Member was not present at that  time. I had read it in the office of the Secretary. So far as the tatement on Cement is concerned copies are with me.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in support of the Cut Motion, I would like to point out that the reply given by the Minister on the Assam Cements Ltd., although I was not present in the House, yet I have studied in the detail in my humble summation is not satisfactory. In this letter there is some joint issue with the Cement Corporation of India - "if this unit is taken over by the Cement Corporation, you have an advantage of creating common management machinery for both Bokajan and Cherra plants". My point is that in the D.O. No. K.1/72/110, dated May 10th, 1972 the person was arguing in favour of taking over by the Cement Corporation of India and was seeking the Government's  intention to hand over the Cement Company to the Cement Corporation of India and no decision has been taken. Here is a specific intention where this particular officer has mislead the public. This has not satisfactorily been replied to by the Minister in his statement on the floor of the House on the 24th of this month. However, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir I do not want to speak on the Assam Cement for a long times as I intend to move separate motion on the huge anomalies on the working of the Assam Cements Ltd. which have been pointed out particularly in the recent resolution passed by the Board of Directors and which has come to my notice. The Board of Directors which met on the 13th and 14th June, 1972, have passed a resolution whereby the authority of the Administrative Officer has been curtailed as far as the working management is concerned. The working management of the Assam Cement Factory should be under the administrative control of the Administrative Officer but the Board of Directors has passed a specific resolution for direct control of the working of the Company.

Mr. Speaker :- May I request the hon. Member to place the relevant papers on the Table of the House ?

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker,  Sir, it  will be complied.

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the fact is that it is too early to expect anything right. now form this newly born State of ours. But since the discussion on the Cement Factory has come I would like to make some observations. The Cement Factory is the only Factory in our State and it is a sad state of affairs to know that  now it has become a losing concern. It should not be so whatsoever because the cement factories of other States in India have not at all become losing concerns. It seems there is something wrong with the management of the Factory. The target of cement production last year is 83 tons and the factory has produced 72 tons and the cost of production of cement per bag is Rs. 7 while the selling price per bag is Rs. 12. So I do not know why there should  be losses. There should be some loopholes somewhere in the management of the Company. There are three officers responsible for the management of the Factory, the Chief Engineer the Working Manager and the Administrative Officer. The Chief Engineer supervises the work upto the management level and if there would have been proper supervision at the administrative level and amount  of Rs. 5,000 could have been saved from wastage. But now as Prof. Majaw has said it is gratifying that the Government has brought the Meghalaya Officer, as the Administrative Officer where he can have more scope to learn the trade of the Company. I think there is negligence on the part of the Management, for example the motion engine of the factory which was purchased at a higher cost got burnt three times. The matter was brought to the notice of the Management on the 27th May, 1972 but nothing has been done and as a result the motion engine again got burnt after a couple of days. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with regard to the ropeway scheme is is really a very ambitious scheme. The estimated expenditure for making the ropeway from Cherrapunjee to Bangladesh and from Cherra to Gauhati is Rs. 6 crores whereas for the Cement Factory scheme only Rs. 4 crores has been provided. Whether it is advantageous for the State Government to proceed with the scheme as it is transportation cost is more expensive. So I would request the Government to look into this matter (bell rang). Please give me some more time, Sir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- I will give you one more time.

Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang :-  For market purposes I think it is better to bring the Company somewhere at Khanapara so that the cost of transport will be less.

        Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, regarding Paper Industry, I think some time ago the Japanese Experts met the Assam Government and the Meghalaya Government and they have submitted a report to the Assam Government which I think the same was also submitted to the Government of Meghalaya. It is learnt in  this connection that about 20 acres of land will be required for the establishment of the Paper Industry. This industry, when established will give employment to about 2000 people. Our industrial policy is one to remove the industrial imbalance or economic imbalance and as such I would like to request the Government to move the Government of India for this. Mr. Deputy  Speaker, Sir, I would also like to suggest that in order to solve the unemployment problem or our State evening motor workshop may be opened so that our young men who know mechanics can work in the evening after coming from their schools and colleges. Not only that, it will serve the purpose of the motor owners. They can send their vehicles to the workshop in the evening and take in the morning. This will save their time and money. With these few words I resume my seat.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to pass a few observations on this important matter namely the affairs of Assam Cement Factory. I do agree that there is something wrong with the affairs of the Cement Factory. At the same time there was wrong with the working of the management of the Cement Factory before it was handed over to the Meghalaya Government. It is just recently that the Meghalaya Government has taken over the Factory and only recently  the board of Directors has been formed. So they may have not been able to know what is the important origin of the controversy which has been very much focused. But regarding the present statement, I have gone through its contents and found that there are some controversial words in that letter. What is important, I think, is the need to see that the managements gets its facilities and to see that the Assam Cement is a working concern. That is the most important I think. What is also necessary is how to get finance. In order to get finance, we have to approach the Planning  Commission, Government of India and other agencies. On this account, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I feel that the Government have done something and what the management of Assam Cement have to act in this direction. Unless we can do something about how to get finance then  the working of the Assam Cement will not be improved in will remain as it today. There will be a short-fall in Production and the economic and employment potential will come down. Therefore, what has been done by the Assam Cement management in trying to get more finance from the C.C.I. or from some other sources has to be viewed in that confer. But what I would like to be critical is about the trend, a little trend that is, about the handing over of the Assam Cement to the C.C.I., and the Minster-in-charge had made a timely statement on the floor of the House on the 24th. I have seen today it has been flashed in the newspaper also; it is in the Implanter. It is very clear, through the press statement of the Minister, that the policy of the Government is not to hand over the management of Assam Cement of the C.C.I. I would like a share a little thought on this matter. It is right and proper for the Assam Cement to go and find finance in order to be able to complete the expansion programme, but that would not mean that we should be surrendering our right to have a say in the management, (Applause) a dominant say in the management. These are the only observations I have to make and in view of the statement made by the Minister clarifying the pints, I oppose the cut motion. 

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, what about deputation ?

Shri Williamson A Sangma (Chief Minister) :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I must make it very clear that one of the statements issued by my colleague is that Government has never decided to hand over the Assam Cement to the C.C.I. In fact, I have had a discussion with the Union Minister of State, for Planning Shri Mohan Dharia, regarding making the necessary allotment of funds for expansion programme of this undertaking available so that we can raise the production capacity of the Factory to 950 metric tonnes per day. This matter will be looked and necessary funds will be made available.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  After the clarification made by the Hon'ble Chief Minister, I have something more to say, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. First of all one hon. Member had mentioned about some of the failures in the Assam Cement factory and he was wondering about the mystery of this failure since the Meghalaya Government took over this undertaking. This is not a fact, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The failure of the motors, the failure of some other machineries occurred some time before the Government of Meghalaya took over in 1972. This also was part of the statement made on 24th.  However, to inform the hon. Members who were not present on the 24th, this failure, as I have said, occurred when we took  and we have not been able to rectify the defects inspite of repairs by reputed firm in Calcutta. I stated on last Saturday that the factory is producing only 50 per cent of the present capacity. I would also like to clarify to the hon. Member form Mawhati in order to satisfy him that it is not the decision of the Government to hand over this company to the C.C.I. and emphasis has been made by the Chief Minister also today on the floor of the House that the Government  is not considering to hand over the Company to any other agency. I think this will satisfy all the Members and let us make exploration to find out finance to improve the management of the Company. These are all in the process, and we are trying to find out various personnel to fill up the management and we are waiting the report of the Consultancy Group which has been asked to advise on this management of this particular Company.

        Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member  from Nongpoh raised once or two points and made additional suggestions regarding the establishment of the Paper Plant. I have made some remarks the other day that the Report on Industrial Development Programme for Meghalaya is under examination. This report has been received as prepared by the National Industrial Development Corporation Limited of New Delhi. This report has suggested a list of 50 projects. Copies of the Report have been circulated to the financial institutions and the intending entrepreneurs. We are in touch with the I.D.B.I.  of India to have some project reports prepared for the selected industries. Action has already been initiated to implement the recommendations of the N.I.D.C.

        The Government has also received an offer from an Industrial House for establishment of a pulp and paper factory. This is under examination. Government has also approached I.D.B.I. for preparing project reports on calcium carbide, calcium carbonate and hydrated lime.  The I.D.B.I. may also help us in selecting a suitable industrialist for executing this project. We have also requested Development Consultants to prepare feasibility reports for supply of limestone and clinker form deposits in Shella and Garo Hills to the cement plants in Bangladesh and to West Bengal. We are also in touch with the A.C. for establishment of a second cement factory in Meghalaya. A proposal to establish oils complex based on the raw materials in the State is in an advanced stage. Steps have also been initiated for economic exploitation of the coal reserves in Garo Hills. Regarding the establishment of Paper Plan my own option is unfortunately not to the extent of 20. It will require very much of pine cultivation of pine forests before economic point is considered for establishment of our paper plant. Because normally the main pine product was well as timber are not used as the raw materials of the paper plant. Raw materials produced excluding timber plus thinning that are used  in paper plant. It is very important that more pine plantation for economic paper plant is required to be started. As I have said earlier that the establishment of pulp and paper plant has been placed on a Bombay Firm and has been under consideration of the Government.

        The Member of Nongpoh constituency wanted to know about establishment of thinning workshop. It is a good suggestion and we conceded to encourage the Government for the establishment of the workshop along with the incentives that are already read out earlier for inviting entrepreneur for conducting properly and to establish the workshop urgently to that some of our men my be employed in such thinning workshop

        The ground that is being discussed actually is not very large one. It is primarily supposed to be done by the office of the Directorate and just to meet the current requirements of staff officers, supplementary staff the amount of Rs. 3 lakhs is necessary. More staff will be required or conducting investigation and physical study and preliminary report for establishment of industries in a sound basis in the coming year. So this is the main ground and this will require a huge amount and would be provided form the Government of India  and the Planning Commission.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, one points is not replied to, viz. reference to the Board of Directors, who in the last 8 months tenure of supervision have got 4 major breakdowns

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have not replied to that point because it is not know to me, because it is about Assam Cement Company, the management of which is just given over to us. I have been informed. We will look into it.

Shri H.E Pohshna :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am sorry, I was not present in the House on the 24th June because I went out to visit the flood affected areas of the border where people are in danger. One building of cement concrete was overblown. I heard the statement given by the Minister in-charge that the Government is quite satisfied with the working of the company.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker,  Sir, Government is not satisfied with the working of the company. If the hon. Member has heard the statement that Government is satisfied I should make it clear that I am not satisfied and that the Government is not satisfied.

Mr. Speaker :-  I s the hon. member willing to withdraw his cut motion ?

Shri H.E. Pohshna :- I withdrawn the cut motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :-  Has the hon. member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion ? The cut motion is with leave of the House, withdrawn. I now put the question . The question is that an amount of Rs. 3,85,900 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March 1973 for the administration of the head "35-Industries-III-Major Industries". The motion is adopted. The Grant is passed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :-  Now we come to next item - Grant No. 50. Now I would request Mr. S.D.D. Nichols Roy, Minister-in-charge to move.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Town and Country Planning) :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs. 10,42,200, be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment ruing the year ending 21st March, 1973 for the administration of the "39- Miscellaneous, Social and Developmental Organisations-VIII-Town and Country Planning Organisation."

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- I have received Cut Motion which stands in the name of 3 hon. Members.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker,  Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 10,42,200, under Grant No. 50. Major head "39-Miscellaneous, Social and Development Organisation (VIII-Town and Country Planning Organisation)" at page 278 of the budget reduced to Re. 1, i.e. the amount of the whole demand of Rs. 10,42,200, do stand reduced to Re. 1 Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I move this Cut Motion on the whole grant and I want to discuss certain aspects of the matter which found place in the Budget Speech of the Finance Minister regarding this Department of Town and Country Planning. I want just to make only a few remarks that the Government during the current year, has proposed to take up formulation and implementation of certain scheme for urban development. The Directorate of Town and Country Planning and Housing has already been started and housing loan under the low income group housing scheme will be given this year to the extent funds are available. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as far as this subject is concerned, it is the responsibility of the town and country planning and it is the subject which Government is thinking only to develop the towns and cities. If it is the policy of the Government only to develop the town cities, first of all it is better to change the wording to Towns and Cities, Planning Department. I mean to say, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that a lot discussions, suggestions were raised by hon. Members during the general discussion on the Budget for the development of Shillong. Shillong is a city now and is increasing day by day and it will become a very big city in the near future. So in this respect Government should, in fact, have prepared some co-ordinated scheme in this Department. But in this demand for grants  I do not see any provision that has been made by the Government for the development of other towns in the State.

        Many hon. Members have spoken about the difficulties of suburbs of Shillong, like Nongthymmai, Lummawbah, Mawlai and so on and so forth where the condition of the people in general is very very poor. Facilities of water supply, means of communications and the way of living in the villages are very poor. Now the small amount which has been provided here in the Budget for the towns of Tura, Jowai and Shillong, I think, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, would not serve the purpose.

        Now, I want to draw the attention of the House to another aspect that the Government should not confined this development work only to some towns like Shillong, Tura, Jowai etc. In fact Government must come forward with some development schemes regarding housing and other facilities in the rural areas also. This may come under the purview of Block Development but I do not see that any provision has been made in this Budget for the rural development which is within prospect of this Department. Our State as a whole is very backward but if the Government is aware of this backwardness, they should come forward in a big way. Our villages are very dirty, way of living is very very dirty and this is the cause of their ill health and then poverty. So the Government should come forward with some country planning or rural development schemes so that they can establish some model villages and there should be organised village in that way that can look after the cleanliness, sanitation, etc. In that way the problem of ill health and disease can be tackled to a considerable extent. In the last second Five Year Plan the Government of India had initiated some schemes  of model villages; some schemes had been organised in those villages. From that the people got an example as to how to live in a proper way and to organise in the villages, So I would suggest that the policy decision of the Government should take into account the rural development schemes as has been provided in the town and country planning. With these few words I resume my seat.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :-  Is there any hon. Member to participate in the cut motion ?

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in supporting the cut motion I have very little to say because almost all the points have already been dealt with by the mover of the motion himself. I want to refer to page 7 of the Budget Speech which goes as follows "certain special development programmes have been drawn up outside the Plan and submitted to the Government of India. These special programme relate to regrouping of village in Garo Hills, road projects of strategic and economic importance, Shillong Water Supply, development of Shillong, Tura and Jowai towns...." In this connection I would like to recall statement made by the hon. Member from Jaiaw during the general discussion on the Budget that he has experienced some small in Bara Bazar 

(Laughter)

        I would like to point out to the increase of vehicles and it appears to me that Bara Bazar has become a business area. so it has become all the more risky to continue like this and I would suggest that the Town, Planning Committee of Shillong should give special attention to save the life of the poor pedestrians. In this connection I would give some concrete suggestions, viz, at least 2 or 3 over bridges should be constructed over some crossings at Bara Bazar  and there should be at least 2 or 3 over bridges in some vital places at Police Bazar which we call in Khasi as Khyndai Lad

        Now, regarding the planning in Shillong and Jowai towns I would like to say that nothing has been done so far worth the name. So I would request the Government to look into the matter.

         Now the last but not the least I would  like to stress the suggestion given by the mover that the rural areas should also be attended to. Under the schemes of country planning as has been suggested, model villages should be established for the betterment of the poor villagers of the rural areas of the State. With these few words, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support the Cut Motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :-  The House  stands adjourned till 4 P.M.

        The House resumed its sitting at 4.00 P.M. with the Speaker, on the Chair.

Mr. Speaker :-  May I now request the Minister-in-charge, Industries, to reply to the cut motions on Grant No. 50

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Town and Country Planning) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, Grant No. 50 is for Town and Country Planning and only about Rs. 42,200 is for the Head-quarters Office of the Town Planner-cum -Director of Housing which has not yet been fully organised to take up all the works and Rs. 10 lakhs for Urban Development  Schemes. Now, the mover of the cut motion has suggested about changing the nomenclature or the name of the Department to Town and City Planning. But, Sir, the term or title "Town and Country Planning" is a world-wide terminology and it includes planning of the country side round about towns which also influences developments in the towns. I am sure the Member concerned and also all those who have spoken will agree with me that it is essential that we do take up proper planning of our towns. Three towns have been recognised as towns in Meghalaya, and they are Jowai, Shillong and Tura and the Town and Country Planning Department will undertaking planning of these towns which unfortunately have not been planned before. I would like to agree with the Member that it is not only these three towns and that should be planned but also other large villages which may soon be classified as towns. But so far as the rural areas are concerned, the villages which do not come under this classification of towns, which includes towns with population of 5,000 and above, and development of housing like construction of model villages would come under Grant number 91 for housing. This particular grant is only meant for the urban development schemes. There are no cities in Meghalaya. We are just starting the actual work which would require considerable efforts on our part to make an impact on the towns which have already grown up without any planning whatsoever and so many problems would have arisen, i.e., over-crowding without additional facilities that  should have been there in the towns that have grown up and it is high time that we take up in right earnest and try to solve the problems as we have the facilities and the funds with which to solve them . Therefore, so far as Jowai Town is concerned, as the Member had mentioned, we should admit that  Jowai Town had not been planned in the past  but it is one of the three towns which is going to be take up for proper planning and development. It would take some efforts on the part of the Department to get the needed assistance from the Government of India. The Master Plans are being prepared  for three towns, to start with, and later on other towns which may be recognised as semi-urban areas would also be developed. So, Sir, with these small clarifications I would request the Member concerned to withdraw the cut motion.

Shri Humphrey Hadem  :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is only one point, i.e. about the Bara Bazar area, on which I want a clarification. The Jowai......

Mr. Speaker :- Do you mean Shillong or Jowai ?

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  I mean Shillong Bara Bazar.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Town and Country Planning) :-  Sir, this would not come under the Department of Town and Country Planning. Although planning for improvement of the Bara Bazar are may be taken up in the Master Plan, any funds, for this particular Bazar, as it is, I imagine, would have to come from outside the Plans. We have already approached the Government of India for additional funds for development of Shillong and probably through the Municipal Authorities or the District Councils, as the case may be.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to make a suggestion to the Government through you that while taking up construction of the Bara Bazar area, the improvement of Mot Phran area is also absolutely necessary.

Mr. Speaker :-  I would like to inform the Member that whenever a Minister is reply to the points raised in the general discussions the hon. Members should first contact the Government Department concerned.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  Sir, those are the points raised by me during the time I supported the cut motion in respect of over-bridges or safety of pedestrians and I think we would like to have some clarification from the Minister.

Mr. Speaker :- I do not know whether the matter relating to construction of over-bridge comes under Town and Country Planning or it comes under the P.W.D. Of course, the Plan will be there but may we request the Minister to enlighten on this.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Town and Country Planning) :-  Again, Sir, when we are going to plan our town we should see that roads, over-bridges, etc., are planned for even for the next 20/30 years. However, we do not know that all roads would be included in the Master Plan. But so far as providing of funds is concerned, this particular work is to be taken up in the Planning Department.

Mr. Speaker :-  After hearing the reply form the Minister, what is the opinion of the mover of the cut motion ?

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the reply of the Minster that the Government has not yet got the funds at its disposal for the suburbs of the town and also for the development of certain towns in the rural areas at least for the present I withdraw the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- Do  I have the leave of the House that the cut motion be withdrawn ?

(Voices : 'Yes')

        So, the cut motion with leave of the House stands withdrawn.

        Now, I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs. 10,42,200 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973, for the administration of the "39- Miscellaneous, Social and Developmental Organisation-VIII-Town and Country Planning Organisation."

        The motion is adopted and the Grant is passed.

Mr. Speaker :-  Now, Mr. S.D.D. Nichols Roy to move grant No. 53.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Transport) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, to move that an amount of Rs. 2,09,300 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the  course of payment during the year ending 31st March 1973 for the administration of the "39-Miscellaneous and Development Organisation-(XI-Pooled Transport)".

Mr. Speaker :- The motion is moved. I have received one cut motion from Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, I rise to move that the total provision of Rs. 2,09,300 under Grant No. 53, Major head "39- Miscellaneous and Development Organisation-XI-Pooled Transport at page 283 of the Budget be reduced to Re.1 i.e. the amount of the whole Demand of Rs. 2,09,300 do stand reduced to Re 1.00

Mr. Speaker :-  The cut motion is moved.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, as we are all aware this pooled Transport refers to the use of vehicles by certain important dignitaries, officers and equally important persons from a number of vehicles set aside in the Pool. Now, it has been brought to out notice that these vehicles are often being misused. The vehicles that are being rept in the Pool are specifically meant for the use of persons who are on official duty when they are on official duty. But we often find, we who walk on foot and who live near the schools as we pass by the gates of those schools in the morning, that some of the cars belonging to the State Transport  Pool are dropping the children of the officers. We find also in the Bara Bazar  area such poor cars are carrying the Memsahibs of the officers and sometimes they are taking along with them the chaprasis to carry the things form Bazar. And then for dropping persons late at night also the poor drivers had to work overtime but they are not given overtime allowance. Normally their duty is upto to 5 P.M. I can very  well understand the responsibilities of the Ministers being 24 hours but the responsibilities of the officers are not so because offices close  at 5 P.M. And some of those poor drivers had to carry on working  very late at night. If the drivers belonging to this Pool Transport Department and if the car belonging to the Pool Transport are required by the Ministers at night in any particular party, the drives have to be there with the cars waiting and the consequent expenditure on petrol makes me wonder.

Mr. Speaker :-  Have you taken an opportunity the bring such kind of misuse of pool cars to the notice of the Minister concerned or to higher officers ?

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is a very delicate matter because ultimately this is human question in the sense that these drivers get a very small salary. They are very poor. Again if it were known that a particular drive is complained against you can very well understand what will happen to him. It is a vicious circle and ultimately these poor persons will have to suffer in one way or another. One thing which is not done and which  was not done is this. There is no log book in many of the State Transport Pool cars; there is no log book to indicate exactly how many miles have been undertaken and how much petrol was poured. These things are missing in many in many cars. Recently, of course, these cars are using log books. The Superintendent incharge of pool cars on receipt of a message that a vehicle is required by a Minister  complies with the request during office hours or off hours. I notice that again and again I have to combat against this unhappy columns of actuals of 1978-79. When the budget proposals were placed in 1970, the amount of money that was to be used, of course was quite a big sum but in the revised estimates for 1970-71, it was brought down to Rs. 49,400 under this head but the actuals show us that in instead of this amount of Rs. 49,400 the sum spent by this Department under this head comes to Rs. 98,050 i.e. Rs. 48,051 at the State level and Rs. 50,000 at the district level whereas the revised estimates were Rs. 49,400. I only want to bring these matters to the notice of the Minister-in-charge.

Mr. Speaker :-  I would like to interrupt. Only in one point the hon. Member has rightly pointed out that it is a human question and such of actions which can be taken up departmentally. I think it is no proper that this question should be brought on the floor of the House. But of course, if the Department concerned have not taken any action on the  report of such kind of misuse of pool cars, then this Assembly will thoroughly examined and discuss the failure of the Government. But of course, for the maintenance of log books, these are the cases which the Government should really reply. Any body to support the cut motion?

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the cut motion moved by the hon. Member, Prof. Majaw. The point as has been stated by him is very correct and it is found also that these pool cars were taken generally by the officers whereas other members of the staff of the Department though they require, are not given.

Mr. Speaker :-  That is the same point. Any other new point ?

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh  :-  Well, Sir, these are the points on which we want to get the clarification.

Mr. Speaker :-  Now I call upon the Minister-in-charge to reply.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Transport) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government maintain the central Pool of vehicles under the Transport Department for use by visiting States and Central Government officers on official duty, for use by the V.I.P.s and so on. At present there are nine cars in the Pool, and it is felt that this number is not adequate to meet the requirements. The Government of India visiting teams to Shillong are entitled to such transport and it is necessary that we build up sufficient fleet of these vehicles. Now, in this particular demand maintenance of the pool vehicles as well as purchase of new vehicles are included in the budget demand. The system of how the vehicles operate is that they are used under the Pool  rules in which POL is paid by the user officer and not by the Government. The allotted cars of the officers are not part of the Pool  and for these also the officers pay their own petrol. I am afraid, we have not received any complaints for misuse of the pool cars and I would request the Member, Sir, to send the particulars of the misuse of any one of these are or use against the rules. Log books are being maintained for the pool-cars in the form. Now, in the light of the fact that petrol and lubricants are paid  for by the officers of the departments concerned, the amount is kept to a minimum for the poor transport. If there is any such complaint directly or indirectly, we would like to take this misuse of pool cars up and correct it. So with these clarifications, I would request the hon. Member to withdraw the Cut Motion.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, if we can have a definite understanding from the Minister-in-charge about protection against victimization such cases would be brought forward.

Mr. Speaker :-  It is the duty of the Government to protect all the interests of all the Government servants.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :-  Yes, it is her duty but without any action. This  is a different thing. Well since the Minister has given some sort of reply or promise to look into this matter, as I said last time, I withdraw the Cut Motion.

Mr. Speaker :-  Ma I take that leave is granted to withdraw the Cut Motion ? (Voices yes)

        The Cut Motion with leave of the House stands withdrawn.

        Now, I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs. Rs. 2,09,300 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the  course of payment during the year ending 31st March 1973 for the administration of the "39-Miscellaneous and Development Organisation-(XI-  Pooled Transport)". The motion is carried. The Demand is passed. May I request the Minister-in-charge of Transport to move Grant No. 57-A?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Transport) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs. 3,00,000,  be granted to the Minister-in-charge  to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the "57- Road and. Water Transport Schemes- A-Road Transport-I-Working Expenses".

Mr. Speaker :-  The Motion is moved. I have received one Cut Motion to be moved by Shri Grosswell Mylliemngap. May I request Mr. Mylliemngap to move the Cut Motion?

Shri Grosswell Mylliemngap :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to move that the total provision of Rs. 3,00,000 under Grant No. 57 - A, Major Head "57-Road and Water Transport Schemes-A-Road Transport-I-Working Expenses", at page 301 of the Budget be reduced to Rs.1.00, i.e., the amount of the whole Demand of Rs. 3,00,000, do stand reduced to Re. 1.00

Mr. Speaker :-  The Cut Motion is moved. Now you may rise a discussion.

Shri Grosswell Mylliemngap :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is heartening to learn that the Minster-in-charge of Transport has inaugurated the Bus services in some of the roads in Khasi Hills. These Bus services are luxurious Buses because as you know the road conditions under which these Buses are plying are very bad and these Buses are just like our sophisticated ladies in the town who cannot undertake hard work.

Mr. Speaker :-  May I interrupt the hon. Member ? I think your point here means only the working expenses under Grant No. 79- A.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- Yes, working expenses and Road-Transport is here for maintaining the Buses, cleaning Buses and Repairing Buses are all here.

Shri Grosswell Mylliemngap :- These Buses, are not meant, as I have said, for rough roads and besides that, I have seen that there is no proper direction of duties to the drivers and conductors of these Buses which will indirectly cause a lot of expenses to the Government and I have seen on many occasions, that these Buses are even parked or standing somewhere in Polo Ground where foot-ball is being played or sometimes taken to some other places in which they are not supposed to be. This has indirectly incurred much more expenditure on the Pool and maintenance of these Buses. Another point, is that if we concentrate our bus services on these rough roads, we know fully well that our villages which are not fully civic conscious will not understand how to maintain these Buses which are so lucrative and they will rub the line, do all sorts of things and will not know how to maintain these Buses. Therefore, I feel that these luxury Buses are not fit to be placed on these rough roads unless and until the road conditions are improved and the civic sense of the passengers are fully up to the standard which we are expecting of them. With these few words I move my Cut Motion.

Mr. Speaker :-  Anybody likes to support the Cut Motion ?

Shri Maham Singh :- Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to support this Cut motion and in supporting this Cut Motion I want to bring to the notice of the House that this Transport Department has failed to take upon itself the duty of controlling, management and sole-ownership fo the road Transport between Shillong and Gauhati which is the life-line of our trade and commerce.

Mr. Speaker :- It does not come here. If the hon. Member would like to see that for the taking over of the road transport from Shillong to Gauhati, the working expense of the department may be bigger.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :-  Thank you, Sir.

Shri Maham Singh :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I feel it comes under this grant because I feel that this department has failed to take over the management and ownership of this Road Transport between Shillong and Gauhati. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is the lifeline of our trade and commerce and actually it is also through this road that we get all the essential commodities  for this capital town of Meghalaya. Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, instead of forming our own Corporation they have gone in for a joint Corporation, i.e., Assam-Meghalaya  Corporation. To run this route, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I feel that the dual control of this Corporation is very very defective and suffers from a great drawback in that we cannot fix responsibility. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I feel that our Government lacks confidence in itself and this has made this Government to doubt itself as to whether it is in a position or capable or running this or that undertaking. It is also a great shame for us if we continue to look to other  people from distant lands and places to come and develop our State in every matter. At least this Corporation must be an undertaking of the Government of Meghalaya. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it they continued to have doubts in themselves and also doubts in the competency of our own people, I believe it will be very difficult for our State in future to make any progress. Mr. Speaker, Sir, of course, I don't quite agree with what one of the hon. Members has said that not go in for better buses of our own. We should go in for our own better buses for the convenience and comfort of the travelling public. The Government has taken the right step, by providing better buses in some of the routes where Government is operating. We should  be thankful to the Government for this. Some time ago we had discussed about major industries. I feel that the Government has  been sitting at the fence with regard to a major industry in our State. It is only after public have come up with protests that Government came forward with assurances that it has no intention of handing over this Industry to an outside corporation. 

Mr. Speaker :-  But it is outside the scope of this Motion.

Shri Maham Singh :- But then, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I feel that we should take up this transport undertaking. At present, many of our people are serving in Assam. Many of the Members have already spoken about the difficulties experienced by them. The number will increase when capital will be transferred to Gauhati. Now, if we cannot take  up undertakings like the State Transport Corporation, we will not be able to accommodate our people.

Mr. Speaker :-  As I said you have missed the bus. You should have taken it during discussion on Grant No. 36. The other potion which you are speaking about the Road Transport  Corporation, that will come under Grant 39(A).  I think you will speak about the effect of taking over the Road Transport Corporation from Assam to Meghalaya and the efforts to work out the expenses which come under Grant No. 39(A).

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, in supporting the Cut Motion. I would like to pint out one or two points i.e. regarding the taking over of the Road Transport Corporation by the Meghalaya Government. We all know that new buses have been plying here and there under this Head and the expenditure also has been incurred. If my information is correct, Sir, it is learnt that the construction of the bodies of these buses was given outside the State.

Mr. Speaker :-  That will come under Grant No. 79.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Moreover, Sir, they were not also properly cared for. Secondly, Sir, if I am correct I have been told that they were stationed in some other garages but not in the Government Garages and as such Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support the Cut Motion.

Shri P. R. Kyndiah :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I feel that instead of hurling criticisms on the working of Transport department, we should rather encourage them for despite the various difficulties that the Government have had to undergo something concrete was done. There are of course so many difficulties regarding travelling but somehow, the Government of Meghalaya have been able to start two important Routes. One is the Shillong-Shella Route and the other is the Shillong-Tura Route. It is heartening to note that so far as buses are concerned these buses are of a high standard and compare favourably with the modern facilities of the buses in other parts of the country. The Government is also thinking to take some progressive steps to take away this Transport department to be owned by our own department or to run the Corporation in the best possible way. And I hope the Government should go ahead with this bold plan to achieve the crying need of the country, i.e. transport facilities. With these pints I am thankful to the Government for bringing these new buses and I hope many more buses will be brought in other routes which will be adding to the revenue of the State as a whole. With these few words I oppose the Cut Motion.

Shri Jormanik :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose the Cut Motion. In my opinion, the buses that have been introduced are essentially necessary in the routes that these buses are plying. We have experienced travelling in those old buses for besides paying for the expenses, we have also to travel with goods, livestock and people were being treated like animals. I think, I owe my deep congratulation to the Government for having been able to bring these new buses and introduce them where only the passengers can travel quite comfortably. I hope that this will be the first step before we  take over  our Transport Corporation. With these words, Sir, I oppose the Cut Motion.

Mr. Speaker :-  I think I have heard only form this side  and I hope everybody will be satisfied now. Let us hear the Minister and let us close the discussion on this Cut Motion. I now request the Minister to reply. 

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Transport) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, this particular Grant is for the working expenses. As the Members well know as I have already stated in the general budget discussion, our transport department has taken up a few routes on an experimental basis. It has stated the two Routes and it was decided to take up 3 to 4 routes more in future in the various parts of the State. Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are some basic issues that were raised. These were whether our people who were not trained could man or handle these deluxe buses. It was suggested that until they were trained up, the deluxe buses should not be placed in our routes. So far as any corruption on the part of the drivers and conductors is concerned it has not been brought to my attention. Regarding taking of buses to unauthorised places like Polo ground, there are a number of vehicles that used to be sent for checking and passing by the Motor Vehicle Inspector at the Polo ground. It may be for this reason. These are minor infringements on roads which when they arise should be at once brought to the notice of Director of Transport. But I cannot agree with the mover of this Cut Motion that our people are not capable of using these deluxe buses. I have heard some of the Members have stated this about these buses. But, Sir, it is a fact that many of the people have appreciated these buses, that they are comfortable and free from congestion and that they can now travel in relative comfort without  being subject to overloading of goods and livestock as stated by one of our hon. Members and they can go on schedule. This does not mean that Government is going to take away the permits of the existing goods-cum-passenger buses which also serve our purpose. The Government felt it necessary to put on buses to supplement existing buses so that the passengers can come and go with a certain amount of comfort. I do not think that the roads that the buses are operating on are so bad that these particular buses, which are sturdy, should not be used. Now as a matter of fact, thee have been demands from more quarters to put on our buses. Members from Nongstoin and Mairang and other places with those of Mawkyrwat and Mawsynram have also stated that they would like to have one of the buses on those roads as well also from a number of people from different areas, I have received.

Mr. Speaker :- I think the hon. Member of the cut-motion would like to see the buses going to Smit. (Laughter)

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Transport) :-  On point raised by the hon. Member  from Mawprem, I wish to answer that in a proper time.

Mr. Speaker :- You need not answer the issues which are not within the Grant.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Transport) :-  Mr. Hadem complained that the buses are not properly looked after. I shall look into that and see that buses are properly looked after as we start pleading more supervisors who would be looking into all these matters. If there is any particular matter that comes to the attention of the Members, I request them to inform us. With these few words, I hope the mover will withdraw his cut-motion.

Shri Maham Singh :- On a point of information Sir. It is not this Department which is responsible for taking over of the buses from Shillong to Gauhati.

Mr. Speaker :-  So far as the policy connecting this enterprise is concerned, it will come under Grant No. 79 which we will come across after 3 or 4 grants.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have heard the hon'ble Minister-in-charge and I do not say that I disagree with the idea of placing buses on services. But I also want to encourage placing of such buses up to my Constituency (laughter) because actually I have tried my best to get buses ply upto Sohryngkham and Mawryngkneng, and on the whole, I withdraw my cut-motion.

Mr. Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the cut-motion ? (Voices -yes). So the cut-motion with leave of the House stands withdrawn.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Transport) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs. 62,35,700 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the 70- Forests".

Mr. Speaker :-  Motion is moved, but I have received one cut-motion which stands in the name of 5 hon. Members. But to add to the variety of spices, let me give a chance to Mr. W. Syiemiong to move the cut-motion.

Shri W. Syiemiong (Nongspung S.T.) :-  I cannot move the cut motion because I am not feeling well.

Mr. Speaker :-  Any other Member Will Mr. Rowell Lyngdoh move ?

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to move that the total provision of Rs. 62,35,700 under Grant No. 61, Major Head "70-Forests at page 312 of the Budget, be reduced to Re. 1.00 i.e. the amount of the whole Demand of Rs. 62,35,700.00 do stand reduced to Re. 1.00.

Mr. Speaker :- Cut motion is moved.

Shri  Rowell Lyngdoh (Mawkyrwat S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, forests is the main revenue earning Department of nearly all the States in India. Meghalaya and Assam also have always felt proud of the forest resources and many a time we have been boasting also that we are having a lot of forest resources and forest wealth. But when we look from this estimated expenditure in this budget, we found  that the provision of 62 lakhs as provided for expenditure for the year whereas the receipt from this revenue earning department is only Rs. 13,00,560. This shows that it constitutes only 20 per cent of the expenditure. So we do not understand this forest produce wealth which we are Proud of can stand comparison to this expenditure ? The Hon'ble Minister last time in the general discussion had stated to the effect that the Government is considering forest acts borrowed form the foreign lands and foreign countries of the world, possibly, for taking or adopting in our State, but I am afraid that till such time we complete considering and adopting those forest acts of other states, our State may have no more forests at that time. Because those foreign legislations may not suit local forests and local condition here. The Forest Act which we are adopting now as it is, is quite defective. Sir, the Forest Act which we are following now, does not cover or cannot be enforced on certain forests of certain places like forests of the District Council or forests owned by private persons. This Act has got no uniformity at all in the State. That is why, no revenue could be collected. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we find also here in the budget that the provision of only a small mount is provided for raising of plantation, of medicinal plants or a teak and sal, whereas the whole amount is shown on establishment cost. This seems that we do not give much importance at all to the forest wealth. It appears Government are not going to increase or bring more area into Reserve Forests or acquire land  to bring under forests. As it is, forest research in Meghalaya is still very poor. Therefore, Sir, I more this cut motion and for that reason I do not see any reason why this provision should not be reduced to Re.1.

Mr. Speaker :- Anybody to support the Cut Motion ?

Shri  H. E. Pohshna :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Cut Motion moved by the hon. Member and while supporting it, I want to point out to the Minister-in-charge of Forests that in so far as the border areas are concerned, specially the Narpah Reserve Forest, we  have sometimes reported that timber is going now towards Bangladesh illegally. Only the B.S.F. people and our Forest people are there who are in the know of this. It is strange that if there is any cutting or felling of trees by our local people,  our, Forests Officers are very prompt to take action. But when the elephant comes and the the timbers go to the other  country, nobody takes note of it. Actually I have myself personally told the D.F.O. about this and I do not know what action has been taken by him. Secondly, Sir, the forests is a source of revenue from which our State has to depend. But although  we are talking about forest, in so far as our beautiful hills are concerned, it appears  that we are more interested in deforestation. Therefore, Sir, I would like to suggest that there should be close co-ordination.

Mr. Speaker :-  Even in Government Reserve Forests ?  In so far as private forests are concerned, that is a different thing. Government is not responsible for them.

Shri H. E. Pohshna :-  Even then, Sir, the control and management is under the State Government as well as the District Council. Therefore, I would suggest that there should be close co-ordination between the District Council and the Forest Department to see that this important revenue will not go away from our State.

Mr. Speaker :-  Anybody from my right hand side ?

Shri H. Hadem :-  It seems there is none.

Mr. Speaker :-  Prof. Majaw

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker,  Sir, I rise to support Cut Motion and in doing so, I would like to bring one or two points to the notice of the Minister-in-charge. The first point as raised by Mr. Pohshna has to be expatiated. The burning of charcoal has become a terrible menace to our forests. We have this experience at least in Khasi Hills. We cannot say about the District Council here, but it would be very nice if the Minister-in-charge of the Department could introduce or propose a joint meeting with the District Council authorities so as to control burning of forests in order to produce charcoal, as tremendous sale of charcoal is going on. It is massacring almost wholesale al trees in order to produce charcoal which is sold at an exorbitant rate in Shillong. Tremendous deforestation is going on. One thing can be done. If the Minister could issue instructions or advise at least the forest owners to plant two trees when they cut down one tree. It can be done.

Mr. Speaker :-  It would be better to plant ten, as we proposed last time.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Secondly, forest also includes the - supply of stones gravel and limestone. This is also a very curious thing because the  supply of stones to Bangladesh is one of the most profitable business, which I proposed to the unemployed who are short of travelling money. It brings a revenue of 3/4 thousand of rupees per day to  forest contractors who are the happy recipients of the licence to carry stones or to supply stones to Bangladesh. It appears  that some of the contractors who had a contract and had finished their works had their licences extended during the elections with the Minister's intervention. I do not know whether it is true or is just a rumour. There are 12 rivers from which stones are taken, of which 3 are the most important. These are Shella, Balat and Jadugata. If some control is exercised, this could have been checked. But I understand that some 3 or 4 boatloads of stones are going every day with the connivance of the officers.

Shri H. Hadem :- Mr.  Speaker, Sir, I want to seek clarification to some of the pints here. Sir, under sub-head 'B'-(a). III, we find there is a dim  type. It is at page 312-"Drift and waif wood and confiscated forest produce" and from Volume I of the Detailed Estimates of Revenue and Receipts, Sir, at page 31, we find it written in bold type "Drift and wife wood and confiscated forest produce".

Mr. Speaker :-  What page ?

Shri H. Hadem :-  At page 31. I have just now referred about dim type. Here it is a bold type. If you go to LIC, you will find "Drift and wife wood and confiscated forest produce" and nothing has been received. I want only to clarify whether the name there has been changed to wife (Laughter). That is the only clarification I want to seek.

Mr. Speaker :- May I request the Minister to reply ?

Shri H. Hadem :- Sir, page 312-B(a)-III of Volume II and then page 31 of this Volume I you will find there bold type instead of the previous dimly typed. Here we have drift and wife wood. Here how the change has come ?

(Voices - Wife, Wife) .....(Laughter)

Mr. Speaker :- Mr Maham Singh.

Shri Maham Singh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a word on this, Mr. Speaker, Sir, in support of the Cut Motion, I wish to say that in the whole of Shillong, though there are rivers, there is great shortage of water. Now the waster sources for the whole of Shillong are from the forests that we have on the rider of Shillong Peak. We get sources of water form these forests. There has been wanton destruction of there forests and an indiscriminate deforestation feeling of trees there. This forest has been preserved  for many years for getting water supply for Shillong. Now, if we allow this forest to be destroyed, I believe, all the sources of water will be completely dried up. Uptil now, the Government has not taken any step to check the destruction fo there forests. So with these few words, I support the Cut Motion.

Mr. Speaker :-  So, will the Minister give the reply?

Shri Maham  Singh :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the point of information. All these forests are not green blocks but many of them have been leased out for a long period of time by the Government.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Forest) :-   These lands leased out by Government would be easier to control but there are some forests in agreement of lease which are cut down by the private owners. It was the intention of the Government to start taking over some of these green blocks and steps were initiated a year ago.... (At this stage the Speaker left the Chamber and the Deputy Speaker, took the Chair)...... Now regarding remarks made by Mr. Hadem about the drift and waifed wood, and confiscated forests produce. It is obviously a misprint. In Volume I of page 32, it is correctly printed drift and waif wood. I am told it means unclaimed wood in the forest, but I am not aware why there was not item in the income side of drift  and waif wood. Perhaps it is a matter about which one cannot be sure how much drift and waif wood would be available. The mover  of the cut motion  wondered why there was not much in come under this grant and that in the income work not to commensurate with the expense under the Grant. This 62.75 lakhs includes 33 lakhs under suspense. Now this means it is used for the purchase of Railway Sleepers, Electric Transmission posts, etc. "Which are sold after realising some departmental charge". So these are to be included in the grant but it comes back by being recovered during the year. There is considerable amount for extension of forests.

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to clarify point No. 1 made by the hon. Member Mr. Pohshna, who had mentioned about the removal of timbers illegally form Narpuh Reserve Forests. The Member who moved the cut motion had remarked about the need for taking some steps to control the feeling of trees and so on and he was afraid that it may be delayed if we adapt the Acts of other countries and other places but in the meantime our forests are being depleted. That is why we hurried up to study  all the different Acts because they cannot be applied directly to our State. Conditions in our  States are quite different from other countries but certain provisions can be applied and we hope to have prepared a draft bill which walk have to be discussed with the District Councils and other who are looking after the unclassified and District Council  Forests Areas. The  same thing applies to the remark made by the hon. Member from Mawprem that many of the forest areas  which are in and around Shillong are not under the control of the Government. Some steps were initiated to take over these areas and regenerate the Forests and that had already been cut down by the private owners. But it is an expensive  proposition to take over the land especially in and around Shillong where the land is very expensive. Therefore this is going to take time for the Government to do what is needed to be done to protect the catchment areas from where the streams and springs flow. It will take lakhs of rupees to take over these forests, to  make them into protected forests. In the past these was done by executive orders where the people were prevented from cutting the forests and by agreements but these have since all lapsed after Independence and now come under any Acts passed by the District Councils or Government regarding forests in the different green blocks. The proposed expenditure on organisation, improvement and extension of forests for 1972-73 is  Rs. 1,39,000 as against Rs. 1,31,000 during 1971-72. The excess is due to increase in area of plantation, to be maintained. The total area of  plantation to be maintained is 1,200 hectares of sal plantation and regeneration areas, 580 hectares of Teak and 90 hectares Pine plantation and  20 hectares of Wattle Plantation.

        Development Schemes :-  The total outlay proposed for 1972-73 is Rs. 20,25,000 Main items of works are as follows :-

        A. 3 - Direction :-  The provision of Rs. 23,000 has been made to maintain a Planning Officer (Deputy Conservator of Forests) for supervising Planning Schemes and a Statistical Officer for maintaining the forest statistics which is a vital part of work for planning. Then Organisations and Improvement - an amount of Rs. 7,84,400 is proposed for 1972-73. It includes creation of plantation of economic species like Teak, Plywood and quick growing species like Wattle etc. An area of 152 hectares is proposed to be planted. In addition an area of 500 hectares of old plantation will be maintained. The cost of creation of 2,08,740 sq. ft. of beds is also included under this item of Budget Sub-head. It is also proposed to carry out survey and filed enumeration works of the forest reserves of Garo Hills Division under the supervision of  Working Plan Division for preparing a revised Working Plan of the forest for the next 10-15 years. The creation of  a Research Division for undertaking Sericulture work has also been planned for. The maintenance of the forest Protection Squad in each Division is also proposed under this head of expenditure. The protection squad has to do patrolling to prevent pilferage of timber and other forest produce and detect un-authorised removals. The grants-in-aid to the District Council  are included under this head and that is why the total amount is necessary to be proposed. Then an amount of Rs. 24,700 has been proposed during 1972-73. With  this amount it is proposed to under-take improvement of the existing Botanical Garden at Shillong, and commencement of Zoological Park near about Shillong, besides other works like training of Forest Rangers in Dehra Dun and Forests in the Assam Forest School, imparting logging training to a Forest Ranger and to Foresters in Sukna  Logging Training Centre. Logging Training has become necessary to teach forest workers, to cut and extract timber economically from forests with minimum of wastage. 194 hectares of areas will be planted up with the above species during the year. Survey and demarcation of 388 hectares of Forests will also be taken up during the year. These are some of the high-lights of the forest grants. With this remark, I request the Member to withdraw his Cut Motion.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to have one point more clarified and that is whether the Government will have small  reserve forest of whether the Government intend to acquire more lands to bring under reserve forests ?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Forest) :-   Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we do not consider to take any more reserve forests in this particular year. It may be considered in other years and that depends on fund availability.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in view of the reply of the Hon'ble Minister, I withdraw my Cut Motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Has the hon. Member have of the House to withdraw the Cut Motion ? (Voices - yes-yes-yes). The Cut Motion is with leave  of the House withdrawn. Now I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs. 62,35,700 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head  "70- Forests".

        The motion is adopted. The Grant is passed. May I request the Minister, Forests to move Grant No.66.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Supply) :-    Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on recommendation of the Governor, I beg, Sir, to move that  an amount of Rs. 4,10,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment  during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the "71-Miscellaneous-IV-Expenditure on Issue of Free Ration and Rice Concession etc.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :-  The Motion is moved but I have got one Cut Motion which stands in the name of Shri Humphrey Hadem and Shri Lewis Bareh. Will anyone moved the Cut Motion ?

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  Mr. Deputy  Speaker Sir, all along I have been supporting the Cut Motion but I did not have a chance to move a Cut Motion. Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir,  I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 4,10,000 under Grant No. 66. Major Head "Expenditure on Issue of Free Ration and Rice Concession, etc," at page 336 of the Budget be reduced  to Rs. 1.00 i.e. the amount of the whole Demand of Rs. 4,19,000 do stand reduced to Re. 1.00. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not want to take much time of the House. As far as my knowledge is concerned this particular Grant meant for issuing free Rations and rice concession is virtually utilised for the benefit of Government servants particularly those who are in towns. But we must not forget that there are a number of Government servants especially the low paid Government servants in the interior places. I do not know how far this privilege has been extended to them and at the same time, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would request or rather draw the attention of the Government to this for taking necessary action so that the privilege form this head of expenditure can be enjoyed by all categories of Government servants irrespective of places where they are residing. About the rice concession, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the interest of the general public, I would like to say that due to rising prices almost every month, the price of foodstuff and other essential commodities has gone to beyond the reach of the common people. Therefore, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would  like to request the Government to see that at least some arrangements are made in the interior places also. We are very glad to know that this kind of help has been extended to the people of border areas and we will also be very glad if this same arrangement is made for all  interior places of the State. With these few words, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I move the Cut Motion.

Shri Lewis Bareh :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in supporting the Cut Motion. I would to say that this Head of expenditure is one of the most important heads especially for the people in the border areas. Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as it appears from the Budget Speech of the Finance Minister, the people of the border areas are facing lots of troubles due to high cost of transport of essential commodities. Even at this time the people of border areas are facing lots of troubles as a result of the last trouble between India and Pakistan. The people at this time were facing acute trouble. Now in connection with the Supply of Government rice to those affected areas,  especially the border area. For instance, the people of Lmshnong and Umkiang area have been facing difficulties. They have requested Government  many times for immediate opening of fair price shops or centres for supply of rice subsidy, but uptil not no action has been taken by Government. As such the people of these villages have now been isolated due to heavy landslide of the road and we do not know what would happen to them in the near future. So also is the case with the people of Borhat who had been affected by the natural calamities  of recent floods. About 24 houses were washed away and the people have become homeless and now they want help from the Government.  I would like, therefore, to draw the attention of the Government, through you, Sir, to open fair price shops immediately to give relief to the people in the border area and especially Borhat area. I have seen myself that the people  are homeless and the Deputy Commissioner personally visited these areas with about 200 K.G. of rice to be freely distributed to the people. This is not quite sufficient to meet the needs of the people. So I would like to propose to the Government that free rice should be extended to these affected people during  the period from July to December. Otherwise, I am afraid, Sir, the people will die of starvation. With these few words, I resume my seat.

Shri Maham Singh :-  Mr. Deputy  Speaker, Sir, in supporting the cut motion, I wish to say something on this. It appears that the amount allocated under this head this year is very high. According to our reports, the money allotted under this head has always been misused. In 1970-71 the amount allotted is Rs. 1,86,002 in 1971-72 the amount is Rs. 4,10,000  and according to the revised estimates it has been increased upto Rs. 8,50,000 and this was due to the coming  of the Bangladesh refugees, but then in 1972-73 when the refugees had gone to chair own State, the amount has been put at Rs. 4,10,000 which is nearly four times the amount allocated in 1970-71. With the achievement of Bangladesh and with the Government efforts to improve the trade with it, I do not know how the amount allotted under this head as subsidy for transport has been increased from Rs. 1,00,000 to Rs. 4,10,000.

Shri K. M. Roy Marbaniang :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose the cut motion moved by Mr. Hadem on the ground that Rs. 4,10,000 is too big an expenditure on issue of free ration and rice concession. He did not, therefore, see the other parts as given in the budget, that this includes subsidy and transport also.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  That I have mentioned during the discussion........

Shri K. M. Roy Marbaniang :-  That is why, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose the cut motion. I would say that the amount is not too big, but rather it is too small in consideration of the subsidy that is involved for the three districts of Meghalaya. I know very well that the people living  in the the border areas are suffering very much even till today. Some hon. Members had  said that the achievement of Bangladesh  has improved a lot on border trade. But this is not so uptil today. I have come to know form my people living in the border area that there is no food for them, and that is why I rise to oppose the cut motion moved by the hon. Member, Shri Hadem.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have one or two points to say. The contention of the mover of the cut motion was on the extension of the  subsidy to the Government Servants in areas wherever they are. Now, on a matter of principle, I think we have to be very careful about this question. In the first place, it is admitted that the situation as it exists in the border areas has been treated on a different footing altogether as compared with other areas of the State, whether it is in Khasi Hills, Jaintia Hills and Garo Hills. This situation has been in existence all these years and even today  the  situation has not materially changed. In fact the situation has become worst. The second thing, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is about extension of the subsidy to Government Servants in other areas of the State - whether you point out to the Bhoi Area or the Lyngngam area or the areas of the Garo Hills and Jaintia Hills, and as the hon. Member, Shri Bareh, maintained that he wants to extend these besides to all the workers  in the State, there is a strong ground for having a sound and general policy. In that case it is better have a dearness allowance. On the other hand, I feel that as soon as the situation improves we should do away with the subsidy. Thus I think it will be very harmful if we  are to go by the basis of extending  the subsidy in this way. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir,  I feel, by saying that. I do not mean I have any objection to give help and assistance on adhoc basis wherever the situation arises But on a matter of principle of extending the subsidy on whole-sale block, it is very very harmful and I oppose the idea.

Shri  H. Enowell Pohshna :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while supporting the Cut Motion I have  something very very important to say that there has been given more weightage in the words which have been spoken rather on services that the Government servant are being given. For the Government servants there is no single pie being provided to them in this Head. I agree with Mr. Kyndiah and certain other hon. Members that this should not be abolished and taken away from the Government servants.

Shri G.  Mylliemngap :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Cut Motion moved by the Member from Mawsynram that the Transport Subsidy Scheme is being given by the Government  for the people in the border areas. There has been given foodstuff for the people  of border areas. And we have also noticed that those ration-dealers or fair-price-shop dealers of border areas spend most of their days in Shillong Town and the rice, etc., meant for border areas under Transport Subsidy Scheme allotted from the Government are sold in the Town of Shillong. Therefore, I feel that this Transport Subsidy scheme should be done away with.

Shri K.M. Roy :- I  think when I say no food stuff is likely to go under Transport Subsidy system I do not mean to say specially this area because people collected in the before due to heavy rush of evacuees last year. I do not mean to say that rice was sent under Transport Subsidy Scheme.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Supply) :-   Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this grant was in the Budget in Assam Government, and in our Government which are following the same; been using the title of free ration and rice concession to Government servants, etc, in page 36. The Transport Subsidy Scheme for supplying rice to the border areas, is an item under supply spent for Government servants only for giving transport subsidy for essential commodities to the border.  Now this is a  scheme which was there before and it was only for rise  in prices in 1971-72 when the influx of refugees came and our own border people were in great difficulty when the Government of India was supplying ration to the refugees daily till it becomes necessary to supply certain amount of ration to our own people and our Government had taken up this matter with the Government of India to which the Government of India greed. This year also it is expected that since the position has  not improved and uptil now as there is a trade worth the name throughout the border it is expected that the same system of trade will be given for supply of essential commodities to the border areas. The Government of India had agreed to extend this to us and we will put it here from our budget and the Government  of India's  commitment has not been included. As a matter of fact the amount of transport is much greater than what has been misused and we are going very soon to tighten the distribution system in respect of control so that the Transport Subsidy scheme is not misused. I had already requested the co-operation of the Members, especially of those coming from the border areas for tightening up this system.

        Now, the Member from Mawprem Constituency stated that he has heard that passport system is going to be introduced and that this is not in the interest of the people who will visit Bangladesh. In respect of trade between the two countries, travel certificates and other details have not yet been duly worked out between the Governments of India and Bangladesh. As mentioned by one of the Members, I may state that the Government of India has agreed to give sanction for this scheme upto December, 1972 and it would be reviewed in October-November to find out whether it will be necessary to continue the scheme depending on whether the situation is improved or not. The coverage was  due to complete  in 1970-71 which will cover the amount to include essential commodities from the area concerned. I told that the amount is greater in 1971-72 and will be still greater in 1972-73 as the Transport Subsidy Scheme should continue as has been agreed to by the Government of India. Mr. L. Bareh has given a true picture of different places which would require fair price shops, which fact has not come to my attention. But immediately I call a report from the D.C., Khasi Hills  and I shall look into the matter accordingly. But the Minister of Revenue is looking into this and the D.C. has been asked to submit a report on the natural calamities and the Minister of Revenue will look into this and the areas affected by flood. I think, this will cover the points raised by the hon. members and I think the Members may be requested to withdraw the Cut Motion

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- In view of the enlightenment and clarifications given by the Minister-in-charge, I withdraw the Cut Motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his Cut Motion?

(Voices - yes, yes)

        Then with leave of the House the Cut Motion is withdrawn.

        Now, I put the question before the House The question is that an amount of Rs. Rs. 4,10,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment  during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the "71-Miscellaneous-IV-Expenditure on Issue of Free Ration and Rice Concession, etc." The motion is adopted. The Grant is passed.

        Now Grant No. 75. May I request Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy to move the Grant.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Industries) :-   Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, to move that an amount of Rs. 22,30,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the "96-Capital Outlay on Industrial and Economic Development-I-Investment in other Commercial and Industrial Undertakings."

Mr. Deputy Speaker :-  Motion moved . As there is not cut motion, I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.  22,30,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the "96-Capital Outlay on Industrial and Economic Development-I-Investment in other Commercial and Industrial Undertakings."

        The motion is adopted. The Grant is passed.

        Now, Grant No. 77. May I request Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy to move the Grant.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Industries) :-   Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Sir on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, to move that an amount of Rs. 2,85,000, be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the "96-Capital Outlay on Industrial and Economic Development-III-Other Miscellaneous Undertakings."

Mr. Deputy Speaker :-  Motion moved. As there is not cut motion. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs. 2,85,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the "96-Capital Outlay on Industrial and Economic Development-III-Other Miscellaneous Undertakings."

        The motion is carried. The Demand is passed.

        Now Grant No. 79 -A May I request Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy to move the Grant.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Transport) :-   Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, to move that an amount of Rs. 12,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the "114-Capital Outlay on Road and Water Transport Schemes-A-Road Transport".

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Since  I have received a cut motion from the Shri H.S. Lyngdoh, I would request  him to move the cut motion.

Shri  H. S. Lyngdoh :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to move that the total provision of Rs. 12,00,000 under Grant No. 79-A, Major Head "114-Capital Outlay on Road and Water Transport Scheme-A-Road Transport" at page 357 of the Budget, be reduced to Re. 1.00, i.e, the amount of the whole Demand of Rs. 12,00,000, do stand reduced to Re.1.00.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :-  Motion is moved. Now I would request Shri H.S. Lyngdoh to raise a general discussion on the grant.

Shri H.S. Lyngdoh :-  Sir, I move this cut motion on the whole grant as I want to discuss certain items which I want to point out to the Government. I would refer to the Budget at page 357 where the total provision of Rs. 12,00,000 under the Head 4th Five Year Plan on development scheme on road communication has been shown. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir,  many Members have just expressed their views on the policy of Government regarding the road transport development by organising some bus services in the State. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have seen the development  of the transport in the State. Sir, in the district of Khasi Hills the condition of many roads, viz, Shillong-Nongstoin road, Shillong-Balat road, Shillong-Markasa road and Shillong-Pynursla road and also some parts of G.S. Road is horrible and terribly bad and not fit for car to ply. Over  and above that, we have seen always the way private buses carry people and various kinds of goals. Despite the fact that the buses are fully packed and overcrowded, even then the carry goods, such as bags of potatoes, timber, etc., and some of the passengers have to sit on top of the buses. Many  accidents occurred in the last years resulting in immense loss of human lives and articles. So improvement of road transport has become very very essential in our State. There are two aspects of it which have to be taken into consideration. (1) the Government or the concerned Transport Authority should aim at earning good income from Transport Services and (2) the requirements and the safety of the people who are going up and down from Shillong to many places  will be well served and fully protected. So the Government should look after the convenience and comforts of the people. Mr. Deputy  Speaker, Sir, I would request the Government to increase the number of buses to ply on different routes. It has been seen that the bodies of the buses are constructed in Calcutta or elsewhere but, as some of the Members have said these are luxury buses and not fit for sending to interior places....

(Bell rang)

        Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, please give me some more time because I would like to deal with a very very important item. Now these buses in fact have not yet been sent to the interior. I would like also to mention that this provision is too small for purchase of some more buses within this financial year. Considering the price of new vehicles to be purchased and the maintenance cost only few buses could be purchased form this small amount. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are many people  in our State who know very well how to manufacture and build bodies of buses at cheaper rate but very suitable for the local condition. These buses which are plying now on roads to Cherra, Nongstoin, Mawkyrwat, etc. were built in Shillong by people from our State. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, if the Government  would let the bodies of the buses be made in the local factories or workshops it will greatly help the people to get work and also, perhaps, help the Government to get bodies built at cheaper costs which the Government will be able to meet from this small provision. In this connection, I want to suggest to the Government that the policy should be such that Government programmes are job-oriented. We have heard how the people are suffering due to unemployment. We have also heard how our people are not being employed and that somebody else form somewhere outside the State are being employed (Bell Rang). Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the demand for employment from our youths is increasing and I would request Government that, while implementing this provision, it should think in a way of job-oriented schemes that will serve the Government programmes and the people's demand. with these few words, Sir, I move the cut motion.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :-  I rise to support the motion moved by the mover, but Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not understand how there is a demand of Rs. 12 lakhs as there is no scheme. It is a lump sum amount and so, Sir, we need a clarification on this.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the cut motion. If we are to congratulate at all, I think we have to congratulate the Minister-in-charge of Transport for the beautiful buses. But in my opinion it appears that there are no proper estimates of receipts and expenditure about the future income to be derived from these buses. It is very doubtful, that these have been properly gone into. Moreover, these buses are mere waste of money because they cannot be deployed for service in the rough interior places. I should think that they are good for beauty contests and if we are to ply these buses to Garo Hills, via Gauhati, it will be some sort of a beauty contest between the buses of  Assam and Meghalaya. We all know that our people are fond of picnics, X'mas and New  year trips and they often go outside to spend the occasions. In that case these buses would be very fitting and the people would sit in these buses in beautiful and good dresses, clothes and that would be very good, Sir. But so far as income from these buses is concerned I am afraid that in the near future we will have to repent and, as one hon. Member has stated, the buses would not have much passengers and that during the summer, with plenty of rain, the buses would have to be properly maintained for which work 2/3 peons, or conductors and handymen will be employed in order to keep the beauty of these buses.

        Regarding the G.S. Road, Sir, I would like to say that it is right time for the Government of Meghalaya to start and it is good to start from the very beginning - plying its own buses on this route so that this monopoly route could be transferred to the Government of Meghalaya. I would request the Minister-in-charge of Transport to take this suggestion very seriously especially with the shifting of the capital from Shillong to Gauhati or elsewhere many of our people who are employed in the Assam State Road Transport Corporation will have to go to Gauhati  or somewhere in Silchar or Tinsukia. That is why I say why not take over this  Corporation so that our people employed in the Assam State Road Transport Corporation could be brought over here and we will also derive benefits in our State and thereby solve a part of our unemployment problem. So, Sir, before I take my seat I would earnestly request our Transport Minister to consider these aspects very seriously. Although it has been the habit of this side of the House to withdraw the cut motion after getting the replies from the Minister, of course we may withdraw later on, but while  withdrawing our cut motion I request the Government not to take advantage of it. Thank you, Sir.

Shri K.M. Roy :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker,  Sir, I rise to oppose the cut motion which has been moved by Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh on the ground that he himself has admitted that an amount of Rs. 12 lakhs is too small. I also differ with the contention of the hon. Member  from Nongtalang who said that these buses are too clean and he seems to be very much afraid to sit in these buses. But we should know which one is good for us, whether we like cleanliness in our buses or should prefer dirty one.      

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna :-  I think the member agrees that a thing of beauty is a joy forever.

(Laughter)

Shri K.M. Roy :-  Whatever anyone could say I do maintain that cleanliness is important. I am not sure what our hon. Member from Nongtalang like.

Shri  Humphrey Hadem :- Are you still with beauty ? (Laughter)

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna :-  Therefore, you oppose the cut motion for beauty's sake! (Laughter.)

Shri K.M. Roy :-  Probably these buses will be fit for the Shillong-Tura road they may make good competition with the Assam Road Transport Corporation buses. As far as I know these buses are already plying on the Shillong-Tura road right from the 16th of this month. (Voices - You like the idea?)

        Yes I like the idea. Even the Member from Sohryngkham who moved the cut motion on the Grants at least on Transport had admitted that these buses should be extended to his constituency also. With few words, Sir, I oppose the cut motion which has been moved by my friend from the other side.

Shri Maham Singh :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this grant of the Budget, I would congratulate the Transport Minister for having introduced on the road good buses for the convenience of the travelling public. But there is one thing which I want to say and that is that these buses have also to be taken care of. At present Government has not at all constructed garages to park them. Further, the Government has taken up to operate on roads which are less important which they should not have taken. They should have taken up at the first instance the most important road that is the Shillong-Gauhati road where they should have taken  the sole control, management and ownership instead of having a Joint Corporation. A Joint Corporation actually suffers from certain drawbacks and we will not be able to run the Corporation efficiently. Moreover, this road is also a lifeline of our trade and commerce not only for Shillong but for the whole State. Government  should have taken up this  road and if it cannot run the route itself it should have given to local private bodies or Companies to operate. In the Plains of Assam we do not have joint management in a single case and Government of Assam would not have agreed to joint management with our Government in any undertaking situated within its area. Government should have decided for sole management earlier but what is mover unfortunate when all find that Government  has not made up their decision whether they will continue this joint corporation or take up the management itself because in the Budget address of the Finance Minister, he sated that "although the Assam State Road Transport Corporation has been renamed the Assam and Meghalaya State Road Transport Corporation after 21st January 1972 final decision regarding the continuance of a joint corporation is expected to be taken within a few months". Government should take bold steps for the benefit of its  people for their employment and in order to improve their life, they should take over transport on this road i.e., the Shillong-Gauhati road. Besides this road will bring more revenue to the Government

Shri Francis K. Mawlot :-  Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the cut motion move by Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh. Mr. Maham Singh just now has referred to one road and that is the main communication line which is the Shillong-Gauhati road. I am one of the thousands who are still at the back side of the picture or in the black curtain as to whether this Shella-Dawki road and Jowai-Garampani roads have been taken up by the Government of Meghalaya or not. (The Deputy Speaker, vacated the Chair for the Speaker) If not, I would suggest the Government through you, Sir, that these two roads should be taken up by the Government very soon.

Mr. Speaker :-  You mean Government should monopolise the roads?

Shri Grosswell Mylliemngap :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Cut Motion. When our autonomous State was inaugurated, the first question of the people was whether the G.S. road is under the control of our Government or not and when they learned that it was not, they shrink their nose and we were not happy with that and then when the full-fledged State was inaugurated, they once again asked the same question whether the G.S. Road is under the control of the Government or not and they shrink their noses again when they learned that the Government has made an agreement that there will be a joint Corporation with the Government of Assam for six months. Now it has been stated by one of the hon. Members that the G.S. Road is a life-line of our District and I feel that if the Government is not going to take over the passenger traffic at most or at least. I do not know what to say because I feel that the Government should take over immediately the goods traffic so that there will be a competition and if there are competitions I am sure that the transport charges will come down to a great extent. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government I hope will derive great benefit from this goods traffic and also the consumers goods that the people are purchasing will be at a reduced price. So I feel that the Government should take over the goods traffic immediately, and if they are not going to take over immediately the passenger traffic, at least they should try to take over the goods traffic.

Shri Ripple Kyndiah :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, at present the subject matter of discussion is the taking over of the G.S. Road transport which is a very relevant point of this demand for grants. Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, always believe that in the matter which is of great importance to the whole State as this one, we should not decide or take decision up hastily otherwise we will find troubles afterwards as there is Khasi saying "Wat bam ja khluid" which is correct in every respect. So I feel that the Government should take up this matter carefully and steadily  and I can congratulate the Government for going on a bit slow in this matter. Having this joint corporation is not a permanent solution to the problem but it is a temporary arrangement and from the speech of the Finance Minister it is clear to see that we shall be able to run the whole transport after sometime. So we have to be realistic in order to help the Government  come to a sound decision. Either we go for a Corporation or run the road transport by Government or to provide some entrepreneurs to run the road transport in our State. These are the three suggestions which I feel will be considered very earnestly and seriously.

Mr. Speaker :-  What is your opinion ? Supposing this State Government will take over the road transport, will it be possible to get all the motor cars ?

Shri Ripple Kyndiah :-  On this question I have seen there are 12 lakhs of rupees and only 4 lakhs 50  thousand of rupees which is Members that is something like demonopolisation. This is not the question ; it is the question of taking over of the road transport which is a very   important question. Now I feel that in the present context considering the need to employ the people of various professions like the drivers, conductors and so on, Government should give a decision on this matter or if possible they can go for more money from the Government of India or any other agencies and all that.  So on this point I feel very strongly Mr. Speaker,  Sir, that I immediately. On having introduced these buses in the two routes we will gain the experiences in the transport administration and all that which we cannot come to a quick conclusion whether they are not good buses or merely a show business on the part of this department. Unless we get trained personnel to run these buses and transport business we cannot take over the control from the Assam State Road Transport Corporation. Now, we come to the last part of the budget discussion. Therefore this experiment will be good to use because after some time we will come to a decision. With these few words, Sir, I oppose the Cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :-   May I request the Minister to reply

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Transport) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, the demand has been made in a lump sum, for establishment of Transport Services, for Rs. 11,75,000. The break-up under various item like land, plant and machineries etc could not be given at present since the exact nature of our schemes has not emerged. This is because the future transport policy of our State is closely linked up with the future of the Assam and Meghalaya States Road Transport Corporation. A study is being made as to how best the interest of this State can be served keeping in view the overall transport problem of this area.  The Government have to choose between the alternatives available, viz., to have a joint Corporation with Assam, to have an independent Corporation for the whole State, to have a joint Corporation with Assam for the Inter-State routes and a separate Corporation for routes within the state, or not to have a Corporation at all and run the services departmentally. Details can only be indicated after knowing as to what we are getting out of the Corporation, if it is divided. They will have to  take different shapes if a decision is taken in favour of any other alternative. This also involves the whole question of monopoly on the three routes which are inter-State routes. The Shillong-Gauhati, Shillong-Silchar and Shillong-Haflong routes are under the monopolistic control except the Shillong-Tura Route part of which falls within our State. It will not be necessary at the moment to have  such overall control of this G.S. Road while the question of taking over the Corporation has not yet been decided. As the different Members had mentioned and as our hon. Member from Jaiaw had just pointed out, it seems that many Member  have stressed the question  of taking over the Gauhati-Shillong Route. But as a decision should not be made in a hurry because it will affect the whole future of the State.  One decision we have to make urgently in this regard is that we have to take strong measures and and steps that our transport  department should not be a monopolistic one. There are also other functions that we should perform and that we should open up new schemes for the development of this old department with the changing circumstances. One hon. Member has stated that the bringing about of the new deluxe buses in the State is merely a competition or a "Beauty Contest". That is the reason who we agreed to a joint Corporation for these six months so that our Directors can study all the problems relating to the Transport Corporation . So unless we come to certain decisions as to the working of the Corporation and its policy so far followed by the Assam Government we cannot say how perfect these buses will prove in services for the interest of the people of this State.

        Let me now come to the other aspect of the subject matter. The hon. Member from Pariong has stated about the necessity of taking over the routes in the State which fall within the purview of the Transport Department. Here the transport business is limited to certain factors in which for the whole State such routes were not included in the 4th Five Year Plan. Because the Autonomous State came into being only in the month of April, 1970 and by which  time the Planning Commission had not envisaged a correct target to be achieved within the short span of time. We also did not intend to take over the responsibilities of the Shillong-Gauhati Route at the first instance. Moreover, it has been already proposed in the 4th Five Year Plan to reduce the amount under this Head as far as practicable to avoid unnecessary expenditures and that has been finalised in the year 1960-70. We have seen that the allocation of fund to be placed at the disposal of the Department did not tally with the working expenditure of the 4th Plan. I we take all the routes now from the control of the Assam State Road Transport Corporation we don't know what will be the financial implication that we have to incur under this head. We have to study those implications how much we have to bear, how much we have to implement, it is not advisable to come to hasty decision. By taking over the Shillong-Gauhati route the question of taking over the Interstate Routes also will arise. We cannot go against the policy of the Government of India in this regard. We will also have to judge the facilities and the return and outcome from this. There are interstate agreements. If we could solve those problems and current  issues coming  out  of these irregularities, then we could have the interstate routes to be worked out by the 3 States and then  we have to link with the Interstate Communication of the whole India.  This question is to be considered and implemented by the Government of India itself in the Transport Ministry and to give its advice on how to run this Interstate Corporation by this State undertaking. So these are not things that we are to decide before hand. The hon. Member  from Nongtalang stated that he regretted that so far as maintenance and keeping of the Deluxe Buses is concerned, it was only a show-business on the part  of the department he said. I believe that the responsibilities will be borne by our people and I don't think that we should remain backward always. We should adapt  ourselves with the changing aspirations of the people and also we should look to have some improvements brought forward  such as the introduction of these buses. They are comfortable and they are convenient for the travellers.  Now,  let me come to the argument of the mover of the cut motion regarding the necessity of building the bodies of those buses here in our State. I had discussions with the local workshop and we have come to an agreement that he will find out improved bodies to be made of steel, aluminum and glass. But at the moment I was informed that there were no builders  in Shillong so far as improved bus bodies were concerned which were run by the private operators. As I stated earlier, we have only recently taken over the transport control from the sole management by the Assam Government. Now, regarding the remarks made by Shri Pohshna about the body and the structure of our bus. Still our buses in the State are not so much better than the buses in other parts of India. They are comfortable of high standard modern buses even though they are inferior to the buses of other countries. Still the  people have appreciated them and we are proud of having them. I think our State should should also march ahead in competition with other States. Certain improvements should be made to the conditions. Most of the emphasis of the Members has been focussed on the taking over of the Route. I do certainly agree with many of their remarks and appreciate their desire of having the G.S. Route and many other Routes under the control of our Government. We cannot straightaway jump to this position which involves so many things. In this connection, I would request the members to have a little patience so that when a decision is  made after examining and considering thoroughly all the aspects like financing, innovations, reducing the cost of management and earnings and so on and so forth we shall come to a conclusion of having all assets and liabilities of the transport department in our own hands. Since I have made a reply to most of the aspects of the whole problem and the points made by the Members, I would request the mover kindly withdraw his Cut Motion.

Prof. Martin N. Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have listened to the information given by the Hon'ble Minister. But Sir, I want some more clarification on the Transport Department. Last time, and on several occasions, I found that the Department is issuing permit special permit to some concerned private owners to carry potato from the, interior to Gauhati through the G.S. Route in the private trucks, without having any no-objection certificate from the Transport Department

Mr. Speaker :- So every body will take up potato trade with a special permit

(Laughter)

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Transport) :- But that is a different matter. It deals with a particular Grant. it does not fall within this category which may be taken with particular discussion.

Shri Maham Singh :-  On a point of clarification Mr. Speaker, Sir. We have got a monopoly of running the goods traffic in the G.S. Road. But in view of the fact that the Government has not decided taking up this Route and run the G.S. Route by itself or give to the local company concerned the whole monopoly for goods traffic should be lifted.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Transport) :-   This involves the whole question of taking over this Route so far the Transport Corporation is concerned, because the monopoly is of the Assam Government. They earlier ran it as departmental undertaking and only very recently, they converted it into a corporation. So when we discuss the question we should see whether we should take over the same corporation or not. Well the whole thing is being discussed about the economics of it and the financing of it. Now I just request the Members to wait at the moment we have not decided until these facts and figures have been studied. However, all these will be examined.

Mr. Speaker :- The Minister has requested the mover of the cut motion to have patience as I understand, if there is any provision for increasing the amount, the Government would have gone for it. May I take that the mover of the cut motion is willing to withdraw ?

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, my intention of moving this cut motion is that not only to take over G.S. Road but some other roads also. I had mentioned that Government send buses to ply on all these roads at that will in fact bring income to the Government. So my intention is that while implementing this Fourth Five Year Plan which lay emphasis infact on road communications Government should formulate a scheme which is job reoriented so that the people in the State who are now aggrieved of being unemployed and those who have been transferred to Assam Valley will be getting employment under the scheme. This is my intention. Since the Minister has said that it needs more time for careful study I withdraw the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :-  Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the cut motion ? The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn. Now I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.12,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "114- Capital Outlay on Road and Water Transport Schemes". The motion is carried and the grant is passed. Now may I request the Minister (Trade and Commerce) to move Grant No. 80.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Trade and Commerce) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, to move that an amount of Rs. 15,04,400, be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the "124-Capital Outlay on Schemes of Government Trading".

Mr. Speaker :-  The motion is moved. As motion on this Grant, I put the question before the House. The Question is that an amount of Rs. 15,04,400 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the "124-Capital Outlay on Schemes of Government Trading".

Mr. Speaker :-  The motion is adopted and the Grant is passed.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, to move that an amount of Rs. 2,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the " Q- Loans and Advances, etc. (VI - Industrial Loans)".

Mr. Speaker :- The motion is moved. I have received one cut motion from the three hon. members, Shri F.K. Mawlot, Shri Enowell Pohshna and Shri L. Bareh. Who will move the cut motion?

Shri F. K. Mawlot :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 2,00,000 under Grant No. 87, Major Head "VI-Industrial Loans" at page 373 of the Budget be reduced to Re.1, i.e, the amount of the whole Demand of Rs. 2,00,000 do stand reduced to Re.1.

Mr. Speaker :-  The cut motion is moved.

Shri F.K. Mawlot :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, since our rules of procedure and conduct of business are going to be amended let me utilise one provision that is Rule 28 which provides that we can speak in Khasi also.

Mr. Speaker :-  According to convention that we have adopted in this House if we want to speak in Khasi you have to give in advance a copy of the English translation. The hon. Members who cannot express in English I can allow them to speak in their mother tongue. But I know that you can very well express in English.

Shri F. K. Mawlot :-  But that has not come into force.

Shri H. Hadem :-  But the rule does not say about the convention.

Mr. Speaker :- You need not point out the Rules to me. I said that for the advantage of the hon. Member. But if he wants that his speech will go without any record, then what purpose will it serve ? 

Shri F.K. Mawlot :-  Well Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not want to lose my points. I move this cut motion as this amount of Rs. 2,00,000 has been provided for the annual loan as specified in page 373 of Volume III. This amount includes loan to cottage industries and small scale industries. I have no objection to that.

        But Since many years back I came to know that there are persons who got this loan form the Government for the improvement of their industrial institutes. And as far as I know, none of these people who received loans have utilised that money for the development of their industrial institutes especially, in the rural areas. Last year, the Assistant Director of Industries came over to Nongstoin where we had a talk. The whole evening we were going round the villages seeing the places, where people want to start their industries. We have been promised that those persons will be given grant to help them improve their industrial institutes. We are still waiting to get those grants.  I have seen last week just in front of the Meghalaya Secretariat some people sitting on the fence and when I asked them what for they were waiting, they answered  that they were waiting for loans form that particular office. The loan they are getting is only Rs. 2,000 or only 2,500. Out of this Rs. 2,500 they are supposed to improve their industries, etc. But ultimately they will get only Rs. 50 as loan. They have to pay to the head clerk, clerks and typists and so on and so forth. Some times these people have been asked to come tomorrow, day after tomorrow, next week or next months. They have to come from their villages to  Shillong spending days to reach and to go back. In such a way they have to spend money for nothing. So in this regard I have nothing but to say that if we are to adopt the scheme, I would remind the House of the words used by the hon. Member form Sohryngkham saying that our schemes must not be mushroom schemes.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Cut Motion. Briefly with regard to matters raised by the hon. Member form Nongstoin, I also had some experiences in meeting the gentlemen, this unfortunate person who promised industrial loans. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, Sir, a very amazing thing has taken place in this district which a sum of Rs. 3 lakhs was withdrawn from the bank on the 31st March 1972 in anticipation of payment of industrial loans. These loans came out even today at the district office. These loans meant for 1971-72 should have been paid up before 31st March, 1972. This amounts to temporary mis-appropriation of money. Taking out the money and keeping it aside in the office for some months is a loss of 1 per cent interest. If this money is kept in the bank there will be a little more interest for the Finance Minister to show in the Revenue Receipt Book. It is therefore a sad condition.

Prof. Peter Garnett Marbaniang :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, while opposing the Cut Motion. I want to draw the attention of the Government to a particular head "Industrial Loan". You see, Sir, we have got our State which is backward industrially but we are fortunate that we have many young men with diplomas in different trades and these young men really need these loans. The trouble is that they do not have property  to mortgage. What they have is the know-how. Now if these loans are actually to be given to our people I feel that the Government should consider this matter. If some of the young men approach for loans and if they have, say, some responsible people to support their claims and also the Government knowing that they have got diplomas and experiences, loans should be given to them.

Mr. Speaker :-  Are you supporting the Cut Motion ?

Shri Peter Garnett Marbaniang :-  I have already said right form the beginning that I am opposing the Cut Motion.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Speaker Sir, just one point which has struck me forcibly is that some  of the hon. Members have made certain statements and it is my duty to bring to the notice of the House. Now the hon. Member from Nongstoin constituency has made a very important statement. He said that no one of those loanee have utilised the loans given to them. I am also in the committee for giving grants and loans and I know many people have utilised the loans properly and they are now prosperous. But to blame the officers and staff of the office concerned is to down-grade them because I know many of them are doing the duties properly. If there are any instances of corruption it is upto the Government to take  necessary action. So I would appeal to the hon. Members to balance their speech because if we are to blame the officers a day will come when we will not have any confidence in our office staff. I know for sure that quite a number of people have benefitted with this loan of Rs. 2,500 or 2000. With these few words, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I oppose the Cut Motion.

Mr. Speaker :-  Now I will close the discussion on the Grant. Each participant should concentrate on the working of the Department rather than on the policy matter. I will invite the Minister-in-charge to reply.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, Grant No. 87 is for industrial loans-small industrial loans for cottage industries and small scale industries. Some of the Members had said that there is something wrong in the Department. Well, I do not know, because as you all know, we have inherited a number of people and they are all people of this State and if there is anything going wrong that need to be corrected.

Mr. Speaker :- May I request the Hon'ble Minister to be brief. Because the fact is that there are no charges against the policy  of the Government but only to check administration of the Department.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Industries) :- Well, Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is my intention and the intention of the Government to improve and tone up the administration and to try to see that if there is any corruption that will be looked into. In this connection it is the intension of the Government to improve the anti-corruption branch and we will do something at the official level as well a unofficial level to check the mistake or the mistake or the wrong implementation of the schemes and plans. It depends on the character of the people behind the office. I would therefore only say that it is unfortunate that people have been asked  to come tomorrow day after tomorrow. I have given instructions that these things should be stopped and we will certainly do our best regarding cases which Mr. Peter Marbaniang was pointed out about the young men  who have no properties to mortgage. These people should be given training so that they can have financial capacity to start industries. The policy of the Government is that no mortgage is necessary for a loan of Rs. 2,500 and so any youngman having training and diploma can approach the Government for loans, especially with our intensive schemes we have decided to give assistance to start their own industries. So I would request the hon. Member to withdraw his Cut Motion.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  But we understand that for any loan mortgage is necessary. We have seen in Kachari mortgage papers are filled up even for an amount of Rs. 2,500 and Rs. 2,000.

Mr. Speaker :-  This Grant will have to be disposed of before the House stands adjourned today. You see the whole trouble lies on me. On my right side I have got friends who want top take all officers into confidence while on my left side many of my friends blame the officers fro corruption. That is a wrong policy. We should try to strike a balance and should find out real and concrete help to the Government. 

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, for loans of the year 1971-72, the money was withdrawn from the banks and it was kept in office for three months and this means a loss of one percent interest to the Government..

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Industries) :-   Mr. Speaker,  Sir, I am aware of this and I will certainly look into it.

Mr. Speaker :-  So will the hon. Mover of the Cut Motion with draw the Cut Motion?

Shri Francis K. Mawlot :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the Minister agrees to look into the mater and at the sametime before giving these loans proper checking will be made, I withdraw the Cut Motion.

Mr. Speaker :- So may I have the leave of the House that the Cut Motion be withdrawn ? (Voices: Yes, Yes). So the Cut Motion with leave of the House stands withdrawn. Now I put the question before the House. The question is "that an amount of Rs. 2 lakhs be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "Q- Loans and Advances, etc. (VI- Industrial Loans)".

        The Motion is carried. The Demand is passed.

        May I request the Minister, Industries to move Grant No. 91?

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, to move that an amount of Rs. 3,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the "Q- Loans and Advances, etc. (X- Housing Loans)".

Mr. Speaker :-  The motion is moved. But I received one Cut Motion to be moved by Shri Humphrey Hadem.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 3,00,000 under Grant No. 91, Major Head "Q- Loans and Advances, etc. (Housing Loans", at page 377 of the Budget bee reduced to Re.1 i.e. the amount of the whole Demand of Rs. 3,00,000 do stand reduced to Re.1.

Mr. Speaker :-  The Cut Motion is moved, please raise a discussion and try to be brief.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I shall be as brief as possible. The details of this particular Grant Sir, we see in Volume III of the Budget at page 90. There we find that there are two provisions for loans, district-wise. Loan under the Low Income Group Housing Schemes is for Rs. 1,60,000, and No. 4-Loans under Middle Income Group Housing Schemes and the total amount of Rs. 3,00,000 is demanded. But as a commentary on this Mr. Speaker, Sir, at page 17 of the Budget Speech, the Finance Minister has stated that during the current financial year it is proposed to take up the formulation and implementation of certain schemes for Urban Development. The Directorate of Town and Country Planning and Housing has already been started and that housings loan under the low income group, will be given this year to the people. The amount as provided in the budget under this head, I may say. Mr. Speaker, is not meant for the benefit of the people living in the interior areas of the State, but it is meant only for those people who are living in the towns. So I just want to bring to the notice of the Government, Sir, that it is not only people living in the towns who need help and assistance for housing under the housing loans scheme but people in the interior also are expected to have these loans facilities from the Government. Probably, by this time, Government might have received a good number of applications for loans from the interior people and just wish and hope that Government will at least consider their cases also. There is nothing impossible that Government can do if they are willing to do. So I hope this year something could be done to help the interior people as a good gesture on the part of the Government. With these few words, I resume my seat.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Cut Motion.

Mr. Speaker :-  You speak only new points.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna :-  Yes, Sir, I have only one point. If you give loan to the town people, they will give their houses on rent. But people in the rural areas will use the loan for constructing their residential houses. So I would request Government to consider the request of my hon. friend very seriously, because as I have said, town people will will use the loan for renting their houses while poor people in the interior will properly use the loan for their own residential houses.

Shri Maham Singh :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, in supporting the cut motion,  I also have something to say on this. The amount of Rs. 3,00,000 is very small an amount, and I do not know how many persons are going to get loan while lakhs of rupees has been spent for providing ears to the Ministers. For 9 Ministers it will come to about 3 lakhs of rupees, and for giving loan to our people in the State under the housing Scheme we are providing only Rs. 3 lakhs.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- And Rs. 20 lakhs to A.S.E.B. 

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are not going to cover the rural housing Scheme with this particular provision. On the other hand, the Government of India have already taken up a programme to assist the landless people in the rural areas for housing. Unfortunately, in our State we do not have a land tenure system which will enable our people to get benefit under the Scheme, because  loans are sanctioned against the land and the house to be built and these will have to be mortgaged to Government. Therefore, Government is aware of this fact and we are taking up the matter with the Government of India so that our State will get the benefit of the scheme, which will provide better housing for the rural population. In this connection the problem of land tenure system is standing in the way, in as much as the people must have title over the land. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, unless and until our hon. Members in this House come forward with concrete suggestion how to tackle this particular problem , I do not think the people will be able to derive much benefit as provided in the scheme. This is a matter which is being discussed with the Government of India and I hope Government will be in a position to find out some alternative arrangements to meet the particular requirements  of the people in the rural areas to get this housing loan scheme. So unless and until we can remove these defects of title over the land, we cannot go in a big way to provide better housing facilities for our rural population.

        Again, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry to note that the hon. Member from Mawprem has made a comparison on this subject with the provision of cars to Ministers.

        I and my colleagues have not taken resort to it right now. But I think not to adopt the above line is not possible to run the administration. But it is not definite about the scheme for the rural population. It is likely that there where the rural people are living without any house, the people in the towns should not demand more housing facilities and I would request the hon. Members not to insist upon that.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Industries) :-  The sum provided is totally inadequate for the whole programme. Because of the shortage of fund in the whole Plan the Department is not taking up the scheme and for a number of years the scheme has been kept aside. A very few cases have to be undertaken because of some funds having disbursed in second had third installments. But their are other schemes centrally sponsored scheme for housing and there will be a Conference in Delhi to which I have been invited. As already indicated by the Chief Minister, that will depend upon the solving the problem on the title over land, in several cities.  And this is not restricted to urban housing alone. It is necessary as indicated by Mr. Hadem that this housing loan is not restricted to the urban area, it is for the whole State. But because of the inadequacy of fund, it is of course restricted to few cases, and for that funds were allocated to this Department. We hope that after the Fifth Plan is implemented, we will be able to provide housing loans. With these few words I would request the hon. Members  to withdraw the Cut Motion.

Mr. Speaker :-  What has the mover of the Cut Motion to say?

Shri H. Hadem :-  Regarding the clarification given about the Housing Scheme, I just want to know who shall be submitting the scheme and within what time?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Government has taken the initiative. It is outside the plan for rural housing and many places in particular. As I stated, there are certain difficulties regarding land tenure system. I would like to request the hon. Members to kindly give suggestion as to how we could over-come the difficulty regarding the title over land.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- I am grateful that the Chief Minister has invited suggestions as to how to solve the difficulties of the title over land as per Assam Land Revenue Regulations. In the House we could have given some assistance and I may say that it is never applied to the Khasi States. We may go forward with the legislation on title over land.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :-  We shall have discussion on title over land later.

Shri Dhruba Nath Joshi :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, will the Minister-in-charge of Housing clarify one small point, that is, regarding price of building materials? Everybody knows that the price of building materials is increasing like anything when the Housing Scheme had been taken up by the Government of India.

Mr.  Speaker :-  Whether you want clarification of the point or want to discuss.

Shri Dhruba Nath Joshi :-  My point is that the price of building materials is going up every day and I want clarification from the Government, i.e., Minister-in-charge.

Mr. Speaker :-  I don't think the Minister will be able to clarify such a lengthy question now.

        What about the mind of the Mover of the cut motion ?

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the clarification and explanation given by the Minister as well as the Chief Minister, I would like to withdraw my cut motion if the House permits.

Mr. Speaker :-  May I understand the House grants leave that the cut motion by withdrawn ?

        The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn. Now I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs. 3,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of head "Q-Loans and Advances, etc. (X-Housing Loans)".

        The Motion is carried. The Demand is passed.

        Now, may I request the Minister-in-charge to Tourism to move Grant No. 51.

Shri Stanley D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Tourism) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, to move that an amount of Rs. 7,75,100 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the "39-Miscellaneous, Social and Developmental Organisation-IX-Tourist Organisation."

Mr. Speaker :-  Motion  is moved. I have received one cut motion to be moved by Shri Humphrey Hadem.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 7,75,100 under Grant No. 51, Major Head "30-Miscellaneous, Social and Developmental Organisation (IX-Tourist Organisation) at page 280 of the Budget, be reduced to Re.1. i.e. the amount of the whole demand of Rs. 7,75,100 do stand reduced to Rs. 1.00.

Mr. Speaker :- The cut motion is moved. Now I request the mover to raise a general discussion on the grant?

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, the detailed expenditure can be seen at page 63 of the Budget. I will concentrate only on this particular Grant. What I would like to say Mr. Speaker, Sir, is that provision has been made only for construction of a Tourist Lodge at Nongtalang and also other facilities have been envisaged. But I would like to bring to the notice of the Government that the Jaintia Hills District has got not only one or two places of Tourists, attraction but there are many beauty spots there. Many tourists are going to Garamapani and other places but the benefits are not coming to our Government, these are going to North Cachar Hills because the Assam State Electricity Board has got a Circuit House there. So I would like to suggest, Sir, that if something can be done for the improvement of some places, it would go a long way in promoting tourism. As for example, there are ancient monuments and antiques are found at Nongtalang. If a Tourists Lodge can be constructed by the side of the Kupli river,  which is inside the Meghalaya State we can earn a lot; I would also like to mention here that if such type of construction can be undertaken at places like Borghat, Balat, etc. I think the tourist will visit those places also. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to move this cut motion by asking one more clarification, i.e., item under detailed expenditure on item No. (a) conducting tours including body building chess. Sir, I could not understand what is body building?

(Laughter)

Shri H. S. Lyngdoh :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, in supporting the cut motion moved by Mr. Hadem, I would like to tell him that he has forgotten that there is a Tourist Bungalow at Thadlaskein. Only yesterday, I was coming from Jowai with some of my friends. At Thadlaskein I found there was a building; a hanging building, one side is leaning towards east and the other towards west. I do not know exactly when this building was constructed, may be 15/20 years ago, but it has become very dangerous for human beings, particularly for the tourists. I do not know whether it was constructed by our new Government or old Government.

Mr. Speaker :-  Since you have said that it was constructed some 15 or 20 years ago, certainly it was not constructed by our new Government.

Shri H.S. Lyngdoh :- It may be so because I am not an engineer or expert. But actually what I want to say is that this Bungalow has become very dangerous for human beings, or any living beings.

        Another thing, Sir, we have seen that the amount had been ear-marked before we got the allotment from the Central Government in the 4th Plan on Tourism and this scheme is envisaged under Grant No. 51. I would like to mention here that some time in the past our District Council had passed a resolution suggesting to the Government to initiate some activities regarding Tourism in certain beauty spots in the State. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I remember in the year 1967 or 1968 some schemes were demanded for development of beauty spots around the hot springs and tenders were invited by the Mawsynram Division (PWD) to build a road and a bridge there for attracting tourists and also for the convenience of the local people. But , Sir, that scheme has not disappeared and we do not know where the amount has gone!

Mr. Speaker :-  When was that ?

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :-  Some time in 1968.

Mr. Speaker :- How can the Minister be held resp9onsible when he was not yet Minister then ?

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- I think, Sir, the Government will have to examine because the money has been allotted in the 4th Plan and because tenders have been called for and the Government who inherited from this predecessor Government must know and all the records must be there (Bell rang). With these few words, Sir, I support the cut motion.

Shri Maham Singh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have some thing to say and I do not want to make time. I want just to bring one thing to the notice of the Government. Yesterday, when I was having an evening walk along the Ward Lake, which is a beauty spot and also where so many suicides are taking place, I noticed one embankment that needs immediate repair and actually it may be washed away. So, Sir, may only request is for the Government to take immediate action so that this embankment will not be washed away.

Prof. P.G. Marbaniang :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, while opposing the Cut Motion  I wish to seek clarification from the Government.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :-  I think he is seeking clarification on the points he has already placed.

Prof. P.G. Marbaniang :- As the hon. Member from Mawprem has pointed out Ward Lake is a beauty spot where there are many boats and people go there and row them. The people who row the boats have to pay money, I think, on hourly basis or something like that. But Sir, what I want to know is who collects the money and to whose pockets the money goes.

Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, just a little while I rise to oppose the Cut Motion. On the actuals for 1970-71 there is an amount of Rs. 3,15,800 and in the budget estimates for 1972-73 it has more than doubled i.e. Rs. 7,75,500. I would also like to make some observations. The other day I went to Cherra, I happened to see that there is a beauty spot facing the Falls of Nohsngithiang. The stonewall facing the falls is now in a very dilapidated condition and if one is not careful there is danger of one falling off the cliff into the abyss. Then there is also another beautiful spot at Sohbar better known as Kynrem falls.

Mr. Speaker :-  May I request the hon. Member not to confine himself to minute details as the allocation of grants is decided on policy matter. To dwell on minute details like repairs and description of beauty spots is a waste of time although I think that the whole of Meghalaya is beautiful.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I fully agree that we should get clarifications from the Minister-in-charge of Tourism, I would also like to make a suggestion whether arrangement can be made for some M.L.As to visit different places of Meghalaya as tourists and suggest measures ? (laughter).

Mr. Speaker :-  In fact, the Chief Minister has, from the very beginning, suggested that arrangements should be made so that M.L.A.s from the eastern parts should be made to visit the western parts and the M.L.As from the western parts should be made to visit the eastern parts. However, I think that this does not come under the purview of my ruling (laughter).

( A Voices - Recommended the member from Mawhati)

Shri D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on this subject to tourism, I fully associate myself with my friends for development of national parks and I feel that the state of Meghalaya is indeed a patch of beauty because it is not lacking in flora and fauna and I suggest to the Government that some practical scheme should be taken up to earmark certain forest reserves in these hills for the development of these National Parks to attract tourists to our State to augment its meagre economic position.

Mr. Speaker :- Discussion on this Budget takes time and I do not want to lengthen the time hereby making our Reporters suffer and reach the point of collapse. So I request the Minister-in-charge of Forests to reply.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Tourism etc.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am glad that a number of Members have taken keen interest in this Department of Tourism. First of all, they have suggested that there are many places that can be improved for tourist attraction, like Nartiang, Garampani and Borghat. It depends on the funds and programmes and I must remind the Members that there are tourists who are to come from other parts of the world and other parts of the country to visit our State. So some central local spots with full  facilities should be established, as in other parts of the country. That is why we are concentrating first on one or two places as far as possible and develop them for tourists, to attract  them them to come from different parts of the country and from other parts of the world. Then we hope to develop different beauty spots in the State and there are different points in the scheme that were discussed which would be taken into consideration in the plans that we are preparing in the future. Now I come to another question and for the clarification of the hon. Member with regard to item 8, i.e., building of bus chassis it is expected to get about one or two mini buses that are small buses for tourists to go round our State. This item is for body building of the mini buses and schemes are to be taken up. Another place included in the scheme for tourism is Thadlaskein which needs repair and this is not yet under our control. We wrote to the D.C. for this and there is a proposal to build a house and it is included in the scheme. The Member form Pariong had mentioned about a hot spring at Diwah near Jakrem to be included on item No. 5 page 33. I have got no information whatsoever as to what happened in 1967-68 which was under another Government. I am not sure whether we will be able to get information to find out whether the money had been allotted and what happened  to it.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :-  I think it is in 1969-70.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Tourism etc.) :- Whatever it is we will try to find out if any money was allotted.

Mr. Speaker :-  I request Mr.  Hopingstone Lyngdoh to find out about that money. (laughter). I do not think we can go for details.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Tourism etc.) :- An hon. Member form Cantonment has suggested about the National park and I will inform him we will consider to establish it in different places but again this is an expensive proposition and it will take a number of years to develop and  a long time to get a return on money invested. So it not a thing that we can do overnight.

Mr. Speaker :-  There are many things to attract tourists.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister, Tourism etc.) :- We have to make a start. As I said in my speech whether we can get income from tourists will depend on whether the Government of India will withdraw the restrictions it has withdrawn them form Kashmir. I now request the hon. Member to withdraw his cut motion on tourism.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Well, Sir, in view of the clarification and assurances of the Minister-in-charge that something will be done when funds will permit and in view of paucity of funds at present, I think I would like to withdraw my cut motion as there is no way out if the House allows.

Mr. Speaker :-  Has the hon. member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion? The cut motion with leave of the House stands withdrawn. Now I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.7,75,100 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "39-Miscellaneous, Social and Development Organisation-IX-Tourists Organisation".

        The motion is carried. The Demand is passed. Other Demands will be carried over tomorrow. Now I request Mr. B.B. Lyngdoh Minister for Parliamentary Affairs, to lay a report of the Rules Committee with its recommendations.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Parliamentary Affairs) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the report of the Rules Committee with its recommendations.


ADJOURNMENT

Mr. Speaker :-  Now the House stands adjourned till 10 a.m. on Wednesday the 28th June, 1972.

Dated Shillong

R..T. RYMBAI,

the 27th June, 1972

Secretary,

Meghalaya Legislative Assembly.