Proceedings of the Budget Session of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly assembled at 9.30 a.m. on Wednesday the 8th June 1977 in the Assembly Chamber Shillong with the Deputy Speaker in the Chair.


Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Let us start the business of the day by taking up unstarred question No.57.

UNSTARRED QUESTIONS

(Replies to which were laid on the Table)

Betasing Administrative Unit

Shri. Samarendra Sangma asked :

57.    Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

(a) Whether any committee has been constituted by the Government to select the final site for the permanent headquarters of the the Betasing Administrative Unit, West Garo Hills ?

(b) If so, who are the members of the said committee ?

(c) Whether the said committee has submitted their recommendations to the Government ?

(d) If so, what are the recommendations ?

(e) If the answer to (a) above be in the negative, when will the committee be constituted ?

Shri. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

57. (a) The Commissioner of Division has constituted a committee for initial investigation.

       (b) - The following are the Members of the said Committee :-

    1.   Deputy Commissioner, erstwhile Garo Hills District, Tura - Chairman.

    2.    Chief Executive Member, District Council, Tura.

    3.    Civil Surgeon, Tura.

    4.    Superintending Engineer, Public Works Department, (Roads and Buildings) Tura, Circle.

    5.    Representative, Executive Engineer, Public Works Department, Division concerned.

    6.    Executive Engineer, P.H.E., Williamnagar.

    7.    Executive Engineer, P.H.E. Tura.

    8.    Associate Town Planner, Tura.

    9.    The Administrative Officer of Betasing or an officer selected by the Deputy Commissioner, West Garo Hills, Tura - Secretary.

        (c) - No.

        (d) - Does not arise.

        (e) - Does not arise.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- 57 (a), Sir, when did the Government constitute a Committee for initial investigation ?

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- It was on 21st July, 1976.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- 57 (b). Sir, whether the Government is having a proposal to include the local M.L.As in the Committee?

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, they may not be here in the Committee but they will be consulted.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, how long will the Committee take to complete the investigation ?

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- According to our official information the site has been located but, I cannot give the exact time as to when.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- They have taken a long time.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Sir, - 58.


Construction of Border Roads in West Garo Hills

Shri. Samarendra Sangma asked :

58.    Will the Minister-in-charge of P.W.D., be pleased to state -

(a) Whether any amount was received from the Central Government for the construction of border roads in West Garo Hills ?

(b) If so, what is the total amount received ?

(c) What are the reasons for pendency of the construction of the border roads in West Garo Hills for so many years ?

Shri. E. Bareh (Minister-in-charge of P.W.D. etc.) replied :

58.     (a) - Yes.

(b) - Rs.41.00 lakhs.

(c) - Does not arise, as an amount of Rs.41.00 lakhs have so far been spent for improvement of Dalu - Purakhasia Road.


Representations by the People of Saw-Symper

Shri. K.M. Roy Marbaniang asked :

59.    Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state whether Government has lately received any representation from the people of Saw-Symper and other villages of Maharam Syiemship to the effect that their areas should remain within Mawsynram Development Block for their convenience?

Shri. G.A. Marak (Minister Community Development) replied :

59 -    No such representation from the people of Saw-Symper has been received by Government.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- Whether the Government is considering the proposal to bring the villages of Saw-symper and other villages of Maharam Syiemship to the effect that their areas should remain within the Mawsynram Development Block ?

Shri. Grohonsing A. Marak (Minister, C.D.) :- Since the Government has not received any representation from those villages the Government has not yet thought about it.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- No. 60.


Bank account of the Meghalaya Transport Corporation

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah asked :

60.    Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

(a) Whether it is a fact that the Meghalaya Transport Corporation maintains a fixed deposit account with the Indian Overseas Bank ?

(b) If so, what is the amount?

(c) The bank with which the Meghalaya Transport Corporation is having a regular current accounts ?

Shri. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :  

60.

(a) - Yes.

(b) - Rs.19 lakhs.

(c) - State Bank of India, Shillong.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- 60 (b) and 60 (c). What are the reasons for operating two Bank Accounts ?

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- The Corporation is maintaining the current account with the State Bank of India. It will not be possible for the Corporation to maintain current account with more than one Bank at present. The question of maintaining current accounts with other Banks may be examined at a later stage. At present we are negotiating with the Indian Overseas Bank for a loan of 50,00,000/-.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- My point is, is it necessary to maintain a fixed deposit account ? Why not a current account ?

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Because it is not possible at this stage.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- Now Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, whether it is a fact that a large number of pending bills to be paid are lying with the Corporation ?

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- It is a fact.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- Is it a fact that non-payment is due to paucity of fund ?

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- It is partly so.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :-  61.


Taking over of the Garo Hills District Council Transport

Shri. Samarendra Sangma  asked :

61.     Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state.

(a) Whether the Government is going to take over the Garo Hills District Council Bus Transport establishment?

(b) If so, when will the actual taking over place ?

(c) Whether the Government will have to pay anything to the Garo Hills District Council for such taking over?

(d) If so, to what extend ?

(e) Whether all the present members of the staff of the Garo Hills District Council Bus Transport establishment will be absorbed in the State Transport Corporation ?

Shri. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

61. (a) to (e) - The question of taking over the Garo Hills District Council Transport is under the consideration of Government.

Shri. Jackman Marak :- When will the proposal be finalised in take over the Garo Hills District Council Transport?

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- It is under consideration.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, since when the matter came under the consideration of the Government?

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- The first communication in this regard is in 1974.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- It has taken a long time.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- 62.


Health Engineering Wing

Shri. G. Mylliemngap  asked :

62.    Will the Minister-in-charge of Health be pleased to state -

(a) Whether the Health Department has its own engineering wing ?

(b) If not, whether Government propose to create an engineering wing for the Department?

Shri. S.K. Marak (Minister-in-charge of Health) replied :

62    (a) - No.

        (b) - No.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- 62. (b). Whether the Government considers the proposal of having an Engineering Cell ?

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- No.

Mr. Speaker :- No. 63.


Zamindari System in Garo Hills

Shri. Samarendra Sangma asked :

63.     Will the Minister-in-charge of Revenue be pleased to state -

(a) What was the budget provision earmarked for the District Council, Garo Hills during the year 1976-77 to do away with the Zamindary system in the District ?

(b) The amount actually received by the said District Council during the year 1976-77 and the manner of its utilisation ?

Shri. Maham Singh (Minister, Revenue) replied :

63.    (a) - An amount of Rs.3,85,000 was earmarked and provided in the budget of 1976-77 for payment of compensation for the acquired Zamindary estates in Garo Hills District.

        (b) - The amount of Rs.3,85,000 was received by the Garo Hills District Council during the year 1976-77 as sanctioned for the purpose as at (a) above, and the amount has been disbursed to the Ex-Zamindars of the acquired Zamindary estates of Garo Hills District.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, before we come to the cut motion, may I raise a matter concerning this cut motion ? It will be of help to the Ministers in the working of the cut-motion because in the Practice and Procedure of Parliamentary by Mr. Shakdher it is said that if there has been a Vote on account Budget for 3 months, or for a period prior to the Budget being moved, there is a particular form in which these demands are to be made, excluding the sum of money passed during the Vote on Account. I would like to be guided by the House to see whether we can find out what is the correct  procedure to be followed in this demand. The relevant portion is found in Shakdher's book, at page 605, which says as follows, "Normally, the motions in respect of the demands for grants relating to the General Budget are moved for sums excluding the sums already voted on account by the House in respect of those demands". This is at page 605 and the foot note is like this. "This form of motion is - ". That a sum not exceeding Rs......... be granted to the President to complete the sum necessary to defray the charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March". Our rules also tell us that if the business of the House is not covered by, a particular rule, we have to follow the practice and procedures of Parliament. I have also enquired from the Officers of the Assam Legislative Assembly, and I am told that they have also followed this practice of excluding the sum passed during the Vote on account.

        There is also a practical problem in the form now being followed Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We are now passing this demand for a total sum, that means, the sums of money passed earlier and the sums of money being asked for now; if by and chance of course, it is only academic or theoretical - the demand is rejected by the House, even that sum in the Vote on account will be rejected. Therefore, the Motion for demand No.27 should read like this "That a sum not exceeding Rs........ be granted to the President to complete the sum necessary to defray the charges." However, since we have already passed or completed 19 Grants in this fashion, the only way out which I may suggest would be that at the end while passing the Appropriation Bill, to see that the previous Appropriation Bill is repealed; otherwise, we will have two sums of money being passed by the House without excluding the Vote on Account in either. 

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- It may not be correct that we have to follow that Practice and Procedure in Parliament as far as this House is concerned. It is also a fact as stated by the hon. Member, but as 19 Grants have already been passed therefore, I should be for future guidance.


VOTING ON DEMANDS FOR GRANTS

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I feel that the point raised by the hon. Member from Mawhati is very relevant in the sense that this matter did not strike us in the past or did not come up for consideration. Although I would think that this suggestion has to be seriously considered, but at this stage when we have passed already 19 demand it may not be desirable to raise the point now. But I agree with the hon. Member from Mawhati so far as the point raised that when at the time of passing the Appropriation Bill, perhaps we may go into this matter in greater depth because it may be an anomaly that we have to pass two Appropriation Bills. Of course, for the past since we have created a precedent we cannot do otherwise. But since the point has been raised which is pertinent and relevant, I believe that we have to go into this matter in depth and perhaps that can be done at the time when the Appropriation Bill comes up before the House. Just at the moment, we can go ahead.

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as far as the last point is concerned, I must say that at the present moment it will not be possible for me to give a categorical assurance. But for the future, this will have to be considered and if necessary our own rules may be amended to that effect.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- At least from the point of view of audit. It seems from the audit officers view we cannot have two Appropriation Bills. So, at least on the day of passing the Appropriation Bill which includes both sums we sill have to say at the bottom of the Bill that this Bill repeals the Appropriation Bill already passed by the House otherwise the position would be anomalous. 

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :-While I appreciate the point of view expressed by the hon. Member from Mawhati that it will look as if we are passing two Appropriation Bills, but in effect, the Appropriation Bill supercedes the previous Appropriation Bill already passed. I still hold the view that in view of the point raised by the hon. Member which is very relevant and pertinent that this matter has to be gone into in depth. Since the matter has been raised then a question may arise later which is not good for the House. So, I feel that at this stage, if you, Sir, take the initiative to go into the procedure and functions of the House of the People and the House of Commons as well, then the House may find agreeable solution to this matter.

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- As far as that suggestion is concerned, I cannot at this stage give any categorical assurance that it will be done. But, of course, for the future, this matter will have to be examined thoroughly.

Prof. A. Warjri :- We want to be clarified whether what we have done uptil now is a mistake or not.

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- It is not a mistake.

Prof. A. Warjri :- I want to say whether this is against the precedent created and if so, I think it will be looked into, rather all these things will have to be looked into, so that the mistake should not be repeated.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Next item - Grant No.20. Cut Motion No.3 to be moved by Shri. Jackman Marak.

Shri. Jackman Marak :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.1,88,22,600 under Grant No.20. Major head "259 - Public Works" at page 122-133 of the Budget be reduced by Rs.100 i.e. the amount of the whole grant of Rs.1,88,22,600 do stand reduced by Rs.100.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved. Now you can initiate the discussion.

Shri. Jackman Marak :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, why I brought this cut motion to this august House is because in the budget this amount has been provided for construction of the road from Chokpot to Sibbari including all bridges. Although I agree that the P.W. Department has been doing the works sincerely yet Mr. Deputy Speaker, I have found that one bridge that has been constructed over the Daldo stream, not far from Chokpot, say about six kilometers, is a beautiful and very nice bridge. But I am sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that last year one portion of the bridge was broken down and it was repaired and again it looks very nice. But then again in the month of April when there was heavy rain, another portion of this bridge has been damaged. I do not know whether the foundation of this bridges is correctly done or not. I do not know that because I am a non-technical man and this matter has been reported to the Executive Engineer, Tura South Division. The Executive Engineer replied to me that he has once visited the bridge and that repair work has been done. But, Sir, some leader, of the villages whom I have visited complained to me that because this is a big stream in between Chokpot and Gielmatkolgir and urged that unless this bridge is constructed permanently, there is no use of constructing this road from Chokpot to Sib-bari. Not only this Daldo bridge Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is another culvert also say at 7 k.m. where one culvert also is going to collapse. So Sir, I would request Government to see that the bridges and culverts are permanently constructed before giving the final bill. Moreover, Sir, I would request Government, through you, to enquire into this bridge immediately and also one culvert because one bridge is constructed once and for all. If any bridge is constructed many times, on the part of the Government also it will be a loss. So Sir, at least Government also should come forward to construct the roads and bridges.

        And another point, another culvert has been totally broken. It was again constructed. I do not know whether it will be a firm culvert or not. One bridge is constructed over the Daldo stream and two culverts have been repaired. So, I would request Government through you, Sir, to see and enquire immediately into this things which I have spoken. With these few words, I resume my seat.

Shri. E. Bareh (Minister, P.W.D. etc.) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the spirit that the hon. mover of the cut motion has taken to bring to my notice any of the defects found on the working of the departments under my charge. Here he has brought a particular case of this bridge at Daldo stream between Chokpot and Sibbari Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this bridge was constructed during the year 1975-76 and it was completed in March, 1976 at the estimated cost of Rs.2,54,716, and we have got a complaint that there is some crack on the wing wall of the bridge and then we have sent our engineers to inspect the bridge and it was reported what they found, it is a hair crack in the plastering of this wing wall land that also has been repaired. Then again, when the matter was raised here I may sent my officers to again go there and inspect the bridge. The report we have received was that the bridge has been repaired and there is no sign that the bridge is in danger in any way because only the hair crack was there on the plastering of the wing wall. As for the two culverts which the hon. member has just now mentioned we will have the matter enquired into and I can only say to the hon. member that if he is not satisfied again, let me know and I can assure him that I can personally go there and check on this work. And on this, I would request the hon. mover to withdraw the cut motion.

Shri. Jackman Marak :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I like the attitude of the Minister in-charge of P.W.D. because he assured in this august House to recheck that bridges and he promised to send his officers to make a spot enquiry into these culverts and bridges. So, I thank him for this and I withdraw the cut motion.

Shri. E. Bareh (Minister, P.W.D. etc.) :- Thank you.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the cut motion ?

(Voices - Yes, Yes).

        The cut motion with the leave of the house is withdraw. Now, let me put the question before the House, that an amount of Rs.1,88,22,600 be granted to the Minister-in-Charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "259 - Public Works".

        (The motion was carried and the demand was passed).

        Now, I come to grant No.21 to be moved by the Chief Minister.

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.59,50,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "265 - Other Administrative Services - I - Civil Defence and Home Guards" Mr. Deputy Speaker Motion moved. As there is no cut motion I put the question before the House. That an amount of Rs.59,50,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come on the course of payment during the year ending the 31stMarch 1978, for the administration of the Head "265 - Other Administrative Services - I Civil Defence and Home Guards".

(The motion was carried, and the demand was passed).

Then, I come to grant No.22 to be moved by the Chief Minister.

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.3,30,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "265 - Other Administrative Services - II - Motor Garages, etc."

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved and since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.3,30,000 be granted to the Minister, in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "265 - Other Administrative Services - II - Motor Garages, etc."

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed).

Then, I come to grant No.23 to be moved by the Minister, in-charge of Statistic.

Shri. P.G. Marbaniang (Minister-in-charge of Statistics) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.73,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "265 - Other Administrative Services - III - Gazetteer and Statistical Memoirs".

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion I put the question before the House. That an amount of Rs.73,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "265 - Other Administrative Services - III - Gazetteer and Statistical Memoirs".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

Now grant No.24 to moved by the Chief Minister.

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move that an amount of Rs.8,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "265 - Other Administrative Services - IV - Census, Vital Statistics, guest House etc.".

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received two cut motions standing in the name of Shri. D.D. Pugh and Shri. K.M. Roy Marbaniang. Both of them are absent. So the cut motions are deemed to have been withdrawn. Let me put the main question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.8,00,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "265 - Other Administrative Services - IV - Census, Vital Statistics, guest House etc.".

        (The motion was carried and demand was passed)

        Let us pass on to grant No.26 to be moved by the Chief Minister.

Shri. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move that an amount of Rs.3,84,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "265 - Other Administrative Services - V - Miscellaneous Administrative Services."

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion let me put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.3,84,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "265 - Other Administrative Services - V - Miscellaneous Administrative Services."

        (The motion was carried and the demand was passed).

        Now, Grant No.26 to be moved by the Chief Minister.

Shri. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.17,90,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "266 - Pension and Other Retirement Benefits".

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion let me put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.17,90,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "266 - Pension and Other Retirement Benefits".

        (The motion was carried and the demand was passed).

        Grant No.27 to be moved by the Chief Minister.

Shri. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.3,43,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "267 - Aid Materials and Equipments".

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, let me put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.3,43,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "267 - Aid Materials and Equipments".

        (The motion was carried and the demand was passed).

        Now Grant No.28 to be moved by the Chief Minister.

Shri. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.4,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "268  - Miscellaneous General Services, Preparation payments, State Lotteries. Pension for distinguished Services".

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion let me put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.4,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "268 - Miscellaneous General Services, Preparation payments, State Lotteries. Pension for distinguished Services".

        (The motion was carried and the demand was passed0

        Grant No.29 to be moved by the Chief Minister.

Shri. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.6,02,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "276  - Secretariat - Social and Community Service - I - Civil Departments".

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is not cut motion let me put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.6,02,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "276  - Secretariat - Social and Community Service - I - Civil Departments".

    (The motion was carried and the demand was passed).

        Grant No.30 to be moved by the Minister, Health.

Shri. S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.42,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "276  - Secretariat - Social and Community Service - II - Public Health Engineering Secretariat".

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, let me put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.42,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "276 - Secretariat - Social and Community Service - II - Public Health Engineering Secretariat".

        (The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Now, the Minister of Education to move Grant No.31.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Before the Minister moves Grant No.31, let me point out the totaling mistake at page 175 under this Grant - Education which can be quickly rectified, there is nothing much to be corrected. It should be Rs.5,52,58,000. I may submit so that you can immediately put it right, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as we cannot spend time on this.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if the Education Minister feels that there is substance in what the hon. Member from Mawhati has pointed out to a small totaling mistake, the House has to be adjourned for sometime to check up.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Let this be checked up by the office and let us pass on to another Grant.

Shri. Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- I would say that the hon. Member from Mawhati in the last moment has pointed out this mistake. As far as portion No.1 is concerned, there is no mistake but there is a slight mistake in portion No.2. Let us not be in a hurry.

Prof. A Warjri :- I think it is better to adjourn for some time.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- I have already given my ruling on this. Let it be checked, in the meanwhile, let us pass on to another Grant.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- It is irregular but it is up to the Chair.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- I would like to remind the Minister, Health that in the Grant No.28 also where the change was made from sterilisation to child health, which is for maternity and child health, he has deducted Rs.35,000. This has also to be rectified.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to make some observation. This seems to be a very unhappy episode that this totaling mistake should have been committed on this. From our side, we are not going to make an issue. But in the interest of the smooth proceedings of the House, I would suggest that it will create a bad precedent if we will pass on to other Grants. I would suggest that we adjourn the House for at least 15 minutes or half an hour to enable the Minister to come with corrected figures. Of course, the sitting of the House should be extended by half an hour.

Prof. A. Warjri :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, rather, I would request that not only on this particular Grant No.31 the hon. Member from Mawhati has detected the mistake, but also under Grant No.28 under the head "Medical". I therefore, suggest that a longer time be given for correction of this mistake and we should adjourn the House.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Is it the sense of the House that the House stands adjourned for half an hour for correction of this mistake ?

(Voices - Yes, Yes.)

(The House was adjourned for half an hour).

(The House re-assembled at 10.40 A.M. after a break of 30 minutes)

(Mr. Deputy Speaker in the Chair)

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- I think the mistakes that we found have been rectified.

Shri. P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education, etc.) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor I beg to move Grant No.31. Sir, there has been a printing mistake in page 175 of the Budget. Under Salaries instead of Rs.2,94,103 it should be Rs.2,91,100.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved. In this respect I have received a cut motion which stands in the name of Mr. Rowell Lyngdoh.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, just before you come to that I want to make an observation that it is not a grand total mistake but only a printing mistake. I would suggest a sort of corrigendum is circulated so that all the members will know where the printing mistake occurs otherwise we will be embarrassed if we have to break again for half-an-hour. So I would suggest that the Department concerned should be careful so that the House will not be subjected to inconvenience.

Shri. S.D. Khongwir :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move this cut motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Since the mover of the cut motion does not want to move, the cut motion which stands in his name is deemed to have been withdrawn. Now cut motion No.3 which stands in the name of Prof. Alexander Warjri and Mr. G. Mylliemngap.

(A Voice - Absent)

        No, one is here. Cut Motion No.2. Since the mover is absent the cut motion which stands in the name of Mr. Rowell Lyngdoh is deemed to have been withdrawn. Cut Motion 3, which stands in the name of Prof. Alexander Warjri and Shri. G. Mylliemngap.

Prof. A. Warjri :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.5,52,55,000 under Grant No.31, Major head "277 - Education. at page 162 - 207 of the Budget be reduced by Rs.100 i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs.5,52,55,000 do stand reduced by Rs.100.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Motion moved. Now you can initiate the discussion.

Prof. A. Warjri :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir,. I would like to be brief in this. This is only to ventilate the grievances of college and school teachers in the State. Now, as we all know, the teacher's community is one of the neglected classes in the society, especially here in our country, the teacher community - and by saying so I mean the teachers right from the primary up to the college and university levels - as a class - are a neglected community. Of course, we cannot deny the fact that the Government, from time to time, has been trying to improve the conditions of the teachers of all categories. But these improvements of the condition or fate of the teachers were not at part with the improvements given to other sections of the people who serve the community. We cannot compare the facilities given to Government servants with those given to teachers. A teacher teaching in the Primary school or Middle school is required to pass his Matric and some of them have to take a teaching jobs although they have passed B.A. and yet their salary sad to say till now is much lower than that of a peon serving in the offices. And I think the majority of teachers serving in these schools, even in high schools, especially in far-flung areas of our State, are getting much less pay than the peons serving in Government offices. I think this is an injustice and, therefore, the Government should see that at least something has not been given its due share. Education should be given top priority if we are to have a good society and I believe if we have to improve their lots lots as citizens this can be done only through education.

        If you want to develop industries it is education that comes first. If you want to send our people for higher study to take up various responsibilities in the state it is education that comes first. If you want to develop agriculture on scientific basis we have to educate our farmers and their children so that they can put into practice the scientific method of cultivation. I have observed in this sanction and I have contacted the Minister-in-charge, that more or less there is an increase to the tune of 70 lakhs over last years' budget for education. At a glance one may say that it is a big increase. But these 70 lakhs, if you consider so far as our State is concerned, is nothing. If you remember the fact as I was told that this is on account of revised scale that had been given to the teachers especially to the teachers serving in the deficit colleges. This has come to so much increase by 70 lakhs, but this will not be an expenditure from the State side is much if we remember the fact that at least for a term of 5 years the U.G.C. will pay 88 percent of this increase. I am of course subject to correction.

        Now coming to the question of grievances of the teachers, at the beginning I would like to divide the teachers into four categories. There are Primary School teachers, Middle English school teachers, High Schools teachers, Higher Secondary School teachers and College teachers. As far as primary school teachers are concerned, I think everybody in this House knows the lot of most of them. All these primary school teachers are living in villages. Of course the reply would be that they belong to the District Council; all the primary schools have been placed under the charge of the District Council. But it is also a fact that for the running of the primary schools, sanctions are given by the Government and the amount is being included in the budget. I would like to say here that there is a complaint all over the State that the Primary school teachers do not regularly receive payment of their salary. Some of them have to employ themselves in other works and give up teaching for some time in order to earn their bread. It is really shocking to hear that certain primary school teachers did not receive their pay even for one year. I do not know how these teachers can survive. Of course, it is the duty of the District Council. But when such things come to the notice of the Government, which is financing the District Council, should not Government make the District Council aware of this fact ? I would like to suggest that there should be a monthly return or monthly reply from the District Council to the Government regarding payment to teachers.

        Secondly, there are some anomalies in the payment of teaches by the District Council. It is a common knowledge that when sanction for payment of teacher is obtained, the District Council pay salary to only 1 or 2 teachers in the prescribed scale of pay in an establishment of 4 or 5 teachers. The non-recipient 2 or 3 extra teachers would look upon those teachers with jealousy. It is quite irregular also when the head of the institution just mixes up the entire money and divides that money equally among the four while the two or three teacher have to sign the register acknowledgement the receipt of the full scale of the District Council. I suggest that if a rate is fixed by the District Council for all the teachers otherwise it is better not to give this partial salary at all. It brings animosity who among the teachers. Then there are the primary school teachers have passed P.U.C. or B.A.. But their salary is not enviable. Their pay, as I said earlier, is not even at par with that of peons working in the Government institutions or Government offices.

        Coming to the High Schools, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am including here the M.E. Schools also. I think the Education Minister must have already received appeal from the General Secretary and I take for granted that something had been done already in this regard. One thing Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to point out here is that for the last 5 years it was a shock to me to know that 18 schools only have been converted into deficit school in the whole State. if I am not mistaken, out of these 18 schools, I have learned that only six are tribal schools. If this is so and if this is correct, I would request the Government that some more schools should be taken on the deficit grant so that these teachers can enjoy at least the grant or can enjoy the salary as fixed by the Government for these high-schools under the deficit grant. Then I would also request the Government, to do something for those schools, which the Government cannot take under the deficit grant. It is the duty of the management of these schools to give adequate pay to the teachers. Otherwise, I think it is injustice and under the Labour Law which does not allow that a worker should be paid less than the minimum salary which the other categories of people with some qualification enjoy much better facilities than them. Therefore, I would request the Government to see to this that even these private schools will get such grants from time to time and these schools should be directed that they should make adequate or rather that adequate salary should be fixed. I would suggest that Government should prescribe better pay scale to be paid to the teachers of these schools which do not fall under this deficit grant. Otherwise, I do not see any benefit for these schools being opened.

        Then coming to college teachers, regarding their grievances, I think there have been outstanding issue like gratuity and increased G.P.F., contribution to provident fund from 6 to 8 percent and medical benefit, house rent allowance and Sir, all these things are yet unsettled. Of course most of the colleges which fall under the deficit scheme have already got the U.G.C. scale. But over and above I think that at least I would request the Government to consider this gratuity case for certain teachers whose cases have been pending. In fact a talk was there already with the Chief Minister about those teachers who have not got the revised scale and who have left only one or two years back. Since these cases have been pending Sir, I would request the Government to pay gratuity to all these teachers who have been serving as teachers for the last 20/25  and some of them even for the last 30 years in the colleges. Then another thing, Sir, I would like to request the Government to enlighten those teachers who are also serving in the night section Sir, I am also in favour of Government starting night section classes, specially here in Shillong where there is need of night classes and also in other towns like Tura and Jowai. However, I would like to suggest or rather I am in favour of Government opening separate colleges with staff different from those of the day sections. It may be in the same place, but it should be different with different staff in the night colleges. It is enough in big towns like Shillong to have two night colleges for boys and one for girls. But Sir, if the Government do not have fund then the same teachers may be employed in the night section with adequate additional salary. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I myself and the Education Minister were teachers in the same college. I served as a teacher in that college for 18 years.

Shri. S.D. Khongwir :- 80 years ?

Prof. A. Warjri :- No, no 18 years, one and eight I was also serving in the night section for a long time and during those days we used to get our basic salary Rs.200 only and for the night section shift we used to get only Rs.100. Now while the basic pay has increased to Rs.750 the night section allowance remains the same and it was mainly due to this reason that many teachers submitted their resignation. I used to have four periods in the evening and six or seven periods in the day time. The fixation of the allowance given for the night shift was based on the salary that was fixed on the rate of the day shift. I would not go as far as to say that the Government should pay half of the present basic salary. But I would request that at least an adequate sum, of Rs.200 or Rs.250 for the night shift should be given. Otherwise, I am afraid that teachers will be interested to serve in the night shift and it has also come to my notice that in some colleges they have submitted their resignation to the principal. Because they do not see any fun in teaching in the evening section for a small amount of Rs.100. Some of the teachers are staying at Mawlai or in Mawkhar and they will have to go home by taxi which they will have to pay Rs.4 as taxi fare. If the teacher has to go by taxi daily his total taxi are will come to Rs.100 at least deducting Sundays. So, Sir, there is no fun in going for the night section classes. I, therefore, request the Government to take up immediate decision on the question of night shift classes in all colleges. Otherwise, it will be too late on the part of the Government to take the necessary action in time and I would like to request the Government to take up this matter very seriously and at the same time action should be taken. Then another thing which has come to my knowledge is that the teachers should be qualified or they should get Ph.D Degree to get the higher scale of pay. Even this chance has not been given to them. It was a very half-hearted chance to make them to do such studies and do such research. For example in the U.G.C. Research Fellowship Programme two teachers of Lady Keane College who have obtained research scholarship were not permitted by the department, that is, by the D.P.I. office to pursue their studies just because there are no substitutes for them, although the pay for these substitutes and for these teachers would be paid by the U.G.C. If we want our teachers or rather if the requirements of the U.G.C. to get M. Phil or Ph.D degrees are to be fulfilled then the teachers should be encouraged and substitutes should be found and they should be paid accordingly. Then last but not the least I would like to point out here regarding one section of the College teachers. Actually, I would like to know from the Government whether they have already sanctioned the pay for the Principals of the Colleges. There are 7 Colleges where the fixation of pay for these Principals has been done and whether sanction has been given for payment of the salaries to the Principals under the revised scale of pay. Then  I would like to come to some other points regarding the appointment of teachers for the various departments in the colleges. The load of work for the teachers in the colleges e.g. let us take a college having P.U. Arts with two years, then two years B.A. Pass and Honours Now I would like to know how the number of teachers is being determined. Then also generally it is well known that more or less the maximum number was 6 and if this is the pattern I would like to know how number 6 is reached for all the subjects. To make it more clear let us take for example English teachers. 6 teachers will have to teach in 1st Year P.U. Arts, 2nd Year P.U. Arts, 1st Year P.U. Science, 2nd Year P.U. Science, 1st Year P.U. Commerce, 2nd Year P.U. Commerce and then B.A. 1st Year, B.Sc. 1st Year, B.A. 2nd Year, B.Sc 2nd Year and B.A. 6 papers and B.Sc 6 paper and honours in the B.A. Arts and the principle fixed for all these is 6 numbers. How is the humanly possible for them to do these things ? Same is the case with the language teachers. Then another thing that has come lately is about the office pattern in the colleges under the deficit grant. What happens was there was an order and I do not like to read the whole order but the last part of it is that a college is entitled to one U.D.A, one U.D. Acctt. and 5 L.D.As for a college having 750 to 1000 students. I have nothing to say against that but I would like to ask if this is the pattern for such number of students, whether the Education Department has fixed the maximum that a college to admit more than 100 students. However there are certain colleges like the Shillong College, Lady Keane College and St. Anthony's College which have more than 1,500 students. Can we expect that this same fixed pattern can work the same way with colleges having 750 to 1000 students ? Therefore I want a clarification from the Government regarding this.

        Then lastly, before I take my seat Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to request Government to see that whenever a tribal is available for any subject in any college he should be appointed; of course, if he fulfills the requirements of 55 per cent. But I would also request that this should not be followed too strictly. The applicant may be 1 or 2 per cent less than 55 percent. I think there should be exception to rules always. If the rule is that a person reaching the age of 55 years should retire according to rule he should do so. But because of the need of that person Government can stretch his services for another one or two or three years. So I do not think that there is any difficulty in relaxing this rule also for this applicant who is short by one or two marks. Everywhere there is concession for the tribals in India. So here also I think there should be concession for tribals. Of course, with regard to teaching we cannot go lower or rather too low but if it is just a little less than 55 percent I think the Government should make some exception. With these few words I move my cut motion.

Shri. D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while rising to oppose the cut motion I have certain observations to make in this particular cut motion. Sir. ................

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, give us a chance atleast to support the cut motion.

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- There were occasions when the cut motion is allowed without being supported.

Shri. S.D. Khongwir :- We also from our side will allow the hon. Member to oppose.

Shri. A. Warjri :- Being an old teacher I think Mr. Joshi will support us.

*Shri. D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have already said that I will make few suggestions and observations as a teacher throughout my life. I have already said, while opposing that cut motion, Sir, a number of times on the floor of the House I have made several suggestions which the Government was kind enough to accommodate partially but not fully. Sir, in the matter of revised scale of pay to the school teacher of our State particularly to those serving in schools and colleges under the deficit system of grant the Governor was pleased to recommend that the present revised scale of pay would be given effect to from 1st  January, 1973. But in the case of school teacher falling under that category, the award ways partially made by accepting the principle to give effect from 1st day of November, 1976. But subsequently it was revised by the Government and the effect was given to from 1st April, 1975. So, Sir, I said it was implemented partially and most of the teachers serving in the schools under the deficit system of grant, are very much agitated. They are not satisfied. A number of times, they have sent representations to the Government expressing their dissatisfaction and copies of these representations have come to me as a public representatives. I cannot but sympathise with their cause because I know the teachers are the buildings of the nation. I feel they should have been give better emoluments than other public servants in other departments of the Government. But in our country, the teachers are the most poorly paid lot of the society. Now with the spread of education and the new consciousness emerging in the society, people are thinking that the lot of the teachers should be made better and in order to meet that end, other States in India are making periodical efforts to increase their pay structure so as to make the teachers economically free from anxieties to raise their status a little higher in the public estimation. But here in our State while the Governor himself has recommended that the present pay structure should be made available to the teachers with effect from 1st January 1973, the effect was given to from 1st April, 1975 which, to me seems to be unfair. I, on behalf of the little paid teachers of our State the teachers serving in schools under deficit system of grant, like to advocate their cause and suggest to the Government that the recommendation of the Governor should be strictly adhered to and the effect should be given from 1st January 1973, that is, the new pay structure should be made available to the teachers with effect from 1st January, 1973 instead of 1st April, 1975. Sir, besides the deficit schools and colleges there are teachers serving in colleges and schools which do not full under the deficit system or grant but fall under the ad-hoc system of grant. Though they are serving in schools and colleges under the ad-hoc system of grant, the task of teaching, the labour they have to put in teaching, the status is nonetheless inferior of less in quantum than the teachers serving in schools and colleges under the deficit system of grant. They have to spend the same amount of labour and same amount of time and energy. But in these schools and colleges, the pay and emolument they get is very low compared to the teachers serving in the institutions which fall under the deficit system of grant. So till such time these institutions are taken over under the deficit system of grant, the quantum of ad-hoc grant to these schools and colleges should be increased so that the teachers serving in these institutions get a little higher pay and hence be able to make their both ends meet in these hard days of price rise. They must get that amount of money which at least means their sustenance. They have also to live as honourable citizens with dignity and honour, but with this poor pay structure, we cannot expect them to lead a life of dignified citizens. So, Sir, I urge upon the Government through you, that the quantum of grants under the ad-hoc system of grant be increased to meet that end. Sir, a number of times I had occasion to suggest to the Government that M.E. Schools falling under the deficit system of grants, provision for clerical staff should be made. Up till now, the practice is that the Headmaster is required to attend to all correspondences, accounting and to prepare statements and returns of the school day in and day out. The head of the Institution hardly gets any time to visit classes or to devote himself to the academic side of their school. It is a very sorry state of affairs that the head of the institution, who is support to guide the subordinate teachers, who is supposed to visit every class personally to find out whether these classes are run in a proper way or to see if proper education is being imparted the students and who is also supposed to take up classes periodically is but debarred from attending to such academic aspect of the school. He has only to attend to the onerous task of office work right from the beginning till the classes are over. So I feel that the Government should create the post of a clerk in all M.E. Schools and grants should be made available to them in order to meet their required expenses for better administration of the schools'. This is a must.

        Sir, in most of these schools in Shillong and in other places of our State, I find that there is no playground where students can have their drills, where they can play and do their exercise to develop their mind and body. In the matter of sports, the Government of India some time back had taken up schemes and has urged upon the State Government  to see that at least one playground is made for three schools so that the children of these schools can have their physical exercises, drills and play sports and games in such a common play-ground. But here in our State even 10 schools also, do not have a common play-ground and in absence of a playground, we cannot expect our children to grow and improve as a sportsmen and women and we cannot expect them to develop their physical being as is required of a normal human being. So I urge upon this Government that they should go in to find out places where at least three or four schools can have one common playground. Sir, this is a matter of great concerned as far as national sports are concerned that our State should not be debarn from taking part. We feel we should not lag behind and we should create conditions where our young boys and girls can train themselves and compete with their counterparts from other parts of the country in the fields of sports and games. I hope our Government should come forward with schemes for making play-ground to promote sports in the State so that our students can have the benefit of playing and competing in the field of sports with other students coming from other States. In order to train up our young boys and girls to become better and keen sportsmen and women, it must be made compulsory and one period a day should be earmarked for training up the school children in the matter of sports so that in the near future our State also appears in the sports map of India.

Shri. P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I intervene ? The cut motion is to ventilate the grievances of all College and School teachers in the State, it is not for the play-grounds and sports of these Schools.

Shri. D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in order to promote education in various subjects play-grounds and fields should also be made available to them. Play-ground is also a dire necessity to the School and College teachers and it is one of the grievances of all the teachers because they are responsible for an all round development of all students in academic and physical fields. Sir, the Mover of the cut motion has referred to part time lecturers in night Colleges. I feel it is very hard to have part-time lecturers with only Rs.100 to be paid to them. As rightly stated, a part-time lecturer has to spend not less than Rs.100 when coming and going to and from the College by taxis. So if part-time lecturers are appointed the emoluments fixed for them should not be less than Rs.300 per month. But I feel, Sir, part-time lecturer in any College has to do the same type of work as full-time lecturer is doing. So it is not justified to carry on such a practice of appointing part-time lecturers because the unemployment problem for the educated youth of our State will be partially solved. Therefore, I urge upon this Government to see that this practice of appointing part-time lecturers should be gradually done away with, but Government should come forward with schemes of employing full-time lecturers because as I have already said, part-time lecturers have to put in the same kind of work in the Colleges, they have to exercise the same kind of energy and spend the same amount of time for the same kind of lecture in the College. But if we go in for full time lecturers in the College, then at least a few of our educated people in the State will be readily employed. Sir, in this deficit system of Schools and Colleges, the teachers are required to follow the Government Servants' Conduct Rules and when these teachers are required to follow the Government Servants' Rules all the facilities which are available to the Government servants should be made available to the college and school teachers under the deficit system of grants. While the Government servants get medical facilities, pension benefit, gratuity benefit, teachers serving in colleges and schools do not get. Otherwise they should be made not to follow Government Servants' Conduct Rules and should be treated as teachers serving in private schools and colleges or if they are at all required to follow the Government Servants' Conduct Rules they should be given all those facilities as the teacher is the builder of the nation who has to bring up the youngsters to their fullest extend of growth. They should not be deprived of pension and other benefits that are enjoyed by the Government servants. So, I strongly, urge upon the Government that in our State the teachers serving in the deficit system of schools and colleges should be given the benefit of people after retirement and all other benefits that are enjoyed by Government servants. With these words, Sir, I oppose the Cut Motion.

Shri. Jackman Marak :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, regarding education, I am very sorry, especially for the teachers of primary schools because here we have seen this revised scale of pay for teachers, for Khasi Hills Rs.1,40,000, Garo Hills Rs.1,22,000 and for Jaintia Hills Rs.68,000 altogether it comes to Rs.3,30,000 for the primary school teachers according to the revised scale of pay. But Sir, here I want to point that the teachers of primary schools, I do not know about the schools in Khasi Hills, but I know about the difficulties of the teachers in Garo Hills will appreciate this Government. Money has been already sanctioned to that District Council for payment to the teachers of primary schools. So, Sir, what is happening there ? The teachers are not getting their pay from March, 1977 upto this month of June. So far the information I received from the District Council authority that these primary teachers will even get their current pay in the month of July, 1977. Is it possible ? Primary School teachers are also human beings. So Sir, if any one like to ask why did you not go to school they will reply "we are not getting our current pay so we should go to the jungle in search of food otherwise our children may die without food". So Sir, here I urge upon the Government to see to these troubles because we did not known the trouble, but schools  teachers have their troubles. What is this I am getting pain in my body nobody knows, but teachers know teachers duties. Members known their own duties. If you go to the villages you will get some harsh words from them and in place of teachers the villagers will come forward to you and will give you some big big words : "You the M.L.As you the MDCs are not giving pay to our primary school teachers. You are indirectly killing our children. You are not willing to give us good education. These things happened Sir. So Sir, I would suggest to the Government through you, though it may be outside the purview of this House but as the District Council is also one of the Government agencies let the teachers get their revised pay scale and get their current pay. If it continues like this in future it will affect politically and socially, it will seriously affect all the political parties. So Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, these M.E. School teachers also are not getting their regular grants-in-aid. Some of the schools like the Government Aided M.E. School teachers are not receiving their pay up till now. Because those schools are situated in the interior places, there is no good communication to go up to the office of the Deputy Inspector of Schools. So I would request Government at least to look into the matter and these district schools authorities should be informed to regularise their grant-in-aid. And another trouble, I would like to mention here, Sir, regarding building construction grants. This is also one of the grievances of the teachers and of the villagers. Some of the Government Aided M.E. Schools have been receiving their grant regularly but some M.E. Schools do not get their building grant since their establishment. Sir, particularly the M.E. School in my areas. This is Mitapgri Government Aided M.E. School. For the last three years they have applied for building grant a number of times but there was no response from the authorities. This is a fact I brought to this august House. So, Sir, I request Government through you, to see and consider this school which is not getting building construction grants, in future, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Moreover not only this. Most of the Government aided high schools in Garo Hills do not get grants regularly. Yes, I believe some of the Government aided high schools have received grants. Why this is going on in this District? Not only in one district but all over the State of Meghalaya due to the fact that many high schools were opened in the last few years. That is why now, some of the officers are getting trouble in our State.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Mr. Marak, it appears that you have not got the main point. It is in the same Tokungkho area. So you are to combine only the specific points in the motion.

Shri. Jackman Marak :- Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is also one of the grievances of the teachers and the villagers, not only salaries of the teachers, not only negligence of the teachers. These are some of the grievances. So I will not speak much. I request the Government, through you, to do these things immediately so that the public and the officers will be very happy. With these few words, I resume my seat, Sir.

Shri. Y. Fuller Lyngdoh :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, participating in the cut motion moved by my hon. friend from Mawkhar I wish to have a say on the matter of how the revision of the scales of the L.P. School teachers was done by our Government. As it appears from the arrear drawn by the L.P. school teachers recently, revision is made for some categories we have seen that the confirmed Government L.P. school teachers have drawn the arrear from the 1st April, 1973 while unconfirmed Government L.P. School teachers have draw only from 1st November, 1976.

        The Junior L.P. and Basic Schools teachers are also drawing from the 1st of November, 1976. So also the District Council L.P. School teachers are drawing their arrear from the 1st of November, 1976. Here I see that there is an irregularity and I do not understand why revision of pay scale of those Primary School teachers should not be done as it was done for the confirmed Government L.P. School teachers. Here again, we see that there is a kind of inequitable consideration on the part of the Government. Another thing, Sir, is that we learned that this revision of the pay scale of the L.P. School teaches is being followed from what the Government of Assam had done. At present our Government is following blindly without considering the needs and necessity for giving the revised scale of pay according to the need of the teachers in our State, as it is in the present days. Sir, another point is that it is also learnt that some junior high school teachers are getting promotion, while the senior most high school teachers are not at all getting promotion. This is really a very unpleasant thing on the part of the teachers because if those teachers who are most senior do not get their promotion and when they are superseded by the junior teachers, this will affect them  very much. Not only that they will lose the interest in serving the institution as a teacher but also in other sphere of Government jobs. So I would urge upon the Government, through you, Sir, to kindly see that these irregularities should not be in their in the Education Department in giving promotion to the teachers and also that the revision of the pay scale for those L.P. School teachers as well as for the staff of the Education Department, should be done not only by simply following what the Government of Assam had done. With these few words, Sir, I support the Cut Motion.

*Shri. Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support the Cut Motion moved by my friend from Mawkhar. Sir, we are discussing the grievances of the College and School teachers. Of course, on the College Teachers, the hon. Mover has already brought forward and enumerated the grievances. But my point is to confine only to the grievances of the school teachers. Here, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while talking of the grievances of the School Teachers, it may also involve the policy matter but whatever it is, it pertains to the grievances. Sir, it is a very sad thing to know that our Government for so long had been considering only the grievances of the school teachers belonging to the Government Schools. So far, and so much also has been discussed mostly about the welfare viz-a-viz the grievances of the Teachers of the Government School. But we have mostly neglected the bulk of Schools in the interior and rural areas of our State. Most of them are not Government Schools but which have been aided by the Government. Sir, these aided Schools are more than Government Schools in number and if we note their performance will find that those aided schools are run better and they performed better and produced better results than the Government run Schools. But the grievances of the teachers of those aided Schools have not been looked into so far. Sir, I would like to say here that these aided Schools are mostly in the interior, especially, the Middle English Schools the majority of Middle English School being aided by the Government are mostly in the rural areas. The present national police of for everything they say is that they wanted to have a rural base for every development. So long there have been talks like that the rural development are being done first in the towns, cities or the seat of administration. But we have neglected so much the rural areas. Sir, if I may remind the House that the Middle English Schools are being aided by the Government only to the tune of 350 or to about 500 rupees per month for their general maintenance that includes Salaries and maintenance of the schools. Everything is included there. Sir, with this 350 or 400 rupees per month which have been given or aided by Government and to those schools, will it suffice to run those schools, Sir, will they suffice to pay to two or three teachers ? I have seen that in the interior most of these schools appoint about 4 or 5 teachers in one school. I will refer only to the M.E. schools. So with this amount it will be very difficult for them to have qualified teachers to see even to the welfare of the teachers to meet both ends. Naturally with only Rs.300 or Rs.400 and if they have to pay all the teachers and the Headmasters, than the Headmaster will get hardly Rs.200 and the other teachers only Rs.100 or so each. How can they pull on with life because we know that in the interior the villagers who run the schools do not have capital resources for any extra payment to teachers whom they have appointed. These villagers depend mostly on the grants for the Government. As I have said early, it may involve the policy also; but I would suggest that we pay more attention to these rural M.E. Schools if we want our people, our students who are coming up in the interior, to come up as per the required standard. So grants should be extended and I mean also the ad-hoc grants should be given to them at least at par with the actual pay of the actual pay of the teachers in the Government - run - schools. Suppose the Government used to pay Rs.250 or Rs.300 per month for a teacher in a Government run Schools. So also they should calculated together that amount of how much in it comes to per month in those schools. So the amounts of grants should be given at least equal to the pay of those teachers in the Government run schools because I know that in such Government  schools not run the pay of teachers but also for the whole administration, including the office staff and maintenance, etc., the Government would spend spend money. However, with regard to those other schools, I do not want to say that the Government should bear everything. But at least, the bare pay should be equal and, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if the Government could do this at least justice will be done to the teachers in the aided schools who are especially in the interior areas. Therefore, I have only this point to make and I would also support the views of the hon. Member from Mairang who have spoken before me on the variations of the revised D.A. recently recommended by the Government.

        The other point is with regard to the statement of the Government in the House. The revised D.A. will be effective from 1st November, 1976, whereas in the Government Press Note, which we have seen, it is to be affective from 1st April, 1975. So I would like to be clarified as to which we should take as correct because this had misled us. I also understand that some teachers have been paid from the 1st November, 1976, and some from 1st April, 1975, and still others have been paid from 1st April, 1973. So all these things are confusing. I think the Minister will clarify all those points. With these few words, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support the Cut Motion.

Shri. D.D. Pugh :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, a short while ago, the Hon'ble Education Minister had enquired if I would be participating in the discussion on the cut motion now before the House. At that time I had indicated my reply in the negative. But listening to the speeches of the hon. Members which have participated in the discussion on the cut motion before the House, I was reminded of a case of a certain school lying about 3 miles away from the centre of the town. I am raising this point, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, because the teachers of that particular school feel aggrieved  because naturally non-sanction of a grant that they expected to be sanctioned affects them either financially or facility-wise or both. I am making this point to avoid any intervention on the part of the Minister by raising a point of order. Now, in respect of this school which I shall not name, which lies at a distance of about 3 miles from the centre of the town, the Department had proposed that a certain grant be sanctioned to this particular school. When the file got to the Minister, turned down the proposal on the  grounds that he wanted to give that particular benefit to a school in the deep interior and consequently, the Minister ordered on the file that the grant be not given to school 'A' but to school 'B' which existed in the deep interior. But when the file got back to the Department pointed out the various difficulties in sanctioning this grant to school 'B' and they showed how this school did not qualify to receive the grant because of the various inadequacies in the school. Subsequently the file came back to the Minister and the Minister selected yet another school 'C' which according to me, is right within the jurisdiction of the town itself. Now, I do not wish, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, to cast any aspiration on the Hon'ble Minister concerned when I say that I hope that this decision was not guided by political considerations. May I remind the hon. member of the oath that he took or must have taken when he was sworn in as a Minister. The form of oath of office for a Minister of State: "I, A.B., do swear in the name of God that I will bear solemnly affirm, true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of India as by law established that I will uphold the sovereignty and integrity of India, that I will faithfully and conscientiously discharge my duties as a Minister and that I will do right to all manner of people in accordance with the Constitution and the law, without fear or favour, affection or ill-will". I emphasise the fact, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that either the Minister had sworn or solemnly affirmed that he would discharge his duties as a Minister without fear or favour, affection or ill-will. The point I am trying to drive home is that this House and the people of Meghalaya expect justice and fair-play even in small matters of sanctioning grants to this school or sanctioning it to another school and so on and so forth. While still on the subject, i.e. the need for justice and fair-play I would like to remind the Hon'ble Minister yet another case of border M.E. School which is located at Pynursla within Lyngkyrdem L.A. Constituency. Now as the House perhaps knows, this school was started right at the time of Assam, during the time we formed part of the composite State of Assam, this school even today continues to be housed in a dilapidated building. I am informed that the plans and estimates for new building have already been prepared and that the foundation - stone has already been laid but most unfortunately though the foundation had been laid almost a year and a half ago, the work on the construction of the school building has not yet been started. I hope in the interest of justice and fair-play, the Minister will kindly consider the advisability of issuing necessary instruction to start the work of construction.

Shri. Jormanick Syiem :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support this cut motion. It is a general complaint in the schools located in the interior that they are not getting anything which they deserve.

Shri. P.G. Marbaniang (Minister of Education) :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think they have taken too much laltitude on this particular cut motion. This is a token cut motion to ventilate the grievances of the College and School teachers in the State.

Shri. D.D. Pugh :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if the teachers are affected financially or facilities of school buildings are not open, the standard or quality of teaching suffers and in this context I discussed that question.

        (The Deputy Speaker left the Chamber and Shri. Plansing Marak, Chairman, took the Chair)

Shri. Jormanik Syiem :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, if that covers, I may continue. I was saying that at these schools are not getting yet what they deserve. Some of them are getting a very step-motherly treatment. Even promise and assurances which they were given are not implemented. I will refer to one particular school in my constituency. It is true that every school should get encouragement. I would say that this school is a progressive institution and even not very far from the town it also deserves all the help. There the teacher are very poorly paid and very ill-equipped . Equipments that were sanctioned before were not yet supplied. Now this particular school which I am referring to is a school where the teacher had been awarded National Award for efficiency. This is Pomlum High School, Upper Shillong. It has got the Nursery Wing upto High School. Even after time and again representations were made, the teachers are still poorly paid. It was represented to the Department through the D.I. and Inspector of Schools. Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to draw the attention of the Minister through you, Sir, to the fact that this school be properly aided as it deserves. There are also other schools in which the teachers are very poorly paid. With these few words I support the cut motion.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would inject very briefly one or two points. It is hardly necessary to emphasise the need that the school and college teachers be paid in a more equitable manner. We know, we have not been able to do justice to them and there is much more to be done. I do not longer want to press the matter at this stage. I would only try to draw the attention of the House, particularly the Minister of Education, to the difficulties and problems which certain category of teachers of our schools and colleges are facing today. This I am referring to those teachers who have been appointed under certain schemes known as half-a-million jobs programme. We all, know, Sir, that half-a-million jobs programme is a scheme in which the young educated men and women were taken to various Departments for a certain period of time with a view to ultimately absorbing them in the respective Departments. I know in most of the Departments all these categories of workers have been absorbed either permanently or almost on permanent basis. But in the case of teachers who have been appointed under half-a-million jobs programme, it is sad to say that nothing has been done. They are neither here nor there. Their condition is really pitiable. Now the cases of the school teachers. Governments schools teachers or aided schools teachers have been taken care of by getting their revised scale of pay, but their case has not been taken up. I think a representation was given to the Hon'ble Chief Minister with a copy to the Minister concerned. I am sure it would be looked into seriously. I hope the Minister, who is nodding his head, would consider this sympathetically.

        Now, the other point I would like to raise is about the payment of salary to primary teachers. It is these primary schools which keep close contact with the people in the villages and I believe their case deserve consideration on a high priority. However meagre pay they are getting, as the hon. Mover has said that their pay is even less than the peons, that too they are not getting regularly. We know, in some cases this teachers are being paid in lump-sum for 2/3 months or even much later I believe this is because of lack of co-ordination between the Government and the District Council and perhaps the Government has not attended to this case very particularly. Therefore, I would suggest that the difficulties and problems faced by the primary school teachers should be attended with more seriousness and let us say that mind or attitude that their grievances should be justly redressed. With these few words I resume my seat.

Shri. P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, while replying on the cut motion moved by the hon. Member from Mawkhar, I would like to thank him and the other Members of this august House also who have participated in the Cut Motion and the different suggestions that they have given for meeting or for improving the living conditions of our teachers teaching in Colleges and Schools. Sir, the Government is very much aware and concerned about the the welfare of the teachers of both the Colleges and Schools by improving their service conditions and their pay scales also. However, the Government is handicapped in achieving all these improvements to the extend they deserve due to paucity of funds. However, within the limited capacity of Government it has been possible to extend a revised pay scales for the Colleges teachers according to  the U.G.C. recommendation and also revised pay scales to Government Schools, High Schools, M.E. Schools, Primary Schools and deficit grant Schools are also included. And this we have done with a view to ameliorate the living conditions of our teachers. Because we know that the future of the State lies on the teachers. About grants to Primary Schools, as the hon. Members know that the management of the Primary Schools is under the District Councils excepting those Schools in the Shillong Municipal area and the Government have sanctioned grants to the District Councils towards payment of salaries of the teachers of Primary Schools. This, the hon. Members, know very well. The Government is however concerned about inconvenience caused to the Primary School teachers for non-receipt of their pay regularly. This depends very much on the District Councils and this case should be taken up by the District Councils themselves. In the recent months we have given an advanced salary to all the three District Councils in spite of the fact that the Khasi Hills District Council has not been able to submit the utilisation certificate. But in spite of that we have released an advance grant to them so that they can pay to the teachers. Regarding Primary School teachers, M.E. School teachers and the High Schools teaches as you all know that we have revised the pay scales from 1st April, 1975.

Prof. A. Warjri :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, may I know from the Hon'ble Minister whether by saying the revised pay scale of High Schools teachers, it also includes all the High Schools or only the deficit Schools ?

Shri. P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education) :- Yes, Mr. Chairman, Sir, only the deficit Schools. Now about Primary Schools, the Government have sanctioned the money and it is the responsibility of the respective District Council to give the revised pay scales to the Primary School teachers. The Government have also called for detailed information from all the District on the procedure of disbursement of salaries to the Primary School teachers. Unfortunately, no reply has been received from the Councils except an interim reply from the Khasi Hills District Council. So, as you can see we are awaiting their replies and after that we shall write to them in the best way as to how to disburse the salaries of the Primary School teachers. And Sir, about the deficit system, the hon. Mover has said that more Schools should be brought under the deficit system. The Government is doing that, but as you have rightly pointed out that most of the Schools in and around Shillong are non-Tribal Schools which have received the deficit grant and as such the Government is thinking and the consideration is mostly given to the Tribal Schools. Moreover, the Government is considering to give such grants to the Schools in the rural areas. Last year we have extended to all the Schools in the rural areas the benefit of this deficit system except one in Shillong and two in Tura. Now Sir, we want to continue this policy so that assistance is given to those areas which really need it very badly and that is what we have decided now. And Sir, about the pay to be unified, it is not possible on the part of the Government. As you know that we give adhoc recurring grants to the Schools which have received permission to start the School and this depends on the number of students reading in the Schools and to say that we have given uniform salary to all the teachers in all the Schools is actually not possible to do so, because it depends on the number of years of Schools in existence, teachers who are teaching in the Schools and the amount.

        Sir, regarding the question of given gratuity to the College teachers and also regarding contribution towards Provident Fund, it is under active consideration of the Government and also about the retired teachers as you have said about the the gratuity - if you remember that the Chief Minister had told that their cases will be considered on individual application, and the Department concerned is examining these cases. Sir, about night section Colleges, this is under very active consideration of the Government and the Government will take a decision very soon. Sir, about two teachers in the Lady Keane College, who want to go for fellowship study, this is the general policy of the Government that teachers teaching in Government deficit Colleges will get all facilities to better their qualification so that they can go for M.Ph. Ph.D. and for that we do not obstruct and we want that they should enjoy it. And then regarding the third grade of course it does not come here in this discussion. So I will not reply to that.

        Tribals are always given preference in giving appointment but there is no relaxation on the 55 per cent and the teachers have been told that the U.G.C. itself has written to the Government that no relaxation can be made on this 55 percent marks or B grade standard. Then the Hon. Member from Shillong Cantonment has spoken about the revised pay scales to be given effect to from 1st March, 1973. I am sorry to say that because of paucity of funds Government will not be in a position to extend it to more than 1st April 1975. Then about the adhoc recurring grants the Government every year increases the grant and distributes it to all the schools that are receiving grants. Some may get 50 rupees extra and some may get 100 rupees extra depending on the number of students and the number of staff in the schools. Play-grounds do not fall within this cut motion. I will not reply to that. It is not true that the deficit teachers teaching in deficit schools are governed by the Government Servants Conduct Rules. I think about the motion moved by Mr. Jackman Marak from Chockpot I have answered to the points raised by him on primary education and we are awaiting replies from the District Councils and we shall suggest methods to the Government so that the teachers are not paid once in six months because grants have been given to the District Council in advanced. So why should the teachers get their salaries once in six months, in fact the teachers should get advance payment of their salaries.

Shri. S.D. Khongwir :- Is the Minister suggesting ?

Shri. P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education) :- I do not suggest anything. The hon. Member from Mairang has raised the point on confirmed Government school teachers and unconfirmed teachers. This point I shall ask the Department to examine and we shall set matters right. Of course, according to the needs of the teachers, the need of every man is heavier. So we cannot go according to the needs but we can give according to the prescribed formula to see that their living conditions are improved. About this question of a junior teacher in a High School who has been promoted instead of a senior teacher. I would request the hon. Member to give a note on this mentioning the name of the school and the name of the teacher and the department shall look into it. The hon. Member from Mawkyrwat I think has made his point about assistance being given to those areas where assistance is very badly needed.

Shri. Rowell Lyngdoh :- What about variation of those dates ?

Shri. P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education) :- 1st April, 1975. The hon. Member from Nongshken has pointed out about a school three miles from here I do not remember about this file being given to me and taken back to the department. I do not understand how he would know about what has been written in the file. It is very unfortunate that such a thing has happened but it shall be looked into. Of course, construction of M.E. School building at Pynursla I think I will not reply. The hon. Member from Jaiaw said about this half a million jobs to teachers. The Government is considering the matter very actively about the improvement of the lot of primary school teachers. That  I have explained. With these few assurances that this will be taken up immediately I would request the hon. Member from Mawkhar to withdraw the cut motion.

Shri. Jormanik Syiem :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, may we know from the Minister in-charge if anything has been done for 7th mile L.P. School ?

Shri. E. Bareh (Minister, P.W.D) :- That does not fall under this cut motion.

Shri. A. Warjri :- Before I withdraw the cut motion I would like to say something. I mentioned the number of deficit schools being 18 and 12 non-tribals and 6 tribals. I saw that at that time the Minister is wagging his head. That show I am correct.

Shri. P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education) :- I would not say that you are correct. I am not wagging my head. I cannot give you the number off hand.

Shri. A. Warjri :- But your officers can pass over something to you. Then also about the deficit schools, I will not ask the Minister to give any reply on that. But I want give a suggestion that in order to determine a school or a college to come under the deficit system there should be a criterion or some criteria for this. Some condition should be there e.g. the number of teachers, number of students and so on.

Shri. P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education) :- The hon. Member is also a member of the Consultative Committee on Education.

Shri. A. Warjri :- At least I am helping you. What I place in the House is quite different. I think there should be some criteria as there are schools which have got only a few students where as there are schools having 500 students which should get preference. Then regarding the District Council schools Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to say that this that since the Government and as a matter of fact this House which votes the budget, I think all these years we have been too lenient and the Government has every right, since it is the sanctioning authority of this grant, to know what has been done regarding the grants given to the District Councils. As I have suggested during my speech regarding the monthly returns to be submitted by the District Councils, the Department of Education in the District Council Office an at least give these returns monthly to the Government, i.e. to the Education Department. Then the Minister misunderstood me regarding these non-deficit schools, private schools that have been opened that sprung up like mushrooms all over which are giving pay to teachers that cannot even be called  the salary. What I was saying is not to fix the uniform pay but the minimum pay that these teachers should get. It may not be at par with the deficit schools, but at least there should be a minimum according to the qualification of haste teachers who are employed in these schools. Regarding night section, I would request the Government since the P.U.C results have come out that whatever decision is made the colleges should be given instruction immediately that admission should be kept in abeyance till the Government has made its decision. Then, there is one point which I have made which the Minister has refused to reply and that is the office pattern. But still I would request him to look into this because it is very important and it affects the teachers. In dealing with the colleges, they have to deal mostly with the office. Last but most important point is that some of the members who have expressed their views have mentioned about the rules - whether they are governed by the rules and the Minister said that they are not governed by the rules and the Minister said that they are not governed by Government rules. For the last 5 years, the Government have been sanctioning huge grants to schools and colleges and yet Government seem to have no control over the schools and colleges and they are still following the old rules of the Assam aided schools. I wish that Government should consider very seriously about framing the rules for these aided schools and college so that we can have our own rules which may be quite different from those prevailing in those days in Assam. With these words, I do not want more reply from that side and I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Chairman :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion (voices - yes, yes) The cut motion with the leave of the House is withdrawn. Now, Mr. Jackman Marak.

Shri. Jackman Marak :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I think my point has already been covered. I will not move my cut motion.

Mr. Chairman :- Now I put the question that an amount of Rs.5,53,55,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "277 - Education".

 (The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

Grant No.32

Shri. E. Bareh (Minister, Public Works Department) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.4,75,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "277 - Education - 280 - Medical etc".

Mr. Chairman :- Motion moved. And since there is no cut motion, I put the question is that an amount of Rs.4,75,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "277 - Education - 280 - Medical etc".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed).

Grant No.33

Shri. P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.7,75,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "278 - Art and Culture".        

Mr. Chairman :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question that an amount of Rs.7,75,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "278 - Art and Culture".        

 (The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

Grant No.34

Shri. P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.2,37,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "279 - Scientific Services and Research".        

Mr. Chairman :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question that an amount of Rs.2,37,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "279 - Scientific Services and Research".        

  (The motion was carried and the demand was passed).

Grant No.35.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- Before Grant No.35 is moved. I have a point of order to raise under Grant No.35, the House is to vote for Rs.1,71,55,000. If we go through the papers, we will see that at page 246 of Volume II of the Budget, there is an amount of Rs.65,000 against No.10 which is the amount transferred from "267 - Aid Materials and Equipments" being the value of foreign aid materials and supplies received from Central Government under T.B. Control Programme. Again at  page 247 against V.D. Control Programme - Material and supplies .. we have the amount of Rs.5,000 amount transferred from "267 - Aid Materials and Equipments" being the value of material and supplies received from Central Government under V.D. Control Programme. Just below, we have an amount of Rs.15,000. This is the amount transferred from "267 - Aid Materials and Equipments" being the value of foreign aid materials and supplies received from Central Government under National Trachoma Control Programme. Now, this amount of Rs.65,000 in page 246 and then an amount of Rs.5,000 in page 247 and also an amount of Rs.15,000 in page 247, the total comes to Rs.85,000 and this amount we have already voted under Grant No.27 which will be found in page 153. You will see that we have already voted under Grant No.27 which will be found in page 153. You will see that we have already moved this Grant to defray certain charges for payment in connection with aid materials. Please refer to PP. 153, 154 and 155. You will find that these amounts are found in page 155 -  Rs.65,000. Then Rs.5,000 you will find at p. 155. Then again Rs.15,000 you will find at p 155. My point of order is that we have already voted these amounts under Grant No.27. Now again this amount has come in Grant No.35. How do we vote twice the some amount ?

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, it is a budgetary procedure under the revised classification and revised accounting procedure which has been evolved by Comptroller and Auditor General of India. The value of aid materials and equipments received from the Government of India has to be booked under the head "267 - Aid Materials" under Grant No.27. However, the aid materials received from the Government of India may be utilised by various departments of the Government. To enable these departments to incur expenditure for such aid materials, etc. necessary provision have to be made in their respective head of accounts and necessary authorisation received from the State Legislative and unless such authorisation is received from the State Legislative for incurring the expenditure under respective head of accounts, it will not be possible to incur the expenditure. So, provision is made to the extent required under different head of accounts. But even though provision is made under the head "267" for this expenditure, there will be the element of double authorisation and this is very essential to enable the Department to spend for utilisation of the materials. However, double authorisation will not lead to double expenditure. It is only the procedure that has been laid down by the Comptroller and Auditor General of India.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, my point is that we on this side of the House are not Budget experts. But we have already voted under Grant No.27 an amount of Rs.85,000. We have already voted to defray charges for payment and now again this amount is coming here. It almost means a double authorisation. Now the point that has  been raised by the Chief Minister, the Leader of the House is that double authorisation does not mean double expenditure. This point is very important and a vital budgeting point which I think the House has to be fully understood about its implication because I would not agree that the amount should be authorised for two or three or four times but there will be no expenditure and there might be a situation for spending the amount at a much later stage. You see, I would have thought a different procedure should have seen adopted in order to avoid double authorisation. Therefore, Sir, I feel to be fully convinced on this point and I believe we have to deal very carefully otherwise it might lead to a very serious budgeting implication.

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- I have made it very clear that according to rules and procedure adopted by the Comptroller and Auditor General of India that amount has been booked under the head "267" and the Department which will utilise this amount is the Health Department. Now Mr. Chairman, Sir, the necessity of bringing this amount under the head "267" is to enable the Health Department with the authorisation of the State Legislature, to spend this amount for the required materials. Unless and until this amount is indicated in the Budget under a particular head of the Health Department to utilise the materials, there will be some difficulty. That is why it is according to the procedure laid down by the Comptroller and Auditor General of India that this amount had to be booked here. There is no point of order.

Mr. Chairman :- I think with that explanation, the House is satisfied. Are you satisfied Mr. Kyndiah ?

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- No. I am not satisfied. I think this will lead to a very serious problem.

Shri. Sandford K. Marak (Minister-in-charge of Health) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.1,71,55,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March 1978 for the administration of the head "280 - Medical".

Mr. Chairman :- Motion moved. I have received cut motions which stand in the name of Shri. S.P. Swer, Shri. Alexander Warjri, Shri. S.D. Khongwir and Shri. Jackman C. Marak.

Shri. S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to point out that this is not a policy cut. The hon. Members want to take a discussion on the performance of the Department in commissioning and running hospitals and dispensaries, etc. it is out of order.

Mr. Chairman :- The cut motion which stands in the names of Shri. Alexander Warjri, and other hon. Members I rule out of order.

Prof. Alexander Warjri :- You did not give us a chance.

Mr. Chairman :- I already ruled it out.

Shri. D.D. Pugh :- But this grant has not been moved.

Mr. Chairman :- But before I asked Prof. Alexander Warjri to move his cut motion, the Minister-in-charge has pointed out that it is out of order.

Shri. S.D. Khongwir :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, let us be a little bit serious on this. The procedure is that the Minister-in-charge should move the Grant and after moving the Grant then we will have our discussion on it.

Shri. W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- This Grant was moved, but you have ruled out that the cut motions were out of order.

Shri. G. Mylliemngap :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, the Hon'ble Minister has only raised a point of order, he has not moved the Grant as yet.

Shri. F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State in-charge of Printing and Stationery etc.) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, if they are not satisfied let them go to the record.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :-  To my knowledge, Mr. Chairman, Sir, I don't remember he has moved the Grant. In case he has not moved since it is a serious thing, let us look at the records.

Shri. Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I have moved and I do not forget all these things.

Mr. Chairman :- The Minister has already moved and then before I ask Prof. Alexander Warjri and other movers of the Cut Motion, he has pointed out some irregularities in the cut motions and so accordingly, I have given my ruling that it is out of order.

Shri. D.D. Pugh :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, it is very correct that you have entertained the point of order raised by the Minister concerned, but you did not give us an opportunity even to answer to that point of order.

Mr. Chairman :- I am fully satisfied as the Chairman that after hearing the Minister concerned, I have given my ruling.

        Now another Cut Motion is in the name of Shri. S.D. Khongwir.

Shri. S.D. Khongwir :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.1,71,55,000 under Grant No.35, Major Head "280 - Medical" at page 220 of the Budget be reduced to Re.1 i.e. the amount of the whole Grant of Rs.1,71,55,000 do stand reduced to Re.1.

Mr. Chairman :- Motion moved and now you can initiate the discussion.

*Shri. S.D. Khongwir :- Well Mr. Chairman, Sir, I will be brief in so far as this Cut Motion is concerned because this is the ..... (interruption) and we are still under Grant No.35 and we have got only two more days for voting on demands. So despite the fact that I consider this as a very important matter, I will be brief. I will jut go to the point that I wanted to raise for the improvement of the welfare of the nurses. Mr. Chairman, Sir, earlier I have had the occasion to speak about the welfare of the nurses. It has been a couple of years ago and yesterday when I met some of my friends in the Opposition Room one of them quipped, "Mr. Khongwir, you have become the 'Uncle" of the nurses.

(laughter) (A noise - father-in-law)

        In fact Mr. Chairman, Sir, we are too concerned about this noble profession. Mr. Chairman, Sir, I believe that each one of us has in some way or other come into contact with the services of the nurses while staying in the hospitals or may be some hon. Members, a Minister or Chief Minister or any Member may have occasion to have the noble services of nurses in their own residence. So as I have already indicated earlier I will be very brief on this very important matter and I will just give some suggestions by way of discussing the present policy of the Government in so far as the welfare of the nurses is concerned. First of all, I would like to remind the Government that it is a fact that the Government are giving what it is called Kit allowance and not 'Kid' allowance for the uniforms of the nurses and I understand Mr. Chairman, Sir, that this allowance is a very meagre sum given to the nurses per annum. I believe that the nurses are getting only about Rs.40 to Rs.50 per annum for their uniforms. While the other day when we discussed about the police, the hon. Member from Nongtalang had suggested that we can afford to have a dirty policeman because his dirtiness will show the amount of work that is carried out by him. But it is not the same in the case of nurses. We would like our nurses in the hospital to be spick and span in their dresses. In the United States of America there is a word 'chic'. So Mr. Chairman, Sir, we would like our nurses to be very clean. When I say clean it means their outside appearances the stockings, shoes and various other paraphernalia. So I would suggest to the Government that it is impossible for the nurses to manage with this very meagre allowance of Rs.40 to 50 per annum.

        Another point Mr. Chairman, Sir, is about messing allowance. Indeed, it will be a mess if the Government will not see to the increase of the messing allowance of the nurses and I also understand that this allowance is confined only to a certain category of nurses and all the nurses are not getting this messing allowance. May be it is only the assistants, the matrons or the Sisters-in-charge who get this allowance.

        Another point, Mr Chairman, Sir, is about the medical facilities that are extended to the nurses. It is fact, of course, I stand corrected I would suggest as it is in the case of Government employees and also in the case of the Members of this august House themselves. These medical facilities should also be extended to the dependant or members of the families of the nurses because, as I have said earlier, these facilities, as I understand, are extended only to the nurses individually and not to the members or the dependants of the nurses.

        Another point, Mr. Chairman, Sir, that I would like to speak its about confirmation of the nurses. I have the occasion to speak about 2 years ago in this very same august House and also through you Mr. Chairman, Sir, to the same incumbent of the Department, the persons who was incharge is the same Minister who is in charge now of this Department. There are cases of nurses who have been serving in various hospitals and dispensaries continuously for about 14 or 15 years and yet their cases of confirmation have not been taken up. I am not well conversant with the rules, Mr. Chairman, Sir, but I think that certain privileges were denied since confirmation has not been given I understand this is the provision of the rules governing the services of our nurses.

        Yet another point is about the posting of the nurses in the interior. Some years ago, Mr. Chairman, Sir, we have had a discussion about the difficulties on the part of the Government to get doctors to go to the interior and the Government had rightly decided to give some incentives to the doctors. So, Mr. Chairman, Sir, as one of the uncles of the (A Voice - Not father-in-law) ? I would really pleaded with the Government that it should seriously think about this problem of posting of nurses in the interior because, Mr. Chairman, Sir, nobody would desire to go because of difficulties in communication, transportation education for the children, two establishment and all that. Mr. Chairman, Sir, the difficulty of the doctors and nurses and other categories of Government  employees is well known to us in so far as those serving in the interior are concerned and as it stands to-day Mr. Chairman, Sir, we encounter a lot of difficulties and problems in getting the nurses to go to the interior. If I am not mistaken, Mr. Chairman, Sir, from the Government site, they have not yet decided upon giving an incentive to the nurses who would like to serve in the interior. If the Government has not yet decided on this important point, I would suggest to the Government through you, Mr. Chairman, Sir, to be ready or decide to offer incentives to the nurses for serving in the interior.

        Another point, Mr. Chairman, Sir, is regarding the transfer and postings of the nurses. Mr. Chairman, Sir, I have received a lot of verbal complaints. Of course nobody would be writing to us to complain about the action and inaction and negligence of the Government but we have received several verbal complaints from the nurses about the policy of the Government in so far as posting and transfer of the nurses are concerned. I think the Government will have to be very strict, very firm. It has to take a very strong decision, a policy decision so far as the posting of the nurses is concerned because as I have said earlier, Mr. Chairman, Sir, there are two areas where the nurses are supposed to serve. One is outside the city or the town and other is the within the urban area. Now, Mr. Chairman, Sir, for a person to serve in the interior, the Government will have to decide before hand about the length of service, whether a particular nurse will have to serve in the interior for more than one year or two years and if that particular nurse has served in the interior for a certain length of time, she will be helped for transfer to the area closer to town. So, I would suggest to the Government that they should also consider about this so that when a policy is fixed 'a policy is decided it will be made known to all concerned and nobody will come either to the Minister or public representative to gives a complaint against the action of the Government. And also, Mr. Chairman, Sir, we have received a lot of complaints from the nurses and with due respect to the Minister-in-charge, we have received several complaints regarding the wanton interferences by the Minister in so far as posting and transfer of the nurses are concerned. A certain order has been issued and somebody went to the Minister and the Minister would interfere and this how that the Government has not got a certain policy with regard to the posting and transfer of the nurses. It is quite well for the Government to take a decision in this matter. And Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would also like to touch on another point and that is with regard to the training of the nurses in hospitals other than the Ganesh Das Hospital and the Civil Hospital. I mean to refer, as an example, in Shillong to the Welsh Mission Hospital now called the Khasi Hills Presbyterian Hospital and the Presbyterian Hospital at Jowai. I do not now about Garo Hills but I understand that there are two students who have received training in this hospital. This hospital cannot attract so many students to go for training because of the fact that the stipend they get is very meagre. For example, in Khasi Hills Presbyterian Hospital here in Shillong the only allowance they get is very small, only Rs.18 or 20 per month. So, Mr. Chairman, Sir, there is no attraction for our students to go and receive training to this hospital. So I would suggest that Government should kindly consider this point. Whether it is possible or not to extend the training facilities and also to bear the stipend with regard to these institutions.

        Another point Mr. Chairman, Sir, is with regard to the quarter o the nurses. I have never stayed in the hospital because I have never been hospitalised. I have met quite a good number of them as a public representative but not as a patient. Other hon. Members also I believe, are in the know of things because they also met them. So, Mr. Chairman, Sir, we have to look to the welfare and problems of the nurses. In this context, I would like to make it very clear that even though I have never stayed in the hospital but I have met the nurses just to know under what conditions they are working and what are the grievances etc. etc.

Shri. P.R. Kyndiah :- The time is up, Mr. Chairman, Sir.

Shri. S.D.Khongwir :- How many minutes more, Mr. Chairman, Sir ?

Mr. Chairman :- I will give you one minute more.

Shri. S.D. Khongwir :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would still speak on the quarters of the nurses. I am still there.

Shri. Grohonsing A. Marak (Minister, Forests) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, whether the hon. Member has visited any of the quarter of the nurses ?

Shri. S.D. Khongwir :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I consider that not as a taboo. I have got some of my relatives and I can go to their quarters. It is not a taboo for me nor for the Hon'ble Minister, who is my brother-in-law. (Bell rang).


ADJOURNMENT

Mr. Chairman :- Mr. Khongwir, you will continue on Friday. So the House stands adjourned till 9.30 a.m. on Friday, the 10th June, 1977.

D.S. KHONGDUP

Dated Shillong

Secretary,

The 8th June, 1977

Meghalaya Legislative Assembly

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