Proceedings of the Budget Session of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly held on 31st March, 1976, at 9.30 A.M. with the Speaker in the Chair.


Present :- 7 Ministers, 3 Ministers of State and 36 Members.

Mr. Speaker :- Let us start the business by taking up Starred Question No.7.

STARRED QUESTIONS

(To which oral replies were given)

Findings on the Samples of Tung Rymbai

Shri Winstone Syiemiong asked :

        *7. Will the Minister-in-charge of Health be pleased to state what are the findings of the Public Analyst at Gauhati on the sample of the 'Tung Rymbai' which 

caused death of a number of persons last year at village Mawklot?

Shri  Sandford K. Marak (Minister-in-charge, of Health) replied :

        7. The findings are as follows -

        The samples of 'Ktung Rymbai' and "Soyabeans" were chemically examined but no chemical poisons including organo-chlorine and organo-phosphorous insecticides could be isolated."

Shri W. Syiemiong :- When did they received the report?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister-in-charge, of Health) :- Some time back, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It was examined at the Pasture Institute and also by a Public Analyst and also have the report of the Bacteriological Department of the Medical College, Gauhati. With regard to the date I require notice, Sir.

Shri W. Syiemiong :- Is the report to be taken as final?

Mr. Speaker :- In other words, the findings of the three institutions corroborate with one another.

Shri W. Syiemiong :- Then is that to be taken as final?

Shri  Sandford K. Marak (Minister-in-charge, of Health) :- It can be taken as final. In the mean time, we have made an enquiry at the level of the Deputy Commissioner, and if necessary, I can lay the report on the Table of the House.

Shri W. Syiemiong :- Is it also a fact tat some elements or traces of mercury were found in the samples?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister-in-charge, of Health) :- I will read out the last para of this report to make it clear, "It is, therefore, clear from these reports that there was no evidence of chemical poison and that the death was due to bacterial contamination of the fermented soya beans or "TUNG RYMBAI".


UNSTARRED QUESTIONS

(Replies to which were placed on the Table)

Shillong-Kyrdemkulai-Bhoilymbong roads

        Shri D. Lyngdoh asked :

        83. Will the Minister-in-charge of Public Works Department be pleased to state -

(a)

Whether it is a fact that the Public Works Department roads from Shillong to Kyrdemkulai via Umsning and Shillong to Bhoilymbong via Umroi are all weather roads?

(b)

If so, whether the Government has been able to certify that the said road are fit for all vehicular traffic throughout the year?

Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah [Minister-in-charge of Public Works Department (R. and B.)] replied :

        83. (a) - Yes. But the portion from Umsning to Kyrdemkulai is not a Public Works Department road.

        (b) - Yes.


Visit to Shillong District Jail by the Minister for Jails

Prof. M.N. Majaw asked :

        84. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

(a)

How many times, the Minister-in-charge of Jails has visited the Shillong District Jail, since the Jail was taken over by the Government of Meghalaya?

(b) The date of such visits, if any?
(c) If he has not visited the Jail, the reasons thereto?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

        84 (a), (b) and (c) - The Assam Jail Manual Vol.I which is followed in Meghalaya does not have any provision for visit to the Jail by the Minister-in-charge. In the case of the District Jail, Shillong the Minister-in-charge has not yet visited it since it was taken over by Meghalaya. The Jail is, however, being regularly visited by the Chief Secretary, whose reports are submitted to the Minister.

Shri W. Syiemiong :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, whether the Assam Jail Manual Vol.I provides for the visit by the Chief Secretary?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Well Sir, there is not need for such a provision. Any of the offices can visit.


Number of buses and bus chassis

Shri Manindra Rava asked :

            85. Will the Minister in-charge of Transport be please to state -

(a)

The number of bus chassis so far purchased by the Government?

(b)

The number of buses plying in the road at present?

(c)

Whether the question of introducing State bus service in the Tura Goalpara route has been considered?

(d)

If so, when will this come into effect?

(e)

If not, why not?

Shri D.D. Pugh (Minister Transport)  replied :

  85. (a) - Forty seven bus chassis.
(b)

-At present 28 buses are on road.

(c)

- No.

(d)

- Does not arise.

(e)

- As there are other priority routs within the State to be considered. The District Council buses already operated on this route.

Shri F.K. Mawlot :- 85 (b). What is the reason that the 19 buses are not put on the road?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister Industries) :- They are out of order, Sir.

Shri F.K. Mawlot :- When repairs are done on these.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister Industries) :- They are under repair now.

Shri F.K. Mawlot :- To which workshops these are taken for repair?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister Industries) :- I require notice for that.

Shri Maham Singh :- Where are these manufactured?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister Industries) :- They are manufactured by Jamshedpur.

Shri Maham Singh :- Is there any attempt for the manufacture of chassis in the State?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister Industries) :- The manufacture of chassis is done only in huge industries and they are situated in very few places.

Shri Maham Singh :- No, I mean the bodies. Where are the bodies manufactured?

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister Industries) :- They are manufactured in Calcutta.


Educated Unemployed to Live Register of Employment Exchange

Shri G. Mylliemngap asked :

        86. Will the Minister-in-charge of Labour be pleased to state -

(a) The number of educated unemployed as recorded in the Live Register of the three Employment Exchanges i.e. Shillong, Tura and Jowai?
(b) The number of illiterate unemployed as per records of the three Employment Exchanges?
(c) How many registered educated unemployed have been given employment in the State Government offices from 1st January, 1975 to 31st December, 1975?
(d) How many employments have been given to register illiterate unemployment from 1str January, 1975 to 31st December, 1975?

Shri D.D. Pugh (Minister, Labour) replied :

16. (a) - Shillong ... ... ...

5, 274

Tura ... ... ... 672
Jowai ... ... ... 348
(b) - Shillong ... ... ... 2,744
 Tura ... ... ... 87
Jowai ... ... ... 131
(c) - Shillong ... ... ... 15
Tura ... ... ... 25
Jowai ... ... ... 26
(d) - Shillong ... ... ... 4
Tura ... ... ... 1
Jowai ... ... ... 1

Meghalaya Government Calendar for 1976

Shri S.D. Khongwir  asked :

        87. Will the Minister-in-charge of Information and Public Relations be pleased to state -

(a)

Whether the Government have noticed the various defects in the Meghalaya Calendar of 1976?

(b)

If so, what steps Government have taken or proposed to take against the defaulting farm?

(c)

Whether the firm responsible for printing and designing the 1976 calendar in the same firm which was engaged for 1975 calendar?

Shri D.D. Pugh (Minister, Information and Pubic Relations) replied :

        87. (a) - Yes.

        (b) - The firm is being penalised.

        (c) - Yes.


Grants-in-aid to Shillong Club

Shri H.E. Pohshna asked :

        88. Will the Minister-in-charge of Tourism be pleased to state -

(a)

The amount of grants-in-aid made to the Shillong Club during the past three years for the improvement of the Golf Course?

(b)

Whether it is a fact that the Shillong Club is a Private Commercial Club?

Shri D.D. Pugh (Minister, Information and Public Relations) replied :-

        88 (a) - The amount of grants-in-aid made during the year 1972-73, 1973-74 and 1974-75 for the improvement of the Golf Course at Shillong was Rs.1,05,855 (Rupees one lakhs five thousand eight hundred fifty five) as follows :-

        Rs.35,855 during the year 1972-73.

        Rs.50,000 during the year 1973-74.

        Rs.20,000 during the year 1974-75.

        The Grants-in-aid was given to the Golf Club.

        (b) - Shillong Club is a Limited Company by guarantee, pursuant of the provisions of the Indian Company's Act, 1913.


Claimant of Nongkhyllem Reserve Forest

Shri S.D. Khongwir asked :

        89. Will the Minister-in-charge of Forests be pleased to state -

(a)

Whether it is a fact that a person under the style of 'Syiem Sutnga is claiming the Nongkhyllem Reserve Forest as his private property?

(b)

If so, the present position of the matter may be stated?

Shri Grohonsing Marak (Minister, Forests) replied :

        89. (a) - No.

        (b) - Does not arise.


Kalaichar-Zigzak Gobinath Road

Shri Samarendra Sangma asked :

        90. Will the Minister-in-charge of P.W.D. be pleased to state -

(a)

The amount earmarked for the Kalaichar - Zigzak - Gobinath Hills P.W.D. Road for the year 1975-76?

(b)

The item of works taken up during 1975-76 in the said road?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah (Minister, P.W.D.) replied :

        90 (a) - Rupees 2,00,000.

        (b) The work has not started yet.


Expenditure on the Special Jail

Prof. M.N. Majaw asked :

        91. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

(a)

What is the average monthly expenditure on the Special Jail at Mawlai?

(b)

What is the average monthly expenditure on the District Jail at Shillong?

(c)

Whether it is a fact that the expenditure at the Special Jail is more than thrice than that of the Shillong Jail?

(d)

If so, what is the reason for this great disproportion?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

        91. (a) - Rupees 85,881 approximately.

        (b) - Rupees 23, 200 approximately.

        (c) - Yes.

        (d) - Expenditure on the Special Jail is higher, because since it is a temporary Jail with no outer walls, there is a greater expenditure on staff particularly guards. Besides, the scale of ration, etc. as prescribed by the Government of Nagaland is different.


Water Supply to villages

Shri Jormanik Syiem asked :

        92. Will the Minister-in-charge of Public Health Engineering be pleased to state -

(a)

Whether the Government is aware that there is a crying need for drinking water supply in the village of Nongpyiur, Mawklot Sadew and Mawkhan Mawrashe?

(b)

Whether the Public Health Engineering has received a number of applications from these villages for affording water supply?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Public Health Engineering) replied :

        92. (a) - Yes.

        (b) - Yes. Applications have been received from Mawklot and Sadew villages.


Distribution of Water Supply under Mawlai Water Supply Scheme

Shri Stalington David Khongwir asked :

        93. Will the Minister-in-charge, Public Health Engineering be pleased to state -

(a)

Whether the Government are aware that distribution of water under the Mawlai Water Supply Scheme to the entire area of Mawlai has so far not been achieved?

(b)

If so, the reasons thereof?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Public Health Engineering) replied :

        93. (a) - Yes.

        (b) - Due to paucity of fund both for construction and maintenances.


Block I and II of Mikir Hills

Shri Martin Narayan Majaw asked :

        94. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

(a)

Whether any recent progress has been made in the discussions between the Governments of Assam and Meghalaya on Meghalaya's legitimate claims to Blocks I and II in the Mikir Hills District of Assam?

(b)

If so, what is the latest stand of the Government of Assam in this regard?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

        94. (a) - Yes.

        (b) - A meeting was held between the Chief Minister, Assam and Chief Minister, Meghalaya, at Dispur on 29th February, 1976 to discuss matters relating to the boundary of the two States. It was agreed that relevant population data regarding Block I and Block II of Mikir Hills District may be collected for further discussion of the matter between the two Chief Ministers.

Shri H. Hadem :- 94 (b). To whom the collection of the population data was entrusted?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- These are collected by the representative Departments of the two Governments.

Shri H. Hadem :- Whether any data was fixed for submissions of such data?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- No. But it expected to be completed as early as possible.

Shri H. Hadem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, whether any date has been fixed for finalisation?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- The target date is 15th April for completion of discussion. Of course, it may not be resolved at that level. However, it is expected to be completed by the 15th April.

Shri H. Hadem :- 15th April of 1976 or 1977?

        (Voices : 1977 is too far away.)

Mr. Speaker :- 1976. Now let us pass on to next item. I think the Chief Minister was talking about the charge of corruption.... (Voice No, Sir, it was the Health Minister).

    Now, I remember. As I said yesterday, we will allow the Minister-in-charge to clear the charges of corruption.

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, yesterday, I could not complete and now I would try to clear it. But I would first of all like to know as to what is the real meaning of the word 'corruption'. Since I do not know much about the English literature, may I look up its meaning in the dictionaries?

Mr. Speaker :- What dictionaries?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- The Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English : "Corrupt (of persons, their actions) immoral; depraved; dishonest (especially through taking bribes) : practices (especially) the offering and accepting of bribes. 3. (of languages, texts, etc.) debased by errors or alternations!'

        In another dictionary : "Corrupt : to make putrid; to taint: to debase: to soil: to destroy the purity of : to pervert: to bribe, etc.

        Sir, I do not know what the hon. Member meant actually and since he did not bring any specific charges I am unable to clarify. Unfortunately in his absence, we cannot ask him as to what he meant by 'corrupt'. Anyway, Mr. Speaker, Sir, immediately after that he had mentioned about the purchase of pipes and he had also wanted to know whether these pipes were going to be used or whether they were purchased recently or since a long time ago and were being used or not. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had tow rite letters to the Union Ministry as far back as January, 1974, that means two years ago because supply of pipes was not properly made by the manufacturers and actually we placed orders through the Government of India. Let me read out the letter I received from the Ministry of Supply and Rehabilitation, Government of India.

        "Please refer to your D.O. letter No. PHE/Mech/RC/70/485, of January 24 regarding supply of GI pipes.

        I am glad to inform you that M/s Zenith Steel Pipes, Bombay have dispatched about 1000 meters of 80mm LG and 1977 meters of 25 mm MG pipes in the month of February, 1974. They have also planned to dispatch one further wagon-load of the material during the current month.

        As regards supply orders pending with M/s Indian Tube Co. Calcutta the total quantity supplied upto 28th February, 1974 is 40,234 meters. I agree that the quantity supplied is rather meagre, but their production has suffered greatly in the past on account of labour trouble, power cut and inadequate supply of coke over gas. However, they have assured us that maximum supply would be made against pending orders as soon as the situation at their works returns to normal.

        With regards,

Yours Sincerely,

(R.K. Khadilkar).

        Sometimes these pipes are to be booked two to three years in advance because the demand all over the country is very very great. We do not directly make payment to the company. For the information of the hon. Members I would like also to apprise the House of the procedure of payment as follows :-

        Orders are placed on such manufacturers who are under D.G.S. and D. rate contract.

        The procedure of payment is as follows :

        "98 percent of the stores supplied is paid to the manufacturers by the Pay & Accounts Officer, Ministry of Works and Housing, Government of India on P.H.E. head of accounts on Production of the Railway Receipts (after booking the materials to consignee-in this caste Executive Engineers (PHE) of different division under this State).

        The balance of 2 percent is also paid to manufacturers by the P and A.O. Ministry of Works and Housing after the relevant Inspection Notes verified by the Executive Engineers, (PHE) and returned to the manufacturers.

        It would thus be clear that the department is not directly making any payments to the manufacturers. The materials thus paid for, by the P.A. and O, Ministry of Works and Housing are subsequently adjusted by Works Memo Account raised by the Accountant General, Meghalaya."

        So these pipes Mr. Speaker, Sir, have to be booked early otherwise we will not be able to carry out the works even when sanction for the works is obtained. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member from Nongtalang wanted to know about the stolen pipes in the village Twah-U-Sdiah. The matter is under investigation by the Police.

Mr. Speaker :- What type of investigation?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, P.H.E.) :- They are trying to find out the culprits as well as the place from which the pipes were stolen. Mr. Speaker, Sir, another hon. Member from this side mentioned about the Umsning Water Supply Scheme. I may inform the hon. Member that the survey work is completed and estimate is under preparation and the total cost of the scheme will be round 22 lakhs of rupees and this scheme will benefit 7 villages. But, Sir, it is understood that there is a dispute regarding the source with the paddy field owners and this cannot be settled up till now.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is not dispute and the matter has been settled now.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- If it is assured by the hon. Member from that area that there is no dispute, the works will be carried on and Umroi water supply scheme also will be examined and if possible, it will be taken up. This is a small scheme and actually, the Community Development Department has taken up the scheme. The Bhoilymbong water supply scheme is being taken u and estimate is ready. I understand the scheme will receive the sanction. But it is understood that there is dispute between the group of villages regarding the source.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh :- The group of villages was created by the department itself. Actually, there is no dispute. There is only one man who obtained the signatures of the people and submitted a protest report to the department and one of them is the contractor of the department.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- If he is a contractor, he is not a party to my department.

Mr. Speaker :- A contractor is a contractor and Minister has no control over him and he does the work according to the terms of the contract.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- In this connection, I would request the hon. Member to kindly help the department.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh :- I always helped and I accompanied the Minister many times.

Mr. Speaker :- The hon. Member should help the Minister at the site and not here in the House.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh :- Let the Minister come and day and I am read to help.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Regarding the 10-bedded hospital for which it is alleged that no water is available. I have already told the House that the execution part of the scheme is included under the water supply scheme in the P.W.D. budget. As the hon. Member pointed out yesterday the P.W.D. also cannot go ahead with the scheme. Anyway, the scheme is now under execution and work is in progress.

    The Hon. Member from Umroi spoke something about the Tura Water Supply Scheme. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this scheme was executed long ago while we were struggling for a separate State. As all hon. Members are aware, there was no voice to protest to the then Government of Assam. So the work was going on and leaders in Garo Hills were busy with the movement for a separate State. So the scheme was not properly looked after. I know that it is unsuccessful and I am sorry to mention here that recently when I visited the source I found that the whole jungle was completely cleared I used even binoculars from my residence in order to see the place properly and then came to learn from the Executive Engineer in-charge of the Division that supply of water has gone down.

        So unless and until the people have a civic sense to protect the catchment area to help the Government and themselves then any attempt made by the Government alone will be frustrated. I don't think they will be able to control the villages and the forests from deforestation if the people themselves do not stop clearing of the jungles. I am afraid, particularly in my District in Garo Hills, in future if that deforestation goes on at that rate, the people may have to make their own choice to get drinking water but I am afraid that may not be possible. This is the position. Anyway now, after a new scheme is being completed recently, we get some water from a pucca stream. Connections are given to those who are willing to pay for connection and no discrimination was made.

        Another hon. Member mentioned about the Circuit House at Tura that during the rainy season the water there is very dirty. This is true. The supply of water is from the old water supply scheme at Upper Babupara. The P.H.E. Department may take up the supply of water to the Circuit House if this is asked by the P.W.D.

        The hon. Member from Chokpot, Mr. Marak, wanted to know about some of the Water Supply Schemes completed a long time back but no repairs were made. This is due to some difficulties faced by the Department. The P.H.E. Department stopped the repairs and maintenance of some of the Water Supply Schemes. He also wanted to know about the Silkigiri Water Supply Scheme. The scheme is sanctioned and the works will be taken up as early as possible.

        Again 2 or 3 Members spoke about the 3 villages - Mawngap, Marbisu and Mawphlang and then another hon. Member informed the House yesterday that the population in 1970 in that village was only 4000 but in spite of Family Planning Programme the said population has gone up to 8000 now. (Laughter). But then this scheme would cost about 47 lakhs and it will benefit as many as 8000 or perhaps more in future but then the cost of maintenance is going to be very high. About 2 lakhs annually will have to be spent for pumping but unfortunately when this was sent to the Finance Department, it was not found acceptable by the Finance Department and it was turned  down. Anyway in future, further dialogue can take place and in fact another hon. Member from that area came and met me with the village elders and when I asked whether there was any hope to complete the scheme with the help of the villagers, he said it was very very difficult. Anyway, Sir, in spite of that difficulty, this scheme will receive due attention.

Mr. Speaker :- Before you continue with the next point, I may point out that in respect of the replies to the various points raised by the Members. The Ministers are functioning under the principle of collective responsibility, and they have to speak in such a way that they have a responsibility in other Departments also. In this case, the Minister should not shift the responsibility to the Finance Department, otherwise, the Finance Minister may have to reply

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, PHE. etc.) :- Anyway, Sir, that is the position. The Government is facing difficulty not only in the Department but also in other Departments due to paucity of funds.

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, another Member, Mr. Nongtdu wanted to know about the Ummulong Water Supply Scheme. The scheme has already been sanctioned on 30th March, 1976 and then he was just referring to the inconvenience of contractors. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in these areas, in the rural areas, we give preference to local contractors. of course they are not technically qualified and I understand that they are not experienced in this line because fitting of pipes, construction of storages, etc., require certain knowledge of engineering. But then, in future, I will see that these things things are properly executed and properly supervised by our officers.

        The hon. Member from Cantonment wanted to know about the 30-bedded Civil Hospital at Cherrapunjee. This is a Primary Health Centre. And I was told that there was no water. But I say that water is there and we can supply water provided internal connection is made. The internal connection like fitting etc., I understand has to be done by the PWD and after that is done then we can supply water.

        And Sir, regarding the Greater Shillong Water Supply Scheme, I have already told yesterday that we have already taken up the scheme and then to inform the House about the supply position of water in Shillong, I would like to say that the connections have been completed and we have started giving water about 2 lakhs additional gallons to the Municipality and that we have started giving them on 16th March, 1976 and I am very glad with this.

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the Lawsohtun Water Supply Scheme, about which Mr. D.N. Joshi has also mentioned, I would like to mention here that the scheme of the PHE Department had been completed and handed over to the local committee for maintenance. Mr. K.M. Roy Marbaniang has also mentioned about Marbisu-Mawngap Water Supply Scheme. These schemes have been sanctioned. So many Member have spoken on the same point that sometime I get confused, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Anyway, I think, I have replied to almost all the points. In this connection, I would like to mention here that repeated investigations have been have been carried out by the Department. Further I would inform the House that investigations alone take several years and I have been told by some experts that in some countries only investigations took even 15 years to complete. I am told by the experts that investigations have to be carried out at different times in different places and obviously it is a time-consuming affair. There is another factor w\also which has to be taken into account, i.e. rainfall. This year rainfall may be satisfactory but there is no guarantee that next year also rainfall would be of the same intensity. If rainfall is less, the natural source of water would get dried up, springs would be dried up. All these things have to be taken into consideration before final execution of a scheme. So investigations have to be carried out many times. Another point raised by the hon. Member from Mawkyrwat that out of 37 schemes there is none for Mawkyrwat.

Mr. Speaker :- You have given the figure yesterday.

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Then I think I have already completed all the points.

Shri Jormanick Syiem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I know from the Hon'ble Minister as to what is the position of water supply to the Public Health Dispensary at Upper Shillong. Whether any progress has been made and, if so, when this Dispensary is going to be inaugurated?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Well Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have already pointed out that, fortunately or unfortunately the water supply scheme has to be under taken by one Department where as the construction of Primary Health Centre has to be taken up by another Department.

        Now, regarding this Primary Health Centre, I am told, I do not know how far it is correct, that the P.W.D. is in contact with the Military authorities for supply of water from their area. The result is yet to be obtained. I think it is under process. So without water supply, opening of the Dispensary would be meaningless. We are trying to install water supply and at the same time we are quite aware of the need for medical facilities in that area. We have been trying to open this Dispensary as early as possible but due to all these handicaps it has not been possible so long. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very grateful to all the members who have participated in this particular subject of P.H.E. Some of them are very outspoken and very vocal and some of their suggestions and advice are quite constructive. Almost everybody has taken part in this subject and although I was absent yesterday, I understand many members have been taken keen interest to help my Department for speedy execution of various schemes. So I appreciate the Members from both sides of the House who have given suggestions. Some Members have suggested about increase of staff also and I agree with them. I would, therefore, like to assure them, through you, Sir, that in future their suggestions, like to assure them, through you, Sir, that in future their suggestions, advices and guidance will not only help me but also my office. In this connection, I would like to appeal to the Members that they should come forward to assist the Department by their kind intervention. In fact, our officers could not penetrate deeper into the matter since there are some local disputes, sometimes there are disputes, among the villagers over the source of water, over the area and such difficulties are to be faced by our officers. So these types of difficulties can be overcome if the responsible leaders, who are much respected in their locality and whom people listen, come forward to help the Department.

        Then another point which I have referred to earlier, is jhumming in Garo Hills. I would appeal to my friends from Garo Hills that at least they should persuade the people in their respective area not to cut down the trees in the catchment areas. I have had the occasion to travel by helicopter from Shillong to Tura. The moment you cross Khasi Hills you will find the barren hills of Garo Hills. The difference you can easily notice. In Garo Hills, there is no jungle at all. Everything has been cleared up by jhummiers. Therefore, I would request the hon. member from Garo Hills to tell the jhummiers that the Government is providing alternative means of livelihood for them and they should refrain from wanton cutting down of the jungles otherwise a day will come when the entire district will be converted into a desert. It will affect the economy of the people of Garo Hills and for that matter the whole State.

        So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have taken a long time in replying to all the points raised in the House and with these clarifications I would request the hon. Members from Mawthengkut to think of withdrawing his cut motion.

Shri H. Hadem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Hon'ble Minister has not yet made clarification about two pending cases of water supply schemes at Shangpung and at Mynso.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in-charge of Health) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have taken note, but then it is not available here, I am sorry Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not able to tell him just now. I will try to find out and explain to him later on.

Mr. Speaker :- Mr. Mawsor, are you pressing your cut motion?

Shri Raisen Mawsor :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will not press.

Mr. Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion? (Voices  ..... Yes, yes.....) The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn. The second cut motion stands in the name of Shri Edward Kurbah. Of course he has already discussed.

Shri Edward Kurbah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will not move.

Mr. Speaker :- You will not move. Then third the cut motion stands in the name of Shri S.D. Khongwir. But he is absent. So his cut motion is deemed to have been withdrawn. Now let me put the main question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.80,67,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "282-Public Health, Sanitation and Water Supply-B Sewerage and Water Supply and 283-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed)

        The Minister-in-charge of P.W.D. to move Grant No.39.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah (Minister-in-charge of P.W.D.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.10,90,000, be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "283-Housing-A-General and B-Hosing Schemes".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received one cut motion which stands in the name of Shri Rowell Lyngdoh.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not moving.

Mr. Speaker :- Since the Hon'ble Member doe snot move, let me put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.10,90,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "283-Housing-A-General and B-Housing Schemes".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed)

        Now the Minister-in-charge of P.W.D. to move Grant No.40.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah (Minister-in-charge of P.W.D.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.21,29,000 be granted to be Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for the administration of the head "283-Housing-II-C-Government Residential Buildings".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. But since there is no cut motion. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.21,29,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payments during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "282-Housing-II-C-Government Residential Buildings."

(The motion was carried and demand was passed.)

        The Minister-in-charge of Urban Development and Municipal Administration to move Grant No.41.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah (Minister in-charge of Urban Development and Municipal Administration) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.2,40,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "284-Urban Development-A-General-I-Municipal Administration".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.2,40,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "284-Urban Development-A-General-I-Municipal Administration".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

        The Minister-in-charge of Urban Development and Town and Regional Planning to move Grant No.42.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah (Minister in-charge of Urban Development and Town and Regional Planning) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.11,30,000 be granted in the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "284-Urban Development-A-General-II-Town and Planning".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received one cut motion which stands in the name of Mr. H.E. Pohshna. But this is a token cut and the hon. Member wanted to discuss on the working of the Department in Jaintia Hills, and since there is no specific grievance, I am constrained to say that it is out of order. Let me put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.11,30,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "294-Urban Development-A-General-II Town and Regional Planning".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

        Now in the absence of the Minister in-charge of Information and Public Relations, the Minister in-charge of Industries to move Grant No.43.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister in-charge of Industries) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.9,59,000, be granted to the Minister in-charge of Industries to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "285-Information and Publicity."

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received one cut motion which stands in the name of Mr. H.E. Pohshna. But on further scrutiny, I found that there is no specific grievance. So here also the cut motion is out of order. Let me put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.9,50,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "285-Information and Publicity".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed)

        The Minister-in-charge of Industries to move Grant No.44.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister in-charge of Industries) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.21,79,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st  March, 1977, for the administration of the head "287-Labour and Employment-I-A-Labour".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.21,79,000. be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head "287-Labour and Employment-I-A-1977."

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

        The Minister-in-charge of Industries to move Grant No.45.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister-in-charge of Industries) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.80,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March 1977, for the administration of the head "287-Labour and Employment-II-A-Labour Inspectorate of Factories and Stream Boilers."

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House that an amount of Rs.80,000, be granted to Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head "287-Labour and Employment-II-A-Labour Inspectorates of Factories and Steam Boilers".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

        The Minister in-charge of Industries to move Grant No.46.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols Roy (Minister-in-charge of Industries) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.11,70,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "287-Labour and Employment-III-B-Employment and Training".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion I put the question that an amount of Rs.11,70,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "287-Labour and Employment-III-B-Employment and Training".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

        The Minister-in-charge of Supply to move Grant No.47.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister-in-charge of Supply) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.12,13,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-A-I-Civil Supplies".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received one Cut Motion which stands in the name of Mr. Y. Fuller Lyngdoh. He is absent, so the cut motion is deemed to have been withdrawn. Now the second Cut Motion stands jointly in the name of Mr. S.D. Khongwir and Mr. Winstone Syiemiong. Both the hon. Members are absent. So the Cut Motion is deemed to have been withdrawn. The third Cut Motion stands in the name of Mr. Edward Kurbah. But here also the hon. Member wants to raise the cut motion not on a specific grievance, but only to raise a discussion. Hence the Cut Motion is out of order. Let me then put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.12,13,000, be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-A-I-Civil Supplies."

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

        The Minister-in-charge of Relief & Rehabilitation to move Grant No.48.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister-in-charge of R. & R.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.8,20,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-B-II-Relief and Rehabilitation of Displaced Persons."

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no Cut Motion I put the question that an amount of Rs.8,20,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending, 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-II-Relief and Rehabilitation of Displaced Persons."

(The motion was carried and demand was passed.)

        The Minister-in-charge of Social Security and Welfare of Scheduled Casts, Scheduled, Tribes and other Backward Classes to move Grant No.49.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in-charge, Social Security and Welfare of Scheduled Castes, and Tribes and Other Backward Classes) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.46,40,000, be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-C-III-Welfare of Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes, and Other Backward Classes and D-Social Welfare."

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is not Cut Motion, I put question that an amount of Rs.46,40,000 be granted to the Minister-incharge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "288- Social Security and Welfare-C-III Welfare of Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and Other Backward Classes and D-Social Welfare."

(The Motion was carried and demand was passed).

        The Chief Minister to move Grant No.50.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.87,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-D-other Social Security and Welfare Programme-IV-Soldier, Sailors, and Airmen's Board."

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved and since there is no Cut Motion. I put the question that an amount of Rs.87,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 of the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-D-Other Social Security and Welfare Programme-IV-Soldiers, Sailors' and Airmen's Board".

(The Motion was carried and demand was passed).

        The Chief Minister to move Grant No.51.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.10,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-E-Other Social Security and Welfare Programme-V-Other Programmes.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no Cut Motion. I put the question that amount of Rs.10,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 and for the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-E-Other Social Security and Welfare Programme-V-Other Programmes".

(The Motion was carried and demand was passed).

        The Minister-in-charge of Finance to move Grant No.52.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister-in-charge of Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.20,89,000 be granted to the payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "289-Relief on Account of Natural Calamities".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received two Cut Motions on this Grant. The first Cut Motion stands in the name of Mr. Fuller Lyngdoh. He is absent and as such the Cut Motion is deemed to have been withdrawn. The second Cut Motion stands in the name of Mr. Mawlot. Mr. Mawlot to move his Cut Motion.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.20,89,000 under Grant No.52, Major head "289-Relief on Account of Natural Calamities" at page 365 of the Budget be reduced by Rs.100 i.e. the amount of the whole grant of Rs.20,89,000 do stand reduced by Rs.100.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Now can you initiate a discussion.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will not take much time of the House on this grant. I will simply point out one specific grievance i.e., the amount sanctioned for ear-marked for the relief given to the persons who have been unfortunately victimised by natural calamities. For example, if there is any fire accident somewhere or the house is blown off by cyclone then the Government used to sanction some amount  of gratuitous relief to the victims. Mr. Speaker, Sir, while appreciating the readiness of the Government to help such poor persons who have unfortunately to face such incidents, it is also noted with regret that the amount sanctioned is too meagre. The amount normally sanctioned by the Government is Rs.50 maximum and Rs.25 minimum. For example, Mr. Speaker, Sir, if the fine incident takes place say at Lumdiengjri, the fellow has to submit the report at Shillong and ....

Mr. Speaker :- And that the amount of Rs.25 will be spent only for his journey. And even for his single journey that amount of Rs.25 will be which the Government sanctioned, is not sufficient even for the journey to Shillong and going back to his village.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot :- Yes Sir, that amount is not even suffering for his single journey. So, Sir, while appreciating the Government for extending such kind of relief to the people for their unforeseen calamities, I would like to suggest to the Government that the amount of grant be increased to Rs.150 or say Rs.200 maximum, which is quite reasonable. Sir, if a person has to travel for 20 to 25 kilometres he has to spend a lot of money and moreover he will have to stay for a few day in Shillong. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to suggest to the Government that at least this amount be reconsidered by the Government.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, while supporting the cut motion I also would like to speak a few words only. Sir, it seems to me that this procedure of sanctioning this grant with fixed amount has been followed by our Government since the time of Independence. And Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also do not know how the Government have fixed the amount at Rs.50 as the maximum and Rs.25 as the minimum to give relief to those unfortunate people who have lost their hearths and homes. Sir, here I would like to point out to one important matter which generally happens in the plain areas. Sir, in the plain area, the people thatched houses which cost them only Rs.25 or maximum Rs.50 and afterwards when they find that the house has become old or inconvenient, they will burn the house and ask for such relief grant from the Government. They generally do this to get the relief from the Government. But Sir, here in our State it is not so. In Khasi Hills, in Jaintia Hills and in Garo Hills no tribals will like to burn their houses just to get the relief from the Government. Therefore, Sir, if at all our Government consider it necessary to help such unfortunate people who have lost their hearths and homes, then a higher rate of amount is grant to given to such people. But if the Government think that it is not necessary to give such grants, than it is better to discontinue to grant.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Relief and Rehabilitation) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am grateful to the hon. Members for drawing the attention of the House to this important problem of natural calamities. The hon. Member has suggested to raise the amount of relief to Rs.150 or Rs.200. In this connection I may inform the House that the Government have raised this amount to Rs.100 and the Deputy Commissioners and the Sub Divisional Officers have been given power to sanction this amount. But so far s the other items are concerned, I fully appreciate the hon. Member from Pariong and would like to inform the House that regarding other aspect of the loan, the Government is not responsible to extend this loan. But in the matter of giving immediate relief to the victims of natural calamities, as I have said earlier, the Government have increased the Nongstoin to withdraw his cut motion.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion ? (Voices -- Yes, Yes) ...

        The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn.

        Now, I put the question that an amount of Rs.20,89,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges, which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "289-Relief on Account of Natural Calamities."

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

        Now Minister-in-charge of Community Services to move the Grant No.53.

Shri Grohonsing A. Marak (Minister, Community Services, etc.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.2,38,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "295-Other Social and Community Services".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.2,38,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "295-Other Social and Community Services."

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

        Now I ask the Chief Minister to move the Grant No.54.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.8,05,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "296-Secretariat Economic Service-I-Civil Department".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is not cut motion, I put the question that an amount of Rs.8,05,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "296-Secretariat Economic Services-I-Civil Department".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

        Now I ask the Minister-in-charge of Finance to move the Grant No.55.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.9,75,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "296-Secretariat Economic Services-II-Planning Board and Attached Offices".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question that an amount of Rs.9,75,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "296-Secretariat Economic Services-II-Planning Board and Attached Offices."

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

        Now I ask the Minister-in-charge of Co-operation to move Grant No.56.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah (Minister, Co-operation) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.42,70,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "298-Co-operation".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question that an amount of Rs.42,700,00 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "298-Co-operation".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

        Now I ask the Minister-in-charge to Finance to move the Grant No.56-A.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.93,26,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "299-Special and Backward Areas-C-North Eastern Areas".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question is that an amount of Rs.93,26,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "299-Special and Backward Areas-C-North Eastern Areas".

(The Motion was carried and demand was passed).

        Now I ask the Minister-in-charge of Finance to move Grant No.57.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.10,91,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "304-Other General Economic Services-I-Economic Advice and Statistics".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question that an amount of Rs.10,91,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "304-Other General Economic Services-I-Economic Advice and Statistics".

(The Motion was carried and demand was passed).

        Minister of Weights and Measures to move grant No.58.

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Weights and Measures) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.3,70,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "304-Other General Economic Services-II-Regulation of Weights and Measures".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received one cut motion which stands in the name of Shri H.E. Pohshna. As it is a policy cut and is not specific, and as the hon. Member wants to raise a discussion on the working of the Department which is not specific the cut motion is out of order. The working of the Department is not a specific thing, as the department works in all matters. So I put the question before the House, that an amount of Rs.3,70,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head "304-Other General Economic Services-II-Regulation of Weights and Measures". (The motion was carried and demand was passed)

        Minister, Finance to move Grant No.58 (A).

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.4,55,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "304-Other General Economic Services-III-Land Ceilings".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved and since there is no cut motion, I put the question that an amount of Rs.4,55,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head "304-Other General Economic Services-III-Land Ceilings". (The motion was carried and demand was passed.

        Now Minister, Agriculture to move Grant No.59.

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.2,53,18,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "305-Agriculture / 306-I-Minor Irrigation/295-Other Social and Community Services/283-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved and there is one cut motion which stands in the name of Shri H.E. Pohshna. Here of course the hon. Member wants to discuss about the unsatisfactory working of the Department in respect of irrigation scheme. You can discuss about the specific grievances, otherwise, I will have no reserve my ruling on this.

Shri H.E. Pohshna :- I will not move, Sir.

Mr. Speaker :- Mr. Edward Kurbah to move his cut motion.

Shri Edward Kurbah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.2,53,18,000 under Grant No.59, Major head "305 Agriculture/306-I-Minor Irrigation/295-Other Social Community Services/283-Housing-C. Government Residential Buildings" at page 429 of the Budget be reduced by Rs.100, i.e. the amount of the whole grant of Rs.2,53,18,000 do stand reduced by Rs.100.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved and now you can initiate the discussion.

Shri Edward Kurbah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, while moving this cut motion in this august House, I would like to express the need of the people for constructing one minor irrigation in the place in which I have mentioned here in Weilyngkut and Mawpun area. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know that the Government is trying from all sides to produce foodgrains by making check dams here and there in order to bring more food for the people of the State. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know these place very well that they are feasible for covering them into wet paddy fields. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in that area, there are two rivers, one is the Weilyngkut river and the other is the Rynli river, and if you were to put a check dam in Weilyngkut river, you can see that the whole area can be converted into a wet paddy field and the people in that area will be able to have sufficient food to feed themselves in those areas. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I feel also that if there is sufficient amount of money for making another check dam on the river Mawpun, we can see that the catchment area of both sides will be greatly benefited. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hope that since the Government is trying its best to do everything in order to increase food production, I hope that by bringing this cut motion, Government will one day send an officer concerned to make a survey to find out whether the place is feasible or not and if it is found that it is feasible, then I would like to request the Government to take prompt action and do it as soon as possible. With these few words Mr. Speaker, Sir, I move my cut motion.

Shri Upstar Kharbuli :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- Nor, Mr. Bareh, Minister, Agriculture to reply.

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very grateful to the hon. Mover of this cut motion who seems to be very interested in seeing that irrigation is also done in his own area. As you know, Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Engineering Wing of the Agriculture Department was only established recently and we only started work from 1974-75 and we already had taken up 9 projects in hand and these 9 projects are more than the technical personnel we have at present in the Department and we know that this Weilyngkut and Mawpun area and according.

Shri Edward Kurbah :- Sir, the Minister-in-charge has visited this area and he has seen.

Shri Edwingson Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have had the privilege of seeing this place because the hon. Member took me when there was conference there and both of us saw the area. But I have said the projects at hand are more than the strength of staff we have at present. Therefore we cannot investigate all the places that are feasible for irrigation. However, Mawpun is already in our list and we have already directed Agriculture Extension Officer of Mairang block to have a primary survey and after we have completed the projects that are at hand we will take up this project. In view of this I hope the hon. Member will not press his cut motion because he knows the difficulties that we are facing in the Irrigation Wing because of shortage of technical personnel. So I would request him to withdraw his cut motion since the project will be investigated in the near future.

Shri Edward Kurbah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the Minister-in-charge has promised to take up this project as soon as possible if it is feasible, I would like to withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- Has the Hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion?

        (Voices - Yes, Yes.)

        The cut motion is, with the leave of the House, withdrawn.

        Now I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.2,53,18,000, be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "305-Agriculture/306-I-Minor Irrigation/295-Other Social and Community Services/293-Housing-C Government Residential Buildings.

(The Motion was carried and demand was passed.)

        Now Grant No.60.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah (Minister, P.W.D. etc) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.20,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "306-Minor Irrigation -II-Works under E and D Wing, Public Works Department Minor Irrigation Projects."

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is not cut motion, I put the question that an amount of Rs.20,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "306-Minor-Irrigation-Works under E and D Wing, Public Works Department Minor Irrigation Projects".

(The Motion was carried and demand was passed).

        Now Grant No.61,

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Soil Water Conservation) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.1,39,08,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "307-Soil and Water Conservation and 283-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. There is one cut  motion which stands jointly in names of Shri Winstone Syiemiong and Shri Rowell Lyngdoh. It is a policy cut. It is up to them to discuss on the working of the department and perhaps it is related to the policy matter.

Shri W. Syiemiong :- I will not move.

Mr. Speaker :- So I put the question before the House that an amount of Rs.1,39,08,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come  in the course of payment during the the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "307-Soil and Water Conservation and 283-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

Grant No.62.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Border Areas Development) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.1,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1977 for the administration of  the head "308-Area Development".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received one cut motion in the name of Shri H.E. Pohshna. Here also it is a question of raising discussion on the implementation of the schemes and not on the grievances. Hence the cut motion is out of order. I put the question. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,00,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "308-Area Development".

(The motion was adopted and demand was passed).

        Grant No.63.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Animal Husbandry) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.1,07,13,200 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "310-Animal Husbandry and 283-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received two cut motions in the names of Shri Francis K. Mawlot and Shri D.N. Joshi. Shri Mawlot is absent and has informed me that he will not move his cut motion. Now, Mr. Joshi.

Shri D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.1,07,13,200 under Grant No.63, Major Head "310-Animal Husbandry and 283 - Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings" at Page 513 of the Budget be reduced by Rs.100 i.e. the amount of the whole grant of Rs.1,07,13,200 do stand reduced by Rs.100.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I will allow you if you will only raise one specific point. Perhaps you may omit the second part-lack of other facilities. You can discuss only non-creation of planned grazing reserved.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- According to the Sixth Schedule to the Constitution, grazing is under the District Council.

Mr. Speaker :- The subject falls under the Sixth Schedule but all the District Councils are under the control of the State Government. I do not say that the State Government should interfere in the working of the District Councils, but the State Government can very well advise the District Councils to undertake any kind of plans in co-operation with the Government. But there is another question. Since this particular subject is within the District Council, it will become difficult on the part of the Minister to reply off-hand. But I think so far as this point is concerned, I will allow the hon. Member just to focus the attention of the Government so that Government will be able to take up with the District Councils afterwards.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister, Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of information, may I point out that this matter was taken up with the District Council on the 31st of January this year where all the District Councils with their officers and the Government have a thorough discussion on this matter and the matter is being processed with the District Council. So in view of that, Government will not be able to reply.

Shri D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of what the Minister has said that that the matter is being processed with the three District Councils and it is now in the process of finalisation, I would request you to allow me to touch the second part.

Mr. Speaker :- It is linked up. If you are to touch the second part, it is not longer a token cut. It is out of order.

Shri D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will just point out one thing. Now the State Government has got some subjects linked up with the Department of Animal Husbandry. As the State Government is running chilling plant at Nayabunglow.

Mr. Speaker :- So far as these general matters are concerned, you have already drawn the attention of the Government during the debate on the Governor's Address and the budget discussion. I think the Government has taken note of your suggestion. If you insist on the second part of the cut motion, it is very vague and not specific and it is out of order. Since you have agreed that you will not move the first part, let me put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,07,13,200 be granted to the Minister-in-charge  to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "310-Animal Husbandry and 283-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings".

(The motion was adopted and demand was passed).

        Grant No.64.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Veterinary, etc.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.29,85,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "311-Dairy Development and 285-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since, there is no cut motion, I put the question that an amount of Rs.29,85,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "311-Dairy Development and 285-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings.".

(The motion was adopted and demand was passed).

        Grant No.65 :

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Fisheries) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.15,95,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "312-Fisheries".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received one cut motion which stands jointly in the names of Shri W. Syiemiong and Shri Rowell Lyngdoh.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.15,95,000 under Grant No.65, Major head "312-Fisheries" at page 572 of the Budget be reduced to Re.1 i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs.15,95,000 do stand reduced to Re.1

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. You can start the discussion.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have got only a few points to submit while raising this cut motion and the first thing is that so many years, now, we have been spending money on fisheries either on the expenditure of the department itself or for raising fish in the State or because the department has given grants-in-aid to the pisciculturists and other people who are interested in the development of fisheries. But then, Sir, we would like that these fisheries are developed proportionately with the amount spent. There is acute shortage of fish in the State and this is aggravated by not getting supply from other States or other country like Bangladesh. So, naturally, we find that the price of fish in this State if very high. So it seems to me that there is not much development in this particular sphere as no fish is produced from those ponds where money was spent. Therefore there should be a rethinking by Government in regard to this development of fishery. So long we have been spending money on grants-in-aid of which we used to hear a lot. In the past these grants were given indiscriminately and thus people who never have a fish pond or know how to rear fish took advantage of this scheme. Of course, now Government has become strict and they have insisted upon those people who want grants for fishery that they should construct and complete their fishery ponds first and only then grants will be given. Now there are some people in some areas who have started fishery ponds. I understand they do develop them well. This of course, is necessary as people in certain areas of the State who do not have other suitable occupation except the rearing of fish. So fishery farms are indispensable to those areas and I request Government to see that help is given to these really deserving people. Sir, certain people of certain areas now have realised that fish rearing is a very important industry and have taken to it very seriously and have tried to improve it. But, Sir, in the Budget we have seen that grants-in-aid for pisciculturists is earmarked only for Rs.1,40,000.00 This not sufficient for the whole State. In earlier years, of course, most of the money is wasted, but now people have realise the importance of development of fishery and they know how to utilise the money. That is why I say this amount is not sufficient. Whatever it is Sir, there should be rethinking on the part of the Government. Because if they went to encourage people to take up fishery as a profession, then people who want to rear fish will have to construct a pond or a dam and this will entail huge expenditure on their part. So it is impossible for them to do so, if the assistance given by Government is very meagre. But Sir, we have seen that there are many natural streams and rivers in our State. But they are not properly protected. So it would be of great help if the Government should come up with steps to protect them from people who used to poison the fishes by chemicals and also destroyed them with dynamites. By allowing such things to happen, the fishes are destroyed wholesale and the fishes could not multiply. So if Government come up with strict measures to protect our rivers and streams then fishes will increase in these rivers. This would also help to solve the problem of fish scarcity.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Sir, I would like to intervene. I will refer to Para 6 of the Sixth Schedule. (i) The District Council for an autonomous district may establish, construct, or manage primary Schools, dispensaries, markets, cattle, ponds, ferries, fisheries, roads, road transport and water-ways in the district and may, with the previous approval of the Governor, make regulations for the regulation and control thereof and, in particular, may prescribe the language and the manner in which primary education shall be imparted in the primary schools in the district.

Mr. Speaker :- The hon. Member spoke about the destruction of fishes by dynamite. The District Council is competent to make laws and regulations and the part played by the Government is limited. But of course, the Government has to help the District Council because when such offenders are detected they have to enlist the help of the Government with regard to the police and also in dealing with the case. But this is for Government to consider.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In fact just now I understand from the discussion that the State Government has got a limited part to play, but then then I cannot agree that the Government can shift the responsibility as everything comes under the State Government. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have seen of course that the District Councils, are managing fishery ponds in so many places say in Jaintia Hills, Khasi Hills and Garo Hills.

Mr. Speaker :- I think the Chief Minister has raised a pertinent point that the District Council has more power in this regard which I do not quite understand. The District Council can do a lot of things and the Government also can do a lot of things and it is not for Government to find a scape-goat, because as I have said before, the District Council has to come to the Government when they need the police and so on. The Government has got to play its part. We are bringing this Grant which has a particular reference that the Government is trying to improve fisheries in the State. But the other point for protection of rivers and streams does not fall within the purview of the State.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think Government has a part to play and in consultation with the District Council, effective steps could be taken for the protection of these natural rivers and streams. Sir, we also see that the Forest Department also makes use of these rivers and streams and if both these Departments coordinate properly. I think these streams and rivers could be effectively protected. Also, Sir, in consultation with the District Council, we can persuade the villagers who are living by the banks of these rivers and streams to exercise their jurisdiction over such and such an area. So these villagers can be made to act like sentinels over these rivers and the Government can also by notification declare that the river flowing though such and such a place is within the jurisdiction of such and such a village. This of course, could be done in consultation with the District Council. In this way, Sir, the number of fishes in these rivers and streams could be made to increase.

        Sir, another point I would like to state is with regard to the fishes which come up from Bangladesh to breed in our rivers. Previously fishes come from Bangladesh up stream to our rivers for breeding. But now due to many disturbances in the form of poisoning, bombing and netting the fishes do not stay for breeding any more but go away down the rivers to Bangladesh. So Sir, if we do not disturb these rivers these fishes will come and breed and increase manifold and thus revenue of the State will improve and the people will be benefited.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- But the revenue goes to the District Council, not to the State.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- I think instead of spending money on those wells and ponds it will be much better if our Government spends some money in the protection of our rivers and streams which the nature has given to us. With these few words Sir, I move my Cut motion.

*Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the cut motion with certain emphasis on what the hon. mover of this cut motion has already spoken. The grant before the House is to improve fishery by the State Government. We all know that the State Government has got a Fishery Department and for this, a huge sum of money has been asked for under this head for the improvement of fishery here in this State. Sir, on this subject the Chief Minister has also expressed that the revenue we derive from this Fishery Department goes to the District Council.

Mr. Speaker :- That also with the approval of the Governor, which means the Government.

Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh :- The revenue partly goes to the District Council and partly to the Government. There is a lot of scope here, in fact,, for the Government to spend this money now or later on. If this Government will continue to be there, fishery development can be geared up and improved in the State. With few modifications on what the hon. mover has just state, I would like to suggest to the Government that it is feasible to improve those wells and ponds here in these hills and it is not expensive if our Government which used to give grants through the blocks to the individuals for improving fishery by this concerned department itself. They are improving their fingerlings also in their farms and they used to supply these fingerlings to those people. Thus, Sir, with proper supervision of the department in the utilisation of those grants, I believe there will be a lot of improvement of fishery in this State of ours. But so far as things stands at present, there is no proper supervision at all. People understand the Government is giving grants and so they come to the Department with applications. After getting the grant at random, they will just construct one small pond and spend certain amount of money with that grant given by the department and thereby waste considerable portion of public money. For instance, a big pond has been constructed by the department itself there at Cherrapunjee. If you go there in the dry months you will find that there is no water at all only a long wall, at Chinese wall has been constructed but there is no water at all. Everybody will agree with me that this is only a big show to the other people of outside world whenever they come there. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, here I want to point out that in this cut motion there is every possibility to improve the Fishery Department in the State by giving help to the people with proper supervision. We have got narrow strips of lands where we do not have to put a dam and automatically it can be made into a well or pond. There is no need to dig the earth as they are doing in the plains. If you want to catch fishes, well that pond is to be dried up again by pumping out the water but here, it is easy with proper supervision. Therefore, I would suggest that more supervisory staff must be appointed in order to strengthen the department so that this amount which has been shown here in this grant will not be wasted.

        Another aspect is as as the hon. mover has stated Sir, that the attention of the Government has no doubt been drawn to the fact that sometimes I have seen those Publicity staff have introduced those films or cinema show to the people. Certain films have been shown about the improvement of fishery in Japan. It is really a very good thing and I appreciate the Publicity Department which has taken this initiative to publicize such things. Japan is the great producer of fishes not only because it has been surrounded by the water and, naturally, fishes have collected there. But the economy of Japan has served a lot for the improvement of fishery through the efforts of the Government. Not that they are taking fishes from the ocean. But we have seen in the film that they did that through hatchery. What they do? They collect the fishes during the breeding season and they even keep them in a well or lake or pond already constructed.. Even they catch them from rivers in the breeding season and keep them in one place in a farm they have constructed. After breeding has taken place, they fertilized eggs were collected and later on they become fingerlings and were transferred to the hatchery and after the hatchery has been hatched to certain extent, they were then fit to be let loose in the rivers and streams, lakes, etc. Sometimes, they take those fingerlings to the river or lake they have constructed. So Sir, there is a scope here. In the olden days when we were boys, in our place, I remember our rivers and streams were full of fishes. We used to catch fishes and after all, the people from Villages, used to live on fish only, we never have to kill cows for our curry. We never have to go to market to collect a little quantity of meat like we used to do today. Whenever we go to our paddy fields, we used to catch them in the lakes and river. But now, we have seen there is no fish at all. If there is, only a few and limited number. Why? Because our people are destroying fishes by whatever means. Explosives are being used for killing fish instead of building roads and blasting of rocks. stone, etc. by the P.W.D. They have used a lot to destroy fishes in the rivers by this method of blasting. Also with copper sulphate instead of using it for medicinal purposes. or for painting or protection of insects on the buildings they have used it for killing fishes. Not only this copper sulphate, this D.D.T. they get it from the Malaria Department. They used this D.D.T. in the rivers. So, Sir, if at all the State Government takes the initiative and if there is co-operation between the Government and the District Councils, certain laws which have so far not enabled the authorities to catch the culprits. In fact, if the Government and the District Council co-operate with each other, I think while the Government improves the fingerlings, the District Councils, on the other hand, can make some laws for protection of the fisheries with the help, again, of the Government's Police Department But there is no co-operation between these two and we have heard the other day that the District Council could not get armed protection with regard to forests. If at all the money earmarked for that purpose can be properly utilised, that  understand and co-operation between the Government and the District Counci8ls should be there and so the purpose of improvement of fisheries in this State will be served. I would, therefore, suggest that, as the Chief Minister himself has praised that there is a lot from the District Councils' side to improve fisheries, on the Government's side also money can be provided in the Budget. But if the Minister is ignorant of the improvement of fisheries, I may propose him to go to Japan to see how they are improving fisheries there.

(Mr. Deputy Speaker in the Chair)

*Shri W. Syiemiong :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in supporting the cut motion moved by the hon. Member from Mawkyrwat I would also like to add some points. We all know that fishery is a very important subject considering that many countries of the world depend solely, or rather their economy, on fishery. So we can understand how important this subject is for the betterment of any State's economy. But Sir, I regret very much to say that considering the amount that has been allotted to this particular Department this very year, I think fishery has not received that much of important in this State of ours because the amount is only Rs.15 lakhs. It is of secondary importance, it seems, in this State. As a matter of fact, we have heard that our Governments officials have been telling the people to try their level best to develop whatever resources there are in this State so that their economy can be improved. To improve one of these resources in fishery and to that extent I would say that we, on this side, have often encouraged our people to start their own ponds to develop fishery so that individual economy can be improved. But as it is at present do not get the sad state of affairs as those people who want to go for fishery do not get the money, from the Government, as assistance. As we all know, the poor people of the interior cannot take this up without assistance, whether monetary or supply of fingerlings, from the Department. But then, as I understand, this very year in many areas, especially in the upland areas of the Khasi Hills are people do not get whatsoever help from the Department. The areas under the Block Development of Mawryngkneng, Mylliem and Mawphlang do not received anything from the Fishery Department. In fact, whatever help is given is lop-sided. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I do not urge that more money should be given to certain areas only, I say that certain amount of money should also go for the development of fisheries in the upland regions also because, in these areas, there are certain types of fish which we are quite good for rearing in these hills like trout through which we can develop our economy. So I would urge upon the Government to kindly change and have a re-thinking on the Fishery Department so that fisheries can be developed properly and uniformly in the whole State.

Shri H.E. Pohshna :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, I rise to support the cut motion. Although I am very friendly with the Minister-in-charge, but in view of the rise of prices of fish in the market, I would say that, as it now appears, there is something wrong in the Fishery Department. I fully agree with the hon. Members who have spoken before me but I do not wish to say that the Minister is ignorant. I think he is alright; but it is the Department which is quite ignorant. Why I say that is because a huge amount of money had been spent every year, lakhs and lakhs of rupees and that all these amounts went down the drains because many of the dams constructed were washed away by flood water. I would also like to acquaint the Minister-in-charge with the ignorance of the Department in so far as the Jowai Lake is concerned. The pond has been fenced and improvements have been made but the more the fencing the lesser the fish and the more money spent, the lesser the fish (Interruptions).

Shri B.B. Shallam (Minister of State, Border Areas Development) :- But I saw plenty of fish.

Shri H.E. Pohshna :- I come to the distribution of grants for fisheries. In other districts, as I understand, if there is any amount of money to be spent, they will consult the Block but in Jowai they would simply call the fish dealers and form some sort of a consultative committee with only two or three persons from the Bazar and then distribute the grants. Therefore, Sir, in spite of the fact that the Government appears to be sincere in spending the amount every year, the very fact that every year the price of the fish goes higher and higher is quite reasonable that we are compelled to blame the Fishery Department. In my opinion, it would be better that all the staff of this Department be deputed for re-training and pending completion of their training, all the amounts involving lakhs and lakhs of rupees be spent by Government for purchasing fish or dry fish from Bombay and other places and distribute to the people. By spending Rs.15 lakhs this year, how many fish should we expect to get from those who do not know how to put it to good use. Why I say this is because this particular Department does not know that there are vast areas in Mynso (Laughter) where we can develop fisheries and before the member from Mynso opposes it Sir, I say that the area has never been surveyed by the Fishery Department. If at all they go there, they will go to the houses of the M.D.C. or M.L.A. and do nothing. So, I would request that in spite of the fact that they are very very friendly with the Minister-in-charge I request him to see that such huge amounts of money should be properly utilised. I do not mean corruption or misuse but I use the very word used by the Members from Pariong - 'ignorance'. With these few words, Sir, I support the cut motion.

Shri F.K. Mawlot :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in supporting the cut motion moved by my friend from Mawkyrwat, I would like to pose a question and only one question to the Minister-in-charge as to the management of the Ward Lake. As far as I understand the Ward Lake does not fall under the purview of the management of the Fishery Department. But many a time I have witnessed the catching of fish from the Ward Lake by the Fishery Department. I do not know what is the purpose of the Fishery Department catching fish from the Ward Lake. And, I was thinking that the fishes which were aught from the Ward Lake are for the purpose of breeding. But Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, even for the purpose of breeding how is it that the catch was made very often and what has happened to the fishes which they caught in the previous years? They have caught last year and again they caught in the next year. I request the Minister-in-charge to state categorically as to the number of eggs one fish lays at a time (Laughter). And, out of those eggs which the fish lays how many are hatched and how many exist? So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I request the Minister-in-charge to give us the number of fish caught from the Ward Lake year after year and what is the number of fishes that were caught and the sale proceeds of those which were sold in the open market or private firm? And if there is no sale proceed, we would like to know the full position. With these few words, I support the cut motion.

*Shri D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while supporting the cut motion, I would like to make a few observations only. Sir, for fish we require water and without water I think fish cannot be brought up. Meghalaya though blessed with plenty of rain does not have facility from creating the farms for conserving the water and whatever water is there that also is being exploited not for the benefit of the people but against the interest of the people due to the wanton destruction of the forests and due to this wanton destruction of forests water is not conserved. Therefore, new even if afforestation schemes are taken up, it will take time for them to make sure that things will improve. Therefore, I want and I suggest that in the Upper Shillong ridges beyond the cantonment areas there is a big area and a big dam be constructed there so that it will serve the purpose of fishes as well as serving the purpose of supply and water specially during the lean period in Shillong. There is a big plain area and it can be converted into a big dam if some money is used in the same pattern as had been done in Aizawl where water can be conserved there and various types of fishes may be reared there -  I do not know anything about fish because I am not a fish eater. But I want that fish industry also should grow so that it will help to a great extent, as one of my friends the previous day said, that the killing of cows is not a much because it was supplemented by the fishes. But now due to the shortage of fish, the killing of cows is on the increase. Therefore, I want that this kind of industry should be properly looked into and facilities should be created for the fishes to live in.

        Again we have created another dam here - I mean, the MSEB has created a dam down in Barapani. Here this Department kept a stock of various types of fingerlings which were brought from different parts of India and abroad also and proper care should be taken that they breed well so that fishes could be utilised properly. I have seen our people from Shillong go downs to the lake at Barapani every now and then and without any proper check or restrains, there is a rampant killing of fish and this rampant killing of fish should, not be allowed. Let the fish also increase their population - they do not believe in Family Planning, let them breed and let them increase in number. I do not say killing should not be allowed but I am sure the Government is very indifferent in this regard and our people have got no sense in this regard. Often time, I say most of the people from Shillong go down to Barapani especially in weekends for the purpose of fishing. I suggest that conditions should be created so that water is conserved so that we will be able to get pools whereby fish breeding could be done. With these few words, I support the cut motion.

*Shri H. Hadem :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand to oppose the cut motion. In view of the position as has already been clarified by the Chief Minister, this matter, it seems, comes under the purview of the District Council. In fact, the cut motion here. Sir, as proposed in the notice is to express dissatisfaction on the inability of the Department to develop fishery but during the deliberations, we find that it was to preserve the fishes in most of the villages in the natural rivers. But Sir, it is very clearly stated in the Constitution that it is for the District Councils to make rules regarding the development of fisheries and so far as the District Council of Khasi Hills and the District Council of Jaintia Hills are concerned, they have made regulations for the preservations of fishes in the rivers, Sir, there is no problem uptil now. It is not true that these regulations passed by the District Councils are not competent enough for the protection of the fishes. Secondly, Sir, some of the Members have gone to the extent of saying that it would contribute towards the economic development of the State enormously as is the case with Japan. Sir, comparing Japan, with such a small State like ours amounts to comparing heaven with earth. These Japanese are inside the ocean. (loud laughter). What I mean to say is this. Japan island are stretched deep into the ocean and fishes are quite plenty in the ocean. But this is not case with us. I regret to say that we are far away from the ocean. Sir, one of the hon. Members has requested me to come to his rescue by not opposing this cut motion. The hon. Member from Nongtalang has stated that the Department has never surveyed these areas in Mynso but I do not know whether he had been there and if so for how many days or how many months otherwise how can he say that the area has not been surveyed. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he had the opportunity to become a Member of the Advisory Committee for recommending grants for fisheries in the District during 1964-65 but at that time he never said that this grant was useless or no worthwhile. But I wonder how he could be so selfish now to say that in Mynso area there is no fish.

Shri H.E. Pohshna :- At that time the scarcity of fish was not so much and the price of fish was quite reasonable.

Shri H. Hadem :- Then I should say that there is no scarcity of fishes there even today and as such the question raised by him at this stage does not arise. Moreover, I would like to know the position of the Ward Lake although the hon. Members are trying to convert my time into question hour by putting so many questions. I would like to know the condition of the Ward Lake. I heard that during Assam time the hon. Members of the Assembly used to relish on fish from this lake (laughter).

        But we are almost coming to an end of our Budget Session yet we could not enjoy or had any opportunity to have the taste of fish from this Ward Lake. (loud laughter)

Shri H.E. Pohshna :- It shows that there is scarcity of fish and the hon. Member has to take his food outside. (loud laughter)

Shri H. Hadem :- I take serious exception to this. Taking food outside is just like feeding cats and dogs. The hon. Member has actually fed me outside. Another point is about the suggestion made by the hon. Member from Cantonment for a fishery pond in Smit. I don't think it would be feasible. I do not know whether the hon. Member knows or not that there is is acute scarcity of water in Smit. Of course, there is enough possibility in Barapani lake and the Leader of the House has rightly expressed that the constitutional position between District Council and State Government shall have to be ascertained. It has been mentioned in the Budget Speech as well as in the Governor's Address that the Government is intending to develop fishery at Barapani with the approval of the District Council. It has been clearly stated with the approval of the District Council. It has been clearly stated that the main responsibility for improvements of fisheries rests with the respective District Councils and the Government can only help the District Council with small amount of grants. With all these discussion on this subject I hope the Member who have supported this cut motion will later on reconsider and withdraw what they have spoken and I would request the Chair.

Shri D.N. Joshi :- The request for the Member amounts to request for withdrawal of cut motion. But this request should come from the Minister not from the Member.

Shri H. Hadem :- Sir, I have not requested to withdraw the cut motion. I said to reconsider and withdraw what they have spoken.

Shri H.E. Pohshna :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am almost convinced by the hon. Member who has spoken just now. But while throwing the responsibility on the District Council may I know from him whether the District Council is empowered exclusively?

Shri H. Hadem :- With your permission, Sir, I would request the hon. Member to go through the regulation passed by the respective District Councils.

Shri Grosswell Mylliemngap :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am very happy that this particular Department has evinced the interest of many hon. Members. While opposing this cut motion against this particular Department, first of all, I feel that this Department has been very much neglected whereas there is lot of scope for its improvement. Therefore, I personally feel that the budget allocation of Rs.15 lakhs and odd as has been stated by the hon. Member from Nongspung is too meagre for this Department considering the various activities it has to do in improving the economy of the people of the State. It is a fact, as stated by the hon. Member from Mynso-Raliang that even the natural fisheries, if effective measures to check and  control the wanton destruction by different means are being adopted at least there is a good scope to supplement the diet of our people and improve their economy. As I have stated that this amount is too meagre considering the functions of the Department as it is at present. The Department does not have proper staff specially at the executive level which is really handicapped in Jowai is empowered only as a disbursing and drawing officer for pay and allowances whereas he is not authorised or not delegated with any other financial powers. I do not know much about the officers in Garo Hills, but I feel that this Department is very much understaffed. Besides that Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in order to preserve the natural fisheries of our State, we have to guard the rivers and in guarding the rivers we have to post guards at different rivers where there is scope of maintaining natural fisheries. In this respect, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Department also has a heavy responsibility in checking on the wanton destruction of fishes specially in Umiam Lake. We have seen a lot of boats and I do not know whether they are authorised or unauthorised. But they have been operating for catching fishes for months together and the people are making it as their own profession. I do not know whether these people are authorised or they have escaped the notice of the Department. It is a fact also that co-ordination of the District Council with the Staff Government is necessary. But it is also admitted that the legislation which the District Council is having at present is not adequate enough to cope with this problem. Therefore, I feel, that the Department should come forward with some amendments of the present legislation. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is also a fact that the Department has done so many works. We have seen wherever we go, for example, there is a fishery pond at Jowai near the D.Cs office and I have seen this pond for years together. But I do not know why uptil now no proper development and improvement is made of this pond. I feel that the Department should speed up this work specially when the place where it is situated is such tat it is like an eye sore to all the people going to Jowai especially on bazar days.

        Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is also a fact that a lot of money had been spent for this particular Department during the time of Assam Government and also during the time of the our own Government. But the expenditure and the amount spend were piece-meal in a nature. They take up a lot of fishery ponds and projects in different places at different altitude but no substantial work could be done because the financial assistance given by the Department is too meagre which completely spoiled and damaged the interest of all fish-breeders. Besides, that, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the development of fishery in our State is also very very lop-sided. I consider this is because there is no proper survey made by the Department. So, I feel that if the Department is really eager to develop fishery industry, proper survey should be conducted at those place where there is a feasibility of constructing ponds. For the development of fishery industry, the Government should also come in a big way so that there will be substantial development in this particular industry. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, two or three hon. Members have made a reference to Japanese fisheries and fortunately enough I had my personal experience in visiting some of the Japanese paddy fields and in Japan the paddy fields are combined with the fishery ponds. The cultivators maintain fishes also in the same place where they are cultivating paddy. It is so simple that with no expenditure at all, the economy of the cultivators is enhanced by about 10 percent additional income. What they used to do. They normally keep the fishes in their paddy fields for about 10 to 12 months together with paddy plants. When the paddy is harvested, these fishes are dragged to a particular place where they have dug a little deeper and then they harvest the paddy and after harvesting they again block the water and again the water level is raised and fishes are scattered around the paddy field. Sir, it is estimated that these fishes in 10 to 12 months time weight about half a Kg. each. I know that the Fishery Department has a great responsibility, if it has to take up this particular item with the cultivators to encourage them to practice this type of Pisciculture in all the paddy fields where there is perennial source of water. This is quite possible and I have seen that there is very good scope in Garo Hills, Jaintia Hills and also in Khasi Hills. But the cultivators should be educated in this line in order to supplement their income by adopting this pisciculture industry in their paddy fields. With these few words, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I feel that the budget allocation under Grant No.65 is too meagre. But considering the inadequacy of staff in the Department I vehemently oppose the cut motion.

Shri Grohonsing A. Marak (Minister-in-charge of Fisheries etc.) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am grateful to the hon. Mover of this cut motion for bringing many important suggestions to the notice of the Department of Fishery. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as the Hon'ble Chief Minister has informed to this august House earlier and we all know that in this State of ours the land, the rivers and the beels are under the control of the District Council. If it is like other States in India, to lay the Government of Meghalaya would have earned revenue, I suppose, not less than 15 or 20 lakhs of rupees every year. But, fortunately or unfortunately as I said earlier, all the rivers, beels and lakes and land are under the control of the District Council. I think Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if we really study the difficulties of the administration at the District Level and the State level, the hon. Mover will agree with me that if the State Government is to undertake certain project in certain area, and if the State Government is to move to get a plot of land in certain part of our State, it will take months and years together to come to the agreement between the District Council and the State Government. As for example, Sir, after the achievement of our State, I mean full-fledged State, this Department has planned to start one pisciculture farm in each district. But uptil now it is said to say that we have not been able to get a plot of land. As in Garo Hills, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you yourself know clearly that five miles before reaching Tura, this Department has purchased one plot of land at Digri-shirang. It took this Department about more than two years to come to final agreement. But we are thankful to them that it come has come to our possession now, and Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have started digging out nursery tanks etc. Again, another difficulty Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, which I would like to point out for the information of the Mover of the cut motion is about the Barapani Umiam lake. Of course, I am glad to know that recently an agreement has been made that this Department will be able to utilise the Umiam Lake which is very near to Shillong. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think the hon. Members of this august House thought before that this Department is negligible. But now I find today after four years that the cut motion has been made against the Department knowing the importance of this Department and I am glad for that Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am glad to know the interest of the hon. Members of this august House to enhance the development of pisciculture in the State. Whatever suggestions, whatever information the hon. Members have given today, I have noted them down and the feasibility of all the suggestions will be studied together with the Department and the expert. And briefly, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform the House that what this Department has done in the past and what this Department is doing at present and what this Department will do in future.

        Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Department has taken up the objective and strategy of the scheme to enhance fish production in the State, supply of good quantity fish seeds to both Departmental farms and private tanks is a necessity. To meet this requirement it is proposed to construct more fish seed production and distribution centres and also to encourage the public to take up pisciculture and culturing up all available water areas in the State. This schemes also aim at imparting training to personnel in advance technology of pisciculture to conserve the culture of fish in rivers and streams etc. from indiscriminate destruction by explosives etc. The Department has introduced the Fishery Act which provides for punishment to those resorting to indiscriminate destruction.

        Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform the House, through you that this Department found it necessary to set up one Research Farm or institute at Mawpun to find out the adaptability of fishes in the high altitudes and cold water areas and this work is also progressing well.

        Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, many hon. Members have pointed out to the inefficiency and ignorance of this Department. So, I would like to inform that whatever staff we have got at present are trained from the different parts of the country. The Department, since the inception of the State, has been deputing the employees of different categories for training in different fishery institutions in the country in order to equip them with necessary expertise for successful implementation of fishery schemes.

        Now again, I would like to inform the hon. Members about the fish seed production and demonstration centres. We all know that the supply of fish is inadequate in our State. We had to ask and request the neighbour States like Assam, Bengal etc. So, under this schemes also it is proposed that one fish farm can be set up in each district and sub division to cater to the  need of fish seeds more effectively. The Department had been able to erect recently more fish farms, viz., at Simsanggiri, Digrichiring areas and Tasek Lake in Garo hills and Kyrdemkulai in Khasi Hills. We have released 20,000 fingerlings at Ward Lake and Kyrdemkulai in Khasi Hills. This year we have got a little higher amount so that we can utilise it properly to enhance fish seeds in those fish farms. Some of the hon. Members also said that the money which has been earmarked has been misused or spent unnecessarily. Here, I would like to inform that this Department last year set up one Advisory Committee for sanctioning the grant to each and every pisciculturists. According to the rules, the inspecting branch of the Department will go to each and every pisciculturists who has put in an application, and they will measure and after that they will provide Financial assistance after a thorough scrutiny by the Department as well, as the Advisory Committee which has been constituted in each district under the Chairmanship of the respective Deputy Commissioner. Sir, regarding the distribution of fingerlings and fish seed, last year we have in the Government farm in the Ward Lake we have released 10,000 numbers of fingerlings, in Hydari Park 1,400 at Kyrdemkulai, 60,000 at Mawpun 1,400 in Tasek Lake 27,850 and at Fish Dale 25,000 numbers, the total comes to 1,25,650 numbers.

        Some hon. Members have pointed out to the preservation of natural fish in the rivers and streams. Here I would like to inform the hon. Members, through you Sir, that last year, in Khasi Hills we have constructed flexible sausage dams and repairs (1) Khasi Hills Wahdienglieng, Umran, Umsamlem and Mawrong (2) In Jaintia Hills, Lamynchi and repair of the existing dam at Treiongriang. Then (3) Garo Hills, repair of the existing flexible dam at Rongram and Ganool.

        Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Department has also attempted to start trout culture to introduce exotic fishes in the streams and reservoirs of the State. As you know, trout fish could survive only in high altitude like Kashmir, Himachal Pradesh and North Bengal, Arunachal and in such kind of altitudes. Here, according to Dr. Mallick who came to visit on deputation by the Government of India it was recommended that in Upper Shillong, trout fish could survive. So, I and the Superintendent of Fisheries have been to Kashmir to contact and get fingerlings of trout fish so that we can start in our Shillong Peak Lake, but unfortunately, uptil now I have received no reply from any counterpart in Jammu and Kashmir Government and we are still pursuing the matter with the Jammu and Kashmir Government. And we hope to get some trout fingerlings from this Government.

        As I said, these are the activities of this department which have been done and are being done and will be done. Regarding what the hon. Members have suggested that fish is coming from outside the State, it is correct. Since the department cannot produce any fish for the benefit of the people, they have to bring fish from outside. But in the fifth plan, we have provided some money for marketing and transportation of fish. It is proposed to take up marketing and transporting of fish within the State. The scheme aims at transportation of fish from surplus areas to deficit areas. Construction of godowns, cold storages, and ice van would be taken up. But uptil now, at this state we have been able to do only the work of transportation of fish seeds to the local pisculturists. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I said, I have already noted the valuable suggestions given by the hon. Members to this august House and I will discuss with officers of the departments and expert pisciculturists so that the sound suggestion will be implemented by the Government. Many members wanted to know about the position of the Ward Lake. Sir, in the Ward Lake, fish belongs to the Fishery Department, water belongs to the Public Health Engineering Department and land belongs to Revenue Department. That much only I can say about Ward Lake. Sir, with this information may I request the hon. mover of the cut motion to withdraw his cut motion.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I put a question to the Minister? What are the sale proceeds of the fish caught from the Ward Lake?

Shri Grohonsing A. Marak (Minister, Fisheries) :- No fish from the Ward Lake is sold. The fish in the Ward Lake is only for breeding, because for one male fish the department used to catch four female fishes (Laughter) ...

Shri Francis K. Mawlot :- We would like to know after breeding whether all these fish were eaten up by the department or sold to the public.

Shri Grohonsing A. Marak (Minister, Fisheries) :- Mr. Lyngdoh, the hon. Member from Pariong said something about stripping of fish. We have not been able to create such kind of stripping laboratories like Jammu and Kashmir or West Bengal. After breeding, some of the fish have been kept there but those who have got little injured were would.

Shri Francis K. Mawlot :- So, we want to know the sale proceed of those which have sustained injuries.

Shri Grohonsing A. Marak (Minister, Fisheries) :- I do not know the sale proceed. It may be a small amount.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- We are glad that the Minister has assured that he has noted down the suggestions. So, we would expect that it will not end only in noting down, but that they will be implemented not only for the protection of natural rivers but the price will go down. Moreover, we should now also the catches from the fishery ponds of the Government fisheries and because of the assurances of the Minister, I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion. (Voices - Yes, yes). The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn.

        Now I put the question. The question is that an amount of Rs.15,95,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "312-Fisheries".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).


Statement by Minister

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I make a statement? This morning I made a statement regarding water supply scheme for Mawngap, Mawphlang and Marbisu. I would like to clarify my statement. The Department had submitted a scheme of Rs.47 lakhs with the maintenance cost of over Rs.2 lakhs per year. In view of the high cost of maintenance the Finance Department had sought clarification from the P.H.E. whether the people concerned are in a position to bear this cost of maintenance. Accordingly, the matter was examined by P.H.E. Department and even the District Councils also were consulted on 31st January last. The matter is being processed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Grant No.66 :

Shri Grohonsing A. Marak (Minister, Forests) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move, that an amount of Rs.77,37,000 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "313-Forests".

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received one cut motion which stands in the name of Shri H.E. Pohshna.

Shri H.E. Pohshna :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provisions of Rs.77,37,000 under Grant No.66, Major head "313-Forests" at page 586 of the Budget be reduced by Rs.100 i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs.77,37,000 do stand reduced by Rs.100.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved. You can raise the discussion.

Shri H.E. Pohshna :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while moving this cut motion, I shall be very very brief and although the cut motion refer to a very big matter of deserving some portions of the Narpuh forests, yet I am to request the Government to give special consideration of the conditions and situations which have compelled me to move this cut motion. Sir, with the coming into being of the State of Meghalaya, and the conditions prevailing in the other side of the border and also the present situation with regard to the permission for jhumming in pan leaves given to the people of Jaintia Hills who are residing in Cachar District, we have seen that a large number of people are coming back to Jaintia Hills especially those who are living in the border areas. While speaking on this particular subject, I am to express that I cannot help exposing the things, the matters which are happening in the low lands bordering the reserve forests in many places. The Narpuh Reserve Forests lies in the south of Jaintia Hills in Meghalaya and stretches right from Malidar stream to Pasaduwar and for the last ten years the people living there, whether authorised or unauthorised have started cultivation in the slopes on the border of Bangladesh. Some of those who cultivate the area get their permission from the Dolois, and some from the District Council and some of their own accord and they are compelled to do so due to their economic condition. It is a fact that the forest is very dense and full of wild elephants, tigers and other wild animals. These areas have so far not been visited by the staff of the Forest Department. So to say whether these people are encroachers or have cultivated the land without permission is not very correct. These people have been doing their cultivation here for the last five or ten years and there are some villages the names of which I would like to mention here. Take the case of Hingaria, Lejri and other villages.

        Previously there were no villages here but now there are villages of about fifty houses, 100 houses and 180 houses. The same is the case with Huroi which is just on the border of Narpuh Forest Reserve and Bangladesh. The number of houses is about 180 houses.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- In the forest forest !

Shri H.E. Pohshna :- Yes, in the reserve forest. I would like to refer to one village Lejri. The other day the Forest Department were requesting the Deputy Commissioner and the Superintendent of Police for arresting the Deputy Commissioner  and the Superintendent of Police for arresting the headman of the village. Permission was granted and the headman along with some villagers are now in the hazat. There are also many other cases right from Malidar to Umiang which is all along the border of Cachar District and Bangladesh. In this case the Divisional Forest Officer have submitted a report stating that these people have encroached the reserve forest and action should be taken against them. So these people will have to be evicted without considering whether it is legal or illegal. Therefore, in order to avoid harassing our problem who have cultivated the land, they should not be treated like criminal but something should be done on the part of the Government by deserving some portion of the forest for the people so that they can live there. When I say this I am not encouraging encroachment or trespass in the reserve forest, but the time is also very opportune to consider this. Because if these people want land for cultivation they cannot get lands in the upper regions of Jaintia Hills. Also there is no land for them in the boundary of Mikir Hills and if they go there they are bound to have complications and if they go outside Jaintia Hills then I do not know what will be their fate.

        Sir, another fact I would like to state is that the Government through the Forest Department have recommended that those big old trees in the reserve forest will be cut and utilised by the Industries Department. Since these trees are to be cut, I do not see any reason why some portion of the land could not be dereserved for these people. It is high time that we look into the feasibility and possibility of this. Moreover, Sir, in these areas there are flat lands which could be converted into paddy fields for cultivation and it will be convenient for these people as they are living in the border areas. With these few words, Sir, I would request the Government to consider this problem very seriously because the economic condition of these people is very bad and they are facing great hardships.

Mr. Speaker :- Ignorance of the law is no excuse and since the cut motion seeks to encourage the breaking of the law, the cut motion is out of order. Now let me put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.7,37,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head "313 - Forests".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

        Minister-in-charge of Community Development to move Grant No.67.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister Community Development) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor. I beg to move that an amount of Rs.95,77,000.00 be granted to the Minister in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head - "2830-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings and 288-Social Security and Welfare".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received one cut motion which stands jointly in the names of Shri Winstone Syiemiong and Shri Rowell Lyngdoh. Anyone can move.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.95,77,000 under Grant No.67 Major head - "314-Community Development-283-Government Residential Buildings and 288-Social Security and Welfare" at page 611 of the Budget be reduced to Rs.100 i.e. the amount of the whole grant of Rs.95,77,000 do stand reduced to Re.1/-

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved now you can initiate the discussions.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would be very brief on this Community Development subjects, as I had the occasion earlier to discuss it during the budget discussion. We have discussed and I have made a plea that it is really necessary that we should pay more importance to Community Development. The founder of this Department who was the Father of the Nation, has laid down the principles of village economy and self-help and he had seen the conditions of the rural people. Therefore, Sir, it is very much essential now in Meghalaya that we should still encourage and pay more importance to this subject. It is only the Community Development Blocks and the Department of Community Development which are always in touch with the rural people, whether big or small. But Sir, for so many years now, we have been discussing about the ineffectiveness and poor performance of this Department in the matter of implementation of all the schemes through the block agencies. No doubt, there was poor performance on the part of the officers in the block level during the last few years and that is the reason why we cannot develop. Now, it is important that the people have realised the need for development. Earlier, the people even did not like to part with their land to be used for developmental purposes. But now they are in readiness to part with their land for that purpose. Sir, what I want to project here is that in this Community Development Departments, we have got so many Centrally sponsored schemes like the Crash Scheme and Special Nutrition Programme. These are really very important in so far as they give employment and benefit to the people. Especially, the Special Nutrition Programme has done a lot of good to the people, specially to the children but it has been given only on an experimental basis to encourage the people to use right food at a right place and at right age. Sir, in respect of the Crash Scheme which we have implemented during the last few years, we would have expected that there must have been tangible development in our State, but it is needless to say that the implementing agencies like the Block Development Officers and other have not implemented this scheme in a manner that it is expected. Sir, referring to the selection of works under this scheme, many of the Block Development Officers did not at all consult either the B.D.C or its members, it may be that during those days, they have consulted the Chairman who happened to be the D.C. of the district. But for instance, in the Mawkyrwat Development Block the Block Development Officer did not even consult the members of the of the B.D.C., before selecting works under the scheme. Therefore, random selection was done and many works have been selected while they cannot implement them properly. A lot of public money has been wasted and the scheme could not give any benefit to the people out of those roads constructed since they cannot be used either by vehicles or pedestrians and money has been exhausted. Therefore, Sir, I say that there was random selection because no consultation has been made. Moreover, Sir, we have seen in the Development Block of Mawkyrwat, there are two fishery schemes under the Crash Scheme. It is understood that the Block Development Officer during the last few years, I do not remember which year, has given a completion report or certificate to the effect that the two fishery schemes which cost more or less about one lakh of rupees has been completed. But physically, we have seen that only one has been completed whereas in the report of the Auditor General of India itself, it has been shown that the Government have indicated that two fishery ponds were completed in the District of Khasi Hills. Only these two Fishery wells have been included in the Crash Scheme, which shows a very sad state of affairs because implementation was more done properly. In the report it has been indicated that the two schemes were completed whereas actually only one has been completed - The other one had not even started, may be the Block may start this year and I do not know whether they have money for its completion or extension of this scheme. Therefore, Sir, I would request the Government to kindly look into this matter to find out who is responsible for this selection and implementation of this scheme which could not give any benefit to the people. Sir, we understand that the scheme was meant for giving employment to the rural people in the form of labour charges and other daily wages. But then in certain places the Block Development Officer had allotted the work to some contractors and not to the local people and only few of them were employed by those contractors and hence, it has given any employment facility to those people. Therefore, I would request the Government to look into the matter. Moreover in this budget we have seen that they did not provide any more money under this Crash Scheme. So I don't understand how they could complete it. I feel that the Government should re-examine this matter and fix the responsibility on those officers who were responsible and involved in this. Mr. Speaker, Sir, under the Special Nutrition Programme, I would suggest that, if possible, Government should ask for more fund from the Centre because this scheme really helps the villagers. As it is now, we have got only 10 centres in each Block as an experiment. Mr. Speaker, Sir, 10 centres in each Block are not enough ; at least, we should have some more so that we can establish more centres for propagating this schemes even to the remote village in the State as there is no media by which we can teach the people in other places except in those centres. If possible, we would like to suggest that the Governments should request the Government of India to increase the centres under this Special Nutrition Programme so that we can implement this scheme in other villages and Blocks. Moreover, Sir, I would request the other department also to channelise more fund through the block agencies so that the Block can implement all the schemes for the various developmental purposes. With these few words Sir, I move my Cut Motion.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister Community Development) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with the statement of the hon. Mover on the importance of the block agencies as the nearest agencies to the people. In spite of the various block agencies as the nearest agencies to the people. In spite of the various difficulties and draw-backs, in regard to the pattern of administration, the functioning and performance of the blocks, this Government takes a special decision in 1974 to channelise funds now as suggested by the hon. Mover, of various Departments through the Block Agencies. Last year, under this scheme of channelising of funds from various Departments, we channelised Rs.11.5 lakhs through the Block Agencies, and this year i.e., the next financial year 1976-77, we have increased it to Rs.15 lakhs. I may also show the importance given by the Government to these Blocks by giving various schemes and also various funds being placed at the disposal of the Blocks. We have the general programme according to the pattern of the Government of India and for last year it was only Rs.9 lakhs but then out of our own accord, with the concurrence of the Planning Commission, we created another fund for rural works programme to be again implemented through the Block agencies of the amount of Rs.7 lakhs.

Mr. Speaker :- I think that refers to the next question.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister Community Development) :- Yes, and I just want to illustrate that we are in full agreement with the hon. Mover on the importance and effectiveness of the Block Agencies as the nearest administration of the people for their development in various spheres. Now, Sir, the hon. Member from Mawkyrwat has complained on the implementation of schemes in the past years. Perhaps it may be because of the complaint that the Government has decided to adopt a very new and bold policy of appointing non-official Chairmen of the Blocks and the hon. Members is one of them. Now that the hon. mover and other public men have taken over the Chairmanship of the Blocks, I hope that thing will improve to a great extent. So, far as implementation is concerned, the Chairmen were given the responsibility and authority to check on the implementation of schemes in the field and they were given 5 days in a month. I think it will be more than enough. The chairmen are also to visit the various schemes. Therefore, I hope that things will improve as it must have improved during the last few months when the non-official chairmen have taken over as Chairman of the Block Agencies.

        (A voice - But we do not have the power)

        I do not know about the powers. The Chairmen were to preside over the Block Committees which examine and decide on each of the schemes as all these have have to pass through them and the chairmen were also to inspect and check on the implementation of the schemes. They can also submit inspection reports. I would assure that the reports and the findings of the Chairmen of their suggestions on the implementation of schemes will be given the most weighty consideration by the Department. So I do not know how the chairmen would consider that their functions will not be effective when they have these two great responsibilities of presiding over all deliberations and decisions of the committees through which funds are channelised. Therefore, Sir, as I have stated that I agree fully with the views and opinion of the Mover, we, on the part of Government also, have taken all steps towards strengthening the Block Agencies and also increasing the finances to the Block Agencies. With this assurance the Government will give the most weighty consideration to the reports and the Chairmen on the implementation of the schemes, I would request the hon. Member to withdraw his cut motion.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the weightage which the Minister has given to the Community Development, I withdraw the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his motion?

(Voices - Yes, yes)

        The cut motion is, with leave of the House withdrawn.

        The second cut motion stands in the name of Mr. H.E. Pohshna. But here also it is not specific. A discussion on various schemes is not allowed generally in a token cut. So the cut motion is disallowed. Now let me put the question that an amount of Rs.95,77,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head "283-Housing-C- Government Residential Buildings and 288-Social Security  and Welfare".

        (The motion was carried and demand was passed).

        Minister-in-charge of Community Development to move Grant No.68.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister Community Development) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move tat an amount of Rs.8,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head-"314-Community Development-II-C- Rural Works Programme".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received one cut motion which stands in the name of Mr. Edward Kurbah. Just now the Minister has informed the House that this is a new scheme.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister Community Development) :- No Sir.

Shri Edward Kurbah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.8,00,000 under Grant No.63, Major head "314-Community Development-II-C-Rural Works Programme", at page 634 of the Budget be reduced by Rs.100 i.e. the amount of the whole grant of Rs.8,00,000 do stand reduced by Rs.100.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Now you can initiate the discussion.

Shri Edward Kurbah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, by bringing this cut motion I would like to express to this august House the grievances of the people in the rural areas are due to the inadequacy of funds provided by the Government through the Block Agencies. Mr. Speaker, Sir, judging from the past 4/5 years, we have seen that the provision from the Community Development for the Block Agencies was quite enough. But when we compare now Mr. Speaker, Sir, the fund provided for the Block Agency for execution of the various works in the rural areas is very inadequate.

Mr. Speaker :- You said only for the upland area?

Shri E. Kurbah :- Yes, Sir, I do not know about the border areas. There might be some other Departments.....

Mr. Speaker :- Mr. Kurbah, in a Cut Motion, try to be specific. If you say the word 'inadequacy' of funds for the upland area try to compare with the other areas also with facts and figures, otherwise, I will also be lost.

Shri E. Kurbah :- Anyway, Sir, I will confine only to the fund provided to the Block Agencies in the upland areas. As I happened to be one of the Chairman in the Block, I know that all works provided by the Government through the Block Agencies would be utilised properly but, as we know Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the rural areas, the people are very backward and through the Block Agencies the people are getting grants after grants. The Government are trying to help the people in the rural areas in the form of assistance through communications, then agriculture and so on and so forth. But Mr. Speaker, Sir, we came to learn that last year specially when we approached the Government, when so many people demanded grants, we see that the Department could not satisfy the people. We see that there are works which are very very important and the people should be helped in the form of Test-Relief Scheme. But Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I have mentioned earlier, this year specially, there is no provision in the form of Test-Relief Scheme and the fund also which was provided through the channelised fund is very inadequate. So Mr. Speaker, Sir, while raising this point, I also want to request Government  that if they want that their help should reach the people specially the weaker section in the rural areas then they should see that adequate fund should be provided to be utilised through the Block Agencies. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very unhappy to see that the Chairman of the Block has no room in which he could perform his duties. How can the Chairman exercise his power as empowered by the Government if no room is provided for him? How can be discharge his duties?

Mr. Speaker :- I think I will have to summaries the rules connected with the cut motions because the Member may go beyond the track also.

Shri E. Kurbah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, we know that the duties of the Chairman in the Block are very important, people will come to meet the Chairman to find out ways and means for problem they face but as I have said, Sir, the Chairman has no room even to sit - this is the State of affairs, Mr. Speaker, Sir. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, whatever schemes are there by which the Government want to help the people adequate funds should be there so that this fund could be utilised fruitfully. With this end in view, we will be able to help them as we promise and thereby we will be exercising our power for the good of the people. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think we would be able to exercise our power in the Block provided a room or accommodation is provided for the Chairman. Of course, one Chairman may go and another may come we do not know whether his term will be extended or not but we are not speaking about ourselves, but about the future, so that the people will really get the benefit meant for them. With these few words, Sir, I move this cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- I think the Minister will reply to one point, i.e., up to what extent the fund allocated to the upland areas in the whole of the State is inadequate which means in other words that for the other areas, the provision is adequate.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister Community Development) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would categorically state there there is no difference between the upland and non-upland areas in so far as fund provisions are concerned. All Blocks have equal funds whether they are in the upland or in the plain areas. All have got equal amounts in all respects. However, Sir, in view of the fact that the word 'inadequate' was used, whether it is meant particularly for the upland areas or for the whole of the State, with your permission I would like to give certain figures for the information of the House. When we came into being as Autonomous State in 1970, the funds for all the Blocks according to the pattern provided by the Government of India was Rs.32 lakhs. This was gradually reduced and last year it was only Rs.8 lakhs. However, this year, we were able to increase it to Rs.10 lakhs. In view of the shortage and the reduced fund for the Blocks and in view of the fact that we are giving much importance to the Blocks, the Government of its own accord created certain funds for Blocks with the rural work programme. Last year, 7 lakhs were made and another fund through channeling of funds from other Departments was made last year amounting to Rs.11.5 lakhs. And then also we have a Centrally Sponsored Scheme and other schemes and last year, the total fund to the Blocks together with the Non-Plan Programmes and Test Relief Schemes came to about 1 crore 36 lakhs. And, for the next year it will be 1 crore 43.77 lakhs. So, the word 'inadequacy' is not correct here because in view of these figures and in the context of the general pattern of fund position than those in other parts of the country, and this is through the initiative and conscious efforts on the part of the Government.

        Sir, since the hon. Member made some statements about the room for the Deputy Commissioners at the Chairmen of the Blocks and he was never provided with any office room in the Block. Whenever he has to go to the Blocks for duties, he will have to use the office room of the B.D.O. and do his work. We have also sent instructions to the B.D.Os. that whenever the present Chairman will go to the Blocks for performing their duties, they will have the same facilities and that rooms for them will be provided in the Block Offices themselves. With these few words, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hope the hon. Member will withdraw the cut motion.

Shri Edward Kurbah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the reply given by the Minister, I withdraw my cut motion.

(Voices - Yes, Yes).

Mr. Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion?

        The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn. Not I put the main question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.8,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "314-Community Development-II-C-Rural Works Programme."

        (The motion was carried and demand was passed). Minister for Industries to move Grant No.69.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Industries) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move Grant No.69.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received two cut motion. The first stands in the name of Shri D.N. Joshi.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, Agriculture) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I point out that under Rule 144 (3) that on the last day o the days so allotted at 1 P.M. the Speaker shall forthwith put every question necessary to dispose of all the outstanding matters in connection with the demands for grants. The rule has not be repealed and as such it stands.

Mr. Speaker :- Consequential amendments has already been circulated and sitting hours is from 9.30 a.m. to 1.30 p.m. So it is not yet 1.30.

Shri D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the Minister has just said that the time is very short and industries is such a subject that it takes time to do justice to the issue. But I regret to say that the time which has been allotted for discussion is quite inadequate and as such I would not move this cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- I think the hon. Member has forgotten the fact that the time allotted for the voting on demands for grants was not fixed by me alone, it was fixed by the Business Advisory Committee. I will also remind the hon. Members of the House that whenever I tried to help the Members to speed up at least those less important subjects by taking less time but they tried to spend most of the time in those less important subjects. Unless and until the Members co-operate with the Chair it becomes difficult to adjust the time. Even if the Business Advisory Committee allots 20 days what will happen, all the Members will take part in all cut motions and as a result, we will not able to complete one cut motion in one single day. Therefore, the Members from all the parties inside the House, in future, should try to make arrangements outside the House to decide in which subject they will take more time and in which subject they will take less time. Otherwise I will be helpless to help you if you do not co-operate with me. So, Shri D.N. Joshi will not move. Second cut motion to be moved by Shri H.E. Pohshna.

Shri H.E. Pohshna :- I will not move.

Mr. Speaker :- Since both the Members have refused to move, which action seems to have been done in a very sarcastic manner. So in future, I hope such thing will not occur which will cast a reflection on the Chair, otherwise, I shall resort to some other means to respect the House. Now I put the main question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.14,07,200 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "320-Industries".

        (The motion was carried and demand was passed). Minister-in-charge of Village Industries to move Grant No.70.

Shri Grohonsing A. Marak, (Minister, Village and Small Industries) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move Grant No.70.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion I put the question that an amount of Rs.38,55,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "321-Village and Small Industries-I-Handloom and Sericulture and 283-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings".

        (The motion was carried and demand was passed.) Minister-in-charge of Village Industries to move Grant No.71.

Shri Grohonsing A. Marak (Minister, Village and Small Industries) :- Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move Grant No.71.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question that an amount of Rs.74,58,300 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "321 - Village and Small Industries -II -Small Industries."

        (The motion was carried and demand was passed). Minister-in-charge of Mines and Minerals to move Grant No.72.

Shri S.D.D. Nichols-Roy (Minister, Mines and Minerals) :- Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move Grant No.72.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question that an amount of Rs.22,55,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "328-Mines and Minerals-B-Regulation and Development of Mines".

        (The motion was carried and demand was passed). Minister in charge of Irrigation to move Grant No.74.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah (Minister, Irrigation etc.) :- Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move Grant No.74.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question that an amount of Rs.6,42,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977, for the administration of the head "333-Irrigation, Navigation, Drainage and Flood Control Project".

        (The motion was carried and demand was passed). Minister-in-charge Public Works Department to move Grant No.75.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah (Minister, Public Works Department etc.) :- Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move Grant No.75.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received as many as five cut motions in the name of Shri Rowell Lyngdoh, Shri Winstone Syiemiong, Shri Hopingstone Lyngdoh.

        Now Shri Winstone Syiemiong to move.

Shri Winstone Syiemiong :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.2,28,39,000 under Grant No.75, Major head "337-Roads and Bridges", at page 694 of the Budget be reduced by Re.1, i.e. the amount of the whole grant of Rs.2,28,39,000 stand reduced to Re.1.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Now you may initiate a discussion.

*Shri Winstone Syiemiong :- Mr. Speaker,. Sir, I regret very much to say that this being the very important Department where a very substantial amount has been allotted but within these last 4 years and even within this very Session itself we have had on many occasions to discuss about the this particular Department. Without this Department the very function of this Government may be impeded, but then these are certain factors, we understand, that if this Department would have taken the development of the State as a whole we might have progressed much further had there been no slowness or lethargy on the part of the Department in implementing the various schemes. The facts remain that in the implementation side the various schemes. The facts remain that in the implementation side nothing came out as expected. They have given the first priority to the spilled-over schemes in the previous Fourth Five Year Plans. But I may point out here Mr. Speaker, Sir, that these spilled-over schemes which were left over from the Fourth Five Year Plan remain almost in the same position even when we have come to the Fifth Five Year Plan now. For example I may say that there is this Jakrem-Mawthapdah-Nongstoin road. Then the Jakrem-Sohiong road remains almost the same as it was before. These are just a few examples, but I am quite sure that there are quite a number of other spilled over schemes which have not been completed in other areas. I thought that with so much of money that was given to this Department at least those schemes should have been completed by now. Every now and then when we enquired we find only spade work has been done here and there and in another portion only some patches were made while the entire stretch of the road was never completed. This is a very sorry state of affairs. Therefore, I upon upon the Government to kindly consider and if our State is really to be developed, road communication should be given the first priority. This lethargy or slowness in implementation of the schemes should be stopped altogether.

        Then secondly Mr. Speaker, Sir, there have been also several promises made by this Department which I have had the occasion to remind this House in my observation on the budget last time, but which unfortunately the Minister concerned has not replied. It has been stated that priority will be given to those villages having a population of more than 1,000 under the Minimum Needs Programme. But I do not know whether these promises have been fulfilled and what for these promises were made by the Government. As it is at present I can point out those villages which have more than 1,000 population. But I am sure there are no schemes at all to connect them by road communication. Even in my own Constituency, as I have also pointed out the other day, there are two or three villages one of which is the biggest village in the western part of Shngi-Mawlein where is no trace of any scheme, no trace of any plan anywhere. How can this village be connected by road communication when there is not a single scheme? There is another village known as Laitnongrim. This also has a population of more than 1,000 but no schemes or plans and it appears that no people from the Department have every gone that side, no survey work was done as promised in this review of the Government. Then there is another village, a very big one within Pariong Constituency which is known as Marngar. I think it takes years together to complete the road. There is another village Sir-that is within Nongstoin Constituency and is also a very big village known as Umsaw where the people will have to dream for another three to four year to see road communication to that village. Then another one in the constituency of Mairang which is known as Nongum village, there is not scheme for any road communication. So Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am just pointing out these leaving aside the rest to my friends because there is shortage of time at my disposal, I am pointing out only these two the conditions and working of this Department and if it is like this, I am afraid the very dream of our people to make this State a patch of beauty and grace will take years together to be fulfilled. Because when there is no means of communication there will be no scope for further development. Sir, this is the most important Department and priority has also been duty given by the Government on this Department. But it seems that priority remains only a paper work. Whatever achievement it is only a file achievement and in the file the Government will say that so much of road we have done, so much of black topping has been done and in the file there will be only a patch here and there to be done in the entire length of the road. This is a very sorry state of affairs.

        There is another point Sir. Now, I can  point out from the figures given by the Government if we compare the promises made in the reviews of last year with the promises made in the review of this year, we will find a lot of difference and the Government will have a lot of excuses to give us for this. People will understand this, even the layman in the street will understand this and what we want is the fulfillment of these promises in actual practice. We do not want false promise, long promises without anything being done to fulfill those promises. So with these few words I leave to other friends of mine who will point out the rest, and I resume my seat.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I raise to support the cut motion and I would deal with a few points only. As the hon. Member from Nongspung who has moved this cut Motion has said that there is really not much progress in the implementation of scheme for construction of road, I mean construction of new roads. The aim of the Government was to construct new roads up to the length of 260 kilometres annually during the Fifth Plan period. But Sir, I have seen during the first year of the Plan we could complete only 108 kilometres out of the proposed plan of 260 kilometres per year. But during this coming year 1976-77 it is proposed to take up construction of only 120 kilometres. It means we have come down from the previous proposal. Of course, we have heard the other day, the Minister said that there is financial stringency. Well Mr. Speaker, Sir, even in the budget provision which we have earmarked last time i.e., for the year 1975-76 we have certain number of roads to be taken up. For example there are new schemes as well as feeder roads which are being continued from the previous year, as we have sent in this publication of the Government circulated to us, 'the Meghalaya Public Works Department (Roads and Buildings). Detailed estimates of revenue and expenditure of the previous year. Here we have seen new road from Mawkyrwat to Sohsniang where it was provided for rupees one lakh and then again from Mawkyrwat to Phudjaud, it was provided another one lakh of rupees and a feeder road from Rangthong to Ngunraw it was provided one lakh of rupees. But inspite of these amounts nothing has been done for all these roads. It appears that not only a spade work has been done on these roads. It seems that the money has just been exhausted without a trace of work and I do not know where this money should have been spent if it has been spent at all. Now again they have asked for another amount and they have asked only for Rs.50,000 for these two roads which I have just mentioned. And another Rs.20,000 for the feeder road from Rangthong to Ngunraw. I do not know how these amounts were spent or that they have diverted, somewhere else. But in fact we would expect that whenever budget provision has been made it should have been rightly spent. But the amount has not been spent during that year and no work has been done, whereas it was shown that the amount has been spent and now they have asked for another amount. I do not know whether they intend to construct this road or they just want to provide the amount for which they may not do anything at all. If this is the practice, then even by the end of this Five Year Plan also they would no start construction of those roads. So I would request the Government to kindly look into this matter and see that whenever a provision is made in the budget they should start the work at least in those areas for which they have provided for without any delay. So with these few words I resume my seat.

Mr. Speaker :- Will the Minister now reply?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah (Minister P.W.D.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the hon. Mover of the cut motion for bringing home on every important point relating to the importance of the work of the P.W.D. I agree with him entirely that it is a very important subject and it is because of that I had the occasion to intervene on more than three occasions and also place the policy and priorities of the Government in this regard. He has made a mention that nothing much is visible in the field so far as construction of works on roads is concerned. On this I am afraid that I have to disagree with him very much because although it is a fact that roads could not be constructed as we had targeted, but if one goes to the field, the signs of works are very very clear. However, I won't like to dwell just on the vague statement of this nature. But contrary to what has been said that there is slackness and lethargy on the working of the department, it is a matter of admission by many hon. Members of the august House that the Department is working with full steam ahead. In fact it is because of the tempo of works that we have spent much of the funds that had been earmarked for the department in the earlier months of the current year. I agree that in so far as the expenditure in the last few months is concerned there have been slowing down and this is because of the shortage of funds which is readily admitted and this was caused by the constraint of funds in the whole country and in our State also. Now on this point, I want to make it very clear Mr. Speaker, Sir, that we are an anxious as the hon. Members who have participated in the cut motion to implement vigorously road schemes. Because these have got the top priority. Of course the work might not have gone in the manner that would create optimism. But I can say with confidence that work on roads like Sohiong-Pariong is going on and even the other day I happened to talk to my engineers and I know that even the roads from Lyngkhoi-Tihnongbah, which is a very important link, is going on and then the bridge work between Pariong and the main road is being taken up. So it goes on in this manner but I would not like to into detail. I believe that in the next financial year which is starting from tomorrow, we will be able to complete this spill of work in this regard and I fully agree that this work should get top priority.

        Now regarding the observations made about the Minimum Needs Programme, I think it is in the category of third priority. It is true that under this Programme, all the villages with a population of one thousand or cluster of villages having a range of population between 1000 and 1500 will be linked up with the main road. But it is not really possible to connect all the villages connected by roads. I am very happy that the mover of the motion has drawn my attention to the need to have road connection to big villages like Shngi-Mawlein, etc. And Sir, on my own initiative I have already talked to my officers that since this is a very big village, I think with a population of not less than three thousand, it will somehow be connected with the main road. So also in regard to villages like Nongum, etc. Therefore, Sir, we are up and doing and we are trying to link important villages and this will be taken into consideration while selecting the villages under the Minimum Needs Programme.

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the time is very short, I would like to be very brief so that I can get all the points of the hon. Members.

Mr. Speaker :- You have got two minutes more.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah (Minister, P.W.D.) :- Thank you, Sir. Now the hon. Member from Mawkyrwat had mentioned a very important point that is that the roads mentioned in the Budget Speech of the Finance Minister, which have found place there, should under no circumstances be taken up immediately. But as you know, Sir, the construction of roads and bridges is not a matter which can be taken up forthwith. Survey needs to be done and all factors should be taken into consideration and then the necessary estimate should be prepared. So, it is a long process. It is not a process which can be taken up immediately. But I do agree entirely with the hon. Member that the road schemes that have been placed in  the Budget should normally be taken up with expedition. So, on this, I can assure the hon. Members and I would like to say that they should have no rooms for doubt. We are also anxious and vigilant as they are to see that our State will get communication as needed on the whole. Now with regard to other points which have been raised by some hon. Members with regard to construction of road in the previous year and the next year, I have already explained to them that for the last three years we have been getting the allocation of funds on the basis of Rs.3 crores  under the Five Year Plan and very recently this amount has been increased to rupees three crores twenty five lakhs as allocated by the Planning Commission of India. Therefore, the kilometerage which has been mentioned here is co-related to the amount that we are having. So, on this point there should not be room for misunderstanding. The hon. Member mentioned that one road will get the top priority but in the budget we have got about Rs.50,000 we have a provision of lump sum fund. But perhaps if this road needed to be taken up urgently we will see that the funds are injected for the speedy implementation I think, these are all the points that have been raised by the hon. Members and with these few words, I would like to request the hon. Mover to withdraw his cut motion.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion. (Voices - Yes, yes.) The cut motion with leave of the House is withdrawn.

        Now I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.2,28,39,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "377-Roads and Bridges."

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

        Now, the Minister-in-charge of Road and Water Transport Services to move the Grant No.76.

Shri D.D. Pugh (Minister-in-charge of Road and Water Transport Services) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, o the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.93,59,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "338-Roads and Water Transport Services".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question that an amount of Rs.93,59,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "338-Roads and Water Transport Services".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

        Now I ask the Minister-in-charge of Tourism to move Grant No.77.

Shri D.D. Pugh (Minister, Tourism) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.14,70,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "339-Tourism".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question that an amount of Rs.14,70,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "339 - Tourism".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed.)

Grant No.79

        The question is that an amount of Rs.34,43,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "459-Capital Outlay on Public Works".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed.)

Grant No.79 (A)

        The question is that an amount of Rs.33,90,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "477-Capital Outlay on Education Art and Culture, 480-Capital Outlay on Medical etc."

(The motion was carried and demand was passed.)

Grant No.80

        The question is that an amount of Rs.90,33,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "482-Capital Outlay on Public Health Sanitation and water Supply". 

(The motion was carried and demand was passed.)

Grant No.81

        The question is that an amount of Rs.24,55,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "483-Capital Outlay on Housing-A-Government Residential Building (Incharge of Public Works Department). 

(The motion was carried and demand was passed.)

Grant No.84.

        The question is that an amount of Rs.29,25,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1977 for the administration of the head "498-Capital Outlay on Co-operation". 

(The motion was carried and demand was passed.)

Grant No.84 (A)

        The question is that an amount of Rs.60,30,000 be granted t the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "499-Capital Outlay on Special and Backward Areas-C-North Eastern Areas.

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

Grant No.86

        The question is that an amount of Rs.1,80,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "506-Capital Outlay on Minor Irrigation, Soil Conservation and the Area Development." 

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

Grant No.86 (A)

        The question is that an amount of Rs.4,06,300 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "509-Capital Outlay on Food and Nutrition".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

Grant No.87

        The question is that an amount of Rs.30,00,300 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "513-Capital Outlay on Forest".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

Grant No.88

        The question is that an amount of Rs.52,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "520-Capital Outlay on Industrial Research and Development". 

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

Grant No.89

        The question is that an amount of Rs.80,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "521-Capital Outlay on Village and Small Industries". 

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

Grant No.92

        The question is that an amount of Rs.2,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "528-Capital Outlay on Mining Metallurgical Industries".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

Grant No.92 (A)

        The question is that an amount of Rs.1,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "530-Investment in Industrial Financial Institutions".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

Grant No.93

        The question is that an amount of Rs.14,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "533-Capital Outlay on Irrigation, Navigation, Drainage and Flood Control Projects".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

Grant No.94

        The question is that an amount of Rs.2,78,66,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "537-Capital Outlay on Roads, and Bridges".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

Grant No.95

        The question is that an amount of Rs.15,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "538-Capital Outlay on Roads and Water Transport Services".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

Grant No.97

        The question is that an amount of Rs.20,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "677-Loans for Education, Arts and Culture".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

Grant No.99

        The question is that an amount of Rs.10,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "683-Loans for Housing".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

Grant No.102

        The question is that an amount of Rs.5,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "688-Loans for Social Security and Welfare-II-Loans to ex- Service Personnel".

(The motion was carried and demand was passed).

Grant No.103

        The question is that an amount of Rs.5,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "695-Loan for other Social and Community Services."

(The motion was adopted and demand was passed).

Grant No.104

        The question is that an amount of Rs.6,80,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "698-Loans to Cooperative Societies"

(The motion was adopted and demand was passed).

Grant No.106

        The question is that an amount of Rs.2,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "705-Loans for Agriculture".

(The motion was adopted and demand was passed).

Grant No.111

        The question is that an amount of Rs.3,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "705-Loans for Agriculture".

(The motion was adopted and demand was passed).

Grant No.133

        The question is that an amount of Rs.33,50,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "766-Loans to Government Servants".

(The motion was adopted and demand was passed).

Grant No.144

        The question is that an amount of Rs.66,60,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1977 for administration of the head "768-Inter-State Settlement".

(The motion was adopted and demand was passed).

Mr. Speaker :- Now the Minister-in-charge of Finance.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to introduce the Meghalaya Appropriation (No.I) Bill, 1976.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. The question is that leave be granted to introduce the Meghalaya Appropriation (No.I) Bill, 1976.

        The motion is carried and leave is granted.

        Before I ask the Minister to introduce the Bill, let me read the message from the Governor.

"Raj Bhavan Shillong.
March, 30th 1976

        In exercise of the powers conferred by Clause (1) of Article 207 of the Constitution of India, I, Lallan Prasad Singh, Governor of Meghalaya recommend to the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly the introduction of the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. II) Bill, 1976.

Sd/- L.P. Singh
Governor.

Now the Minister for Finance to introduce the Bill.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister Finance) :- I beg to introduce the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. II) Bill, 1976.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. The question is that the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. II) Bill, 1976 be introduced.

The motion is carried and the Bill is introduced.

(The Secretary read out the title of the Bill).

        Before we go to the next stage of the Bill, let me read the message from the Governor.

"Raj Bhavan Shillong,
30th March, 1976

        In exercise of the powers conferred by Clause (3) of Article 207 of the Constitution of India, I Lallan Prasad Singh, Governor of Meghalaya recommend to the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly the consideration of the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. II) Bill, 1976.

Sd/- L.P. Singh
Governor"

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. II) Bill, 1976 be taken into consideration.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. The question is that the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. II) Bill 1976 be taken into consideration.

(The Motion is carried)

Mr. Speaker :- Now since there is no amendment, the Minister, Finance, to move the motion for passing.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh (Minister Finance) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. II) Bill, 1976 be passed.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. The question is that the Meghalaya Appropriation (No. II) Bill, 1976 be passed.

(The motion was carried and the Bill was passed)


ADJOURNMENT

        The House stands adjourned till 9.30 a.m. on Friday, the2nd April, 1976.

 R.T. RYMBAI
Dated Shillong : Secretary,
The 31st March 1976 Meghalaya Legislative Assembly.

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