PROCEEDINGS OF THE BUDGET SESSION OF THE MEGHALAYA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY ASSEMBLED AT 9.30 A.M. ON FRIDAY , THE 26TH MARCH, 1976 IN THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER, SHILLONG.

*****

Present : Hon. Speaker in the Chair, 8 Ministers, 3 Ministers of State and 41 Members,

Mr. Speaker : Let us begin the business of the day by taking up starred questions.


STARRED QUESTIONS

(To which oral replies were given )

Raw materials for Meghalaya Plywood Ltd.

Shri Jormanik Syiem asked :

* 4 Will the Minister in charge of forest  be pleased to state-

(a) Whether it is a fact that the Meghalaya Plywood Ltd., was to be given raw materials to the tune of over three lakhs cubic feet during 1975-76?

(b) If some how mush of the above quantity has been made available to the said industry to this date?

(c) The reasons for not supplying sufficient quantity of wood materials to the Meghalaya Plywood Ltd?

(d) Whether it is a fact that the officer or officers of the Forest Department  are causing delay in allotment of forests coupes earmarked for the said industry?

Shri Grohonsing Marak, Minister, Forest replied :

4. (a)- No.

(b) & (c) - about 2000 trees capable of yielding 2,800 cu.m (1 lakhs cft) approximately have been made available to M/S/ Meghalaya Plywood Ltd. from the 1st April , 1975 to this date , but the Company have so far operated only about one third of the above quantity. it is reported that this less extraction is due to the operational deficiency of Company.

(d) No it is not a fact.

Mr. Speaker : Let us pass on top Unstarred Question No.68


UNSTARRED QUESTIONS

(Replies to which were placed on the table)

Road Rollers in the State.

Shri Martin Narayan Majaw asked :

68. Will the Minister in charge of P.W.D. be pleased to state:

(a) The total number of road rollers in the State maintained by the P.W.D?

(b) The Division wise distribution of such road rollers?

Shri Ripple Kyndiah, Minister in charge of P.W.D. replied : 

68 (a)- The total number of road rollers in the State maintained by the P.W.D. are 106 numbers.

(b)- The Division wise distribution are as follows

1.

 Tura North Division

23 Nos.

2.

Borangapara Division

1 Nos.

3.

Tura East Division

3 Nos.

4.

Tura South Division

6 Nos.

5.

 National Highway Division

13 Nos.

6.

Shillong Central Division

8 Nos.

7.

Shillong South Division

7 Nos.

8. 

Shillong North Division

3 Nos.

9.

 Nongstoin Division

5 Nos.

10.

Mawsynram

4 Nos.

11.

 Jowai South Division

6 Nos.

12.

 Shillong West

8 Nos.

13. 

Jowai North

4 Nos.

14.

 Mechanical Division

15 Nos.

Total

106 Nos.

Shri H. Hadem : Whether all these machineries of the road rollers are running condition?

Shri Ripple Kyndiah, Minister in charge of P.W.D.: Some are in running condition and some are under repair.

Shri H. Hadem : Whether those roads rollers as as item No.11 and 13 are concerned are in good condition?

Shri Ripple Kyndiah, Minister in charge of P.W.D.: I require notice.

Shri S.P Swer: Mr. Speaker Sir, then are we to understand  that the road rollers under the mechanical Division of P.W.D. are unserviceable.?

Shri Ripple Kyndiah, Minister in charge of P.W.D.:  No, Mr. Speaker Sir.

Mr. Speaker : Unstarred question  No.69

Plying of State Transport buses between Tura and Mahendraganj.

Shri Samsul Haque :

69. Will the Minister in charge of Transport be pleased to state

(a) Whether there is any proposal to ply Meghalaya State Transport buses between Tura and Mahendraganj?

(b) If so, when will the bus service be introduced?

Shri D.D. Pugh, Minister Transport:

69. (a) Yes.

(b) The exact date will be decided upon receipt of additional buses required for this and other proposed routes.

Shri Maham Singh : Whether the Government has placed order for the vehicles?

Shri D.D. Pugh, Minister Transport : Yes. Sir.

Shri Maham Singh : When orders were placed?

Shri D.D. Pugh, Minister Transport: I require notice.

Mr. Speaker : Unstarred Question No.70.

Terraced cultivable lands at Gaobari.

Shri Brojendro Sangma asked :

70. Will the Minister in Charge of Soil Conservation  be pleased to state :

(a) How many acres of cultivable lands have already been terraced at Gaobari Village in Garo Hills?

(b) The total amount incurred so far for said work?

(c) Whether there is any departmental follow-up scheme at Gaobari?

(d) If so, the length of period upto which the followed up scheme will be extended?

(e) If not, the reason thereof ?

Shri Edwingson Bareh, Minister Soil Conservation replied :

70 (a) 47 Hectares (approximately 116 acres) have been terraced at Gaobari during 1973-74.

(b) An amount of Rs.69,418.50 p was incurred in the same work.

(c) Immediately after the land development work seeds, manures and fertilizers were provided.

(d) Only for the first year.

(e) Since this was taken up under the Pilot Project and Demonstration Scheme during 1973-74 , there is no provision for continuing follow up programme further.

Shri Brojendra Sangma : Has it been measured properly?

Shri Edwingson Bareh, Minister Soil Conservation : Certainly.

Shri Brojendro Sangma: How much was spent per acre?

Mr. Speaker : There is always a reckoned.

Jailors at Special Jail, Mawlai.

Prof Martin  Narayan Majaw asked :

71. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state whether the Government is aware of the fact that there are 3 (three) Assistant Jailors and a Superintendent  to look after 134 prisoners at the Special Jail, Mawlai?

Shri Williamson Sangma, Chief Minister replied :

71- At present there are two Assistant Jailors and one Jailor who has been allowed to hold full charge of the post of Superintendent in addition to his own duties.

Timber Treatment Plant 

Shri Samarendra Sangma asked :

72. Will the Minister in charge of Forests be pleased to state :

(a) The progress made so far in respect of timber treatment plant at Darugiri Garo Hills?

(b) When will the actual operation of the timber treatment plant at Darugiri be started?

(c) The total amount so far incurred for the various installations at the said timber treatment plant?

Shri Grohonsing Marak, Minister, Forest replied :

72 (a) Already completed.

(b) The actual operations of the plant started on 1st December 1975.

(c) Rs. 2,93,541.02


VOTING ON DEMAND FOR GRANTS

Mr. Speaker : So let us pass on to the next item the cut motion which stands in the name of Shri H.S. Lyngdoh. The Chief Minister had requested yesterday the hon. Member to withdraw his cut motion. Now I would like to know from him.

Shri H.S. Hadem : After the Chief Minister  had replied some  hon. Members sought some clarification.

Mr. Speaker : But if the hon. Members seek some clarifications which are not connected with the main front, how can I allow them .

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, my clarifications was that whether those 2,308 Home Guards will continue to remain in the Force after training or again a new batch will be trained.

Shri W.A. Sangma, Chief Minister : Well, Mr Speaker Sir, out of those 2,308 Home Guards, 1,775 have been trained.

Mr. Speaker : No, the question is whether they will remain in the Force or a new batch will be trained again?

Shri W.A. Sangma , Chief Minister : They will be in a reserve Force. How can we take a new batch, we cannot exceed 2,308.

Shri H.S. Lyngdoh : I withdraw my cut motion.

 Mr. Speaker : Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the cut motion ? (voices : Yes, yes)

The cut motion is with the leave of the House withdrawn . The question is that an amount of Rs.13,40,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray the charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March,1977, for the Administration Services-I-Civil Defence and Home Guards "

(The Motion was carried and the demand passed)

Grant No.22.

Shri D.D. Pugh, Minister  Transport : Sir on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move Grant No.22.

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion , I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.3,15,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray the charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March,1977, for the administration of the head " 265-Other Administrative Services-II-Motor Garages, etc "

(The Motion was carried and the demand passed)

 Grant No.23

Shri Sanford K. Marak : Sir on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move Grant No.23.

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion , I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.72,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray the charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March,1977, for the administration of the head " 265-Other Administrative Services-III-Gazetteers and Statistical Memoirs"

(The Motion was carried and the demand passed)

Grant No.24

Shri W.A. Sangma, Chief Minister : Sir on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move Grant No.24

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion , I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.7,15,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray the charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March,1977, for the administration of the head " 265- Other Administrative Services-IV-Census, Vital Statistic Guest House.

(The Motion was carried and the demand passed)

Grant No.25

Shri W.A. Sangma, Chief Minister : Sir on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move Grant No.25

Mr. Speaker :Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion , I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.4,24,200 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray the charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March,1977, for the administration of the head " 265-Other Administrative Services-V-Miscellaneous Administrative Services"

(The Motion was carried and the demand passed)

Grant No.26

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh, Minister Finance : Sir on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move Grant No.26

Mr. Speaker :I have received on cut motion which stands in the name of Shri Fuller Lyngdoh. Since the member is absent the cut motion is  deemed to have been withdrawn, I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.14,87,000  be granted to the Minister in charge to defray the charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March,1977, for the administration of the head " 266-Pension and Other Retirement Benefits"

(The Motion was carried and the demand passed)

Grant No.27.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh, Minister Finance : Sir on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move Grant No.27

Mr. Speaker :Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.8,43,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray the charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March,1977, for the administration of the head " 267-Aid Materials and Equipments"

(The Motion was carried and the demand passed)

Grant No.28

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh, Minister Finance : Sir on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move Grant No.28

Mr. Speaker :Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.3,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray the charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March,1977, for the administration of the head " 268-Miscellaneous, General Services Pre Partition payments. State Lotteries, Pensions for Distinguished Services"

(The Motion was carried and the demand passed)

Grant No.29

Shri W.A. Sangma : Sir on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move that an amount of Rs.5,20,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray the charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March,1977, for the administration of the head " 276-Secretariat Social and Community Services-I-Civil Departments"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion , I put the question . The question is that  I beg to move that an amount of Rs.5,20,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray the charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March,1977, for the administration of the head " 276-Secretariat Social and Community Services-I- Civil Departments"

(The Motion was adopted and the demand passed)

Grant No.30

Shri S.K. Marak, Minister, P.H.E. : Sir on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move that an amount of Rs.40,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray the charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March,1977, for the administration of the head " 276-Secretariat Social and Community Services-II- Public Health Engineering Secretariat"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion , I put the question . The question is that  I beg to move that an amount of Rs40,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray the charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March,1977, for the administration of the head " 276-Secretariat Social and Community Services- II- Public health and Engineering Secretariat"

(The Motion was adopted and the demand passed)

Grant No.31

Shri S.K. Marak, Minister, P.H.E.: Sir on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move that an amount of Rs5,18,99,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray the charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March,1977, for the administration of the head " 277-Education"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. But there are as many as 7 cut motions. Shri Rowell Lyngdoh to move first.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.5,18,99,000 under Grant No.31, Major head "277-Education" at page 161 of the Budget be reduce to Re.1. i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs.5,18,99,000 do stand reduced by Re.1

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now you can initiate the discussion.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, in moving this cut motion. I feel at the first instance reluctant and a little embarrassed that so many times in this House we have had the occasion to discuss this subject of education. But then since there is no change in the policy of the Government with regard to education, I feel that if at all there is any embarrassment, that should be on the part of the Government. Mr. Speaker Sir, when we talk on the policy of the Government, I of course appreciate that the Government has been trying to modify or change its policy by constituting the Education Commission in order to recommend or to frame rules for education in the State. On this score I appreciate that the Government have  done so and we are waiting for the reports or the recommendations of that Commission. but whatever it is we have found that for so long our Government have been following the rules and regulations of the then Government of Assam and under these rules different categories of educational institutions have been run by the Government. Mr. Speaker Sir, here I would like to touch only the secondary education leaving the rest to other members of this House. Firstly on secondary education we have found that there are many different policies being followed in respect of these categories by the Government under this secondary education there are  schools which are being run by the Government and these are called the Government schools where more attention is paid to them and the teachers have been given  better pay and given better amenities and also there is atleast direct supervision of the schools from the Government side. But of course the question of the standard of education remains to be discussed  and I will leave that out to be discussed by other Members because we have seen that  the standard has not so much improved as we would expect it to be. Then Sir, there are certain categories of schools which are known as deficit schools. Under this deficit system of schools, the scales of pay  that is, the Government scales of pay has been given to the teachers. On this point also, there is difficulty now on the part of the teachers of these deficit schools because the Government has not extended to them the benefit of the revised pay scale. If at all it has been extended it has not been paid to them. Then there are the poor schools which we call the aided schools which are being aided by the Government financially but are Private Schools. Mr. Speaker Sir, in this way, the standard of education might differ from one type of school to another type. Therefore the whole educational system in the State differs and the standard of education may also be affected because some categories of schools may have better standard than the others. So we feel that as the whole of India is aiming  at the socialistic system of administration, we would like that there should be uniformity of standard in education also. Therefore, Mr. Speaker Sir, on this I would suggest  that there should not be much difference in everything. The Government schools are equipped with everything right from the scale of pay of the teachers and allowances to the teachers and maintenance of the schools. This is of course like any Government Department, but then other categories of Schools are just like second or third class citizens of  the State. Sir, on the secondary education stage, the pupils are mostly of the age group of 6-14.

        Therefore, it is the  duty of the State to look into this matter as there has been constitutional provision also for giving free education of this age group. Therefore, Mr. Speaker Sir, I feel that in this particular matter there should not be any different treatment between one set pf category and another in the same one secondary schools. I would like to suggest that there should be uniformity for all categories of schools irrespective of whether it is Government School or Aided School. There should not be any partial treatment for all the category of school and the government should maintain these aided  schools by giving maintenance grants equal to the expenditure on the Government Schools. The Government should also see that the standard of education in all private as well as deficit schools should be improved and if possible  to see that the pay of the teachers in the these schools should be brought at par or equal to that of the pay of the teachers in the Government schools. it is always seen  that the scale have been fixed by the Government as per qualification. I would suggest that the same scale of pay should also be given to the teachers of those Private Government Aided Schools possessing some qualification.

        Then on the maintenance of school buildings and other requirements in these private schools we expect that there should not be much of difference between one school and another. We have seen Mr. Speaker Sir, that the Government is following a policy of giving grants in aid to those private aided schools as I said earlier, but these grants in aid depend upon the consideration of the authority concerned and it is up to that authority alone to decide whether they should be given grants or not. Sometimes there are schools which at least the attention of the authority and so they never get any  grants. Those schools which never maintain good relations or friendship with the school authority never got or received any building grants. So here also there is a different treatment and there is no uniformity at all. Therefore, I would request the Government to try to bring forward a model type of school building, and to see that the pattern of school building is the same for all secondary schools. It should also be seen that it at all grant is to be sanctioned by the Government, it should be of the same amount for all schools if a model type of building is drawn up by the Government and the estimates of expenditure should also be uniform for all. By doing so, I believe it will leave no scope  for partiality in giving grants to these schools and it will help the Government to know the actual requirements of these schools  having the same pattern of school buildings. Of course, Sir, all this depends upon  the financial position of the Government, but I would like to suggest that the same standard of education and uniformity of treatment in respect of grants in aid or in maintenance of these private schools, should be followed by the Government.

        Then with regard to teachers teaching in the secondary schools, they must be well trained and should posses certain requisites qualification in order to raise the standard of education in those schools. Because if they are not properly trained in the field and if they do not have teaching experience or do not posses good qualification, I know the standard of education also will be very poor. It has got a bad effect on the students also and the standard of education will naturally be poor. So I would suggest that the Government should by rules, lay down certain requisite qualification for those teachers and that they should be given opportunity to be trained up by the Government in the Training Institutions. Rules framed by the Government for the Government School teachers should be made applicable also to those Government Aided Schools. Therefore, the same rules  should also be provided and applied to those private schools so that there will be uniformity in the standard of education and efforts should be made for getting those teachers trained. Government should also see that those teachers are availing such training facilities. Because so far we have seen that there is shortage of seats in the training institutions. Government should make training compulsory for them and should encourage them to undergo such training.

        Now I come to another point Mr. Speaker Sir, and that is the management side. Sir we know there are Managing Committees to manage these schools and these Managing Committees are recognised by the Government. But it is a fact that there ser some who are owners of those schools and not the Managing Committees. When the Government fail to recognise the ownership there will be troubles and we have seen sometimes there arise troubles in those schools whose ownership is not known. Sometimes the schools split up due to the quarrels of the members of those School Managing Committees and hence the school fails because of lack of proper ownership and strong management. So there must be some ownership and I would request that Government should recognise the ownership because in case of Government schools, ownership belongs to some one besides the members of the Managing Committees. Government  schools, ownership belongs to the Government itself but in case of private schools ownership belongs to some one besides the members of the Managing Committees. Governments, therefore should find out who are the owners and recognise them. The Managing Committees should be made responsible to the owner and should see that there should not be any difference of opinion among the Members. Otherwise there will be a chaotic condition prevailing in these Private schools. It is found sometimes Government recognise the Managing Committees as owners which is very wrong , sometimes they treat some other body as owners and sometimes they treat some other denomination or group of persons as owners which goes to show that there are no proper rules to recognize them. Many times in such a situation difference of opinion arises resulting in many irregularities and causing much confusion to the parents of those students who send their children to those schools. Mr. Speaker Sir, therefore I would suggest that, when the Government frames rules, they should recognize the ownership first. There are schools which are run by some Mission that Mission should be recognise the as owner and also those schools which are owned by the village Durbar the village Durbar should be recognised as the owner and some other may be run by a Church which we call "Balang" in Khasi Hills, so this Balang  may be made owner so on. But Sir, there is always confusion and irregularities crop up everywhere, specially in those schools in the interior because the Government do not recognise the ownership. Mr. Speaker Sir, on this, I would like to request the Government to look into this matter properly and frame such rules for all schools. When the report of the Commission  is received they should take this suggestion into consideration and then  on the recognition of the schools Sir, I feel that when the Government has given permission for running schools with all the assistance from the Government, there should not be any delay in granting this recognition. Because  unless they get this recognition from the Government, the students who have passed from one school and want to go to another school for higher education are again subjected to another test, for getting admission in another school. Moreover, Sir, it gives much trouble to students as they will have to appear many examinations in the same year.

Mr. Speaker : I think the educational institutions should have a test  for giving admission to the students coming from another school. 

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh : Of course Sir, there should be a test. But what I would like to say is that if a student is to get transfer form one school to another, why should they sit again for the test. In fact, when the school is satisfied that a student has passed and after all this also is a Government Aided School, why should the question of testing the students arise again'. But it may be because of the delay in recognition', they are being subjected to such tests. But if both the schools are recognised then they need not appear for the test. And then Mr. Speaker Sir, on the standard education as a whole, we find that nowadays  the students have become more or less book worms. because, lots of books are prescribed for the students of Classes IV, V and VI. I do not know whether these books which are prescribed by the Government are up to the standard of education now and that of the standard in the previous days, of course we will find that the standard of education has rather gone down. Therefore, I feel that this should be thoroughly examined by any experts or authority which the Government may appoint. Mr. Speaker Sir, we will still remember that in those old days in the primary school we had only a few books-like First Reader, Second Reader etc., and those books really built the character of the students . But now a days I do not see that there is such a book which builds the character and integrity of the students. Therefore Mr. Speaker Sir, with these few observations on education, I would like to urge upon the Government to pay more attention to these middle schools which are everywhere in the State and specially in the rural areas and atleast these schools should be treated at par with those Government Schools and with these few observations I move the cut motion.

*Shri S.D. Khongwir : Mr. Speaker Sir, I would also like to associate myself with the mover of the cut motion on this very important subject-education. And while I do so Mr. Speaker Sir, I think it is relevant that I should refresh the memory of all on one very important line which has found a place in this Budget Speech of the Hon. Finance Minister, when he says that " I seek the co-operation of the hon. Members and through them of all the people". Mr. Speaker Sir, our is a democratic system of Government and democracy requires participation in the Government process by a large portion of the citizens. I also believe Mr. Speaker Sir, that the only key to the upliftment of our people largely lies in education. Now Mr. Speaker  Sir, how can we inform our people about anything; how can educate them unless and until our people are equipped with certain educational knowledge and understanding? Sir, perhaps it is not within the purview of this cut motion that I should speak about the aims and objects of education or the improvement of education at this stage. but Sir, I think that each and every one of us will understand this fact that education is really very  important. We are indeed very fortunate to have our own State, because we have in our State  two very young energetic Education Minister and I would like to join chorus sung about three or four days ago by the hon. Finance Minister. At least he has advocated that " we wish that since  we have come up and we are matured at least all of us should return next time and not only return but also to take up this take up this time and not education in our State. Mr. Speaker, Sir, atleast at this juncture I would come directly to this cut motion about his the policy of the Government in so far as education is concerned. It is said here in this august House and also that primary education is the responsibility of the District Council. To a certain extent Mr. Speaker Sir, I agree that the District Council has got the responsibility according to the provision of the Sixth Schedule to control and manage primary education. But at the same time, Sir, this Government has also got the over all responsibility on primary education. I would like to bring out one aspect in so far as primary education is concerned. I have visited a  few schools in the district and I have found that in some schools there is only one teachers. Now, Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to expatiate on this point. Now let us take 2 schools, school No.1 and school No.2 there are 20 pupils. Now by virtue of the number in the schools No.1 that there are 50 pupils. The Government of he District Council has appointed 2 teachers and the number of classes are3. But in the school where there are only 20 pupils there is one teacher whereas the number of classes remain the same, say classes 1, 2 and 3.

Mr. Speaker : There are 5 classes.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Yes, but just for example, let me say 3 classes, or should I follow your line Mr. Speaker Sir, I will also say 5 classes, 5 numbers  of different  classes but because there are only 20 pupils, there is only one teacher. Now Mr. Speaker Sir, I have seen that this  teacher who is managing this particular school with 20 pupils finds a lot of difficulty in managing the school because one teacher has to manage 5 different classes, 1 to3 and A & B. whereas in this other school, the same number of classes, because there are 50 pupils, the school has got 2 teachers. Now I would suggest to the Government of  course, I would like to speak in my own motion also because it covers this policy, so I will not move my own motion when it comes. I would suggest the Government to consider these points and see that the minimum number of teachers for any particular schools should not be less than 2 whether there are only 20 or 30 pupils or more, at any time, in any particular school the number of teachers should not be less than 2. Mr. Speaker Sir, I am very grateful for the statement made by the Government in the "Review of the implementation of Development Schemes". The Government here........

Mr. Speaker : What page?

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Page 43 on social and economic services. In order to achieve the goal of universal education in the age group of 6-11 years. On primary schools the sum of Rs.8 lakhs will be spent for entertainment of additional teachers, and also the target of additional enrolment of 9000 students in the age group 6-11 is expected to be reached. To achieve this object steps were taken for construction of 50 primary schools. Now  Mr. Speaker Sir, it appears from this that now the chief goal of primary education as adumbrated by the State Government is to get as many as possible of the young boys and girls to enter into different districts of the State. Now, Mr. Speaker Sir, it is true that the Government may achieve this target. We may achieve to get our boys and girls from the villages to go into these schools. We may even get more than 9000, we may get 10,000 or 12,000. But Mr. Speaker Sir, as has already been pointed out earlier that the standard of teaching in these schools has gone down so low that I cannot understand how the parents will feel about their children going to school when everyday after they come  back from the school, they do not get anything because as I have said, of the dearth in the number of teachers that are being appointed in the schools. We do not need to travel as far as Nongstoin or Bhoi area or in the rural villages of Khasi Hills and Garo Hills. Let us speak of the urban areas. Let us say about Nongthymmai or Mawlai and other areas close by to Shillong. If you check the students that are sent to school in the morning, you will find that they will take their exercise book but continuously for 3 or 4 days nothing is being written in the exercise books and no home work is being given to the pupils  because it is humanly impossible for the teachers to cope with the huge number of pupils in the schools. I view this with grave concern and responsibility as a responsible representative. Mr. Speaker Sir, unless we make education in a creative process, the parents will naturally be justified in feeling that their children who are sent the schools are more useless than when they are at home. So the idea that I want to bring home to the Government is to improve the standard of education right from the primary or pre primary stages.

        Next Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to say a few words on the status of teachers. It is well known to us that teachers have more or less acquired what is called an underdog status. Mr. Speaker Sir, let us take from the point of view of their pay and allowances and their service education which are very very unfavorable to the teachers especially in so far as their pay is concerned. As already expressed by the few hon. Members while speaking on education, one hon. Member has said I remember, that the pay of a peon is much more than what a graduate teacher is getting. So we can very well understand what kind of teachers we will get if their pay is not improved. Naturally if these teachers do not get adequate pay they will be disappointed, discontented and naturally Mr. Speaker Sir, which I would like to bring to the notice of the Government is with regard to the training of teachers. In so far as this District is concerned, in two  different institutions, one is the Basic Training Centre, here in Shillong and the other is the Normal training School in Cherrapunjee. I have just come to learn, about a year ago that a person who has been trained from the Shillong Centre of the Basic School, when he comes out and joins in the school he gets a lower scale of pay, whereas a person who has been trained in the National Training School at Cherrapunjee, when he comes out and goes to the field for training, he gets a higher scale of pay. I cannot understand why there is this difference. What is the standard of training that is being imparted at least in this Basic Training School in Shillong. Mr. Speaker Sir, it should be the endeavour of the Government to improve the standard and not to lower it. Now if a teacher will have his choice, he will never go for training in this Basic School at Shillong because he will understand that after he comes out of this Basic Training School, he will get less payless pay than the one who comes out from the Normal Basic Training School at Cherrapunji. So I would request the Government to look into this anomaly and try to rectify these matters in so far as teachers are concerned. it is also a well known fact in so far as Primary School teachers are concerned, we have come to learn that there are certain categories of teachers whose posts are pension able whereas some categories pf posts are not pension able. I cannot understand that there are some teachers who are getting the same scale of pay and who may be appointed by the Government or the District Council at the later stage. I am speaking of the teachers of the State-not only of Khasi Hills but of Jaintia Hills and Garo Hills. We cannot understand Mr. Speaker Sir, how these irregularities have cropped up.

        Then I would like to make a reference with regard to the teachers of the Basic Schools in our State. We have several of these Basic Schools and to my astonishment, I know teachers who have been serving in these schools for the last 10, 15, or 20 years, their  services have not been confirmed. They have been appointed by the Government. Their service books also have been written moist probably by the Director Public Instruction and they also get their pay from the Government . But I cannot understand how is it possible for these teachers, especially for those who have been working for 10,15, or 20 years that even at this stage, their cases of confirmation have not been settled. Mr. Speaker Sir, there is another point with regard to the appointment or recruitment of teachers in the Lower primary Schools. From the remark made in the Pay Commission's Report there words are being used 'non-matriculate should not be recruited in future'. This immediately poses a problem especially for the schools in the interior. We have been discussing so much and we hear also from the Government about the difficulties they have faced with regard to the non-availability of doctors. No doctors are willing to go to the interior. Now, if this condition is there that non matriculate should not be recruited in future for the posts of teachers in the Primary Schools, then immediately there will be a lot of problems. Unless and until the Government start thinking of improving the standard of high schools in different areas of the State of high schools in different areas of the State so that it will attract the people to go and get their education in their respective high schools, I cannot see, Mr. Speaker Sir, that in the near future the District Councils will be in a position to get matriculate teachers for teaching in their schools. So Mr. Speaker Sir, this is just an alert that we are giving to the Government. I would request the Government to see this and straightaway try to deal with things as they come so that in the near future, we will not be facing these difficulties. Mr. Speaker Sir, there are so many things to be spoken on education, but there are other members who would like to speak on this very important subject. But there is only one more point which I would like to bring and that is, even though it is the last but not the least, to advocate the idea to the Government through you, Mr. Speaker Sir, of the long cherished dream-I say dream-to the Government for immediately starting a Government College at Mawlai.

Shri W.A. Sangma, Chief Minister :What is the distance from Shillong?

Shri S.N. Koch : It is quite far (laughter) So with these few words Mr. Speaker Sir, I associate myself with these few words Mr. Speaker, Sir, I associate myself with this cut motion and I support it.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : It is quite far (laughter ...) So with these few words Mr. Speaker Sir, I associate myself with this cut motion and I support it.

Shri S.N. Koch : Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to support the cut motion moved by the hon. Member. I disapprove the policy pursued by the Government . In fact at present from what we are seeing it appears that the Government has no definite policy on education. The policy if at all there is in the party given by the British Government and partly which we got from the Assam Government, but so far this Government has not taken any definite policy as to how we should mould our educational system in our State so that it caters to the need and produces the men we require. There are criticisms everywhere on the educational pattern followed through out the country. But if we look at our State, then it is more than the criticism mounted either in the press or through the platforms and if we go a little further, we will find that the educational system has become a laboratory and students are either converted into rabbits or rats. In the scientific laboratories, some medicines or scientific inventions are tested like that. The policy keeps changing after 12 years then 10 years or 11 years and o on. Then again, it is not successful.

Shri W.A. Sangma, Chief Minister : This is the Government of India's policy.

Shri S.N. Koch : Whether it is the Government of India policy or the policy of our Government, but now we have 12 years, then two years and again two years and after that how many years. I do not know. Sir, if we constantly keep changing the system of education our students naturally will not only get confused but many of their lives will be spoiled.

Mr. Speaker : How?

Shri S.N. Koch : When there are constant changes in the system , naturally the text books and teaching methods also go changing. This put the students and the teachers into a great difficulty in picking up new system. Moreover, when the syllabus is changed frequently it is difficult for the students to get text books and they have to spend the entire period of the year searching only for text books and sometimes they have to appear the examinations without any books at all and naturally they fail and this spoils their careers. This is one of the many instances. So I would request the Government, through you Sir, that it should follow a definite policy so that it could meet the educational requirements of our State.

Mr. Speaker : What policy do you mean? Is it the formula 12+2+3 or 12+2+2.

Shri S.N Koch : That of course, should be examined by the experts. Immediately I cannot say now, but the frequent changes of policy....

Mr. Speaker : Now I enquire of the hon. Member if he knew about the new formula 10+2+3.

Shri Plansingh Marak : The hon. Members seems to be ignorant of that and since this formula has been introduced by experts, I see no reason  why he should comment on this, he should leave it to the experts.

Mr. Speaker : I do not want the discussion  to get out of hand, I will inform the hon. Member that so far as the formula which he has spoken is concerned, it is still not yet finalised or decided by the Central Government or any State Governments. It is still under consideration of the educationalists all over the country. Also I will inform the hon. Member that the formula 10 +2+3 was recommended in the last Vice Chancellors' conference and this is not the concern of the State Government. So I will ask the hon. Member that when he speaks to the policy of the State Government, he should concentrate on that particular portion which concerns the functions in education. Also the point referred by the mover of the cut motion  is with regard to schools and deficit schools an the unsatisfactory working of this school or this way or and recommends to the Government to do it this way or that way. The hon. Members seems to digress to much on the policy and I will not allow this. I think the Minister also will find it difficult to reply.

Shri S.N. Koch : Now Sir, coming to that point, since it is an All India policy as I came to know from the Chair and also it is yet to be approved, I would request the Minister that while adopting or rejecting it to see that beneficial to our people and our students are not experimented upon just like rats and rabbits. This I would like to stress very much.

        Another point on which I would like to speak is about our Lower Primary School Teachers. Our Government has not adopted any definite policy with regard to the Lower Primary School teachers. In our State there are about 8000 Lower Primary School Teachers. But of course, this statistic is subject to correction. One of the hon. Members has spoken on this also and has mentioned about their pension;  where some of them get and others do not get the pension benefits. In this respect, I understand that those teachers appointed by the State Government get the pension and those appointed by the District Council do not get it. This is the thing and up till now, Government has not come up with a legislation for safeguarding the services of these teachers. They are not only low paid employees, but they are working under circumstances which are very difficult. They have to work in the villages and the interior and they serve for 30 to 35 years and when they attain old age they are simply grown out of their services and there is nobody to think or look after the. So Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to suggest that Government should come up with a legislation or with a policy statement that the posts of Lower Primary School Teachers be immediately provincialise as has been done in Assam. In Assam, Lower Primary Schools are provincialise.

Mr. Speaker : You mean including the Autonomous District of Mikir and North Cachar Hills.

Shri S.N. Koch : Sir, that of course I do not know.

Mr. Speaker : If you want to ask the Government to amend Paragraph 6 of the Sixth Schedule, then that is a different matter altogether.

Shri S.N. Koch : Mr. Speaker, under the Constitution of India....

Mr. Speaker : Without the Constitution, how can we function?

Shri S.N. Koch : What I mean to say is that though these schools are under the District Councils, yet the post of teachers could be provincialise. By provincialisation it does not mean we take over the schools. In Assam they have provincialise them, and the Lower Primary Schools are put under the Elementary Board of Mahkuma Parishad.

Mr. Speaker : Mr. Koch, I cannot allow any discussion which is in the contravention of the Sixth Schedule and the idea of taking over primary education by State Government. You should actually ask the State Government to take up with the Government of India to amend Paragraph 6 of the Sixth Schedule. Otherwise it will be illegal for the State Government to take over primary education just like that.

Shri S.N. Koch : Once again, I would like to clarify on that point, Mr. Speaker Sir, provincialisation of the posts of Lower Primary School teachers does not mean taking over of the schools from the District Councils. As we are aware we are deputing our officers to the District Council, and likewise the posts of Lower Primary School teachers  can be provincialise and these unfortunate souls are given protection especially in their old age, when they are thrown out of their services and when they could no longer  work for their livelihood. This is my humble suggestion to Government and I hope Government  will think and feel for these unfortunate Lower primary School Teachers. Also I would request Government to take up with the Government of India to amend Paragraph 6 of the Sixth Schedule if it stands in the way as the hon. Speaker has pointed out. But my whole point is that I actually want that the services of the Lower Primary School Teachers be given due protection.

 Mr. Speaker : In other words, what you want to say is that Government should appoint primary school teachers and that they should be given to the District Councils on lien?

Shri S.N. Koch : There should be some procedure in this respect worked out to govern the matter between the District Councils  and our Government. What is the aim, the main objective is to give protection to the Lower Primary School Teachers in their old age. if we speak of procedure and then we keep quiet then I think it will not be a sound policy on the part of our Government.

Shri Plansingh Marak : How can he intervene the provision of the Constitution? He does not understand what is the actual meaning of maintain and manage. I would seek his clarification.

Shri S.N. Koch : I am not a Minister to give such a clarification.

Shri Phlansingh Marak : Mr. Speaker Sir, because he ahs contravened against the Constitution . He should have stated whether the responsibility of the District Council can be diverted to the State.

Shri S.N. Koch : I would request the hon. Member to go through the States Re-organisation Act. There is a provision, that is, if the State Government feels in this case that education is to be brought under the State Governance they can take it into themselves.

Mr. Speaker : I think I have to intervene again. The amendment to paragraph 12 of the Sixth Schedule  deals only with subjects of Paragraph 1 of Paragraph 3, and with Paragraph 8 and 10 and not with Paragraph 6, which deals with primary education.

Shri S.N. Koch :Mr. Speaker Sir, I cannot understand why the hon. Member from the treasury bench is so much against the lower primary schools.

Mr. Speaker : If you accept my suggestions, next time it will be better if some of us have to contest to the District Councils to see what are the conditions of the primary School teachers. (Laughter)

Shri Plansingh Marak : I would suggest that to Mr. Koch (Laughter)

Shri S.N. Koch : I would like to close the chapter on primary school teachers because so much of controversy has been raised from the other side.

        Now regarding secondary education the same system which we have inherited from the Britishers is still going on till today. That is if somebody wants to teach his children, somebody needs a school somewhere to the public shall have to come first with students' fund, school buildings, etc., then only our Government directly comes into picture. This is the system we inherited from the Britishers and it is existing till today. Mr. Speaker Sir, you know our State is a backward State where most of our people are ignorant , uneducated. At present our people are such that we have to teach the people to tell them to send their children to the schools so that they can  know A, B, C, much less to come forward with money and responsibility to open a school yet knowing it fully our Government wants the people to come first, then only the Government will come forward with help of Rs.5 or Rs.10 as aid and such schools will be known as Government Aided Schools. Mr. Speaker Sir, we should thoroughly change this system and Government should thoroughly change this system and Government should come forward boldly to set up school wherever necessary.

(At this stage , the Speaker left the Chamber and Mr. H. Hadem, Chairman, occupied the Chair)

        Mr. Chairman Sir, the aid that is being given by the Government is too meagre and the money which is given to the Committees or the schools is also insufficient to pay the teachers. So the grants should not only be liberalised but also the quantum of grants should be made sufficient and meaningful. I know the Education Department is now facing financial stringency and it could not have much money like our neighbouring State of Nagaland as we do not know how to process. Our Ministers our officers cannot impress upon the Government of India for more funds and that is the reason why the Government of India could not release the money to help the educational institutions in our State. Very recently, I had an opportunity to meet the Director of Public Instruction. He said that the Prime Minister has said this time " let education be started under a banyan tree"." Government is not going to give more money". I do not know how far this statement is correct. In any case, according to me, Government is not ready to give money to the aided schools for the construction of school buildings as well as the Government of India is not releasing funds. In this respect, I must say that our educational standard has come down to the lowest level. The reason of educational standard going down is due to putting civil servants at the top of Education Department who had no opportunity  or occasion to come into touch on the performances or to learn at all of the activities and performances of the Education Department as to how there schools or colleges are run. I have no doubt about the integrity, intelligence and efficiency of these officers and these essentialities might be there but practical  experience cannot be there, with these gentlemen now who are sitting at the top of the Department . The man who sits at the top has to deal with hundreds and thousands of files on education. I doubt unless he is a man of experience or who has dealt earlier with the subject, however intelligent he might be, the system and standard of our education in the State will suffer.

Shri S.K. Marak, Minister Education : May I inform  the hon. Member that many  of the officers who are there are all qualified personnel.

Shri S.N. Koch :  I would like to say Mr. Chairman Sir, that out Government should try to place a man who has got practical experience on education, who actually knows the subject matter, or who has the taste  or dealt  with the subject in his service career. Other wise it makes no difference if we bring a captain in the Educational Department who has got no experience or taste at all about this kind of administration.

Mr. Chairman : Do you mean to say Mr. Koch that at present the Education Department is being run by a person who has got no experience in the field of education?

Shri S.N. Koch : Exactly Sir, because in the Directorate level the top ranking officers are civil servants who have had in their past careers the benefit of supply of sugar, rice etc., in addition to their knowledge of C.P.C., Cr.P.C and all those  things and I believe they do not know what were the syllabuses in 1960 or how the  examinations were conducted or how the classes were conducted. So far my information goes, I think there is no  dearth of people  who are in the educational line who have been long in the educational services, and they could be brought to that level, at least those who are Inspectors of Schools or Assistants Inspectors or those who know how sanctions or permissions should be given.

        Mr. Chairman Sir, regarding the grant in aid now being given it is seen that most of them come in a very impracticable way. The grant usually come after 3 or 4 years and after a long period some schools get only Rs.2,000 or  Rs.3000. Now what can one do with this small amount of Rs.2000 or Rs.3000? Neither can they purchase the necessary articles nor get the C.I. sheets or other materials nor can they start construction.

Mr. Chairman : Now you are contradicting yourself by saying that there is lack of money. So how do you expect the Government within these few years and with such small amounts to construct buildings?

Shri S.N. Koch : Hundreds of the buildings in Nagaland have been converted into.

Shri Sandford K. Marak, Minister Education : Sir, in Nagaland hundreds of school have not been provincialise.

Mr. Chairman : I think the hon. Member should bring definite information to the House.

Shri S.N. Koch : Sir the Assembly is no more there, it has been dissolved I think. So we cannot get the information.....(Interruption)

(A Voice: Anyway, let him continue)

        On another point Sir, I would like to say that our educational system is such that there are high schools, specially in our districts from which every year students appear in the Matriculation Examinations. But within the last 7, 8 or 10 years, they could hardly produce a single matriculate and we have also seen that there is a regular flow of money in these institutions.

Shri P.G. Marbaniang, Minister of State Education etc:  Sir, it is very misleading to say that we have not been able to produce a single matriculate. So I would request the hon. Member to bring in facts instead of misleading the House.

Shri S.N. Koch : But Mr. Chairman Sir, I am not speaking for the entire district or State. I did not say only some schools and for some reasons I cannot disclose the names of the schools.

Mr. Chairman :  It is a very crucial question, I think . So it will be better if you can throw some light  so that the Government will know that such and such schools have not produced matriculates. This will help the Government.

Shri E. Bareh , Minister Agriculture etc : Other wise, do not talk about it.

Shri S.N. Koch : For the interest of the institutions I cannot name it but if the Minister wants we can meet....

(Interruptions)

Mr. Chairman :  How can we believe that such schools exists?

Shri S.N. Koch : Sir, these are documentary facts. And there are also schools the result of which are not only good but also topping the list. But the Government aids to these are meagre as a result of which the Managing Committee or the persons in charge  are not in a position to uplift the lot of teachers and also for the betterment of the educational prospects. I think because our State is very small the Government  can look into all these and that grant be given accordingly. In the sanction of recurring grants also there are some schools which have very few students. But in one year the grants are increased and on what basis? While in some schools the result is good and there is a good number of students, but there is no increase in the grants and sometimes it is only Rs.10 or Rs.50; whereas other schools with few students the grants are increased...

(Interruptions)

(Voices: Rs.10 ? There is no grant of that amount. The hon. Member is very irresponsible)

Shri S.N. Koch : There are instances, Sir, from the previous grants ...

Mr. Chairman : The increase from the previous grants if only Rs.10?

 Shri S.N. Koch : Sir, sometimes the grant is for Rs.500 and then it is increased by Rs.10. So it comes to only Rs.510. This year I do not know because we are to see the sanctions which are yet to come. Anyway, I would like to request the Government, through you, Mr. Chairman Sir, that the Government look into it, specially our young Ministers to look into it and that there should  be something to help these schools which are doing something for the good of the State by producing qualified persons.

Shri Jackman Marak : Mr. Chairman Sir, I rise to oppose the cut motion moved by the Hon. Member. In respect of education I would say that it is one of the burning problems not only in our State but in other parts of the country also. Sir, it is not an easy task for the Government. It is a very hard work how to solve this problem. We are to think not only from the side of the Government but from the side of our people also and so we should work together otherwise it would not be possible to solve this problem. Sir, regarding the maintenance of the M.E. Schools and High Schools- it is a very heavy burden for the Government also to sanction non recurring grants every year and sometimes Government can sanction some amount. But, Mr. Chairman Sir, this  amount sanctioned by the Government to the schools  is not properly used or utilized by the School Secretaries. So, this is the problem, other wise we can improve the maintenance and management of the schools, and this is the reason why we cannot improve our Schools, Sir. Government  has sanctioned some amounts to certain schools but, as I have just said now, the School Secretaries do not utilize the money properly. How to improve this Sir. So far I know this year in Garo Hills 2 M.E Schools and in Khasi Jaintia Hills altogether 6 M.E. Schools are proposed to be provincialise. But Sir, uptil now, no information has been received from the Government . So Sir, in this connection I would like to say, in this august House that in Garo Hills Okabara M.E. School and Chokpot M.E. School should be provincialise- 1 simply say the name of the place (laughter). These two Schools should be provincialise in this current year, which the Government have proposed . Mr. Chairman Sir, the people of those areas also have  received this information not from the Government but from the representatives of the public. So Sir, I request Government to provincialise them.

         Another point, Sir is regarding the maintenance of Schools - M.E. Schools and High Schools. How can we improve the schools, because all over our State, Inspectors of Schools as well as Deputy Inspectors of Schools do not inspect the schools. Unless and until the Inspectors of Schools as well as Deputy Inspectors of Schools, inspects the schools. Why I say this, Sir, is because of the fact that when  grant is being sanctioned for buildings, etc., according to the plans and estimates - the amount should be utilized properly . Before utilizing the amount these Inspectors of Schools as well as Deputy Inspectors of Schools should go to the spot and instruct the people, the Managing Committees, the Secretaries and teaches pf the Schools how to utilize the amount properly. Government is sanctioning this money not for maintaining anybody's family (laughter). They should instruct the people concerned in this way. I have experienced this Sir, because I was also a teachers once.

Mr. Chairman : Do you mean to say that you have experienced that somebody had maintained his family with the grant?

Shri Jackman Marak : Yes, Sir. As I said , I have experienced this because I was a teacher once. I know that the Secretaries of the schools do not utilise this money properly. So Sir, I request the Government to give proper instructions to the Inspectors of Schools and Deputy Inspectors of Schools so that they instruct the people concerned how to utilise the sanctioned  money properly before construction of the buildings etc. They are the authority in this respect and they should go and check the spot and according to plan and estimates, that these schools buildings should be constructed.

        Again Sir, regarding the retirement of teachers. I have seen that for over 3 years now on or two M.E. School Teachers have retired. But they have no hope to get their pensions. How Government is doing? I request Sir, that these things also should  be looked into. With these few words  Sir, I oppose the cut motion.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Mr. Chairman Sir, while supporting the cut motion I have certain observations to make. Sir, there are various points to be raised, but I will deal with only certain points and leaving the other points to my other friends.

        Sir, now coming to the buildings of schools in the State, as one of my friends has stated that the Prime Minister had made certain observations that schools should  re run under the Banyan trees but unfortunately, we do not have so many banyan trees here and since our State falls within the monsoon area and since it receives the largest amount of rainfall in the worlds, we must have buildings. And so far as buildings grants are concerned, Sir, we have seen that the schools which are already in existence are in a very dilapidated condition which requires expansion also on account of increase in the number if students. In such schools also we find that the Government has not given proper attention and grants have not been given. But in certain cases grants have been made to the tune of thirty thousand, forty thousand rupees but there are schools where there is dire necessity, their cases have gone by default. So I want to urge upon this Government that they should, through their inspecting staff have a proper survey by themselves and make allocations to the needy schools in a proper way without any discrimination whatsoever. I  have noticed with regret that there is discrimination. It should not be atleast in the matter of education. Sir, there are schools in the Bhoi area and even in Shillong where hostel facilities must be provided for the students coming from different parts and different parts and different corners of the State but in those schools also we find that no facilities have been provided for those students who would stay and continue studies. From the time of the  composite of Assam some schools have been provided with grants for hostels but after achieving our own State with grants for hostels but after achieving our own State that practice has been discontinued. Therefore as  result money which was allotted by the Government of Assam is either with the Managing Committees un-utilized or has been utilized in different other channels for which it was not meant. Therefore, such cases should be looked into and consideration given to the need for having hostels and more grants should be made available  to the schools so that they may provide residential facilities to those students coming from far off places. Sir, there is provision for laboratory grants to be given to the schools both High Schools and M.E. Schools. In  this respect also, Sir, many schools here in Shillong and other parts of our State have not received such grants. In this connection I should say that the Government should not act only after getting petitions or memorandum from the schools concerned. It is the policy of the Government that we should have scientific or science oriented education in our State and for that matter the Government of India has already come out with a policy in the  matter of education. Under the scheme of re-orientation of education, education should be work based and it should be science oriented. Therefore, it should be the endeavour of the Government to make available funds to each and every school in the State so that our Students will not be lagging behind in getting themselves equipped with scientific knowledge right from the primary stage. In the matter of grant also I find there are some discriminatory practices. Sir, we want that our students should get technical education and there are institutions in the  State which are imparting technical training for the benefit of the students who have not studied in schools or colleges even. We want that they should be equipped with certain knowledge so that they may earn their livelihood by certain other craftsmanship. Now I will cite an instance, i.e., we have one Assam Hindu Mission School at Lower Mawprem. There we have got technical branch for weaving for the benefit of those poor destitute women who have to earn their own livelihood after getting some  knowledge of some technical subject in certain fields so that they will be able to make their both ends meet. We  have applied and brought this matter to the notice of the Government but only last year we have been given only Rs.500 for yarn. But we have to pay the teachers and we have to expand the school. There are more entrepreneurs more candidates. So we want that for having technical studies in their institutions they should be given grants so that they would become useful members of the society.

(At this stage the Speaker took the chair)

        Sir coming to primary Schools I should say it is a very controversial subject. Some primary schools are under the State Government and some are under the District Council. Now our primary school teachers, as many other hon. Members have spoken....

Mr. Speaker : You also spoke several times. So please don't repeat.

Shri D.N. Joshi : This time I am speaking for something else. The teachers should get the amount as their  emoluments which will enable them at least to make their  both ends meet. At least in respect to pay they should not be inferior to grade IV employees of the Government.

Mr. Speaker : This point you have repeated several times.

Shri D.N. Joshi : The grade IV employees of the State Government are getting mote than 250 rupees and now under the Central Government the Grade IV staff are getting more than Rs.400 and in some cases more than Rs.500. Whereas our primary school teachers are getting to more than 150 rupees. If they fall within the Selection Grade then, of course the fortunate few are getting 165 rupees. So this is a very horrible state of affairs and we want that the Government must consider this aspect of both the teachers who are under the State Government and the District Council. The bulk of the money goes from the State Government and, therefore it is our primary responsibility to see that the District Councils are also in a position to pay the teachers. It is our responsibility to see that the money that we have given to them, goes to the teachers in time and the teachers are paid in time. The emoluments they get should be a little more. Therefore, I urge upon the Government in this connection, that the recommendation of the Assam Pay Commission should also be made applicable to those teachers with retrospective effect as  already promised by the Governor i.e., from the 1st January, 1973 and they should be made applicable not only in the case of Primary School teachers but also in the case of M.E and High Schools Teachers when they are under the deficit system of grant. They should be made applicable also to those teachers who do not fall under the deficit system of grant. That is the ad-hoc grants which the Government is giving them. In view of the rising cost of living, rise in prices of essential commodities and the modern way of life, we should at least increase it is not double it.

        Now Sir, I come to Hindi Education. We all know that Hindi is a very important language and it is a lingua franca of India. Now the Central Government has laid down a policy that in all officers, the officers must speak Hindi and in examination it plays a very important role and for our national integration also the spread of Hindi is very essential. Here in our State of course I do blame that the Government has not taken steps, but I say the Government has taken certain steps. But I should like to urge upon the Government to see that each and every school gets a Hindi teacher and every student is made to learn Hindi. It should not be made an optional subject, but a compulsory subject and we should see that if there is no fund, the Government of India may be approved and fund will come from their side, but we should approach for additional allocation of funds. So the other day I came to learn of one school in Nongstoin which was taken over by the Government very recently and some of the existing teachers were given appointment by the Government and some teachers who were rendering very good service were not  given appointment at all, Very recently three teachers came to me and one of them was a Hindi teacher, but so long as the school  was not taken over by the Government, the Managing Committee was very satisfied with his performance and that particular teachers who was rendering a good service was not given appointment by the Government now on the ground that he has not got the qualification. When he has acquired certain experience and put it long years of service he should have been appointed by the Government, but now he is thrown out of employment. These things should not be there. If only a diploma holder applies for the post and without considering whether he has got experience or not would be taken into consideration by the Government. I feel Sir, that experience should be there and a man with long standing experience who has got knowledge in that particular subject should be appointed.

        Then Sir, in the matter of inspecting staff of the Inspectorate in the Education Department, I have certain observations to make because certain suggestions were made but they have not been attended to up till now. I am very sorry Sir, to say that the Education Department  has not yet recruited officers in the Inspectorate for inspecting purposes. Even those who are in the line do not have knowledge of Hindi other than English, Khasi or Garo the tribal languages of the State. But there are other schools where children studying there are non tribals, there are non tribal schools also like Bengali, Assamese, Hindi or even Urdu but when Inspectors go for inspection to those school they are supposed to not only see the  offices of the headmaster or offices of the Secretary, but they have to go for checking the class rooms also. But how can an Inspector who has got no knowledge of a particular language in which instruction is impaired in that school, so justice to his work and give a fair report to the Government when he himself does not know that language. Even there are a number of schools run by people belonging to other communities or non tribals for which I have given a number of suggestions but these suggestions although they were taken not of but nothing has been done up till now. So I urge upon the Government that a fresh recruitment from among other communities, non tribal communities also or even from among the tribal communities of those who are well versed in this particular language. I do not know why only people from the tribal community should be recruited when they do not have knowledge in that particular language in that language must be offered appointment in the inspecting staff. That is a dire necessity of our schools today. Therefore, I urge upon the Government to take proper care of this matter right now.

        Now Sir, many schools and colleges in our State do not have play grounds. You know Sir, sports and games are part of education and they are not only parts of education but parts of students life. It has got connection  with the health of our students. So proper facilities must be there in those schools and colleges which do not have play grounds at all. We want not only indoor games but  outdoor games also so that our students can learn the games well and this will form part of their education. I have seen many schools in the rural areas and even some where here in Shillong also do not have many playground facilities. So a place  should be found out for making playgrounds for those schools where there is no playground facility. There are certain schools having play grounds in the Cantonment areas. They have acquired certain land under lease system and now since the lease has expired the Cantonment authority does not renew it and in spite of repeated approach and appeals, still they have not been able to get the lease renewed. So I urge upon the Government to take up the matter with the Government of India so that play ground facilities in the Cantonment of India so that play ground facilities in the Cantonment areas are not denied to those students reading in those schools. We should process it further for the benefit of our students. Sir, one of my friends has said that due to change in the structure of education some of the lives of the students have been spoiled. But he could not substantiate it. I have got the proof, Sir. That one boy was selected for medical study in 1974 and for which he has passed Pre-University course and also had persuaded his students up to B.Sc. According to his qualification, he  was selected here for pre-medical studies and was sent to Banaras College or some other college. But Sir, he was rejected on the ground that he cannot be taken in the pre-medical course, because that one year course is no longer there. Though he was a graduate of science, that intermediary came in his way. Mr. Speaker Sir, this year also one Nepali boy was selected for  medical course. He passes the Pre University course from N.E.H.U,  and accordingly he was sent to Bhubaneshwar University. But he was rejected on the ground that the University there did not recognize the P.U.C or the B.Sc or B.A of N.E.H.U. This N.E.H.U. also is a Central University but Sir, I do not know what is the reason behind it for not recognizing our  N.E.H.U.

Mr. Speaker : I think you have got the wrong information. In India all the Universities recognize each other and if the students could not get seat then he has the right to even to get redress from the Court and in so far as this case is concerned, I do not think that it is the fault of the State Government. And when it affects the N.E.H.U. then it also affects the other Universities also in the whole country. Of course I shall not be speaking about Universities in foreign countries.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Mr. Speaker Sir,  I also had the occasion to talk to the Minister of Education in this regard and I know that the Minister in charge of Education will bear me out in this connection. Sir, I was given to understand that  N.E.H.U. was not recognised perhaps by the Central Government and in this regard I would like to urge upon the Government to take up this matter with  the Government of India and also with the University Grants Commission or with the Inter University Grants Commission also so that the life of that particular student is not spoiled. Mr. Speaker Sir, I was wondering why our University of the magnitude of the Central University does not get recognition from the Utkal Universities. There may be certain anomalies which should be looked into.

Mr. Speaker : There is nothing wrong with the system There n\may be something wrong with the information that you have got. No student will be deprived of admission when he is selected, provided he does get the minimum marks prescribed by a particular college or university.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Yes Sir, that student was selected by the University and he was also sent to certain college for taking up medical course but he was rejected.

Mr. Speaker : I think we need not centre around this instance. It is better we proceed with the main point.

Shri D.N. Joshi : So Sir, what I would like to sat further is that some of our sister States in India have taken up schemes to award pension to old people. It is an old age pension and the West Bengal Government have come up with this scheme for giving pension to the old people and they are persuading the matter and some other States are also taking up this scheme or I would rather say that they are also falling on the queue to provide this facility. Here some  of the Hon. Members urged upon the Government to make schemes to give pension benefit  to our teachers and also to fall in line with them and urged upon the Government that the teachers who render yeoman service to the society, to our children and to our future citizen, their lot should be looked into and they should not suffer in the old age. May be they may be serving in the private institutions. Nevertheless, these institutions are getting Government grants. Therefore, I want that the Government should implement certain schemes so that our teachers, be they of the primary or aided M.E. or High Schools or deficit schools, they should be given old age pension so that after rendering so much of service to the society at their old age they should have something at least to have two square meals every day. With these few observations, I again support the cut motion.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot : Mr. Speaker Sir, in spite of the fact that many of the hon. Members have taken part in this cut motion and most of the important points have been already touched by them, I am still not happy to just listen to them quietly. Sir, education, as a matter of fact. as each and every one of us agrees, is the only key to development. Well I do not want to repeat it here. But I would like to point out just one single line, i.e., on technical education. The Government have so far been facing unemployment problem not only here in our State but also everywhere in India. The question here is why we face this problem? My answer to this is that it is partly because the Government have not paid due  attention to the development or to the establishment of technical education in which the students are taught at  proper time and are taught as to how to utilize their studies for the benefit of the country when they leave their schools. It is only through these institutions or schools of technology that they can be guided properly in all such lines.

        Mr. Speaker Sir, I am sorry to note that in Meghalaya, we have only one technical institution, i.e.,  the Shillong Polytechnic Institute. Of course, there is also a private institute, i.e.,  The Don Bosco's Technical Institute which imparts technical education to the students but which is not recognized by the Government. Mr. Speaker Sir, there were instances that when the students who studied in the Don Bosco Technical School appeared in the interviews called by the M.P.S.C. their certificates were not honored by the M.P.S.C. So Mr. Speaker, Sir, in spite of the fact we have only one technical school, of  course, to my humble knowledge, this is one of the best institutions in the whole of Assam, but the Meghalaya Government have not been able to award recognition to it and also the certificates and ........

Mr. Speaker : If this is the best in Assam, why should our Government recognize?

Shri Francis K. Mawlot : As I said, in the whole province of Assam, Don Bosco is one of the best. We were part and parcel of the Government of Assam. Now of course we are  separated from it , and this school which used to be the best in Assam now we own it. The only technical institution in Meghalaya is the Don Bosco's Technical Institute not to say that it is the best or the second best, but as it stands today, this is the only technical school but it is not recognised. So Mr. Speaker Sir, my humble suggestion to this Government is that the Don Bosco's Technical Institute should be recognised and not only that, Government should try to make an effort to establish as many technical institutions as possible. This will help solve the unemployment problem which the State Government is facing and also at the same time it will also encourage our young students to cope with the situation of unemployment.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to take part on the motion moved by the hon. Member from Mawkyrwat. Many hon. Members have at length discussed this very important subject and so many cut motions are there.

Mr. Speaker : I don't wonder because the majority of Members inside the House has at one time or other experience of being teachers.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : But I will not move my cut motion and I will take part on this general policy that has been moved by the hon. Member. I will include my points there also. The other day we have discussed on the decentralisation of schools, but the Minister had not replied to my point. I would like to refer again to the report that the Government while implementing the policy on education, Government is encouraging centralisation of education that means, brining all the schools or improving the schools in Shillong town only and leave the interior like that. So many schools have come up in every nook and corner of Shillong where there are M.E. Schools, High Schools and colleges, but we know that these schools and colleges, especially have no accommodation at all. Because of the fact that there is a rush of students from the interior to Shillong and Government have encouraged to expand these institutions which are there in Shillong. I would again stress the fact that since the Government is keen to give employment to the young generation to do away with this policy of bringing all the people from the interior to Shillong to have their education here, other wise our expectations will be belied and our anxiety will increase. For example, we want to have doctors in the interior; we want to have teachers in the interior, we want Government officials in many places in the interior especially, agricultural office or, block office, or even P.W.D. division. Moreover, in view of the decision to decentralize the administration, the Government has opened many subdivisions and administrative units and sub units and what not. But there is one difficulty that people are not available to man the vacancies in those sub division and administrative units because once the people from the interior came to Shillong they will adopt easy way of life, they will they to live a luxurious life and no longer like to go back to the interior. This has been the experience that even if they go back to the interior because they do not have any work, they will try to keep themselves in Government jobs here in Shillong When they are posted in the interior, they will ask for transfer to Shillong off and on. We need that the cultivators and the traders will be educated so that they go back to their villages in the field work, they will be good cultivators. So Sir, I suggest that decentralisation of educational centres is the best policy for the welfare of the State.

        Another point I would like to raise is about the partial management in primary education. partially it has  been given to the District Council partially by the State Government. There are two things there Sir, one is that the primary schools run by non tribals are to be maintained by the Government because of the fact that under the provision of the 6th Schedule of the Constitutions, the District Council has been given to control the management of the schools at the primary level, in order that the method of learning should fall in line with the culture, tradition and genius of the tribal people. So it has been laid down in the constitution itself regarding the  control and management of primary education by the District Council as education is a State subject. I do not like to say mush on this as the hon. Member has pointed out that this is not good. I agree with the Government that those primary schools are not properly maintained for so many years. So what I mean to say here is the partial control of the Government over education at the block level and other levels like to secondary education. Sir, most of the primary schools in the interior are maintained and managed by the local authorities either by the Christian organisations or the village organisations or the social organisations that are being organised by our own people in the interior. Of course, those that have been recognised are under the direct control of the District Council, which prescribes the text books and syllabus of these primary schools as well the qualifications of teachers and so on. Thanks to these organisations, especially the Christian organisations which have been running so many schools in the State. But other sections of primary education have been under the direct control and management of the District Council. Sir, regarding the standard, there is much difference in the standard followed in the schools. As the hon. Member from Mawlai has said that there is no uniformity regarding the provision of teachers in the school and there are also overlapping of grants in the primary schools at the block level. For the last two years the Government have given very small amount as grants to the District Councils for expansion of primary education. The District Council will get only a few thousands or at best a lakh of rupees or something like that. So, Sir, at the block level, Government has provided for a bigger grant than what is provided to the District Councils. So the Development Block used to give grants sometimes to the same schools and also they have created rival schools in the villages. Over and above that I know in a particular village, there is a District Council school and there are some touts who used to roam about in the block premises and also loiter in the market, who are always in Shillong, they come to know that there are grants available in the block. So they influence the Block Development Officer or even the Member of the District Council of the representative or the Gram Sevak. They go to them and tell them that in such  and such village, there is a school and that existing number is so great. So a school is necessary because of the rush of students. As we know, the grants are being rushed at the end of the financial year. Sometimes we so not have time even to sit in the Block Development Committee and to make the schemes properly. So these touts used to get the grants from the blocks and open rival schools in the villages and years together they will go there till the M.L.A. or M.D.C visits the villages and finds that there is mushroom growth of schools. In this way, Sir, education grants have become a waste and sometimes splits arise in those villages which nobody can solve. These touts know very well how to convince the people and create some trouble by convincing the headmen or the sirdars or the Chairman of the Managing Committees of the schools and thereby the village is split. This is one of my experiences. I find in Khasi Hills and also in Garo Hills that these touts sometimes during the election time influence very much the M.L.As and the representatives. So, Sir, I suggest that there should be no more duplication in giving  grants for primary education.

        Now I come to nursery schools. I have mentioned this in my cut motion. In a primary school there is a section of nursery school for children of the age group of 4 to 6 years. These children used to give trouble to the teachers in the primary school because they have not attained the age to learn or listen to the teachers. Now, Government has got the programme for opening nursery  schools. These nursery schools sometimes are opened here and there. When a Minister visits one village, there will be some touts who can influence the Minister probably to give some jobs to their wives or their daughters or their relatives. They will tell the Minister that there are quite a good number of boys and girls and a nursery school has to be opened. These touts have got nothing  to do but simply to loiter in the village. They would tell the Minister that we have garlanded, you and the Minister will be pleased and will say 'yes- yes it is very good' and such nursery schools are necessary because there is nobody to look after the children during day time because their parents used to go to the fields for works. But the way the Government is running the nursery schools classes with the primary schools. Sometimes we find that sanction for maintenance of such  nursery schools is for 6 months only and by the time sanction comes, even the teacher will no longer be there. So the children have to leave the nursery schools and go again to the primary schools.


ADJOURNMENT

Mr. Speaker : Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh , you may continue tomorrow. The House stands adjourned till 9.30 AM on Saturday, the 27th March, 1976.

R.T. Rymbai,
Dated Shillong, Secretary,
The 26th March, 1976 Meghalaya Legislative Assembly.

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