Proceedings of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly assembled at 10 a.m. on Thursday, the 29th June, 1972, in the Assembly Chamber, with the Hon'ble Speaker in the Chair.

Mr. Speaker :- Let us start the business of the day by taking up unstarred questions.
 

UNSTARRED QUESTIONS

( To which replies were placed on the Table )

Block Development Office for the Dienglieng Constituency

Shri Besterson Kharkongor asked "

29. Will the Minister in-charge of Community Development, be pleased to state -

(a) Whether Government is aware that the Block Development office for the Dienglieng Constituency is stationed at Pynursla which is at distance of about 50 miles?
  (b) Whether Government is also aware that the people of that area have not been able to reap the benefit of the Community Development programme for this reason?
  (c) If so, whether Government propose to take up any Scheme to extend the benefit of the Community Development to these areas?

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Community Development)  replied :

29. (a) -Yes, Major portion of the areas constituting Dienglieng Constituency fall within Pynursla Development Block which has its headquarter at Pynursla. The distance of the Block Office from the farthest village is 15 (Fifteen) miles approximately by foot- path. 
  (b) -No. Distance of villages from Block Office does not deprive them of the benefit rendered by Community Development Block. 
  (c) -Development Schemes will be taken up and implemented according to priority with the approval of the Block Development Committee.

Shri B. Kharkongor (Dienglieng S.T.) :- When I read the reply to question No. 22 (b) I want to know whether the Government is aware that the people from my constituency have to cover a distance of 20 miles to come here.

Mr. Speaker :- The answer is that the Government calculate the distance through the foot- path. 

Shri Maham Singh (Mawprem) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in 29 (a) I want to know whether the Government is aware that during the summer the villagers of Dienglieng and Pynursla have to cross a big river which is impossible during the summer?

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Community Development) :- What river is it?

Shri Maham Singh :- Umsong River. 

Mr. Speaker :- The Government is aware. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem (Mynso- Raliang S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in 29 (c) is it a fact that no scheme has so far been implemented for these areas?

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Community Development) :- It is not a fact, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Shri Maham Singh :- Is the Government aware that it is easier for the people of Dienglieng to come to Smit rather than go to Pynursla?

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Community Development) :- Yes, it is easier for the people of Dienglieng to go to Smit than to go to Pynursla. 

Shri Maham Singh :- Does the Government propose to transfer the area?

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Community Development) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, that question is under study now.

Mr. Speaker :- Let us now come to Item No.2.


Miscellaneous

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna (Nongtalang S.T.) :- Before we come to item No.2, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to give an information.

Mr. Speaker :- No, you cannot give any information during question hour; rather you should seek information. 

Shri Enowell Pohshna :- But Sir, may we not speak?

Mr. Speaker :- You may, but this is not the last day.

Prof. Martin N. Majaw (Mawhati S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, since you have come to item No. 2 may I state only for half a minute that we are quite prepared on our side to be brief and I would earnestly request Government to shorten their replies and to specifically reply to the points.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Parliamentary Affairs) :- But Sir, if we do not reply properly many of the hon. Members will say " My point has not been replied". 

Mr. Speaker :- In fact, all the hon. Members must also understand that so far as the general discussion on the budget is concerned they must always take the advantage during the discussion on the budget. But during the voting on demands for grants they must at least know what particular grant they would like to come forward for a thorough discussion but each and every time, I think, hon. Members have taken undue advantage of the Chair.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, excuse me. We have submitted our cut motions prior to the reply of the Finance Minister to the general discussion on the budget and that is why, Sir, we do not know whether we should confine to any particular demand!

Mr. Speaker :- Yes, I understand, but the opinion expressed by the hon. Member from Mawhati is that most of you are willing to withdraw the cut motions so that there will be more time to discuss on important demands. 

        Now, which has already been moved yesterday, let us take up the cut motion on Grant No. 24. Is there any body to support the cut motion?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Parliamentary Affairs) :- While we are at it, may I draw the attention of the hon. Members of this House through you, Sir, to Rule 145 regarding cut motions. If I may read that "A motion may be moved to reduce the amount of a demand in any of the following ways :-

  (a) "that the amount of the demand be reduced to Re.1" representing disapproval of the policy underlying the demand. Such a motion shall be known as. "Disapproval of Policy Cut". A member giving notice of such a motion shall indicate in precise terms the particulars of the policy which he proposes to discuss. The discussion shall be confined to the specific point or points mentioned in the notice and it shall be opened to members to advocate an alternative policy".  

        Sir, here most of the cut motions are for raising a general discussion. But for raising the discussion it is laid down under Rule 143 in which the House can discuss any question of principle involved. Therefore, Sir, we have not raised the objection because of the shortness of time allotted for the discussions on the budget. However, I would like to draw the attention of the Members to the fact for the advantage of the Members concerned and of the Government as well that the cut motion should be confined only to specific matters or points and shall indicate in precise terms the particulars of the policy which a member proposes to discuss. All the replies will be to the points raised in the discussion. That is always done. In any case, in future I would suggest that any one who is moving the cut motion should also indicate according to this rule the specific policy he proposes to discuss. Then we would also be prepared on the Government side before we come to the House for discussion. 

Mr. Speaker :- I am aware of the rule as pointed out by the hon'ble Minister for Parliamentary Affairs but the practice has always been that the hon. Members will always point out the specific points at the time when they move the cut motion on the floor of the House. That has always been the practice and it is true that at the time when they raise the cut motion, most of the hon. Members forget that it is a 'Disapproval of Policy Cut" and, at the same time, I do not think that the Government do not know its own policy so far as Government policy is concerned. I am convinced that the Government know its policy or to suggest an alternative policy or to improve that policy. So, I invite any hon. Member who would like to support the cut motion moved by Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh to grant No. 24. '


VOTING ON DEMANDS FOR GRANTS

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, before supporting the cut motion I would like to say that in submitting our cut motions, our object is to raise a general discussion on the Grant. Sir, I would like to dwell only on two or three points regarding the policy of the Government on this particular Grant. This Government never cared to verify whether the Inspecting staff are vigilant or not about inspecting the schools in the rural areas. All the schools in the rural areas have not been inspected or visited even once in three years, and I would like to draw the attention of the Minister, through you, Sir, that he will please check the position how the inspecting staff have performed and executed their duties within the year and to see that, at least, each school will have two such inspections in a year. 

        Secondly, Mr. Speaker, Sir, it was learnt that there has been a peculiar occurrence in a particular school here in the town itself; and that school is the Khasi Pnar Academy where, it was learnt, that the Managing Committee has been dissolved since two years ago and for a stretch of two years' time, the school has been managed by an adhoc Managing Committee. Sir, it is an unpleasant unprecedented state of affairs. Therefore, it is high time for the Government to look into this matter and see that a regular Managing Committee is being constituted soon. Adding these few words, Sir, I would like also to stress the case of certain teachers who have been serving for so many years under direct appointment by the Government. They have been in service continuously for the last 15 to 20 years, but you will be surprised to learn, Sir, that they have not been confirmed in their posts, specially, those who are serving in the Basic Schools. It will be better late than never that the Government will now take up their case into consideration and their service be confirmed. With these few words, I resume my seat. 

*Shri D.D. Lapang (Nongpoh S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would also like to participate in this discussion. Sir, we find that the retiring age of the teachers in the Government Aided schools has been fixed at 60 years of age. But according to the Assam Education Rules (Rule 159) which lays down that no teacher shall be retired from teaching except on production of a medical certificate. May I suggest to the Government to extend this privilege to the teachers serving in the Government Aided Schools so that they can also proceed beyond 60 years on production of a physical fitness certificate from the registered doctor. Because the teachers in the Government Aided Schools are not having the same pay as the teachers serving in Government Schools. The teachers in the Government Aided Schools get only half of the pay that is paid to the teachers in the Government Schools. So, only half the amount of pay is being paid to the Aided school teachers and they do not have the benefit during the retirement like pension, gratuity- no pension, no gratuity nothing of the sort. So I would like to suggest to the Government to extend these special privileges to the teachers in the Government aided schools.

        Another thing is that we do not have any budget provision for the Inspector of Colleges. We do not know whether the Government feel necessary to have the inspector of Colleges after having our own University. May not Government entrust to the D.P.I. to appoint the Inspector of Colleges for the State. There is also no provision for the basis schools. In the Assam Government there is a Special Officer of Basic Education. But when we are having our own Education Department in our State we fail to see why the Government does not make any provision in the State level for this particular type of education. There is no provision also for the sports and games. Are we to take it that the Education Department does not see the values that the sports and games will bring to the students? I want to get a clarification why there is no provision under the State sector for principals and vice-principals of colleges. Of course there is some provision in the district level. We do not know whether all the principals and vice- principals fall under the Deputy Commissioners of the districts. There is also no provision for traveling allowances of the officers in the State level,  e.g.,  the D.P.I. and the Joint D.P.I., whether they should not go out on tour to attend to their educational activities? So, we want a clarification why such allowances were not provided. Whether it will not be acceptable to the Government to provide some funds for sending some of our youths to have training in journalism. This is a very important subject. Sir, we see in our State that most of the journalists are not our own people. I should suggest to the Government to give their attention to this part of the programme so that our future will be bright. 

*Prof. M.N. Majaw (Mawhati S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support the cut motion and in doing so I am bringing to the notice of the Government only two or three points. The first point is the non-payment of non-recurring grants to the deficit colleges, i.e., the colleges that are being run on the deficit system. As the Government knows this non-recurring grant of course it is recurring every year - is generally paid towards the fag end of the financial year. But when this financial year was coming to a close, the colleges expecting to receive the non- recurring grants went ahead and got involved themselves in certain expenditure. For example, the St. Anthony's College spent to the tune of more than 2 lakhs of rupees in expectation that non- recurring grant will be forthcoming. But this year, it is strange to say that not a single college run on deficit system ever received this non- recurring grant. The Government of Assam have informed that after the 21st of January, 1972 they are not going to pay the non- recurring grant to the deficit colleges. They said, let the Meghalaya Government look after them. 

        Another point which I would like to raise, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is about the scales of pay in aided colleges. It has been brought to my notice that although the aided colleges are not directly under the Government still something may be done in view of the fact that education is a State subject under the State Minister for Education. For example, there are colleges like the Union Christian College where the Principal gets a higher salary and other professors get a salary which is not in keeping with the their position and the work they are doing. Their increment is Rs.15 per year whereas under the deficit system the increment may be Rs.30 a year. Thirdly, Mr. Speaker, with regard to education I made an earnest appeal to the Government to remove that obnoxious rule not allowing the professors of aided colleges to file nomination papers for a particular election. That is a departmental rule inherited from the Assam Government. I feel that some modifications should be made in this rule by allowing those who have been defeated in the election or those wise persons who withdraw in time to return to the college within a month. As some of us know the rule is that those professors who are defeated or who withdrew cannot return to the college. Even if a professor is defeated or even if he withdrew, he cannot go back to the college. It is an injustice that even if they are allowed to return to the college, they have to begin afresh, to start their career from the basic pay. It is time that we introduce some change because the interests of the professors are affected. For example, in Maharashtra, they allow those who have been defeated and those who withdrew to return to their vocation after a month. And in West Bengal, those who stay in Calcutta are allowed to be M.L.As and also professors,  i.e.,  only those who stay in the same place where the Legislative Assembly is situated. These are the three points I will place before the Minister. 

*Shri P.N. Choudhury (Laban) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in our State, education is depending on some sort of experiment and there should be a definite policy for improving the standard of education I am glad to learn that the Government had already set up a Committee to look into the educational aspects and I hope this Committee will consider all the aspects of educational system in the State and remove the causes of the plague on education. The improvement in the standard of education in our State much depends on the teachers who teach in the schools. But Sir, the conditions of the teaching staff mainly in the Primary Schools are very bad and their emoluments are not commensurate with the cost of living; they do not get their meagre salary regularly and there are cases where their salary is paid even after a lapse of six months. So, Sir, may request to the Government is to see that the salary of these poorly paid teachers is paid monthly instead of paying after an interval of 4, 5 or 6 months. 

        Coming to secondary education, we have seen that there are three categories of schools tone is the Government School, another is the schools run by Christian Missionaries and the last is private school, while the teachers in these schools have the same nature of education and the same nature of lesson. But Sir, unfortunately, as far as their emolument is concerned, it is different from school to school and there are great disparities, and due to that, there is discontentment amongst the teachers and with the discontented teachers, we cannot expect better education. So Sir, I would suggest that these disparities between the scale of pay of teachers of the same standard of qualification should be removed as soon as possible. Teachers should get leave facilities which are being extended to the Government servants and other facilities should be extended to them along with other benefit. The time of their retirement should be fixed at the age of 60 and something should be provided for the teachers who will go without anything. What will be the position in their old age one can very well imagine. Therefore, I would suggest to the Government that there should be uniform scale of pay, and, if necessary, the Government should take over all the schools if not immediately, stage by stage, and give the teachers better wages, better amenities so that the standard of education can also be improved. 

Shri Edward Kurbah (Sohiong S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to make some observations with regard to education especially in the rural areas. I do not know whether the Government is taking any interest at all in respect of schools in the rural areas. One Basic Training Centre has already been constructed at Sohiong which is within my constituency. The people there told me that unless the Government takes interest in improving that Centre which was established at that place, the land allotted by the local people for the purpose will be taken back by the people. So I would like to request the Government to take more interest for improving the building meant for Basic Training Centre at Sohiong otherwise it will be of no use to set up such a Training Centre there. If the Government takes initiative to run it properly, I believe it will be of great benefit not only to those local people there, but also to other people who are living in the Khasi Hills especially those teachers who are going to get themselves trained. This Training Centre will cater to the needs for training of those teachers in general and therefore, I once again request the Government to take keen interest in this matter. I would also like that the Minister in-charge of Education should make clarification whether this building is going to be completed for proper functioning of the Training Centre.

        Another point, Sir, I would like to raise in this House is this: You see in the rural areas there are many schools run by different agencies by the District Councils and by the Missions for a long time, but they are not run or managed properly due to lack of financial assistance. So I would like that the Government should take interest in the schools which exist in the rural areas. Another point I would like to suggest to the Government, if possible, is that more M.E. Schools should be opened in the rural areas. For example, in my area there are only three or four M.E. Schools. So I would request the Government if it is possible to open one more M.E. Schools in the rural area in my constituency,  i.e., at Mawpun.

Mr. Speaker :- This should have been discussed in the general discussion on the Budget and not in the Cut Motion. You must confine within policy of the Government. 

Shri Edward Kurbah :- Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to get a clarification from the Minister in-charge whether the Government is willing or not to open more M.E. Schools in the rural areas?

Shri Maham Singh (Mawprem) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will take only half a minute and I want to raise only one point and that is that there is always indifference on the part of the Government to improve its own institutions like the Government High Schools and Hostel. Then again there is not a single Government College in the capital of the State of Meghalaya. (Voices : there is no Government College or what College). 

Mr. Speaker :- He said there is not a single Government College in the Capital of the State. 

Shri Maham Singh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, none of the Ministers send their children to their own institutions and I also do not send my child to our own institutions because the standard of education imparted in these schools is very very poor.  

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw (Mawhati S.T.) :- Shame! Shame!

Shri Maham Singh (Mawprem) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think it is a great shame on the part of the Government to say that our educational institutions are the worst in the State. Now, most probably many hon. Members here in this House got their education in the Government High School. Yes it is more then 20 years ago the site of the area of the school was alright and the standard of education imparted in that school was good, but now the standard of education imparted in this school has fallen and the site and building has become congested. The Government would say that they have taken over this institution very recently. My appeal is that since they have now taken over this institution, they should take care of their own institutions and see that the standard of education imparted in Government High School will be the best available. 

Shri Jormanick Syiem (Mylliem S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, while welcoming the observation made by the Members of the Opposition, the matter like reorientation of education and improvement of the lost of primary school teachers, although most of them are private and some of them are under the District Councils, I would like to say that our Government and also the Central Government are pledged to fight the three evils, poverty, ignorance and disease and education is one of the weapons to combat these evils. Some observations have been made about the Basic education and also the need for technical education in the rural areas. I think it is very in correct to say that basic education in itself is so bad if we have properly understood the concept, but I think these basic schools should be established in some selected centres. We find that pupils coming form Basic Schools are better equipped than those who come from ordinary primary schools. They have also learned the dignity of labour; they also have to use there hands and things like that for the benefit of education as it is meant for them. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to say that basic education should be established not in the towns, but in those areas where there are people who are willing to learn some trade and also technical education and vocational education is necessary in order to reduce unemployment. The people who go for general education, generally end up in unemployment. Therefore, I would appeal. to the Government to consider how best the amount that has been allotted in this budget should also be utilised for giving technical training to the people in the rural areas as also in the town areas so that they can be more useful to the society.

        Now, primary education, as we have heard, is being run mostly by the private organisations like religious and social organisations but the salary that is paid to these teachers by these organisations is very low. It is not commensurate with the amount of work that they are expected to do, I do not know how far Government can help out the teachers appointed by these organisations but what we really need is that teachers should not be paid with such a low salary that they are not in position to make both ends meet. I have also (Bell Rang). May I have a little more time, Sir; I am interested in this subject? (Laughter). There are some institutions and even Government Schools in town like Pine mount School, where the teachers do not know where they stand. Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is no provident fund and other benefit like pension, etc. I think Government should take some steps to see how the teachers in this school will feel secure in their services. Then I come to technical education.

Mr. Speaker :- That is in the next grant.

Shri Jormanic Syiem :- So, I appeal to the Government to look to the interest of the teachers in the lower primary schools also, although it is the responsibility of the District Council, but the District Council, with their meagre resources, will not be able to help much. It is for the Government now to come forward and see what they can help to ameliorate the position of the poor teachers in the lower primary schools.

Mr. Speaker :- How can Government do that when the primary schools are directly under the District Council?

Shri Jormanick Syiem (Mylliem S.T.) :- Government can do so through the District Councils or directly through the organisations which run the schools. 

Mr. Speaker :- No primary school is under the Government.

Shri Jormanick Syiem :- But there are some adhoc grants which are given to the District Councils. 

Mr. Speaker :- It appears that you are suggesting an alternative policy to the Government!

Shri Jormanick Syiem :- Anyway, that is the complaint all around the State. How best we can help the poor teachers because they are in a very difficult position. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with these few observations, I oppose the cut-motion.

Mr. Speaker :- There are many who want to speak from this side?. (Many hon. Members rose in their seats).

Mr. Speaker :- The hon. Members who have submitted a cut motion, have the right to speak. And the other hon. Members have also the right to speak. If you want to continue, we will continue this discussion till 5 p.m. 

Shri K.M. Roy Marbaniang (Mawsynram S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose the Cut Motion, especially when it was moved by some of the Members in the Opposition side. 

( Loud laughter)

         I feel, Sir, that we should open more Middle English Schools in the rural areas. I have seen many Middle English Schools especially in my village where 40 to 50 houses have got only one school. I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that the education department be given specific guidelines why such schools were not recognised or given a permission. When the M.E. Schools would be opened, they must be thoroughly examined to see what is the capacity of the villages surrounding the schools and the primary schools also to be opened in any particular area. In this regard, the Government should give the guideline not to permit such school for construction in such places. With these few words I resume my seat. 

*Shri S.D. Khongwir (Mawlai S.T.) :- I rise to support the Cut Motion. Sir, in the schools and colleges we have seen there has developed a sense of differences and generally Sir, the policy of the Government in so far as the Government of Meghalaya is concerned is that they allowed these differences to stagnate. The Government should take keen interest not to allow these differences to develop wherever there is a difference between the Principal and the staff or between the staff and the member of the Governing body. In this connection, I think the Government should give the highest priority in dealing with these differences because if the Government do not come to the rescue and cause necessary enquiries and if the Government allow these differences in the schools and colleges to stagnate it will only deteriorate the standard of the entire educational institutions. Sir, I would like to refer to one case, for instance, there is a case with regard to the Commerce College. The members of the staff of that particular college have already represented to the Government against the Principal and most probably against the Governing body itself. And the present situation of that particular college is as I heard, that the President and the Secretary of the Governing Body have tendered their resignation. So there is a lot of differences in the entire situation of that particular college which is going to be of utter confusion. 

        Another point is with regard to the Shillong College. The term of office of the Governing Body in the Shillong College should have expired. But the Government instead of reconstituting a new Governing Body, has extended the life of the Governing Body. Sir, I would only like to point out these few facts with regard to the differences that may arise in any particular educational institution. With these few words, I resume my seat.  

Shri D.N. Joshi (Shillong Cantonment) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, while supporting the Cut motion on this Grant, I have a few observations to make regarding the primary education and also educational institutions in our State. 

Mr. Speaker :- I would request you to sit down unless you confine yourself to the particular discussion. If you direct your speech only the the co-ordination of the Institutions in Shillong, I would request you again to sit down because you cannot discuss about the co-ordination between the Government and the District Councils during the Cut motion. There are also so many grievances against the management by the Government.

Shri D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I shall speak about the primary education in Shillong. Since the inception of Meghalaya as a full-fledged State the primary education has come ever to this State from the Government of Assam. And the important point which I would impress upon the Government now is that in Shillong teachers of different primary institutions have not yet received grants that are meant for the year ending 31st March, 1972. I would like to request the Government through you, Sir, that the authorities should look into this matter urgently that payment should be made to these poor teachers due here in Shillong. Also many primary schools have not yet been given recognition. Sometimes those schools which have been recognised have got only one teacher to run five classes. These primary schools should have at least five teachers meant for the five classes. So under the present state of affairs our students cannot have proper education. They should be looked after properly and thoroughly.

        Now, Sir, in regard to these schools and colleges here in Shillong, I must touch something regarding the Nepali language in the colleges in Shillong. Save and accept the St. Anthony's college, in other colleges there are Professors of Economics and the Head of the department of Commerce are manning the Nepali section while there are competent and qualified Nepali young man who are unemployed and I wonder why these colleges or those Departments should be manned by professor belonging to other departments or faculties. So, Sir, I hope these anomalies must be done away with. 

        Now, Sir, as regards the inspection of schools, in Shillong - since 1948 I have seen that the D.I. of schools who is in-charge of Khasi Hills has got only 3 staff to run the works in the office. How can these people manage to carry out the onerous task of looking after so many M.E. and primary schools. I think, Sir, the strength should be increased. The D.I. of schools, Shillong has been representing to the Government since 1948 to increase the staff but nothing has been done to meet the problem and the needs of these schools. At that time these schools were under the supervision of the Government of Assam but now, since, we have got our own popular Government I would suggest, Sir, that something should be done to increase the staff so that they can do full justice to the schools in the district. The number of inspecting staff also should increased so that inspection could be made at least once in a year. Otherwise I am afraid inspections, under these circumstances cannot be taken up even once in 3 or 4 years. 

( Bell rang) 

        A few more minutes Mr. Speaker, Sir. In Jowai it is learnt that the office of the Additional Deputy Inspector of schools run by a Sub-Inspector of schools since September last. But here, since we have got a stable Government. I think proper action should be taken immediately to strengthen the staffing pattern of the Deputy Inspector of schools so that inspection could reach the villages also at least 2 or 3 times in a year. I believe, the Government is going to prepare educations maps. These instructions have been given to the D.P.I. Meghalaya by the Education Secretariat for making provisions for one primary schools within the radius of 3 miles and one M.E. Schools within the radius of 4 miles. The area should be one mile and 2 miles respectively so that we do not unnecessarily subject our small children to walks 3 or 4 miles to go to schools and the teachers there should be qualified and adequately paid. 

Mr. Speaker :- This idea of Mr. Joshi has got certain drawbacks. The question of setting up these primary or M.E. schools does not rise in those places where there is already one of such schools. Only in such places about 3 or 4 miles far off from those schools should have to be given consideration. But here such distance of 3 or 4 miles should be made reduced to 2 miles or so in the rural and urban areas. 

Shri D.N. Joshi :- Now we must start implementation of the provision in the condition for the medium of instruction as it was done in Assam. 

Mr. Speaker :- I want the hon. Member not to cast any reflection on the language of other States. 

Shri D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, now I would like to come to the Pay scale of teachers. 

        They are the most respectful class of the society and the Government has committed to raise their standard of living and their social status. 

Mr. Speaker :- Mr. Joshi, this is not the economic discussion and so I request you to take your seat.

Shri D.N. Joshi :- Thank you, Sir.

Mr. Speaker :- Now I call upon Shri Mylliemngap.

Shri G. Mylliemngap (Sohryngkham S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to support the cut motion on education. The educational policy which we have inherited from the Assam Government seems to be completely in a mess. Now I have noticed that - of course Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very fond of mushroom there are quite a number of mushroom. M.E. Schools and mushroom High Schools in places where there is no justification at all. If you go, Mr. Speaker, Sir, from Shillong to Cherra road in a distance of about 2 miles you will find 4 High Schools there are sometimes you will find in certain villages 2 M.E. Schools or Proceeding M.E. Schools. These are all mushroom schools and most of these schools or institutions were established on political grounds. But somehow or rather all these schools institutions could manage to get grants or some financial help from the Government. Actually this is not an encouraging State of affairs especially as it is at present. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to suggest to the Government, through you, Sir, to frame a rigid policy to be rigidly followed that before an M.E. School or High School is to be open the feasibility of establishment of such schools should be properly surveyed so that these mushroom schools will not find place and we will not spend our money; I mean the State money unnecessarily by giving grants in this way or that way which hampers the interest of education as whole and also the interest of students. Besides that, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have preached for reorientation of our educational system and in this connection I would also like to bring out one thing. If we are going to reorient the educational systems, we should also have to look after the interest of those teachers, I mean the dedicated teachers who have spent most of their like time in some of the aided schools. I would like to request the Government to see that these people get due recognition of their service by giving them chance, if medically declared fit, to continue their services even after the age of 60 years. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with these few observations I support the Cut Motion. 

*Shri Blooming Shallam (Jowai S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stood time and again but I was not given the chance to speak. 

Mr. Speaker :- May be I would not see because you are short.

Shri Blooming Shallam :- Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am short and I think I should take some improved diet that will help me to become a bit tall (laughter). Mr. Speaker, Sir, many hon. Members have spoken on the subject of education and I would also like to speak a few words to seek clarification about the policy in so far as it relates to Jowai Government College. The Jowai Government College, as we all know, has been established in Jowai a number of years. But uptil now this college is being run in a hired house- a residential house which is so inconvenient to the students. Moreover, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we also know that a land has been purchased for construction of college buildings. But uptil now nothing has been done. I would also like to have clarification form the Government whether it is the policy of the Government to continue this college only in Arts Classes whereas the majority of our students in Jaintia Hills would like to join Science and Commerce Classes and the Principal of the College itself is a Master of Science. 

        Another point, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to raise is that there has been a long felt need in Jaintia Hills to have Girl's High School whereas at present boys and girls are jumbled together for their education and also there is a long felt need for construction of girls' hostel at Jowai. At present a large number of girl students are coming from far and wide and from the interior places of Jaintia Hills and they have no accommodation. They have to stay with their friends and relatives which is not to their convenience. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to request the Government, through you, to see and consider construction of girl's hostel and establishment of girl's high school for Jaintia Hills so as to meet the crying need of the people there. Another point, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want raise is that scholarships have been awarded to students, but I understand, that in the year 1970-71 the really deserving hostellers were not given the scholarship. Whereas those students who stay or live in their own homes at Jowai were given scholarship. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to ventilate their grievances and to suggest to the Government to make an enquiry and examine this matter and to see if there is any person who is responsible for this, he should be punished. 

Mr. Speaker :- Scholarship is being given to everybody, Mr. Shallam if you know about this thing, you should have reported it to the Government rather than bring it on the floor of the House. 

Shri Blooming Shallam :- Thank you, Sir. Another point I would like to say is with regard to grants for Primary Schools given by the District Council for running the administration of the primary schools.

Mr. Speaker :- Are you not the Executive Member of the Jowai District Council in charge of Education?

Shri Blooming Shallam :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not but the joint responsibility is there. So, I would like to request the Government to see that adequate fund is provided to the District Councils. The other day the hon. Member from Sutnga Constituency has spoken about teachers and about the poor supply of furniture like benches etc. to the primary schools. I agree that we could not do much as we are not having adequate funds and whatever fund is provided we get, we have utilised it properly. 

Mr. Speaker :- Mr. Shallam, this thing you have brought during the general discussion of the Budget and the Government cannot give at this stage the information asked for. 

Shri Blooming Shallam :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like that the Government will take into consideration for removal of this problem. We have got a number of primary schools with a very limited number of teachers. There is a crying need to equip these primary schools with sufficient number of teachers. It is true that in some primary schools there is only one teacher right from Class A, B, to Class III. 

Mr. Speaker :- Has the District Council also made some attempt to raise funds?

Shri B.B. Shallam :- We did, certainly. Sir, we found that without adequate funds, it is very difficult to run the schools. As education is a hinge for all-round development, and if it has only one teacher for 4 or 5 classes, I do not know how they can run that school. Sir, when we ask for funds, we are given the fund but it is inadequate. So Government is to see that adequate fund is provided. My humble submission to the Government is to see that this problem is solved.

Mr. Speaker :- Are you supporting the Cut Motion?

Shri B.B. Shallam :- No, Sir, I am only discussing this matter and I, of course, oppose the Cut Motion. With these few observations I have in mind. 

Shri P.R. Kyndiah (Jaiaw S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to oppose the Cut Motion on the very fact that next to the P.W.D., Education Department has got the highest and largest share of Rs.2,64,90,000 which means that the Government attaches much importance to this important item. The policy of the Government has been clearly laid down and that has been said by Minister of State for Education, Shri Pugh, which goes to show that Government is fully aware of the various anomalies and defects that exist in the present structure of education, and is also aware that there is a need for reorientation of the system of education so that it will be working properly. This is a very important policy statement which I think, must get the support of all thinking people of the State. Secondly, the other point which I think fully appreciate is that the Minister of Education has emphasised on the need and improvement of education on the primary base. So I feel that on these two points alone we should not really oppose the Grant which is Rs.2,64,90,000. But on this, I would like to make certain observations. I attach much importance to another Branch of Education, that is National Cadet Corps. Yesterday, Sir, we were discussing this subject in the House while you were not present, Sir, and it is a very interesting discussion when we are discussing about the need to attract our local boys and girls to the Police Force or to the Military Service and we found that there is certain Psychological bias which exist in the mind of the people. They are allergic to join on these services. Now, Sir, N.C.C. is a very important aspect of Education, not only that, it gives discipline to the mind and body and makes it fit and smart, but I think it also gives them a taste of National integration which is very very important. Apart from that, the N.C.C. gives them a little more than what the ordinary students get. I have come across certain boys who appeared before the interview for jobs and I can say without any hesitation, that the girls and boy who have had N.C.C. education are very much better of and their response to the questions was very intelligent and they behave very well, they look to be better citizens. Therefore, I feel that the Government should take more interest in the subject of N.C.C. with a view to bring about this bias of Education in the State. I have seen in the Budget for the year 1970-71 that the amount is only 70,000 while in 1972-73, the amount has gone to Rs.4,34,000. This is a very good sign indeed. I would only suggest to the Minister of State for Education to take necessary steps to see that all boys and girls get this training to the best minimum possible. I feel that we should encourage the N.C.C. training.

        The other matter which I would like to bring before the House is regarding the promotion of Hindi. Hindi is the official language of the Union. Knowing Hindi means opening up avenues for more social intercourse and more opportunities and more so, to bring in line with what the Leader of the House has said yesterday that when we got the State, it is not so much of the hard work that we put in but of the good will that existed in the minds of the leaders of the country and the public opinion. Now, Hindi is a very important language in India today and I think we should attach importance to Hindi Education, not only to boys and girls, but I think if possible, we should have a Hindi class for the M.L.As. When we speak Hindi here, it is really very funny. As Mr. Sangma, our Chief Minister, used to make a joke about what our women here are speaking Hindi in bazaar. I remember that one woman while giving a dinner she said in Hindi "khaw khaw sarom bi naihai".

(laughter)

        This shows that we are very poor in Hindi language and promotion of Hindi language is very important. I have seen in the Budget provision that in 1970-71 it was Rs.40,870 but now it is Rs.67,000. I feel that this amount can be augmented by way of Supplementary demand of re-appropriation. 

        I would like to bring another point. In so far as Government Colleges or Private College in the State of ours are concerned, it is my considered opinion that when we have good colleges run by private institutions or Missionaries we should maintain the statusquo. The only effect is that Government is to give grants and opportunity and to see that these colleges are improved. We should not stand on a false prestige. It does not matter whether it is St. Edmunds or St. Mary's. It is for the Government to see that they are functioning well and producing talents and good students. This is more important.

        The other point I should like to make. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as Mr. B.B. Shallam has mentioned, is about the need of having Commerce College or Commerce subject to be introduced. Here we have only one Commerce College in the whole of Meghalaya. This College will impart training to the students in accountancy.

Mr. Speaker :- It think there are colleges; even if it is Commerce College, it has got Arts also. 

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- In any case, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I feel that Commerce College is very important, and keeping in view the alertness of the Government, I oppose the Cut Motion.

Prof. A. Warjri (Mawkhar S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, while opposing the cut motion, I would like to make a few observations. Regarding re-orientation of schools, I think we should try to do it right from the primary schools. Although primary schools come under the management of the District Councils, yet I would like to say a few words here since Government is also connected in the matter of giving money to the District Councils, and also to see that the money is property used. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have been traveling to some villages in the State and I find that some of these primary schools are not function at all. I would like to suggest to the Government to see that these schools are inspected or rather to see that these schools are properly functioning.

        Regarding M.E. Schools and High Schools, I think, there should be a completed reorientation, especially in the method of teaching, as some of the hon. Members had already said. 

Mr. Speaker :- If there is no reorientation programme right from the bottom how can you start from the M.E. or High Schools? And so far co-ordination between the Government and the District Councils, I do not bar. 

Prof. A. Warjri :- I would say that primary schools are like nurseries where flowers are being raised and as such we should take care to see that they are properly run. For example, during these months I do not know how many primary school teachers were given a chance to attend the seminar which has been conducted here in Shillong, bringing complete change in the teaching of of arithmetic for small children. I do not also know how many of our primary school teachers can give particular attention to these schools. I would suggest that our boys and girls should have a strong foundation right from the beginning especially in mathematics because if they do not have strong foundation from the beginning, it will be difficult for them to continue that subject in higher classes. That is why only a few of our boys and girls take up mathematics or science in higher classes. On the Middle and High Schools I would suggest that there should be a complete reorientation especially in the choice of subjects. In many of our schools we find that boys and girls are being coached like parrots and therefore they could not come forward in practical sense. We should therefore try to make their studies practical. In this connection, Sir, I would suggest that something should be devised by the Government so that the present system of education should be changed. 

( Bell rang)

        Give me a few minutes more, Sir, as I have something to say.

Mr. Speaker :- I will give you only one minute. 

Prof. A. Warjri :- Before I finish this point, I would say that in order to have good schools, we must have good teachers, and if we are to have good teachers we must give them a good pay. On this we find that the pay of the teachers, especially in the primate schools is really very low, and it is very much lower than that of the Government schools. But if we compare the results of success, we find that private schools' results are far better than the Government schools. Therefore, I would suggest that these people should not be deprived of the benefits the Government school teachers are enjoying and, as such, the Government should appoint a Committee for the fixation of pay for the Government Aided School Teachers. 

        Coming to Colleges, Mr. Speaker, Sir, first of all I would like to mention, as one hon. Member has said regarding the question of Professors, that after they have been elected as M.L.As. or when they failed to win in the elections.

Mr. Speaker :- Professor. Majaw has already touched that point. 

Prof. A. Warjri :- But I would like to add another point, Sir, for the fact that in Calcutta professors teaching in colleges on having elected as M.L.As. are allowed to continue teaching also at the same time. I wonder why there is a bar here in our State. if lawyers are allowed to practice their professions, in spite of the fact that they are M.L.As, I do not understand why private college professor cannot be allowed to continue with their teaching jobs also. I would also suggest that various amenities should be provided to the teachers, colleges teachers like winder allowance. Another thing I would like to mention is regarding taking over of the schools by the Government. It is here that I oppose the cut motion and I quite agree that there should not be mushroom growth of middle schools. Let the present middle schools be allowed to improve themselves. Secondly, Sir, it is about Government Colleges also. Here if we see to the results that have been performed by the existing Colleges in the State, I do not think that there is need for opening of Government Colleges at present, and with these few words, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I resume my seat. 

Mr. Speaker :- I now request the Minister of State, Education to reply.

Shri D.D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, yesterday while moving the cut motion, the hon. Member, Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh, expressed his surprise and said that even after the creation of the full-fledged State, he has seen no change in the system of education and also wanted to know why a provision had been made in the budget for primary education when primary education falls within the District Council. In this respect, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to draw the attention of the hon. Member to the fact that with the creation of the Hill State of Meghalaya,  or the attainment of a full- fledged State has not changed the constitutional provisions under which the Khasi Hills District Council jurisdiction over the primary education as well as other things is limited and in this respect I would like to draw his attention to the proviso of paragraph 20. While deliberating on this point I got the impression that the hon. mover had hinted that the Primary Schools in Shillong Municipality areas or Cantonment areas be brought under the District Council. Now, in this respect Mr. Speaker, Sir, subject to the correction, I would like to state that another hon. Member Mr. Nongtdu has proposed to bring to this House a resolution suggesting that the State Government take over all the managements of Primary Schools in the entire State and has also stated that he is not satisfied with the manner in which the Lower Primary Schools are being run by the District Council. I do not subscribe to the idea put forward by the hon. Member, Mr. Nongtdu nor Mr. Speaker, Sir, do I consider this as the appropriate time to indulge for raising a discussion on this point in the House. But I would certainly like to take this opportunity to point out that whereas the mover has suggested that the State Government take over the control of the Lower Primary Schools which are in the Municipality areas and Cantonment areas of Shillong one of his colleagues belonging not only to the other side of the House but who belongs to the same party has suggested just the opposite. Now as stated earlier Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. mover wanted to know why the Government considers it necessary to make the budgetary provision for the primary education. The answer is that this provision, this amount and this allocation is necessary in respect of the 50 and some odd schools which are located in Shillong Municipality areas and Cantonment areas and which fall outside the jurisdiction of the District Council. Then again, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Mover has stated that there is no proper management in three High Schools which have Hindi or Urdu as medium of instruction and in reply to this, I would only like to bring to the notice of the House that one of such Schools is the Islamia High School. This particular School has been inspected by no less an officer than the Inspector himself, and, as a result of that inspection, it was found that the incumbent who was the then Secretary of the Managing Committee has misappropriated some money which belonged to the School. Therefore this particular incumbent has been removed and now a new Secretary has been appointed in his place. The second School is the Anupchand Hindi High School. I am informed that the D.P.I. of our State has already ordered an inspection and I hope the Inspector of Schools will undertake the inspection very soon. In respect of the third School I regret I have to say that Government is not aware of any management in that School. Thirdly, the hon. mover had advocated about the pension benefits for the Teachers serving in aided High Schools. Subsequently several Members who have supported the motion have also voiced their support to Mr. H. Lyngdoh on this point. On this advocation of pension benefits to teachers serving in aided High Schools, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to point out that the position is that these teachers serving in the aided High Schools, that means those who are aided, are allowed according to Rules to serve upto the age of 60 years whereas the teachers in the full-fledged Government Schools are allowed under rules only up the age of 55 years which means that the teacher serving in the aided Schools have a tenure of service five years more than that of the teachers in the Government Schools. Now during these five years these teachers in the aided High Schools or M.E. Schools receive approximately Rs.30,000 as pay on the average. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, Sir, each teacher serving in the aided High School get a part of certain percentage of salary to be deposited in the provident fund. The Government also contributes to this fund. Now Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hope all of us realise the full impact and full implication of this point. I would also like to state that generally the present age for entry in service for the teachers is 25 years and they are allowed to continue in service upto the age of 60 years, that means they will be in service for 35 long years. Out of these 35 years for the first two years they will have to serve provisionally. That means they will be in service for 33 years in the confirmed post. During the 33 years of his service the Government by way of merging towards the contributory deposit is Rs.13,000. The provident fund and the compound interest on this Rs.13,000 comes to Rs.14,000 so that from Contributory Provident Fund the teachers serving in Aided schools will get rupees 27,000 added to it 13,000 extra that he has earned during 5 years of extra services; he has the benefit to to the tune of Rs.50,000. Whereas, in the Government schools, on the average, a teacher will receive about Rs.21,000 as pension. Over and above that, he will be entitled to Death-cum-Retirement Gratuity which comes to 6,500 rupees per person bringing the total to 27,500 rupees. I have stated these in order to inform the House about the monetary advantages that a teacher serving in Aided schools gets. 

        (4) The hon. Member who moved the cut motion also stated that the District Councils, the various District Councils cannot manage to run the huge numbers of schools under their jurisdiction with the meagre resources at their disposal. In reply to this point, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would only state that each year the State Government provides necessary grants to each and every District Council to retain the teachers already in service. Moreover, the State Government also sanctions grants to the District Councils for the expansion of primary education which means the employment of additional teachers either in the newly opened schools or in the L.P. schools which are already in existence. 

        (5) Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. mover lamented and said that the basic schools were not making any progress and one of the reasons, he stated, for this state of affairs in respect of the basis schools is that the schools have not been inspected as frequently and properly as they should have been. To this I would only say that the junior basic schools which also fall within the jurisdiction of the District Council are inspected or at least should be inspected and they are expected to be inspected by the inspecting staff at the disposal of the District Council and the senior basic schools in previous year, Mr. Speaker, Sir, their inspecting officer was then designated as Supervisor. Unfortunately, the post of the Supervisor has recently been done away with. I presumed, the people on the helm of affairs connected with the basic education in the composite State of Assam were not convinced of the financial justification of retaining the post of Supervisor for the limited number of senior basic schools now in existence in the State of Meghalaya. Nevertheless it does not mean, I do not mean to say that because the post of Supervisor has been done away with, these schools should go uninspected. The fact is that the officers under the Inspector of Schools are expected to inspect the senior basic schools.

Shri H. Hadem (Mynso-Raliang S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker :- You should not interrupt while the Minister is replying. 

Shri D.D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was just saying that it is not my intention to say that the senior basic schools in the State should go uninspected but the fact is that these schools just as any other M.E. schools are expected to be inspected by the officers serving under the Inspector of Schools in the various Districts. Also I would like to say that, in fact, the Principal of the Lady Reid Basic Training Centre located here in Shillong, has during the past 10 or 12 years, very often given the impression to each and every person whoever had gone to see and meet her that it was her business to inspect and cause these schools to be inspected. 

        Supporting the cut motion, the hon. Member, Shri D.D. Lapang, has made a plea on behalf of the teachers serving in the Aided Schools and has suggested that the tenure of service be extended on the strength of a Medical Certificate even beyond the age of sixty years. This, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is a suggestion that the Government has taken note of and shall be examined and considered. It has also been suggested by some hon. Members that an Inspector for Colleges be appointed. This is something that the Government has been considering for some time now. In fact, I have already asked the Department to study the financial justification for the creation of these posts. It has also been suggested that scholarships be accorded to enable our young boys and girls to proceed for training in Journalism. The Government is fully aware that here is a suggestion that needs be considered. The Government is fully aware that we have not, in the short span of life, been able to provide each and every scholarship that is necessary.

        ( At this stage the Speaker left the Chamber and the Deputy Speaker took the Chair)

        But at the same time, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, through you, I would entreat upon the hon. Members in this House, whether sitting on this side or the other, to realise that the dirty linen that we have inherited from the erstwhile composite State of Assam just cannot be washed overnight. Of course, the Government is fully aware of the deficiencies that have been correctly pointed out, and these will be taken care of in due course. 

        Now another hon. Member of this House, probably Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw, has complained that the non-recurring grant which is actually recurring in nature given for the Colleges, has not been paid. I am very sorry to say that I am not aware of this fact. In any case, if any College has not received its grant in due course, I would have expected the authorities of that College to have approached the Government and to find out the reasons why the grants had not been paid. Prof. Majaw and also, I think, Professor Warjri have suggested that College Teachers, lecturers and professors serving in aided Colleges who seek election at the various elections should not be victimised. In case they could not contest because their nomination papers got rejected or they withdraw, they should not be penalised for 18 months they should be allowed to re-enter service with a much shorter time. On this point I would also like to inform the House that the representatives of the Association of College Teachers in Meghalaya have quite some time submitted a very lengthy, a very comprehensive memorandum and in that memorandum, addressed to the Chief Minister, the Association has also raised this point. Ever since we received the memorandum, this point has been receiving the consideration of the Government. The representatives of the College Teachers' Association will be calling upon the Chief Minister on the 1st of July and I hope that at that interview something more tangible, something more concrete, will evolve on this point. Then the hon. Member from Laban, Mr. Choudhury, in supporting the cut motion, the moment he stood up, stated that he was not at all happy with the state of affairs in Meghalaya in respect of Education. He said that there seemed to be a total lack of definite educational policy but, very strangely, he himself had the occasion to state, by way of a reminder, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that the Government have already taken steps and have already appointed an Education Commission to go into this very point raised by him. Then Sir, several hon. Members have also advocated that the Government should consider the (At this stage, the Deputy Speaker vacated the chair for the Speaker) necessity of improving the lot of the Primary Schools Teachers by considering elevation of their pay. Now on this point, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to make just one or two  points. Firstly, most of the Primary Schools fall within the jurisdiction of the District Council excepting for the 50 and some odd schools that I mentioned earlier and, therefore, I would have expected that the initiative in this matter should be taken by the District Council, of course, in consultation with the State Government. Then, secondly, I may, just by way of reminder, also state that during the past few days the Chief Minister had already had the occasion to say that the Government will, at the appropriate time, consider the appointment or constitution of the Pay Commission to go into the salary structure of the people serving in various Departments and at various levels.

Mr. Speaker :- No, but the appointment of a Commission to go into the pay structure of the teachers in the aided schools was suggested by some Members. 

Mr. D.D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) :- So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was about to say if and when the Pay Commission is appointed I expect that the Commission will also go into the pay structure of the teachers serving in primary schools and I am sure that this task has been undertaken by each and every pay Commission appointed in the past by the various State Governments. At the same time, I would be failing in my duty if I do not also remind this august House of the fact that our Chief Minister, while making a statement, had also taken care to state that it would be futile to appoint the Pay Commission without first taking into consideration the ways and means at the disposal of the Government because no good purpose will be served if the Pay Commission's recommendations are brought to the Government and, at that stage, the Government find that it is not in a position to implement those recommendations. 

        The hon. Member, Mr. Kurbah, had made a reference to the fact that the building constructed for Basic Training Centre at Sohiong was still lying unoccupied and unused. On this point, I would like to inform the hon. Member that primarily, it is the duty and the responsibility of the Principal of the Basic Training Centre now located at Malki to report to the Government whether or not she is satisfied whether the building or a number of the buildings is/are ready for actual use. 

Mr. Speaker :- It seems that you have not received the report.

Shri D.D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) :- No, Sir, this report has not been received till date. Then the hon. Member, Shri Maham Singh, had made a suggestion that a Government College be started here in Shillong. On this point, I would like to mention that the Government is of the opinion that the number of existing colleges in Shillong, to the best of our knowledge and information, is quite adequate. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, Sir, speaking on this point, I would also like to take this opportunity to express my gratitude to the hon. member from Jaiaw, Mr. P.R. Kyndiah who, during his speech, had very clearly and lucidly explained the stand of the Government and, in the interest of brevity, I shall not repeat that argument. Then, Sir, Mr. Maham Singh, had also suggested that the Shillong Government High School be shifted to a different site. I am indeed very happy to be able to report that the Government is taking steps and, in fact, the officers of the Department have been asked to examine the possibility of acquiring land which now falls under the Oxford Mission at Kench's Trace and also the Baruah Estate. So, Sir, it is not that the Government is now aware of the need to shift the Shillong Government High Schools from its present location. But negotiation for land, sites, etc., is a time-consuming act. Then another hon. Member had voiced a complaint against the management of the Commerce College here in Shillong and stated that a complaint had already been lodged with the Government. It is a fact, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that the Government has received a complaint against the management of the Commerce College and here also I am very happy to be able to state that both the Secretary and the D.P.I. took very prompt action. The D.P.I. himself undertook a physical enquiry into the complaint. 

        The hon. Member, Mr. D.N. Joshi from Cantonment, has also with a lot of enthusiasm and gusto advocated that the Government should ensure that each and every Primary Schools is provided with the requisite number of teachers. He has pointed out or reminded the House that because we know that each and every full-fledged L.P. schools has five classes and therefore, he has suggested that there should be at least five teachers in each Primary School. Now on this point, I would like to inform the hon. Member that much as I wanted to do on my part, the Chief Minister who has got an overall responsibility for this department would also like not 5 but 6 teachers in each Primary Schools to ensure that the teachers get one period rest. But unfortunately for two reason one is the staffing pattern that has been laid down by the Government of India. According to the staffing pattern laid down by the Government of India a Primary Schools is entitled to have only one teacher over the first 40 pupils. Secondly, there are schools which the Government is fully aware that they do not deserve an additional teacher or two additional teachers. Then again, we brought done for the fact that our resources are very limited and unless and until the State from its own resources can provide additional teachers even against the yard stick laid down by the Government of India, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am afraid that nothing can be done in the immediate future. 

        Then, I am sorry I do not remember the names, I am sorry I do not have the points just now. One hon. Member has expressed his dissatisfaction at the fact that the Sub-Inspector of Schools is holding the charge of the post of D.I. in Jowai. It is a fact, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is the state of affairs. But though the Government is very anxious to rectify this state of affairs, unfortunately, due to the technical difficulties we have not been able to do it as yet. Now, as the hon. Member has made a suggestion, I have no doubt he knows very well that the post of the D.I. of Schools is filled up by promotion and because of some technical difficulties we have been handicapped and we cannot promote the S.I. of Schools to occupy that post. But nevertheless, I can assure the hon. member, Shri D.N. Joshi, that when we are out of the woods in respect of technical difficulties, the Government will take appropriate action to appoint a full fledged D.I. of Schools at Jowai.

        Now the hon. Member from Jowai, Mr. B.B. Shallam, drew the attention of the House to the fact that the Jowai Government College is being run in a rented house. He has very correctly stated the fact but I am sure that he also knows that the Government has already taken steps to have a more decent looking and a more dignified building in Jowai itself so as to enable the Government to house all the classes, the library, the staff room and so on and so forth in one in one single building. Then I am sure that the hon. Member is fully aware of the fact that a plot of land has already been acquired for the purpose of constructing the Jowai Government College buildings and I would only like to add that plans and estimates are under the preparation by the Public Works Department with the help of an architect. Now, I would therefore, like to take this opportunity to assure the hon. Member that the Government will not be found sleeping on this scheme. Then he has also advocated and made a plea for starting a Science section in the Jowai Government College. The Principal of the Jowai Government College, some three or four months ago, submitted his proposals and those proposals are being examined very thoroughly. Now, as we know, starting of Science classes especially at the College level is not as easy and simple a matter as that of staring an Arts College. The question of procuring laboratory equipment, etc., is there. Therefore, the question of opening Science section or Science classes in Jowai College is being considered very very minutely and carefully.

        Now, the hon. Member has also suggested that a Girls High Schools be established in Jowai. Now technically speaking, that means according to the rules and criteria followed by any State Government in Education Department, the people of Jowai have the right to claim the establishment of this Girl's High School. But in the case of Jowai, the establishment of a Girls' High School will have to be studied also in the context of the criteria governing the opening of such school.

        Now, the hon. Member from Mynso-Raliang has alleged that the Education Department does not seem to be vigilant and therefore it does not know whether the schools are being inspected properly or not. On this point, I would like to state that it is not a fact that the Government is not vigilant. We are very vigilant. The Government is also very concerned and because of our concern about these aspects of the activities of the Education Department, I personally invited all the inspecting officers from the rank of the Inspectors of Schools to the rank of the Inspectors of Schools to the rank of the Sub Inspectors to a conference in my room about a month ago with the intention to discuss with them the difficulties they encountered in the performance of their duties. Some of the points raised by them was that the number of inspecting officers was not adequate and No (2) they had also pointed out that unless and until a vehicle is provided to the Deputy Inspector of Schools, it becomes very difficult for him to undertake inspection of all the schools that he would have undertaken during the year if he were made more mobile. Then they have also pointed out that the clerical staff in the office of the D.P.I. is no adequate. So Mr. Speaker, Sir, I mentioned this conference to show to the Members that the Government is fully aware. We are as concerned as anybody in this august House to ensure that inspection of the various schools is undertaken very frequently. Then again, Mr. D.N. Joshi, the hon. Member from Cantonment, has stated that there was great delay in the release of grants to the schools. According to the information I have, here has actually been no delay and in fact, during this current year, the grants have been released upto May, 1972 and for the months of June 1972 to February, 1973. The process for the release of grants will be undertaken as soon as the budget is passed and the session prorogued.

Shri D.N. Joshi (Cantonment) :- It is in respect of Primary Schools?

Shri D.D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, if there are some schools which have not received the grants, I would again re-emphasize the fact that we would expect the management of such schools to inform the Government so that appropriate action can be taken. Now the hon. Member from Mynso-Raliang, Mr. Hadem, has also had the occasion to advocate that the teachers serving in the basic schools be made permanent. Now, on this point, subject to correction, of course, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we had a commission which brought out its recommendations in 1966 and suggested that a person who had been in a post for 5 years that post should be declared to be permanent. But though this recommendation was placed before the then Government of Assam it was only as recently as two years ago that the Government of Assam announced its desire, its willingness for such posts to be declared as permanent. Our Education Department, - I am not talking of the Government, - I am talking of the Department, - our Directorate, - our Directorate is definite in this information that this benefit should be extended to the teachers serving in the basic schools also by this Government. 

Shri H. Hynniewta (Nongkhlaw S.T.) :- On a point of order, the Minister was saying "I am not speaking of the Government but I am speaking on behalf of the Government". May we know whether the Directorate and the Government are two separate institutions which have no joint responsibility?

Mr. Speaker :- I have not heard of that.

*Shri H. Hynniewta (Nongkhlaw S.T.) :- He has said "I am speaking on behalf of the Directorate and not on behalf of the Government". If you go through the records, you will find that. I think that will have to be corrected.

Shri D.D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I said that I would like to have it altered and I stand corrected. But the point I want to make is this, that the Government has not taken any decision but that the Directorate has made a proposal to the Government and the matter is under consideration. 

        Now, coming to the points raised by the hon. Member, Mr. G. Mylliemngap and also directly or indirectly, partially or completely also made by the other hon. Members. Now that point made by the hon. Member Mr. G. Mylliemngap was to ensure that the Government does not allow the mushroom growth of Middle English Schools. On this point, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would state that in recent years the Government has not opened or started any School. In fact, schools are opened or started by the people themselves, and in the succeeding years, I am not sure if the schools are recognised or not recognised by the Government. Now, the authority to recognise any Schools is the Inspector of Schools or in rare cases by the Assistant Inspector of Schools under the recommendation of the Department or the Inspector of Schools. In case of High Schools, which have been proceeded upto Class VII or VIII, the authority to recognise is the Director of Public Instruction under the recommendation of the Inspector of schools. Since the point raised by the hon. Member, Shri G. Mylliemngap concerns with the recognition of M.E. schools, I shall give my information only to the point relating to the opening, starting, granting of recognition to the M.E. Schools. Now, the condition on which recognition is granted to M.E. schools are quite few but most important. One is that no new M.E. schools is allowed to be started within a distance of 3 miles from the M.E. schools which is already in existence and that there is also the question of enrolment. Now, we have heard what the hon. Member, Shri G. Mylliemngap, had spoken on this point and it would give one the impression that it is the Government which has started these M.E. Schools, and also his question is whether we have given them permission or recognition to be started. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity of stating that during the year 1970, only 4 M.E. schools were given permission to be started in the Garo Hills and 3 M.E. schools in the Khasi Hills were given permission. In the year 1971, 2 schools, one M.E. schools in the Jaintia Hills, 1 school in the Garo Hills and in the year 1972 Mr. Speaker, Sir, Government is fully aware of the fact hat many of the existing M.E. schools established in the rural areas are uneconomically at a stake and the Government is fully aware of the futility of having those M.E. schools growing like mushroom. Therefore, I would also like to take this opportunity of explaining to the hon. Member, Mr. Kurbah, who had advocated that one or two M.E. schools should be started in his Constituency. We have to proceed very cautiously in this matter and therefore, I am not sure, about it. Whereas one hon. Member has appealed for the establishment and opening of new M.E. school, another hon. Member has a very good reason to caution the Government not to go in for opening any M.E. schools and rather not to allow them to grow as mushrooms. Now, concerning on the question of giving permission to the M.E. schools I would also like to take this opportunity of making some points as follows :-

 

(1) That permission for these schools that are not in existence will involve the permission given in the years gone by.

(2) That whether we like it or not these schools are started by the people themselves and I do not think that just because we are the Members of this august House we are so concerned about education. So also other people, in their great necessity for education, should do something for the cause of education and for the cause of education of their own children, and the Government in supporting these schools have to go into the pros and cons that may arise in future. 

(3) I very deeply regret to say that in many cases it is you and I who should encourage the growth of these schools and high schools. 

        Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would also like to request the hon. Members of this august House to cooperate with the Government in educating our people through the teachers, in establishing and supporting these M.E. Schools and High Schools at a right earnest and also in a right direction. Before I sit down Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would also like to remind the House that, as a stated earlier by the Chief Minister, an Education Map of the State is under preparation and it is expected that education map may cater to the needs of all the schools and colleges which are in existence in the State and that such schools and colleges will be shown so as to enable the Government to plan its education programmes in a more realistic manner. Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member raised the other question about the proposed extension of the Government High School in Jowai. The question is as follows :-

        What is the position of the proposed shifting of the Government High School at Jowai. The answer, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is that Plans and Estimates are being diverted from the funds allotted to the Public Works Department and temporarily hostels for accommodating about 50 girls and the stall quarters are being made. 

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- On a point of clarification Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister may reply to all the questions within the specified period of time. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the question of giving more time. Sir, we know that the Minister in-charge of Education was unable to reply to various questions raised. If more time is given to him. I think this scope and amenity should also be given to other Ministers to reply to the criticism or suggestions on their Department. 

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, for Parliamentary Affairs) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, this matter has been discussed this morning also. The question is that after the replies to the points raised are given, it is upto the members to raise points and the Minister is to reply. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I raise a complaint that the hon. Minister has not yet touched the Khasi Pnar Academy. 

Mr. Speaker :- For the last 2 years the school has been managed by the Managing Committee. 

Shri Darwin D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am aware of the fact and I will have the matter enquired and appropriate steps taken. The hon. Member, Shri Majaw, has had occasion to say that Members of the other side of the House are fully satisfied and if that being the case, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would entreat them or request them especially the mover of the Cut Motion to withdraw the Cut Motion. Thank you. 

Shri Dethwelson Lapang :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of information. The hon. Minister has not yet replied that financial benefit be extended to Aided School Teachers. 

Mr. Speaker :- During the cut motions, the Minister should concentrate his reply to points raised in the Cut Motions and not to each and every points. 

Shri D.D. Lapang :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have been given the privilege to suggest and we expect also to get information on the points raised. If we are not allowed to express or suggest we are not expecting to get any information. It is not clear why for so many years the financial benefit has been extended to the Aided Schools by the former Government of Assam and it is said that the Government has contributed G.P. Fund for the teachers. May I know since when the Meghalaya Government has given this privilege to these schools?

Shri D.D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, decision has been taken and help will be extended. 

Shri D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, with regard to payments of grants to primary schools for 1971-72.......

Mr. Speaker :- Order, order, when the Speaker, stands all Members should sit down. As already replied by the Minister, in case there is any school which has not received the grants, it is upto the Managing Committees of these schools to write to the Government for taking necessary action. 

Shri D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Minister has replied so far with regard to colleges, secondary schools and high schools but he has not touched or replied to the points raised with regard to Primary schools. Primary schools have not at all got or received grants from the Government for the last few years.

Mr. Speaker :- About 50 or odd primary schools are here in Shillong and they are within the jurisdiction of the Government. It is not a fact that the Government will not consider the matter as these schools are within the jurisdiction of the District Council. In fact, all schools, primary schools or high schools or every schools which is within the jurisdiction of the Government, the Minister has assured of the help required.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, yesterday I sought clarification why the Government is not taking interest at all on Basic Education and why this Basic Education is still being maintained because this Basic Education is here in our State just for trial?

*Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, my colleague has informed the House that the Commission on Education has been formed. All these matters will be gone through by the commission and until that time it will not be possible for the Government to come to any firm decision. Therefore, I request all the hon. Members to be patient.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh (Pariong S.T.) :- Another point, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is regarding shortage of Inspecting staff. I have also observed yesterday on inspecting staff. Here in Khasi Hills alone there are 150 M.E. Schools which are not mushroom institutions. In fact they are duly recognised or have been permitted to be started by the Department concerned. I would request the Government that for efficient inspection the post of additional D.I. of schools, Assistant Inspector of schools for Hills be created. I would also like to know that for efficient inspection of schools why is it not possible to recommend increase of staff D.I. of schools. 

Shri D.D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think I have touched this point also. I have made it very clear that I have convened a conference of inspecting staff from the rank of Inspectors down to S.I. of schools and some recommendation have been made for the inspecting staff. That conference is to consider the desirability of appointing more inspecting officers and I think that is very very clear. Now the Government is fully aware of the fact that the post of A.I. of schools here in Khasi Hills is still lying vacant. With regard to the post of D.I. of schools I have already mentioned that there are some technical difficulties in the way. Therefore, these posts are still lying vacant and the moment we get over these technical difficulties the vacant posts will be filled up. 

Mr. Speaker :- I think the question of Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh is whether the Government is prepared to increase the staff?

Shri D.D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, inadequacy of inspecting staff was repeatedly raised. We are fully aware of the fact and we will consider it.

Shri. Hopingstone Lyngdoh (Pariong S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in spite of the sincerity of the hon. Minister to clarify the points raised - yet I would reserve two points more for clarification. That is a deficit, R.B. Anupchand Hindi School. There was no Managing Committee, no inspection was made and no checking was done. I am afraid there might be misappropriation of money. Another point is regarding the policy of the Government for giving adequate grant in-aid to the Adhoc Schools and these points have not yet been replied by the Minister. But since the Minister has sincerely assured not only to reorganise the education system of the whole State but also to make an attempt towards improvement of the standard of education, I withdraw the Cut Motion. 

Mr. Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave the House to withdraw the Cut Motion ( voices : yes, yes).  The Cut Motion is with leave of the House withdrawn. Now I put the question before the House.

        The question is that an amount of Rs.2,64,90,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the "28- Education" ( The motion was adopted and grant passed).

The House stands adjourned till 2 p.m. 

(After Lunch) 

        The House met at 2 p.m. with the Speaker in the Chair.

Mr. Speaker :- I request the Minister of State for Education to move Grant No.25.

Shri Darwin D. Pugh (Minister of State, Education) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to mover that a amount of Rs.10,03,100, be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March 1973 for the administer of the "28- Education-E- Technical Education".

Mr. Speaker :- The grant is moved. In this connection, I have received one Cut Motion in the name of Shri H.S. Lyngdoh, Shri Enowell Pohshna and Shri H. Hadem. 

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- We do not move the Cut Motion.

Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on this Budget, I notice some discrepancies where we would like to have some clarifications. 

Mr. Speaker :- No, now we are coming to the Grant. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem  :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to rise on a point of order. Now there is no Cut Motion at this stage, how can we discuss anything on that particular Grant?

Mr. Speaker :- There is no bar to discuss the Grant itself where there is discrepancy and not on the Cut Motion.

Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, you will find in this budget under Head "Development Scheme" Fourth Five Year Plan and under the Item 'State' we have 4 lakhs of rupees and under Item 'District' we have 3 lakhs, but when we come to this detailed statement of the Fourth Five Year Plan submitted along with the Budget, we find that the figures given do not tally. In page 12 of the detailed estimates of the Fourth Five Year Plan Scheme, we find there that the Development scheme under Fourth Five Year Plan comes to 4 lakhs. But there is no discrepancy. But in the District, we have Rs.3,00,500 and in the general Budget we have 3 lakhs under the Heads 'District'. But in this detailed statement, we have Rs.3,00,500 and on top of that, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we find that under item "State Plan" it was given under District 8 lakhs at page 12 of this Fourth Five Year Plan Scheme. In the statement in the other State Plan we have 8 lakhs of rupees and under other Heads we have Rs.1 lakhs. Rs.1 lakhs Rs.50,000 it comes to Rs.2,50,000 it will come to 3 lakhs and if we take these figures of 8 lakhs, it will come to 11 lakhs whereas in the Budget statement, Schemes under Fourth Five Year Plan are given only 3 lakhs for the District. But here if we add up all the figures, the total will come to Rs.11 lakhs. So Mr. Speaker, Sir, certainly, we should have a very convincing explanation as to how these figures are put?

Mr. Speaker :- How the Minister will reconcile?

Shri Hoover Hynniewta (Nongkhlaw S.T.) :- In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we find in the General Budget money being set apart for the Shillong Polytechnic. Shillong Polytechnic under Normal Budget, we have Rs.2,58,000 and under Fourth Five Year Plan again we have another 1 lakhs and then under the Heads in the same statement under 'Miscellaneous' again for setting up of hostel for boys another Rs.1 lakh and for setting up of girls' hostel another 1 lakhs. Therefore, in the absence of any financial Memorandum, we do not understand Mr. Speaker, Sir, as to how this money is going to be utilised. Normally speaking, along with the Finance Minister's statement, we used to have in the erstwhile Assam Assembly, some financial memorandum. Here I have before me the Survey of the Third Five Year Plan implementation for the year 1961-62, 1963-64, 1964-65 and so on, supplement to the Budget Speech by Shri Fakaruddin Ali Ahmed, the then Finance Minister of Assam. If some kind of this statement is given, it will be possible for us to understand the various items incorporated in the Budget. But here we are completely in the dark as to how this money is going to be utilised. So I do not want to go much into the various details of this Grant in view of the shortness of time. But certainly, we would like to have some clarifications on these discrepancies.

Shri Darwin D. Pugh (Minister of State for Education) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, at the very outset, I would like to confess that I have not gone into the figures as pointed out by the hon. Member who has just resumed his seat and therefore, I do not know whether I will be able to give the reply to the entire satisfaction of the Hon. Member. I would certainly take this opportunity to draw the attention of the hon. Member to page 11 and there under District column "Assistance to students", book, grants, etc., the allocation is 1 lakhs, then under pay of Officers and Pay of Establishment, allowance, etc., Contingency another 1 lakh. In the total of what has been printed Rs.1 lakh it ought to be Rs.2 lakhs. That is a printing mistake. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- What page?

Shri Darwin D. Pugh (Minister of State for Education) :- Page 11 volume 3. The total ought to be Rs.2 lakh and not Rs.1 lakhs this is supported by the fact that the next entry is Rs.50,000 against the establishment of polytechnic for Girls, in Shillong and the total is Rs.2 lakhs. In like manner there is another allocation made against pay of Officers pay of Establishment, Allowance another Rs.50,000. In the same page, right at the bottom, if you take another Rs.2,50,000 plus Rs.50,000, the total come to 3 lakhs, so Rs.8 lakhs is a printing mistake. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- So Rs.8 lakhs is a printing mistake and how do you account for the Rs.500?

Mr. Speaker :- That is at page 12 under the District - Rs.3,00,500. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta (Nongkhlaw S.T.) :- In the Budget itself it is Rs. 3 lakhs, Sir.

*Shri D.D. Pugh (Minister of State for Education) :- I am not too sure, Mr. Speaker, Sir, but it looks as if it is a printing mistake. It should have been a zero instead of 5. I can give you the break up and that will explain the difference. Under normal, State is 44,600 and district 2,58,500 bringing the total to 3,03,100. Under State Plan for Shillong Polytechnic, in the Plan 2,50,000 under buildings, that is under Capital Outlay 2 lakhs, then against hostel of girls' Polytechnic under Plan 50,000 and buildings under Capital Outlay 50,000, Jowai technical school, Capital Outlay 50,000. The total comes to 6 lakhs. Centrally sponsored schemes for Shillong Polytechnic, for the construction of hostels 2 lakhs, for the construction of a hostel for the girls, Polytechnic Rs. one lakh, research, scholarships etc. one lakh, the total comes to 4 lakhs. So the total allocation under normal budget is 3,03,100 and under Plan 6 lakhs, centrally sponsored schemes 4 lakhs...........

Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- Where do you have these figures please? Are they here in the budget? We are talking about the Fourth Five Year Plan schemes! We are not questioning about the veracity of the figures under normal; we are questioning the veracity under plan schemes.

Mr. Speaker :- So, the total is 3 lakhs for the districts and State 3,00,500.

Shri D. D. Pugh (Minister of State for Education) :- Sir, these printing errors that I have pointed out I am dead sure that it is very likely that this 500 is a printing mistake. To prove that I am just showing the total break-up both in Plan and normal and Capital Outlay. By doing that we will see that the entire outlay is Rs.30,03,100. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- Why does the Minister have to beat about the bush. The question is that this 500 should be there. Why should he say that it is most likely a printing mistake. For such a reply that this 500 is likely a mistake whether it is necessary to the House or not. But the Minister should come out with a definite reply that this 500 is a mistake which should not have been there. Then we can easily pass on to other items. But his telling about this now which has no bearing, I think it amounts to the wastage of the precious time of the House. If he is not in a position to say definitely that it is a mistake, let him say so. I do not think that our Government is incapable of printing mistakes. Perhaps some more printing mistakes may be there, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we would like to get a definite statement. 

Shri D. D. Pugh (Minister of State for Education) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, well, it is a printing mistake because there is no indication how this Rs.500 was taken.

Shri Humphrey Hadem (Mynso-Raliang S.T.) :- So, indirectly the hon. Member from this side has got 5 lakhs and 500.

Mr. Speaker :- Now, after hearing the reply from the Minister of State incharge of Education regarding the anomalies in the printing of the budget so far as technical education is concerned, I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.10,03,100 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1973 for the administration of the head "28- Education-E - Technical Education".

        The motion is adopted. The Grant is passed.

Grant No.28.

Shri Grohonsing Marak (Minister of State, P.W.D.) :- On the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, Sir, to move that an amount of Rs.63,58,300 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1973 for the administration of the head "30- Public Health-II Public Health Engineering".

Mr. Speaker :- The Grant is moved. I have received one cut motion from Shri Rowell Lyngdoh, Shri Enowell Pohshna and Shri Humphrey Hadem. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- As time will not permit, we do not move the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- I put the question. The question is that an amount of Rs.63,58,300 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1973 for the administration of the head "30- Public Health-II Public Health Engineering".

        The motion is adopted. The Grant is passed. 

Grant No.46.

Shri D. D. Pugh (Minister of State for Education) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, Sir, to move that an amount of Rs.7,11,500 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1973 for the administration of the head "39- Miscellaneous, Social and Developmental Organisation- IV- Directorate of Advertising and Visual Publicity".

Mr. Speaker :- The grant is moved. I have received one cut motion in the name of Shri William Cecil Marak and Shri Humphrey Hadem. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- I do not know about the other hon. Member, but as far as I am concerned, I do not propose to move the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- So I put the question. The question is that an amount of Rs.7,11,500 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1973 for the administration of the head "39- Miscellaneous, Social and Developmental Organisation- IV- Directorate of Advertising and Visual Publicity".

        The motion is adopted. The Grant is passed. 

Grant No.49.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, Sir, to move that an amount of Rs.39,400 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1973 for the administration of the Head "39- Miscellaneous, Social and Developmental Organisation- Other Miscellaneous Organisation- VII- Soldiers', Sailors' and Airmen's Board".

Mr. Speaker :- The grant is moved. I have received one cut motion in the name of Shri Rowell Lyngdoh.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh:- Due to shortage of time, I am not going to move my cut motion. 

Mr. Speaker :- So I put the question. The question is that an amount of Rs.39,400 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1973 for the administration of the Head "39- Miscellaneous, Social and Developmental Organisation- Other Miscellaneous Organisation- VII- Soldiers', Sailors' and Airmen's Board".

        The motion is adopted. The grant is passed. 

Grant No.52.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.12,300 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March 1973 for the administration of the Head "39- Miscellaneous, Social and Developmental Organisation- X- Preservation and Translation of Ancient Manuscripts".

Mr. Speaker :- The grant is moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. 

        The question is that an amount of Rs.12,300 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1973 for the administration of the head "39- Miscellaneous, Social and Developmental Organisation- X- Preservation and Translation of Ancient Manuscripts".

        The motion is adopted. The grant is passed. 

Grant No.55.

Shri Grohonsing Marak (Minister of State, P.W.D.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.5,00,000, be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1973 for the administration of the Head "44- Irrigation, Navigation, Embankment and Drainage Works, etc."

Mr. Speaker :- The Grant is moved. I have received one cut motion from Shri Humphrey Hadem, Shri Enowell Pohshna and Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- We do not propose to move the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- So I put the question. The question is that an amount of Rs.5,00,000, be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1973 for the administration of the head "44- Irrigation, Navigation, Embankment and Drainage Works, etc."

        The motion is adopted. The Grant is passed. 

Grant No.56.

Mr. Speaker :- The Chief Minister to move.

Shri Williamson. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- On the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, Sir, to move that an amount of Rs.3,22,93,600 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1973 for the administration of the head "50- Public Works, etc. (Excluding Establishment and Tools and Plants)".

Mr. Speaker :- The grant is moved. Since I have received a cut motion in the name of 5 hon. Members, viz., Shri Enowell Pohshna, Shri Maham Singh, Shri Hoping Stone Lyngdoh, Shri Edward Kurbah, Shri Hadem, I would request one of them to move. 

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh (Pariong S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to move that the total provision of Rs.3,22,93,600 under Grant No.56, Major Head "50-Public Works, etc. (Excluding Establishment and Tools and Plants"), at page 290 of the Budget be reduced to Re.1 i.e., the amount of the whole Demand of Rs.3,22,93,600 do stand reduced to Re.1.

Mr. Speaker :- The Cut motion is moved.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I move the cut motion to raise a discussion on the policy of the Government regarding certain matters connected with the Public Department. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Public Works Department has been committing many irregularities and also corrupt practices are rampant in the department. The point I want to speak is about registration of contractors in the Public Works Department. As it is now, the contractors who have been registered in the Public Works Department are those persons who have been favoured by somebody. We have seen that registration of contractors has been confined to certain families, and certain communities. We find that people from the same family, right from the father and wife; the mother and to their children were registered as contractors in one division, and even their grand children, also. But the registration was refused totally to other certain families who have applied for registration. This has deprived many others who want to register themselves as contractors, even those who have experience as Government registered contractor. 

        Another thing, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is about the policy of the Government regarding payment of bills by the P.W.D. in certain Divisions. It has been the practice to make payment in the form of running bill and final bill and sometime over payments were made above the tender value. This has been practised in the P.W.D. Divisions of our State. Instances are there that contractors of one Division drew a running bill of Rs.16,60,000 against a tender value of Rs.75,000 in the name of dead person and even those who have died long years ago have been allowed to draw money in the P.W.D. This kind of payment, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is very very irregular leading to corrupt practices. Again, Sir, the policy of the Government in the P.W.D. is to favour somebody, I mean favouritism to contractors, especially those who are coming from outside the State. As the House is aware, money for many of the roads or majority of the works that have been executed by the Government is from the 4th Plan provision given by the Government of India. Plan allocation and Grants given by the Government of India to the States are based on population and also on the backwardness of the State. The intention of giving these grants on financial assistance under the 4th Plan to the State is that the State should use it for developing and raising the economic condition of the people in that way that, the money given and utilised will be distributed to the people of that State but here the outsider have taken all the money from this State. 

( Bell rang)

        I have another point, Sir, please give me some time more to complete, because this amount of Rs.3,22,93,600 as provided in the budget under this head is one of the biggest allocations. 

        Then again, Sir, we have seen the monopoly enjoyed by some contractors in the contract works of the P.W.D. It has been the practice in the P.W.D. that work is allotted to some people on the advice of certain contractors who are in good book of the Executive Engineers concern or who are their most favourites and also tenders are accepted on their advice. 

Mr. Speaker :- Which Division?

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- I would mention, Sir, Tura and Nongstoin Divisions where large amount of money was spent on the Shillong- Tura Road last year.

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- On a point of clarification, Sir, there is no monopoly as alleged by the hon. Member.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- Yes, Sir, there is monopoly I have got enough proof to substantive. Again, Sir, we have seen that the standard of construction of road is very poor, that black-topping done in many of the roads is not satisfactory in that after 3 or 4 months the roads have become as usual or as worse as a non- metalled road and we cannot call it a metalled road. The standard of black-topping on the roads has become worse than before. This is the standard of road construction that is being followed by the Government in the P.W.D. With these few words, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I move the cut motion. 

*Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the cut Motion moved by the hon. Member, regarding P.W.D. and some of the hon. Members have also thrown bric bats here and there. For myself, of course, as I come from the constituency where there is one road, i.e.,  Umsning Road right up to Jagi Road, I have something to say. This road is a very important road. But of course, I would plead for the black- topping of that road upto Mawhati, from Nayabungalow to Mawhati, but the bridges were badly built by the Government of Assam. Without extension of the road, I do not know how the Department will start repairing those bridges. At the same time, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am happy and so also hon. Members who have moved this cut motion, to see the responsibility is being taken by the Chief Minister as it has been shifted from the Minister of State to the Chief Minister. But I must say that with regard to this Department, in the past there were numerous cases that took place particularly during the election. I would suggest to this honourable House that a Commission of Enquiry be instituted to examine the involvement of the big contractors in the last two elections to the Assembly and the District Council. With my own eyes I have seen contractors have been moving in the early hours and at night. 

Mr. Speaker :- I do not understand whether they are R/R or P.W.D. contractors!

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Since we are dealing with P.W.D., I will presume that they are not R/R contractors. Sir, I have seen with my own eyes a particular contractor walking in the small hours of the morning even before the birds are getting up. 

Mr. Speaker :- May I point out to the hon. Member that the enthusiasm taken by the contractors, this business man, or that business man has nothing to do with this grant !

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- I humbly beg to differ, Sir. This is because of the relationship that a Member has with the contractors and huge sum of money had been spent during the election. We know that an amount of Rs.2,500 has been spent for the election. 

Mr. Speaker :- This also is the concern of the Election Commission.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- It is also the concern of the particular Department not to allow these things to take place. 

        Now the third point I would like to raise is the matter of compensation. Of course here also where the case of compensation is concerned the Department has already paid certain amount in a few cases. But there are cases where compensation has been paid at all (Bell rang) where it has been paid it was never received by the right person and P.W.D. are still using the road. I am referring to a particular case where for the last 18 years compensation has not been paid to the rightful owners. Fourthly I see the gate at Bhoi Lymbong, it is an illegal gate and I do not know why this P.W.D. has allowed this gate to be placed on the road at Bhoi Lymbong. 

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Which place?

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- At Bhoi Lymbong- Bhoi Lymbong. There is a gate there beyond the airfield. This is the most illegal act. And finally Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would request the Department to see to it that officers even Minister are kept far apart from these contractors. Sometimes these contractors are like satellites to the Ministers. These contractors are used even as Chaprasi to bring the golden and white coloured things. 

Mr. Speaker :- Once again I remind the hon. Member, that whatever the Ministers do in their private capacity should not be brought before the House.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, Minister remains always a Minister and an officer remains always an officer. I expect that the opposition can offer some advice. 

Mr. Speaker :- Supposing a Minister's daughter is married to a contractor will you charge the Minister for that?

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- I am sorry Sir, I do not know that Contractors were married to Minister! Having placed all these points, I take my seat.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh (Umroi S.T.) :- I support the cut motion moved by my friend. The construction of the Barapani U.C.C. Road is in a very very low standard. They have done black-topping and there is no side drain along the road and the road has not been widened. 

Mr. Speaker :- That is why you will find the budget allotment. 

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would request the Government, through you, Sir, to see to this road and also to continue it up to Mawmih where there are plenty agricultural products which cannot be brought to Shillong and other places. 

        And another point I would like to enlighten is about the Bhoi Lymbong gate which the hon. Member has referred. This gate is in my Constituency and I would like to enlighten the House. This road was taken up by the Government in 1968 and compensation has been promised by Additional Engineers, Executive Engineer, Deputy Commissioner and in any officers. But up till now compensation has not been taken up. As regards this gate I may not agree that it is an illegal act because those persons who raised the gate did it by the judgement of the Court.  Sir, before the work was taken up by the P.W.D. the forest contractors along with some other people have raised the gate on the road and they repaired the road and the bridges. And so in the last two years our people there filed a case against them. They said since the compensation has not been paid, the Court cannot remove the gate. So in order to remove the gate from there I would like to request the Government to make early payment of compensation.  

Shri G. Mylliemngap (Sohryngkham S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, it seems that the Government machinery is as slow as God's machinery. Last time we got assurance from the Hon'ble Chief Minister that the Shillong Tynring- Diengpasoh road has been sanctioned and the work will be started very soon. As I stated last time, this road has been a chronic disease of the people of this area and we found no other way left way to get this road constructed. Last time we have met the Hon'ble Finance Minister to find out ways and means how to take possession of this land. But actually I feel myself that the Government is not really very sincere about getting this land for the construction of the road because what I feel is that the Government could easily have the advantage of possessing this existing road and start the work and do something so that the people will understand that our Government is really interested for the welfare of the people. 

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to intervene here that road construction should be preceded by land acquisition. Land must be made available to the P.W.D. by the Land Acquisition Department, i.e. the Revenue Department and land has to be acquired, as the hon. Member knows, according to the provisions of the Land Acquisition Act. This takes a very long time. Firstly, there will be notification for a particular land which will be acquired. Then there will be objection, claims, which are really a great problem for the Government in taking over a land and even it may take years together to settle the dispute. Last time we had tried, as has been mentioned by hon. Member, to take possession of the land and make it available to the P.W.D. for construction of the road. Now, they are asking the Deputy Commissioner to hand over the land. And Deputy Commissioner will have to give a title and this is a question of procedure according to Land Acquisition Act. Therefore, I would request the hon. Member to realise the difficulties of getting the land which is a very lengthy process. In this connection, it is advisable that if the hon. Member could get the co-operation of the people themselves in handing over the land to the Government it would be easy for the P.W.D. Department to expedite the matter. 

*Shri Hoover Hynniewta (Nongkhlaw S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, immediately after the intervention of the Law Minister, I would like to join issue with him and this is a most fundamental question relating to road construction. Sir, I do not think according to the provisions of the Land Acquisition Act that the acquisition of land should take years after years. As the hon. Member from Mawhati has pointed out that after 18 long years the compensation of the land taken over for the construction of the Shillong- Balat road has not been paid. I think this is a very serious question as to whether on the land acquisition matter it should take so many years of the Government to finalise the question of land compensation. To my knowledge, Mr. Speaker, Sir, under section 9 of the Land Acquisition Act the Collector can take over a land and the question of title will be determined later on. He will only determine what will be the land they will have to acquire and how much. Different parties can make claims before the Collector and if they are not satisfied with the decision of the Collector, they can file an appeal before the Civil Court under Section 18 of the Land Acquisition Act. Now I would humbly request the Law Minister to go into the minute details of this question. Because if land compensation is not paid expeditiously, it will stand in the way of expedition construction of roads. The other day we had a talk with the Chief Engineering regarding construction of Umling-Patharkhmah road. He told  me that money has been sanctioned but construction work could not be taken up because of land acquisition proceedings. In the context of the prevailing food scarcity in that area I would earnestly request the Chief Minister to call all the officers from the Revenue Department, Deputy Commissioner, Chief Engineer and sit together and see this that road is expeditiously constructed. 

        Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we come to the question of registration. The mover of the cut motion has questioned the feasibility in case the father, daughter or wives registering themselves as contractors. I do not think I can abrogate the right of anybody to register himself or herself as contractor. And do not think it would amount to breach of fundamental rights if my son registers his name as contractor since I am also a contractor. But it is a question of allocation of work. If you will allocate to the father, to the son, to the wife and brother, that is a very serious question. 

        Now as regard the question of roads in Shillong I must say that they are in a very deplorable condition. Potholes here, potholes there, potholes right, potholes left and the poor pedestrians have to be very careful lest they may put their feet in some pool of water or a car my splash the well- dressed citizens of Shillong. But Mr. Speaker, Sir, I must sound a note of appreciation, as my hon. friend from Mawhati has already stated, for expeditions construction of Shillong- Tura Road. This is a matter of great pride that it is by our Government this road has been completed and now jeeps can go up to Nongstoin. In my constituency also the construction work is undertaken very expeditiously. I am satisfied that the Chief Engineer and Executive Engineering are taking keen interest for the early completion of Nongkhlaw-Kynrut road the work of which was undertaken during the regime of Assam Government 20 years ago. It is really encouraging that the Chief Engineer and Executive Engineer are taking immediate steps for early completion of the work.

        With these few words I resume my seat. 

Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah (Jaiaw S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to say that if there is any department which has created an impact on the development of the State, it is the P.W.D. department. We have seen their works throughout the State and I quite agree with Mr. Hynniewta that in certain instances the work of P.W.D. is commendable. Now, while realising that there are certain Divisions which do practise certain irregularities, there are certain difficulties that are faced in the discharged of their duties. I do not except the contention of the mover of the Cut Motion that the P.W.D. is practicing certain irregularities and corrupt practices. This is a whole sale condemnation of the Administration of the Department and, I think, this is most uncalled for. I had, the other day, the unfortunate privilege to stand up on this ground and to state that somehow or the other there are some Members who are always trying to downgrade the Government at the cost of good people. There may be black-sheep but you cannot just say that all are black or bad. I know, Sir, that there are certainly good people working in the P.W.D. who are very devoted to their duties, and I also know that there are some people whose behaviours is questionable. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I do not hold the contention of this whole sale corruption of the P.W.D. I oppose the cut motion.

        Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether it is right or how far it is correct that favour has been shown by the Government to contractors coming from other States. I really have never had much direct contact with contractors but in the last two years I have seen that our local people have become contractors who never in their life dreamt to make so much money. I see that there is a trend in the policy of the Government to encourage the local contractors. This is because of the legacy inherited from the Government of Assam but certainly there is a definite policy to encourage the local contractors. I have had also the occasion to act on behalf of the small contractors and I have seen that the response was good particularly from the Chief Engineer. But I would agree with the contention of certain hon. Members that there is a low standard of work. For instance, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the other day I gave a call attention notice to the G.S. Road, particularly the portion between the Mawlai Bridge and the Police Point. 

        Some hon. Members - But you have already spoken on this ?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Yes, but I am coming to a very important point. Sir, the repair work was done only last year.

        Some hon. Members - That the work was not satisfactory? 

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- No, it was not satisfactory. Sir, we are here to be objective. As I have stated before, there are many instances of splashing of dirty water on the body of well-dressed citizens. The other day I had a meeting with the leaders of my constituency for the cause of Student's Field. I am very happy that the Chief Minister has responded and he has promised that the work will be started immediately. I put t his instance before the House in order to show the warm response on the part of the Government. This Government is functioning now for 5 months and we really cannot expect it to do everything immediately. Therefore, what is needed now is to weed out undesirable elements (Bell rang) and to that end, I think, all of  us have a duty to perform. With these few words, Sir, I oppose the cut motion.

Shri Raisen Mawsor (Mawthengkut S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to speak only on two points on land compensation. Sir, the land compensation due to the people in respect of the road from Sonapahar to Nongdaju and from Nongdaju to Nongshram has not been paid as yet. The land owners came to me several times and they told me that they had been seeing the Deputy Commissioner, the Sub-Deputy Collector and others. Last year i.e.,  in 1971, the hon. Minister in-charge of P.W.D. now in-charge of Agriculture, went to see the Shillong-Tura Road and at that time he was halting at Sonapahar. He met the land owners to whom he had promised that their grievances would be attended to within two months and in this year, 1972, also I think on the 16th of May, at Nongriangba, two Ministers one in-charge of Agriculture and the other of P.W.D., went again to visit the Shillong-Tura Road and me the land owners who raised the land compensation issue. The Minister in-charge of P.W.D. promised them that the Government would pay their compensation.

Mr. Speaker :- I think out of this amount the compensation will also be paid.

Shri Raisen Mawsor :- Sir, the majority of the people from my Constituency are backward and they even had to come to Shillong many times for collection of the compensation by spending money on transport and fooding. 

Mr. Speaker :- Your point is that the Government has to pay compensation to the rightful land owners. Is that your contention?

Shri Raisen Mawsor :- Yes, Sir. Now I would request the Government to take necessary steps to pay the compensation to these people of the backward areas after this Budget Session.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh (Mawkyrwat S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, while supporting this Cut Motion I may say that there are so many big demands for roads since decades ago but the Government seems to be unable to implement those demand sin the Plan Schemes. That is why, Mr. Speaker, Sir, many of the people in my area and the public are demanding construction of roads from one place to another place in the interior. I think that an enquiry by the Executive Engineer should be made so that the roads could be included in the Plan Schemes. It seems that the Government pay attention only to some areas. But, of course, a new Government cannot be expected to do very much but in time those schemes will be taken up. 

Mr. Speaker :- I think in the Cut Motion we should concentrate more for the interest of the whole State and not for one small area. I do not think Government is thinking only for the interest of this area or that area but always for the interest of the whole State. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta (Nongkhlaw S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, if the Members are not allowed to plead for their Constituencies during the voting on demand for grants then when will they be allowed to do so. There in Parliament and in the Assam Legislative Assembly we have been allowed to do so. 

Mr. Speaker :- I understand your point that is why I have been allowing them to plead right from the very beginning though I know exactly that it is wrong. But here in our infant State we still allow them to do so. As a seasoned parliamentarian; you know very well that when they want to plead for a particular constituency they will have to come forward with a token Cut Motion and not with the motion for the disapproval of the Government policy. But I have given them chances to plead for their constituency considering that the majority of the Members are still inexperienced.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the first instance, I want to refer to the work of the P.W.D. There are public demands for roads in every nook and corner of the State specially in rural areas. I can cite an instance. In our P.W.D. division, it seems the P.W.D. have got very less work to do whereas there is demand for road in many places to be constructed by this Department. So I can say that we require more roads and more works in our area so that the unemployed people can get at least some work to do. As the hon. Member from the other side has stated that the State is encouraging the local contractors to undertake the work allotted by the P.W.D., I am to say that this is true and many came forward to be contractors but I have seen that the real distribution of work is always given to contractors from outside the State. Besides that, Sir, there are areas like Mawkyrwat and others which are very important areas for trade and business on which the people are living from day to day through this important road by transporting their goods and many essential commodities but now this road to Mawkyrwat  is blocked nearly a week ago and it has caused much trouble to the people. So I request the Government to see that this road is repaired or improved immediately more over there had been Public demand since a long time for metalling and black topping of that road from Weiloi to Mawkyrwat. I request the Government not to ignore the public demand and such important road. And if possible the road from Mawkyrwat should be extended up to Ranikor to link it with the border road of that area, which has already been done half way. Besides that Sir, in many important areas the road condition is so bad that big transport cannot proceed a little further to carry goods and essential commodities that the people are producing this time. So with these words Sir, I support the Cut Motion because there is no time to speak more.  

*Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would request you at least to give me some time to speak in this particular Cut Motion.

Mr. Speaker :- I have given you three minutes but in view of your special request I will allow you 5 minutes. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem (Mynso Raliang S.T.) :- Thank you Sir, and I will try to confine my observation within 3 minutes. In this particular grant Sir, I want to stress at least on the policy of the Government as has already been spoken by other Members, that is regarding payment of compensation, I think Mr. Speaker, Sir, you will bear witness with me at this juncture. 

Mr. Speaker :- I can never be a witness.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Of course you cannot be a witness here in House Mr. Speaker, Sir, but I  hope you can be a witness in the Court of Law. You have been also, Sir, a witness in one particular public meeting held sometime in Mynso in 1970. In that public meeting I remember the public have been assured by the then P.W.D. Minister for compensation of their land and that everything will be duly paid within a very short time. Now since that particular time, more than two years have passed nothing has been done, no action, no steps have been taken. Now Sir, some Members have made a remark regarding favouritism to the contractors. You can see, Sir, there is favouritism to some contractors; so also I would say that there is favouritism even here in payment of compensation to the people. By saying so, I mean that there are some areas where the people are not paid any compensation, and I would like to point out here one road, namely the Mynso Mawpynsing road were a portion of land was acquired about 5 years ago but up till now nothing has been done. Again, Sir, it has been found in my constituency in the Raliang Sohsning road where some people have not been given or paid compensation for taking over of land while somebody who does not actually possess anything and has not got any right of compensation has been paid. So I would request the Government to kindly review this particular matter so that justice is done to those people. I would like to say that the policy of the Government in the matter of compensation is not uniform at all as already said by my friend Mr. Hynniewta. It seems that the practices of the Government is not at all-along uniform in payment of compensation in our State. So I would request the Government to see to all these things and not merely saying that they have come into power only 5 months ago. But if Government recollect their memory, the P.W.D. has been functioning since the year 1970. So, Sir, the statement that the Department is only 5 months old is not correct. Again Sir, I think the hon. Member from that side has also admitted that there are black-sheep here and there but has not cited any instances so that such black sheep can be removed. I do not think the hon. Member who has moved this cut motion has given the entire blame on the whole Department, I remember Sir,- I do not think my memory will fail me, particularly in the Nongstoin Division that favouritism has been given to some contractors and I would say, Sir, that these were the same contractors who are enjoying the privilege of favouritism in Nongstoin Division who have got the privilege of the same favouritism there in Jowai Division also. I would say that this sort of favouritism in allotting the work to the contractor must not exist in future. (Bell rang) Excuse me Mr. Speaker Sir, as I am one of the hon. Members who have tabled the cut-motion, I must be given more time.

Mr. Speaker :- I said 5 minutes.

Shri H. Hadem :- I would request the Minister in-charge to go into the details of the work allotted to the contractors and I am sure, I- am really dead sure- Sir,- that specially for 1970-71 the same contractor were allotted even in 1971-72; the same contractors who had been given the work in Nongstoin Division were given in the Jowai Division also I like the expression given by Mr. P.R. Kyndiah that some of our boys have become contractors overnight. That is a correct statement. Due to favouritism they have become contractors overnight and for that, they do not know the work as is evident from what has been done actually. Those contractors actually do not even go to the road they are constructing. They are the overnight contractors only in name for what has been done by somebody. I would like Sir, that if Government would please verify these things they will find that the work could not be expedited because huge amount of work has been allotted to the same man. It is for the reason that the same man has been allotted work in the Nongstoin Division and Jowai Division that the construction work taken up 6 or 7 years back, could not be completed for example mere construction of M.E. school building. That is the position Mr. Speaker, Sir (Bell rang). Only one more point Sir, I request you kindly allow me. For that reason, Sir, I would request the Government to see that if any concrete policy is to be drawn up regarding P.W.D., I think the best thing is that the Government would please look back to what has been done and give consideration to some contractors who were not given work for the last 1 and a half year.

Mr. Speaker :- Suppose they are not efficient?

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- That will be proved by themselves. They have been given promotion from class 3 to class 2 and from class 2 to class 1. That is done, I think under the recommendation of the Executive Engineers.

Mr. Speaker :- I am not questioning those who have proved their efficiency.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- I cannot say, Sir, particularly for those who have proved their efficiency. But when they lack favouritism from somebody they have not been allotted any work for which they have submitted their tenders. With these few words Sir, I would like to request the Government to have a survey of all that has been happening, and, we hope that if the Government is sincere enough to survey such thing, they will find out the actual state of affairs.

Mr. Speaker :- Mr. Humphrey Nongrum.

Shri H. Nongrum (Langrin S.T.) :- I stand to oppose the cut motion and doing so, I want to bring out some facts. Twenty years ago, when the construction of Mawphlang- Balat road was just started, that is after we attained Independence, there were very few contractors, and Government officers like Sub-divisional Offices had to run to people requesting them to participate in the work. There was so much work then and few contractors. But now the position has changed. There are many contractors and less work. The Department registers the names of the contractor and Government is very liberal in registering the names of any- one as contractors except M.L.A., M.Ps and Government employees. A chance has been given to our people and the Department extends its hands to all the people of the State. It has reached up to Maheshkhola, the corner most part of the State; it has reached to everybody's Constituency and people have benefited from it. When there are many contractors as spoken by the hon. Member from Nongkhlaw and when husband and wife registered, and when the husband has got the allotment first the wife registered and when the husband has got the allotment first the wife will have to wait for her term. There may be mistakes here and there and the Executive Engineer may not know the fact of everybody's since there are many contractor in the Division. I know that there are about 600 to 1000 contractors, in each Division. It is good that our people have work so that they can earn money to help their families through this Department. I know that justice also has been done by this Department because if the original estimates are for 10,000 rupees even the running bills are sometimes paid up to 20 to 25 thousand. This is because they are doing justice. Why? Because in the original estimate no one knows what is inside the earth surface sometimes it is found that there are boulders, sometimes rocks and so the original estimate of the road has to be revised according to the classification shown after actual work. I have nothing to say against the P.W.Ds Policy of payment. Somebody has stated that there is irregularity in payments, I do not know of any such cases. Another point, When any servant is good and he is doing efficient works I would like to extend the services of that servant for many years, but if he is not doing good work or trustworthy he may not be kept even for one year. So is the case with a good and efficient contractor. It is a fact that this Department can recognise good contractors who are really doing efficient work with sincerity. The recognition or appreciation of the Department to such a contractor is usually shown in allotting him more works. With these few words, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I oppose the cut motion. 

Shri Francis K. Mawlot (Nongstoin S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in supporting the Cut Motion moved by the hon. Member, I would like to point out some defects in the P.W. Department. I do not blame this department but as some of the hon. Members have stated that comparing to the roads of the Assam State, we have seen there is a gap of difference. Taking for example, last year I happened to go through Shillong Badarpur, road to Khliehriat. The condition of the roads was totally blocked and horrible, but with the whole hearted spirit of workmanship of the Department, within a few day days it was repaired. Now, again, Sir, I may kindly be allowed to cite another example regarding the Shillong- Tura Road. It is half completed and I congratulate the Government for this. But in certain portions survey works have not actually been done properly. Not only in the Shillong- Tura Road but also in the Nongstoin- Sonapahar Road and Nongkhlaw- Kynrut Road. There are portions in which the department have not paid due attention and these portions are very dangerous to motor traffic. Regarding the partiality, I mean to say in Nongstoin Division, Mr. Hynniewta has said that there is no bar for registration. I quite agree with him; but there are some persons as the hon. Member has pointed out that the father, mother, grandson and daughters belonging to the same family are registered as contractor whereas the local people are being deprived of this legitimate right. Even outsiders from Gauhati will come to Shillong in order to get registers in the P.W.D. as contractors and the local people of our districts could not get the same. These poor people of ours have to come to Shillong ever now and then to approach the authority in the P.W.D. but of no avail. Their applications for registration are not accepted whereas those people w ho are of the same family (selected family), are getting every right for registration and distribution of work. As Mr. Lyngdoh has pointed out, it appears, that in the Nongstoin Division, in stead of giving first preference to those local people, local contractors, preferences have been given to the people, from outside the State. Against, Sir, as Mr. Hynniewta has rightly pointed out, local contractors from Nongstoin, Mawsynram, and Nongkhlaw divisions have totally ignored. In this regard, Sir, I am actually against what Mr. Kyndiah has stated. 

Mr. Speaker :- But you should not point out so direct!

( laughter)

Shri F.K. Mawlot :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I plead for those local contractors who have been registered about 2 or 3 years back as they have not got any work up till now. They have spent hundreds of rupees for court-fee stamps, but they were not given works. I can cite an instance, if necessary, that there are contractors from Gauhati who have got works in the Nongstoin Division. Their bills, running bills, have been paid much more that the estimated amount before the work is completed. Therefore, I would request the Government through you, Sir, that measures should strictly be taken up as to give chance to the local contractors to get works in the P.W.D. Thank you. 

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna (Nongtalang S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Cut Motion. I was looking at the Minister of State incharge of P.W.D. and I feel something grave to make many charges against the Public Works Department because.........

( Laughter )

after all he had been very good to us during the last one month. But, as Mr. Kyndiah has stated that we are going to go in for detail or specific way and not to give the wholesale charges against the Government. He has praised the work of the P.W.D. in Shillong and he is a member who has got some experience with the response in Shillong, and as such he has mentioned of the wholesale response of the Department to the people but he does not know of the response that the people from Dawki or Nongstoin have experienced. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would request that these wholesale responses should not also be applied to us. In Shillong you can not find a stone, or big rock falling on the road where you have to experience a cold response. In Shillong you have plain roads and therefore, you don't have the taste and the experience of the places in other areas in the interiors, miles and miles from Shillong. But you have got such wholesale response herein because there is no rock or any stone!

( Laughter )

        You have experienced about the Keating Road where there is no hard rock but the response is very low as declared by the hon. Members. But if you come to the interior far away from the office of the P.W.D. far far away from the Minister, from P.W.D.' office, you will agree with me, and not as pointed out by Mr. Kyndiah that most of money that has been sanctioned or given in this respect has gone to the drains. (Laughter).

        If you are to go to Balat, you have to go first to the motor station and verify where you can reach Balat (Laughter); you have to enquire from the offices of the P.W.D. Minister which way you have to go (Loud Laughter) or should have a first hand information from the Minister whether there is blockade on the road especially when you have to go to Dawki by the Dawki Road during summer. (Bell rang)

        Kindly give some time more.

Mr. Speaker :- But I will not be partial to you.

Shri H.E. Pohshna :- Only a little bit of favour, Sir, I think I shall resume my seat. Now Sir, about the Dawki-Amlarem Road. Last year about Rs.10,00,000 was sanctioned for this road but it has not been completed. Now I come to the Dawki-Jarain Road. Now the Amlarem-Dawki road which has been constructed for the last 2 years at the cost of more than 10 lakhs and the Muktapur - Jowai- Jarain road which  has been constructed for the last 3 years at the cost of 2,44,000 is not possible now. Sir, last week there was a news about the road block, there is news about the flood damages due to heavy rain on the Dawki-Borghat road and it is not possible for quite a number of days. It is really warm response! If the hon. member who has pleaded for 'warm response' happen to go from Jowai to Dawki he will have the experience and I request him to withdraw 'the warm response'.

        Another point I would like to point is with regard to the work of the P.W.D. which has become very slow during the last two years. I had the occasion of asking questions about a small building which has been estimated the cost of which is only about Rs.50,000 and for the last 2 or 3 years the P.W.D. has not been able to complete even the foundation. It is not really a warm response! It is rather, I should say, a bitter 'cold response'. Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you go to Jowai at the time say between 8 and 9 p.m. you will find that there is a place which appears like a hanging helicopter. It is a beautiful P.W.D. Bridge. 

Mr. Speaker :- You should not be so harsh because the bridge was constructed by the Assam P.W.D.

Shri H.E. Pohshna :- It is the responsibility of the Meghalaya P.W.D. since they have taken over charge from the Assam Government. Why we want to substitute the Assam Government because we want to improve our communication system. 

Mr. Speaker :- The entire construction work of the Shillong-Jowai road was done by the P.W.D. of the Government of Assam and the Meghalaya P.W.D. have recently taken over the Shillong-Jowai Road.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna :- At least, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the bridge could have been constructed. Any way, Sir, as I have already said, I am not charging the P.W.D. State Minister but I want only to take the opportunity, if he does not mind, I will have to say "spare the road and spoil the child." I do not mean that the road should be used against the P.W.D. but we just want to point out the slow construction of works of the P.W.D. With these few words I request the Minister in-charge of P.W.D. to consider the warm response.

Shri Edward Kurbah (Sohiong S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in supporting the Cut Motion I would like to raise one point. Many hon. members from different Constituencies have pointed out about the defects of roads construction everywhere in the State of Meghalaya. Now I would like to point out one road which is not found in the detailed estimates of Revenue and expenditure for the year 1972-73 and that is the road from 2nd Mile upto 6th Mile in Upper Shillong. I do not know whether the road belongs to the Assam Government or to the Meghalaya Government because for the last 2 or 3 years the soiling metal is lying on the side of the road but uptil now the work has not yet been done. Here also I find no money has been sanctioned for that particular road. So in this connection I would like to request the Government, if it is possible, to take up the work as early as possible. Another road which I want to point out is the road from Shillong to Gauhati. I do not know whether this road belongs to this Government of Meghalaya or the Government of Assam. This road is not well looked after nor well developed or improved and I would like to bring to the notice of the House that this road should be well looked after in future. Another point I would like to point out is that, as we all know, in the P.W.D. of the Government of Meghalaya here in Shillong, there are two P.W.D. Divisions, the Shillong-Division and the Building-Division but it is very strange to say that in these two Divisions is only one E.E.

Mr. Speaker :- What do  you mean by E.E.?

Shri Edward Kurbah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I mean the Executive Engineer, P.W.D. (R.&B.). So this is also one of the great defects which has created much confusion among the contractors. If the contractors go to the Building Division to meet the Executive Engineer, they could not find him because he has gone to the Shillong Division. To remove this difficulty Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think it is better for us, if it is possible, to have only one Division and if not, to provide at least 2 Executive Engineers for these two separate Divisions. With these few words I support the Cut Motion.

*Shri Blooming Shallam :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose the Cut Motion on the grounds put forward by the Members in the opposite camps. First of all, I cannot certainly agree with whole sale throwing of mud on the P.W.D. But I would touch only one point that is in regard to the registration of the contractors. I think we cannot blame the Public Works Department for this registration of contractors because as far as I can remember, if it happens elsewhere as in Jowai, there is a prescribed form where the intending persons should fill in. In this connection the representatives of the people also are to be blamed because on the certificate given by them the contractors have been registered. 

Shri H. Hadem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, not only the M.L.As but the M.D.Cs and gazetted officers are doing that!

Shri Blooming Shallam :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, another thing is with regard to allotment of contract works. Here also the P.W.D. cannot be blamed because allotment of works is done on tender system. The one whose tender is high gets the works and this is also being done according to schedule of rates. There is also a talk that contract work is done by somebody in the name of other persons and for this the P.W.D. cannot be blamed because it is not possible for them to know whether a particular person is a registered contractor or not. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the basis of the charges against the Government, I oppose the Cut Motion. It is my experience, as I am in charge of the District Council P.W.D., works, that some persons who are experienced contractors are executing contract works in the name of somebody and by doing so they have earned good earnings. So I would like to say that before we blame others we should look to ourselves first. On the other hand, I am very grateful to the P.W.D. for undertaking some good works especially the construction of Sutnga and Saipung road.

Mr. Speaker :- What the P.W.D. is doing in the District Council is not the concern of the House!

Shri H. Hadem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, this should be moved in the District Council Session and not here. 

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, Mr. Shallam is referring to the good works done by the Public Works Department particularly on this particular road which is covered by this Grant.    

Mr. Speaker :- The Government has entrusted the work to the District Council?

Shri B.B. Shallam :- Yes, Sir, there are three roads entrusted to the District Council of which I am incharge.

Mr. Speaker :- In fact, right from the very beginning you should have clarified that there is one road which the Government has entrusted the work to the District Council! Then I will allow.

Shri B.B. Shallam :- What I want to explain, Mr. Speaker, Sir, not only one road but three roads were entrusted to the District Council. One of the roads has been completed by us and we have transferred the other two to the P.W.D. and I am happy to say that the officer concerned who is the Superintending Engineer has visited the spot and the people there are happy for completion of this road and we are happy to continue the works as we have completed at least 11 k.m. I would also like to tell the House that because of the absence of communication and because there are few kilometre to be completed, the people have suffered badly. But I am happy and thanks to the Superintending Engineer who has gone and visited and seen for himself the condition of the roads. The people; are facing hardship due to non-completion of the road where the prices of some of the essential commodities are very high, say salt is sold at Rs.4 per k.g. and sugar at Rs.8 or Rs.9. per kg. and even the price of one egg costs Rs.1. So I feel that I must ventilate these grievances so that Government will be kept in awareness because if the Government is not seized of the situation then how will they be able to take steps. 

Mr. Speaker :- You have just now said that the Superintending Engineer has paid a visit so the Government will be in the know of things. 

Shri B.B. Shallam :- Yes, Sir.....

( Laughter )

        What I was trying to say is that the people working in the P.W.D. are taking steps for the completion of the roads. 

Mr. Speaker :- I think enough has been spoken on the Cut Motion.

Shri Kisto Mohon Roy Marbaniang (Mawsynram S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to speak a few words.

Mr. Speaker :-  I have allowed Shri Fuller Lyngdoh to speak.

Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh Mawnai (Mairang S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Cut Motion moved by the hon. Member from Pariong. Sir, though I have never registered myself as a contractor, I came to know that contract works had been allotted according tot he rate fixed by the Government. As the mover has already stated, there might be some corruption in the P.W.D. Why I said that, because I learnt that contract works had been given to those contractors who had submitted their tenders below the schedule rate 10 or 15 per cent below the schedule rate. So on this ground I said that there might be corruption; when Government have already fixed the rate, but when the contractor can work below the schedule rate then how will he be benefited from that contractor work. Another point, Sir, I have seen that the P.W.D. as it is at present seems as if it is lacking efficient Engineers. While saying this, I see that there were roads which have been surveyed and were estimated, say Rs.35,000 or something like that, how can it be, when the contractor was allotted with the work, the running bills would come to more than twice that estimated amount? So this shows that the engineers are quite inefficient in the work entrusted to them. 

Mr. Speaker :- The Engineers may be bad accountant also, and simply because they are bad accountant you cannot say they are inefficient.

Shri Fuller Lyngdoh Mawnai (Mairang S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, if they are quite efficient let them be bad accountant, as you have just now said, but there are Accountants in their office. When the engineers bring their works, these accountants will estimate the amount and calculate the work. Every Division and Subdivision has got its own Accountant. So with these few points, Sir, I support the Cut Motion. 

Mr. Speaker :- Mr. Kisto Mohon Roy.

Shri Kisto Mohon Roy Marbaniang (Mawsynram S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose the Cut Motion and I support the points which have been spoken by many of my friends on your right hand side. At the beginning one of the hon. Members has stated briefly and charged the P.W.D. that the work has been allotted to this or that contractor. But I want also to remind my hon. friend that the P.W.D. is an organised Department. Of course, they are having some defects because after all they are human beings as all of us are. But regarding allotment of work, the P.W.D., when the call for the tenders do not just allot the work to this or that contractor has been stated by my friend, but they go according to the scheduled rate which they have got and that after taking the comparative statement, then the work was allotted mostly to the lowest rate cum-efficiency. Therefore, it is not right to say that the P.W.D. are doing favour for A, B, or C. 

        Secondly, some friends also are saying that the estimated value of the work was 1 lakh and the bill was about 3 lakhs. I want specially the hon. Members of this august House, to know the fact as it is, specially in or hill areas. I would also like to point out that P.W.D. do not have any other Departments to help them in finding out the real estimates and they do not have any Soil Testing Department as they have in other parts of the country. So the P.W.D. in Meghalaya is not in a position to give a proper estimate, in the absence of this Department to test the soil, especially in the Hills. The Surface is earth only but if you dig the ground only a few feet you will find that it is rocky, and that more you dig you will find different types of rock within the same pit. That is why estimates given by the P.W.D. are  not definite or correct ones. I remember there was a Commission set up by the Central Government to study regarding the construction of roads in the border. When the Commission received the estimates as prepared by the P.W.D., they found that the actual work has been exceeded 3 to 4 times the original estimates. Then they advised to test the soil first and then prepare the estimates. But this could not be done as the P.W.D. in Meghalaya do not have the Soil Testing Department. As such, it is not possible for the Department to give a correct estimate. 

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna :- It seems that he is speaking as if he is a Minister. 

Mr. Speaker :- He is not a Minister. He is an hon. Member like you who can express his opinion! How can you seek a clarification?

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna :- We cannot seek, Sir, but we have heard that he will go to Europe every soon. 

Mr. Speaker :- You may also go.

Shri Kisto Mohon Roy Marbaniang :- I would like him also to accompany me to Europe. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Everybody will accompany.

Shri Kisto Mohon Roy Marbaniang :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, some of my friends also said that Meghalaya roads are much more inferior to the roads of Assam. In this connection, I very much disagree with my friends who gave such remarks. My hon. friends should know that Meghalaya has taken over these roads only a few months back. I would like my friends to compare the roads in Shillong Town with the roads outside Shillong. According to my experience, when I have the occasion to tour the district I have seen that the roads in Meghalaya are better than the roads which have been run and maintained by the Assam Government Specially it can be seen here in Shillong town the condition of the roads when these roads have been taken over by the Meghalaya Government; they were very bad, as my friends said. As my hon. friend from Nongtalang made a joking remark in this august House the other day, which I remember correctly when he said that he got splashed up with mud while walking on the road. Before I conclude my speech, Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I said, I oppose the cut motion moved by my friend from Nongtalang. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order, is it proper for hon. Member to continue chewing pant while speaking?

Mr. Speaker :- As far as possible, hon. Members should try to understand the meaning of parliamentary etiquette to be observed by the hon. Members while inside the House, I leave it to the good sense and responsibility of the hon. Members to uphold and dignity of the House. 

Shri Maham Singh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the cut motion. When we come actually to this Department of P.W.D., we find that as years go by they have become more and more inefficient. They are inefficient and very slack in execution of their work. Previously, this Department was very efficient, but as I said, as years go by, they become more and more inefficient. When we think of previous years' the road from Umtyngngar to Dawki was constructed in two years, time, and the road from Mawphlang to Balat was completed in two year and in this way the Department had been promptly and efficiently executing the works. Then when we come to the present days, we find that the widening of the Cherrapunji Road for example, 17 miles of the road from Umtngar to Cherrapunji, they could not complete in 6 years' time. It seems that the engineers or the technical staff will never be able to complete this road before their retirement. 

( Laughter )

So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, it has become very difficult to go along this road now. Yesterday, I have been to Cherrapunji and it became impossible to ply small cars on the road especially from Umtyngngar to Cherrapunji. You must either have to go by a jeep or some other study car. 

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Because of widening!

Shri Maham Singh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is widening of the road but for over the years long could not complete the work as I have said. They could not complete this small work of widening, as they are callous. Whether a scheme is taken up or not whether a work is efficiently done, whether a work is executed or not they are completely callous. There is one road-Mawkdoh to Mawbeh. Proposals were there for the last 6 years. Sanction was also there previously for taking up this road but uptil now they have not started the work. I have seen, Sir, that a provision of Rs.25,000 has been allotted for this road. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to bring to the notice of the Government that even here in the suburbs and near about Shillong there are places which need roads very badly like a road from Umlyngka to Nongumlong, Mawtawar to Diengpasoh. All these have not been taken up uptil now. In this way schemes were there. Mr. Speaker, Sir, but whether these schemes are taken up or not they are completely indifferent as I said before. As years go by, they have become more and more inefficient. With these few words I support the cut motion.

Shri Onward Layswell Nongtdu (Sutnga S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker' Sir, in supporting the cut motion I have only three points to place before the House. Firstly about the construction of the G.S. Road. Last year, I think work orders had been issued by the Assam Government to a number of contractors, but their orders have been cancelled by the Meghalaya Government. These contractors have not been able to receive their bills and their security deposits. I would suggest, Sir, that since the work orders have been cancelled by the Government it should also take the responsibility to see that payment of their dues be made and that the works in this particular road, when tenders will be called for, preference, should be given to those contractors whose work orders have been cancelled.

        Secondly, about compensation. There are few cases of compensation which have not been paid. Information were received from the office of the Chief Engineer, P.W.D., Meghalaya that the cases were finalised during 1970-71 and 1971-72 and I believe it is a fact. But compensations have not been paid on the land acquired by the Government particularly in one road, i.e., The Sutnga road. It also appears that the compensation money sanctioned for this purpose has disappeared somewhere. There are people who have not been able to receive their land compensation even now. 

        Thirdly, it is in the light of what the hon. member from Jowai said about the construction of Sutnga - Saipung Road; that I pleaded in this very House that the work should  not be entrusted to the District Council, because this roads is a way difficult road to be constructed. Now, I would request the Government to take the responsibility to construct this big road which is a very important road for the benefit of the people of different localities. With these few words, I support the cut motion. 

Shri Lewis Bareh (Rymbai S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the cut motion as moved by the hon. member. So many defects have been pointed out in connection with the working of the P.W.D. especially in the matter of allotment of work and also for the delay in payment of compensation to the land owners. Sir, in the last two days I had been to the flood affected areas in my constituency. I have received complaints from the people that they cannot allow for the construction of the road due to non- payment of compensation for the entire lands which have been given to the Government. 

        Regarding the opening of one border road which has been taken up by the P.W.D. for survey since 5 or 6 years ago. This project for construction of road is from Borghat upto Sonapur to meet Jowai Badarpur road. Survey for this road had been done by the P.W.D. But now I do not see this road in the list of roads to be taken over by the Government. As the road is to be run along the border of Bangladesh it has to pass through many gorges and rivers in order to bring it upto Sonapur. So this scheme is requested to be taken up immediately. I would like to say that the people will be benefited from this road. There is also some mention about the efficiency of P.W.D. of Meghalaya. There is one scheme by name Sohiong and that estimate has been earmarked which comes to about Rs.5 lakhs and the construction of the road has been taken up by the block, but the Block fund is limited. So we have been requesting the P.W.D. to take up the construction of the road. In fact the road construction has not been started and also the work orders have not yet been given to the contractor.....(Bell Rang)... and yet this expenditure, it appears, has been shown in the column showing that the progress to of the work has come about Rs.50,000. With these few words, I support the cut motion and resume my seat, Sir.   

Shri Jor Manik Syiem :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose the cut motion moved by my friend from the other side of the House. I did not intend to speak but as one of the members has referred to certain roads which are in my constituency, I think it is my duty also to say something on this cut motion. Admitting that there are some shortcomings in the execution works by the P.W.D., we should also bear in mind the natural elements and the conditions of the roads in these Hills. The Cherra Road, Sir, has been always in this condition. The hills sides are very unstable. Before some years the road is quite alright. But when the Cement Factory was opened it has to be widened and the road-sides have had to be touched on the Hills sides. It is quite natural that there have been land-slides at every point from Mawkdok upto Lad Mawphlang. I do not think the whole blame goes to the Department because nature also has played its part. Now, regarding the Dympep-Mawbeh road, I agree with my friend, Mr. Maham Singh, that this road should have been completed by now. I do not know what is the reason that this road has not yet been taken up. It may be due to the land problem, I am not yet aware of it. But I think the allotment of Rs.25,000 is nothing for the construction of road even for a mile. Now, Sir, I would like to draw the attention of Government to one road, a very good road and the old political road of late David Scott which runs from near Mawbeh to Lad Mawphlang. This road requires some soling and metalling to make it motorable. So Sir, I would like to place these facts before the Government to get certain clarifications.

Shri M. Reidson Momin (Dadenggiri S.T.) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the first instance I rise to oppose the Cut Motion moved by Mr. H.S. Lyngdoh. In his speech he stated that the P.W.D. has not done anything up to satisfaction. But I should say that it is not true, particularly in case of Garo Hills P.W.D. This department in Garo Hills has shown a commendable performance. In this connection I would like to cite one or two examples. Previously the road from Tikrikilla to Goalpara on the Tura Goalpara road was under the Goalpara Division, and condition was very bad then. But when this portion was taken over by the Government of Meghalaya there has been a lot of improvement and from this I can say that the P.W.D. in Meghalaya is functioning quite efficiently.

        Then it has been alleged that in Khasi Hills our own people are not getting the opportunity to register their names as contractors. But the condition at Tura is quite different, as we do not have any difficulty in getting the names registered. I have personally recommended many names of my known people who are capable of taking the contracts and their names have been registered. 

        Then Sir, the hon. Member has also pointed out that there is some partiality in respect of certain group of contractors. In this respect I would like to say that it has been found that certain group of contractors who were working for a number of years may have been found to be capable of undertaking various contract works. So it is wise to entrust these people with those jobs. So the question of partiality does not arise and for that matter Government cannot be blamed.

        Then another Member has alleged that our local contractors are going every day to P.W.D. Office for getting allotment of some contract works. But in practice the tenders are invited and works are allotted to tenderers who quoted the lowest rate and to the reliable persons after a considerable gap of time and the question of going every day does not come in. 

        Then one of the hon. Members has also complained that at Shillong the repair works are done promptly and properly but in the far flung areas the roads are blocked by big boulders and land slides for 2/3 days because there is none to look after them. But the picture is quite different in Garo Hills. There, some Overseers and S.D.O's. are posted and stationed after every 15 or 20 kilometres and they are responsible for all these minor repair works where ever necessary. However, Mr. Dy. Speaker, Sir, while opposing the Cut Motion I would like to request the Government to see that the road Tura-Phulbari Hills road should be blacktopped which serves as a link road between Tura and Phulbari during the flood time. With these few words I resume my seat. 

Shri William Cecil R. Marak (Selsella) :- While supporting this Cut Motion I would have been very glad if the statement given by hon. Member from Garo Hill had been correct. What he says is not rue. In this connection, I would like to say, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that in Garo Hills also our local candidates are not getting the opportunity to register their names as contractors. As regards the working of the P.W.D. in Garo Hills, I am on quite in agreement with the mover of the Cut Motion and to say that it is not at all satisfactory. The road from Garobadha to Selsella is in a very bad condition and uptil now the P.W.D. has not taken up that road although, the then Deputy Speaker, now the Minister of State in-charge of P.W.D. during his visit to Selsella in 1970 in course of his public speech said that the Government had sanctioned for construction of Benabazar - Selsella road. Therefore, I want a clarification from the Government as to whether they have abandoned that plan. With these few words I support the Cut Motion. 

Shri Plansing Marak (Kherapara S.T.) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose the Cut Motion moved by the hon. member. Firstly, I am satisfied that in Garo Hills local candidates are getting the contracts. Secondly, the P.W.D. is undertaking the construction of roads in Garo Hills quite satisfactorily.

        Thirdly, P.W.D. gives more contract works to the local people and all these things are quite satisfactory and I am quite satisfied with the progress of work that is being done by the Department. But I would like to request the Government to rectify the following things (i) more employment opportunities should be given in the P.W.D. offices. During this stage if you go to the different P.W.D. offices in different Subdivision you will find only very few Garo are given chance of appointment and in many offices the local Garo workers are totally absent as for example in offices at Rongara P.W.D. Garo employees are totally absent, beginning from the Chowkidar right up to the Head of the office. So, Sir, I would like to request the Department, through you, to give some employment to the local people. I would also like to request Government that there should be no competition between Garo and Marwari contractors from outside. Now, Sir, I can give an example by mentioning names, and I think it will not be harmful, and if Millionnaire Agarwals would compete with me I think I will not get the contract because he has got many lakhs of rupees and I have only a thousand. So, Sir, in this connection I would simply request the Government to make certain reservations for the tribal contractors and also that the Government should not allow outsiders of Meghalaya to enroll themselves (Voices - 'Yes, 'Yes').

Bell rang )

        So these are my suggestions, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, and with these few words, I oppose the Cut Motion.  

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Now I would request the Hon'ble Chief Minister to reply. 

*Capt. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, some of the hon. friends from the opposite side have had occasions to complaint that yesterday, in course of my reply to various points, I had given a very long sermon. But I do not know whether it was a long sermon or simply a duty on my part to reply to the very important points raised in this House and to give an indication as to how our Government is moving towards the socialistic pattern of society. Actually, I did not intend to make a very long speech. In fact, I find a number of points raised in this particular discussion through the cut motion have been repeated by the hon. Speakers and certain replies given to these charges and also to the various suggestions given to the Government through this august House. Well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the mover of the cut motion, Mr. H.S. Lyngdoh, has charged that there is enough corruption in the P.W.D. Well, I am definite that you will agree with  me that the Government cannot take effective measures unless such allegations are supported by specific instances supported by certain evidence. It is very easy to say that there is corruption I myself, as the Chief Minister and also as the Minister in-charge of P.W.D. may think that there may be some corruption. It is apparent. But unless and until those who are in the know of things are prepared to come forward with specific cases against certain particular officers it would not be possible for the Government to rectify this particular ill. Therefore, whenever there is such commission and such allegations are brought forward I would have expected the hon. Member to give specific instances and if he considers it will not be desirable to cite specific instances to this august House, he should have had occasion to lodge such a complaint with the competent authorities outside the House. We are here together, either on this side or that side, to serve the people through the various Departments and the different Departments are charged with different functions. As I said earlier, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there may be scope, there may be possibility for certain personnel, including the officers, to practise corruption. But more suggestions through the cut motions or through some general discussions will not keep the Government to correct this practice. And it is only, as I said earlier, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when specific instances are brought that it would be possible for us to bring the persons involved to book. In fact, I used to receive a number of allegations against a number of officers of different Departments and after I have assumed my office as Chief Minister I have taken prompt action to refer these allegations to the Anti-Corruption Department. I have received back the reports and many allegations have been found to be baseless. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would, therefore, request the hon. Members, through you, not to use this House, this august House, only for such discussion which will not result in effective measures, otherwise it may give some publicity only to the gallery. Therefore, Sir, the Government and all hon. members of this House and the leaders outside must jointly have a firm determination to serve our people honestly, sincerely and effectively. How to proceed in this way, how it would be possible for the Government to function in this way, how is it possible for the Government to consider these things unless and until everyone of us is really determined to help the administration to bring about such services to our people. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, (the Speaker, at this very moment, took the chair from the Deputy Speaker), I mean, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the constant change sometimes makes one commit a couple of mistakes (Laughter).  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can assure the hon. Members who have any knowledge of corrupt practices by some officers that if they can bring specific charges against those corrupt officers I shall take prompt action against them. I would have expected the hon. Members who have leveled these charges against the Department to bring specific instances against some of the officers whom they think are indulging in corrupt practices and if no action is taken by the Government against them then it would be justified on the part of the hon. Members to level these charges against the Government. If I had the occasion to take action on the complaint against ABC, and if up till now the Government has  not taken any action the Government would have been exposed. But Mr. Speaker, Sir, to my knowledge, I have not received any specific allegation excepting the talk that there are corrupt practices amongst the officer. 

        Then, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the second point was about registration of the contractors. It has been charged that in some cases, the entire members of the family have been allowed to be registered as contractors as pointed out by my senior colleague, Mr. Hoover Hynniewta. I do not know whether it will be against the fundamental rights to deny such registration to all the members of the family. In fact, there is the tendency that a son of a businessman is inclined to work in that particular profession and he will try to learn that particular job from which he drives particular talents from the parents. We have been also discussing the problem of unemployment. It will not be possible for our Government in spite of its best desire to ask all our young people to go in for only one type of education and to ensure them employment. On the Government side, it would be better to ensure that the people should take up various other avocations of life and they must seek various means of earning their livelihood. I agree to the observation that all members of the family have been allowed in matters of allotment of works if all the works are given only to one family, but that is also subject to certain procedure. The hon. Members are aware that this is perfectly correct and that there is no loop-hole but certain procedure is followed in settling the work. As hon. members are quite aware that we are still following the P.W.D. code of the Assam P.W.D. code and that very same code is being followed in Meghalaya now. A time will come when it will be possible for us to adopt our own code, but I would request the hon. members to have a little patience with us. This Government has started functioning only 2 years now. So please allow us to gain experience and see whether the present code will have to be modified and simplified or undertake certain changes which will suit the local conditions. Then there will be instructions of the Government that there should be fair distribution of work so that not only members members of the family will have a chance of getting employment, but others also may have chance in it. Mr. Speaker, Sir, there has been a complaint that some contractors have been given work in different Subdivisions and thereby there has been favouritism. Well, if there is no specific information on this point, it will not be possible for me to say that it is correct or to admit that it is correct. At the same time, unless and until I am in opposition to go into the merit of each case, it will be possible to say that it has been unfair on the part of the Government to allow some men to have the contract works in different Subdivisions. One important condition should be attached in the matter of allotment of work apart from giving an opportunity to our local people. We must also be satisfied that the Government is able to keep and execute her powers in all these matters efficiently and promptly. Here we are put into a dilemma- we want that the road should be constructed as soon as possible, and at the the same time, we also want to accommodate our own people. We must strike a balance on this. In fact, I have given my instructions to my officers that as far as possible, local contractors should be given preference in allotment of works and that there should be no partially in allotting works especially to those weaker sections. It would be unfair to say that no reservation is made for the local people in certain categories of work. But it will also be unfair to say that no outsiders should be allowed to have reservation for contract works. I will give an example here. The Government of Assam had given the contract for construction of a bridge over the river Simsang to one firm as no local firm could take up the work, but firm also failed to complete the work for a number of years. So when Meghalaya come into being, we have asked the Chief Engineer to find a rival firm and we had a rival firm and the bridge will be constructed shortly. That is why, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I may tell you, in this particular problem we have to strike a balance. We have to see that the work goes with speed. Today there has been a remark from my senior colleague, Mr. Maham Sing when he said that as the years passed, the Department has become more and more inefficient. I am not prepared to accept that view because I am confident that the progress is much more satisfactory now than it was before. But I would also agree with the hon. Members that if it is possible, we must expedite the progress of construction. Whatever progress, whatever speed is at present, the programme should be further strengthened. Well, Mr. Speaker, Sir, as usual, the hon. Members while participating in the discussions has had the occasion to suggest improvement of a number of existing roads and also taking up of a number of new roads and they complained that in a particular constituency, not a single road exists, and that Government should have thought about taking up new road programmes. Here, I would request them, through you, Sir, to give a definite advice to the Government in this matter realising limitation of funds in the Second Five Year Plan period under this particular Department. We have got only 12 crores for the roads and out of this, about 2 crores were spent in the first year of the Plan period by the Government of Assam. We are left with the remaining amount of less than 10 crores. It will be a correct measures on the part of the Government either in the first instance to complete these roads which have been taken up for construction and improvement within this amount or to go slow and go for the new roads. If I am asked to give that advice, my definite advice would be to complete those roads which we have started first and bring the real benefit to the people. If we simply construct only a portion of this road and a portion of that road because of the pressure, because of the demand of the hon.  Members or of the public then only in name you write A to B road, C to D road E to F road so and so, but none of these roads would be of real service to the people. In fact, when I was in the Garo Hills District as Chief Executive Member of the District Council, our local leaders were called upon by the Chief Engineer to discuss the road programme. We are always on one point, that is not to separate to much of our needs. Let us see which are the roads of prior importance which can be accommodated within the amount. In this way we always try to go for a limited number of roads. Therefore, it will not be possible for me to make any commitment within this Plan period, but the suggestions which were placed by the various hon. Members through the discussions can be accompanied within this Plan Programme. But these can be considered for the subsequent Plan and that also according to priority. I think it will do good before we decide on the road programme, in future if there would be some sort of forum where the important of certain roads can be given proper consideration and may decide for their inclusion in the Plan Programme. Well, generally speaking, construction of roads should be based on some very important consideration: No.1. It must be of importance from the administrative point of view. No.2. It must be of importance for the development of the State as a whole either for development of industries, agriculture, power and some other development programmes because without these roads no development programme can be taken up. Let us taken this power development programme which is very very important. I will give an example of the Thermal Plant at Nangalbibra which is only for 5 MW. It took years and years to complete the work because there was no road to carry the heavy machineries. Now in the same area, there is a huge deposit of lime, coal clay and so on and so forth. We cannot talk about any industry based on these raw materials unless we can build the road. So as far as improvement of roads is concerned, all these factors must be taken into consideration before we further decide which particular road should be taken up. But I agree that apart from that, there should be a category of roads that means feeder roads and village roads. We must also be able to take up these roads. If possible, therefore, some local agencies through the District Councils or through the Blocks or some other agencies should see that the work is concentrated on some important roads in order to make proper progress. From the past experience so far gathered, the works on these roads were not very satisfactory. Mr. Maham Singh, (who is not here) now, has pointed out the Shillong- Cherrapunji road. He had the occasion to go yesterday, I am told, to Cherrapunji. Well, he said, that it is not fit for even a small car. Naturally, that should be when a lot of widening work is going on. As the road is narrow, it will be really difficult for vehicles to pass. It is not only in this particular road but you will see that in any road in the hills these things are prevailing. Because we have to build roads by side cuttings along the hill slopes where there are deep gorges which make the repair works on the road very difficult. Naturally, there is bound to be some obstructions along the roads but in order to make these roads dependable or to make them more specious we have to make a thorough survey and proper plan. We do not take up any road without any survey. One of the hon. Members has mentioned about the gate at Bhoilymbong. But so far my information goes this gate was constructed by the villagers but they have not received any compensation for their land. So far as the Public Works Department is concerned this question of land compensation has been sent to the Deputy Commissioner. But the Deputy Commissioner referred to certain procedure of Land Requisition Act under which compensation cannot be given for those lands, cannot be paid. Well, Mr. Speaker, Sir, in fact we have got many complaints regarding non-payment of compensation. I agree that there has been delay in this regard but it was due to the shortage of officers in these departments. This particular class of officers, namely, revenue officers have to be appointed. They are known as Sub-Collectors were trained in this particular job. Almost all the tribal officers of the Assam Civil Service Class II, who were known as Subdivisional Officers, have been taken from Assam. There is still need for some more officers. So, unless and until we are in a position to make new appointments through our own agencies, it is going to place the Government in a critical position. But so far as this particular Grant is concerned, even if we are in a position to appoint these new personnel in the Meghalaya Civil Service Class II, they will not be able to handle this particular job unless they undergo certain training. Therefore, we have to see what remedial measures could be taken in this regard. We will have to request the Government of Assam for more officers on deputation but that also, may be difficult now because now we going to take up the case of those officers who will be made permanent in the Meghalaya Secretariat. Sir, I would request the hon. Members to appreciate these difficulties. In this connection, I had the occasion to inform this House specially, in Khasi Hills and Jaintia Hills that construction of roads, is very much a handicapped because we have got difficulties with regard to land. If I am correct, in Garo Hills, except patta lands, other lands required for the construction of roads through the fruit growing area or through the homestead are given without any compensation because roads are built for the benefit of the people. If we pay compensation for every inch of land it will involve a huge amount. But in the interest of public service, I think we should avoid these expenditure. At present, only those who are helpless, some kind of compensation should be given and the Government should bear such expenditure. The road construction in this State is rather expensive. I would like to cite certain instances to illustrate my point namely the hilly nature and the topography of the different areas of the State and all that. Suppose we pay land compensation for every inch of land with the limited fund at our disposal for this particular work included under the Border Road Development Programme, I do not know whether we shall be able to fall in line with the All India figure. Secondly, this question of road construction in the hilly tracks of ours, I think, matter is to be examined by the public leaders and to see what steps can be taken in this regard. I would also impress upon the hon. members to consider it properly. One of the reasons put forward by the hon. Members is that there is a lot of corruption in the actual payment of the bills to the contractors, that is not correct. Sometimes, even the running bill is found to have exceeded the tender amount that may be so. Well, Sir, the procedure, as pointed out by Mr. K.M. Roy, is that after alignment is done, rough estimate and approximate estimate is entirely done by the Public Works Department. Nobody knows what is hiding inside.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of information, I want to point out that I do not mean the running bills or the final bills. 

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am replying to the points raised. You see payment of bills actually is made after taking the actual measurement. In the first instance approximate estimates are prepared and on the basis of these estimates tenders are called for but payment of bills is made on the basis of actual measurement taken. Therefore, bills are prepared on the basis of measurement. In some cases even the running bill exceeds the tendered amount or the origin estimates. I do not say that there is no scope for some mistakes, there may be. But I cannot agree that, only because of the fact that actual bill payable to the contractors exceeds the original estimates that there is scope for corruption. Mention has also been made about the Shillong-Gauhati road. This is the National Highway No.40 and this was taken over. 

Prof. M.N. Majaw (Mawhati S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to point out that according to Rule 144, clause 3, the sitting of the House for the day is upto 5.00 p.m. But now the time is over.

Mr. Speaker :- I know my duty and thank you very much. Now I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.3,22,03,600 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "50- Public Works, etc. (Excluding Establishment and Tools and Plants).

( The Motion was adopted and Grant is passed )

        The question is that an amount of Rs.1,93,200 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "71- Miscellaneous- I- Expenditure on Account of State Prisoners and Detenus, etc".

( The Motion was carried and Demand passed ) 

        The question is that an amount of Rs.35,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "71- Miscellaneous- VII- Miscellaneous and Unforeseen Charges".

(Demand was passed)

        The question is that an amount of Rs.2,62,300 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "71- Miscellaneous- VIII- Civil Defence".

(Demand was passed)

        The question is that an amount of Rs.100 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "77- Extra ordinary Charges".

( The demand was passed )

        The question is that an amount of Rs.2,87,41,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "103.- Capital Outlay on Public Works outside the Revenue Account".

( The demand was passed )

        Now the question is that an amount of Rs.66,71,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "50-  Public Works Establishment and Tools and Plants".

( The demand was passed )

        Now the question is that an amount of Rs.2,00,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "Q- Loans and advances, etc., [III- Loans to Autonomous District Council, etc."].

( The demand was passed )

        Now the question is that an amount of Rs.300 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "Q- Loans and Advances, etc., -[VIII- Educational Loans "].

( The demand was passed )

         Now the question is that an amount of Rs.5,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "Q- Loans and Advances, etc., [XVI- Miscellaneous  Loans and Advances]".

( The demand was passed )

        Now the question is that an amount of Rs.29,59,100 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "39- Miscellaneous, Social and Developmental Organisation- Other Miscellaneous Organisation- VI- Directorate of Social Welfare, etc.

( The demand was passed )

        Now the question is that an amount of Rs.2,19,400 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "9- Land Revenue".

( The demand was passed )

        Now the question is that an amount of Rs.44,700 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "19- General Administration- IV- Director of Land Records". 

( The demand was passed )

        Now the question is that an amount of Rs.2,07,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "26- Miscellaneous Departments III- Weights and Measure".

( The Demand was passed )

        Now the question is that an amount of Rs.1,14,56,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "31- Agriculture".

( The demand was passed )

        30. Mr. Speaker :- The question is that an amount of Rs.6,58,400 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "31- Agriculture-II- Fisheries".

( The demand was passed )

        31. The question is that an amount of Rs.7,41,400 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "32- Rural Development".

( The demand was passed )

        32. The question is that an amount of Rs.37,99,100 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "33- Animal Husbandry".

( The demand was passed )

        33. The question is that an amount of Rs.16,58,300 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "34- Cooperation".

( The demand was passed )

        37. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,20,25,400 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "37- I- Community Development Projects, National Extension Service and Local Development Works".

( The demand was passed )

        54. The question is that an amount of Rs.15,82,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "39- Miscellaneous, Social and Developmental Organisation Miscellaneous- XII- Dairy Development".

( The demand was passed )

        58. The question is that an amount of Rs.8,12,500 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "64- Famine Relief".

( The demand was passed )

        The question is that an amount of Rs.31,70,500 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "70- Forests-II- Soil Conservation".

( The demand was passed )

        76. The question is that an amount of Rs.18,55,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "96- Capital Outlay on Industrial and Economic Development- II- Investment in Co-operative Societies".

( The demand was passed )

        83. The question is that an amount of Rs.3,60,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "Q- Loans and Advances, etc., (II- Agricultural Loans, etc.").

( The demand was passed )

        86. The question is that an amount of Rs.499,400 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "Q-Loans and Advances, etc., [V- Loans to Co-operative Societies".]

( The demand was passed )

        90. The question is that an amount of Rs.2,00,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "G-Loans and Advances, etc. [IX.- Tea Garden Land Utilisation Loans, G.M.F. Loans, Fishery Development Loans, etc..]

( The demand was passed )

        3. Now, the question is that an amount of Rs.260,900 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "10- State Excise Duties".

( The Demand was passed )

        5. Now, the question is that an amount of Rs.3,32,500 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "12- Sales Tax and 13- Other Taxes and Duties".

( The Demand was passed )

        6. The question is that an amount of Rs.12,400 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "14- Stamps".

( The Demand was passed )

        7. The question is that an amount of Rs.15,100 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "15- Registration Fees".

( The Demand was passed )

        14. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,18,900 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "19- General Administration- V- Local Fund, Audit Establishment and Accounts Offices".

( The Demand was passed )

        15. The question is that an amount of Rs.4,26,200 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "21- Administration of Justice".

( The Demand was passed )

        18. The question is that an amount of Rs.2,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "26- Miscellaneous Department-I- National Savings Organisation".

( The Demand was passed )

        43. Now, the question is that an amount of Rs.5,89,700 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "39- Miscellaneous Social and Developmental Organisation - Statistics-I- Directorate of Statistics".

( The Demand was passed )

        45. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,26,700 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "19- Miscellaneous Social and Developmental Organisation- Other Miscellaneous Organisation-III- Planning Organisation".

( The Demand was passed )

        59. The question is that an amount of Rs.19,500 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "65- Pension and Other Retirement Benefits, etc".

( The Demand was passed )

        60. The question is that an amount of Rs.44,63,800 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "68- Stationery and Printing".

( The Demand was passed )

        44. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,500 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "39- Miscellaneous Social and Developmental Organisation- Statistics-II- Vital Statistics Rain- gauge, etc".

( The Demand was passed )

        64. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,49,500 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "71- Miscellaneous -II- Donations for Charitable Purposes, etc.".

( The Demand was passed )

        81. The question is that an amount of Rs.50,00,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "125- Appropriation to Contingency Fund".

( The Demand was passed )

        93. The question is that an amount of Rs.22,00,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "Q- Loans and advances, etc. [XII- Loans to Electricity Board".]

( The Demand was passed )

        94. The question is that an amount of Rs.8,05,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "Q- Loans and Advances, etc. [XIII. Advances to Government Servants, etc.]".

( The Demand was passed )

        26. The question is that an amount of Rs.68,31,500 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "29- Medical".

( The Demand was passed )

        27. The question is that an amount of Rs.57,34,400 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "30- Public Health -I- Public Health".

( The Demand was passed )

        28. The question is that an amount of Rs.11,61,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "30- A- Family Planning".

( The Demand was passed )

        39. The question is that an amount of Rs.26,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "38- Labour and Employment-I- Labour".

( The Demand was passed )

        40. The question is that an amount of Rs.12,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "38- Labour and employment- II- Factories".

( The Demand was passed )

        41. The question is that an amount of Rs.5,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "38- Labour and Employment -III- Inspectorate of Steam Boilers".

( The Demand was passed )

        42. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,48,700 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "38- Labour and Employment -IV- Employment and Training".

( The Demand was passed )

        Now I put the question. The question is that an amount of Rs.15,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "71- Miscellaneous -III- Grants in-aid, Contribution.".

( The Demand was passed )

        I put the question. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,51,39,900 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "71- Miscellaneous -V- Expenditure on Displaced Persons.".

( The Demand was passed )

        I put the question. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,40,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "Q- Loans and Advances, etc., - [I- Loans to Municipal Corporation and Municipalities]".

( The Demand was passed )

        I put the question. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1973 for the administration of the head "Q- Loans and Advances, etc. [VII.- Loans to Displaced Persons]".

( The Demand was passed )


Placing of of Paper by Minister

         Let us pass on to Item No.3 of today's List of Business and at the same time, let the Bill be distributed to all hon. Members. I hope all the hon. Members are in possession of the Bill. But before I request the Hon'ble. Finance Minister to introduce the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. I) Bill, 1972, let him indicate that he wishes to place on the Table of the House the addendum to the Budget. 

*Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the other day, some hon. Members have pointed out the mistakes in the classification and the Hon'ble Minister of Industries has admitted the printing mistakes in classification. Meanwhile, we found that the mistakes were due to the fact that in the year 1970-71 our Government have not organised the Directorate of Industries which is responsible for checking the figures in the A.G.'s Office. The Accountant General's Office took the figures only from the Treasury and computed their figures District-wise or State wise. But the hon. Members will see that from 1970-71 we have organised the Directorate and everything has been in order. When this has been pointed out, the Government took the question with the Accountant General and he was so kind enough to correct all these figures and these figures have been corrected and completed and I am now laying them before the House. 

Mr. Speaker :- So in the meantime, the hon. Members will get a copy of each of the correction. 

Prof. Martin N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, since I was the Member who pointed out the mistakes in Cottage Industries, I also want to know whether the financial memorandum has been suitably corrected.

Mr. Speaker :- As I have pointed out the other day, the misprinting and mis-calculation of the Actuals of 1970-71 do not required any financial memorandum. The financial memorandum is required for the present Budget for 1972-73 only.

Prof. Martin N. Majaw :- I am afraid, Mr. Speaker, Sir, my point has not been caught, that is, the Memorandum on the Budget Estimates is a complete document in itself to be placed on the Table of the House and includes the mistakes, I hope the addendum covers this also. 

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have stated that the mistakes pertaining to the matter that has been raised by the hon. Members, have been corrected. 

Mr. Speaker :- I remember I gave a ruling the other day that so far as this particular item is concerned, late the Finance Minister give the addendum at the appropriate time and now he has actually placed it before the House. In the meantime before the Finance Minister raises to beg leave to introduce the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. I) Bill, 1972, I will read a message received from the Governor. 

        "In exercise of the powers, conferred by Clause (1) of article 207 of the Constitution of India, I, Braj Kumar Nehru, Governor of Meghalaya hereby recommend to the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly the introduction of Meghalaya Appropriation (No. I) Bill, 1972. 

Dated Raj Bhavan, 

Sd/- Braj Kumar Nehru

Shillong

Governor.

The 26th June, 1972".


THE MEGHALAYA APPROPRIATION (No. I) BILL, 1972.   

        I now request the Finance Minister to introduce the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. I) Bill, 1972. 

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg leave to introduce the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. I) Bill, 1972?

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta (Nongkhlaw S.T.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, today just at this moment we are having a number of correction of the mistakes incorporated in the budget. 

Mr. Speaker :- I think you have misunderstood. This was a correction of the classification of the actuals for 1970-71 and not in the budget. 

*Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- Even so, Sir, in the morning also or in the afternoon,- I am not sure about the time - corrections were made on the floor of the House by the members of the Treasury Bench and they were unanimous that this was due to Mr. Printing mistake and the Minister in-charge who is also in-charge of Printing has graciously taken upon himself the responsibility of all these printing errors. I would not like to go, Sir, into the question of Legislative Assembly responsibility for these printing errors but I fail to understand that there are so many in the budget and I feel it will be to the interest of the Government the prestige and dignity of this august House that we should always be supplied with correct figures. Sir, only the other day we heard that the Finance Minister was canvassing for the support in this House to press upon the Government of India to write of the loan that is due to be paid to the tune of more than 4 crores and I believe it was the unanimous feeling in this House that the Government of India should write off this loan. But we do not know, Sir, how much and to what extent our State is indebted. We do not know the entire loan due to be paid by the State Government or what is the installment due to be paid during the current financial year. We have no information whatsoever on this. You will agree with me, Sir, that this is the most fundamental aspect of the Government activities, and we should have expected that the Government should take first the available opportunity to enlighten this House as to the extent of its indebtedness to the Government of India. But upto this moment, Sir, we are completely in the dark since the presentation of the budget. May I request, through you, Sir, the Finance Minister to enlighten the House about the extent of the debt due to be paid by our new State. The interest, of course, was given Rs.1 crore 71 lakhs. 

Mr. Speaker :- What I want to ask the hon. Member is whether he wants to oppose leave or he wants a clarification. If you want a clarification that will come at a later stage when the bill is introduced. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- I do not oppose the leave, Sir.

Mr. Speaker :- Now I put the question before the House. The question is that leave be granted to introduce the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. I) Bill, 1972?

        The motion is adopted and leave is granted. 

        Now, I request the Finance Minister to introduce the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. I) Bill, 1972?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to introduce the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. I) Bill, 1972.

Mr. Speaker :- The Motion moved. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I spoke in the wrong time and I may be allowed to continue my speech. As I said, the amount of interest due to be paid this year was given as 1 crore 71 lakhs but the total debt was not given Sir, we are very much alarmed by the huge deficit that will have to be covered. The Finance Minister will need all the help of financial wizards at his disposal to cover this huge deficits. The first step that will have to be taken by him is to resort to tapping all our own resources. In the budget speech we have heard him saying about the need to all our own resources but the Finance Minister has not yet taken this House into confidence as to how these resource will be tapped. I suggest a few of them, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The first step is imposition of indirect tax, like imposition of purchase tax on a number of articles, a number of foodstuff, and cash crops that are being exported the State to other parts of the country Government can easily impose purchase tax in these and I believe much more money will be available to the Government. The minimum would not be less than 4 lakh of rupees, I have no knowledge, but I believe that it will amount to several lakhs of rupees.

        I over-heard the other day, Mr. Speaker, Sir, somewhere in this town of Shillong that the Government is talking in terms of reviving horse racing at least for the purpose of attracting tourists to this part of the country.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- May I intervene, Sir? Horse racing in Shillong is being run by a Club and not by the Government.

Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- I know, I know, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that the Chief Minister has indicated his willingness and his desire that horse racing should be revived. He is prepared to give financial grant for the revival of horse racing and this will be also a source of revenue to us as Government can impose tax. I remember, Sir, during the hey day of the Assam Government not less than 2 or 3 lakh of rupees was derived from this head as a source of revenue. 

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- On a point of clarification, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to tell the hon. Member that it is not a fact that I have made a definite commitment that horse racing should be revived and that assistance would be made by the Government. Government may consider it but there is no definite indication of what the hon. Member has said and I would not agree with him in this connection. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- I got it from one responsible officer and it is very much in the mind of the Government. If this comes in the House I would be glad to give my full-throated support to this idea. 

        The next source of revenue, I think, is road transport. The road transport from Shillong to Gauhati. During the days of Assam Government, I remember that 40 lakh of rupees was obtained as a source of revenue. I believe, Sir, that if we run our administration efficiently in the State Road transport. I think several lakhs of rupees will come to the State Exchequer as contribution and I think a time has come, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that this unhappy marriage between the Meghalaya Government and the Assam Government on State Transport should be divorced. As far as this unhappy marriage is concerned, it should be divorced, the earlier the better (Applause).

        Another source of revenue, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the construction of markets by the State Government. This also will be a very good source of income. At present we are all aware that right in the middle of this town there is a sweeper colony. If the sweeper colony can be removed, and I think it should be removed in the interest of beauty, in the interest of sanitation of the town. This sweeper colony should be removed and in its place a beautiful market can be constructed. 

        And I assure the Finance Minister that Government will get a lot of income from this market. Another source is the Cement Company. I do not know whether this Company is sufficiently run and also I do not know whether any income is obtained from this Company. But I believe the new expansion programme with the proper management of the local people a great source of revenue will come to this State from the Company. The other is the source from the electricity. I think also, Sir, here is a good case for the unhappy marriage between the State of Assam and the State of Meghalaya. It should be ended so that we may sell this surplus electricity to the State of Assam and derive some good income thereby. The idea of ropeway from Cherra, here I would correctly say Sohra, i.e., the ropeway from Sohra to Gauhati or from Sohra to Bangladesh will be very good for the State and it will raise a very good source of income to the State. The other way by which this huge deficit may be wiped out, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the introduction of economic scheme. I had the previous occasion to draw the attention of the Government to the fact that many of these schemes were framed in the pattern adopted and suited for the State of Assam and we have seen from experience that these schemes are not suitable for Hills areas. For example, Mr. Speaker, Sir, these cows and bulls are being purchased from year to year in a routine fashion. I have yet to say that whether all these bulls and cow lives in the shape of bulls or cows but they have not been able to live in our Hills areas. They are susceptible to diseases which may perhaps not have been found in the medical book. So, if we discontinue this practice we will find out the scheme and pattern of expenditure in various products which will be in tune with the local conditions. I think there will be a large sum of money which will be available as a result of economic measure. Again Sir, there are some fields where more expenditure is necessary, for example, Excise. We have not discussed the item put by the Excise Department. But Sir, in brief I may say that the evils that are taking place under the Excise Department are the pestering source to our State. But the dignity and the prestige of our people are at stake. 

Mr. Speaker :- How many minutes more will you take?

Shri H. Hynniewta :- I do not know, if you have fixed time. 

Mr. Speaker :- You have already spoken and have already suggested ways and means for the Government, but atleast see that the speech be briefed as far as possible. Of course you have touched so many things. I think if you will not take more time I will allow you a few minutes more. If not, then I have to fix the time.

Shri H. Hynniewta :- Sir, let me experiment first. Sir, I was speaking about the Excise Department. You see, Sir, illicit liquor is so plentiful in the market that the existence of this liquor is eating into the very vital part of our community. Young boys and girls, I believe, even girls are getting drunk at the very early age and at the same time there are so many villages in the country which do not want the opening of any liquor shops in their villages and they are helpless in the matter and that the Government do not come to their aid. They want that the liquor shops in their villages should be stopped and that there should not be any liquor at all in their villages. But, as it is at present, the Government is helpless because it does not involve and still licenses are being given be the existing administrative heads. So I would like to request the Finance Minister to see that in those villages where people want to introduce prohibition of liquor, it should not be allowed and in those villages where the people still, want the existence of liquor, it should be allowed but at some suitable distance from the village, say a distance of one mile at least so that persons who are very keen to drink will have to go to that distance of one mile and by the time they come back to the village they will be cool down. Sir the idea is that if one has to go to such a distance he may not like to take the trouble of going there. I want that those villages which still want to have liquor shop they should be allowed to set up liquor shops at the places which should be one mile from the villages in order to check drunkenness. Drunkenness is so prevalent in our district and it is very difficult for us Mr. Speaker, Sir, to perform our normal duties especially during the meetings in the election. Somebody will come and disturb the meeting when he is drunk and it made me think as if these people were hired to stop the meeting. So, Sir, I feel that drunkenness in the State should not be allowed. But at your own private residence you can get drunk as much as you like. 

Mr. Speaker :- The hon. Member may discuss this matter at some other time or put question to the minister in-charge of Excise and not at the time when Meghalaya Appropriation (Amendment) bill is being discussed. The discussion should be more on general nature rather than specific. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- This is a policy matter. I am referring to the problems elating to my constituency. You will agree with me. Mr. Speaker, Sir, that this is a very important matter. 

Mr. Speaker :- It is not only that, but the hon. Member should indicate the points that he would like to raise. 

Shri B.B. Shallam :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of clarification may we know up to what time we can continue discussing in this way. 

Mr. Speaker :- It is not your duty. After Mr. Hoover Hynniewta has completed, I will try to ascertain the time because we cannot continue to discuss at the cost of other Members. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think in the interest of other Members I would like to participate and I will bring only some important remarks on the question of separation of judiciary from executive. I would also request, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that the disposal of the cases should be expeditious. I will only touch on the administration of justice. You will find that cases sometimes drag on for 2/3 years and because of this the murder cases especially do not come forward because they are subjected to very very great harassment and they will not be taken up in one day or two days. It will take a very long time. And as a result people will not come forward as witness because it will create harassment. So Sir, these are tried at a stretch until their trials are completed, I believe Mr. Speaker, Sir, the charge that justice delayed is justice denied. With these few words, I resume my seat. 

Mr. Speaker :- First of all let me tell the House that we will be able to sit up to 6 P.M. Let me ascertain how many Members would like to speak next and on what point they would like to touch. 

*Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw (Mawhati S.T.) :- I want to discuss on the misuse of money that is being misappropriated.  Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to seriously put before this Government only one point and that is some of demands for grants. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are about to pass an Appropriation Bill to the tune of Rs.28,52,72,500. My point is that this Amendment Bill which is sought to be passed by this Government will affect the large majority of our people. The Government should remember that 99 per cent of the people in this State are very very poor. We may sit here to day, in luxury, we may have good dress, we may move in cars, enjoy a fairly good income and we may have many amenities of life, education for our children and so and so forth. But, Mr. Speaker, Sir, a vast majority of our population are still living in abject poverty and although this Government has a majority which can device means to improve the standard of living of the people, they will have at their disposal Rs.28,52,72,500 and although it will take a long time for the Auditor General of India or for the A.'s office to send the audited report on the expenditure and for this matter it will take a very long time for the audited report to come. Now I would request the Government earnestly to see that the amount sanctioned is actually spent for the vast poor people of our State. 

Mr. Speaker :- I think it is not time to preach sermon.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw :- I cannot reach preach sermon but these are facts being present here. There are specific examples of reckless wastage of Government money which were brought to our notice. Now we have got a deficit Budget and let us try not to misuse the money that is being placed at the disposal of the Government. So, I would request the Government to see that money is spent in development schemes that have been approved. With these few words I resume my seat. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- I want only, Mr. Speaker, Sir, to touch on some points and that is on the administration of justice in Jaintia Hills. 

Mr. Speaker :- No more specific cases here. 

Shri H. Hadem :- Then I discuss about the recent flood relief to the flood effected areas. 

Mr. Speaker :- Flood relief is a specific instance. You may give a call attention notice on this particular matter. Better you discuss about the administration of justice. 

Shri H. Hadem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, our Jaintia people should be given chance to be nearer to administration but it so happened that the people of Jaintia Hills are not always found to be nearer to the administration. Let me cite an instance, the other day the people who were arrested since June, 1971 were trying to the petition for bail. They contacted the DC of Jowai but they were told that the case has been transferred to the ADM Shillong since 22nd February, 1972 and nothing has been done. So Sir just like to mention here that we are farther from the administration and not nearer to it and sometimes there are some cases not accomplished as stated by the Government in the last Governor's Address where that is the reply. They said that they would try as far as practicable and as soon as possible to separate the Executive from the Judiciary. Sir, they were filing a case to one person under one head who is not only representing the Executive and the Judiciary but also the prosecution side. I will give only one instance, Sir, that the Deputy Commissioner, Jowai, is being put in charge of Police there which is the prosecution side and, at the same time, as a Judiciary Officer in certain cases and this is how the Administration of Justice is to be expected from a person who is both the Executive and the Judiciary. 

Mr. Speaker :- So you also advocate separation of the Executive from the Judiciary?

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Yes, and moreover, Sir, at least in the Jaintia Hills District there should be nobody to try civil suits after the withdrawal of the Sub divisional Officer as nobody was posted in his place. This is how the Administration of Justice is going on and the position is a very awkward. Last but not the least, I would like to request the Government, through you, Sir, to seriously consider this matter. Lastly I want to refer to only one point and that is about grants to the District Council. Sir, if we turn to Sub-para 4 of Paragraph 7 of the Sixth Schedule to the Constitution we find that it is written. 

        "The Comptroller and Auditor General shall cause the accounts of the District and Regional Councils to be audited in such manner as he may think fit, and the reports of the Comptroller and Auditor General relating to such accounts shall be submitted to the Governor who shall cause them to be laid before the Council".

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether the reports of the Council have been obtained. I refer to this point because the word 'Governor also means the State Government. 

Mr. Speaker :- That is a District Council matter. 

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- No, Sir. According to Article 166 "all executive action of the Government of a State shall be expressed to be taken in the name of the Governor" and as such we cannot say otherwise. Sir, I think it is the responsibility of the State Government to look after this. With these few words, Sir, I resume my seat. 

Mr. Speaker :- May I now request the Hon'ble Finance Minister to make a brief statement and to avoid, as far as possible, all the other points which have already been covered in the replies to the Budget discussion.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am really grateful to the hon. Member, Mr. Hynniewta, for the expression that he has given in this House as to the unanimity of feeling of the House in regard to the administration of in the States. I also appreciate the concern and interest of Mr. Hynniewta on the huge deficit in the Budget and his constructive approach by way of suggestions, as many as seven suggestions, for raising the resources of the State. But, as I have already had the occasion to state in the last few days, I may state here that this question is being considered by the Government and that the Ways and Means Committee is being appointed to look into this question; in fact, we have decided that by the end of December this year the Committee must complete its study, its report and its recommendations. Now, I would invite Mr. Hynniewta and other hon. members of this House to make suggestions to this Committee with regard to the ways and means of finding resources for our State. 

        On the question of illicit distillation and drunkenness I think I had the occasion to make a statement. 

Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I know the Members of the Ways and Means Committee?

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- I have said that we are appointing them very soon. On the question of illicit distillation, I have already made a statement in reply to the discussion.

        Now both Mr. Hynniewta and Mr. Hadem have stressed the need of separation of the Judiciary from the Executive. In fact, the Government is very much concerned about this problem of delay in the disposal of cases in the courts which has caused a lot of harassment to the people and a lot of expenses also to the Government. Therefore, the Government is moving towards that end but I would request the hon. Members to have some patience because it really takes time and it also takes quite a lot of effort and finance to have a complete separation of the Judiciary from the Executive. The hon. Members might have seen in the Budget that we have provided for the appointment of a District and Sessions Judge for Shillong. That means that he would be devoted only to the Administration of Justice. So, that will go a long way towards meeting this problem of delay in the administration of justice.

        I also appreciate the concern of Prof. Majaw that this huge amount of Rs.28 crores be properly utilised for the benefit of the people. So, with these few words, Sir, I would appeal that the hon. members will support and pass this bill.

Mr. Speaker :- Let me put the question before the House. The question is that the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. I) Bill, 1972 be introduced.

( The motion is carried. The Bill is introduced). 

        Now, let me read another message from the Governor:

        "In exercise of the powers conferred by Clause (3) of article 207 of the Constitution of India, I, Braj Kumar Nehru, Governor of Meghalaya, hereby recommend to the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly the consideration of the Meghalaya  Appropriation (No. 1) Bill, 1972. 

Dated Raj Bhavan,

Sd/- B.K. NEHRU

Shillong 

Governor"

The 26th June, 1972.

        Now, the Finance Minister to move that the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. 1) Bill, 1972, be taken into consideration. 

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. 1) Bill, 1972 be taken into consideration. 

Mr. Speaker :- Motion is moved. Now I put the question before the House. The question is that the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. I) Bill, 1972 be taken into consideration. The motion is carried.

        I hope we have had enough discussion on the Budget. 

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. 1) Bill, 1972 be passed.

Mr. Speaker :- The question is that the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. I) Bill, 1972 be passed. The motion is carried. The Bill is passed.

*Shri Hoover Hynniewta :- Before you adjourn the House, Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I make a request. As you have seen yourself, Sir, most of the demands on the grants had to be guillotined and even the hon. Members participating in this debate had to hurry and the sense of hurry has certainly disturbed the sense of concentration. Also, Sir, you, in your wisdom, have advised the Finance Minister to give a very short speech and taking advantage of that you have by-passed the motions which were not replied by him in the general debate on the budget. This being the case, Sir, may I request that this is not done in the next time when we consider the supplementary demand or demands for the next financial year. As a matter of fact, we have not been able to place before the House so many matter of public importance because of the shortness of time at our disposal. So, Sir, as the protector of our rights and interests of this side of the House, may we request you, Sir, that next time we shall be given more time. 

Mr. Speaker :- I must express my thankfulness to the hon. Members who has given so many other suggestions. And I would also like to say that I will try my level best to place these difficulties before the Business Advisory Committee and, at the same time, I would also request the other hon. Members to be as business like as possible because the sense of business is the most important sense. If we give you more time, there will be a tendency that everybody will wait to speak tomorrow, tomorrow, and sometimes the House has to be adjourned; but the sense of business is more important. I think we must learn by experience. 


ADJOURNMENT

        The House now stands adjourned till 9 a.m. on Friday, the 30th June, 1972.

  N.C. Handique

Dated Shillong :

Secretary,

the 29th June, 1972.

Meghalaya Legislative Assembly.

******