PROCEEDINGS OF THE BUDGET SESSION OF THE MEGHALAYA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY HELD AT 9.30.A.M ON 27TH MARCH, 1976 IN THE ASSEMBLY CHAMBER WITH THE SPEAKER IN THE CHAIR .

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Present :  8 Ministers - 3 Ministers of State and - 35 Members.

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Mr. Speaker : Let us start the business of the day by taking up unstarred question No.73


UNSTARRED QUESTIONS

(Replies to which were laid on the table)

Rural Water Supply Schemes in Garo Hills.

Shri Choronsing Sangma asked :

73. Will the Minister in charge of Public Health Engineering be pleased to state-

(a) Whether the Rongrenggiri Water Supply Scheme will be completed within this financial year?

(b) The number of Rural Water Supply Schemes to be taken up during 1976-77 in Garo Hills (the names of proposed schemes to be shown)

(c) Whether the investigation pf the proposed Rural Water Supply Scheme for Bansamgiri, Rongsakgiri village, Bazar Debu and Nengkra has been completed?

(d) If so, whether the scheme will be taken up in 1976-77?

Shri Sandford K. Marak, Minister Public Health Engineering replied :

73 (a)- No. This scheme is likely to be completed during the next financial year.

(b)- A number of Rural Water Supply Schemes in the Garo Hills District are under various stages of investigation and the number of schemes to be implemented during 1976-77 will be known only after the driest weather discharges, etc., are recorded.

(c)- No. These schemes are under investigation.

(d)- Schemes will be taken up subject to the technical feasibility and availability of funds.

Shri Plansing Marak : What was the reason for not taking up these schemes?

Shri Sandford K. Marak, Minister Public Health Engineering  : Mr. Speaker, Sir, due to paucity of funds we could not take up these schemes.

Shri G. Mylliemngap : Since when have investigations been started?

Shri Sandford K. Marak, Minister Public Health Engineering : The schemes were investigated during the dry seasons. I am not sure when they were started, but they were done only in dry seasons round about this time of the year.

Shri Jackman Marak : When will investigation be completed?

Shri Sandford K. Marak, Minister Public Health Engineering  : They are expected to be completed during the next financial year.

Mr. Speaker : No.74.

Contractors allotted works during 1974-75 and 1975-76 for Construction of Roads.

Shri H.E. Pohshna : 

74. Will the Minister in charge of P.W.D., be pleased to state -

(a) The names and addresses of contractors who were allotted works during the years 1974-75 and 1975-76 in the following roads -

(i) The Dawki-Muktapur Road?

(ii) Dienglieng-Nongjrong Wahjajer (portion from Nongjrong to Wahjajer)?

(iii) The Nongjrong-Moodymmai Wahjajer road?

(b) The length of road allotted to each and the amount paid to each of the contractors during 1974-75 and 1975-76?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah, Minister of P.W.D. replied :

74 (a) & (b)- The list is placed on the table of the House.

Construction of a bridge over Lakroh River.

Shri H.E. Pohshna asked :

75. Will the Minister in charge of Public Works Department  be pleased to state :

(a) Whether tenders have been invited for the construction of a bridge over the Lakroh river on the Muktapur-Borghat road?

(b) If so, when?

(c) If not, why?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah, Minister of P.W.D. replied :

75.(a)- No.

(b)- Does not arise.

(c)- Detailed estimate is under preparation.

Fire Fighting Equipment for P.W.D.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh asked :

76. Will the Minister in charge of Public Works Department  be pleased to state  whether Government propose to purchase fire fighting equipment for the Public Works Department in the near future?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah, Minister of P.W.D. replied : 

76 - Yes.

Shri Maham Singh : Sir, whether these equipments will be used for the general public or only for the P.W.D.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah, Minister of P.W.D. : They will be used in all buildings under the charge of the P.W.D.

Shri W. Syiemiong : Whether it is a fact that there are fire fighting equipments have already been purchased?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah, Minister of P.W.D. : Mr. Speaker Sir, some of the fire extinguishers have been installed in the buildings, but we need more fire extinguishers and these will be installed in due course.

Shri G. Mylliemngap : Where are these located ?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah, Minister of P.W.D. : Fire extinguisher are normally installed in buildings where they are needed.

Mr. Speaker : No.77

Accountant in Office of the Superintendent, District Jail.

Prof. Martin Narayan Majaw asked :

77. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state:

(a) Whether there is an Accountant attached to the Office of the Superintendent, District Jail, Shillong?

(b) If not, who prepares the monthly pay bills of the staff, as also the many other bills and accounts for this Jail?

Capt Williamson Sangma, Chief Minister :

77 (a) There is no post of Accountant attached to the Office of the Superintendent, District Jail to Shillong.

(b) The monthly pay bills are prepared by the Assistant Jailor and the work relating to accounts are maintained by the Jailor himself.

Shri H. Hadem : Is it not justified for the jail to have an accountant?

Capt Williamson Sangma, Chief Minister : That is argumentative.

Shri Maham Singh : Does not the Government feel the need of having an accountant?

Capt Williamson Sangma, Chief Minister : You can see from the reply that there is no post. But if there is difficulty then we will consider it. But as it is now, there is no difficulty and the jailor it doing it himself.

Shri W. Syiemiong : How many staff are there in the District Jail?

Mr. Speaker : That is a new question. Now No.78.

Service Co-operative Society 

Shri Samsul Haque :

78. Will the Minister in charge of Co-operation be pleased to state -

(a) Whether any Service Co-operative Society styled "Mohendraganj Service Co-operative Society" was organised last year?

(b) If co, why the same is not being registered by the Department till now?

Shri Ripple Kyndiah, Minister in charge Cooperation replied :

78. (a)- No.

(b)- Does not arise.

Shri S.P. Swer : May we know whether the Department has received any application for registration of Mahendraganj Service Co-operative Society.

Shri Ripple Kyndiah, Minister in charge Cooperation : I require notice for that Sir,

Mr. Speaker : Let us come to the next item. Mr. Lyngdoh to continue from where he left yesterday.

Shri H.S. Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, yesterday I was speaking on Nursery Schools and I will continue my discussion on the same subject. Sir, I think the maintenance of these....... (interruptions)

Shri Maham Singh : Mr. Speaker Sir, I think the hon. Member started with education.

Mr. Speaker : We were about to come to the end.

Shri H.S. Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, this is also education and I must say that the maintenance of these Nursery Schools and Primary Schools in the interior which are under the District Councils is a mere duplication since the same children attend the Nursery and Primary Schools. So as I have already said yesterday, Sir, if this state of affairs is allowed to continue, then there will be wastage of the grants which are given by the Deputy Inspector of Schools for opening Nursery Schools all over the State. As I have explained, what they used to do is to take the children in primary section and enroll them in the nurseries. So Sir, I propose that the grants given  for maintenance of Nursery Schools should be given through the District Councils for the maintenance of  Primary Schools and in this way more teachers could be appointed for these schools. Also the children could start right from the first grade instead of going to the Nursery Schools. Another aspect of education which we have been discussing sometimes is the policy of the Government in encouraging rival schools.

Mr. Speaker : You have discussed that yesterday.

Shri H.S. Lyngdoh : I have discussed about rival schools at primary level only, Sir. Now I am referring to the rival schools at the secondary level. By allowing such  rival schools to function, the progress and standard of education in the State have deteriorated. Of course, there are schools which are set up according to the Assam Education Rules and such rules were also adopted by our Government. But I feel there must be a certain standard for schools which are to be recognised before the permission could be given by the Government. All along the Assam Government gave permission for M.E Schools which have atleast 25 children on the enrolment list. First of all, they will get the permission. But it was all along maintained in the State right from the time of the Government of Assam that when the M.E. Schools have got a total enrolment of 25 then they will get the permission. According to rules, there must be certain conditions to be fulfilled in order that the schools will get the recognition. That is to say, they must possess a playground, they must have qualified staff, they must have a reserve fund and so on and so forth. But what is the position at present? The schools have been opened at random and permission given. For instance , if you say that I cannot substantial what I am arguing I can tell you that in my constituency there are some touts whom I have referred to yesterday, who, want to open rival schools in the areas which is very close to Laitkseh and Pariong. At Laitkseh, the High School upto Class VIII  has been opened. But before permission was given and before they know the enrolment last week an order from the Government that an amount of Rs.500.00 as grant has been sanctioned to that school. So far, I learnt there are about three or four school children in that School which is very close to Markasa, only two miles from Mankasa to Laitkseh and four miles to Pariong but there are so many schools round about the place. This is not a solitary instance, Sir. This has been the policy of the Government. So the effect of this is that the school children sometimes who were reading in Markasa but because they could not pass last year  from Markasa, they have been taken to Laitkseh where there are rival schools although there is a Government M.E. School and High School  at Laitkseh. Now, the Government have allowed another school to be opened at Bynther which is only at a distance of half a mile from Laitkseh.

Shri P.G. Marbaniang, (Minister of State for Education) : Sir, it is not true that we have allowed to open school at Bynther. Government does not know anything about it.

Shri H.S. Lyngdoh : I am not provoking but that is what I have heard that because of the policy of the Government another school has come up at Bynther, and the school children who have been reading in Markasa now they have gone to Bynther and other school children who could not pass in other schools have been taken to Bynther. Government may say that they are not aware of this fact but these rival schools have adversely affected the cause of education and have also affected the school going children as some hon. Members have rightly pointed out yesterday. So, Sir, I would suggest to the Government to strictly follow the rules while establishing schools in any area. I would also remind that the Ministers  should not be guided by sentiments because of oiling by these touts. I would suggest that whether they join this party or that party that should not be the consideration for getting grants from the Government. Because if they do not get any more grants from the Government they may join another party. (laughter). So, the Government should not show favour to certain people in the matter of giving  grants to the schools. I would therefore request the Government that is at all we want that our schools will be progressing and education will be developed there should be uniformity in management of the schools. I am also happy that education has been expanded. But Sir, if  we are going to expand education in this way, it will rather do harm than good to the cause of education and to the welfare of our young people.

        Sir, I will now come to another point. Off and on, we have been discussing on the floor of this House the problem of Basic Schools. There are 11 Senior Basic Schools  here in Khasi Hills Districts. I do not know whether in Garo Hills there are such schools. From my experience I have seen that these Basic Schools have been taken away from the Principal Basic Training School and now they have been placed at par with the other M.E. Schools, that is under the D.I of schools. But so far as these schools are concerned, no proper instruction was given and no inspection was ever made at all and no attention was paid to these schools. There are schools which used to have 6 or 7 teachers previously, now they have got either three or four only. I do not know why those posts which have been vacant due to the resignation of teachers or due to their death have not been filled up. But there are schools having only 3 teachers and no facilities have been given to these Basic Schools. We have seen that for the M.E. Schools the Government has provided grants and other facilities with a view to improving education, but nothing has been done for Basic Schools which, in fact, need science apparatus and other things to be imparted to the school children right from the junior grade. But now we do not see any facilities given to these Basic Schools. At the same time, Sir, the Basic Schools are not properly looked after by the Department and surprisingly enough Government did not know whether they have got the school compound, the school buildings or other facilities. No repair work has been undertaken and these Basic Schools buildings have been deteriorating. Sir I would request the Government to see that these Basic Schools are properly developed. At the same time, there is no case of confirmation of the teachers though many of them are going to retire, may be some of them have already retired from service. But because they were not confirmed, they do not deserve any pension. So Sir, I would impress upon the Government that these basic schools need be looked into and immediately attend to.

        One more point Sir, and that is on the grant of scholarship. We have seen that this Government now, have given scholarship or stipends for hostellers in the State. But I have a personal experience Sir, on this. We know that the  teachers of the schools have recommended to the head of the institutions according to the priority and merit of the case which implies that the best boy in the class is to get this priority. But we have seen Sir, that the Government while giving scholarship or hostel stipends, did not follow the priority recommended by the head of the institution and selection of scholars is being done at random. Most of the well to do students are getting this scholarship or hostel stipends whereas the poor and the deserving students have been deprived. To prove my charge, if you look at the list you will find  that teachers are now facing great difficulty how to distribute the scholarships sanctioned by the department. Only last week on 18th and 19th of this Month, they have issued sanction to one school for scholarships as well as hostel stipends. Then subsequent Sir, on 29th the department has issued another sanction to another school. Just yesterday, I myself being the Secretary of two schools in my constituency, I have got the order to give scholarships and hostel stipends to one boy after another and one school after another. It seems as if somebody had oiled the authority of the  Department for sanctioning the said scholarship. Why not this grant be selected strictly according to the merit list forwarded by the head of the institutions. So Sir, I would like to draw the attention of the Government to this irregularity and that it be regularised immediately. With these few words, I support the cut motion.

Shri H.E. Pohshna : Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to support the cut motion and in doing so, I would like to come first to the organisation or opening of schools and selection of the site of the school. It appears that it is high time that our Government should pay very keen attention to this. Just, now, the hon. Members has spoken about the rival schools in the State. In my Constituency people are asking me who is the new Minister of State for Education as his name has been heard in so many places especially in those places where the people want to have a school or to start a High School and rival school. Therefore, Sir, I think it is high time to consider this aspect of the matter. For the last few years, the policy of the Government is that  the Minister for Education is to visit the schools already in existence but would rather suggest that the Minister should tour frequently to those areas where there is no school and by doing so they will acquaint themselves with the real State of affairs. In this particular instance, I would like to say and I think my friend from Mynso will oppose me (laughter) that there is a vast area  stretching from Mynso to Borato. In this area there is not a single Middle English School not to speak of a High School. There is only one school worth the name and that is the Senior Basic School in Mynso. Why not this Government take some steps to convert this into a high School, because Nartiang is a very big area. Nongbah is a very big area and Mynso is a big village to feed this High School for the entire area of the northern part of Jaintia Hills. We find that in the middle portion, we have got the Sutnga High School, Raliang High School, Mawkaiew High School and Shangpung High School and so on and so forth. It appears that they have concentrated only in one particular block. Therefore, I would like to request the Government to see at least, that one High School Situated in Mynso.

        Another point Sir, is regarding the pay of teachers and many members have mentioned that the pay of school as well as college teachers must be raised. It has been stated that the pay of these teachers is much below the pay of a peon especially in the private schools. In this particular point, I would like to cite only the one story. A shop keeper, once upon a time in the Bazar has got one bird 'Moina' because it can sing and talk, he has put a sign board 'for sale' at Rs.20. On seeing this sign board, another shop keeper who has got an owl 'Because it can think' he said I must fix the prices at Rs.40 for sale. We may see Sir, that even shop keepers in the bazar can fix the special  rate for the birds that can sing, talk and think. To them, these birds have got special qualifications in the bazar, why not our Government teachers who are the builders of our nation. With these few words, Sir, I support the cut motion.

Shri Jormanick Syiem : Mr. Speaker Sir, I would also like to take part in this very important subject. The fact that there are as many as seven cut motions, proves that the subject is really very important. In the first place, Sir, I would like to say that there  are so many  schools in the State run by the different agencies. There are Government Schools, Government aided schools, Mission Schools and Venture Schools. All these schools are in existence in the whole State and the mover of the first cut motion would like to see that those schools got the same standard of buildings. I beg to differ with him in the sense that our schools are not of the same standard and of the same quality of teaching. In our young days, a book was prescribed for the matriculation examination called "England's works in India" I think some of our old people can well remember that in that book, the school were classified as primary and secondary and higher. Primary schools of the British standard was from Class I to Class VI that of course, in between there was what was called Upper Primary upto Class V but Primary was from Class I to Class VI, Secondary from Class VII to Matriculation and higher.

        But now it appears that the lower primary stage is up to Class III and then there is no primary : we straight away come to the Secondary or Middle English or Middle Vernacular as the case may be. I do not know how they fit in but it is called Middle English. There is, no  Primary in the sense that we used to know in our younger days and the Secondary school, they say it starts from Class IV upto Class X and then we  we have the higher stage of college and university. Now to say, that all these schools in the whole State should have standardized buildings, would be too much to expect from a small State like ours. In fact, our leaders after independence, think that even under the shade of a tree the children can be taught and a school can be opened. Of course, that is not possible in these rainy hills. Still there must be some buildings but not up to that standard as the mover of the cut motion would like to suggest to the Government which I think the Government also cannot afford and there is no certainty whether such classes or schools- some of them are called mushroom schools- will continue or how far they can proceed. These are the days in which we do not need just third class matriculates or simple pass B.A; these are days of competition. So I  would rather suggest that instead of good buildings, we  should improve the quality of teaching so that the schools can produce better students who can really compete with the rest of the country. Of course, I admit that there are some Government aided schools which have been shabbily treated although they are very progressive with near about a thousand enrolment. They are poorly equipped and in spite of repeated requests, for whatever persons I don't know, the Government does not seem to pay any attention. I will cite an instance like to Pomlum H.E. School which is very progressive. It is now a Government aided school with very expensive equipments. But is has got proper furniture- not even good benches and desks and some of them are very old. Some classes are suffering from shortage of benches. Now, such schools deserve better attention from the Government.

        As regard other schools which are still in the venture stage or which may turn out to be mere mushroom schools I would not support the mover of the cut motion that the Government should give them that kind of buildings as he expects. What we really need now would be a medical college, an agricultural college and an engineering college which we have not got in this State, although we have got a Central University. Our students have still to go out and seek admission in Gauhati, Calcutta, Dibrugarh and elsewhere. It is true that for other colleges up to B.A or B.Sc. the Catholic Missions and other agencies have started and have really established very good colleges. Our students in Shillong and elsewhere are taking advantage of these colleges and some of them really have come out successful. But I think it is the duty of the Government to see that we should start a medical college which we are really in great need of and also an agricultural college because 80 percent of the people in Meghalaya are agriculturists. As regards the engineering line, we have only one technical institution i.e., the Polytechnic at Mawlai. Although some years  back very few local boys joined there but now quite a good number have left. We hear that there is a shortage of engineers and overseers because we have not got a college of our own in the State. Going outside is very  expensive and it is difficult also to get admission in such colleges. Now, having started a Polytechnic, whether we cannot also start an engineering college. That will also serve as an incentive to our boys and girls to be more studious and industrious for taking up such subjects to qualify themselves to get admission in such institutions. Now, at present because there is no such institutions it seem that  some students although they may have that capacity to study those subjects, do not get any incentives because they have to go outside the State far away from home at heavy expenses. So, Mr. Speaker Sir, I would urge upon the Government , through you that these institutions are really very very essential if our State must keep abreast with the neighbouring States and with the rest of the country.

        Mention had been made about granting of stipends or scholarships by the last speaker. This is a very ticklish question really because the selection of students to get these stipends is not very satisfactory. So I feel that proper criteria must be found out so that the Committee or the Selection Board, as the case may be, who would award the stipends would know exactly how to determine as to what kind of students are entitled to get these stipends or scholarships. Sometimes they go to the wrong persons and even in Post-Graduate Classes-some people have taken admission in such Post-Graduate Classes just for the sake of getting stipends and without being serious in  their studies. I have heard that there are some remarks from the hon. Member and I do not know how far it is true because I am not connected with such reports, there may be at least some truth in them. So, Mr. Speaker Sir, apart from that, I think our Government have made all-out efforts to give educational facilities to all sections of the people both urban and rural. Of course, they may not have been able to do to the satisfaction of every member of this House but it cannot be denied that efforts have been made to give all these educational facilities to all corners of the State and that is why these venture schools and mushroom schools have been started but the Government will have to examine which institutions really deserve to be re-organised or to be helped in the shape of buildings or pay to teachers and all that. As far as basic education is concerned, of course I may not say whether they are suitable for our State  because at one time, these institutions were very promising but as the years go by it seems that the people did not like it so much because they can neither produce good students or good artisans, or the teaching imparted in these institutions probably are un-suitable. However, I  think there is room for improvement of these institutions of the Government consult some experts how best we can adapt for the benefit of our students in those hills. So, I do not like to say much because in my opinion, we have really no reason to complain against the Government although there is enough room for improvement in the various institutions or the schools which should have been recognised which are being aided. And last of all I would like to repeat that the essential need of the moment is that we have at least one Medical College, one Engineering College and one Agricultural College. With these few words I oppose the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : Mr. Hadem.

Shri H. Hadem : Mr. Speaker Sir, in view of the time taken by this particular cut motion. I am particularly not satisfied by not taking part at the same time, in view of the grand invitation by the hon. Member from Nongtalang-I am now taking my stand at least to make some observations. Though a small slip had been sent to me by him requesting me to support the cut motion. I have to say that I stand here to oppose the cut motion. (laughter)

        First of all Sir, I would like to point out in regard to some grants regarding the constituency which I represent. The Member from Nongtalang said that it seems that only in one block there is no M.E. School while the others are having. I do not actually know what does it mean by the word block which he said whether it is the Development Block or otherwise. But I think it is the Development Block, I think not only here but in other parts as well. Moreover, for the particular area which he said that there is not a single M.E. School, I may suggest as he stated that one may be in Borato or Nartiang or something like that. Sir, I would like to let the hon. Member know that there are 2 M.E. Schools, at present one at Borato and one at Saitsama. So they should understand.

Mr. Speaker : He has noted that it is in the northern part of your area because of the southern part he he is remaining silent. (laughter)

Shri H.E. Pohshna : These are in the northern border, Sir.

Shri H. Hadem : So, I would also at the same time Sir, congratulate the hon. Member for advocating the cause of Mynso for a High School and I hope we will come to that annal probably after the Government acts according to his request. (Laughter). Sir, I will come to the Aided Schools. I must thank the Government for having made efforts for the maintenance of the Aided Schools especially in the Jaintia Hills. And this grant has been entrusted to the District Council  for disbursement and for selection of the schools. But so far as this is concerned, I would request the Government to kindly examine the matter carefully because it seems that the private schools, I mean the L.P. Schools managed and controlled by the private bodies- that the authority of these private bodies had not been encouraged by the the District Council at the present stage. Let me cite one instance, Sir. The L.P. School run by the Presbyterian Mission in Shangpung was given the privilege of having a grant in aid from the District Council. But it is very surprising to learn Sir, that it seems though that particular school was not handed over to the District Council, yet the appointments were made direst by the the District Council without the knowledge of the Managing Committee nor the knowledge of that private body itself. And I hope Sir, that this is rather an encroachment on the authority and on the management of these private bodies. I do not know whether this happens only, in this particular school or in the other schools as well but I would suggest that a clear guide-line be given by the Government to the District Council because the management was entrusted to the Managing Committee of the private schools.

       Secondly, Sir, I do not know what is the reason and what is the fate-because it happens also with a Nursery School which has been attached to the Primary School. And, in that Nursery School, Sir, something happens. Teachers were appointed by the District Council and no intimation has even been given to those Managing Committees concerned. Over and above, Sir, I would also like to bring to the notice of the Government that most  of the villages are at present crying for L.P. Schools in their areas. Of course I do not say, as the hon. Member from Pariong has said, that there is a rivalry. So what happens is that in some villages with a population of 2000 or 1500 there is one L.P. School, sometimes two or even three L.P. Schools are there. I will cite one instance. There is one village close to my village where there are three L.P. Schools which according to my humble suggestion are not justified. At the best two L.P. Schools would meet their demand.

        Another point which I want to raise is that there are many schools buildings both M.E and Senior Basic Schools, have been provincialise by the Government. But it is very strange that even up till now it seems that the buildings of the schools and as well as hostels are being maintained by grant-in-aid. I would like to cite one instance with your permission. I had once the  opportunity to come across the school at Mynso and I was shocked  to learn that the school and hostel buildings are being looked after up till now by grant-in-aid. So I would like to suggest that since those schools have been taken over by the Government, construction and maintenance of the schools and hostel buildings should also be done by the Government. In this connection I would also like to point out, as has been pointed out by other Members as well, that there are teachers who have not yet been confirmed in their service although many of them have already retired and some of them died even. As for instance in Shangpung  M.E School there are some teachers who have retired without being confirmed and some of them died already. Similar is the case with two other Senior Basic Schools in our areas. As a matter of fact before all the Junior Basic Schools were handed over to the District Council by the then Government of Assam all the teachers are declared confirmed in their service. But it is very strange that up till now their confirmation has not been endorsed by the Government. I would therefore, suggest that the Government should look into the matter so that there will be difficulty in future. Moreover there are many teachers of both L.P. Schools and Basic Schools who have not received their pensions although they have retired many many years ago. It has put them in a very miserable and pitiable condition. I am afraid, even if they die there will be another difficulty. A death certificate will have to be produced before the court  for releasing that huge accumulation of money. They will have to take the help of lawyers who will never do the things in a proper way. I think this will make the matter more and more complicated and therefore, I would request the Government to kindly look into the matter so that all the pending cases will be disposed of immediately. In this connection I would also request the Government to create at least one post of Hindi teachers in every M.E. and Senior Basic School in view of the fact that our State is very close to the Union. It has been stated in the Budget Speech that sports and games will be given due emphasis for the health and recreation of the students. But in this regard I would humbly suggest that sports and games generally take away most of the time of the students and therefore I would request the Government that al least there should be proper direction for sports and games so that it would not hamper their studies and it will really become good for health and recreation. Last but not the least I would request the Government to raise the pay scale of teachers so that they will be happy to serve in the schools.

        Some of them have rightly suggested that they will be converted into M.E. Schools. Sir, I do not know whether it will be wise for us to jump to the conclusion. What I mean to suggest to the Government is that it should at least examine the feasibility of improving the standard that they will be converted into M.E. School or not. Sir, I very much thank the Government for all the endeavors they have made throughout these four years in the sphere of education. As a matter of fact  it will not be disheartening to this House to learn and see that within a sort periods of four years, so many things have been achieved by the Education Department. I hope the Government will, with all its sincerity, as it had done before, solve all the grievances of our people. With these few words, Sir, I resume my seat.

Mr. Speaker : Before I call upon the next hon. Member I think it is better that I should rather give some directions to the House that at the time that we take up the cut motions, it will be better if those hon. Members who would like to participate to send a list of Members to me because I do not know how many would like to participate. Sometimes there has been a lot of repetitions especially in the cut motion which have to be carried over from one day to the next day. So in this case, how many hon. Members would like to participate?

Shri Upstar Kharbuli : Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to participate. I have got also my cut motion and I want  to take part in the present discussion.

Mr. Speaker : Alright you will get first preference. So now I will not extend the time for any one beyond 10 minutes excepting Mr. Kharbuli; he may get a little  more time because he has got his own cut motion also. Now Mr. Dlosingh Lyngdoh.

Shri Dlosingh Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to associate myself in the discussion of the cut motion raised by the hon. Member from Mawkyrwat, Mr. Rowell Lyngdoh. Besides the valuable suggestions and criticisms put forward by the hon. Member on this very important  Department of Education, let us also remember or take note that our State of Meghalaya has been recently created. Mr. Speaker Sir, within a short period of four years we cannot expect so much of improvement in this particular Department, but anyhow it is good that many suggestions from the very beginning were offered for the improvement of this Department in future, so that we can get better education than other States. Mr. Speaker Sir, since the time at my disposal is limited, now I will touch only a few points. First of all, I want to say a word about basic education in our State. Sir, basic education both Junior and Senior has not improved. The fate of the teachers in those Junior and Senior Basic Schools has been so very unfortunate. They have been denied the privileges enjoyed by other Government employees. Some of them joined their services long long time ago and when they retire they will have to retire without pension or without bonus at all. Therefore, I would suggest to the Government, through you Sir, to think about this matter seriously and take up the case of this particular section of our people which have rendered their valuable services for the good of the nation.

        Secondly, Mr. Speaker Sir, I would like to say a word or two on the Lower primary Schools, i.e., particularly with regard to the Lower Primary Schools falling within  the Shillong Municipality which are directly under the State Government. Mr. Speaker Sir, most of the Primary Schools in Shillong have adopted different languages as medium of instruction. But Sir, I do not know whether the inspecting staff has ever inspected these schools without knowing their medium of instructions in those schools.

        Thirdly, Mr. Speaker Sir, the pay scale of this category of teachers, actually who are the builders of our nation, is very very unfortunate. Most of them are under the Government Sided Schools or Non-Government Schools. But their pay scale is not yet considered by the Government to see that the condition of these teachers is improved.

        Next, Mr. Speaker Sir, I will only say a word about text books in the schools and colleges in the State. Sir, in this particular subjects, I would request the Government, through you, to look properly into this subjects for the future of our own children and grand-children. We have seen from the results of examinations held every year that our students are not coming out successfully in their examinations because of the deficiency in text books system. Our Finance Minister usually mentioned that most of our students are not given proper teaching in mathematics and other scientific subjects. I therefore, would like to say that right from Primary or M.E. Schools let us have more scientific books and give a proper teaching  in mathematics to our students. Moreover, the text books approved by the Text Book Committee at present are not very attractive for the present educational system in our country. Mr. Speaker Sir, especially in Khasi subject there are many books written by many authors which are not different from one another and most of them are not dealing with scientific and technological matters. Neither they are dealing with literature nor history, but our Khasi books are concentrating in a very small range of vision.

Mr. Speaker : I think the hon. member has not read all the literature which have been published. I think it is very unkind of him to pass such remark against the improvement of the society which has contributed so much in the field of education. You are saying that there is no translation of text books in Khasi Language, which is quite a different question.

Shri Dlosingh Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, I have said about the number of books that have been provided for the high schools and colleges. I did not say that this book is good and that book is not  good. But Sir, one point which I would like to point out here is that there are a number of reasons about books. Sir, it is for your information and for the information of the Government that I would like to quote one spelling from the one book. Sir, in that book the spelling for word 'love' is ieit, ieid, ieij which one is correct?

Mr. Speaker : Mr. Lyngdoh, I am not a linguistic expert but even then I will tell you that whether you like T or D it does not matter and no students will be punished for that.

Shri Dlosingh Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, most probably you are an examiner. Even then, Sir, for the interest of the students I would like to request the Government to give a proper spelling and proper text books. I also would like to suggest to the Government through you. Sir, that instead of providing so many books to the students, let us have only those suggested pieces in a few books for their text books. Sir, I think, it will be much better and it will also help the parents not to spend too much and huge amount for purchase of so much books. Because every year the parents will have to spend much for purchase of books for their children.

Mr. Speaker : Here it will be difficult for the Minister in charge to reply regarding the different Text Books Committees formed by the University. I will inform the hon. Member that recognition  of the books is recommended by such Committees except those very very good books like "Ki Sngi Barim U Hynniew Trep" and so on. But all the other books which have been recommended by such Committees are so selected by taking into consideration their literary value. Secondly, your suggestion is that we must select only those books which we find fit. If it is so, then you are punishing the authors and none of the authors will send their publication to the Government  and nobody will patronize it. In that case the author will not find any market for their publication. And perhaps the Minister-in-Charge of Education will not know about all the action taken. Here again, the complaint is for the night classes and not for the students reading in the day classes.

Shri Dlosingh Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, I think you have not deducted my time. So, I will not continue on this matter. Now I will leave it for the consideration and wisdom of the Government, and as I know that both the Education Minister are professors.

Mr. Speaker : Sir, I now come to my third point the water shed of merits and demerits of these Departments i.e., about the inspecting staff. Sir, we understand that the present inspecting staff is very small and in order to do their inspection work, it takes much longer time for them to do statistical works, make statements, and other file works. Therefore, Sir, I would like to request the Government, through you, to consider increasing the number of inspecting staff in the district level and also in the State officers, specially in this particular district of  Khasi Hills have not mush to do their work because they also have to do their statistical work which is not actually their duty. Moreover, Sir, they have to make  different statements for giving grants, suggestions and so on and so forth for the different schools. Besides this, I may mention here for your information that besides the inspecting staff specially the D.I. of Schools has been entrusted with some other works. Sir, his duty is to supervise the inspection made by his subordinates. But with such kind of additional duty, I doubt whether he will be able to do his work justly. Besides that Sir, there is no telephone connection in his office. So he cannot contact the superior officers or the staff of the Department  for doing his duty faithfully. Moreover, Sir, the location of the office is not so very convenient. So I would like to suggest to the Government that for the interest of the people in general and for the interest of the students in particular that the supervision of schools, namely, L.P. and M.E. Schools should be directly taken up by the present Government. Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not know whether it is right or wrong, but I was informed that since our Ministers are very effective and young and they have done much tour within the State and due to this constant tour, the duty of some officers has been misused, because during the tour of the Ministers they will have to attend to their Ministers.

Shri P.G. Marbaniang, (Minister of State Education) : Mr. Speaker Sir, when we will visit schools, generally we do not take our staff with us.

Mr. Speaker : Yes, you have to take your staff. But not to increase the number.

Shri Dlosingh Lyngdoh : But Mr. Speaker Sir, I do not say the hon. Minister should go on tour but let the inspection staff be increased so that the inspection can be more effective. Now I would like just to point out one point raised by the hon. Member, Shri S.D. Khongwir from Mawlai. He said that a Government College at Mawlai should be established. But Sir, I think with the increase of bridges on the Umkhrah river, Mawlai has been nearer to the town. And secondly, at present the number of High Schools at Mawlai is only two; and I do not know, Sir, if we will adopt this policy the number of High Schools are more in my constituency. If so, I may also demand some more colleges in my constituency at Umroi.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are six High Schools at Mawlai.

Shri Dlosingh Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker Sir, with these few words, I oppose the cut motion.

Shri Upstar Kharbuli : I rise to support this cut motion and in doing so, I would like to point out some difficulties or for that matter, let me say something which I feel is because of the negligence on the part of the Government to the welfare of our schools and college teachers. Sir, education is a very very important subject and I, while speaking in education, always remember one thing which I have come across when I read one essay which was written by a student who wrote something about Isaac Newton. That student wrote that he was lucky Sir, Isaac Newton was an educated man when he saw an apple falling down from the tree, had it been an ordinary person he would have simply picked up the apple and eaten it up and there would have been no 'law of gravity'. So in these few lines I feel the student has very aptly and very clearly defied the meaning of education. So I feel relieved here that our Minister in charge of Education are educated people and I think we need not elaborate further than what the hon. Members who have taken part in the discussion on this particular subject have advocated whether in support of this cut motion or in opposing it, it of no significance, but everybody expressed grace concern over this particular cut motion and according to me it is because they feel that there has been great negligence of the welfare of these noblest of noble people who have taken up teaching as their profession. Sir, when we look to the scales of the pay which our teachers are getting, whether in the Primary Schools, M.E. Schools, High Schools or for that matter in colleges and higher education in this particular State, it is really very very pathetic, I should say their pay is far less than what the 4th Grade employees are drawing in the Banks or in the Government offices. As a result, our teachers, I do not like to blame them, but most of them entered the teaching profession just to take helter from rain or they are making it something like a bus stop, and as soon as the bus comes, they would embark upon it and leave the station at the expense of our young generation whose minds are to be trained. Just the other day I came across the memorandum submitted by the Meghalaya College Teachers Association to the Minister, I could not help but sympathise with their cause. I think it is about time they stand rather than to keep them in suspense in their anxiety because such conditions will not help in their carrying out their profession sincerely especially with their inadequate pay. Most of the teachers whether in colleges or high Schools have to take resort to supplement their income by taking up private tutorial classes. The evil of this, I feel is that we are schedules tribes here in this particular State have got all sorts of encouragement and help even from the Central Ministry by ways of stipends or scholarships. The idea is that we are economically very unsound and most of us cannot afford to send our children to schools to get  proper education , from our schools and colleges and if again we have to send our children to the private coaching classes incurring extra expenditure or even have to pay more than double or treble  the usual fees that we have to pay in colleges and schools, I do not see any benefit of such scholarships. Here I do not want to blame the teachers who have to look after their belies and it is needless to say that they have to fill their stomachs, they cannot live up to their standard as their pay is too inadequate they have to resort to these things....

Mr. Speaker : Speaking of private tuitions, the real teachers whether they get good salary or not, the students will go to them and he will be forced to take tuitions, but even if the teachers with poor pay, when they are not good in teaching, even if they want they cannot get students.

Shri Upstar Kharbuli :  That is right Sir, but there is a limit. You cannot teach all day and night, it would be injurious to health. I think once the teacher gets a good pay, he would not insist on extra charges even if he wants to help the students. So what I am trying to highlight here is that extra burden goes to the parent of the students if they cannot depend entirely on the teachings from the regular classes in the schools and colleges. So I feel that it is high time and especially in view of the interest and seriousness taken by the hon. Member from both sides of the House that Government should definitely do something about it. But at least let it be informed to us what steps Government is going to take and particularly on the Memorandum which has been submitted to them by the Meghalaya College Teachers Association.

        Another point I would like to touch is about the plight of some of the school teachers of M. E. Schools. For that matter, I should say generally in Government schools, some of them, according to my information after having served for 15 to 20 years in such schools, still their service condition is not known, whether they are going to get the benefit of pension and other benefits. The most pitiable is the case of some of them who have had to retire after serving throughout their life in such schools without any gratitude or pension given to them. This also I think, is hampering very much the mental condition of most of our teachers in the schools. Unless their minds are kept at peace, I am afraid the ones who are to suffer would be our children going to these schools where the teachers cannot give due or proper attention to teaching. So with these few words, as I said at the beginning, I leave this  few words, as I said at the beginning, I leave this matter for the most sympathetic consideration to be given by our Minister concerned and with these few words I support this cut motion.

(Shri D.D. Lapang, rose to speak )

Mr. Speaker : I have called  out your name, but you were absent.

Shri P.N. Choudhury : Mr. Speaker Sir, as the time allowed to us is very limited, I do not like to elaborate all the point that I intend to refer to. I shall only make a few suggestions to the Government, through you, Sir, while supporting the cut motion. Mr. Speaker Sir, the question of granting University Grants Commissions pay scale to our college teachers was discussed on the floor of the House during the debate on the Governor's Address and in reply to that Address, the Chief Minister  pointed out certain difficulties-one of which was the reservation of the scheduled tribe and scheduled caste applicants. I am one with the Chief Minister that there should be adequate representation for these categories of people. But Sir, this is a matter to be thrashed out with the Centre. This should not stand on the way to granting this scale to the existing staff. These college teachers have not been given any revision of their scales for the last 10 years although the price index has gone very high. Sir, they do deserve special consideration in view of the long 10 years that they have to wait for revision of their scale of pay. My suggestion in this regard is that Government should offer them a suitable revised scale of pay immediately pending final decision of the issue of granting the University Grants Commission's Scale. That will go a long way to remove their grievances which I feel are very genuine. They surely deserve adequate increase of their  salary in view of the high living cost. Similarly, aided school and primary schools teachers should be given the revised pay scales as has been given to the Government school teachers. Our Government have accepted the Assam Pay Commission's Report. The Assam Government has implemented the revised scales in all the categories of teachers whether they are in Government schools or sided schools. So I suggest that the same policy should be adopted by our Government.

        Sir, regarding the building grants, there are Government recognised and aided schools. But the buildings in some schools, is in very dilapidated condition. Accommodation is insufficient and there is congestion in the classes. With the result that the schools suffer very badly. My suggestions in this regard is that building grants should be equitably distributed considering the needs of each and that every deserving school gets the grants and no one is left out. Similarly in case of library grants or grants for playgrounds, the same policy should be adopted by the Government. Every school needs a library and a playground. Every school therefore gets adequate grant and it should also be the Government policy to provide a playground for every for every schools or a number of schools that has been recognized or extended the deficit grants. The same principles should be followed in case of science laboratory of high schools and M.E. Schools, Sir, there are some M.E. schools which have only 3 teachers having 3 classes, there is no additional teachers in those schools but the volume of clerical work in the schools has so tremendously increased that it is difficult for the existing teachers to cope with the work load. Naturally if they are to devote to the office work, the classes will suffer. If they devote to the teaching profession the office work suffers. There are so many reports and returns that the schools are to furnish and volume of office work is on the increase. My suggestion in this regard is therefore that the schools that have been brought under the deficit system should be provided with the post of the clerk in the M.E. section so that office work and teaching of these schools may not suffer. Sir, I am one with the Member from Mylliem when he said that mushroom growth of schools should not be encouraged. But Sir, where there is need for a school and the public of the locality takes initiate to start a school to cater to the educational needs of that locality the Government should extend timely assistance to those schools so that  the people's enthusiasm does not fade away in the absences of the Government's timely assistance. Sir, the schools which have been granted permission by the Government to start higher classes should be given financial assistance and recognition. There are some schools which have been granted permission by  Government  to start higher classes but no financial assistance have been given. There are also other which have not been granted such permission. Sir, I feel that if there are schools which fulfill the condition laid down by the Government, the Government  should grant permission and extend provisional recognition to these schools and provide adequate grant to meet the expenses for paying the salaries of teachers. Sir, there are some schools which have been given permission to start higher classes, but those have not received adequate receiving grants from the Government, with the result that those schools are in great difficulty to pay the teachers with the result that qualified teachers do not stick to the schools. So Government  should consider the feasibility of granting adequate grants to those schools so that they can also survive and contribute their mite for spreading education. As soon as Government grants permission, I feel it is the moral obligation to see that the school prospers and survives. Sir, one more point I want to mention before I resume my seat, I will only touch the subject of sports and games in the State. Many schools have no teachers to instruct or impart training in respect of sports and games. Sports and games should be made compulsory in schools and every school should be provided with a physical instructor and  Government  should provide financial assistance for such staff. Sports and games occupy a very important place in our nation building and as such this should be encouraged from school stage. Our Government is of course giving importance to sports and games. My only request is that encouragement should be given to this particular subject in the school stage. So that our future stars can be discovered in school fields. Every school should be given adequate assistance for development of sports and games so that they can provide adequate facilities to their students for sports and games. With these few words, Sir, I support the cut motion.

Shri Maham Singh : Mr. Speaker Sir, in supporting the cut motion I just want to say a few words. In this connection, I feel that of all the development projects which the Government has undertaken or proposed  to undertake, highest priority should be given to agriculture and education. These two subjects deserve more attention because of various reasons. Through education alone it will be possible for us to produce person who can run our industries and modernize agriculture in the State. They can also build up new industries and it will not be  necessary for us to search for technical experts from elsewhere outside the State. With the income from these industries and agriculture will be able to construct our  roads, bridges and undertake various other projects with out seeking help from elsewhere. So, Mr. Speaker Sir,  I would say  that communication, and in this connection, I consider that advancement in the field of learning and increasing the production of agricultural produces is the highest service that can be rendered to the State and our people. Mr. Speaker Sir, a lot has been said yesterday, and I will not take more time in discussing he cut motion, but will only make a few observations and suggestions.

(At this stage the Speaker left the Chamber and the Deputy Speaker took the Chair)

        Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, yesterday the hon. Member from Mendipathar has stated that there has been a serious defect in the policy of the Government with regard to the course of study in the State. This is with regard to the number of years for qualifying a certain type of examination or examinations ; many changes have been made within a very short period of time and this has adversely affected education and the students in our State. In this connection, I would like to point out that the defect is not so much with the system introduced but we do not have proper teachers for the system introduced. Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, in this connection I would like to say that there is now a rapid progress in the study if literature, science and medicines and other spheres of learning from day to day almost we find that there is a new discovery. This is especially true of advanced countries which have made rapid stride and so we have to make earnest efforts to catch up with them. For this purpose we may, from time to time have to introduce new system, new methods of learning and teaching. But then we also have to see as to what is the best system, the best method of studies for our State and the people as a whole. We should scrutinise the system of study very thoroughly, other wise it will do more harm  than good to our people and the students especially. Sir, in this connection, I would like to give a proposal and it is for Government to examine and see if it is workable and also worth introducing. I would suggest that we should have a Commission, or a Committee or a body of whatever name you choose to call it. It should be of a permanent nature consisting of members of the most eminent educationists. They should from time to time suggest the best system of education. It should also be a consultative body in that the people can come to to it for consultations and at the same time it should give guidelines to the different schools and teachers of the best method, latest method and the most suitable system of study for our State. This I believe, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, for our State is very essential that we should have such type of Commission or Committee. Now, besides this, I would also suggest that yesterday, a reference has been made regarding the insecurity of the teachers especially the teachers of the lower primary schools. They are the lowest so far as wage earning is concerned in the whole State. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, these teachers in the lower primary schools as a matter of fact, are getting less than the Grade IV staff or the Cleaners appointed by the Government. Sir, more than this, it has been mentioned previously that their life becomes more insecure after retirement because they do not get the benefit of any pension. In this connection, I have said that education is so important that we must consider the pay structure of teachers so that we may be able to bring to this line the best people for the benefit of our students. Yesterday, it has been mentioned that it may be not possible to make rules, at least for the lower primary school teachers enabling them to get pension because they are not directly under the pay of the Government. In this connection I would say the Government actually are paying to the District Councils the pay of these lower primary school teachers I would make a suggestion that there should be a directive that rules should be framed introducing provident fund so that even  if they do not get the provident fund or gratuity or any grant of such nature. Let them not be insecure after retirement. Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, further I would like to say that recognition of schools and the distinction of private candidates from the regular candidates should be changed and modified. For this, we have so long been blindly following the system introduced by the Government of Assam. According to the present rule the students coming out of recognised schools are termed and classes as regular candidates whereas students coming out of schools which have been allowed to proceed upto high school, however good the candidates or that school may be in the result of the Board yet these candidates are classed as private . Now I would say that this system should be done away with. There should be no further distinction between the private and the regular candidates appearing from schools or between recognised and unrecognized high schools. Once a school is allowed to proceed to high school, then it should be considered as a recognised high schools and all the students sent up by  those schools for examinations, must be classes as regular and not private candidates because it we make such a classification then in that case, it will be a great handicap to the schools which have been allowed to proceed upto high schools. (bell rang).

        One minute more, Sir, and I will finish. Most of the students do not want to join unrecognized schools just because they have to appear as private candidates. Now, the distinction between the regular and private candidates should only be that all those students appearing from schools should be classed as regular candidates and only those appearing privately without attending any high school should be termed  as private candidates and have to pay extra fees. Since there is no more time Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I have only one thing to add and that is that we should welcome the idea of having vocational institutions in our State. Previously also I had already mentioned the need of setting up Medical, Agriculture, Engineering and also Veterinary Colleges as suggested by the hon. Member from Mylliem a few minutes ago. In  this connection, I would again Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, suggest to the Government, through you that is very important to have those colleges set up as early as possible in our State for the benefit of our people because to go to other places and study those courses, I feel many of our students cannot afford only a very few and actually, those coming from well to do families could afford to go to other places to take up those course as the course of their study. But for many others, it is not possible especially those who have got two sons or more for study. It will be quite impossible with the poor pay that they may be getting to send their children to other places for study in those courses. There are many other things, Sir, which I want to say on the subject, but since there is no more time, I have been able to put forward only a few suggestions to the Government, and I request that they may be considered.

*Shri Akramozaman : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, there was a lot of discussion on the affairs of the administration regarding the policy of education of the Government of Meghalaya. Here I wish to bring out one point which is categorically connected with the Madrassa education. Sir, we have adopted the education rules of the Assam Government for the administration of education in our State. I believe in this respect, there is little amendment which we could do also. In the rules it has been found that Madrassa and this matter was also  taken up by me because of the representation by the people of Baitbari in so far as Madrassa Education is concerned, it was subsequently found that in Shillong, Mahendraganj and some other places where Madrassa education is prevailing, this question is very much pertinent. However, I do not want to go into details. I would like to mention only that there was a lot of correspondences and petition telegrams to the D.P.I and the Secretary of Education and also. I have some correspondences even with the then hon. Minister of Education who is now Minister in charge of Transport and who is helping the education at that period  of time. He was kind enough to have discussion with me about the  affairs of Baitbari Madrassa in particular, where  a Board of Madrassa Education was constituted almost as that of the Board of Secondary Education in the absence of which there must be personnel to look into the matter and also the Managing Committee of every institution not to speak of any Madrassa. But  an institution should be composed of such persons who have the interest and the knowledge. This matter was brought not from my initiation but from the initiation so far as I can remember, of the Minister in charge of Education who was kind to enough to know from me. When I told him he had replied : "Yes, I shall take action". I am very glad to inform the House that his action was very  prompt. The then D.P.I. was also there and a letter was sent to me to be present during the enquiry. But unfortunately, at that period of time, I was out on tour in connection with some other committee. Later on when I returned I enquired from the D.P.I. as to what were his finding and he told me that the representation  was correct. He also said "I have taken action on the 18th November and I have directed the Inspector of Schools to do accordingly". That was on the 18th November, 1974. Now 1974 has passed away, then 1975and then 1976. But one interesting thing is this. When order is passed I also enquired after some time and learnt that the previous D.P.I. had already left on retirement and also learned that he would give another thing. Well, Sir, officers may change I believe but the order should continue.  But here in this respect the decision which is already taken at the highest level with regard to the form of education has not been implemented at the district. Sir, the other day I had stated while taking part in the general discussion, that there should be a lot of improvement that would be required to be done right at the grass root of the administration. Here I would categorically say and request the Government and the Ministers to go into the details of the case connected with the Bhaitbhari Madrassa and find out a solution so that this Madrassa will not suffer. With these few words Sir, I believe the Government will take prompt  action by going through the records. I do not wish to narrate the records as time does not permit. But I have  to say here that only the persons who have the interest and the qualifications should be in charge of the administration. This is my humble request and I do not doubt that Madrassa education will not suffer any more.

*Shri D.D. Lapang : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, while associating with this discussion I would like to bring forward a few points. I would like to say that the Government is very much aware of the fact that there is much room for improvement of the educational system in the Meghalaya. The Government having considered the points over any mission of Meghalaya and if my knowledge does not fail me about 8 or 9 months ago this Commission came into existence. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, it is really high time and an opportune moment to voice our suggestions that some point be considered by the Government when Commission will submit its report. It will have to give sufficient time for us to go into the pros and cons of the things so that these can be put up to the machinery of education to remove the discrepancies and to evolve a desirable system as expressed by the hon. Members in the House.

        Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, in regard to the pay of the teachers I know that there is really something which has to be considered  with all concern and seriousness. As we know the present pay of the teachers is very much below the pay standard given to other categories of Government employees. Now the pay of the L.D. Assistant who is only a matriculate or P.U. is Rs.325 whereas that of a private school teachers is Rs.305. Further Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, a Typist who is a matriculate  gets Rs.280 and that of a Head Chowkidar Rs.235 approximately whereas a graduate teacher is aided schools gets only Rs.150. Talking about the responsibility charged upon the teachers I also fall in line with the hon. Members when he stated that the responsibility of a teacher is greater because they are not dealing in files but with human beings ; they have to shape the future of our children. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I would suggest to the Government to look into this matter and when the report comes from the Education Commission this point will also have to be taken into consideration. In so far as the scholarships are concerned, the rates given are those which were  prevailing since the time of the British Government. If my knowledge is correct, they paid only Rs.5 to the L.P. school scholars. So this is really far below the standard of living of today. I would suggest that the minimum should be Rs.50 or more to the L.P. School scholars and Rs.75 to the M.E. School scholars. This is a pitiable thing.

        Now, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, the present system is really a system, by which we can produce from our institutions only students who are white collared job seekers. They are not willing to go to interior. These white collar job seekers do really have some sort of a motive and  we must say that they have a bias in education for which they would not like to go to the interior. They would like to stick only to towns and offices. So there must be a psychological approach to be extended to such students so that after completion of their education, they could be  sent to the interior and that they could be weaned away from town mindedness. This is the only way we can make improvement in Meghalaya so that we can brighten our State. I would also suggest that subjects like industries, agriculture, etc., should be introduced in schools.

         I am glad to know that one jeep has been allotted to the D.I of school and although a telephone was sanctioned they have not been able to connect it. So it is very much gratifying to note that there is an improvement in the staffing pattern in his office and that they would do away with the system of the British regime. There should be expansion of staff when there is expansion of works by leaps and bounds. So I would request the Government to look into this matter. Before I resume my seat, I will dwell a little on Basic Education which was brought forward by our late Mahatma Gandhi. The  whole ideology of this education is to make the students and the people know how to learn about the traditional qualities or usage of the people in India. The actual meaning of basic education is-they will have to teach weaving, spinning, cooking, etc., in the school. But the present progress of this basic education is without teaching the above trades. They are more or less inclined towards general education. So, it has no meaning  and it is given a wrong interpretation. So the meaning of basic education is not there. I request the Government to please consider this by taking this fact into consideration is at all it is necessary to have basic education. This is very necessary otherwise we may not have anymore basic education but only general education. But if it is to be there, then I suggest that proper management of this school regarding the above trades should also be there. I think only then this type of education will be improved. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, having seen that the Government is very keen about the improvement of education in the State and that they have gone to the extent of implementing the constitution of the Educational Commission I oppose the cut motion. Having a strong and firm belief and faith, I hope that the Government will really bring a new life to this type of education because as it is now, we know that education is the crying need of the day.

Prof A. Warjri : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I stand to oppose the cut motion. Many Members who have spoken before me have spoken about improvement of education. And, I believe that all of us like to see that our educational system should be in a from quite different from what we have been experiencing till today. I believe that if any State or Community is to progress, education is a must. If we consider and ponder over a little we will find that without education we cannot make real progress. Even from the Government of the State side or any Department side, without education it would be impossible to improve or progress. For example take industries we will see that we need now a days trained artisans. And these trained artisans cannot come unless they have education. Now a days with scientific method in agriculture- unless education is introduced even to the remotest corner of our State, agriculture will not prosper according to the scientific need of the time. So, education is the foundation of all progress and development. Anyway, I am a bit unhappy to know that in the preparation of the budget of our State and as a matter of fact in the preparation of the budget of most States in India and even the Central Government, education has not been given a top priority. Of course roads should be built. Agriculture is to develop and Industries are to grow. But all these development can be achieved only when people will understand the meaning of the progress and development. And this can be done only through education. Otherwise, we will not develop. I stand here, Mr. Deputy Speaker  Sir, not to criticise the Government for its policy of education. Actually I think this is in the last years budget and it is too late to criticize on the policy of the Government. I vehemently oppose the cut motion in the sense that thus is a policy cut which if it succeeds will throw the whole educational administration into conclusion. Of course, I know that they will not succeed  and we hope that the hon. Member will withdraw the cut motion. I am not happy with the statement made by the Mover of the cut motion when he said that the standard of education in the old days was much better than the standard of education of today. I came across quite a good number of people  saying that a boy of Class IV during the time Entrance Examination is a better than a boy of Class VI of today I think this is untrue. A boy of Class VI of today has more knowledge than a boy of Class IV of those days. Actually, a boy of Class VI of those days cannot be compared to a boy of Class VI of today. In short the standard of education of today is much better than the standard of education of those old days. So, I do not agree with him that the standard of education today has gone down. This is not so. Because today, the students have more difficult books than the students of old days and the books of today are better than the books of old days. Nowadays there is the progress of science and there are more writers even in the regional languages and therefore, more books are being produced and they are also better than those of the old  days. So, I think this statement is made just to criticize and they are not for the sake of improving the educational system of the State.

        Speaking on primary education the Member from Mawlai had said that the State has a responsibility for running the primary education. I wonder what is the meaning of this. As far as the States responsibility and duties are concerned I think the State only allots money to the District Councils and the running of these Schools is being done by the District Councils themselves. So, the State is not the one which is responsible for running primary education. We have entrusted into the District Council to run primary education and unless we change the pattern, as suggested by the hon. Speaker yesterday that is, unless we can change the Sixth Schedule, primary education remains a District Councils subjects excepting a few in the town and therefore it is not right to blame the Government whatever happens in the running of the District Councils primary schools. Again he said by pointing out examples that primary school 'A' has got three teachers and primary school 'B' has got only one teachers. But whose responsibility is it? It is not the responsibility of the State Government. It is the District Councils which is responsible for the running of primary education and to sanction teachers from a particular primary schools. Then for improving primary education he suggested that the Government should take some steps. But Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I say that suggestion to be  given should not be to the State Government but should be to the District Councils for the improvement of primary education. It would be rather correct to give suggestions that the State Government should move for changing the Sixth Schedule and primary education should be taken over by the State Government. But instead by blaming the Government for mal-administration of primary schools, I feel just like blaming the father who has given plenty of money to his prodigal son who has squandered away that money, got drunk and misutilized it. Likewise we cannot blame the Government for mal-administration in the primary schools. Now, Mr. D.N. Joshi, the hon. Member from Cantonment has made a good suggestion, viz. introduction of science oriented studies in schools even in the primary schools (Bell rang).

How many minutes will I get?

Mr. Deputy Speaker : You will get one minute more.

Prof A. Warjri : I want at least 25 minutes.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : But the time has been allotted by the hon. Speaker himself .

Prof A. Warjri : Anyway, he has suggested that the schools should be provided with science laboratory but what I wonder is why the hon. Member has at all supported the cut motion. To introduce all these things more money will be necessary, yet he had supported the cut motion down to everything to Rupee 1. Like a doctor- instead of prescribing tonic and better food for the patient not to take even the food he used to take. Therefore, I would suggest that if money is available more fund should be placed at the disposal of the Education Department for introducing those various programmes as suggested by the hon. Member. I suggest that the Minister in charge of Education  should invite in this regard the National Council of Scientific Research and Training to organise the National Science Exhibition for children at Shillong, Jowai and Tura as it was held in Delhi to which no child was sent to represent our eastern States. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, since there is no time I resume my seat.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : Mr. Raisen  Mawsor.

*Shri Raisen Mawsor : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, in supporting the cut motion I would like to say that there are some M.E. Schools in my area which have received adhoc grant. Sir, there are some schools which have received Rs.500 per month, some of them have received Rs.400, whereas others received at the rate of Rs.300 and Rs.200. Now Sir, you will kindly appreciate that at least 3 or 4 teachers are absolutely necessary to run an M.E. School and, as such it becomes  almost impossible for a Managing Committee to run a school with ad hoc grant of Rs.300 per month. Suppose the headmaster takes Rs.200 per month then the rest will hardly get Rs.20 or so out of that adhoc grant. Sir, there are some schools which have received Rs.600 per month as adhoc grant. Sir, as you know in rural areas whenever a school is started there will be a public meeting and in that meeting people from adjoining villages will come and take a resolution to give contribution at least 50 rupees per month or 100 rupees or say 2 Rupees per family. Generally what happens in those areas is that first year if the contribution is collected to the tune of Rs.3000 the next year it will come down to Rs.1000 and then next year it may come to nil. Obviously without contribution these schools have to be closed down after some time. Therefore I would request the Government to consider atleast Rs.700 or Rs.800 per month as adhoc grants to those schools. Now there is one in my village which the Education Minister had visited during the bye election. The Managing Committee requested the Government to take over the school by the Government. Therefore, the Deputy Inspector of Schools from Nongstoin had inspected that school and asked the Managing Committee of the School to hand over that school and there was a agreement with the land owners to give land for that school and about 5 acres of land were given to that school or something like that. But uptil now, no action has been taken. So I would request the Government, especially the Minister, who himself had visited that schools during the last election and had see everything for that school, to kindly take early steps to improve that school.

        Then another thing Sir, that is with regard to grants given by the Government. Sir, in may areas there are many schools like the one at Aradongnga, Malangkona and Mawthengkut which are still running. But I have seen the Government give a different grants for each school and each one of them received different grants for each school and each one of them received different grants from the Government. So, here I request the Government that once they give grant they should see that it is adequately given in a uniform manner to all schools. Suppose if they give Rs.1,000 for one such schools they should give the same amount of grant for all. They should not give different amounts, say for one school Rs.1,000 and for another Rs.2,000 and so on and so forth. Therefore, I would sincerely request the Government to kindly look into the matter carefully. With these few words, Sir, I resume my seat.

Shri Edward Kurbah : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the cut motion moved by hon. Member from Mawkyrwat. I have already heard so much talk on this subject and I have noting more to say, but only a few observations to make. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, during the course of my tour here and there within the interior of the State, I have seen that there are so many schools, some of which belong to the Government and some to the private organisations and Missions concerned. If we are seriously concerned with those schools, especially those belonging to the Government, we will find that there is something lacking in their administration. They are more congested and not in good shape and it appears that nobody takes proper care in running them up to the mark. For instance, one M.E. School at Tataw, its building is standing in a dilapidated condition and many parts need to be repaired and as far as I came to know, in that schools there is no uniformity in running it by the authority concerned. As a result the number of students also decrease from year to year. Last year I happened to be in that school during the time of announcement of the result of the last final examination and I have heard the number of students came down to 40 only. So could you imagine Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that in such a M.E. School where it is expected that the enrolment of students would go up but there are only 40 students in all? Could you imagine that in Classes IV, V and VI, how many students would be reading in each class out of these 40 students. Can you divide how many of them belong to each class? Then Sir, another School at Mawlaiteng which was also provincialise last year or the year before. But then there is no proper management of that schools. Most probably it appears they do not have sufficient grant to request the Government to reconsider the matter seriously and take appropriate steps to improve that school and not to treat it like a privately owned, but as its own school and proper maintenance and care should be given by the Government for that school.

       Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I come to another point regarding the primary schools in the rural areas. We know in the rural area there are may primary schools and so many M.E. Schools and even High Schools also, but we know that those people in the rural areas especially the weaker sections do not know how to approach the Government for grants. If they were at all to approach the Government they have to go through the Blocks. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, last year I came to know that there was some allotment of grants provided for the schools through the Blocks. But this year I do not know what is the intention of the Government because as far as I learn till yesterday when I have enquired from the different Blocks, they have not yet received any provision of grants to be given to school in the rural areas. This grant may come either through General Education Department or through Social Education Department to the Blocks. So I just want to get a clarification why last year we got this grant and why this year we are not getting it.

 Mr. Deputy Speaker : What grant do you mean as there are many grants?

Shri Edward Kurbah : I mean grant for maintenance of the schools. It is maintenance grant. Then another point Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I would like to bring to the notice of this House is the subject matter of running or starting schools. Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I think we have first to see the feasibility or facilities which are the main factors for deciding whether a school is to be opened or not. We have to see whether it is feasible to open any schools in any place or whether there are any facilities warranting the establishment of such schools. There are schools in which they do not have any facilities in which students do not have sufficient playground, sufficient place to relax themselves during off periods, sufficient tools and equipments and so on and so forth. Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, in this regard I would like to point some defects of the Government. Here I would like to suggest that whenever the Government recognizes any school, they should see that the feasibility report available at their  disposal will be looked after carefully. Sometimes there are schools recognized by the Government where they have no playgrounds at all and the school is also very small and congested. Therefore, I would like to suggest to the Government that before they come to decision finally, they should look into this matter properly. Sir, as the time is very limited, I again would like to request the Government that the Government should give necessary advice and instructions for opening of such schools so that the people will be satisfied, and with these few words, I support the cut motion.

Shri P.G. Marbaniang, (Minister of State Education) : Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I am thankful to all the hon. Members who have participated in the discussion for and against the cut motion. As there are 19 of them who  have taken part in the discussions, it will be difficult on my part in the discussions, it will be difficult on my part to name each and every member in my reply. However most of the points they have raised are more or less similar to one another. Therefore, I shall try to be as brief as possible in my reply. Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I have noted down each and every point, suggestion and remark given by all the hon. Members. Sir, the Speaker has rightly remarked that most of the hon. Members at this House had at one time been themselves teachers. As teachers they know that education is the apprenticeship of life. Sir, the Government is fully aware of all these things. Education begins with life. The mover of the cut motion in his discussion had appreciated the achievements of the Government and he has also given  many suggestions for improvement  of education. Sir, before I touch on the different remarks and suggestions given by the hon. Members I would first of all like to say that it is true we are still continuing to follow Assam Government Rules and Regulations in the Department. However, whenever necessary, changes are made on an ad hoc basis, because we feel that before any drastic  change is made we should have detailed examination of the whole structure and pattern of our educational system. This is why we have constituted the Education  Commission. The hon. Members as responsible Members, may please submit their views to the Commission. It is here that we can have a change of structure of our policy on education. The department has for the information of the hon. Members examined the different legislations  adopted by different States in India and with the report of the Education Commission, I am sure, we will be able  to legislate here in Meghalaya also, about how  to run and manage the different schools in the State. Sir, for qualitative improvement education ** Government has given assurance to improve the quality of teaching and at the same time  improve the economic conditions of our teachers. The case of the deficit school teachers is under consideration and the case of the aided school teachers is yet to be examined. The case of college teachers is receiving special attention because of the recommendation of the Government of India of the U.G.C. pay scale with 80 percent central assistance. Sir, all these cases are in the final stage of consideration.

        The human being is not any proper sense, a human being till he is educated. That is why we are seriously examining the steps necessary to improve education in all respects and in this way, we cannot be hasty. May I request all the hon. Members to submit their suggestions, as to how to bring about a change in the policy of the Government when they give their suggestions to the Education Committee. Sir, politic of friendship with inspecting staff is not a criteria for giving grants. Wherever possible, many of the schools inspection  should be done by officers of the Department. But perhaps, the  Ministers' visit to such schools is also most essential. Sir, Ministers are servants of the people and the difficulties of the people are the difficulties of the Ministers. We do not believe in the plea of the touts because before we accord the grants, we consult the inspecting staff.

        Sir, financial resources being limited, schools which are financially weaker and which are in need of help receive social attention. Education is by and large a private enterprise. The community is expected to raise sufficient funds and resources to maintain the schools required by the community, and the Government can only assist and lend a hand, because due to shortage of funds, Government is limited in its intentions to nationalize education.

        Sir, Meghalaya  as a whole is short of trained and specialised man power and this is also the case with my Department. We are at present training and grooming young officers at all levels to man the posts in the Department. This is a time consuming process. Meghalaya being very young, it has not been possible to find suitable people at all levels in the Departments. The case of the D.P.I. is pertinent as Government have tried with experienced educationalists and the result was not encouraging because people on contract are not very keen on the jobs, and as such Government has to resort to Civil Servants from the I.A.S. cadre. This is nothing new in the country. Some of the effective D.P.Is in the country belonged to this cadre. Sir, much has been criticized on the shortage of inspecting staff. This I agree. But here again, it is a chronic problem,. because it takes times to train and recruit new ones to hold the posts. At times we have to give double promotion.

        Sir, I am happy to tell the hon. Members that under the 20-Point Economic  Programme, specific action has been taken for the creation of books banks and supply of essential commodities to the hostels. To help our Government in all its efforts, it is essential that much more central assistance should come forward so that the Government can go ahead in helping the students in the different academic pursuit of education. I agree Sir, that before we reach the standard of higher  education, one must logically think of standards in lower education. As water finds its own levels, so education also surely finds its own level. Certain measures have to be taken to achieve higher standards and the State has its role to play and is being played and progress is noticed. Sir, in the previous years, in order to impart seminar to our teachers, we have decided, say like last year, that we should take up English teacher staff and  some experts from the Central Institute of English and Foreign Languages Institute. They have come to help the Government and we have conducted these seminars in Jowai and Shillong, Mairang, Cherrapunjee and Tura. This year, we intend to emphasise on science teaching.

        Sir, our Government believes that teachers' training is important and a properly trained teachers with the proper motivation is an asset to the State. Education as a subject should not be only a theory and it should be taught with a view to equipping the students to be a citizen morally and academically to be useful to the nation.

        Sir, the impression that considerable political pressures are exercised in matters of teaching standard of education, recruitment and recognition are not borne out by facts in our State.

        Sir, much has been spoken about basic education. Basic education is a special type of education on experimental basis  which aimed at imparting instructions through basic craft, through real life and to co-ordinate school life which means education for life and to co-ordinate  school life which means education for life and through life. Basic school, though an existence for more than 20 years, is still being treated as on temporary basis. We are examining to make all posts. At present we may (at this stage the Speaker occupied the Chair) as many as 2,385 primary schools in the State including junior basic schools. Out of the total number of primary schools, 2 are Government primary schools located in the Shillong Municipality area and the rest are the primary schools managed by the District Council and private or local bodies , the maintenance of which depends on the grant in aid from the Government. According to the policy of the Government of India, the appointment of teachers in the primary schools should be at the ration of 40:1 students/teachers. This norm is not workable in our State as it was found that no real teaching or no justice could be done by a teacher to the students in classes having more than 25 children. Accordingly, the Department worked out a scheme on the ration 25:1 student/teacher and this is presented in our 5th Plan to the Government of India. 

        Mr. Speaker Sir, we have also found our from experience that a single teacher school is not at all functioning satisfactorily. It is, therefore proposed to do away with such single teachers schools and at least more than one teacher should be placed in a small schools. According to records available, that is the time when the L.P. Schools were transferred, to District Council, there were in Garo Hills and Khasi Hills and Jaintia Hills 551 L.P. Schools  is against 2,385 today. The management of L.P. Schools is the primary responsibility of the District Council. According to the terms of agreement which the management of the L.P. Schools was transferred to the District Council, the District Council  are also to assume their responsibility of future expansion after the year 1961-62, Government will be responsible for maintenance at the level 1961-62. However, Government has always sanctioned expansion programme and maintenance of the years. So far Government have not been able to obtain information as to the number of teachers maintained by the District Council  themselves from their own funds. The entire question of maintenance of teachers in the Primary Schools has, therefore, to be rationalized and reviewed according to the terms and conditions under which the management of Primary Schools was transferred to the District Council. This has become necessary as in spite of the fact that Government has sanctioned the maintenance grants for appointment of teachers in advance during the current year, Government is still receiving complaints that teachers are not paid in time.

        Sir, recognition of High Schools is the function of the Board of School Education. Departmental recognition is sometimes given in rare cases. Unless a new legislation is there banning private enterprise in setting up new schools, Government cannot do anything to discourage such ventures or to stop rival schools coming up.

        On scholarships, these are based on the recommendations of the Inspector of Schools. Deputy Inspector and Headmasters. However, the suggestions given by the hon. Members are noted down and we shall see what we can do.

        Sir, the Department has not so far received any demand from the public for opening of a College at Mawlai. At the moment, Government have no proposals to open any Government College in any locality, but steps were and are being taken to strengthen the existing private Colleges.

Mr. Speaker : I think Mawlai is the third biggest town in Meghalaya but the question is that it is very near to Shillong.

Shri P.G. Marbaniang, (Minister  of State Education) : Sir, with the opening of the Seng Khasi College which is very close to Mawlai and the existence of the Synod College in Jaiaw would reduce to a great extent the problem of Mawlai people to come up to Laitumkhrah for College education.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : And also with the construction of bridges (laughter)

Shri P.G. Marbaniang, (Minister of State Education) : Mr. Speaker Sir, whenever an opportune moment comes and whenever funds permit, we shall see what we can do. I am happy to say that from the 23rd September, 1971, the  Government had accorded recognition to diplomas issue by Don Bosco  Technical School, Shillong. Further, the  Director of Training and Secretary, Ministry of Labour, had accorded to the trainees of the Don Bosco Technical School to appear in the All India Trade Test pending the final affiliation subject to the requirement in the standard of training in the trades of (1) cutting and tailoring, (2) printing and (3) carpentry.

Mr. Speaker : May I know from the hon. Minister because the hon. Member yesterday was charged the Government that the Public Service Commission does not recognise the diplomas issued by the Don Bosco Technical School. I think it is high time also that the Government School come forward to place the report of the Public Service Commission so that members will understand the real position regarding employment position within the State.

Shri P.G. Marbaniang, (Minister  of State Education) : Yes Sir. All suggestions of the hon. Members are noted down and before I resume my seat I would remind the Members that the best school of discipline is home. Our children are in school for 4 or 5 hours and the rest of the time they are with us.

Shri Maham Singh : But in the schools also, they are to learn discipline.

Shri P.G. Marbaniang, (Minister  of State Education) : Therefore, Sir, I have decided in future, all schools receiving grants from the Government must hand over the progress reports of the child to the parents or to the responsible member of the family and not that the parents or members of families may meet the teachers only to curse him when the child fails in the final examination. Sir, with the cooperation of the Members, I am sure we will be able to build education, a model education, in Meghalaya. May, I request the Member to withdraw the cut motions?

Mr. Speaker : There is one point and I hope the Minister will not mind and that is the expunction of the words "my Government" from your speech which may be due to slip of tongue which you should not have uttered.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh : Mr. Speaker Sir, I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : Has the cut hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion?

(Voices : Yes, yes)

        The cut motion is with the leave of the House, withdrawn.

        The other cut motion, excepting one, have already been discussed. I do not know whether Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh will move his cut motion.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh : I am not moving.

Mr. Speaker : What about Mr. Khongwir? You have got 2 cut motions in your name. Will you move them?

Shri S.D. Khongwir : I have already spoken on this.

Mr. Speaker : The fifth one is in the name of Mr. Francis K. Mawlot. But he is absent. So the cut motion is deemed to have been withdrawn. Cut motions Nos.6 and 7 have already been discussed. So let me put the main question before the House. the question is that  an amount of Rs.5,18,99,000 be granted  to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "277-Education"

(The motion was adopted and demand passed)

        Minister in charge of Education to move grant No.32.

Shri S.K. Marak, (Minister Education, Medical) : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.1,50,000.00 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head "277-Education, 280-Medical etc"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion I will put the question before the House. The question is that that an amount of Rs.1,50,000.00 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head "277-Education, 280-Medical etc"

(The motion was carried and demand passed)

        Now Minister in charge of Education to move Grant No.33.

Shri Sanford K. Marak, (Minister, Education, Medical) : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.6,35,500.00 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head "278-Art and Culture"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. I have received one cut motion  which stands in the name of Shri S.D. Khongwir. Mr. Khongwir to move.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Mr. Speaker Sir, I will not move.

Mr. Speaker : Since the hon. Member would not move, I will put the question before the House. The question is that that an amount of Rs.6,35,500.00 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head "278-Art and Culture"

(The motion was carried and demand passed )

        Now Minister in charge of Education to move Grant No.34.

Shri Sanford K. Marak, (Minister, Education, Medical) : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.2,24,000.00 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head "279-Scientific Services and Research".

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion I will put the question before the House. The question is that that an amount of Rs.2,24,00 0.00 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head "279-Scientific Services and Research".

(The motion was carried and demand passed)

        Now Minister in charge of Medical to move Grant No.35.

Shri Sandford K. Marak, (Minister, Education, Medical) : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor , I beg to move that an amount of Rs1,25,75,000.00 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head "280 Medical"

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved and I have received as many as five cut motions is in the name of Mr. H. Enowell Pohshna. Mr. Pohshna to move.

Shri H.E. Pohshna : Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg to move that an amount of Rs1,25,75,000.00 under Grant No.35, Major Head " 280-Medical" at page 219-256 of the Budget be reduced  to Re.1/- i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs.1,25,75,000.00 do stand reduced at Re.1.00

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now you can initiate the discussion.

Shri H.E. Pohshna : Mr. Speaker Sir, while moving this cut motion, I have a very few words to speak on a very very important point, and that is the policy of the Government in so far as hospital and dispensaries buildings are concerned. With regard to the construction and repairs of dispensary buildings, the Government  appears to be indifferent. Why I say like that. Of course, I do not know what is the case of other parts of the State, but in Jaintia Hills I have come across so many dispensary buildings which are in a very dilapidated condition. Just the other day I have spoken about Nongtalang Hospital and I need not repeat it any more. But my only hope is that the Minister in charge will be kind enough to make enquiries as to whether this hospital is functioning or not. Also whether it is a fact that it is functioning in another building and at the same time whether the walls are cracked and the fences have collapsed although the walls and fences have been constructed only in this  financial year. Also he is requested to see to other hospitals like Padu, Pdienshkap, Jarain, Pamrapaithlu are also in the same dilapidated condition.

        Now, about doctors. It is a fact that there are no doctors posted to these dispensaries. However I will cite an instance where a doctor was appointed but had to go  back due to the uninhabitable condition of the buildings. Therefore, Sir, this is not a matter that we should treat lightly but we should go into  it thoroughly. Consider ourselves here; both the Ministers and the MLAs. We come here well dressed and this is quite the opposite of the condition of the hospitals and dispensary buildings. So the question is, how can these buildings be in such a condition. There are also instances where even the main portion of the buildings of the hospitals and dispensaries has collapsed, and you will find that in many dispensaries even the chowkidar appointed will not be able to stay in the quarter allotted to him.

        We have always been complaining about the lack of doctors in the rural areas and an attempt was made by the Government to have our young men and women trained in the Medical Colleges. Now we are  getting doctors but the buildings are now in a bad state. I will cite another instance. For a particular dispensary a doctor was appointed three times. I have also spoken to the Director of Health Services in this particular case. The last time he told me that now he has got a doctor who is willing to serve in the rural areas. So this doctor was appointed for this dispensary, but I regret to say that he has to return as the building is not fit for use. Therefore, Mr. Speaker Sir, I request the hon. Members to be aware of the importance of this matter. I know and we all know that our Chief Minister has declared time and again that one of the greatest battles we have to fight is the battle against diseases. But how can we face this battle with such wretched dispensaries and buildings. With these few words I move my cut motion.

*Shri D.N. Joshi : Mr. Speaker Sir, while supporting this cut motion, I have certain observations to make. My friend who has just spoken had said that we cannot expect to remove diseases from the State with diseased buildings. Rather they should be good and healthy buildings worth the name.

        Sir, coming to medical education in our State, I have to say that proper facilities and scope for further study of medicine have not been created in our State. However, it appears to me that our Government is very conscious that students coming our of Medical Colleges are provided with jobs. Therefore, there should be a plan that such number of students would be allowed to pursue this particular science ; then our Government will not face any difficulty in giving them jobs when they come out of the college. But Sir, we should not be concerned only with giving them employment. We should also be very much concerned with the students aptitude to study, the special characteristics of the students to pursue this particular line of study and how they qualify themselves. All these characteristics are present here  and so we should create a scope for our students. And since ours is a new State, we still have not got a Medical College up till now. A Medical College is a dire necessity but it is not yet established here. I want that a Medical College should be established here but pending that, scope should be created to find out in consultation with other sister States in the country, in consultation with the Government of India so that the Students who are desirous of pursuing medical study, get seats in the Medical Colleges of the country. The number of seats available should be fair so that our aspirants  should have a chance to study. Only this year, that is 1975-76, Sir, I had the occasion to point out here in my discussion on the budget speech that a particular student was rejected a seat in the Orissa Medical College because the diploma or the degree of the qualifications obtained from this N.E.H.U are not recognised by other States. So if it is not recognised by other States, our Government should have made certain approach in such a manner that our Students get seats in some other colleges so that they could have pursued in that particular science. Now much against this will, that particular student is made to pursue in the general science subject where I am afraid he will not be able to do very well because his desire and aptitude were for medical studies. Year before, last also one student had to come back to our own college here after he is being selected and went there incurring a huge expenditure and waste of time. Subsequently and eventually, he had to come back  to our own State for his Master Degree Course instead of medical course. This is very unfortunate Sir.

 Mr. Speaker : This is also very unfortunate things since he is still having science in our University.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Of course Sir, that would have been very unfortunate had there been a desire, aptitude and characteristics on the part of the student to pursue in that particular branch of science. But what he is pursuing  is much against his will because he has not given that option for medical studies and on good reason, that facility was not given to him. Therefore, the Government must take keen interest that the student should not be deprived of the option to exercise his talents in the line as he has chosen. Rather they should help him to pursue in that option in future. Sir, in this connection, many of our friends here from both sides, have expressed the desire that there should be a medical college here in our State and an agricultural college which is not covered by this subject. Many have the desire and I take this opportunity to urge upon this Government through you, Sir that they should look into and try at least to establish a nucleus of medical college here right from this year, so that in the very near future, we can have a medical college and the aspirations of the students will be fulfilled. Pending that, I have already stated and urged upon this Government that more seats in the different medical colleges of the country should be made available so that more and more students could come and get medical education. As per statement of the Government it has been observed that there was acute dearth of doctors in the dispensaries and hospitals especially in the rural areas. So Sir, when we could afford to get more seats or set up our own medical college , the dearth of doctors in our hospitals and dispensaries in the rural areas will not be there in future. It will be filled up. The more doctors we get, the more the dispensaries will run effectively, more hospitals will run effectively thereby, deserving pupils in our State get more attention. With these few words, Sir, I support the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : Will the Minister in charge of Health reply.

Shri S.K. Marak, (Minister Health)  : Mr. Speaker Sir, I am grateful that I have got a chance to speak again on this subject which has come up also on the floor of this House during the last few years. Because for want of time, I will not elaborate. I will come straight to this cut motion that was brought by the hon. Member from Nongtalang. He has mentioned about places and certain dispensaries in the Jaintia Hills District. As I have pointed out on the earlier occasion, some of the buildings belong to the P.W.D. even though we have got some departmental buildings. I know the Nongtalang Dispensary was opened by me only last year and I was sorry to learn that the house is about to collapse. But later on when I asked for the report from the D.H.S. I was informed that the Executive Engineer in charge of that Division has to vacate all the person to some other places. So we have now vacated this building and we have written to the P.W.D for plan and estimates. I do not know if it would be possible to build immediately, that will depend on the fund position. In the meantime, just to save the persons, we have opened two beds ; one for males and the other for females in the new House. So with that contention, this dispensary  is being run by the department. I am aware of the fact that many of the dispensaries not only in Jaintia Hills but also in the other two districts are in a bad condition. I also know that a number of patients in the interior have not been accommodated in those dispensaries due to lack of accommodation. I may inform the hon. Member that we have tried to take immediate action but for want of funds sometimes for want of staff, we have not been able to make much progress. But now all these places like Shillong, Jowai and Tura will be taken up by the P.H.E. Department since the P.W.D. are extremely busy and cannot undertake buildings along with road construction and other construction. Hence, it was decided that those buildings of the Health Department should be handed over to the P.H.E. Department. I think the position will be improved.

        Another point is about what the hon. Member from the Shillong Cantonment has stated. He wanted to know about the position of seats in Medical Colleges. He stated that those students desiring to go for medical studies are not given enough scope. Now the position is this. Mr. Speaker Sir, we do not have our own Medical College and I do not know whether we should go for one. Now, we are very fortunate that we have our own University in Shillong. I do not know in future whether we will be able to have a Medical College. At present we are depending on other Medical Colleges like Gauhati medical College, Medical College, Dibrugarh, Silchar Medical College and Regional Medical College, Imphal. The Government of India has allotted about five seats in the Berhampur Medical College in Orissa and I hope compared with other small States in India, our scope is not so bad. I am not sure how far it is true that in the State of Assam, certain districts were allotted seats district-wise and certain district have a population more than three time than that of our State, have got four to five seats only. Earlier we used to get seats from the Government of Assam about 20 in number but after all we know that this Pre Medical Course is abolished, naturally, seats are to be cut down.

Mr. Speaker : I think the hon. Member does not want that. He is only claiming that there should be increase in the allotment of seats.

Shri Sanford K. Marak, Minister Health : Well Mr. Speaker Sir, I have already written to my counterpart in Assam. I have talked to the Union Minister and also written to him. But they have not allotted us more seats. I will, however , pursue the matter because I know that there are quite a lot of our tribal boys and non tribals also who have approached us for that. In fact, the matter has been pursued both at departmental and other levels also because we will be opening more hospitals and dispensaries for which we will need more doctors. I hope our boys and girls will come forward for this profession and we will give them every opportunity. That I will try and I do not know this year what will be our fate. How ever, if we do not know this year what will be our fate. However, if we got more seats then definitely it will be good for us. I think that is clear now.

Shri D.N. Joshi : What about the recognition by the other Universities?

Shri Sanford K. Marak, Minister Health : On recognition I am helpless and I cannot ask other Universities to recognise. That was also brought to the notice of the Minister in charge of Health, Government of India. I will soon go to Delhi to attend the Conference on Health and I will also enquire into one unfortunate incident about one student who is to undergo medical training. So, with these few words I would request the hon. Member to kindly withdraw the cut motion.

Shri H.E. Pohshna : Mr. Speaker Sir, I have not expected their policy to be different. I just want to know that the Department is not indifferent. I have heard from the Minister that the Government is trying its level best and we, on this side also never refused to withdraw our cut motions. So we hope that they will also not refuse to take action. With these few words, Sir, I withdraw the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the cut motion? (Voices, yes, yes)

(The cut motion with the leave of the House was withdrawn)

        Let us come to the cut motion to be moved by Mr. Hopingstone Lyngdoh. He is absent. So the cut motion is deemed to have been withdrawn.

Cut Motion No.3. Mr. Joshi will you move?

Shri D.N. Joshi : No. Sir.

Mr. Speaker : So it stands automatically withdrawn.

        No.4 cut motion which stands in the name of Mr. Francis K. Mawlot. it is a token cut and not a grievance on the working of the Department. So it cannot be taken as a token cut.

        The fifth cut motion stands in the name of Mr. S.D. Khongwir and Mr. W. Syiemiong. Anyone of them can move.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.1,25,75,000, under No.35 Major Head "230-Medical" at page 219 of the Budget be reduce by Rs.100 i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs.1,25,75,000 do stand reduced by Rs.100.

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now those who have specific grievances can initiate.

*Shri S.D. Khongwir : Mr. Speaker Sir, as this is a token cut I am expected to be very specific and, at the same time I also choose to be very brief on this particular matter. Sir, I would like to say only a few words with regard to the improvement of this hospital that we have here in Shillong, the Reid Chest Provincial Hospital. From my personal experience - and I am not drawn to that experience of the other hon. Members who happens to stay here in Shillong or even those who stay in their own constituencies who must have received a lot of requests with applications from the patients suffering from T.B.- in so far as I am concerned, Mr. Speaker Sir, I have seen so many of these applications from the patients who came to me and I believe to other hon. Members also for recommendations to get them admitted to the hospital. We are also aware, Mr. Speaker Sir, that the period of treatment of this particular disease is a very long one. I have made  several visits to this hospital who have been  there for as long as 5 years. There are patients who have been under treatment for the last 6 months or 1,2 or 3 years. But, Mr. Speaker Sir, I have also noticed from the discussion I have had with the Superintendent of this hospital and he has also shown me a long waiting list of patients. But on one occasion I took the patient for admission but the poor Superintendent of this Hospital had to refuse me also and he reinforced his argument that it was not possible. He cited an example by saying that "Only yesterday I had to refuse one patient referred to me by the Medical Minister himself". So, Mr. Speaker Sir, from the Report of the Estimates Committees on Health it is found that the incidence of this disease in the State, especially in this district is fairly high. They have also noted that it is worth nothing that the majority of the people suffering from this disease belong to the poor sections of the society who cannot afford to undergo treatment elsewhere. From my personal experience, Mr. Speaker Sir, I also found that most of the patients come to me to get my help and recommendation to get themselves admitted into this Hospital and all of them are people coming from the very poor section of the society. But Mr. Speaker Sir, as I have said earlier, because of the limited number of non paying beds in this hospital, there is a huge accumulation, a long waiting list is there and supposing now if a patient applies today for admission, he will be admitted after a lapse of 3 weeks or one month and sometimes the patient will get admission after he died. It happens in one case at Mawlai, Sir. We already applied, Sir, and because of the non-availability of accommodation this poor patient had to wait and in the meantime he died. So, my point in bringing this cut motion is to request Government to kindly look into this matter. In the hospital there are what they call the paying beds and non paying beds. For the non paying beds, the patients, I understand, do not pay anything but for the paying beds they have to spend quite a huge amount of money to get the admission. So Mr. Speaker Sir, if I am not mistaken, I think there are about 20 to 25 paying beds which, most of the time, are lying unoccupied. So, Sir, I would humbly request the Government to look into this matter for the interest of this poorer section of the society of the people who are really  very poor and who cannot afford treatment  anywhere else. The Government  will please consider this and improve the position- the seats position in the hospital so that more patients can be admitted and at the same time, I am certain Mr. Speaker Sir, that it will not be too difficult for the Government to accept this proposal by converting the paying beds into non paying beds. So with these few words, Mr. Speaker Sir, I believe and trust that the Government will kindly consider and even if the Minister in charge of the Department will not be in a position to commit anything before the floor of this House, but he will please give this matter the most humanitarian consideration at his command.

Mr. Speaker : Mr. Joshi.

Shri D.N. Joshi : Mr. Speaker Sir, while supporting this cut motion, I want to make only certain observations. What my friend ahs already said that our State is inhabited  by many poor people and that they cannot afford to pay is true. The patients of such poverty stricken and diseased people will not be able to pay on account of their financial difficulties.

Mr. Speaker : I think the mover of the cut motion has already and specifically mentioned the difficulties faced by the patients who are poor. It is known fact T.B. is a disease both for the rich and the poor and you need not elaborate on that.

Shri D.N. Joshi : For the information of the Government let me inform the House Sir, that this morning when I came to the Assembly also I had the occasion to make recommendation for a patient who is very poor. Sir, this hospital, the Reid Chest Hospital has got a clinic here in Police Bazar and there is also an X-ray plant but for want of films, the patients most of the time have to go to other institutions like the Ram Krishna Mission Hospital to get their X rays taken and whenever fresh films had to be taken they are brought here but in the absence of films the screening is taken here and constant use of the X-ray Plant for screening poses a health hazard not only to the patients but to the attending. Doctors, Laboratory Assistants and to the public also. Therefore I urge upon the Government through you, Sir, that proper measures must be taken to supply the clinic with sufficient spare of plates and films so that the poor people need not have to go to other hospitals where they have to pay charges, because it is very difficult for them to pay due to their poverty and so that they will not have to snatch away money out of their family budget for this.

          Again, Sir, because of the remote change of getting any seat in the hospital they have to be in Shillong as outdoor patients and this puts them into much difficulty because they have to pay more and the disease also spreads. So measures must be taken to extend the hospital as already demanded, quickly immediately and effectively. And these films should be supplied and money should be provided for it. I hope the House, from humanitarian consideration, will not be lagging behind in making fresh allocation. The poor diseased persons may kindly be helped. In two cases, Sir, special pay to the 2 Doctors has not been paid. The Government have accepted the Assam Pay Commission recommendations and there is a case pending and a memorandum was submitted to the Government and I think, this is getting the attention of the Government. I would also urge upon the Government to give that facility by making available the special pay to those 2 doctors who are also serving with the other Doctors in the hospital.

Mr. Speaker : The Minister in charge of Health may please reply.

*Shri Sanford K. Marak, (Minister Health) : Mr. Speaker Sir, I will give a clear picture on the cut motion regarding the Reid Chest Hospital. There is already a total bed strength of 214 and out of this 110 are free beds, and 39 reserved for other Departments, 3 investigation beds and the rest about 62 are paying beds. It is true that there has been quite a number of  applications and in fact a number of patients approach me also. As has been pointed out by the mover himself, these persons cannot be released within 3 weeks or 2 weeks because it is not a case of malaria or influenza. Here a T.B patient has to undergo treatment for a long long period in the hospital nor we can ask people not to contact T.B. So it is extremely difficult to scope with the situation. However in this connection, I would like to inform the hon. Member through you, Sir, that now a days is one system of treatment known as domiciliary system in that injections are given to the T.B patients at home. As you know, Sir,  T.B. is contagious disease, yet it is no more as dangerous disease as it was before. So only those very very serious cases are admitted into the hospitals. Even then there are thousands of serious cases and I quite agree with the hon. Member but then it will not be very easy to convert paying beds into free beds. In any case we will try to see what can be done; those suggestions are very good and we will see if some empty beds can be given as free beds inc certain condition to a certain category of patients in future. So, long we have been giving only 2.25 per patient for consumption of food and now it has been increased to rs.4.50 per day that means double. Regarding the suggestions made by Mr. Joshi, i.e., the Clinic at Police Bazar is being used for other purposes like Family Planning and Ayurvedic Branch recently, I do not know whether there is any good  X- Ray plant except the one with the Ramakrishna Mission Dispensary.

Mr. Speaker : I think patients would always prefer any place where there is a better Radiologists.

Shri D.N. Joshi : The Radiologists is very good there.

Mr. Speaker :- It is a matter to be decide by a doctor. I am neither a doctor nor you.

Shri Sanford K. Marak, (Minister Health) : I think the hon. Member will withdraw the cut motion with the clarification given by me.

Shri S.D. Khongwir : On the clarification given by the Minister that there are 62 paying beds. I would like to seek further clarification as to how many beds are lying vacant out of this 62. What is the percentage approximately.

Shri Sanford K. Marak, Minister Health :  Let me explain the position. These patients of the paying wards sometimes come to me with the request to convert their beds into free beds. I have tried personally but sometimes the doctors under my Department cannot comply with my request even. That is the position. Regarding the percentage I require notice (laughter)

 Shri S.D. Khongwir : Then can we postpone withdrawal if my cut motion on this particular Grant? (loud Laughter)

        So Mr. Speaker Sir, in view of the clarification and assurances given by the Minister, I withdraw the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker : Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the cut motion?

(The cut motion with the leave of the House was withdrawn)

        Now I put the question before the House. The question  is that an amount of Rs.1,25,75,000 be granted to Minister in Charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "280-Medical"

(The motion was carried and the demand passed) 

        Minister in charge of Health to move Grant No.36

Shri Sanford K. Marak, Minister, (Education, Medical) : Mr. Speaker Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.20,79,200 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain changes which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head "281-Family Planning "

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. I have received two cut motions standing in the names of Shri Francis K. Mawlot and Shri H.E. Pohshna. But before I ask Shri Francis K. Mawlot to move his cut motion may I inform the House that we have received the news that Shri B. N. Chakravarty, Governor of Haryana, has passed away this morning. Is it the sense of the House that exactly at 1.30 p.m. we will make an obituary references and that the House will extend till the obituary references ends? (Voices : Yes, yes)

Shri Francis K. Mawlot : Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.20,79,200 under Grant No.36, major Head "281-Family Planning" at page 247 of the Budget be reduced to Re.1 i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs.20,79,200 do stand reduced to Re.1

Mr. Speaker : Motion moved. Now you may initiate the discussion, you will get 2 minutes. I think it is better if you initiate the discussion on Tuesday.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot : Alright Sir.


OBITUARY REFERENCES

Mr. Speaker Sir : Let us pass on to the next item. Obituary Reference.

Shri W.A. Sangma, (Chief Minister) : Late Birendra Narayan Chakravarty, Governor of Haryana, passed away yesterday at Calcutta, at the age of 71.

        Born on 20th December 1904, late Birendra Narayan Chakravarty, joined the I.C.S in 1929 : he became Finance Secretary of undivided Bengal Government in 1944 and continued upto 1947. He became Finance Secretary of undivided Bengal Government in 1944 and continued upto 1947. He became Secretary to the Governor from 1947 to 1948; Councilor  Indian Embassy in Nanking, China, 1948 ; Head of India Liaison Mission Tokyo, Japan, 1948-49 : Joint Secretary, Ministry of External Affairs, 1949-51 ; Secretary, Commonwealth Relations, Government of India 1951-52; Indian Ambassador in the Netherlands, 1952-54; High Commissioner for India in Ceylon, 1955-56; Special Secretary, External  Affairs Ministry,1956-60; High Commissioner in Canada, 1960-62; and permanent Representatives for India in the U.N.1962-65.

        Late Birendra Narayan Chakravarty, who became Governor  of Haryana on September  15, 1967 was the doyen Governors.

        By the sad demise, the country has lost an eminent administration and an able diplomat who has served the Nation in various capacities.

Mr. Speaker : Any other hon. Member.

Shri Maham Singh : Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to associate myself with the Leader of the House in expressing my deep sense of grief and sorrow at the passing away of this eminent son of India. Mr. Speaker Sir, late Birendra Narayan Chakravarty, after entering service, swerved in different capacities. As already expressed by the Leader of the House, throughout the whole of his service career he had proved to be an able administrator and an efficient diplomat. Mr. Speaker Sir, he was not only an able administrator, but a very popular person among the public. Towards his latter life he had proved himself also to be a very outstanding figure in the world. Mr. Speaker Sir, we feel that his passing away has been a great loss to the country and we all pay homage to this great son of India. May his soul rest in peace.

*Shri S.D. Khongwir : Mr. Speaker Sir, I also would like to associate myself with the sentiments of grief expressed by the leader of the House and the Leader of the Opposition Party at the passing away this eminent son of India. Mr. Speaker Sir, I had met the late Birendra Narayan Chakravarty, the Governor of Haryana at Chandigarh and I can say with confidence, Mr. Speaker Sir, he was a person of very amiable disposition. As a country we have lost an eminent administrator and an able diplomat. May God grant peace and strength to the members of the bereaved families.

Mr. Speaker : While associating myself with the sentiments expressed by the Leaders of the House and other hon. Members, I would also just like to pass a few remarks  regarding the loss that the country has suffered in the death of this noble son of India. When we study his career we will find that he ahs served the country not only with full distinction but with the greatest loyalty to the country as a whole. The very fact that he had to serve in the Indian Embassy in Nanking during the year 1948 clearly indicates  how is great was the confidence that the whole country had reposed upon the late Birendra Narayan Chakravarty. China was then in a state of turmoil and it was only this  type of person with foresight and deep understanding who could really study the situation in that country. But some thing happened during the period when he served as High Commissioner for India in Canada when he succeeded in getting the collaboration of Canada for the various economic and technological  advancement of India. Finally I think we remember him when he was a permanent representative for India at the U.N. during one of the most crucial periods of history, i.e., from 1962 to 1965 when India had to fight against the aggression of her neighbours, when India had to depend solely on the strength of the arguments of its own representatives, when India was faced by China on the one side and Pakistan on the other side during the year 1962 and 1965. He had served the country in the UN with full dedication. As a Governor of Haryana, he was really admired and respected by all. he was one of the few persons whom the country can really rely on their knowledge in diplomacy particularly in diplomacy of modern times. With these few words I would like that we should pay our respect to this giant that India had produced and we would pray God Almighty to console the members of the bereaved family. Now, I request all the hon. Members to be on their feet for two minutes.

(At this stage the House stood up in silence for 2 minutes)


ADJOURNMENT

        The House stands adjourned till 9.30 AM on Tuesday the 30th March, 1976.

R. T. RYMBAI
Dated Shillong, Secretary,
The 27th March, 1976 Meghalaya Legislative Assembly.

*****