PROCEEDINGS OF THE BUDGET SESSION OF THE MEGHALAYA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY ASSEMBLED ON WEDNESDAY THE 24TH MARCH, 1976 , IN THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER AT 9.30.A.M

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Present : Hon'ble Speaker, eight Ministers, three Ministers of State and Members.

Mr. Speaker : Let us begin the business of the day by taking up Starred Question No.3

STARRED QUESTIONS.

(To which oral replies were given)

Shri W. Syiemiong asked :

*3. Will the Minister in charge of Co-operation be pleased to state-

(a) What is meant by Thrift Deposit of a Society?

(b) Whether this is a compulsory deposit?

(c) Whether there is any defaulting Society?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah, Minister Co-operation replied :

*3 (a) - Thrift Deposits are collected from borrowing members of a Co-operative Society on their getting agricultural loan in order to augment the resources of the Society.

(b)- Yes.

(c)- Two Societies in the State have not yet collected the full amount of thrift deposit from their members.

Mr. Maham Singh : May we know the names pf those Societies?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah, Minister Co-operation : The names of those two societies are Wahlang Service Co-operative Society and the Tieh Nongbah Service Co-operative Society.

Shri W. S. Syiemiong : May we know when this Wahlang Service Cooperative Society defaulted?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah, Minister Co-operation : Mr. Speaker Sir, the loan was given to the Wahlang  Service Co-operative Society some time last year, subject to correction. As the loan issued was in the form of kind  Mr. Speaker Sir, the thrift money could not be collected.

Shri H.S. Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, what is the amount involved.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah, Minister Co-operation : The amount involved is 15,000 rupees which is 3 per cent on the amount  of loan which is Rs.5,00,243.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, may we know the persons who are responsible for collection of thrift money from the Members of a Co-operative Society?

Mr. Speaker : Whether the persons or Officers?

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh : Whoever may be, either the persons or Officers are responsible.

Shri W. S. Syiemiong : What is the percentage of thrift deposit?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah, Minister Co-operation : Mr. Speaker Sir, the percentage of thrift deposit is 3 per cent of the amount sanctioned.

Shri W. S. Syiemiong : What actions have been taken against those defaulting Societies?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah, Minister Co-operation : The Banks have taken steps to see that the amount is deposited.

Shri H.S. Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, what is the amount involved in the Tieh Nongbah Service Co-operative Society?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah, Minister Co-operation : Mr. Speaker Sir, the Tieh Nongbah Co-operative Society has failed to deposit a part of the thrift deposit . The balance amount is Rs.4,425 as at present.

Mr. Speaker : Now, Unstarred Question No.41.


UNSTARRED QUESTIONS

(Replies which were laid on the Table)

Excise Revenue Receipt 

Prof Martin Narayan Majaw asked :

41. Will the Minister in charge of Excise be pleased to state the Excite Revenue receipt, year wise, from 1972-1875?

 Shri Edwingson Bareh, Minister Excise replied :

41.-

Year

Amount Collected (Rs)
1972-73 .... ... ... .... 16,55,453
1973-74 ... ... ... .... 21,52,626
1974-75 ... ... ... ... 26,35,473
1975 February, 1976 ... ... ... ... 28,71,586.60

 Shri H. Hadem :  41. What is the  reason of sudden increase in 1975-76?

 Mr. Speaker : May be according to  the number of people .

 Shri Edwingson Bareh, (Minister, Agriculture) : Mr. Speaker Sir, may be the Department is more active. 

(Laughter

Shri H. Hadem : Mr. Speaker, Sir, then does it indicate that in the previous years the Department was not active?

(Laughter)

Shri Edwingson Bareh, Minister , Agriculture : The Department is more active every year.

Mr. Speaker :Unstarred question No.42.


Traffic Constable 

Shri Kristo M. Roy Marbaniang asked :

 42. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state the reasons why the Traffic Constables on duty do not wear their number badges?

Capt. Williamson Sangma, Chief Minister replied :

42.- The Traffic Constables are to wear their number and shoulder badges. In case these are lost or damaged within the prescribed period they are replaced  as soon as possible  depending on the stock position and action against the Constables concerned is taken.

 Shri H. S. Lyngdoh : Whether action  is liable for those who do not wear badges on duty?

Capt. Williamson Sangma, Chief Minister : Yes, according to the prescribed limit.

Mr. Speaker :  Unstarred question No.43.

Repairing of the V.A.S . Quarter at Nongstoin.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot asked :

43. Will the Minister in charge of Animal Husbandry and Veterinary be pleased to state -

(a) The amount spent by S.D.V.O., Nongstoin (i) for repairs to Veterinary dispensary at Nongstoin during 1973-74 and 1974-75 and (ii) for repairs to the V.A.S. Quarters at Nongstoin during 1973-74 and 1974-75?

(b) The names of the contractors to whom the works were allotted?

(c) The name of the officer who supervised the work and made entry in the  measurement book?

(d) Whether the above mentioned works were completed to the satisfaction of the Department?

Shri E. Bareh, (Minister Animal Husbandry and Veterinary) replied :

43.(a)- The amount spent by the S.D.V.O. Nongstoin (i) for repairs of Veterinary Dispensary at Nongstoin during 1973-74 is Rs.9,000 (nine thousand )only in 1974-75 nil (ii) repairs of V.A.S. Quarter at Nongstoin during 1973-74 is Rs.16,600.00,1974-75 nil.

(b)-Smti. Resmoda Snaitang, Nongstoin.

(c)- Shri D.P. Chakravarty, Subordinate Engineer supervised the work. The measurement book has not been completed and the final claim has not been settled as the works have been to the satisfaction of the Department.

(d)- The entire works have not been completed to the satisfaction of the Department.

Shri Maham Singh : Mr. Speaker Sir, may we know whether these repairs are annual repairs?

Shri E. Bareh, (Minister Animal Husbandry and Veterinary) :  These are special repairs, Mr. Speaker Sir.

Shri W.S. Syiemiong : 43 (a), Sir, what was original estimates? 

Shri E. Bareh, (Minister Animal Husbandry and Veterinary) : Mr. Speaker Sir, the original estimate for Veterinary dispensary was 13,000 rupees, for the year 1973-74.

 Shri W. S. Syiemiong : I have seen two are involved?

Shri E. Bareh, (Minister Animal Husbandry and Veterinary) : Yes, Sir, the other estimate is Rs.16,500.

 Shri Maham Singh :  May we know, Mr. Speaker Sir, what is the amount?

 Mr. Speaker : These are special repairs (laughter)


Availing  of Casual leave by the S.D.V.O. Nongstoin.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot asked : 

44. Will the Minister in charge of Animal and Husbandry and Veterinary be pleased to state -

(a) The number of casual leave (days) earned leave availed by the S.D.V.O. Nongstoin, during 1974-75 and 1975-76?

(b) The detailed tour programme (engagement) of the S.D.V.O. Nongstoin, with effect from 30th August 1974 to 23rd September 1974 and with effect from 25th September 1974 to 8th October 1974?

Shri Edwingson Bareh, (Minister Animal Husbandry and Veterinary) replied : 

44 (a)-  1974-75 1975-76
CL 8 days 7 days
EL Nil  Nil

(b)- The tour diary is placed on the Table of the House.


Mobile Dispensary Veterinary Doctor at Nongstoin.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot asked :

45. Will the Minister in charge of Animal Husbandry and Veterinary be pleased to state-

(a) Whether Government propose to depute one Mobile Dispensary Veterinary Doctor with headquarters at Nongstoin?

(b) Whether a vehicle meant for Mobile Dispensary is stationed at or detailed for Nongstoin?

Shri Edwingson Bareh, (Minister Animal Husbandry and Veterinary) replied : 

45. (a)- One V.A.S. (Mobile ) is already in position at Nongstoin.

(b) - Yes.


Construction of Road under the Rural Works Programme,

Prof Martin Narayan Majaw asked :

46. Will the Minister in charge of Agriculture be pleased to state -

(a) The names of all the village or market roads taken up for construction under the Rural Works Programme by the Small Farmers and Marginal Labourers Development Agency in the Ri- Bhoi Administrative Unit?

(b) How many of these have been completed?

(c) How many of these are still under construction?

(d) What is the estimated amount of expenditure on each of these schemes?

Shri Edwingson Bareh Minister, Agriculture replied :

46. (a) - The list is placed on the Table of the House.

(b)- None

(c)- All roads under the programme are still under construction.

(d)- Shown in the list mentioned at (a) above.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : May we know since when the schemes have been taken up ?

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) : Mr. Speaker Sir, I have not yet consulted my papers. Whether the member means (a), (b) or (c).

Shri S.D. Khongwir : I think (c) Sir, how many of these are still under construction?

Shri E. Bareh ( Minister , Agriculture) : During the financial year?

Shri S.D. Khongwir :What is the total amount involved in all these schemes.

Shri E. Bareh ( Minister , Agriculture) : I have to total it Mr. Speaker Sir, I can give the amount of each scheme but not the total of all the schemes.

Mr. Speaker : On the other hand, you may please place that at least on the Table of the House.

Shri E. Bareh ( Minister , Agriculture) : Already placed Sir. They  may kindly do it by themselves.

 Shri S.D. Khongwir : Who are the persons for whom implementation of the scheme has been entrusted?

Shri E. Bareh ( Minister , Agriculture) : The  Extension Officer.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : One more Mr. Speaker Sir, whether this Officer is a technical hand?

Shri E. Bareh ( Minister , Agriculture) : Yes, he is a subordinates Engineer.

Mr. Speaker : Then Unstarred Question No.47.


Collection of soling and metal stones by the Balat Sub division.

Shri Kristo M. Roy Marbaniang asked :

47. Will  the Minister in charge of Public Works Department  be pleased to state-

(a) Whether it is a fact that soling and metal stones collected since the year 1971 by the Balat Subdivision are lying unused uptil now?

(b) Whether Government is aware that staking of such stones in the road side causes obstruction to vehicles specially big trucks like Tata and Leyland?

(c) When does the Government propose to utilise the same for the purpose they are meant?

Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah, (Minister Public Works Department) replied :

47 (a)- Yes

(b)- Yes

(c)- The same will be utilised on receipt of technical and financial sanction from the Government of India.

Shri Maham Singh : For how many years these have been lying unused?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah, (Minister P.W.D) :  Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not get the question.

Mr. Speaker : I think the question is whether it is a fact that the soling and metal stones collected since 1971 by the Balat Subdivision are lying unused.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah, ( Minister P.W.D) : If that be the case , the answer is already there.

 Shri S.D. Khongwir : 47 (a), (b) and (c). Whether technical and financial sanction from the Government of India was necessary for the collection of the metals in 1971?

Shri P. R. Kyndiah, ( Minister P.W.D) : Yes Sir.

Shri Rowel Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, 47 (b). Whether the Government are not to clear these stones which are lying unused in the road side for making the plying of vehicles convenient?

Mr. Speaker : Whether Government is thinking of removing these soiling and metal stones from the road?

Shri W.A. Sangma, Chief Minister : Mr. Speaker Sir, let me clear the grounds. In fact, we are giving the works a top priority. There is a lot of works to be done here. We are taking every action with the Ministry Defence in this regard. The boulders and stones collected had to be broken down into smaller sizes.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh : But we are not to allow vehicles to ply?

Mr. Speaker : The question is only inconvenience?


Doctor posted in various State Dispensaries.

Shri Manindra Rabha asked :

48. Will the Minister in Charge of Health be pleased to state-

(a) The number of Doctors appointed during the year 1975 for postings in various  State Dispensaries?

(b) Whether all the doctors so appointed reported for duty?

(c) If not, how many of them refused to join.

(d) Whether it is a fact that one doctor will be appointed for the Tikrikilla State Dispensary in the current year?

Shri Sandford K. Marak, (Minister Health) replied :

 48. (a)- Thirty Six.

(b)- No.

(c)- Fifteen

(d)- One qualified Assistant Surgeon II Doctor is already at Tikrikilla.

Shri Plansing Marak : Out of 36 doctors appointed, may I know how many have joined?

Mr. Speaker : Out of 36 appointed 15 refused to join.

Shri Plansing Marak : I would like to know how many joined?

Shri Maham Singh : Whether these doctors are new recruits, or they are the doctors taken from other assignments?

Shri Sandford K. Marak, (Minister Health) : The posts were advertised and these are all new recruits.

Shri Winstone Syiemiong : May we know the reason why those 15 doctors refused to join?

Shri Sandford K. Marak, (Minister Health) : It will be difficult for me to reply, as I also have not met them. (Laughter)

Shri Winstone Syiemiong : I was just asking for the reasons.

Mr. Speaker : I am telling you that it is difficult for the Minister to give the reason on behalf of those who have not joined.


Construction of Rongrengirri Government High School buildings.

Shri Chronsing Sangma asked :

49. Will the Minister in charge  of Education be pleased to state -

(a) Whether the construction of Rongrenggiri Government High School buildings at William Nagar, has been completed ?

(b) If not, the reason thereof?

(c) Whether the Government has taken over the building?

(d) If not the reason thereof?

(e) Whether the Assistant Headmaster and requisite teachers have been posted at  Rongrenggiri Government High School?

(f) Whether the Government propose to open the H.S.L.C. Examination Centre at William Nagar within this financial year?

(g) Whether the Government proposes to provincialise more M.E. Schools in the State?

(h) If so, the names of such schools ( istrict Wise)?

Shri Peter Garnet Marbaniang, (Minister of State, Education) replied :

49. (a)- No.

(b)- The work is still in progress.

(c)- & (d)- Do not arise in view of the reply to question (b) above.

(e)- Headmaster  and eight teachers have been posted. The post of Assistant Headmaster will soon be filed up.

(f)- No.

(g)- The matter is under examination.

(h)- Does not arise in view of reply to question (g) above.


Construction of Umdihar - Mawhati Road.

Prof Martin Narayan  Majaw asked:

50. Will the Minister in charge of Public Works Department be pleased to state:

(a) Whether the Government propose to construct a road from Umdihar to Mawhati via Mawrong, in the Ri- Bhoi under the Shillong North Division?

(b) If, So whether the Government has considered the feasibility of re-aligning this road from Umsning to Mawrong to Mawhati?

(c) Whether the Government is aware of the fact that a road from Umdihar to Mawrong would merely run parallel to the Nongpoh-Umden Road, whereas the road from Umsning is the natural outlet for the people of the Narlein Raid to the Umsning (Naya Bungalow) Bazar?

(d) Whether Government is aware of the fact that there already exists a road from  Umsning to Mawrong, under the control of the Khasi Hills District Council, which may be taken over by the Public Works Department of the Government of Meghalaya?

Shri P. Ripple  Kyndiah, Minister of P.W.D. (R and B) Department replied :

 50.(a) - Yes.

(b)- No.

(c)- Though the proposed road from Umdihar to Mawhati will run from West to East as the Nongpoh-Umden Road, it will open up the interior places when constructed.

(d)- Yses. There is however no proposal to take  over this road by the Public Works Department .

Shri D.D. Lapang : When will the construction work be started?

Mr. Speaker : You  mean the proposed road?

Shri D.D. Lapang : When will the construction of the proposed road be taken up?

Shri P. Ripple  Kyndiah, Minister of P.W.D. (R and B) Department :  As soon as conditions are favourable.


Drawal of Bill by late Yang Swer

Shri Raisen Mawsor asked :

51. Will the  Minister in charge of P.W.D. be pleased to state -

(a) Whether any enquiry has been conducted on the drawal of bill by late Yang Swer, Contractor from the E.E., Nongstoin, P.W.D. Division.?

(b) If so, what is the result of the enquiry?

Shri P. R.  Kyndiah, Minister of P.W.D. (R and B) Department replied :

51. (a)- Yes.

(b)- The result of the enquiry revealed that payment was made to Shri Lo. Phawa, the son of late Yang Swer.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Under what authority was the bill  paid to Shri Lo. Phawa?

Shri P. R. Kyndiah, Minister of P.W.D. (R and B) Department : The authority was of the Executive Engineer who had paid the amount to the son of the identification of another son. So the bill was paid on that.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : May we know whether this is regular that the amount should be paid to the son of late Yang Swer.

Shri W.A. Sangma, Chief Minister : Sir, I think this question has come up a number of times and it has been referred to the Anti Corruption Branch for enquiry. I think it may not be good to discuss this matter.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Here it is said that the enquiry has been conducted from the Government side. We want to know the result from the side of the Government.

Shri E. Bareh, Minister Agriculture : I think it is wrong Sir, it is not Iang Swer.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : But the reply to 51 (b) is that of late Iang Swer which shows that the Government also has just followed the mistake of the questioner.

Mr. Speaker : The name is correct and the Minister also has replied correctly.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : May we know who signed the bill that was paid to Lo Phawa, signed as Iang Swer.

Shri P. R. Kyndiah, ( Minister P.W.D) : Mr. Speaker Sir, this matter as stated by the Chief Minister, was enquired into by the Home Department, I would make a little statement on this. The result was that it was found that the Executive Engineer had no mala fide  intention on this matter and the bill was paid in good faith. However, the Government viewed with concern the whole episode and a severe warning was issued to the Executive  Engineer concerned. Meanwhile, after getting the report the Government has proposed taking suitable action against Lo Phawa also. This is all I have to say on this.


Establishment of Rural Credit Banks.

Shri Samsul Haque asked :

52. Will the Minister in charge of Co-operation be pleased to state-

(a) Whether Rural Credit Banks are going to be established in the State?

(b) If so, when?

Shri P. R. Kyndiah, (Minister Cooperation) replied :

52. (a) & (b)- Decision of Government of India on the setting up of Rural Banks in the State is awaited.


Key Villages Centre.

Shri Enowell Pohshna asked :

53. Will the Minister in charge of Veterinary be pleased to state-

(a) The number of Key Village Centres established during the years 1973-74, 1974-75 and 1975-76 by the Veterinary Department in each of the districts of Garo Hills, Khasi and Jaintia Hills?

(b) The names of the centres and the names of the contractors entrusted with the construction of buildings in each of the key Village Centre and the amount paid to each?

Shri Edwingson Bareh, (Minister Animal Husbandry and Veterinary) replied :

53. (a)-

Name of Districts

1973-74

1974-75 1975-76
(1)- Garo Hills Districts 1 3 2
(2)- Jaintia Hills Districts 1 1 3
(3)- Khasi Hills Nil Nil Nil

(b)- The particulars are furnished in the list placed on the table of the House.


Recognised High and M.E. School.

Shri Enowell Pohshna asked :

54. Will the Minister in charge of Education  be pleased to state-

(a) The names of High Schools and M.E. Schools recognised in the year 1974-75 and 1975-7?

(b) The names of High Schools and M.E. Schools to be provincialise during the year ending 31st March 1976?

Shri Peter Garnet Marbaniang, (Minister of State Education) replied :

54. (a) - A list is placed on the Table of the House.

(b)- Only Sib Singh Memorial High School, Nongstoin, has been provincialise during the year ending 31st March, 1976.

 Shri D.D. Lapang : What is the number of High Schools and Middle English School proposed to be provincialised during the year 1976-77?

Shri P.G. Marbaniang, (Minister of State Education) : That is a new question Sir.

Mr. Speaker : You should have come forward with your won question as this supplementary question has no connection with this portion.


Tikrikilla Inspection Bungalow 

Shri Manindra Rabha asked :

55. Will the Minister in charge of Public Works Department be pleased to state -

(a) Whether it is a fact that accommodation in the  Tikrikilla I.B. is too limited?

(b) Whether there is any proposal for extension of the existing building or construction of a new one?

(c) If not, why not?

(d) Whether it is also a fact that the staff quarters of Tikrikilla Public Works Department Section Office are in dilapidated condition?

(e) If so, what action has been taken for its improvement?

Shri P. R. Kyndiah, ( Minister P.W.D) replied :

55. (a)- Yes. There are only two rooms in the Tikrikilla I.B.

(b)- At the present there is no proposal for extension or re construction of the Tikrikilla I.B.

(c)- A proposal for remodeling the I.B. is being considered.

(d)- No.

(e)- Does not arise.


Lift Irrigation Projects of Simsangirri 

Shri Chronsing Sangma asked :

56. Will the Minister in charge of Agriculture be pleased to state-

(a) Whether the Lift Irrigation Projects of Simsangiri to cover Rongrenggiri and Chidrang will be completed within this financial year?

(b) If not, the reasons for the delay?

(c) Whether the Government has posted Assistant Engineer and Overseers for Simsangiri Sub Division at Williamnagar?

(d) Whether there is any provision for construction of Bund and Dong at Rongrenggiri, Chidekgiri and Bansan Awagiri?

(e) If not, whether the scheme has been abandoned?

(f) Whether the Government propose to entrust the implementation of some minor irrigation schemes to the District Councils in 1976-77?

(g) The new irrigation projects to be taken up in the year 1976-77 (Sub Division - Wise)?

Shri Edwingson Bareh, (Minister  Agriculture) replied :

56. (a)- The Lift Irrigation Scheme at Simsanggiri and Rongrenggiri are expected to be completed by April  1976. The Flow Irrigation Scheme at Chidrang is likely to be completed by June - July, 1976.

(b)- Slight delay at Chidrang has been caused as actual  work could be started only during last winter.

        At Simsangiri and Rongrenggiri some contractors did not take up works and these had to be re- allocated. This also caused some delay.

(c)- No.

(d) & (e)- There is no specific provision against any likely scheme to be taken up immediately. As Rongrenggiri area will be benefited by the Lift Irrigation Scheme in hand, the necessity of having other bunds will be examined.

(f)- No.

(g)- Not yet finalised.


Construction of foot-bridge over Mustem 

Shri Enowell Pohshna asked :

57. Will the Minister in Charge of P.W.D. be pleased to state-

(a) When was the work for construction of a foot bridge over Mustem near Mawphlang allotted to the  contractors?

(b) Whether the work has been completed?

(c)  If not, when is it expected to be completed?

(d) The reasons for the delay in completing the work?

Shri P. R. Kyndiah, ( Minister P.W.D) replied :

57. (a)- The work was initially allotted on the 31st July, 1972; but as contractors failed to complete the formalities, the work order was cancelled. Fresh tenders were invited and the work was allotted on the 28th November, 1974.

(b)- No.

(c)- The bridge is expected to be completed within 1976-77.

(d)- The delay is due to the change in the original proposal.


Rewards for Government Servants.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw asked :

58. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state whether the Government has decided upon rewards  and incentives for hardworking, loyal and efficient Government servants, inversely proportionate to the punishments now being meted out to corrupt and inefficient officers?

Shri Williamson Sangma, (Chief Minister) replied :

58. The rewards and incentives for hardworking, loyal and efficient Governments servants are being provided by the Government in many ways, e.g., merit is being given greater weightage for promotion.


Issue of Special Permit for plying City buses and Bazar buses 

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh asked :

59. Will the Minister-in-charge of Transport be pleased to state- 

(a) Whether it is a fact that Government are proposing to issue special permit for plying City buses and Bazar Buses from- (i) Shillong to Kyrdemkulai via Umsning and (ii) Shillong to Bhoilymbong via Umroi, for the interest of the people in general and cultivators in particular?

(b) If the answer to (a) above be in the affirmative, how many applications have been received from  vehicle owners for special permit for the said routes?

(c) When are the special permits for the above routs likely to be issued?

Shri Darwin D. Pugh, (Minister Transport) replied :

59. (a)- The Regional Transport Authority, Shillong has already decided to issue tow new stage carriages permits on each of the following routes -(i) Shillong- Kyrdemkulai and (ii) Shillong- Umroi .

(b)- Two applications for special permits on plain paper (not any proper forms) were received by the Regional Transport authority for Shillong-Umsning-Bhoilymbong.

(c)- After formalities are completed.


Production  of rice beer and Country Liquor.

Shri Manindra Rabha asked :

60. Will the Minister in charge of Excise be pleased to state -

(a) Whether effective steps have been taken to stop the production of rice beer as well as country liquor in the State?

(b) Whether effective steps have been taken to impress upon the people against the practice of preparing rice beer?

(c) If, so through what media?

Shri Edwinson Bareh (Minister, Excise) replied :

 60.(a)- Effective steps have been taken to stop illicit production of country liquor. As regards rice beer this does not come under the Excise Act.

(b) & (c)- Do not arise in view of (a) above.


Officer deputed from Arunachal Civil Service.

Shri Samarendra Sangma asked :

61. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

(a) How many officers from the Arunachal Civil Services are working under the Meghalaya Government on deputation?

(b) Whether there is any provision for the absorption of the  Tribal Officers who are working under the Meghalaya Government on deputation from Arunachal Civil Service opting to work in State permanently?

Capt. Williamson Sangma, (Chief Minister) replied : 

61 (a)- Two

(b)- Yes, in suitable cases.

Shri H. Hadem : What are the steps taken by the Government to absorb them?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma, (Chief Minister) : The matter is in the process.

Mr. Speaker : Let us pass on item No.2. Minister, Finance.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh, (Minister Finance) : Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg leave to introduce the Meghalaya Credit Operation and Miscellaneous Provision Bill,1976.

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. I put the question before the House. The question is that leave be granted to introduce the Meghalaya Credit Operation and Miscellaneous Provision Bill, 1976. The motion is carried, Leave is granted, Minister to introduce the Bill.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister Finance) : Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg to introduce the Bill.

Mr. Speaker :Motion moved. The question is that the Meghalaya Credit Operation and Miscellaneous Provision Bill, 1976 be introduced. The motion is carried and the Bill is introduced. (The Secretary read out the title of the Bill)

Let us pass on to item. No.3. Chief Minister to move Grant No.1


VOTING ON DEMAND FOR GRANTS

Shri W.A. Sangma, (Chief Minister) : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.19,42,000, be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "211- Parliament, State/Union Territory Legislature- B- State Legislature"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. the question is that an amount of Rs.19,42,000, be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "211- Parliament , State/ Union Territory Legislature- B- State Legislature"

(The motion was adopted and demand passed)

Grant No.2

Shri W.A. Sangma, Chief Minister : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.10,000, be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "212-Governor"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.10,000, be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "212- Governor"

(The motion was adopted and demand passed)

Chief Minister to move Grant No.3.

Shri W.A. Sangma, Chief Minister : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move Grant No.3

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.8,77,500, be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "213- Council of Ministers"

(The motion was adopted and demand passed)

The Minister of Law to move Grant No.4.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh, (Minister of Law) : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move Grant No.4

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. I have received one cut motion, which stands in the name of Shri D.N. Joshi. Since the hon. Member is absent, the cut motion automatically stands withdrawn. Now let me put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.7,57,000, be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "214- Administration of Justice "

(The motion was adopted and demand passed)

Chief Minister  to move Grant No.5.

Capt. W.A. Sangma, (Chief Minister) : Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move Grant No.5.

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. I have received two cut motion which stands in the name of Shri Francis K. Mawlot, Shri H.S. Lyngdoh and Shri S.D. Khongwir. Since Shri Francis K. Mawlot is absent his cut motion is deemed to have been withdrawn. Now either Mr. H.S. Lyngdoh or Shri S.D. Khongwir to move.

Shri H.S. Lyngdoh : We will  not move Sir.

Mr. Speaker : Now, since, the hon. members are not willing to move the cut motion, I put the question before the House. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.11,34,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "215- Elections "

(The motion was adopted and demand passed)

The  Minister in charge of Revenue to move Grant No.6.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh, Minister In charge of Revenue: Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move Grant No.6.

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved and I have received as many as four cut motions on this Demand. The cut motions which stand in the name of Shri Rowell Lyngdoh is deemed to have been withdrawn since the hon. Member is absent. Now Shri S.D. Khongwir to move his cut motion.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.12,07,000 under Grant No.6 Major Head "299- Land-Revenue" at page 31 of the budget be reduced to Re.1 i.e., the amount  of the whole grants of Rs.12,07,000, do stand reduced to Re.1

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now you can initiate a discussion disapproving the discriminatory policy followed by the Government in matter of land acquisition cases.

*Shri S.D. Khongwir : Mr. Speaker Sir, I feel a little bit  embarrassed because time  and again I had come to this House to discuss about this particular matter pertaining to the question of compensations to the people especially in the Khasi Hills District. Mr. Speaker Sir, I have been knocking at the door especially that of the Minister for Revenue and I said that at least on this occasion because it happens to be the last year of the term my knock will be a little louder. I would like to request the Minister for Revenue, through you, that even if he cannot dare to open the door at least he will open the window. So, Mr. Speaker Sir, the only point that I  want to bring home is with regard to the discrimination shown by the Government in dealing effectively and expeditiously with the  the compensation cases that relate to villagers, poor people, the weaker section of the community. Sir, I have seen that in so far as big  projects where big people are involved, as has been correctly pointed out by the hon. Member from Umroi, that is, those people having several acres of land, the Government is taking steps very expeditiously. But  Mr. Speaker Sir, it is very very disappointing to note that the Government, in, so far as the small compensation matters are concerned, is keeping  pending for 5, 6 years or even 10/15 years and most of those people who were involved in these compensation matters who have gladly given their lands to the Government either for the construction of roads or for nay projects have died. Now the Government here inside this Assembly has been telling the entire House that the Government if for the weaker section of the society. But here Mr. Speaker Sir, as it is very evident from this particular case, the Government speaks something else, but actually does something on the contrary. So, Mr. Speaker Sir, since there will be no next year for this particular term I may remind the House that last year I have moved this particular cut motion on this particular grant and the Minister in charge categorically had replied that it would be the last term and I also totally agreed with the Minister and I thought that this Minister would do his best to really make it the last occasion. But Mr. Speaker Sir,  I have seen from my experience that the premises of the Minister could  not be implemented. I know when the Minister will reply to this particular cut motion he will say, rather he will sing the same song  that there is a dearth of officers. I know he will repeat the same tone that there is dearth of officers. I know very recently officers have been appointed to deal with these matters. Then again the Minister may say that we have very recently appointed those officers so it is humanly impossible for the officers to see to all those cases in such a short time. Nevertheless Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to again know the Minister, sorry, not the Minister but I mean his doors. (laughter)

        Mr. Speaker Sir, at least I would request the Minister in charge to try his best to clear up those cases speedily within  9th March, 1977 and I think within these 11 to 12 months it will not be difficult to clear up these pending matters. With these few words I move this cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : When I examined the cut motion which stands in the name of Mr. S.D. Khongwir and the cut motion of Mr. Edward Kurbah, I find that they are more or less of the same nature. So may I have leave of the House that I club them together in one cut motion?

(Voices- Yes, yes ...)

So, Mr. Edward Kurbah now.

Shri Edward Kurbah : Mr. Speaker Sir, in bringing this cut motion to this House, I feel that it is very important to support the cut motion by the hon. Member from Mawlai. Mr. Speaker Sir, we have seen in most cases that payments of land compensations to the land  owners has not been made at all up till now by the Department concerned. As the hon. member from Mawlai has said that four years have already  passed and that we are now entering into the fifth year of our term it is very  very correct that our term will expire only in 1977 and we do not know whether any one of us now sitting here, will be returning successfully  in the next election or not. I think only a few of us have not yet known  properly of what they have been doing for the people and of what they are going to do for them. So am afraid how the people whom we represent will feel and think of our  performance as their representatives and how they will feel also about what we are doing during the last four years. Now Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I said there are many pending cases of land  compensation yet to be paid to the land owners for the reason that their lands have been taken by the Government for the purpose of road construction and other purposes. I do not know what are the difficulties and impediment which stand in the way of the Government to dispose of the cases as quickly as possible. Mr. Speaker Sir, as I have given this cut  motion  I want to say something with regard to one particular road which has been taken up by the Government. Due to many impediments on the part of the Government  there was no speedy construction of this road and  many people falling within the area where this road passes have come to me again and again for land compensation. They have either verbally or by written representation to the Government requested me to help them  in getting land compensation from the Government. Mr. Speaker Sir,  I remember in 1972 that the Minister of State in charge of P.W.D came along that road to that side and I happened to accompany him. But you know it was very surprising that before we reached our destination we were all of a sudden prevented from going any further by one lady lands owner. Of course the Minister had to come with me  and other officers had to stop there. So we from that side had requested the Minister to expedite payment of land compensation and the Minister also had promises to dispose of this matter as quickly as possible. Mr. Speaker Sir, as far as I learn uptil now  not even records have been sent to the Department concerned with regard to this matter. Sir, the officers also have come many times to me and when I complained that the road  condition is very bad, they said that it is very difficult on their part since the people do not  allow them to construct the road because land compensation has not been paid to the  land owner up till now. Moreover Mr. Speaker Sir, along that very road there is also one bridge between the Kynsew-Nongthliew villages. That bridge is like a camel back and it is lying like a pig on one river without completion. When we enquire into the matter, they said that the land owners did not allow the Department concerned to do any work on both sides of the bridge like filling up of earth on both sides etc. The work remains  half done because of so many troubles in connection with land compensation. Therefore, Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to get a categorical reply from the Minister in charge regarding this portion far road as this road  is very very important and we all know that Nongthliew is one of the most important  places in which the best potato could be found. So I would request the Government to kindly sped up completion of the road right from Mawmaram- Nongthliew up to Mawmih and also payment of land compensation to the actual land owners where that road passes should be made as early as possible before the end of 1977.

*Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to support the cut motion moved by the hon. Member from Mawlai. Sir, there is a discriminatory policy in matter of acquisition of land by the Government in the Public Works Department and other Department also and the manner in which the Government is dealing with land  compensation cases of land owners is not at all satisfactory. Sir, I would like to discuss about this discriminatory acquisition of land where the construction of road is taken up by the Government. In this connection I have seen there is no policy at all which the Government has  followed in matters of land acquisition for road construction as a whole. We have also heard some time that the Public Works Department  has chalked out schemes for road construction from one part to another in the State and they have in fact some extent surveyed the road alignment. They have taken the measurement i.e., of the size whether  it would be 12 ft or 20 ft or 80 ft or 100 ft and so on and so forth in width before the road was to be constructed. But Sir, there was  no formal acquisition of land as it is used to be according to the scheme. Sometimes we find in some portions of the road they have acquired only 50 ft wide and in certain portions 80 ft wide from one side of the road to the other. So there was no uniformity at all in this roads. We have found that the people are facing a lot of difficulties. For instance when the road from Shillong to Mawngap was constructed they used to go to Nongstoin and Balat from Mawkriah and there at Mawkriah the house near the road side have been encroached at the time of construction of the road and this is due to widening of the road that has been taken up by the Government for construction. There are pillars by the side of the road which has been black topped and  the width of the road is about 10 to 12 feet and both sides of the road have encroached the compound  of the road side of the house. Sir, in some places where the people are extending their wet cultivation, they are facing difficulties because their paddy fields have been taken away by the Government. We find in some cases when the land is not cultivable the Government have taken possession only a narrow portion on both sides of the road. But in other cases where the land is cultivable, the Public Works Department  have taken a bigger portion of the area. So, there is no uniformity in matter of road acquisition . So Mr. Speaker Sir, this is the actual state of affairs that is happening in our areas. Because of all these, there is no uniformity in acquiring land for the construction of roads.

        Sir, I also would like to refer to another instance. The Government have acquired land at Nongstoin for construction of the Sub Divisional headquarters there. Now the Government have occupied all the areas and the people there, who have been living for the last so many years, have been asked to vacate the area and remove their hearth and  home. Sir, in this connection I would like to express my feeling that so far as our State is concerned we have got a very limited  area for wet cultivation. Our State is not like that of other States which have got plenty of plain areas for cultivation of rice and other essential commodities. Therefore, I would like to suggest to the  Government through you  Sir, that our Government should not construct a house or make towns and establish factories and other  industrial units by taking over cultivable lands. Sir, there is a hue and cry at Nongstoin now and the people are protesting against the  Government for their taking over paddy fields and other cultivable land. Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to suggest to the Government that there are other areas at Nongstoin within the surroundings of the  present head quarters and the Government should construct the headquarters within these areas for the development of the area.

Mr. Speaker : Mr. Lyngdoh, you will please confine within the scope of this cut motion.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to stress my point on the failure of the Government to acquire land in a proper place. Sir, regarding the acquisition of land we have heard from the Chief Minister that for the selection of the sites the Government will have to depend on the advise of the expert. So it seems that the Government will have to agree with the experts for such acquisition of land even of the Government do not like that particular portion of the land. But Sir, so far we have heard that the construction of houses  in the wet areas is not hygienic at all. So, I would like to draw the attention of the Government to the fact that we cannot accept this policy of the Government in taking over the cultivable lands for construction of houses and factories. But at least in Byrnihat this sort of thing has happened. So this is my only submission with which I want to support the cut motion moved by the hon. Member from Mawlai.

Shri H.E. Pohshna : Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to speak a few words in support of the Cut Motion. Sir, I fully agree with the hon. Members and I would like to add something more. It is true Sir, that in the case of town areas, the Government have taken prompt action. But in the case of villages areas they are very slow in taking any action.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, he may kindly be asked to speak louder because we cannot hear.

Mr. Speaker : Yes, please come to the Microphone.

Shri H.E. Pohshna : Mr. Speaker Sir, there are various instances in the town areas. For example in Jowai town, when there is any case acquisition of land, prompt action is taken by the S.D.C. and those officer-in-charge. But in the case of villages, they have taken very slow action and many compensation cases are long pending. This is very serious problem and it is really a discrimination. Sir,  even if we go by Jowai road and it there is any encroachment by the villagers at Umulong and in some other places far away from Jowai town, the D.C. will order to dismantle any structure raised by the people. But at the very entrance of Jowai at the gate where there are congested buildings no action has been taken. Any way Sir, I won't take a long time. As the Mover of the cut motion has spoken very clearly on this point, I think some of us, of course specially myself will not like the old song and I do hope that the new songs are good for those people who know how to twist and rock and roll. Sir,  during the time of the last Government when the P.W.D. paid the compensation the people used to go and meet the present Revenue Minister and today we are very lucky that the Revenue Minister happens to be the in charge and who is the same man who used to help us last time and we have many hopes that matters will be expedited. With these few words Sir, I support the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : There are 3 main issues raised in this cut motion.

        (1) There is discrimination between the people on the part of the Government for paying compensation to the people owning vast areas and the people owning small areas. No.(2) There is an allegation that there is discrimination between the town areas and the rural areas and No.(3) is payment of compensation and non payment of compensation to land owners in the Mawmaram to Mawmih Road. These are the 3 main issues  but what Mr. H.S. Lyngdoh referred, Government will take note  of it but it does not come under the purview of the cut motion.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : Mr. Speaker Sir, I stand to oppose the cut motion. Sir, I feel that the Members who supported this cut motion especially the hon. Mover from Mawlai, is not very serious. It appears that the intention of the cut motion is to raise a discussion about the discrimination policy of the Government in matters land acquisition which according to my humble understanding, the hon. Members will speak something on the policy adopted by the the Government in  acquiring land somewhere according to the procedure and somewhere else not according to the procedure. But it appears that he has brought this cut motion to raise a discussion on land compensation cases generally. As a matter of fact this matter has been brought to then House every now and then, and Government also over and over again has promised to take up take up the matter  as early as possible. In doing so the hon. Mover has charge the the Government or rather the Minister in charge Revenue by saying something here on the  floor of the House and something outside, and judging the intention of the cut motion the hon. Mover and Minister in charge at at par, because he is intending to bring one cut motion but he is speaking in a different line. From this, I can say that he is not very serious with his cut motion because he had already anticipated a reply.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : I think the general procedure is that the Minister should reply.

Mr. Speaker : The Minister in charge will reply and the other hon. Members will also have the rights to seek clarification.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Definitely.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : I do not say that I am replying for the Minister.

Mr. Speaker : I think it is better to avoid insinuating remarks.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : I have not made any insinuating remarks and I think it is a remark made by the hon. Member from the other side. If it is an insinuation merely because I am to recollect what  has been said, then I think it is an insinuation that originated from the hon. Member himself (Laughter). That is my humble opinion that the reply has already been anticipated by the hon. Member. I think that he is fully convinced that there was a dearth of staff and that they have been recently appointed. At the same time he remarked that they will sing the old song on those old cases brought by him every now and then.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Let us hear from the Government, whether they will sing the same tune or not.

Mr. Speaker : That is up to the Minister.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : And not from the Member .

Mr. Speaker : The hon. Member is also anticipating (Laughter)

Shri Humphrey Hadem : So Sir, I would rather say, as already stated by the hon. Member, that actually the Government has taken steps in the matter, but in view of the insufficiency of staff, Government are trying their level best to appoint the necessary staff and most of the cases have been disposed of by the Government recently. I hope not only in Jaintia Hills, but throughout the State this question of land acquisition is being dealt with by the Government, and we hope  that within a short space of time, say 2, 3 or4 months Government will so a lot in connection with this land compensation problem. As such, since the hon. Member has seen what has been done and that the Government is trying its level best. I do not see any reason why I should not vehemently oppose the cut motion.

Shri Dlosing  Lyngdoh : I rise to oppose the cut motion and would also refuse the point raised by the hon. Member Mr. Edward Kharbuli from Sohiong. As far as I can understand he said that the compensation for the road from Mawmih has not been paid. But I understand that work on this road has not been done and most of the people and the leaders on that side have not allowed the survey party to do even the survey work and so the case of this particular road might  have not been sent to the Revenue Department as the hon. Member has said. So it is very unfortunate that compensation cannot be paid until and unless the survey work and assessment have been done. Particularly on the point from Mawmih up to the connection point of the road from Mawmaram, the work ahs not been touched though there is a Block road from Mawmih to Mawliangut. So since it is in this condition, it is difficult on the part of the Government to pay land compensation and it is very unfortunate on the part of the Member to say that or to put the blame on the Government for non payment  of land compensation.

Shri Edward Kurbah : This half portion of the road from Mawmaram to Nongthliew.

Mr. Speaker : Here you have put the road from Mawmaram to Mawmih.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh : Sir while reading the cut motion, I used my powerful spectacles (laughter) I am sure the hon. Member mentioned in his cut motion from Mawmaram to Mawmih. As already pointed out by Mr. Hadem the hon. Mover  is not so serious with his cut motion but only want to get some information from the  Minister concerned. So I need not take mush time of the House as I hope the hon. Member from Mawlai will not be serious as he does not look to be serious in fact so he will not take his motion seriously. With these few words, I oppose the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : Mr. S.P. Swer.

Shri S.P. Swer : Mr. Speaker Sir, I stand to oppose the cut motion. The hon. mover from Mawlai said that there is discrimination in respect of compensation to villages and weaker sections of the people in the State. We know that land compensation cases generally come while making roads on the rural areas especially, and we know also that a great backlog  of  compensation cases was pending to be disposed of by this Government. We know also that the process of land acquisition is a time consuming process. I do not agree that the Governor treated the weaker section of road does not mean that the road will be constructed on the lands of  the weaker sections only but it has  to go by alignment, and it has to go by engineering survey. The only differences is that the acquisition of land for  construction of the road is small but the acquisition of land for other big project so big. Therefore, it is not correct o say that the Government  do not agree to expeditiously settle the compensation cases for those land owners whose lands are acquired only a small areas. We are also  aware of the steps taken by the  Government in this regard and we know that the department is strengthening the officers and staff for disposal  of the cases. As the hon. Member from Umroi, Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh said that he hoped that these cases will be disposed  of by the  Government as early as possible. I also hope that the Government will dispose of these cases as expeditiously as possible. But I would also suggest that compensation of land for construction of road should be taken up, section wise-not on the whole length but section wise- section 1, section 2, section 3 and so on- because there are so many sections on the length of the road. Therefore, I would suggest that point to the Government . With these few words, Mr. Speaker Sir, I oppose the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : I think I better close the discussion before it becomes more academic. Now I will ask the Minister to reply.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh, Minister Revenue etc : Mr. Speaker Sir, this matter as the hon. Member had stated at the outset, was a matter that had been discussed in this House several times because it was indeed a matter of long pending grievances over the years since our previous  Government about the compensation for lands taken for public works and public undertakings. Many of these  cases, as stated by the hon. Member are pending for about 10 to 15 years. This Government had come into  being for the last 6 years or so and we have inherited only a very very small staff to do the work regarding this very great problem of great magnitude. However, we welcome the suggestions and reminders from the Members to expedite as far as possible the disposal of land compensation cases.

Mr. Speaker : The specific case is only of Mawmaram-Mawmih road and others are about discrimination.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh, Minister Revenue etc : Sir, on discrimination I would definitely state here that it does not exist. There is no question of discrimination in respect of making payment of compensation for the lands taken. This we deny and it appears to our Members here and there that some cases are being quickly disposed of and others are not, it is not because of discrimination but because of the different nature of the cases like accessibility of the lands involved and so and so forth. I have also noted  as Mr. Hadem had said, that so far as discrimination is concerned, I hope the hon. Member would not entertain any idea of discrimination in this matter. Naturally cases involving far flung areas and areas where we have no documents of possession, holdings or ownership of land are very very difficult  cases. So in order to complete the work it will naturally take more time may be more than a year or so which is quite different from areas nearby. Take the case of Mawlai Water Supply Schemes. This is very near and also they have the records and documents and boundaries and well defined by fences. So this case should be disposed of more quickly. But the hon. Member should bear in mind that we have no bias for the urban people or that we are considering the urban areas more. So I would request the hon. Member not to have any doubts on the intention of the Government and Officers on the question of compensation of payment to those poor people. We are very much concerned about this and the difficulties and hardships caused to them, and we are very serious about it. In  spite of the difficult financial position we have gone ahead with the recruitment of officers very recently. A large  number of them have been recruited specially for the purpose and administration and other works. Again we have to give them some training and this also will take some time. But I hope that with the increased number of staff, we will be able to expedite the cases. I would also request the Members to appreciate the fact that during the recent years there has been a tremendous increase in the volume of work  for constructing a new roads, dispensaries and other types of construction for the Army, the Air Force and the BSF. So with the same staff we inherited from Assam about five years ago, it is very difficult to cope with the work. Therefore, with the increase in the numbers of staff which we have recruited  and with little training, I would assure the hon. Member that the work will be expedited. So on the cut motion of the hon. Member, Mr. Khongwir, I have nothing more to say and I hope he is convinced that we are going to do our best and I also hope that he will not entertain that idea that Government discriminates. So I would request the hon. Member to withdraw his cut motion.

        Now, I would refer to the case of Mr. Kurbah, from Sohiong constituency. This is with regard to the construction of the road from Mawmaram to Mawmih. Sir, I will take this opportunity to explain the difficulties  we have to face for the construction of roads in the rural areas and especially in this case. The people of the locality on the one hand wanted that the road should be constructed early and they would not even like to wait and wanted that the road be started forthwith. Mr. Swer has also mentioned  about this. They wanted the department to the work immediately and land compensation would be taken up afterwards. So this road was constructed with the agreement of the people and the understanding of the land owners concerned to give advance possession of the land to Government. The people agreed to this because they are very much interested to have a road constructed quickly through their village. Now of course it is true that the compensation cases are still pending. The papers are completed only in the last December and the Public Works Department had sent them to the Revenue Department. I would request the hon. Member to bear with us the [processing of compensation cases is a very lengthy one. Measurement is to be taken, then description of the land, boundaries, preparation of maps ownerships and so on. It is a very complicated and lengthy process and in this case the papers were forwarded to the Revenue Department only on the 23rd December 1975. The Revenue Department when they scrutinised these papers found a lot of mistakes and incorrect statement. So, these are  sent back to the department for correction so that no complications will arise at the time of payment of compensation. This again  will take some time  as there will be many correspondences between the Public Works Department. So now since these cases are being finalised, notification will be issued very soon and I hope that there will be no more difficulty in payment of compensation.

        So, in view of these facts that I have  stated, I would request the hon. movers to kindly withdraw their cut motions.

Shri Edward Kurbah : Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like some clarification in this matter i.e., the delay in processing these cases. Whether it is a fact that the delay in finalization of these cases was because the papers were not forwarded to Revenue Departments but to the District Councils in the first instance.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh, Minister Finance : Mr. Speaker Sir, I am  not aware of that.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Mr. Speaker Sir, the hon. Finance Minister has very correctly used the word 'appear'. Mr. Speaker Sir,  here I had the intention to move this cut motion and why I said the word' discrimination' or' discriminatory' policy it is because  of the experiences I have had with the people. We, as  representatives  have found people used to come to us and voice their grievances to us so that we in turn will go to the Government and speak to the Minister or Officers. Generally, Sir, in this matter, I have experienced myself not only in the case of Mawlai, not only in the Bhoi area, but in some other places also. People used to come and meet us and they used to express the same opinion that I had expressed in this House today. They said "Mr. Khongwir, the Government is very  discriminatory". In so far we remember, some cases there in Byrnihat and other places within no time the owners of the land  have receive their compensation. But what about us? We came to you, please help us please speak to the "Government ". So I feel Sir, that is one of our duties is to help the people. We used to meet not only the Minister and Officers but also we have to come out of our way and used to discuss with them about these difficulties. There are several instances Mr. Speaker Sir, with another particular case at Umroi. I had to write letters. I had  to visit and discuss with the officers more than five or six times. They  used to request the owners of the land to go for a joint verification and inspection. They have been there for several times but nothing has  come out. These are the instances that I have brought before the House  and it appears not only to me but to those persons outside who are not here that the Government is following this policy of discrimination. So if at all we are to explain to the people, it is the Government as the hon. Minister has been trying his best to explain it to me that I should  that feeling or idea or opinion that the Government is discriminatory. Of course to me because I am here, I can hear and listen to what the Minister has said and I  may be convinced and I am also convinced. But what is our duty to the people? Mr. Speaker Sir, I will not dwell any longer on this point but it is our joint endeavour and efforts to tell the people what the Minister has just said so that we will not have that idea or opinion that the Government is discriminating. Mr. Speaker Sir, in course of the discussion several hon. Member have sanctimoniously judged especially in the case of the hon. Member from Mynso what he said this word, he should have  sanctimoniously judged that I have not been very serious in this matter while bringing forth this cut motion. I do not know how best Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member has been able to judge me because here, we are 59 including yourself and the Deputy Speaker. We have 59 and each one of us has got our own behavior.

Mr. Speaker : Has he said 59?

Shri S.D. Khongwir : I have seen only 59 with the exception of the hon. Member from Nongkhlaw in this particular session.

Mr. Speaker : Mr. Khongwir, in any case I think we should not come to personal matter. it is a House of 60. Whether the Member is absent from the House or not that is a different matter.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : All of us have got different behaviour and attitude. I do not know how I appear when I speak. It may be that while speaking seriously  I may be smiling. At the same time, I do not think it is correct to say Mr. Speaker Sir, that particular member has not been serious. How can he come inside and judge whether I am serious or not.

Mr. Speaker : Well Mr. Khongwir I have already said that personal insinuation is not allowed in the House or reflection against any member.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Mr. Speaker Sir, in view of the reply and the assurance  of the Minister that he will look into this case and that more staff and officers will be appointed to deal with this heavy back leg of compensation cases, I withdraw my Cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : Has the hon. Member leave of this House, to withdraw the motion.

(Voices- Yes , yes) This cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn.

        Let us now come to another cut motion which stands in the name of Shri D.N. Joshi.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Mr. Speaker Sir, before I decide to move my cut motion, may I be allowed to speak a few words as per this budget speech?

Mr. Speaker : No, this is not allowed unless you move your cut motion first.

Shri D.N. Joshi : It appears that the Government has not prepared so far to set up training centres for personnel for surveys and since I have already expressed my vies on this, I will not move my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : Since the hon. Member is not willing to move his cut motion let me put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of  Rs.12,07,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the  course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head "229-Land Revenue"

(Motion was carried and demand passed )

        Now the Minister in charge of Stamps and Registration to move Grant No.2

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh Minister Stamps and Registration : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.60,000, be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "230-Stamps and Registration"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. the question is that an amount of Rs.60,000, be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "230- Stamps and Registration"

(The motion was adopted and demand passed)

        The Minister in charge of Excise now  to move Grant No.8.

Shri E. Bareh Minister Excise : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.4,84,000, be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "239-State Excise"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. But I have received as many as three cut motions on this Grant. the first cut motion in the name of Shri H.S. Lyngdoh, then Shri Rowell Lyngdoh and Shri W. Syiemiong. Any of them can move the cut motion.

Shri H.S. Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.4,84,000 under grant No.8, major head "239-State Excise" at page 40 of the Budget be reduced to Re.1 .i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs.4,48,000 do stand reduced to Re.1.

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now you can initiate the discussion.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, in moving this cut motion on Grant No.8 I would only dwell on one point which has been mentioned in the cut motion and that is on the Governments adoption of the Excise Act and also on its implementation. But Sir, so far as it it is at present, the Government have not at all fully implemented the Excise Act in the whole State. Of course, the Government is to be congratulated because they have in fact managed the excise  as was done in the year 1975. They have checked illegal distillation and trade on the G.S. Road, right from Mawngap to Shillong. We have seen, Sir that they have checked  or carried out raids at certain places  where there were unauthorized distillation. The  places were at Sohiong and other areas. Sir, these raids have helped very much in checking the extensive use of rice for distillation. But,  Sir, as it is at present while distillation to a certain extent has been stopped in places like Sohiong which was the main centre all along illegal distillation has developed in other parts of the State in the  western part of the Khasi Hills like Lyngkhoi, Pariong which is my constituency and Langiong and also in the jungles. With regard to these, Sir, we do not see that the Government of the Departments has tried to sincerely check all these distilleries. So, Sir, on the objective of the Government that, as has been started earlier, illicit distillation of liquor would be minimised, we have now seen that there is no sign at all for measures with regard to prohibition in spite of the announcement made by the Prime Minister and which has already been discussed in the House on the 20 Point Programme. If at all the Government is to implement the Act fully, it should do so to check illicit distillation, if not total prohibition. So, Sir, I would only stress that on this point, and that it would only be a  harassment if the distillers of Sohiong are raided while there is no checking in other parts of the State. Sir, this in fact is a sort of discrimination if certain people are allowed to carry on this business of illegal nature while other people are allowed to carry on this business of illegal nature while other people have been raided. So, Sir, in the  context that the Government is at present implementing this Excise Act, I would make a submission that the Government should fully implement this Act throughout the State. With these few words, Sir, I move this cut motion.

(At this stage the Speaker left the Chamber and the Deputy Speaker occupied the Chair)

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, while supporting this cut motion moved by the hon. Member from Pariong, I would also say a few words on the policy of the Government in the matter of prohibition. I would like to say that the policy in this connection is not so clear; and, in fact we have been expecting that there would be a clear cut policy, throughout the State, and about the stand of the Government on this prohibition policy as per the 12 Point Programme of the Central Government. But on this, we understand that it is still under the consideration of the Government. So, I think we will have to wait  for what they are going to do. However if our Government thinks that it is impossible to do away with illegal distillation-I mean if it wishes that out State remains wet whereas other State are dry- I would suggest that this Government  should at least adopt some principles by which there should be option to prohibit drinking of liquor. If I remember correctly during the then Government of Assam while implementing the Assam Excise Act, they have one legislation which is called the Assam Temperance  Act where it has been laid down that, in principle, if  there is a demand for some out stills of liquor shop in those areas  there should be an election and if the majority of the inhabitants do not like the presence of an out still or liquor shop then the Government is going to adopt any policy to reduce the drunkenness of the people. I hope that this suggestion will be accommodated. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I have no doubt the the Excise revenue had increased in the State every year. Now that the emergency is on, the  people can feel its impact and that illicit distillation is more or less done away with. This has really helped the State Government. But in this connection, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would point out that the sane as it was allotted and appointed during the then partition  between Assam and Meghalaya. Whereas in Assam the Department in the Commissioner's office has got at least 2 Superintendent in the ministerial staff. But here we do not have even one Superintendent and I think there is only one U.D. Assistant in that office. Moreover, there are only a few LDAs in that Department. So, I think the work load has increased and I would request the Government to look into this Department and appoint more staff.

Shri E. Bareh, Minister Excise : Mr. Deputy Speaker , Sir, I think the Member has gone beyond the point. This is not under the policy.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, I would request the Hon. Minister concerned to be patient because this comes under the policy. All appointments and staffing pattern also come under the policy. There should be certain policy to implement these excise laws, Excise Acts in the State. And, by way of suggestion, I had suggested that the Government should look into the Department by increasing the staff also. Moreover, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I understand that the Government has thought to bring about some rules on the Excise Bonded Warehousing in the State, Sir. I understand that the rules have been framed and these rules have radically deviated from the  then Government of Assam's Rules. So, I think that in framing these rules power should be given to the District authority, as it used to be Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir.

        And, regarding the implementation of these excise laws Sir, in the matter of detection Sir, as the hon. Member from Pariong has stated that even in detection also, there is concentration only in the  Shillong areas or certain places. Of course, there are many places in the State where the people used to carry out illicit distillation, but  then the Excise Staff, it seems have not yet been able to deal with all the areas in the State and it seems that they need more and more staff and I would like, therefore, that the Government should as far as practicable attend to all these areas which use to deal in this illicit distillation as well as illicit sale of liquor. Moreover, I would suggest that in respect of renewal of licences which is being done every year and as per the 12 Point Programme initiated by the Central Government the Government should do away with or reduce these at least by stages, if not at once. So, with these few words Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I support the cut motion.

Shri W. S. Syiemiong : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, in supporting the Cut Motion moved by my friend from Pariong, and if I may, I would like only to add one particular point. The Member from Mawkyrwat has given his views in the implementation of Excise  Act as far as detection of cases is concerned. We know, Sir, that recently after the emergency quite a good number of cases of raids have been made and many illicit distillations have been detected, and,  many also of those culprits punished and arrested. We appreciate very much that the Government have been able to do that much. But  Sir, there is still a long way to go. If I am to put it simple, if only we would go to Mawphlang and Mawngap specially, we would be able to see what extent liquor still flows particularly towards Shillong. We know that after the emergency when people also have become a bit clever, it is difficult how to detect this. So, a strong intelligence force is necessary. From the budget, I see that there is provision of only 3,7000 rupees earmarked for intelligence. I think this is too small, Sir. Because this time, the people have become clever  and unless we have a strong intelligence force, it will be very difficult. I suggest that even  if we have to pay more, we should do it because  it is difficult for the Government to implement these Excise Acts properly. So, I would call upon the Government to look into this particular proposition of mine though last year I had already proposed which we see that the Government did not do anything. Let the Government take the proposal from our side also. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir.

Shri S.C. Marak, Minister of State Excise : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I am thankful to the hon. Member who has moved the cut motion and the hon. Members who have participated in the discussion. I do not really know when they have pointed out that the State Government is not implementing these Excise Acts and Rules. But I will inform the hon. Members that we have adopted the Assam Government's Excise Acts and Rules. Notification and Executive orders. And the Government has not infringed upon any provisions of these Acts and Rules in the matter of implementation.

        In respect of issuing of licences also, the Government followed the provisions of rules of the Excise Acts. And specially, these rules of the Excise Acts have been followed in respect of issuing of licences to bars, There are 7 bars in Shillong and one bar in Garo Hills and this opening of bar is meant to counteract the illicit sale and distillation of liquor in our State. The Government has also licensed these bars in accordance with the provisions of the executive instructions and this has been initiated on an experimental basis and as a measure to counteract the sale of illicit liquor. In this connection I would like to inform the hon. Members that under the Excise Act the hours of opening and closing of liquor shops and bars in the State are regulated. For the country spirit shop hours for opening and  closing are from 11 am to 6.p.m bars from 10 am to 10 pm, for foreign liquor shops from 16th to 15th October from 6 am to 7pm., 16th to 15th March from 7 am to 6pm. So these hours for opening and closing has been fixed under the provision of the Rule 350 and regarding issues of licences for liquor bars, out stills etc., the Government has followed the provision of Section 36 of the Excise Act and we have also levied a bail ability fee on issue of liquor from the Bonded Warehouse under the provisions of Sections 21 and 22, sub- section (ii) of the Excise Act. So I do not know why the hon. Mover says that we are not implementing this Excise Act. In fact we are implementing this Excise Act and Rules in their true letter and spirit. However, whatever our Hon. Members have suggested in this respect would be looked into. So in view of this assurance I request the hon. Mover to withdraw his cut motion.

Shri E. Bareh, Minister for Excise : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I would like to supplement a little to the reply given by the Minister of State for Excise. Sir, there are certain pertinent questions raised by the hon. Mover and other hon. Members who have supported the cut motion. One particular pertinent question raised by the Mover of the cut motion is that the Excise Act has not been implemented throughout the State. But I would like to tell in a very clear terms that we have implemented the Excise Act in our whole State of Meghalaya. Now So far as the question of illicit distillation is concerned we have always requested the hon. Members to give us information so that it can be detected effectively. And another matter that has  been raised by Mr. Rowell Lyngdoh is that the Government has not come out with a clear cut policy of prohibition. In this matter Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I may remind the hon. Members of his own statement when he said - "I agree to reduce the licenses by stages" That means he is also not in favour of total prohibition. We are also in favour of moderation and we have also made it clear in our Press Note that we will not allow drunken ness as it was so rampant before. We will check drunkenness. Another point raised by Mr. W. Syiemiong is that it is very difficult to detect the cases any further after we have tried once or twice in a particular area and we need a strong intelligence branch for which there is no provision of fund. So I would like to assure the hon. Member that we will try from some other source for fund in order to have a strong intelligence branch in this Department. So I hope with these little clarifications the hon. Mover of the  cut motion will kindly withdraw his cut motion, as has been requested by my Minister of State.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, my cut motion was that the Government is not implementing the Excise Act in its letter and spirit but the Minister of State has claimed that the Government is implementing it in its letter and spirit. Sir, it seems they are implementing this Excise Act only within Shillong and outside Shillong  if they have implemented anywhere it is in Sohiong. I fully agree that whereas truck loads of rice has been used for illicit distillation of liquor in Sohiong area alone, the Government has stopped that practice. But I am telling about the western part of Khasi Hills. We have seen nearly in every village, they have got their own distil very. For example, Lyngkhoi, Langiong, Nongspung and also in my constituency Pariong itself, people are expanding their distillation to cover up prohibition at Sohiong. If you go to Nongstoin right from Mairang you will  find pony carts are being used to carry jerrigans full of illicit liquor. Apparently it looks as if they are carrying petrol but it is illicit  liquor ....

Shri W.A. Sangma, Chief Minister : On a point of information may I know whether the hon. Member has ever brought these things to the notice of the Excise Department.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, I did not even report to all. That is not my business alone because I am not quite sure and so I am asking now here on the floor of the House. But the Government have not yet implemented the Excise Act and that is why I am bringing this cut motion here. It is a fact that the Government have not yet implemented this Excise Act as I already said. It is also true that the Syiems, the Lyngdoh, the Sirdars and the Basans of the elakas have not yet received anything from the Government to show that the Government has really implemented their Excise Act. Sir, it is also a fact that some Sirdars in the villages have allowed distillation of liquor in the villages. This is also the case with the Syiems, the Lyngdoh,  and the Basans  of some villages. The sale of  liquor and illicit distillation in some villages in the rural areas are going on. Sir, if you go along the road from Mairang towards Pyntharkhmah right up to Gauhati , you will find people carrying liquor in jerrigans and mobile oil tins. They used to carry liquor from Rongjeng towards Nonglang  to Boko and this business has become free like that of potato in the rural areas. So, Sir, for the time being if the Government implement the Excise Act in its true perspective, I believe there will be no necessity at all to open such branch in the State and this free transport of illicit liquor can be stopped. It is no need to keep a spy branch for this purpose because we all see that those people used to carry on this trade in the rural areas.

        Then Sir, another thing in connection with this illicit distillery and sale of liquor is that we have seen that logs and timbers used to be dumped in the compound of those distillery owners and the destruction of forests by those people is also very great in the interiors. So Sir, if the Minister concerned or the Government as a whole does not become alert of this fact, I am afraid distillation of illicit liquor cannot be prevented or stopped in future. The Hon'ble Minister has also assured that this matter here on the floor of the House, I hope this free sale and transportation of liquor from our State to outside the State will be checked in time. But there is no necessity at all to engage some spy or have an intelligence branch if only the Government implement the Excise Act now. Since the Minister has assured that he will look into the matter and consider all our suggestions I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion.

(Voices- Yes, yes)

        The cut motion is with leave of the House.

        But there is another cut motion which stands in the name of Shri D.N. Joshi. Mr. Joshi to move the motion please.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.4,48,000 under grants No.8 Major head "239- State Excise", at page 40 of the Budget be reduce by Rs.100 i.e., the amount of the whole grants of Rs.4,48,000 do stand reduced by Rs.100.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : Motion moved. Now you can initiate a discussion.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, much has been said on the policy of the Government on this subject. Even then I feel something is yet  to be said and dug deep in the minds of the Government regarding public grievances on the slackness of the Government in checking illicit sale and illicit distillation of liquor. Sir, on  the floor of this Assembly in 1972, the Leader of the House had said that this Government  is committed to a welfare State and also he had  said that eradication of  diseases, removal of poverty and illiteracy will be the main functions of this Government. It is through these three policy measures that the activities of the Government can be judged. Now coming first to disease, it is not only malaria or cancer or T.B that can be described as diseases. But taking of liquor and the way our people are taking it is also a very dreaded disease eating into  the very vitals of the society at large. The Government of India has given some programmes under the 12 Point Programme to bring about total stoppage of distillation and sale of liquor in a phased manner. But Sir, here in our State it is a very serious matter. I have seen that even teenagers in Shillong, students in High Schools and even in certain cases students going to M.E. Schools also have taken to the habit of drinking. It is only because there is no bar' there is no effective bar on the illicit distillation and on the sale of illicit liquor here in Shillong. But Sir, not only here in Shillong, I had the occasion to see that throughout the G.S. road down to Gauhati also there are stalls on the roads side in which selling of illicit liquor is rampant. Sale of liquor is still going on along that road and the road accidents most of the vehicular accidents on the road are due to the unrestrained and unchecked sale of liquor  on the road side. As my friend had just now said that it is an open secret, it does not require any spy to see and  find out how liquor distillated in one corner of the State passes on to another corner of the State in the very nose of the Government itself unchecked. Sir, to have the Excise Act implemented as said by the hon. Minister of Excise, who claims that it is fully implemented by the Government, but I do not know, Sir, what he earns by fully implemented. But I know that there is no check whatsoever on the distillation here in the very heart of the town and in certain localities. Almost 50 per cent of the Houses distillation is there. Sir, I do not want to name the place. I will also say that it is in the very heart of the towns i.e., in the western part of the town. Sir, it is going on rampantly and unchecked and they say that there is a limit. But Sir, I have found that the people are not sticking to any time limit. Even at 11 P.M. or 12 O' clock at night the people go there and get drunk in those places here in the Police Bazar. However, raids were made and we thought that illicit trade on this liquor would be stopped. But to my dismay, I must say, that it is going on as before here in Police Bazar which is very near to the Assembly House. So, Sir, it is not only cast reflection on the leaders of our society. Therefore I urge upon the Government to put a limit to it and find out ways and means to stop all these unchecked unrestrained and illicit distillation of liquor and undesirable sale not  only for the adults but also for the growing citizens of our State. This is not only harmful to the health of the people in Shillong or in Khasi Hills but this disease is common to all the parts of the world. So, Sir, with these few words, I again urge upon the Government to see that it is stopped once and for all.

Shri D.D. Lapang : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while participating in the discussion of this cut motion I have found no rhyme or reason or the convincing grounds as stated by the hon. Mover of the cut motion and as such I am compelled to oppose the cut motion. I am fully convinced that the performance of the Excise Department is very much satisfactory and it more satisfactory than the previous years. I would like to appeal to the hon. Member to be reasonable and talk with facts and figures. The Excise Department in spite of certain drawbacks and difficulties faced by it has done a commendable job. The staff of the Excise Department do not have quarters and the police constabularies are not having vehicles to move about. They have only one vehicle which has been inherited from the Assam Government and which is not in running condition at all. They are also having certain difficulties due to  shortage of staff. But in spite of all these difficulties, if we care to look back to their records and if we care to collect them from  source available we will find that during last year the detected cases were 450. But this year the number is 800 and illicit liquor seized from the distillery last year was five thousand and this year it is ten  thousand and fined money received from the accused persons last years was Rs.27,000 and this year it is about Rs.36,000 and it is only up to February this year. In Shillong alone. Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, last year the raid cases were 27 in number. But this year it is 67. The member of cases registered last year was 77 but this year it is 200. Where are the rhyme and reason? Is it that the Excise Department is not functioning well? Further Mr. Speaker Sir, by stamping out  illicit distillation, the sale of liquor from the Government licensed distilleries in Khasi Hills has gone up very much even that of last year. Last year the sale of country liquor was 3 lakhs bottles. But this year, it  is seven bottles. This is already there in Unstarred Question No.41 and every member has got a copy of this question. It will speak for itself and let the Member satisfy themselves by going through Unstarred Question No.41. And the Mover said that measures for the restriction  of liquor have not been imposed by the Department. I may inform the House that the department has issued licenses to bars but they cannot open the bars openly whenever they like. By having this control it means that the Government will control random selling of foreign liquor and on top of that there is a time limit for opening and closing of these bars. Besides this there is also restriction for having any jam sessions arranged by such bars. They cannot do openly. For this  they will have to get the prior permission from the D.C. We were also given an indication that this year as many as 8 jeeps were suspended and penalised by suspending their licences as they were carrying illicit liquor. So the Government have been very much alert and vigilant on the subject. As for one instance, I remember it quite well that in June, 1975, one Shri Kharke B. Sonar was penalised by the Magistrate and was find Rs.300 for carrying 19 jerrigans of illicit liquor containing 380 litres. This driver Sonar carried this liquor in car No. MLS-2001 and the owner of the jeep is Shri Promode Kr. Joshi  and the owner of the jeep happens to be the son of the Mover, Shri Joshi. So I think the hon. Member would have dropped the case by congratulating the Department that they have so sincere in their duties. The Department has penalised the owner of the car who happens to be the son of the hon. Mover. So I congratulate the Excise Department for not sparing anyone.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, on a point of order. There is a convention that the person cannot be brought to the House who cannot come to defend himself.

Shri D.D. Lapang : I am speaking this because it is no longer a secret. It is a fact. And with these few words I resume my seat.

Shri  H.E. Pohshna : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, because I used to speak about this figure. I was thinking that I will not participate but because of the statistics given by the hon. Member from Nongpoh I am tempted to speak. He has said that he will appeal to the  mover of the cut motion to be reasonable and I also request to the hon. Member who opposed the cut motion to be reasonable also. Why I say like that is because of the very fact that the hon. Member who opposed the cut motion  has to mention the vehicle number. That very fact shows that the Mover of the cut motion is very very reasonable, inspite of the fact that he knows that such things happened. I won't care if my son is taken to Hajat for drinking because it is reasonable but the hon. Mover  to be charged of being unreasonable, I think it is very unfair.

        Sir, I now come to the statistics. So many cases have been detected huge amount of fines has been imposed. May I request the hon. Members to acquaint this House with the tonnage of liquor foreign made liquor in the State that has not been mentioned. Therefore, I request the hon. Member to be more reasonable. Sir, the cut motion here is to ventilate the grievances of the public on the slackness of the Government in checking illicit sale and illicit distillation of liquor. The Chief Minister also having heard the statement made by the hon. Member from Pariong inside the House about wide spread illicit sale of liquor in his area has asked the hon. Member if he has ever reported these cases to the Government. For this I am very grateful to the Chief Minister and he reminds me of one very very important fact that our Government is fully aware that the co-operation of all walks of like should be forthcoming. They have consultative committee be constituted for excise because from the question asked by the Chief Minister, it seems as if the hon. Members of this House are going to be honorary excise officers and they are to report to the Government about the existence of illicit liquor shops.

Shri W.A. Sangma, Chief Minister : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, it is in the context of getting the cooperation in respect of all the subjects that the hon. Members should given their timely information so that Government can act quickly.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna : That is the spirit that we want. Therefore I suggest that a consultative committee on excise also be formed in order that the Chief Minister  be enlightened of the situation. Now I am very grateful to the hon. Member who opposed the cut motion. He has taken the trouble of getting all statistics, it shows the seriousness on the part of some Ministers of this House. Therefore, when we could constitute consultative Committees for other departments, I think it is high time that we should also form consultative committees on excise in order that cooperation from the Members will be forthcoming.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand to oppose the cut motion and I am very glad to hear from the observation made just now by one of the hon. Members when he said that all of us will be involved in the consultative committee excise. But Sir, if Government have not included the hon. Member  I would request the Government to include him in that Committee. As far as I am concerned, I do not have any time to be a Member of such a committee. Anyhow, I will now come to the cut motion directly. The hon. Member of course by bringing this cut motion  which appears to be a token cut, which according to rule, must be a very specific motion. But what I find is that even the notice given for this cut motion is vague, it says "to ventilate the grievances of the public for the slackness of the Government in checking illicit sale and distillation of liquor". Even during the discussion it seems that it is still more vague and not specific. The hon. Member had pointed out one particular locality where 50 per cent of the houses are involved in illicit sale and distillation of liquor. But when he was asked where is that particular place, he said that he will not disclose it.

Shri D.N. Joshi : I did not say I will not disclose, but I said that Government should find out and I had given the direction.

Shri H. Hadem : One of the conditions for admissibility of the cut motion is that it should be specific. But the hon. Member as mentioned on the floor of the House that in a certain locality such things exist in the contravention of the provisions of law. I think it is proper for him to indicate that particular place, but he did not do that. Lastly, the hon. Member had called the House, especially the Government to cooperative in the implementation of the 12 Point Prohibition Programme which the Government had already embarked upon to the full extent. Now if the Minister starts implementing the 12 Point Programme then the other friends will have nothing to do. I would like the hon. Member not to judge from the wording or from the language but to judge the action taken. With these few words Sir, I strongly oppose the cut motion.

Prof Alexander Warjri : Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to oppose the cut motion. It is very easy to see the defects of others. But it is difficult to see one's own defect. The mover, Mr. Joshi, the hon. Member from cantonment, has pointed out so many instances of unchecked sale of liquor. He said that even young people are not protected from the influence of liquor. All this, he said is due to Government's failure to check illicit sale and distillation of liquor. As far as I know, the Excise Department has done its level best. Especially as far as Khasi Hills District is concerned, they have done their level best to raid and arrest quite a number of persons. A number of cases are pending in the Shillong Court  and these cases speak for themselves in favour of the Excise Department. But there are few instances as pointed out by him here and there in which things cannot be detected as we would which by department consisting of a few constables and much fewer Sub Inspectors and 2 Inspectors. What is to be expected of these small group of officers to check all the cases. We are expecting  that only Government should do all these things. The Legislature may pass laws prohibiting this and that, but unless people especially the leaders co-operate with the Government, no law can completely do away with any evil. As reference  is made to the young people being under the influence of liquor. Is this, I ask here, the failure of the Government? Why don't we search our hearts? Is it not the failure of the parents? Is it not the failure of teachers? Is it not the failure  elders of the villages to instruct, to educate and to give the young. And if we see liquor  being sold openly, have we not the  courage to do away with this? What for do we have the village durbars. I remember in a few villages here in Shillong, some time back at least Mawlai, Malki and Rynjah, the people themselves, not the Police, not the Excise Department had done away with the sale of liquor. It is, therefore no use on the part of the Government to pass the law unless the people  cooperate with it. Therefore, I would urge that we should not only  try to pin point the failures of the Government but now and then to search ourselves to make our people consider themselves how they would like to put into effect the laws passed by the Legislature and, as such, I oppose the cut motion.

Shri Salseng C. Marak, Minister of State Excise : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I am thankful to Mr. D.N. Joshi the hon. Member for Cantonment  for his expressed concern over the slackness of the Government in checking illicit sale and distillation of liquor. But I will not agree to his contention. In spite of inadequacy of staff, the Excise Department is doing commendable works to check and stamp out illicit sale and distillation of liquor in our State. The figure showing the number of cases detected under the Excise Act during 1974-75 and 1975-76 upto February will show the volume of works done by this Department. For the information of the members in 1973-74 the numbers of cases detected was 462 and fermented wash seized was 460 litres and illicit liquor 4846.148 litres. In 1974-75 the number of cases detected 585 fermented wash seized 3617.900 litres and illicit liquor 5392.452. In 1975-76 upto February only, the total cases detected-1013 and fermented wash seized 17,637,100 litres and illicit  liquor-10682.687. So there is an upward rise. All these figures will show that out Excise Department is not sleeping. Inspite of inadequacy of staff, they are doing their best to stamp out the illicit sale and distillation of liquor. For the information of the hon. Mover, I will give the figures of the excise cases in Shillong also. He mentioned  about Shillong cases mostly. In 1973-74, the number of raids  19 and number of cases detected 44 and illicit sale of liquor-152. Total cases-196 and number  of persons  arrested  145 fine recovered Rs.6927 and cases disposed  so far-182. In 1974-75, number of raids-27 and number of cases of distillation-77 and number of cases of illicit sale detected : 135 ; Total : 212; number of persons arrested : 160 ; fines recovered : Rs.15,555/-; number of cases disposed of : 178.

        For 1975-76 the number of raids : 67 number of cases of illicit distillation detected : 198; number of cases detected in illicit sale of liquor : 286; total number of cases : 484; number of persons arrested : 342; fines recovered : Rs.24,681 and number of cases disposed of : 335.

        Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, we have taken into custody under MISA as many as six persons and 20 vehicles are detected carrying illicit liquor and the license of seven of them have been suspended. In Shillong most of the illicit distillers are Nepalese. These people live in Mawprem, Barapathar, Mawlonghat and Cantonment area. So  Government is making all out efforts to stamp out the sale of illicit liquor and distillers. Then another point which was raised by the hon. Mover is about the implementation of the 12 Point Programme on prohibition. This, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, is not a directive from the Central Government directly, but a recommendation from the Central Prohibition Board and we have received this directive only very recently.

Shri Maham Singh : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, may I interrupt. I wonder why cases are detected only in Mawprem and Cantonment as mentioned by the Minister now. What about other constituencies.

Shri E. Bareh, Minister Excise : It is not given locality wise. It is for the whole of Shillong.

Shri Maham Singh : But the Minister has specifically mentioned only Mawprem and Cantonment.

Shri E. Bareh, Minister Excise : That is where most of the culprits live.

Shri Maham Singh : I would appeal to all the Members to be more active in this regard.

Shri Salseng C. Marak, Minister of State Excise : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, it is no use talking here unless we have the help and cooperation of all the other members. I would especially appeal to the Member who moved this cut motion to come forward and extend his help to Government  so that it will be able to check this sale of illicit liquor and distillation. He could give us any information which would be of help to us, as the Department with its inadequate staff cannot totally stamp out the illicit sale and distillation of liquor. So I would request the hon. Members to come forward and extend their valuable cooperation to the Government so that all these may be checked.

Shri  H.E. Pohshna : I suggest that we go to Nongpoh tonight.

Shri E. Bareh Minister Excise : We will go provided you show us the place.

Shri Salseng C. Marak, Minister of State Excise : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, the suggestions given by the hon. Member have been noted down and will be looked into and in view of this, I would request the hon. Members to withdraw their cut motion.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, now Government has admitted that it is very much seized of the problem and the implication is that they are aware of what I have said that the sale and distillation of illicit liquor is increasing day by day. The hon. Minister had the occasion just now to apprise the House of the facts and figures that he ahs read our. So from this statement it is seen that the detection of cases is also increasing. I must assume that the staff has greatly endeavored in their work even though it is not adequate. I say this because with the same number of staff they have detected  more cases. In the year 1974-75 the cases are less than in 1975 while in 1973-74 the cases are less than for 1974-75. So we can conclude that the sale and distillation of illicit liquor is on the increase. This is a fact and by implication Government has also accepted it.

        I am also very much thankful to my friend from Nongpoh. He has given us valuable data and statistics and by implications, I can say that he has also supported my views that the sale and distillation of illicit liquor is on the increase. He has also brought to light the fact regarding the carrying of illicit liquor by  a jeep which belongs to one of my sons. In this connection I would like to say to the House that the fact is the jeep was taken to the garage for repair. When it was finished it was taken out for trial. On the day of the trial a new driver was also appointed. This driver on that very day took undue advantage to earn money by carrying illicit liquor in the jeep and was apprehended. On the very day it was caught my son thought it was prudent to ply the vehicle at all and since that day it has been lying in the garage. Because he feels, that once it was involved or utilised in something illegal or immoral, it is his bounden duty to stop even the plying of the vehicle by giving it out to some unscrupulous drivers. Since he has no time to drive it himself he has put it in the garage for the last two years. I have the courage to confess this before the House because it is a fact.

(At this stage the Speaker occupied the Chair)

        Now Sir, I will come to what the Minister has said. He was pleased to state here that the Government is seized of the problem and we welcome it. This is the implication and Government knows fully well that my contention in this regard is correct. he has assured that effective measures would be taken to put a stop to the rampant increase of illicit distillation and illicit sale of liquor. So when he has assured us that the Government will always be up and doing, I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : Has the Hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the cut motion?

(Voices - Yes, yes)

        The Cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn. Now let is come to the cut motion No.3 which stands in the name of Shri Edward Kurbah. But of course this point  was already raised by Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh , the mover of the cut motion No.2. So will you move your cut motion?

Shri Edward Kurbah : Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.4,84,000 under Grant No.8 Major Head "239- State Excise" at page 40 of the budget be reduced to Rs.100 i.e., the amount of the whole Grant of Rs.4,84,000 do stand reduced at Rs.100.

Mr. Speaker : Cut motion moved.

Shri H. Hadem : On a point of order Mr. Speaker Sir, here this particular cut motion according to the notice given is a token cut and there is specifically mentioned about the raids conducted. It must be a specific grievance. But here according to the notice given the contention of the hon. mover is about the different raids. As such it is not a specific one. As a matter of fact, he should have pointed out that he want to ventilate that grievance in dealing with the Excise Department but he did not specifically point out which branch of that department or particular Government servants has conducted such raids or on which date such raids has been conducted in Sohiong. I therefore, submit Sir, that this cut motion is very irregular.

Mr. Speaker : It appears that the hon. Member wants to raise one specific issue and that it about the different raid. It is upto the hon. Member whether he will raise his grievances or not. I am yet to hear from him otherwise I cannot give my ruling merely of such order that it should be too specifically clear in which nobody would be in a position to make it as clear as that. Anyway, about the raid in Sohiong Constituency, it is specifically clear. But if it is not a grievance, then of course, it is out of the order.

Shri Edward Kurbah : Than you very much Mr. Speaker Sir, there is prevention from the other side as one hon. member has raised a point of order.

Mr. Speaker : You come straight to the point.

Shri E. Kurbah : Mr. Speaker Sir, in bringing this cut motion to this august House, I would like to discuss on those points which I have specified in my cut motion, and that is about the  the different raids conducted by the staff of the Excise Department for checking of illicit distillation in the Sohiong Constituency.

Mr. Speaker : It is not specific. I have modified your intention that you want to bring forth your grievance against different raids.

Shri E. Kurbah : Mr. Speaker Sir, I know that the intention of the Central Government as well as the State Government is to bring a complete check on the sale of illicit  liquor and illicit distillation in the State. I know also right from the time since the Emergency was imposed upon the whole country, and we know also after the announcement f the Prime Minister of the 12 measures on prohibition etc.

Mr. Speaker : What are the specific grievances that you want to raise? We know as well as the whole House knows about that.

Shri E. Kurbah : I am coming to that. Mr. Speaker Sir, I know also that the Government in the Excise Department are trying their level best to completely implement what has been  proclaimed. Mr. Speaker Sir, I will come to the specific grievances which have been made by this Department in my Constituency of which every one of us in this House, knows that Sohiong is a very famous place in making illicit liquor. That is why as a man hailing from that Constituency as a man living on the said where the road is passing through, I have noted down and learned many things about the different raids conducted by the Excise Department in that area. Speaker Sir, right from the time of the Emergency, I feel that the staff of this particular department have made so many raids for checking and restricting the illicit distillation which prevails in the Constituency of Sohiong.

Mr. Speaker : Then in that case who have made those grievances? (laughter)

Shri E. Kurbah : The people Mr. Speaker Sir, of course people living in that area have appreciated the performance of this Department. But still then there are loopholes here and there. I do not blame the Department. I will point out certain difficulties and mistakes which have been done by the staff of the Excise Department. I have learned that within 1975 they have made such raids at Marbisu village and I know also that 4 or 5 times the have gone to that area. Sometimes. I have thought that there is a suspicion in my mind that some persons might have informed the Excise Department to go to this area and they are most likely in opposition or in favour of this or that. For example, Mr. Speaker Sir, when the people asked the staff of the Excise Department  to raid any House in that area then  there is another person from the same area who is more popular to the staff than to the others. This person then  prevents the making of raids in that area or when the Excise staff went there and searched the house, they found of course, I do not know it is up to the Department to know as far as I learn, that the house was full of illicit distillation tools and they knew that the House belongs to that persons and so they did not so anything. The staff then just slipped away carrying with them the tools to Shillong.

Shri H.E. Pohshna : Empty tools?

Shri E. Kurbah : Yes empty tools. Not only that case. I have also learnt about many things in that area. There are so many people engaged in illicit distillation and that they are now increasing in number from day to day. I wonder what action has been taken against those persons who are found making distilled liquor.

        Mr. Speaker Sir, now I come to another point on the same subject. I would like to know how far illicit distillation ahs been checked till now because they are still making illicit liquor up till now. Do you know how they are making it not in their houses in which they are staying but they are making right in the jungle where it is difficult for the staff to go and if they attempt they might fall down because of the steepness of the hills or because the out still may be located near the  river. However the staff should be sent only to raid those areas which are popular but also those areas where there are rivers, jungles and steep hills. Of course, they might not be able to do that all of a sudden; they might send an intelligent person to go there and examine to find out if  there are out stills or smokes here and there so that they may be sure that illicit distillation is going on.

        However I am glad Mr. Speaker Sir, that the Government is not only checking and raiding the illicit distillers but that the Government is also checking the sale of illicit liquor by the persons who are carrying and peddling these on vehicles and even, as the hon. Member from Pariong has stated on horse backs. I am very glad that one day while coming from Mawngap to Shillong in a taxi all of a sudden one vehicle passed us without signaling and when we came to the Umshyrpi Bridge that vehicle stopped right in the middle of the bridge and so the taxi on which we were travelling had to stop. The persons of the other vehicle came and searched the taxi and because they did not find anything they went away. Later I came to know that the vehicle was from the Excise Department.

Mr. Speaker : Mr. Kurbah, I thought that you would bring forward your specific grievances but instead you have taken the whole House to Marbisu, Sohiong and Umshyrpi and then to the jungles and down the river bed (laughter). What I man is, there are so many issues which are not within the scope of the cut option and I can only direct the Government to take note of what the hon. Member has stated. With the provision of the rules, the cut motion is our of order. So, let me put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.4,48,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for the administration of the head "239- State excise" be passed.

(The motion was carried and demand passed)

        Minister in charge Finance to move Grant No.9

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh Minister Stamps and Registration : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.5,24,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "240-Sales Tax and 245- I-Other Taxes and Duties on Commodities and Services "

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. The question Grant No.9 be passed

(The motion was adopted and demand passed)

        The Minister in charge of Transport now  to move Grant No.10

Shri D.D. Pugh, Minster Transport : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.9,68,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "241- Taxes on Vehicles"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. But I have received one cut motion which stands in the name of Mr. Stanlington David Khongwir. Mr. Khongwir to move.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.9,68,000 under Grant No.10 Major Head "241- Taxes on Vehicles" at page 47 of the Budget be reduced to Re.1, i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs.9,68,000 do stand reduced to Re.1.

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now you can initiate discussion.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Mr. Speaker Sir, we have had during the last 2/3 years a lot of discussion about the District Councils in their relation to the State Government, especially in so far as the District Councils of Khasi Hills is concerned. Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not want to believe that it becomes necessary for us to speak on matter concerning the District Council of Khasi Hills vis-a-vis the relation of the District Council of Khasi Hills with the State Government because of the fact that the Executive Committee of the District Council in Khasi Hills happens to be run by another Party which is not the Party which is running the State Government. Mr. Speaker, Sir, yesterday, if I am not mistaken, the Leader of the Opposition had been trying to draw an analogy between the Central Government and the State Government and the State Government of Meghalaya with the affairs of the District Council. If am not mistaken, the purport of the statement made by the Leader of the opposition was in effect to judge the treatment of the Central Government because the Central Government happens to be run by the Congress Party and here in Meghalaya it is run by a different party and also Mr. Speaker, Sir, the relationship between the District Council in Khasi Hills and the State Government because of the fact that both of them are being run by different Parties. As I have said, earlier, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not want to believe that these things which we have brought about in this House were necessary just because of this I am confident, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that despite the fact that the State Government of Meghalaya is being run by a different Party, I believe that the State Government is giving equal and fair treatment to all the District Councils here in the State. In so far as this grant is concerned, the other day we have had discussion on the Supplementary Demands and I have also spoken on this and the Minister-in-charge had also partially replied to this question. But now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the other day when the Minister replied, he has just imply said that in view of the arguments brought forth in the House on that particular day when we spoke on the Cut Motion and the Supplementary Demands, the Government would consider. But Mr. Speaker, Sir, in regard to the shares, between the State Government and the District Council if I am not mistaken, a memorandum to the Hon'ble Chief Minister had been submitted by the Chief Executive Members of the District Councils as far back as July, 1975. And one of the points that been raised in this Memorandum was to raise the  to raise the share between the District Council and the State Government. If I am not mistaken , the District Councils had asked for a rise from 40 per cent or 25 per cent to 80 per cent. Well Mr. Speaker, Sir, I cannot say that I fully agree with this demand from the side of the District Councils. But, my only point is for the State Government to reconsider this allocation or appointment of the Shares between the State Government and the District Councils. It was as far back as 1955 when this appointment was made at that time, by the Government of Assam and the District Councils. In so far as the Khasi Hills District Council is concerned, the share that is accruable to the District Council is to the extent of 25 per cent only. And, so is also the case of Jaintia Hills District Council. So Mr. Speaker, Sir, at that time when this appointment was made, the basis was on the number of registered vehicles that are being garaged in the Municipal area of Shillong. But, Sir, very recently, the Supreme Court had given its ruling in so far as the areas comprising the Municipal areas of Shillong are concerned. And, in view of this, I would suggest to the Government to reconsider this question of appointment of shares on the the taxes on vehicles and if the Government cannot go to the extent of 80 per cent for the District Council and 20 per cent for the State, I would suggest at least to try to increase the percentage from the ratio given to the District Councils, may be to the extent of 60 or 70 per cent because as we all know, Mr. Speaker, Sir, sources of revenue of all the District Councils are very limited and meagre and we know also that the District Council have got their responsibilities as autonomous bodies to execute special developmental plans and programmes and other works for the benefit and welfare of the people. So, Mr. Speaker Sir, if the Government would consider raising the shares of the District Councils  in matter pertaining to taxes on vehicles, it would help  the District Councils very much to augment their fund so that  the District Councils can also be expected to execute and implement their works in a better manner. Sir, in dealing with matters of  the District Councils and the State and with due regard to the Minister in charge or the Government to at least try not to find fault from the side of the  Government with  the District Councils and I would humbly request or rather suggest to the Government especially to the Minister in charge of  the District Councils Affairs to atleast show a paternal attitude to the  the District Councils. So with these few words, Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg to move this cut motion.

Shri H.S. Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to support the Cut Motion moved by the hon. Member from Mawlai. In this respect, Sir, I just want to add one more point, and this is while the Government is collecting all those revenues from these sources, the Government should maintain the records of collection and at the same time, Sir, they should produce the record whenever necessary because of the  fact that there is a misunderstanding among the  the District Councils and the State Government due to the fact that there was no record to show that such revenues have been collected from this head or that head, from taxes on vehicles or from the minerals or from any thing else. Right from the Assam Government's time the Assam Government never produced any record in this respect. So whenever a question of share is raised, they will say this is your share. Sometimes the State Government will give 40 per cent to the District Councils, sometimes while sharing taxes on vehicles the State Government will give 25 per cent to the District Councils and 75 percent will be kept for State Government i.e., Assam Government. But the present Government is also following the same practice. They are telling that Shillong is not under  the District Councils and most of the vehicles are garaged under Shillong Municipality. So 60 percent of the share will go to the State Government. Sir, I would like to avoid the question of ill feelings between  the District Councils and the State Government although we  heard complaints even during this session that the Garo Hills District Council does not co-operate with the State Government. That in the matter of water supply the Garo Hills  District Council never co-operate with the P.H.E. Department.

Mr. Speaker : We are not dealing with the P.H.E. here.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : It is not true but I am only making some reference to highlight my contention, i.e., the relationship between  the District Councils and the State Government. What I mean to say is that there should be a clear record with facts and figures in the matter of collection of revenue.

Mr. Speaker : Will the Minister in charge reply?

Shri D.D. Pugh : Mr. Speaker Sir, the cut motion now under the consideration is indeed very clear and very specific and the intention and the objectives of bringing  forward this cut motion is to raise a discussion on the Government policy regarding appointment of shares between the State Government and  the District Council, and in this context it means the appointment of shares accruing taxes on vehicles. Therefore, I am half tempted to say that any other points raised would be irrelevant. Now while initiating discussion on the cut motion the hon. Mover has had the occasion to raise  the question of relationships that exists between the State Government and  the District Council. On this question I would assure the hon. Mover through you, Mr. Speaker Sir, that he is absolutely correct in believing that no unfair treatment has been meted out and that this Government has anything or any intention whatsoever of meting out  unfair treatment to any of  the District Council just on the ground that it is headed and run by different political party different from the party which is in the power in the State. The question also of finding fault just does not arise. I would like to assure that the hon. Mover of the cut motion that in all our dealing with  the District Council we have not once been guided by any intention to find fault. At the same time, I would, through you, Mr. Speaker Sir, like to appeal  to the hon. Mover and like minded people leaders to realise that if on this issue or that issue there appears to be some delay, that delay is caused only because of the fact that the procedure that had been followed there was time consuming and therefore, once again I repeat and emphasise Mr. Speaker Sir, that question  of fault finding on our part just does not arise. Regarding  the ratio in which the taxes on motor vehicles are being shared as of today as you know, Mr. Speaker Sir, it is as follows-Khasi Hills and Jaintia Hills  District Councils are paid in the ratio of 75:25 after deducting the cost of collection and proportionate service stamps. Now on this point I would like to remind myself an also the entire House that this particular revenue i.e., taxes on motor vehicles was shared in the same ration from 1970 to 1972 and also as you may recall Mr. Speaker Sir, from 1970 to 1972 it was the party which is today in the helm of affairs of the State was in power in  the District Council also. Therefore I am mentioning this to help the hon. Mover to be convicted that there has been no question of fault finding or meeting out unfair and step motherly treatment. The hon. Mover also advocated for increasing the share of the District Council. You may recall Mr. Speaker Sir, that on this point I had the occasion  to state in this very session of the Assembly that the matter would be given the consideration that it deserves. Today I would like to add further still that it is not that it will be given consideration in the future, but that the process has actually started. The process of considering an increase in the share to be given to  the District Council has already been started. The hon. Member from Pariong in supporting the cut motion has raised the question of taking  the District Council into confidence in the matter of calculating the shares, actually the receipts. He has requested that the accounts be made available to the District Council so that they know exactly how their shares have been worked out. On this point also Mr. Speaker Sir, you may recall that just a few days ago I had the occasion to observe that we have no objection to making the figures and the accounts available to  the District Council I repeat the assurance that was given on the previous occasions. So with this assurance given and the clarification made, Mr. Speaker Sir, I would request the hon. Member who has moved the cut motion to kindly withdraw his cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : May I get the information from the Minister? Is it proper for the Government to leak out all the accounts to the autonomous bodies? I thought the proper procedure is that any concerned autonomous authorities will check up from the Department concerned of the A.G's Office before these accounts are ready to be handed over to the District Councils because it may tantamount to a breach of privilege of the Public Accounts Committee.

Shri D.D. Pugh : When I said we have no objection to making the account available it means that we will do it in such a manner that it will neither be sub-judiced nor a contempt on the Committee appointed.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : In view of the assurances given by the Minister in charge of Transport, I withdraw this cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : Has the hon. Member of the House to withdraw the cut motion?

(Voices - Yes, yes........)

        The cut motion with leave of the House stands withdrawn. Now let me put the main question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.9,68,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "241- Taxes on Vehicles"

(The motion was carried and the demand passed)

        Now the Minister in charge of Power to move Grant No.11

Shri S.D. Nichols Roy, Minister in charge of Power : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.1,03,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "245-Other Taxes and Duties on Commodities and Services- II-Inspectorate of Electricity"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. the question is that an amount of Rs.1,03,000, be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "245-Other Taxes and Duties on Commodities and Services-II-Inspectorate of Electricity"

(The motion was adopted and demand passed)

        The Minister in charge of Finance to move Grant No.12.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh, Minister of Finance : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.51,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "247- Other Fiscal Services- Promotion of Small Saving"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. the question is that an amount of Rs.51,000, be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "247-Other Fiscal Services-Promotion of Small Saving"

(The motion was adopted and demand passed)

    The Chief Minister  to move Grant No.13

Shri W.A. Sangma, Chief Minister : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.50,35,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "252-Secretariat General Services-I-Civil Departments"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. There is one cut motion which stands in the name of Mr. D.N. Joshi, but since this particular issue that the hon. Member wants to raise has been discussed in the House according to rules the cut motion is disallowed. So may I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.50,35,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "252-Secretariat General Services-I-Civil Departments "

(The motion was carried and demand passed)

        Minister in Charge of P.W.D. to move Grant No.14.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah, Minister in charge of P.W.D : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.6,78,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "252-Secretariat General Services-II-Public Works  Departments"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. There is one cut motion which stands in the name of Mr. D.N. Joshi, but since this particular issue that the hon. Member wants to raise has been discussed in the House according to rules the cut motion is disallowed. So may I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.6,78,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "252-Secretariat General Services-II-Public Works Departments"

(The motion was carried and demand passed)

        The Chief Minister  to move Grant No.15

Shri W.A. Sangma, Chief Minister : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.22,17,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "253-District Administration"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved, but I have received two cut motions which stand in the name of Mr. Winstone Syiemiong and Mr. Rowel Lyngdoh. But both the Members are absent. So the cut motion are deemed to have been withdrawn. Now I out the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.22,17,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "253-District Administration"

(The motion was carried and demand passed)

        The Minister in charge of Finance to move Grant No.16

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh , Minister Finance :Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.11,91,500 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "254-Treasury and Accounts Administration"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. But I have received two cut motions. One stands in the name of Mr. Francis K. Mawlot. But the hon. Member is absent. So the cut motion is deemed to have been withdrawn. The second motion stands in the name of Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not move.

Mr. Speaker : So the cut motion automatically stands withdrawn. Now I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.11,91,500 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "254-Treasury and Accounts Administration"

(The motion was carried and demand passed)

        The Chief Minister to move Grant No.17

Shri W.A. Sangma, Chief Minister : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.2,84,90,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "255- Police and 260-Fire Protection and Control"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved, but I have received 5 cut motions to this grant. The first motion stands in the name of Mr. S.D. Khongwir.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Mr. Speaker Sir, I will not move.

Mr. Speaker : So the cut motion automatically stands withdrawn. The second cut motion stands in the name of Mr. D.N. Joshi.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg to move the total provision of Rs.2,84,99,000 under Grant No.17, Major Head "255-Police and 260-Fire Protection and Control", at page 87 of the Budget be reduced by Rs.100, i.e. the amount of the whole grant of Rs.2,84,99,000 do stand reduced by Rs.100.

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now you can initiate discussion.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Mr. Speaker Sir, let me remind the House through you that I have had the occasion on the floor of this House to take part in this particular issue. Sir, here in our State the Police personnel....

Mr. Speaker : You mean all the Police personnel or only the Fire Fighting Squad which forms part of the Security Department.

Shri D.N. Joshi :  But police personnel are not provided with adequate facilities for the accommodation. Their houses were lost during the time of the erstwhile Government of Assam and they are still in existence.

Mr. Speaker : I think it is concerned only with Fire Protection and control.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Sir, it is both for the Police and Fire Protection and Control.

Mr. Speaker : Mr. Joshi I think you please leave out that particular portion of accommodation because it has been discussed in the Governor's Address and the same question cannot be raised in the House again.

Shri D.N. Joshi : But Sir, I do not remember to have heard any discussion on this particular subject during the Governor's Address.

Mr. Speaker : Yes, it has been entirely discussed during the debate on the Governor's Address.

Shri Humphrey Hadem : Sir, this is a policy cut and not a token cut. If we take this facility then it is no more a token cut.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Mr. Speaker Sir, I remember that you have admitted this.

Mr. Speaker : I think I must inform that House that the cut motion is not admitted by the Speaker. It is the office which helps the hon. Member to put the question in a proper manner and whatever I will decide, I will decide inside this House. It is only the office which is trying to help the  hon. Members to bring the cut motion before the House. According to the circumstances of this case I will now disallow this cut motion. Now I will call upon Mr. Kurbah to raise his cut motion.

Shri Edward Kurbah : Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.2,84,90,000 under Grant No.17, Major Head " 255-Police and 260-Fire Protection and Control" at page 87 of the Budget be reduced by Rs.100 i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs.2,84,90,00 do stand reduced by Rs.100.

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. But here you want to discuss a token cut. You are only to draw the attention of the Government to only one specific grievance. But since you have not pointed out  specifically, I have to rule it out of order. Cut motion No.4 which stands in the name of Shri F.K. Mawlot is deemed to have been withdrawn as the hon. Member is absent. So also cut motion No.5 which stands in the name of Shri S.D. Khongwir who is at the moment absent is deemed to have been withdrawn. Now put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.2,84,90,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "255-Police and 260-Fire Protection and Control"

(The motion was carried and demand passed)

        Now Chief Minister to move Grant No.18

Shri W.A. Sangma, Chief Minister : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.19,31,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "256-Jails"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. But I have received many cut motions. The first cut motion stands in the name of Shri W. Syiemiong.

Shri W. Syiemiong : Mr. Speaker Sir, I am not moving my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : Since the Member is not willing to move the cut motion it seems to have been withdrawn. Now the next cut motion stands in the name of Shri D.N. Joshi.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.19,31,000 under Grant No.18. Major Head " 256-Jails" at page 110 of the Budget be reduced by Rs.100, i.e. the amount of the whole grant of Rs.19,31,000 do stand reduced by Rs.100.

Shri H. Hadem : Sir, instead of one grievance, he has brought forward tow grievances and the subject is food and accommodation.

Mr. Speaker : We should not be too specific. We cannot live without food and we also cannot live without accommodation. It concerns only two vital grievances accommodation and food to be  provided to the present under the prescribed standard and since this issue has not been raised in the proper manner, I will allot the hon. Mover Shri D.N. Joshi to move this cut motion.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Thank you very much Sir. If I am not mistaken I had raised this issue some three years ago, regarding the accommodation in the Shillong jail. Once I had the occasion to go there and found that the capacity of the accommodation in the Shillong Jail was 150 whereas at that moment I found that the number of prisoners both convicts and under trial was more than 360. Well Sir, in an age when we are supposed to be very very civilised and very much  conscious of our individual health. I do now know why 360 souls or more were dumped in a place which can only accommodate 150 people. Since then now three years have already passed but I am constrained to say, Sir, that no substantial addition or extension in the matter of accommodation has been made in the jails to raise the capacity of the jail to accommodate more prisoners. Sir, in the jail in our State, there are not only convicts. Naturally there will be under trials prisoners and some times political prisoners. There were occasions when political prisoners were also taken in the same jail. But the facilities that are provided there for the under trial and even for the political prisoner are not so much different from those provided for the convicts. The treatment in so far as the accommodation is concerned meted out to different categories of prisoners is the same. And so the buildings which were constructed during the period of the Britishers are still there. The roofs are leaking and no renovation work worth the name has been made or taken up so far. So, I would urge upon the Government that extension of the Shillong Jail should be taken up right earnest so that the different categories of prisoners who are there are not dumped any longer under the same roof. Besides the prisoners who are under trial or political prisoners or convicts, there is another category of prisoners who are generally kept in the jail compound.

Mr. Speaker : Yes, that we understand.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Before they are sent to other parts of the country, because there is no lunatic asylum in our State which is  a dire need. They are given treatment in the jails, and the accommodation provided for these ailing persons is not suitable for proper treatment. So proper care and proper imagination should be applied in designing and planning for extension of the jails so that these 4 categories of people who are accommodated here are properly accommodated with suitable place without any leaking roofs. The food, Sir, which is supplied in the jail, I feel is far below the standard in this age in which we are living.

Mr. Speaker : Do you compare with what standard.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Well Sir, the prisoners all of them are convicts and under trials or for that matter, all political prisoners or patients are after all human beings. Only because they had committed certain wrong they do not cease to be human being. Therefore, food supplied  to them must be of a proper standard and should not below the standard of the food supplied to the patients in other hospitals and other Government Canteens. It must be of the same standard. So I urge upon the Government to look in to this matter also very deeply and raise the standard of food.

Mr. Speaker : Then everybody would like to go and visit the jail. (laughter)

Shri D.N. Joshi : No Sir, they do not want to become convict because a convict leaves a scar in his life therefore nobody wants to become a convict. So with these few words, I urge upon the Government  to see that food supplied to the prisoners, under trials, political prisoners and patients is up to the mark.

Shri D.D. Lapang : I rise to oppose the cut motion moved by the hon. Member. Regarding food given to the persons confined in jails. I believe that the Government have done according to the jail Manual. The standard and the items and the type of food  to be given to the people confined in jail have been followed by the Government. I do not know as to whether the hon. Mover who brought this cut motion suggests that the jail manual should be amended. But according to my knowledge, Mr. Speaker Sir, this jail Manual is being scrutinised properly by the medical specialist and psychologists to see that the persons confined in jail will not be effected even though the food will be given according to the prescription of the Jail Manual, and it is a fact that it may be below the standard of the people living outside the jail as a token of punishment that the type of food was given. had there been lack of supervision on the serving of food, that is a different question. But it is not the policy of the Government to give less food than what has been prescribed in the Jail Manual. So far as building is concerned it is a fact that  there is a lot of improvement in the sealing of leakage. I understand that a lot of repairing works and extension have been done. Even here, is a short span of time of controlling and handling over of the jails to the Government of Meghalaya, the Government have been trying their level best. Congestion is there, but here it is gratifying to note that the Government is taking keen interest to see that the convict or the prisoners confined in the jail do not suffer for want of accommodation. I understand that land her been purchased at Jowai by the Government and prisoners from Shillong within a short period of time, will be removed to Jowai. Also in Tura, I understand that Government has already purchased 200 bighas of land at the cost of Rs.10,000. This is a very clear indication that the Government is keen to see that  congestion is being removed. I also understand that the mentally deranged persons are being removed to Tripura Castle.

Mr. Speaker : Where?

Shri D.D. Lapang : It has come to my knowledge that they are being taken to the Tripura Castle some where in Shillong. So, Mr. Speaker Sir, besides that, it has also been mentioned in the speech made in this House that there has been a correctional centre at Sohiong  also so that these boys who have committed crimes have to be corrected there and will be removed to Sohiong. I understand that this building has been completed by the P.W.D. but handing over by the P.W.D has not been done. So, I suggest that the P.W.D will please hand over this building to the Medical Department so that this congestion can be removed so that there will be no complaint. Mr. Speaker Sir, it has come to my knowledge also that the Government is going further to see that the prisoners are having a comfortable place to stay in spite of the crimes committed by them to the extent of acquiring some areas in Nongstoin and Simsangiri and I would suggest to the Government that new sites also may be allotted to these people so that less congestion will be there. With these few words, I stand to oppose the cut motion.

Shri H. Enowell Pohshna : Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to support the cut motion, but if the facts stated by the hon. Mover who has just stated here are correct, then I would request the hon. Mover of the motion to withdraw (Loud laughter)

Mr. Speaker : There is nobody to support.

Shri D.N. Joshi : I find that there is no one to support because......

Shri Winstone Syiemiong : I support the cut motion Mr. Speaker Sir.

Mr. Speaker : It is only one and a half minutes. I think it will be better if the Chief Minister will reply tomorrow.

        So the House stands adjourned till 9.30 AM tomorrow the 25th March, 1975.

R.T. RYMBAI
Dated Shillong Secretary,
The 24th March, 1976 Meghalaya Legislative Assembly.

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