Proceedings of the Budget Session of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly assembled at 9:30 a.m. on Monday the 13th June, 1977, in the Assembly Chamber, Shillong with the Speaker in the Chair.

_______    

Present :- Minister 6, Minister of State 5, Members 40.

Mr. Speaker :- Let us take up Unstarred question No.105.    

UNSTARRED QUESTIONS

(Replies to which were laid on the Table)

Telephone charges of Directorate of Statistics

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh asked :

105. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state the telephone charges of the Directorate of Statistics for the quarters ending 31st December 1976, 31st March 1977 and 30th June 1977.    

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister ) replied :- 

105. - The telephone charges are as follows -
Quarter ending 31st December 1976 ... ... Rs.449.10
Quarter ending 31st March 1977 .. ... Rs.502.70
Quarter ending 30th June 1977 ... ... No bill received so far
Total ... Rs.951.80

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Whether the charges include rental and call charges ?    

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- These are call charges.

Shri Jormanik Syiem :- Whether these include the private calls also ?        

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- When the officer used the telephone call in his official capacity it is supposed to be an official call.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh :- How many telephone connections are there in the Directorate of Statistics ?    

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- I want notice.

Telephone posts in the Directorate of Statistics.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh asked :-    

106. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -    

(a) The total number of technical posts in the Directorate of Statistics (category-wise) ?

(b) The total  number of technical posts (category -wise) which are still lying vacant ?    

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :-    

106. (a) -

Name of posts (Category-wise)

No of post
Economic and Statistical Adviser and Director of Economics, Statistics and Evaluation. ... ... ... 1
Joint Director of Economic, Statistics and Evaluation. ... ... ... 1
Deputy Director of Economics, Statistics and Evaluation ... ... ... 1
Senior Research Officer ... ... ... 1
Research Officers ... ... ... 9
Statistical Officers ... ... ... 4
Inspector of Statistics ... ... ... 28
Sub-Inspector of Statistics ... ... ... 32
Primary Investigator ... ... ... 35
Field Assistant ... ... ... 23
Artist-cum-Draftsman ... ... ...            1    
Total 

136

EVALUATION UNIT

Research Officer ... ... ... ...

3

Research Assistant ... ... ... ...             3  

Total ...

6

 (b)

Name of post (category-wise)

No. of post
Deputy Director of Economics, Statistic and Evaluation. 1
Research Officer ... ... ... 7
Statistical Officer  ... ... ... 1
Inspector of Statistics ... ... ... 1
Sub-Inspector of Statistics ... ... ... 10
Primary Investigator ... ... ... 13
Field Assistant ... ... ...         15  

Total ...

52

EVALUATION UNIT

Research Officer ... ... ... ...

1

Research Assistant ... ... ... ...

  2  

Total ...

3

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- 106 (b). Whether the Government is aware that one Shri Prabhat Singh Bishi, a person from Nainital has been appointed as Investigation Officer of the Directorate of Statistics?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- I could not follow the question.    

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Whether it is fact that one Shri Prabhat Singh Bishi from Nainital was appointed as Investigation Officer who is not a member of the staff of the Directorate ?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- I have got a list of primary computors.

Mr. Speaker :- There is no such name in the list of Investigation officers which means it is not a fact.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Do I take it that it is not a fact ? I want to be sure about it.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :-  I do not have the name in the category of Investigation officers. There is a Director, Joint Director, Senior Research Officers, Research Officers, Statistical Officers and so on. I do not have the name of that particular officer.

Mr. Speaker :- He does not want those names.    

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :-  Do I take that it is not a fact ?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- What is the name ?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Prabhat Singh Bishi hailing from Nainital.

Mr. Speaker :- He wants only one particular name.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Do I take it that it is a fact ? I am asking the Chief Minister through you, Sir.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- I have replied from the list of names and that particular name is not found here.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- 106 (b) What are the reasons that all these posts could not be filled up ?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- For want of suitable candidates.

Post of Director Statistics

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh asked :-    

107. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

(a) Whether is a fact that the post of Director of Statistics was once advertised ?

(b) If so, what was the out-come ?

(c) Whether the post of Economic and Statistical Adviser is separate from the post of Director of Statistics ?

(d) If the answer to (c) above be in negative, what is the need to have a Statistical Adviser ?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied: 

107. (a) - Yes.

        (b) - The Meghalaya Public Service Commission did not recommend either of the two candidates interviewed and consequently no appointment was made.

        (c) - No.    

        (d) - There is no separate post of Economic and Statistical Adviser as such. the present incumbent has been designated as Economic and Statistical Adviser and Director of Economics, and Statistics and Evaluation in view of his qualification and experience.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- 107 (d). Whether the incumbent is a qualified statistician ?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- The gentleman belongs to the Indian Economic Service and when interviewed by the Chief Secretary and Development Commissioner he was found suitable for the post. Earlier to that the post was advertised by the Public Service Commission and  nobody was recommend for appointment.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah  :- My point is whether the present incumbent is qualified in statistics ?

Mr. Speaker :- Your answer here is appointment was based on his qualifications and experience.    

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- He belongs to the Indian Economic Service and he has been working in the Ministry of Agriculture.

Mr. Speaker :- Whether he is a qualified statistics ?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Both the post are combined. he was interviewed by the Chief Secretary and Development Commissioner and after going through the biodata he has been found qualified for the post.

Shri M.N. Majaw :- 107 (c). Whether this Director of Statistics has also been appointed as ex-officio Secretary Planning?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- No, Sir.

Shri Jormanik Syiem :- What are the requisite qualifications for the Adviser and Director of Statistics ?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Well Mr. Speaker, Sir ever since the Meghalaya came into being we have not found any-body to fill up this post and after number of correspondences with the Government of India we have got this gentlemen who belongs to the Indian Economic Service and had been working in the Ministry of Agriculture.

Mr. Speaker :- What are the pre-requisites of a person to be appointed for the post ?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- He belongs to the Indian Economic Service and one who belongs to that service should be an economist. This gentlemen belongs to that particular service ad he has been serving in the Government of India.

Mr. Speaker :- You mean economics without Statistics? because statistics is one of the most important papers today even in M.A. Perhaps when the Department advertised for the post the qualifications were laid down.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- I will give the information tomorrow.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- 107 (b). Whether the M.P.S.C. has conducted the interview for the post ?

Mr. Speaker :- That has already been replied.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- 107 (b), in answer to (b) it is stated that the M.P.S.C. did not recommend either of the two candidates interviewed. When was the interview conducted ?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- On 28th October, 1974. Shri R.P. Kharmujai, Deputy Director of Statistics and Shri D.N. Sharma, Officer on Special Duty, Finance Department. These are the two candidates.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- When was the present interview taken ?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- As I have said that right from the inception of Meghalaya we have tried to get a qualified man to fill up this posts. On a number of occasions along with the ex-Finance Minister we have been trying to get a suitable person for this post and we have requested different Miniseries of the Government of India.

Mr. Speaker :- When the Public Service Commission did not recommend any of the two candidates, no further advertisement was made.

Prof M.N. Majaw :- 107(c), whether the Government is aware of  the fact that the Directorate of Statistics in his letter to the Deputy Commissioner designates himself as ex-officio Secretary, Planning.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- I require notice for that question.

Assault an Robbery perpetrated upon the Lalung people of Meghalaya

Prof. M.N. Majaw asked :-

108. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether the Government has lately received any reports of assault and robbery perpetrated upon the Lalung people of Meghalaya at rte Tapatoli an Jagi Road Bazar ?

        (b) If so, what steps has Government taken to protect the people of that areas from such assaults ?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :-    

108. (a) - Yes.

        (b) - Proceedings under Section 110, Cr.P.C. has been initiated by the Superintendent of Police, Kamrup (Assam) against three main miscreants who happened to be from Assam and the Secretary Village Defence Party of the Tapatoli Bazar was replaced by the Superintendent of Police, Kamrup.

Shri H. Hadem :- Whether the Secretary of the Village Defence Party of the Tapatoli Bazar was also placed under the same proceedings ?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- I could not follow his question.

Shri H. Hadem :- Whether this Secretary of Village Defence Party of the Tapatoli Bazar was also placed under the same proceedings i.e., under Section 110, Cr.P.C. ?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- For taking action against criminal elements under Section 110, proceedings has been initiated by Superintendent of Police, Kamrup against three main miscreants who happened to be from Assam and the secretary of the Village Defence Party of the Topatoli Bazar was replaced by another one.

Mr. Speaker :- His question is whether the Secretary of the Village Defence Party of the Tapatoli Bazar was placed under Section 110 of Cr.P.C.

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker. Sir, this is in Assam and we obtained the report that this Secretary has been replaced.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- This is no reply to (b). Question 108 (b) states: If so, what steps has Government taken to protect the people of that area from such assaults ? We find that the reply given is what the Assam Government has done. I want to know  what the Meghalaya Government has done to protect the Lalung people of the area ?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, since these people come from Assam, the matter had to be taken up with the Assam Police.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- May I point out that the people of this side who go to market at Tapatoli bazar have been intimidated and attacked. My question was what steps has the Government of Meghalaya taken to protect the people of the Lalung area ?

Mr. Speaker :- I think that is argumentative because in any case the people of Meghalaya can be protected when they are right inside the territory of Meghalaya but when they are outside Meghalaya it should be the duty of another Government to protect them. I think that should have been the answer.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- When were the assault and robbery taken place ?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- A petition dated 8th November1976 from the people of Saw Raid Lalung, Nongkhap and Nongtariang addressed to the Chief Secretary to the Government of Meghalaya was received in December, 1976 complaining of looting and dacoity by gang of dacoits near the Tapatoli bazar junction of the Umsning-Jagi Road and Upper Assam Grand Trunk Road.

        The matter was referred to the Special Superintendent of Police criminal investigation Department for enquiry. The Superintendent of Police East Khasi Hills personally visited Tapatoli bazar as well as Umsiang with the Additional Superintendent of Police, Kamrup District and conducted local enquiry. It was found that some criminals of Tapatoli bazar had harassed the Lalung villagers of Meghalaya side when they go to that bazar and that such criminals were being shielded by the Secretary, Village Defence Party of Tapatoli  bazar. It was also found that the villagers from Meghalaya had not reported the matter to the local Police Outpost at Khetri in Kamrup District of Assam. The Superintendent of Police, East Khasi Hills has directed the Circle Inspector (Rural) to attempt arrest of the accused person, and also taken up with the Superintendent of Police, Kamrup for taking action against criminal elements. The Superintendent of Police Kamrup had informed that proceedings under Section 110 Cr.P.C, against the three main miscreants have been initiated and that the Secretary, Village Defence Party who used to help and shield the miscreants was replaced by another one. The people of the area have also been requested to report any incidents to Khetri or Jagiroad Police Outposts at Kamrup if there is any incident in future. There is no report of such incident or trouble since the visit of the Superintendent of Police, East Khasi hills. 

Meghalaya House at Calcutta

Shri Samarendra Sangma asked :-

109. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -    

(a) the date on which the Meghalaya House at Calcutta was purchased by Government ?

(b) What was the total amount involve ?

(c) Who was the owner of the said property before it was purchased ?

(d) What is the plinth area of the structures comprising the Meghalaya House and the are of the compound surrounding it?

(e) For what purpose was the Meghalaya House at Calcutta established ?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :-

109. (a) - 25th August 1975.

        (b) - Rupees 50,92,000.

        (c) - Turf Properties Private Limited, Calcutta,

        (d) -

Building

Plinth Area

Compound

No.9 ... ...  372.566 Sq. m. 76 Cottahs more or less or 5083.651 Sq. m.
Portico ... ...    70.328 Sq. m.
No.10 ... ...  380.333 Sq. m.
Portico ... ...    40.716 Sq. m.
Out-House ... ...    407.112 Sq. m.
Garage and Chowkidar Shed ... ...    164.279 Sq. m.
1,435.324 Sq. m.

        (e) - Primarily for the use of ministers/Officers of the Government of Meghalaya during their official tours to Calcutta

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- 109 (b), Whether it is a fact that some more additional amount was pent for the repair of the Meghalaya House?

Mr. Speaker :- That is a new question. 

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- I have raised it because the plinth area will be involved.

Mr. Speaker :- Is the plinth area involved in the repair?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- I want to know this plinth area of the Meghalaya House and the additional expenses involved.

Mr. Speaker :- Whether the plinth area also is included in the repair?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister ) :- I want notice for that question?

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- Where is the exact location of this House?

Shri W. A. Sangma (Chief Minister ) :- 9/10 Russell Street, Calcutta.

The Institution of Art and Culture

Shri P.R. Kyndiah asked :

110. Will the Minister in charge of Education be pleased to state -

        (a) The aims, objects and functions of the Institute of Art and Culture?    

        (b) The names of the offices and personnel who serve under the Institute?

Shri P.G. Marbaniang (Minister in charge of Education) replied :

110. (a) - The institute is set up with a view to preserving and promoting the traditional art and culture of the State and also for imparting training of interested people in respect of western classical and Indian classical music and fine arts.

        (b) - Officers :

1. Mrs. E.N. Shullai, Director of the Institute.
2. Miss Daulat Nanavaty, professor of Western Classical Music.

        Ministerial :-

1. Shri Shngainphar, L.D.-cum-Typist.
2. Shri Bernard Diengdoh, Peon.
3. Shri N. Tamang, Chowkidar.

        Instructors :-

1. Smti. Illeen Pariat, Piano Instructor (Sr.)
2. Smti. Elizabeth Laitphlang, Piano Instructor (Jr.)
3. Smti. V. Reade, Piano Instructor (Jr.)
4. Shri E.B.R. Wanswett, Khasi Folk Song Instructor (Sr.)
5. Shri L.J. Masson, Piano Technician.

        Casual Employee :- 

1. Shri D. Joshi
2. Shri P. Nongspung,
3. Shri Babu Ram,
4. Shri Kala Singh.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, according to the reply at (a), the object is to preserve and promote the traditional art and culture. My question is if we see (b), we will see that is is not meant for preserving and promoting the traditional art and culture.

Shri H. Hadem :- May I raise a point of order. That is argumentative. 110 (a). Where is the location of the training centre?

Shri P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education) :- That question was already answered.

Shri Plansing Marak :- May we know who initiated this department?

Shri P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education) :- The Education Department.

Mr. Speaker :- This is the State Institute, I think. But Mr. Plansing Marak wants to ask whether Government would like to establish such institute in the District headquarters.

Shri P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education) :- Later on.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- (b). Whether Government is considering to appoint Folk Dance Instructor?

Shri P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education) :- Yes, Sir.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- How many posts of Piano Instructors are there?

Shri P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education) :- Four.

Shri H. Hadem :- May we know the number of trainees at present?

Shri P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education) :- We have 25 pupils in piano and 4 in Khasi folk songs.

Nature and Quantum of Gift Items

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh asked :

111. Will the Minister in charge of Health be pleased to state -

        (a) The nature and quantum of gift items received in Meghalaya during 1975-76 and 1976-77?

        (b) The purposes for which and the area where these gift items have been utilised?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in charge of Health)  replied :

111. (a) and (b) - Statements showing the nature and quantum of gift items received during 1975-76 and 1976-77 are placed on the Table of the House.

Shri H. Hadem :- May we know the answer to question (b) ?

Mr. Speaker :- It is a printing mistake. It should be (a) and (b)

Creation of posts for East Garo Hills by the Education Department

Shri C.A. Sangma asked :

112. Will the Minister in charge of Education be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether the Government propose to create the following posts separately for East Garo Hills :-

(i)   Inspector of Schools;
(ii)  Assistant Inspector of Schools;
(iii) District Social Welfare Officer;
(iv) District Social Education Officer;

        (b) If so, when?    

        (c) If not, the reason thereof?

Shri P.G. Marbaniang (Minister in charge of Education) replied :

112. (a) - (i) to (iv). The matter is under consideration of the Government.

        (b) - Does not arise.

        (c) - Creation of these posts is being considered keeping in view the tight financial position of the State and the administrative infrastructure available in the District to support creation of these posts.

Shri H. Hadem :- May we know the meaning of Themateris?

Shri P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Education) :- The matter is.

Tourists' Mini-Bus in the Shillong-Gauhati Airport Route

Shri W. Syiemiong asked :

113. Will the Minister in charge of Tourism be pleased to state -

        (a) The date when the Tourists, Mini Bus was placed in the Shillong-Gauhati Airport Route to help tourists?        

        (b) Whether it is a new or old vehicles?    

        (c) What is the bus fare?

        (d) Whether tickets are issued?

        (e) Whether any profit has been made out of this service?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister-in-charge of Tourism) replied :

113. (a) - 25th December, 1976.    

        (b) - Old vehicle.

        (c) - The bus fare is Rs.22.50 (rupees twenty two and paise fifty) only per head one way.

        (d) - Yes.

        (e) - Till date the bus has been running on no loss no gain basis.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- (b). Whether Government is aware that there was a break-down of the vehicle more than once?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- Yes, Sir.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- (d) Who issued the tickets?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- The tickets are issued through the booking clerks working on shift system in the Tourist Information Centre at Police Bazar.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- Is the Government aware that no tickets are issued to the passengers from Borjhar Airport to Shillong?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- I am not aware of that.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- (b). Whether Government is considering to have a new vehicle for the purpose?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have already placed orders for new vehicles.

Prof. A. Warjri :- What is the type and model and this old vehicle?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- I require notice for that.

Shri H. Hadem :- (e). Does this include the pay of both driver and conductor since the bus has been running on loss on gain basis?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- It is all inclusive.

Financial involvement of the State Government on Industrial Undertakings

Prof. M.N. Majaw  asked :

114. Will the Minister in charge of Industries be pleased to state -

        (a) The financial involvement of the State Government in following firms or concerns -

(i)   M/s Meghalaya Plywood Ltd.
(ii)  M/s Associated Beverages, Ltd and
(iii) M/s Jute and Spinning Industries Ltd.

        (b) What are the terms and conditions governing such involvement?

        (c) Has the Government of Meghalaya invested any money in companies or industries wholly owned and controlled by the local tribal people?

        (d) If so, the name of such industries, and the quantum of financial involvement in each?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister in charge of Industries) replied :

        114. (a) - The State Government has no direct financial involvement in any of these three firms. However the Meghalaya Industrial Development Corporation has invested in these firms as follows :-

(i) M/s Meghalaya Plywood Ltd.
9.5 per cent Redeemable cumulative Rs.97,00
Preference share (971) of Rs.100 each.
(ii) M/s Associated Beverages Private Ltd.
9.5 per cent redeemable cumulative preference shares (1,500) of 100 each. Rs.1,50,000
Equity Shares (5,000) of Rs.10 each. Rs.    50,000

 Total 

Rs.2,00,000
(iii) M/s Jute and Spinning Industries Ltd. Nil.

        (b) - The MIDC is only a shareholder in the above two companies but nominated directors to the Board of these companies as follows -

1. M/s Plywood Ltd. - One Director.
2. M/s Associated Beverages Ltd. - Two Directors.

        (c) - No.

        (d) - Does not arise.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- (e) Whether Government is considering to invest money in companies or industries wholly owned and controlled by the local tribal people?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Industries) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the United Fruit Company submitted a letter on 25th November 1976 regarding the fruit processing unit at Byrnihat. They want to shift this centre to the Industrial Estate at Shillong. The matter is under negotiation whether we will invest some money with the United Fruit Company or not.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- (c) Whether Government is considering in principle to invest in companies owned by the tribal people?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Industries) :- Yes, we would like to invest in companies owned by tribal people in principle. But at present there is only the United Fruit Company and there is no other tribal company which has applied for investment by the M.I.D.C.

Prof. A. Warjri :- (c) Has there been proposal for a flour mill from the tribals?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Industries) :- There has been a proposal for a flour mill. But then later on the person who wants to set up the flour mill does not want to form a company or project, but he wants to have a partnership concern. Therefore, it is not possible for the M.I.D.C. to enter into a joint venture with that man.

Prof. A. Warjri :- How many proposals were there?

Mr. Speaker :- How many proposals by tribal companies or individuals were sent to the M.I.D.C. for flour mill?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Industries) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, subject to correction, one has applied.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- May we know the name of that applicant?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Industries) :- I do not have the name with me. I require notice for that.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know the name of the Directors - (1) for the Meghalaya Plywood Ltd. and (2) for Associated Beverages Ltd.

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Industries) :- I require notice for that.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- (b) Mr. Speaker, Sir, M/s Meghalaya Plywood Ltd. has only one Director. Whether Government is considering to have another Directors in the Meghalaya Plywood Ltd.

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Industries) :- Not, at present.

Weaving Superintendent for East Garo Hills.

Shri Choronsing Sangma  asked :

115. Will the Minister in charge of Sericulture and Weaving be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether the Government has appointed and posted Weaving Superintendent for Garo Hills District?    

        (b) If not, the reasons thereof?

        (c) Whether the Government propose to open a tailoring, knitting and embroidery training-cum-production centre at Williamnagar?

        (d) If not the reasons thereof?

        (e) Whether it is a fact that Weaving Inspector posted at Williamnagar is still functioning from Tura?

Shri S.C. Marak (Minister of State for Sericulture and Weaving) replied :

115. (a) - No.    

        (b) - The present Superintendent in West Garo Hills district can look after the work in both districts.    

        (c) - The matter will be considered in due course.

        (d) - Does not arise.

        (e) - No.

Regulation of Casual Employees in the Mawmluh-Cherra Cements Factory

Shri S.P. Swer asked :

116. Will the Minister in charge of Industries be pleased to state -

(a) The number of causal labourers on the roll of the Mawmluh-Cherra Cements Limited at Factory site as on 30th April, 1977?
(b) How many of them have been employed for more than six months?
(c) Whether these causal labourers will be regularized as permanent employees of the Company?
(d) If so, the possible date for their regularisation and absorption as permanent employees of the Company?
(e) If not, the reasons thereof?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister of Industries) replied :

116.(a)

- Sixty

(b)

- Fifty-five.

(c)

This will depend on permanent vacancies that may arise from time to time as also on the suitability and efficiency of each employee.
(d) & (e) - Do not arise in view of (c) above.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, 116 (b), whether it is a rule that the casual employees who have worked for more than six months will be absorbed permanently?

Mr. Speaker :- What is the answer to that question, Whether there is a rule that when they have worked for more than six months they will be absorbed permanently?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister of Industries) :- No, not at present.

Shri S.P. Swer :- May I know with regard to question 116(a) and (b) when were these 5 causal labourers recruited?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister of Industries) :- The number of these casual employees is as on 30th April, 1977.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know how the suitability and efficiency of each employee is determined?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister of Industries) :- That is according to their performances, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Government Grants to Social and Cultural Organisation.

Shri S.P. Swer asked :

117. Will the Minister in charge of Social Welfare, etc. be pleased to state -

(a) The names of Social and Cultural Organisations which received Government grants during the financial year 1976-77 and their respective amount?
(b) The number of registered organisation on the list at (a) above?
(c) The number of unregistered organisations on the list at (a) above?
(d) How many of these social and cultural organisations submitted audited statements of accounts for the previous year's grants along with their applications for grants during the year 1976-77?
(e) Whether the sanctioned amounts for grants to these organisations have been disbursed to them?
(f) Whether sufficient steps have been taken by the Government to ensure proper utilisation of the grants by the social and cultural organisations in the State?

Shri P.G. Marbaniang (Minister in-charge of Social Welfare etc.) replied :

117.(a) - The list is placed on the Table of the House.
(b) - 165 Nos.
(c) - 68 Nos.
(d) - 127 Nos.
(e) - The amount sanctioned has been allotted to the Inspectorate/District Social Welfare Officers for appropriate action with the Club/Organisations concerned.
(f) - Necessary directive has been issued to the Inspectors of Schools and Assistant Inspectors of Schools/District Social Welfare Officers concerned to endure that the grants sanctioned to each Clubs/Organisations is disbursed to the authorised person of the Clubs/Organisations and that the grant is utilised for the purpose for which it is sanctioned.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, here the answer to 117 (b) is 165. I think the answer is wrong.

Mr. Speaker :- No, that is not your responsibility. Whether the answer is right or wrong, it is the responsibility of the Government.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, my question is how many registered organisations have received grants during the financial year 1976-77.

Mr. Speaker :- The list is placed on the Table of the House.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Sir, according to the list on the Table it is only 117. My question is like this. The names of Social and Cultural Organisations which received Government grants during the financial year 1976-77 and their respective amount? The reply was 117 have received. So I think there is a discrepancy.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister, P.W.D.) :- 117 is the number of the question.

Mr. Speaker :- Yes, that is the series number of the question (laughter).

Water Supply to military colony

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh asked :

118. Will the Minister in charge of Power be pleased to state

(a) How many gallons of water the MSEB authorised supply daily to the military colony at Rongmen-Nongsder, Barapani from the Umiam lake as per agreement?
(b) What is the rate per gallon of water the MSEB authorised charge to the military authority?
(c) Whether it is a fact that during the dry season for the four generators in the Sumer Power House cannot be run due to low water level in the Umiam lake?
(d) If the answer to (c) above be in the affirmative, whether the daily supply of water from the Umiam lake to the military authorities affects the power generation during winter months?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) replied :

118.(a) - At present, no water is being supplied by MSEB to the military colony at Barapani from the Umiam lake.
(b) - Does not arise in view of (a) above.
(c) - No.
(d) - Does not arise.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, 118(a0 Whether any agreement has been made between the Meghalaya State Electricity Board and the military authorised for the supply of water from Umiam lake to the military colony at Rangmen?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) :- Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Increase of electricity charges in Shillong

Shri S.P. Swer asked :

119. Will the Minister in charge of Power be pleased to state -

(a) Whether the Government is aware of the fact that the Shillong Hydro Electric Co. Ltd. had notified to the consumers about the increase in the rates of Electricity from February, 1977?
(b)

Whether the Government is also aware of the fact that the supply of electricity in Shillong area had further deteriorated during the last two months or so, by way of low voltage and frequent breakdowns of both short and long durations much to the inconvenience of the consumers?

(c) If so what immediate steps the Government propose to take in this matter?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) replied :

119.(a) - Yes.
(b) - Yes.
(c) - Appropriate action will be considered.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- 119 (c) Mr. Speaker, Sir, what is the nature of appropriate action?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is under consideration of the Government and appropriate action is being taken at appropriate time.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- What appropriate action?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) :- To see that the Hydro Electric Co. Ltd is improving its capacity to supply power to the consumers and the Government simultaneously is taking care to see that action will be taken if  all the supply of power is not satisfactory to the consumers.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- The Minister has admitted that the supply of power is not satisfactory by answering 'yes'

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) :- Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir, during the last two months there was breakdown and we naturally faced some inconveniences. The Government is getting the matter rectified and the Government is also aware of the fact and action will be taken it at all necessary and appropriate decision will  be made.

Mr. Speaker :- The word appropriate is always very vague. I think even the hon. Member who asks this question himself wants to know more precisely about the nature of the steps taken.

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have already explained that the Company -the Shillong Hydro Electric Company is trying to improve its services to the consumers and the Government is also taking appropriate action and wherever necessity arises decision will be made. At the moment we cannot say what action will be taken, but at least the Government is quite aware that some appropriate action will be taken at the appropriate time. I think I have given a correct answer.

Mr. Speaker :- It is difficult for the Government to know about the nature of action to be taken.

Prof. Alexander Warjri :- Whether nationalization will be one of the appropriate actions?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) :- It is too early to say now.

Mr. Speaker :- Definitely that will be done of the steps that Government will consider. No.120

Delay in the implementation of Plans and Programmes

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh asked :

120. Will the Chief Minister be pleased state -

(a) Whether Government is aware that delay in the implementation of plans and programmes and execution of Government order at District and Sub divisional levels is often due to the delay in receipt of the relevant Government orders/constructions/notifications by such executing authorities in time?
(b)

If so, whether Government propose to streamline the Government machinery to avoid such delays?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

120. (a) - No specific complaints have been received but Government are aware that there is room for improvement in this regard.

        (b) - Government are anxious to avoid delays and have taken a number of measures for the purpose.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, 120 (b), may we know at least one or two of those measures taken by the Government?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Well, we have appointed two Task forces to go into these questions of delegation of financial power. Task Force 'A' consists of the Additional Chief Secretary and Development Commissioner as Chairman with the Secretary, Finance, Director of Agriculture, Chief Engineer, Public Works Department and Conservator of Forests as Members. This Task Force covers the Departments of (i) Agriculture, Veterinary, Fisheries, Soil Conservation, (ii) Public Works Department, Town and Country Planning, Public Health Engineering, Health, (iii) Forests (iv) Industries and (v) Cooperation.

        Task Force 'B' consists of the Special to the Government and Commissioner of Division as Chairman with the Secretary, Finance Inspector General of Police, Director of Supply and Director of Public Instruction as members.

        This Task Force covers Police, Supply, Education, Social Welfare and Transport. Some recommendations have already been received. These are under examination of Finance and the Departments concerned.

Prof. A. Warjri :- (b), Whether the Act passed by this House on the Task Force has been notified?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- It is the Civil Task force Act.

Mr. Speaker :- Let us pass on to the next item and before that, the Chief Minister will make a correction on the wrong information that the House got on the last occasion.

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, you will recall that on the last occasion I made a correction to my earlier reply regarding the name of the police station of Nongpoh to that of Shillong police station. But on further verification I found that the name of Nongpoh police Station is correct. So the name of the police station is Nongpoh police station.


Voting on Demands for Grants

Mr. Speaker :- Let us pass on the the next item and Minister in charge of Health to give his reply to the cut Motions No.1 and No.2 under Grant No.36.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister Health) :- I was just mentioning to the House last time during the reply to the cut Motions on Grant No.36 that family Planning is not a single factor for diminishing  population. I had to exercise my mind on this. We all know that in Meghalaya we are only 1 million and 80 per cent of the population are schedules tribes. Now, in my opinion, we have got to maintain certain identifies. When we talk about it we have to look at it from different angles, like political identity and cultural identity and many others. In fact, we have already discussed about the ways and means to protect the interest of the tribals. As I have said earlier I was trying to exercise my mind as to how e we in this part of the country should maintain our identity or increase population of tribals in Meghalaya. I was just trying to compare the tribes living in other parts of the country like the Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu, etc. In my opinion, I am not sure whether I am criticising ourselves or not. But I think if these tribes - Khasi, Garo, Jaintias living in Meghalaya, if they are diminishing it may be due to some other factors also. It may be that Family Planning is one of the factors but not the only single factor. I think much depends on the way we live, the way we try to change our society, customs, culture in Meghalaya. We all agree that we are found of something which in alien to us. We love some other culture, some other society and some other way of life. For example, we all love English names, we like to listen to English music and dance, the western dances, etc. I have attended a number of cultural shows in the State Capital Library. How many boys and girls sang either in Khasi or in Garo 80 per cent of the songs and 100 per cent of the instruments used are western. So I was just trying to study the tribals in Andhra Pradesh. They are still with their long hair-brief loin cloth with tiger skin and spears and in that way they can still be easily identified as tribals. In a million a tribal can still be identified from his behaviours culture and dress. If we go to Delhi from this part of the country we are branded as Malaysian, Koreans and Japanese and we are asked for the foreign exchange because we have got nothing to show in our body that we belong to Meghalaya. When we go to Delhi what do we wear? We wear beautiful trousers and ties and speak good English perhaps. So all these things might be responsible if at all our tribes dwindle. Another thing Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think that we are a matriarchal society. The girls inherit the mother's name to trace the family. But you will find in modern times that there are so many young people who are tying to adopt the western culture or some other culture and sometimes they write their father's title. So there is no clear indication. I have seen a number our own people trying now to follow the father's title instead of the mother's title.

Mr. Speaker :- And in some other cases they take both also.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Well, we are trying to be very much advanced, but we forget the culture, heritage of the past. A thorough study will show that we do not only follow the father's title or mothers title but we have followed some names from the western countries as well. May be these are the factors which might be responsible for the dwindling of the tribals if at all it takes place in Meghalaya I myself have the occasion to be confronted in certain interior, in certain parts of the Hindi speaking country. They know my name is Sandford Marak, it is an English name. I was confronted; they asked me are you one of the descendants of St. Mark, the disciple of Jesus, because your name is English. So there was a confusion here and they asked what would your name be in Hindi. So these things. Mr. Speaker, Sir, may affect our society. But I am sure posterity and the leaders who would come after us will study about it.

        Now I would like to touch the point raised by the hon. Member from Nongthymmai about the medical termination of pregnancy. Now this particular item does not fall within Family Planning. The medical termination of pregnancy does not come under the purview of this Cut Motion. The hon. Member who is also an elder statesman of the State expressed that we attach in our country to the value of morality. I also agree with him. That is this country we have high moral value and we just think that it is immoral against religion to go along with abortion. We also believe that it is a sin. Unfortunately that Act has been passed by the Parliament legalizing this particular thing. I do not know whether in our State we can have an occasion to review but again it is an all India Act and it applies to all the territories of India and as has already been pointed out by the hon. Member from Jaiaw, may be, with free hands we take the absorption Bill the the people and instead of creating that sense of discipline and responsibility it may create another problems. Another thing is with regard to the life of  the mother. Suppose a mother has got ten children already and if her health is running out of normal state then next time she may die along with the baby. So we may pursue to protect all these things. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. member from Jaiaw pointed out some reports in the press about very high  death rate and low birth rate and he wanted more children and he said that if the position will continue like this our future is very dim. What I would like to stress here is that we should not produce children only but we should produce men and women who will be useful to the society. According to one magazine, every ten seconds one child is delivered in the whole world. Just imagine how many children are being born daily. So, I would like to reply in this regard that such a child is not acceptable to the society. I remember mention was made about a family with 18 children, one is blind, the other is lame and so on nobody is normal in that family. So, instead of becoming an asset to the society, these deformed children are becoming a liability. So, I do not totally agree with the hon. Member from Jaiaw that we should produce children. We have to produce children, good children who will become good M.L.As good officers who will transform Meghalaya into a prosperous State.

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- Policy of Hitler?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in charge of Health etc) :- We can produce thousands of children but they are not an asset to the society. I will come to that since you have mentioned it. We can produce more children, healthy children and we will definitely be able to build up the State.

Mr. Speaker :- But how can we determine that? Nobody is qualified to do this.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- There was an item in the magazine which says that it is difficult for the doctor to cure the mothers. It is difficult to do that. According to the latest magazine which I read yesterday, it is a question to lack of efforts.

Mr. Speaker :- But that will arouse suspicion.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in charge of Health etc) :- So in future, as I have said, I will just appeal to the hon. members to carry good news and urge the people to produce only good children so that they will become assets of the society. So personally, I do not attach much importance of such doomsday predictions. There are many chilling and terrifying projections made by demographers/scientists with which we are familiar. One projection was that by the end of the century the weight of human beings upon this earth is going to be more that the weight of the earth itself. According to the opinion of the demographers they have given different opinion about the rosy picture, about the fate of the scheduled tribes in India. We have heard so many things about this and I would only appeal to the hon. Members that we should not be so much scared. I am not going to suggest that he opinions of the demographers/scientist are inaccurate. However, there is an unfortunate tendency among us to dismiss the real point but we do become interested when these are projected by demographers or scientist and that also we do not like to analyse the real problem. Before I go to the real problems, I assure that most of the children born today will surely celebrate their birthdays after two decades and many of us will do the same thing. There may be an exception is one was born on 29th February. We shall also see many buildings/houses over many vacant lands of today inhabited by the people

(At this stage, the Speaker, left the Chamber and Shri H. Hadem, Chairman, took the Chair)

        Now, coming to the real problems "very highly death rate and low birth rate". As you know all births and deaths are not compulsorily registered in our State, I would not like to certify how high is birth rate and how low is death rate. In spite of an attempt to get all new born babies registered nothing much has been achieved. In this line also, our people living in the villages do not get their babies registered in time. As such,. we do not have the exact birth and exact death rates. Maternity and Child Health and Family Welfare Programme really aim at reducing death rate and are rather seriously concerned about infant mortality. The infant mortality in our State is estimated to be 140 per 1000 live birth as against all India average of 122 per 1000 live births. In Japan, infant mortality is only 11 per 1000 live births. Thus you will see that out of every 1000 live births, 40 children who are termed as "gift of God" are dying every year in Meghalaya. We all must be seriously concerned about it. You know how much pain a mother has to  suffer during each child birth. We are giving immunization against diseases to mothers and children, prophylaxis against nutritional anemia and blindness. These will protect them from diseases and make them healthy. Thus mortality rate can be checked substantially. Here I would like to say that early this year just before the Lok Sabha Election, some interested people spread rumors that injection and vitamin tables given to mother and children will sterilized them. There is no injection available for sterilisation, but rumours made people panic. There has been a lot of sensation amongst the people here in the town. Some mothers out of fear went to school and then take the children back home for fear that some tablets were demonstrated. Even those educated mothers, cultured mothers were very much scared for including the main family. My daughter was going to schools on that particular day. Because of this rumour, unfortunately, I was not here, I was in Garo Hills for election campaign and I was informed by the Secretary to the Party about this rumour here in Shillong. It was stated that some tales are being given to children in order to make them barren. So this is the rumour. I would appeal to all members of this House irrespective whether they are in this side or in the Opposition, to encourage people to accept the maternity and child health services, if we are really interested in checking mortality which will also mean increasing the population. As regards "grow more children and multiply", women of age between 15 to 45 years are capable of child bearing. That is for a period of 30  years (15 to 45) during their life time, but they cannot have 30 children or one child every year. The main age of marriage is estimated to be 22.7 for males and and 17.2 for females General fertility rate is 5.7 in rural areas and 4.2 in the urban areas in India, the condition is more of less similar in Meghalaya. The age of marriage and fertility depends on many socio-economic cultural factors. Hence, we cannot expect to grow more children in families like grow more food in field. I will give you the Scheduled tribe population in Meghalaya. In the year 1951, we are 5,23,474. Garo Hills 1,97,007 and 3,26,397 in Khasi and Jaintia Hills. In 1961, 6,39,161 covering Garo Hills 2,63,003 and 3,76,158 for Khasi Hills and Jaintia Hills. In 1971, the total was 8,14,230. Garo Hills was 3,25,372 and 4,88,358 Khasi and Jaintia Hills. This is the break-up. I think it will help us to see how we will be in 1981. We will feel the increase or decrease.

        Now I will come to the point raised by the hon. Member from Nongshken, Mr. D.D. Pugh. He objected against budgeting whether the Government of India's consent was taken for diversion of this amount from one head to another. Well Mr. Chairman, Sir, the Chief Minister has already made a statement on the floor of the House on this point also and to the point which was raised by Mr. D.D. Pugh, hon. Member from Nongshken. The answer to his point is that the Government of India has been moved to allow us to use this fund for Maternity and Child Health Programme. In case the Government of India's approved is not received, the amount may have to be surrendered. We also made adequate provision in last year's budget and also provided Permanent Advance. Hence all payment for last year should have been made from last year's budget. If any payment has not been made during last year, the amount lapsed. If necessary we shall obtain  Government of India's permission for payment during the current year, and we shall come before the House for regularisation by Supplementary Demand. Any expenditure before issue of the orders during the current year will also be taken up for regularisation through Supplementary Demands in due course. Token provision would be necessary for reimbursement from the Government of India is another point raised by him. This argument was given by the hon. Member from Nongshken under Family Welfare Programme. The Government of India releases provisional grants-in-aid to the State from where expenditure is initially met subject to subsequent adjustment on the basis of audited figure of expenditure. The Government of India have already released a sum of Rs.1 lakhs as grants-in-aid for this purpose for the 1st quarter of 1977-78. So there will be no difficulty for advance or final adjustment although no token provision is made. [At this stage Shri S.P. Swer took over as Chairman] Mr. Chairman, Sir, on this subject I will not prolong my speech because every year we have had lively discussions and suggestions and ultimately we have come to a decision now to stop this programme of family planning, particularly sterilisation. With this information given to the hon. Members who have brought the cut motion, I think I have cleared all the points. I am grateful to him and also to the other hon. Members who have taken pains to take part in the deliberations and discussion on this matter. So, with these explanations from my end, I would request the hon. member who brought this cut Motion to kindly withdraw it.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, in view of the replies and clarification from the Minister, I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Chairman :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw cut motion No.1 and No.2, clubbed together?

(Voices - Yes Yes)

        Now let me put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.34,78,700 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "231-Family Planning" be passed.

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Minster in charge, of Public Health to move Grant No.37.

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Public Health, etc) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.76,27,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will com in course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "282-Public Health, Sanitation and Water Supply - A-Public Health and Sanitation".

Mr. Chairman :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before  the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.76,27,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charged which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head 282-Public Health, Sanitation and Water Supply - A-Public Health and Sanitation" be passed.

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Now Grant No.38. Minister, Public Health to move.

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister, Public Health) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.83,49,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in he course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "282-Public Health, Sanitation, and Water Supply-B-Sewerage and Water Supply and 283-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings".

Mr. Chairman :- Motion moved. There are as many as 3 cut motions. Cut motion No.1 is to be moved by Mr. G. Mylliemngap. The hon. Member is absent and so the cut motion is deemed to have been withdrawn. Cut motion No.2 by Mr. Rowell Lyngdoh and Mr. W. Syiemiong. Any one to move.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision to Rs.83,49,000 under Grant No.38, Major head "282-Public Health, Sanitation, and Water Supply-B-Sewerage and Water Supply and 283-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings" at page 267 of the Budget be reduced to Re.1, i.e. the amount of the whole grant of Rs.83,49,000 do stand reduced to Re. 1.

Mr. Chairman :- Motion moved. You can initiate the discussion.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Sir, in moving this cut motion I have not many points to raise because we have had enough discussion on the subject in other discussion like the general discussion on the Budget. Even then since we have found that all along for the last 3 or 6 years the performance of the Public Health Department, especially in the matter of giving water to the people both in the rural area and the urban areas, has not been satisfactory. Moreover, as we have stated here in the cut motion, there is a lopsided or discriminatory consideration in the distribution or selection of water supply schemes in the rural areas, specially in areas where water is very much needed. These areas do not receive proper attention of the Department, instead the water supply schemes are concentrated in certain other arrears. There are areas like the Bhoi area which are really in need of water because of the bad condition of water there. They need good drinking water and for other domestic purposes but they received not much attention. I have had occasion to mention earlier especially with regard to the areas of the West Khasi Hills District where the attention of the Department is really nil. Of course, the Department had done some investigations and surveys but not a single water supply scheme has materialised till today. Therefore, by brining this cut motion I must remind the Government that they should also instruct the Department to pay a little more attention of these parts of the State. I will mention especially those areas under the Mawkyrwat Constituency, in Phlangdiloin and also those under the Pariong Constituency, which are really in need of water supply but no scheme has materialised so far. So I would just request the Government  that it should also pay attention to these parts of the State. With these few words, as I have already discussed these in other discussion, I move this cut motion.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, on this subject I would like to raise one matter of principle which I have considered for some time during the lat few years so far as water supply scheme in the hills areas are concerned. I found that the Department had one straight line, one track of mind approach regarding water supply schemes without considering the different conditions and circumstances in the hill areas. That is, they are following only the pipe water supply scheme without going for any other schemes most suitable according to the conditions in the area. In our hill areas we find there are some very difficult places where to bring water by gravity system is not easy especially where sources of water are at a very lot level whereas the villages are on the high level in the hills. Therefore, for want of electricity supply or even if it is available the cost is so much that it will be found more practicable and more economical to adopt other means. In our village and in other villages especially in Khasi Hills we have got streams and springs from the rocks and it is not absolutely necessary that we will be bring water right up to the compound or to the kitchen. It will be enough if the Department will spend or invest little money for improving the sources of these streams and springs and make those places clean. I have visited the southern villages in Khasi Hills and I have seen there are people in the villages who had been, for thousands of years or so, carrying water from those beautiful springs and water falls. Those sources of water are hardly at a distance of 2/3 furlongs only. What is needed is that there should be some improvement of these springs, viz. cement plastering, cement  walls and or some little pipes. And this could be best and most suitable water supply scheme in many villages in Khasi Hills. I called the PHE officers about a year ago and I discussed with them about these systems but surprisingly they said we have no such system, no such scheme. I suspected something very serious behind the minds of the Department, the officers of the PHE. Why they prefer only pipe system. This is very strange. Once I remember in Cherrapunjee that the first pipe line system was introduced in some of the villages, of the big villages. On the ground of morality and character, let us be straight. I was in Cherrapunjee during my boyhood when I was a student in the Ramakrishna Mission School and at that time we had our water source just below the hills about furlongs. Every morning and evening we used to go down with our bucket or pot to bring water. Apart from health reason, it was also a very pleasant past time for us. It was like a club, although we did not have any club, to gather there. We had our gossip and had all our jokes and at the same time we used to work also by washing clothes and bringing water home. It was a matter of one furlong or so and it did not take much time. The elders of Cherrapunjee village used to say that there was one reason which was good that when the students after 2 or 3 o'clock in the afternoon had nothing to do and therefore they were rather happy to wash their clothes and bring water from nearby springs and streams. Whatever it may be, economically I would like to suggest that instead of spending amount we may consider the practical approach. Instead of just one track of mind for pipe line water supply scheme which is very costly, we may consider other measures also. Instead of spending 5 lakhs we may have it by spending Rs.50,000 only. We do not have very big villages and within 2 or 3 furlongs we have got streams. For implementing those schemes we do not need big engineer. We may try our indigenous source of water like streams and springs more economically. But whenever we make those suggestion to the Government, the officers of the Department look blank and they say that there is no such scheme approved by the National Policy of all-India rural water supply schemes by ignoring the peculiarities and peculiar conditions as obtain in this region. Therefore, I would request the Minister to look into the matter and apply practical approach to the conditions obtaining in different areas in our State. Then one point which the Minister mentioned in his reply to the Budget Speech is very disturbing. He said that Planning Commission was not in favour of any new water supply schemes to be taken up. If it is strictly followed, then there will by discrimination. Some people will have to wait for water supply till they die. So, let us see that there is a fair distribution in the matter of completion of such scheme. Let us be perfect in one scheme first and then only we should proceed to another one. There should be at fair administration of this particular Department so that the people of our State will have equal share. Mr. Chairman, Sir, these are the two points which I would like to bring to the notice of our Government. Thank you Sir.

Shri Jackman Marak :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, in the Budget the amount shown against Health Department is Rs.83,49,000. Well Sir, I have been here in Shillong for the last five year or so and the Government have taken all necessary steps to provide water supply to all the areas of Shillong. But Sir, I am very sorry to mention he me that only yesterday I heard about the Nongkrem village where there is such water supply scheme there but the people are suffering due to scarcity of water. So, Sir, I request the Government to come forward for the speedy implementation of this water supply scheme. Sir, it is not only so in Shillong, but at Tura also the people are suffering very badly from scarcity of water. There, the people of my area, even asked me "why don't you speak to the Minister concerned about our difficulties for not getting sufficient water, because after all you are an M.L.A." 

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister Health) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, for the information of the hon. Member I would like to mention here that the Tura Water Supply Scheme is under the District Council. They have taken over this scheme from us.

Shri Jackman Marak :- Thank you for the information. Mr. Chairman, Sir, people are finding much difficulty there as this scheme has not been started as yet. And from the statement of the Minister concerned it seems that the State Government is sanctioning the money of such schemes through the District Council So, Sir, I would like to request the Government through you, that the matter should be taken into consideration as early as possible. Now, Mr. Chairman, Sir, regarding implementation of water supply schemes in the rural areas, this scheme was passed more than four years back, but nothing has been done so far by the Government Sir, even in my village at Silkigiri this scheme was to be started long before but it has been pending like that and the people are suffering very much due to non-availability of water there. Sir, I do agree that the Government is actually doing something to tackle the problem of water scarcity in our State but Sir, what our officers are doing for implementation of this scheme, we don't know anything. Moreover Sir, they say there is low gravity and there is high gravity. Sir, since we are not technical men, we do nor know anything  about it. Sir, since it may be difficulty to provide water to the educational institution, but to provide water to the villages there should be no difficulty. And Sir, at the last moment this water pipe has been taken to my house.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to know from the hon. Member that since there is no such provision under this scheme to provide water pipes to the House of any person, how could he get the water pipe connection for his house?

Shri Jackman Marak :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, we should place our grievance before the Government and we should also inform the Government about the difficulties of our people living in town areas and also in the rural areas about the scarcity of water there. Sir, what I mean to say is that we want speedy action to be taken by the Government, otherwise Sir, it will be too late to fulfill the desires of the people and also to complete the work. Sir, I have not seen any water supply scheme completed by our Government. So Sir, I would like to inform the Government, through you, that this is a very very important scheme not only in our State but also for the country as a whole. So, Sir, with these few points I resume my seat.

Shri P.G. Momin :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to associate myself with some of the observation in regard to the Cut Motion moved by the hon. Members concerning Grant No.38 Mr. Chairman, Sir, each and every Member of this House is quite aware that water constitutes one of the basic needs of human beings for the sustenance of life and to provide safe and adequate quantities of it both in rural and urban communities living in our country.

        I believe this is one of the primary responsibilities of the Government for the good and well being of the people in our State. Mr. Chairman, Sir, according to my knowledge, planning of water supply projects the formulation and implementation rest with the P.H.E Department of our State Government. It will be the duty of the Department to see about the technical know-how of the schemes in implementing and formulating them. Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to concentrate mainly on the rural water supply schemes. At the very outset of my observation, I would like to throw my knowledge before the House that in course of my close contact with the Department has been brought to my knowledge that since the inception of the State till now, 142 schemes under rural sector or rural water supply scheme have been sanctioned an out of which 74 schemes have been completed. I would like to say that I am very happy to announce this progress and the good activities being implemented by the Department concerned. Mr. Chairman, Sir, however, there is a talk about the drawbacks and also inadequacy of the schemes to cite the example of discrepancy of water supply schemes implemented in the rural  areas. In fact I am concerned and well convinced that one schemes which has already been implemented within my constituency is not at all up to the mark, In fact, Mr. Chairman, Sir, that scheme has not been provided, what is called, the treatment plants. So, unfortunately people will have to use muddy water from the scheme which I have already mentioned. But Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to bring to the notice of this House that the matter has been referred to the Department concerned and I have taken up with the Department in this regard. But ultimately when I came in close contact with the authorities concerned the reason that such schemes without treatment plants had to be implemented by the Department came to light. Well, Mr. Chairman, Sir, it has been explained by the Department which is well convincing that a decision was taken to dispense with such treatment plants like sedimentation tank, filter system etc. by the Cabinet on the 16th January, 1976. I not do know the criteria but I presume it may be due to paucity of fund or may be some other difficulties the Government at the highest level had foreseen. So, apart from my complaint, I believe, the Department has received such complaints from different quarters. I am of the opinion that the matter has been referred to the State Government and the Government is aware of the drawbacks of the schemes implemented earlier in such a manner. Therefore, Mr. Chairman Sir, I would like to announce and to bring before the House certain scheme which have been taken up within my constituency, two schemes which are being implemented now have been provided with treatment plants like sedimentation tank, filter etc. So I am sure, the Government is quite aware of the fact and will consider the grievances of the people realising that these schemes are mean for the welfare of the people as a whole. I appreciate the policy of the State Government for formulating and implementing such high quality of water supply schemes in our State whereas in other States of our Country under the rural supply schemes; they only provide tube wells and ring wells etc. We are very fortunate living in this State where the benign Government of our State has made it possible for us to get such a high quality of water supply schemes day by day and for all time to come. Some Members pointed out that the progress of water supply schemes is very slow. But I would like to enlighten that we should also realise that the Department in course of formulation and implementing the schemes will have to come across certain difficulties like lack of road communications, paucity of fund or non-availability of power to implement the pumping water supply schemes where the gravity source may not be available. In this regard in Garo Hills specially, there is a decrease in the yield of water sources by way of deforestation due to jhumming practices. Apart from that I am convinced, there is acute shortage of technical and experienced personnel in the Department. So these are the handicaps the Department is facing in course of implementing the Water Supply schemes. However, I am confident that in course of time all these difficulties can be overcome. Also we may have more technical personnel and more man-power to tackle with the more complicated problems of the Department. So, Mr. Chairman, Sir, with these few words while opposing the cut motion, I resume my seat.

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- I would also like to associate myself with this cut motion. In this connection I will not traverse the entire length and breath of the State of Meghalaya. But I would like to confine my discussion to a particular area so dear and so kind to me i.e., my own place, Mawlai.

        Mr. Chairman, Sir, I feel that I have had enough say in this matter of water supply to the Mawlai town. But I must also say, Sir, at this moment that on earlier occasion when I happened to speak about the Mawlai water supply scheme, I would try to harness all the fury under my command to speak against this Department in so far as water supply to Mawlai is concerned. Just to remind the Hon.ble Minister of certain communications that I have had with him and the Department, I wrote one letter to him on 29th April.1974. This is in connection with the representation submitted by the people of certain locality by the name of Umthlong. The people are not provided with any pipe water as is the case with other areas in Mawlai. These people used to get water from certain pond, but during the month of February or March, this pond was dried up and there was a sign of pollution and so immediately, Sir, I set an s.o.s. message to the Minister and the Minister also had written a slip to me that the matter would be looked into. But unfortunately, I have misplaced the slip. I know that the Minister or the Department had came to this particular locality to take the measurement and to prepare the estimates, I was told by the local people that some persons, may be from the Department of Public Health Engineering, had gone there to take the measurement. But Mr. Chairman, Sir, this s.o.s. message of mine cannot be considered to be s.o.s. because upto 1977, no action has been taken on this information that I had given to the Minister. Again  Mr. Chairman, Sir, on December 7th 1974, the people of Mawlai had submitted the shortest memorandum in the world. Believe it or not it is to my humble knowledge, the shortest memorandum in the world. We submitted this to the Chief Minister on 12th December 1974 simply telling him that the water supply at Mawlai is not adequate. Please see to it. Again Sir, as an out-come to this memorandum that we had submitted to the Chief Minister on 16th December, 1974 we had received one letter from the department addressed to the General Secretary of the Mawlai Town Durbar asked the Town Durbar to prepared the map and locations where additional taps would would be required. Then hurriedly, Sir, on the 2 th March, 1975 we sent the maps to the Department indicating therein the locations at several areas and localities where the Mawlai town as a whole require additional taps. But uptil now, Mr. Chairman, Sir, we have not been able to get any benefit out of these correspondence. As I have said, Sir, that on earlier occasions whenever I have to speak on the subject of water supply to the town of Mawlai, I would speak with all the fury, bitterness and ill-feelings that I can muster against this Department. Well, Mr. Chairman, Sir, I must say that just about a couple of days ago, a silver lining appeared. The Mawlai Town Durbar received one or two letters from the Department. I feel that now when I stand to speak on the cut motion, I should discharge from my breast all the malice and all the ill-feelings that I used to have while speaking on this particular Department. Mr. Chairman, Sir, on earlier occasions, this Department had always contended that the water supply of the people of Mawlai is always adequate. That was the contention from the side of the Department. But now, Sir, the Mawlai Town Durbar had received two letters from the Department and the latest is as early as 31st May, 1977 and after receiving this letter from the PHE Department, I feel that I should accept whatever the Department has written because we go by correspondence and assurances of the Government in this august House. So when we received this letter, I have decided to least, as a representative of that area, to really come to term  with the Department. I do trust and believe and also I have the faith in this Department in so far as Mawlai Water supply scheme is concerned that they will hold true and good to this letter that they have written to the Mawlai Town Durbar. I will read certain portions of this letter. It is addressed to the General Secretary, Mawlai Town Durbar - "You may be aware that the present distribution system is totally inadequate. "It is totally inadequate Mr. Chairman, Sir, They have accepted the correct position of the supply of water to the town of Mawlai, - "to cater to the increased demand because of the expansion of the area and consequent increased population. You are also aware that because of this constraints, this Department has not been able to accede to the request for private house connections. Hence the need for the new distribution system." Well Mr. Chairman, Sir, in so far as the distribution system is concerned, I have had the occasion to discuss not only with the Minister in charge but also with the Hon'ble Chief Minister with regard to the new distribution system of the Mawlai town and I was informed by the Department that an estimate of about 44 lakhs has been prepared by the Department and this estimate has gone tot he C.P.H.E. either for his approval or for other necessary actions. Well, Mr. Chairman, Sir, as I have already indicted on the earlier occasion when I got the chance to speak on this particular Department, and as also well-known to all the Member of this House especially from the Government side, that Mawlai town is one of the biggest towns in Meghalaya including Tura and Jowai. Now, the population is about 18,000 and I think it is more than the population of Jowai and a little bit less than the population of Tura. Mr. Chairman, Sir, the total amount that has already been spent for supply of water to Mawlai has not exceeded 22 or 23 lakhs of rupees the total amount that has been provided for the Mawlai Water Supply Scheme. If I am not mistaken in the case of Jowai, it has gone up to 70 to 76 lakhs of rupees or it may be more than that. Mr. Chairman, Sir, also in the case of Tura which is a little bit bigger than Mawlai it is about 60 lakhs or something like that. But for Mawlai town, Mr. Chairman, it is only about 22 or 23 lakhs. So Mr. Chairman, Sir, as I have said, I have already discharged, completely discharged from my breast any malice or ill-will against this Department. Why, because as I have already said, I have seen silver lining which I do hope that the Department will live up to its promises to meet the supply problem for the people of Mawlai and also Mr. Chairman, Sir, there is a proposal from the Department that the Mawlai Town Committee, whenever constituted, will have to take over the scheme. In this connection, I would like to re-emphasise and impress upon the Government that unless and until the scheme is fully complete to provide house connections, I think it will be humanly impossible fro the Town  Committee or Town Durbar to take over this Water Supply Scheme because the annual expenditure of this Scheme runs to about 80,000 to one lakhs or rupees. So, Mr. Chairman, Sir, if the Town Committee or Town Durbar would be asked to take over this scheme; I may submit Mr. Chairman, Sir, that at least from the Government side, they will have to improve this new distribution system and also to provide house connection because the only easy means to collect water tax is by providing house connections. Mr. Chairman, Sir, with these few words, I think the Government will be prepared and I will always be there at Mawlai together with the people of Mawlai to watch the performances of this Department and if the Department fails we will come again to meet, I hope, in the month of December in this same House or may be in the new House and again if the Department fails to live up to its promise that it has already given before, I will again re-harness my fury and just like a blazing furnace I will speak and let go against this Department. I have already forgiven all the things that the Department has been doing in so far as this scheme is concerned. I will just forget because of these new promises and wait till the Department fulfils its promises and I know the Department and the Government have got their own ears to hear what we are speaking in this august House. So with these few words, Mr. Chairman, Sir, I resume my seat and hope that the real silver lining will be real guidance to the people of Mawlai and the Minister, Mr. Sandford Marak. Thank you.

Shri S.N. Koch :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am thankful to the mover of this cut motion and also to the hon. Member who has spoken before me. Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would not take much time, but I will just touch one point on this very very important subject. Mr. Chairmen, Sir, I was one of the members of the Estimates Committee and the first opportunity that could be availed of by this Committee was to examine the the Water Supply Schemes and the working of the Department concerned. In course of our examination we came across most important point and that is that as soon as installation of the schemes is completed, these are handed over either  to the Village Committees or the District Councils. Mr. Chairman, Sir, this is well-known to the Government also that maintenance of water supply scheme is a very very expensive affair which is simply impossible for the Village Committees or Village Durbar especially if this scheme is not of gravity one. So Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to suggest to the Government that provision should be made that for a period of ten years minimum this schemes should be maintained by the Government first Government should maintain such water supply schemes for at least ten years otherwise it is not possible for the villagers to run it. One hon. Member has referred to Tura Water Supply Scheme and why it cannot cater to the need of Tura population because the District Council just cannot maintain it out of its own recourse as the expenditure comes to more than a lakh and it is quite impossible for the District Council to bear such expenditure. When this question of handling over of there Tura Water Supply Scheme to the District Council came up, I as one to the Members who attended the meeting, suggested and this would be too early to hand over because the people will suffer and not it has really come true. So my suggestion is that at least for ten years Government should maintain it wherever water supply schemes are implemented in our State and this is very essential especially in the rural areas where most of our people are ignorant and they do not know how to maintain and utilise the necessity of running the scheme. With these few words, I resume my seat.

Prof. A. Warjri :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I stand to support the cut motion. The motion was to discuss about the deficiency and lopsided policy of the Department in implementing the schemes. Well, I am not going to speak much about it whereas there are various complaint from time to time against this Department. However, I just would like to know that the Minister replies only to a few facts. For example as to how many schemes have been started and are till pending completion and how  many years since those various schemes have been started and why they could not be completed till now. Then also I would like to know how many schemes have been approved but as yet have not been executed or started by the Department. What I would like to speak most is about the supply of water in my constituency. Of course, it is the duty of the Municipality but the schemes are approved for the water supply of water as had been formulated by the PHE Department. I remember the time when I had to write a D.O. letter to the Chief Minister as well as the Chief Secretary when I could not get any satisfaction for the supply of water in my constituency, the Mawkhar Constituency. However thanks to the efforts made by the Chef Secretary, my dream and come true and that water or rather new lines have been opened from Barabazar to Mawkhar with a number of tanks in which the Minister in charge had the privilege to inaugurate one of the groups of tanks there. But it is sad to say through big tanks were there 8 of them in one place and 6 in another are all empty tanks without water at all. At the beginning I suggested that the water from Crinoline Falls shall go directly to Mawkhar to avoid what the engineers say the so-called friction or loss of water. But it was argued that the pipes would go to Barabazar and then come to Mawkhar and these were be filled up. But there is no water. I did not leave the matter at that. I approached the PHE and the Municipality. Last time when I met the CEO., he said that here is a proposal to take direct connection from a source at Lawsohtun to bring directly by a 2 '' pipes of Mawkhar. But he told me that the PHE Department have not given the so-called technical Okay and that has been laying with the PHE. Department for the last 5/6 months. I would request the Minister to instruct the Department to make a complete investigation or to give this technical approval so that this area that has been supplied with tanks should also be supplied with adequate quantity of water and since it is to be taken from that a place higher than the present tanks I would request that these two places where the tanks are placed should be raised a little  higher so as to supply water to the people who live in vicinity of those areas.

        Then another point I would like to mention here in general was also the supply of water for a part of my constituency in Mawlai but which falls within the municipal area. The Mawlai Water Supply Scheme seems to have nothing to do with this part of my constituency which is called as Nongmali or Nehru Colony which is a part of the Municipality. Taxes have been paid by the people and yet water connection or water supply is not there. Then last but not the least I would mention here something which is very very important for the whole State. The danger of cultivation in the catchment areas from which drinking water is supplied to the villages or to the towns. Whenever there is cultivation there is also a danger. People are now using artificial manure and other insecticides as just imagine when rains comes down carrying water with the mud and at the same time carrying with it some of these insecticides and fertilisers to the places where drinking water is being tapped and thus would cause much hardship, more difficulty and worst of all sorts of diseases to the people to take water from pipes drawn from such places. So I would request the Government that from now on whenever the PHE Department takes over to convert sources of water into catchment areas such areas should be converted into reserve forest so as to avoid this danger to human life. Then I have already said in my speech on the budget regarding the cutting of trees in the Shillong Catchment areas. If this cutting of trees is not stopped these areas will soon cease to be a catchment area I know there is no one to protect it. We have so many of these Meghalaya Police Battalion personnel sitting idle in Bishnupur. There are only two forest and the people are cutting trees left and right. If strong guards are not placed we shall have to shift the town to to the place. Therefore it is a very important thing that the Government should protect the area right from Shillong upto Madanriting. It should be protected and really protected. With these few words I resume my seat.

Shri H.E. Pohshna :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, while taking part in the discussion of the cut motion a very very important point, water is really a problem, The whole earth, of the earth comprises of water and is land. The water comes from the sea, water comes from the sky also water comes from the steams and still water is problem. Form the human body also water comes (laughter). Mr. Chairman, Sir, fortunately or unfortunately, in the hills of Meghalaya there is a cry for water in the towns as well as the rural areas. In olden days our forefathers when they established any village they looked first where they could have the source of water. Water is a problem. But now it is the water that goes to the people in the villages. Previously we have to establish the village near the water sources. But now, the water goes to the villages not say to the town. In the town water will go to the area and from the area to the house from the house to the kitchen and from the Kitchen to the latrines. Therefore, Sir, this is a continuous problem and with the increase of population the increase in the demand of water also is there. I would like to agree with the hon. Member from Mawkyrwat that we should first see the cases of the localities which are more in need of water. The people in the villages do not know how to cry much but the town people even if they have got little voice, loudspeakers and mikes are there for them to make their cry louder. Therefore, Sir, there has been a cry for water in Mawkhar long before the creation in this State for water in Mawkhar long before the creation of this  State for water supply in Mawkhar, Mawlai and the hon. member from Mawlai is afraid if the water supply scheme is handed over to the Town Committee as it will be a heavy burden to the Town Committee. If the Town Committee at Mawlai shares the burden, they will then realise also the heavy responsibility of the Public Health Department in maintaining the water supply schemes not to say of the Minister who in spite of his responsibilities is always smiling. Therefore, Sir, I know that his problem is a problem of the whole State. But while going to this, I would request the Department concerned not to take much interest in brining those big pipes gut to go for the pipes which can be carried from hills to hills and again to the plains. Therefore, Sir, while arguing with the hon. members who have participated on this same point, water supply schemes, I express that I appreciate the works undertaken by the Public Health Department since the coming into being of our State. Lots of water supply schemes have been undertaken and the people having in the rural areas fully co-operated with the Government in the Public Health Department and with the opening of new water supply projects new villages have come up in the places where there has been no population before. Therefore, Sir, with these few words, I would request the members that since we also have got a common problem, a very important scheme, at least in the houses, he should withdraw the cut motion and we also appreciate the words that have been spoken on the cut motion. With these few words, Sir, I resume my seat.

Mr. Chairman :- Does it mean that you oppose the cut motion?

Shri H.E. Pohshna :- Yes, Sir.

Shri Jormanik Syiem :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I also have got some observations to make about the working of this Department. We have heard so much about this Public Health Engineering Department but at least in my constituency, I have seen very little performance. We have started water supply to the Upper Shillong area for quite a number of years and the supply has been very very small but is capable of being improved. In those days the tapping of water was done through the Block which does not have sufficient  fund. But since the Public Health Engineering Department was started we had approached the Department to augment the water supply to these villages and at quite a number of time the officers of the Department have visited and have given hopes to the local people that supply of water would be improved. It is regrettable that to this day nothing has been done. Things are still where they were about twenty years ago. In fact the local people have shown the officers that the existing source can be improved and that water supply will be augmented for this area and also can be shared by some other villages like Mawklot, Nongpiur. So, it will be for the Government to see to the water from the existing source to be made available to the other villages even at the Public Health Unit at Upper Shillong and if proper tapping would be done it will be possible. But it is unfortunate that nothing has been done so far and I hope that the Government will realise that unless the Department concerned is geared up, perhaps we shall only hear the big name of the Department but we will not be able to see any work done to the people. I am not speaking for the town, but I am speaking for the villages who have entirely to depend on this Department.

        Another point which I would like to bring to the notice of the Department is whether the army authorities have got the power to monopolies all the water which they have refused to give to other people or rather they charged an exorbitant rate even for taking the water to the hospital at Upper Shillong. I would like to mention here that the source of water is at Raid forest of the Mylliem Syiemship and not in the Government Reserve forests which the Government would see whether the army authorities have got the authority to monopolise that water. For that reason, the army authorities may have approached the Government to get the monopoly of the water that is flowing to the Upper Shillong camp. I think it is worthwhile enquiring into this position whether the army authorities have been given any specific sanction or permission to monopolies the water that comes from the slope of the Shillong Peak. If not, why cannot the Public Health Engineering Department tap the water from that sources and distribute it to the villages including the army itself? Of course, this perhaps may not be the concerned of the Department but it is the concern of the Government itself. Unless somebody moves, somebody introduces the subject, the Government will not be able to take up the matter either with the army or with the Central Government. But whatever might be the case, I would appeal to the Government through you Sir, to see that this area also which is developing very rapidly and which is really in need of water supply should get water and Public Health Engineering Department should see that water supply is augmented by improving the source and intake from water can where we taken to Upper Shillong villages and to other areas wherever possible. It is no use giving false promise to the local people if the Department cannot implement the scheme, they should have been told that it is no possible so that the people will have to find out some other means. If they have given the hope then they should have come up with fulfillment of the promise, otherwise, the blame will go to the Department. With these few words, Sir, I support the cut motion.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to associate with the discussion of this cut motion. I will seek some clarifications from the Department concerned because the subject is very very important I would like to seek clarification only on a few points. No.1 Whether the Government is contemplating to hand over all completed water supply schemes to the local committees? No.2, whether there are rules and regulations in connection with providing house connections? If there are rules and regulations, I believe that private house connections should be tapped with the permission from the distribution  tanks and not from the main pipes lines because it disturbs the fair and equity distribution of water to the public tabs. Another point is that in many water supply schemes in the rural areas, it is found that most of the scheme are not fully completed. It is observed that at the beginning while preparation of estimates for a certain project is done, the pre-requisites were not taken into consideration before hand. Therefore, it is found that the schemes through declared completed but certain items of work here and there are still remaining incomplete but certain items of work here and there are still remaining incomplete and because of this fact, many local village committees in rural areas do not accept, do not come forward to take over such schemes. Because, once the scheme is handed over to the local committees, it is the duty of the local committees to maintain it. Another point which I would like to seek clarification is whether the Department is contemplating of giving water by pumping machines to those villages where gravity water supply schemes cannot be implemented. In that case if such a scheme is implemented the cost of POLs and other expenditure incurred in the day to day operation to be borne by the respective local committees or by the Department concerned? These are some of the clarifications which I would like to seek from the Government. 

Shri D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, it is indeed a very...........

Mr. Chairman :- But it was found that the hon. members always spoke about other things and so I would stress upon the hon. member to please come to the particular points in the cut motion.

Shri D.N. Joshi :- Yes, Sir, and I am here to discuss the lopsided policy of the Government. It is allowed, Sir. And then I have already stated that it is very important subject this Public Health.

        Now, as regards the Water Supply schemes in the rural areas and also in the urban areas through this Department I find that much has been done but much more has to be done. In this Session we have witnessed some important developments in our State; we are going to relax family planning by leaving it to the voluntary side of the people. There will be no imposition and through the discussion were could gather that our people are very much for increasing the population. We want to procreate more children now in order to preserve our race or tribes from being completely wiped out because apprehensions have been expressed that unless more children are begotten it will spell disaster for us in future. We have to take up and we are to see that they are properly brought up. Water plays a vital part of the existing population of Meghalaya and the water that has been tapped so far is not sufficient enough to meet their requirements. With the increase in population we must be very serious to tap more water sources . . . . . . .

Mr. Chairman :- Or to decrease the population.

Shri D.N. Joshi :- No, let us increase it. But we must at the same time find out new sources of water. Now, as my hon. fiend from Nongtalang has rightly started, a tendency has grown among the people that water is coming to their villages. Previously the villages are not situated where there is no water source but since they are now being supplied with water anywhere and everywhere, as the hon. members has rightly said, there is a tendency or the expectation that Government will supply waster in the dry areas and the Government is bound to tap water. Sir, the Public Health Engineering Department, it seems is faced with the problem of tapping new sources of water and in its zeal to show that it is very much up and doing, it is doing something which cannot escape public criticism also. It seems that they are very keen on purchasing pipes only even without bothering to examine or to ascertain whether they are going to utilise those pipes for the purpose for which they were purchased. For instance, there is a proposal to have a dam somewhere in Nongkrem. It is, I believe, not yet financed, the proposal is still being examined from the side of the Government.  From the side of the people I find there is an agitation against the proposed dam. So complete finalisation of the scheme has yet to see the light of the day; but, before it is finalised, we find that the Department have already finished purchasing water pipes and we find that those are lying scattered all over the place. Since the pipes are very big though they are not so well guarded there is no apprehension of them being taken away or of privilege. Had they been small pipes this time most of the pipes would have disappeared. So I do not see why the Department should purchase so much when that scheme has not been finalised.

Shri Sandford K. Marak (minister, Health) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I think the hon. member has been informed wrongly. Those pipes are not meant for the greater Shillong Water Supple Scheme; We have a scheme though not much has been done.

Shri  D.N. Joshi :- I think that this is for the Greater Shillong Water Supply scheme but for this also it should come from some source and probably, one of the sources is the dam there at Nongkrem. So I want that either the schemes are immediately implemented or purchases should be kept in abeyance till the project is finalised. 

        Now, as regards supply of water in my own locality. A few days ago there was a heavy shower. We have had some heavy showers right from the, month of March. The advent of the monsoon is a little earlier but I find that the water that comes out of the pipes is full of mud and not all the kind of water fit for drinking. Unless, it is kept under the tap and then with sedimentation and other things, it cannot be taken. I think from the municipality side there is chlorination but if the mud is mixed with chlorine it is very dangerous to health. In order to get drinking water we have had to go to certain natural springs from where water is drawn in those old days. So, something should be done to get the water purify before it comes to the tanks and from the tanks to the respective houses or pipes. 

        In the rural areas in different places in the State, I am glad whenever I have visited many villages are getting water from the pipes drawn from far off places. For this I must thank the Government for what they have done whatever they could within this short span of time but I have already stated that much is yet to be done. Proper schemes had to be drawn up and for their implementation there should be no hesitation in purchasing mat4erials before finalisation of the schemes. So with these few words, Mr. Chairman, Sir, I oppose the cut motion.

Mr. Chairman :- Minister in charge to reply.

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister in charge of Health) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am very grateful to the hon. Members who have taken part in these deliberations. As we know, water is very sensitive subject and this is one of the requirements which every man and women needs. Now this water supply scheme which we have undertaken in certain areas, in the rural and urban areas, aims at supply of drinking water to the people. Now if you just look at the topography of the State, you will find that our state is composed of 80 per cent hills and slopes, 'tillas' etc. So, Sir, you can well imagine what difficulty the Department has to face in this situation obtaining in this State. In spite of this difficulty, the Department has tried to give coverage to rural people with water supply. But then there are certain norms which have to be observed while undertaking any water supply scheme. There are some guidelines and norms laid down by the Government of India that have to be followed. For example those villages which do not have perennial water sources at a reasonable distance of 1.6 kilometers, it is not 2 K.M., that they should not get. The villages where people are endemic with cholera and other diseases and worms etc. but preference should be given to the weaker section of the people like schedule castes and scheduled tribes. Secondly, while implementing any scheme, the M.L.As. and M.D.Cs. and other local leaders to be consulted for selecting a scheme. Mr. Chairman, Sir, as I have already stated, the situation in this State is different and in spite of heavy downfall of rain, unfortunately in our State the soil is such that it cannot contain water. Because solid is sedimentary, especially in Garo Hills and the soil is very sandy and as soon as rain falls it disappears. It is not like Khasi Hills which is full of rocks, not very deep inside the earth. That is the reason why many of the water supply schemes could not be successful. I tried to study the position of the schemes district-wise and I find perhaps that the Jaintia Hills district is most successful in this respect. The performance of the Department is better there than elsewhere in the State. 

        Now I will come to the next point my time is also not very much. Some doubts have been expressed by the hon. Member, Shri B.B. Lyngdoh and by the mover of the cut motion that there was discrimination in selection of sites. He has stated that in Bhoi areas and western parts of Khasi Hills the people have been deprived of their due share which they deserve. To this, I would like to say that the Department made certain survey and submitted their report some time back. According to this survey, the conditions in certain areas are such that in spite of best attempt made by the Department it was found not feasible. Mr. Chairman, Sir, in my Department there are a few technical personnel like engineers, overseers etc. and in spite of the best desires on their part it is not possible to cover the whole area. I can only assure the hon. Member who have said that there is discrimination in giving due share of water supply schemes, that I will try to examine the matter and I will find out why some particular constituencies were left out. He mentioned about Bhoi and Mawkyrwat areas. I have personally visited the Mawkyrwat area and unfortunately, as correctly pointed our by the hon. Member, Shri H.E. Pohshna, the people would not go to the  water instead the water should come to the people, the villages are on top of the hills and without the help of electricity or any other mechanical means it is not possible to bring the water up. As we all know the universal truth that water always finds its own level or flow down but cannot go up......

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, may we know from the Minister whether in places where electricity is available, all the schemes have been taken up?

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister in charge of Health) :- I am coming to that point also. The hon. Member from Nongthymmai has started that the Department thinking is always consider and they never consider that old indigenous system of water supply. I remember when he was in the Cabinet I had consultation with him regarding supply of water through ring wells, cementing the water sources, etc. But it is a fact that when I toured certain parts of the State I spoke to the people whether they would be agreeable to accept tube well and pump well. But they refused to take the water from the tube well. They told me that they also want the water from the hill top to their villages even if it is four or five kilometers away, because they have seen in the urban areas, specially in Shillong, that in each and every house there are water pipes connected to their houses and I think that  they are also tempted to have the same types of water pipe. In their houses there. And recently the people of certain villages complained that water from the well or tube well is not palatable and it is not fit for drinking. But, Sir, I hold the same view that for the small villages in the hill areas we will go for the indigenous type and it may be by digging small well by putting some kind of cover on the top of it so that it will be free from pollution or the village headman may be asked to keep a woolen sheet on the top of the well so that it will protect the water from germs. So I would like to assure the hon. Members that as far as practicable this small scheme will be introduced very soon. The hon. Member also mentioned about the Cherra people that in the past they also refused to take water from the pipe. So, here the opinion differs from and to man and from place to place. Some people want to take water from the pipe and some people want it from the streams. So it depends on the taste of the people. Mr. Chairman, Sir, he also mentioned about Laitlyngkot where it is not possible to implement water supply schemes as the gravy is very low there and we can help only a few houses. And then the hon. Member mentioned about the Planning Commission's ban. It is very unfortunate that the  an has been imposed and they are of the opinion that these schemes which were taken up earlier, could not be completed because of this ban and so new schemes could be taken up. I also have my personal feeling that because of the imposition of this ban we have not been able to take up any new schemes and because of this reason hundreds of villages will suffer for not introducing new schemes because this is a continuing scheme and when old water supply schemes will be completed in one or two years then only the new schemes can be taken up. So, Sir, due to this ban on the new schemes to be undertaken, many villages will be deprived of the benefits of this scheme. Sir, I have the occasion to receive many complaints from the villagers as well as from the hon. Members about these schemes which have been sanctioned but have not been started. Sir, I am sorry to say that because of the ban on the new schemes, new schemed could not be undertaken.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, the Minister in charge can very well take up this matter with the Planning Commission and suggest to them that 60 per cent of the fund may be diverted to the old scheme and 40 per cent may be diverted to the new schemes.

Shri Sandford K. Marak (Minister in charge of Health) :- Yes, your suggestion is good and the Government have allotted certain funds for the old schemes and also some amounts for the new schemes and the Government will take into consideration the future water supply schemes in those areas. As far as possible and practicable, the disbursement of such funds will be done by the Department. Sir, the hon. Member from Chokpot has also mentioned that for the last five years or so the water supply scheme could not be completed in his area. I am sorry to say that in certain areas in Garo Hills it is extremely difficult on the part of the Department undertake such schemes. Now, Sir, I will give an example about deforestation. Sir, our Department used to make survey during the rain season and they had to wait till the next year to see. But our villagers are very reckless in cutting down the trees. So, next time when the measurement is taken, a completely different picture is revealed. I am sorry to mention here abut the Tura Water Supply Scheme that inspite of the District Council as well as the Forest Department's warning, the village and the Nokmas start felling down  trees in their areas. So, because of such reasons our Department cannot give exact estimation of our forest resources and because of the felling of trees there, that area will become dry and it is very difficult to find any water source. Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am sorry to hear from the officers that a news article was published about the dirty water being supplied to Shillong people. Now for the information of the hon. Members I would like to say that Phase I has been completed and Phase II is going to be completed. This is a clean water and now it is the comment of the people that the hill water would be always clearer than the plains water. So this scheme has been started and we also heard the complain about the water. Sir, this year, the people have started cultivation of potato in the catchment area and all the dirt's will be carried into the river making it completely red. Sir, when it comes to the treatment plant the colour of the water remains the same and than it looks very dirty. So, I would like to appeal to the hon. Members or Dolois or whoever are there to see that this catchment area is not affected and the felling of trees should be completed stopped.

        Now another thing Sir, I would like to inform the hon. Member from Mawkhar who said that our people are now using artificial manure and other pesticides in their fields in the catchment area and when rain comes  the rain water carries with it these fertilizer and insecticides into the streams and the water is completely polluted and it also comes to the treatment plant. So, Sir, it is the responsibility of our P.H.E. Department to see as to how to control such pollution of water. As you know I cam not the in charge of Forests and the people also will have to cultivate for their livelihood and if there is such cultivation in the catchment areas, it is the duty of the P.H.E to prevent the people from taking up such kind of cultivation. So, Sir, all these things are there and unless and until there is an equal sense of feeling in the minds of our people, I think, nothing much can be down on this particular matter. Sir, the hon. Member from Chokpot mentioned about the Tura Water Supply Scheme. When I was intervened while I was speaking on this matter, I informed the hon. Members that this scheme has been handed over to the District Council and also informed them that this is a very sensitive Department and that is why this water supply scheme could not be taken over because they have no personnel, no resources, no experts and engineers. So I know from the beginning that they will not be able to maintain the scheme but, unfortunately, they agreed to take it over. We have tried ands at the moment after we have combined the scheme with Rongkhong I think we are giving 50,000 gallons per hour. Now Tura has got two more other schemes, one near the D.C.'s bungalow and other other near Darengiri and I think we are giving 70,000 gallons per hour for the Tura people. So you can very well multiply 70,000 gallons by 24 and divide it by the population of Tura. You will find that each child, up to grandfather will get 70 gallons a day. The only problem is the distribution system which has not been done properly and that is why certain areas get sufficient quantity of water where water is every flowing and other areas do not get water at all because  the system was one many years ago. Same is the case with Shillong. Here also the system of distribution was done while Shillong was a small town. But now about one and a half lakhs of people are living in Shillong.. The hon. Member also mentioned about this Dikri Dam that if somebody pushes a finger at the dam would collapse.

Shri Jackman Marak :- I brought this fact.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, P.H.E.) :- Logically I am tempted to disagree with him because if a dam is to be pushed with a human finger with it collapse. Anyway I assure the hon. Member that I will try to send the officer, as I know he is very much concerned about the area. I know the villages, of Dikrigiri and Chokpot are deprived of water. It is very unfortunate that for want of power we could not have done a lot of good to the people. I assure the hon. Member that as far as possible their seed will be properly looked after. The hon. Member from Rongjeng also mentioned about planning and implementation of schemes by the Department. Now he has referred to the Cabinet decision that no treatment plant or sedimentation taken could be provided by the Government, I do not know whether such a decision has been taken in the past. However I will check up if there had been such a decision and if so it has to be changed. So we should not deprive the rural people of the treated water while in the town the people are getting. We should not under estimate them. Another hon. Member who is very vocal every year on this particular subject is the hon. Member from Mawlai. I do not know how many times we have met and discussed and we have really acted upon according to our discussions but unfortunately things had been the same and did not move in the right direction. I have been trying to find out the secret history behind the Mawlai Water Supply Scheme. I have not come across any such files but I am told, how far it is true I do not know, it was done very haphazardly. While planning was done and estimates were prepared the distribution system was not taken into account. Had there been right decision from the beginning about a scheme for lacing the distribution that problem would have been solved by now. I am told that the distribution system that had been in existence at Mawlai and a very old system. I do not know how the plan was conceived then and I think it was a very wrong plan without distribution system. How are we giving water to private houses without proper distribution system? That is why this problem has been there right from the very beginning and I know that Mr. Khongwir with all the vehemence and fury at his command will appreciate this.

Mr. Chairman :- But he said he has forgotten.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, P.H.E.) :- I know Mr. Khongwir was a very kind hearted man that in spite of the failure of the Department he has the patience to wait so long. So, I will not got into the details because these are known to many of us. On our own level we will sort it out and see that the Department takes interest in the scheme. The only point is that according to the norm, laid down by the Government of India any scheme undertaken by the Government should be handed over to certain bodies whether it is the local body or the town committee or local committee. Now Mawlai is a big town, perhaps second or third town in Meghalaya. While I was incharge of Municipal Administration. I requested the hon. Member who happens to be the General Secretary of the Mawlai Town Durbar to constitute into a Town Committee but I do not know whether any election has been held to elect the members of the Town Committee. Even then I feel that ultimately Government will have to maintain the scheme because I know, as in the case of the District Council, Garo Hills which is getting this Government aid, even such a big body cannot maintain the scheme. So I do not think that the people of Mawlai can maintain the schemes and ultimately the Government will have to take over and maintain it. Once we take over this particular schemes and maintain other towns will come with similar demands.

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- We can make a start with the Mawlai Water Supply Scheme and see what happens.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, P.H.E.) :- I am sure he is a very fine a able leader and he can convince the people about the difficulties of the Department and I think with his contribution and helps we can ultimately solve this problem.

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- But I brought this to the notice of the Minister since 1968.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, P.H.E.) :- I am sorry that nothing much has been done to improve the schema but I will send my officers as early as possible, may be after the prorogation of this Assembly. He also said that unless and until the scheme is fully completed the Committee would not be able to take it over. So I would advise that unless and until this scheme is fully completed they should not take it over.

        The hon. Member from Mendipathar. Mr. Koch has offered certain suggestions. He is of the opinion that the Government should provide certain sums for the maintenance of completed water supply schemes in the interior. In this connection, Mr. Chairman, Sir, we have been trying to collect information from other States like Himachal Pradesh and Nagaland whether after completion of the schemes, the schemes were handed over to the local authorities or not. As soon as we get the information, then only we will be able to decide. In certain States, I am told that in spite of such norms or rules laid down by the Government, the Government has still to maintain the schemes I am told, subject to correction, Mr. Chairman, Sir, that even in the prosperous States like Punjab, the villages refused to take over the schemes for maintenance after completion. If that be the case, we have moved the Government of India in order to step up backward State like Meghalaya that maintenance should be done by the Government. We are trying to collect information from other States. This will have to be arrived at. In case the information is correct the Government will maintain the schemes after completion then we will have to decide on that line. 

        Prof. A Warjri, the hon. Member from Mawkhar, wanted to know about the schemes that have been started but not yet completed. Then he wanted to know how many schemes have been approved but not executed. I do not know whether I have got the information here with me.

Prof. A. Warjri :- I think the Minister need not reply. I would prefer to have it by communication because the time is short.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, P.H.E.) :- Anyway I will try to give him the details later on.

Prof. A. Warjri :- For Mawkhar.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, P.H.E.) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, Mawkhar Water Supply Scheme is under the Municipality. The water goes direct from Crinoline falls to Barabazar as per the suggestion of the Chief Executive Officer, Shillong Municipality, and the schemes were executed on behalf of the Municipality. He had mentioned about tapping of water from the spring near Sericulture Farm. The yield of water from Sericulture Farm has reduced to 5,000 gallons from 30,000 gallons approximately per day, I hope the P.H.E. is closely observing this spring before giving technical sanction because, as pointed out earlier, unless and until they are satisfied with their own findings, I would not advise to give technical sanction otherwise, if the scheme fails, the Department gets the blame and at the same time, the money is wanted.

Prof. A. Warjri :- My request to the Minister is that he should ask the Department to translate this scheme into reality.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, P.H.E.) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I cannot commit off-hand. If it is feasible, definitely we will do it because so long we have been trying to locate the water sources. Near Lady Hydari park or Pinemount School compound, some underground water is there. But unfortunately, it was considered by other Department that it will affect the function of the school. So we are trying by all means to increase supply of water. With the inception this Department along with the State, I think the total supply of water given by the P.H.E is 3 lakh gallons from Umkhen-Phase I and Phase II. We cannot have taken more but, unfortunately the Army Authorities did not agree. I have had preliminary talks  with them and I think they will agree. We are tying to improve but then as pointed out earlier, in Shillong particularly the distribution system was designed for only 30,000 people. Now that the population has been more than four times, it is extremely difficult to meet the demand of water. Unless the whole distribution is re-laid, equal distribution will not be possible.

        Mr. Pohshna has mentioned that he is quite satisfied and he is of the same view that in the old days, people go to the water, but now the water toes to the people. I would agree with him now that we have charged that attitude, instead of going down to the water, we want that water should come and stay with us.

        The hon. Member from Mylliem has stated that there is a chance of improving the existing water sources. I will see that my people go there and examine it. I am sorry that some hopes have been given to the people by the officers may be they do not know at the beginning and later on, it proves to be a false promise. I will see that something it done at least to regain the confidence of the people in those areas. He wanted to know about the position of water supply source near the Air Force campus. In this  connection, I do not think I can give any information. The hon. Member himself belongs to that area and perhaps he knows how the contract or the deed or agreement has been entered into between the Army Authorities or the Air Force Authorities and the Government in the past. I will not be able to tell now. But I will have to see. 

Shri Jormanik Syiem :- May I request the Minister that this should be enquired into. How the Army Authorities can claim monopoly over this source which comes from the Raid forests.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, P.H.E.) :- We will try to find out how far they have a right over the source.

        The hon. Member from Sohra sought certain clarification whether Government is contemplating handing over the completed schemes to the local committees. It is not contemplation. It is the Government policy already taken that as soon as the schemes are completed, they should be handed over to the local committees and they should maintain them. He wanted to know about private connections. I am told that unfortunately one connection from this distribution line has been given to a certain person in that area. Perhaps that is why it has become an eyesore. But the reply given to him by the Department was that particular connection is very far from the main tank. That is why it is drawn and this case has to be considered for giving connection to him. 

Shri S.P. Swer :- May we know the distance that is considered far from the main tank?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, P.H.E. etc) :- I require notice.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- That is not a question hour.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, P.H.E.) :- I need time for this.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I want to get a categorical assurance from the Minister concerned that providing house connections should not be allowed from the main tank.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, P.H.E.) :- Well, Mr. Chairman, Sir, his particular question has definitely come up during question hour a few days ago and I have replied to this.

Shri S.P. Swer :- I mean in general, if I am not mistaken, there are certain rules and regulations even in the Shillong Municipality that providing private house connection is not allowed from the main tank. It should be from the distribution centre.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, P.H.E.) :- I think Mr. Chairman, Sir, I have replied to this. I have told the hon. Member that perhaps it was done on compassionate grounds or some other grounds. Any way I will examine this question and if there is illegal connection, we will take some action. Perhaps the hon. Member might recall that the hon. Member from Chokpot was provided with house connection and perhaps on some grounds it has been given to him. This is illegal.

Mr. Chairman :- The Minister has replied that he will look into it.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, P.H.E.) :- But I have another point. Some members have said that many schemes have been taken up but not fully completed. There are certain schemes which have been partly completed. Then another suggestion raised by the hon. Member from Nongthymmai that one scheme has not yet been completed. Well this will have to completed side by side with the new schemes that have to be examined and executed.

        Then another point, the hon. Member from Cantonment has pointed out to the dumping of pipes. He was thinking that perhaps these pipes are mean from the Greater Shillong Water Supply Scheme. But there may be some other scheme that have been approved and which cannot be executed because we cannot bring pipes in one day. The Department fix them the next day and make a supply of water. This will be very expensive and impossible. Of course, I do not know if there has been an excess stock or not. This will have to be examined. Then the hon. member also complained of muddy water. This may be true in those areas where water is drawn from the untreated source and naturally, we cannot help to prevent such muddy water from such a source. In this connection, I think the hon. Member might have soon in Gauhati how water is being treated in the treatment plant, how water drawn from the Brahmaputra is being treated in the treatment plant. How sophisticated this water treatment  plant that was installed there and I hope in future, the Greater Shillong Water Supply scheme will be able to equip with such sophisticated plant, with such type of water supply scheme and this will be much better than what we have at the present moment. But in absence of a sophisticated treatment plant I do not know how we will be able to improve our water supply scheme. I would request the hon. Member to kindly consult the farmers also not to pollute water and help the department by persuading the general public not to clear up the catchment areas in future. Now I have got very little time, yet I am grateful to all Members who have taken part in this particular cut motion. This is a very sensitive subject, not only sensitive, but very important and therefore, active co-operation of the general public with this Department is very much essential in order to develop our towns and villages. This Department is closely connected with the general health and sanitation of the people and so..............

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, before the Minister resumes his seat, I want or raise one question whether the Government encourages water supply schemes by pumping machine wherever suitable?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, P.H.E.) :- Well, Mr. Chairman, Sir, I will explain on that. the hon. Member wanted fuel to be supplied. If you have got our you will have to put petrol on it otherwise without petrol your car cannot run. This is a very sensitive subject, as I have stated earlier, it requires grater and fuller cooperation of the public. Since many hon. Members have given very good suggestions, which I have also taken note of, I would like to tell them that as soon as possible I till try to comply with all their good suggestions. So with these few words, I would request the hon. mover to kindly withdraw his cut motion. 

Mr. Chairman :- In view of the absence of the mover of this cut motion, as per Sub rule (2) of Rule 267, I declare the Cut Motion is deemed to have been withdrawn.

        Now another cut motion which stands in the name of Shri S.D. Khongwir. He is also absent. So the cut motion is deemed to have been withdrawn. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount Rs.83,49,000, be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "282-Public Health Sanitation and Water Supply-D-Sewerage and Water Supply and "283-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings".

        (The motion was carried and the demand was passed) Now we come to Grant No.39.

Shri U. Kharbuli (Minister of State, Town and Country Planning) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.5,95,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "283-Housing-A-General and B-Housing Schemes".

Mr. Chairman :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.5,95,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "283-Housing-A-General and B-Housing Schemes".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Now I call upon the Minister in charge of P.W.D. to move Grant No.40.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister P.W.D.) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.20,07,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "283-Housing-II-C-Government Residential Buildings (In charge of Public Works Department)" .

Mr. Chairman :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion. I put that the question that that an amount of Rs.20,07,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "283-Housing-II-C-Government Residential Buildings (In charge of Public Works Department)" 

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)
Grant No.41.

Shri U. Kharbuli (Minister of State, Municipal Administration) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.2,52,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "284-Urban Development -A-General-I-Municipal Administration".

Mr. Chairman :- Motion moved. There are two cut motion the first cut motion stands in the name of Shri W. Syiemiong, Shri S.D. Khongwir, Shri Rowell Lyngdoh and Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh and the other one stand in the name of Shri Jormanik Syiem.

        Now all the four members who give notice of cut motion No.1 are absent. So the cut motion is deemed to have been withdrawn. So another is in the name of Shri Jormanik Syiem.

Shri Jormanik Syiem :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.2,52,000 under Grant No.41, Major head "284-Urban Development -A-General-I-Municipal Administration", at page 305 of the Budget be reduced by Rs.100 i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs.2,52,000 do stand reduced by Rs.100.

Mr. Chairman :- Motion moved. Now, you can initiate the discussion.

Shri Jormanik Syiem :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, we all know the Municipality has been the first Governing Body in the county and it has been functioning since the British rule and has been allowed to function as representative bodies although the country did not get independence. Now in the municipal administrations, elected representatives have the right over management and control. But here in Shillong for quite a number of years the municipal administration has been  managed and controlled by the officer, the C.E.O. as we have now. It is true that the administration under him has functioned satisfactorily but the rate payers feel that they should have the administration functioned through their own representative and therefore Mr. Chairman, Sir, I brought this cut motion for the consideration of the Government whether it is so that the administration could be functioned by the accredited representatives of the rate payers. It seems that Government is sleeping over it and therefore, it is time that this House should consider pass an order whether this Municipality of Shillong should have election in the near future. With these few words, Sir, I move this cut motion. 

Mr. Chairman :- Anyone.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- I rise to support the cut motion Mr. Chairman, Sir,. There should be a civic representation from the people because for so long we have been deprived of the participation of the people in the State. Therefore, I would request that they should in immediately hold election and not only of this municipality alone but in every town committee and all. With these words Sir, I resume my seat.

(At this stage the Speaker occupied the Chair)

Mr. Speaker :- So the Minister to reply now.

Shri Upstar Kharbuli (Minister of State Municipal Administration) :- First of all I would like to thank the hon. Member from Mylliem who has come out with this cut motion whereby he could get scope of expressing his opinion which I hope is not only the opinion for him alone but might have been of that of the general populace of the town itself. One thing I would disagree with him. I think he stated that Government has been sleeping over it but, I can assure him that since I have taken over charge of this portfolio I have got all the papers, connected papers examined and what I found is that the stand taken by the Government in those days was not in favour to have election. It seems that it no longer held good. For instance I found that there were flimsy grounds they stated because of the shifting of the capital like Arunachal it will be conducive to hold election and I think for so long it seemed to be so and in view of these findings the Government have decided in principle that we would go in for election at the earliest possible time. But at the same time the hon. Member must also realise the time factor, like preparation of electoral rolls and things like that. This will take some time and I would request that our friend should bear in mind that such election, I think, should not be held during the time when the general election,  will be there. So these things should not coincide but we can assure our fiend that the long-felt need to have a civic election  will be considered and that will be at the earliest possible. So with these few words I would request the hon. Member to withdraw his cut motion.

Shri Jormanik Syiem :- I would like to know Sir, why the election to the Municipal Board should coincide with the general election. May we know when our general election is going to be held? Supposing it is held this year.

Shri Upstar Kharbuli (Minister of State Municipal Administration) :- I am suggesting this because we all know that we are going to have the election to the Municipality as soon as the term expires and also in view of the fact that we cannot hold election during the monsoon.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, a point of clarification, may we know whether delimitation of the wards has been done or not?

Shri Upstar Kharbuli (Minister of State Municipal Administration) :- This has long  been completed, if I am not mistaken and subject to correction, since 1974-75.

Shri W. Syiemiong :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, can not the municipal elections be held within the monsoon itself because in the town we do not see that the monsoon will have any effect?

Shri Upstar Kharbuli (Minister of State, Municipal Administration) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform the hon. Members that it will take some time to prepare all these things for having the election like appointment of enumerators and the setting up of a cell for preparation of the electoral rolls and all that. We have to take some time also for filling of claims in the electoral rolls. So I do not know whether by that time the monsoon will come to an end or not.

Shri Jormanik Syiem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the assurance given by the Minister, I withdraw the cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw the cut motion? (Voices : yes, yes).

        The cut motion is with the leave of the House withdrawn. 

        Now, the Chief Minister to move Grant No.42.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.12,62,000 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "284-Urban Development-A-General-II-Town and Regional Planning".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved and since there is no cut motion I put the question before the House. That an amount of Rs.12,62,00 be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "284-Urban Development-A-General-II-Town and Regional Planning".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Minister-in-charge of Information and Publicity to move Grant No.43.

Shri P.G. Marbaniang (Minister in charge of Information and Publicity) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that an amount of Rs.14,57,500 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "285-Information and Publicity".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. There is one cut motion standing in the name of Shri Alexander Warjri and Shri H. Nongrum, Mr. Warjri to move the cut motion.

Shri Alexander Warjri :- I will not move, Sir.

Mr. Speaker :- Now I put the question before the House. That an amount of Rs.14,57,500 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "285-Information and Publicity".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.44. The Chief Minister to move.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor I beg, to  move that an amount of Rs.22,77,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "287-Labour and Employment-I-A-Labour".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved and since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. That an amount of Rs.22,77,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "287-Labour and Employment-I-A-Labour".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.45. The Chief Minister to move.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor I beg, to  move that an amount of Rs.84,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head  "287-Labour and Employment-II-A-Labour-Inspectorate of Factories and Steam Boilers".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved and since there no cut motion, I put the question before the House. That an amount of Rs.84,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head  "287-Labour and Employment-II-A-Labour-Inspectorate of Factories and Steam Boilers".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

Grant No.46. The Chief Minister to move.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor I beg, to  move that an amount of Rs.10,88,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "287-Labour and Employment-II-B. Employment and Training".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved and since there is no cut motion I put the question before the House. That an amount of Rs.10,88,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "287-Labour and Employment-II-B. Employment and Training".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.47. Minister in charge of Food and Civil Supplied to move.

Shri E. Bareh (Minister i/c Food and Civil Supplies) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, to  move that an amount of Rs.13,50,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-A-I-Civil Supplies".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved and I have received 4 cut motions Cut motion No.1 is a policy cut. But the intention of the mover is to raise a discussion which is not a token cut. So, I rule is as outdated. Cut motion No.2 is in the name of Mr. S.D. Khongwir, he is absent. So it is deemed to have been withdrawn.

        Cut motion No.3 is in the name of Mr. Y.F. Lyngdoh and Shri W. Syiemiong.

        The intention of the movers of the cut motion is to raise a policy cut. but it is not a token cut. So it is out of order. So also Cut Motion No.4 standing in the name of Mr. Jackman Marak. Now, I put the question before the House. That an amount of Rs.13,5000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-A-I-Civil Supplies".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.48. Minister in charge of Social Welfare to move.

Shri P.G. Marbaniang (Minister in charge of Social Welfare) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, to  move that an amount of Rs.8,42,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-B-II, Relief and Rehabilitation of Displaced persons".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved and since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. That an amount of Rs.8,42,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-B-II, Relief and Rehabilitation of Displaced Persons".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.49. Minister in charge of Social Welfare to move.

Shri P.G. Marbaniang (Minister, Social Welfare) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, to  move that an amount of Rs.48,94,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-C-III-Welfare of Schedule Castes, Scheduled Tribes and other Backward Classes-C-Social Welfare".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received three cut motions but they are not in order. So I put the question before the House. That an amount of Rs.48,94,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "288-Sicial Security and Welfare-C-III-Welfare of Schedule Castes, Scheduled Tribes and other Backward Classes-C-Social Welfare".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

Grant No.50. the Chief Minister to move.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, to  move that an amount of Rs.82,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "-288-Social Security and Welfare-D-Other Social Security and Welfare Programme-IV-Soldiers, Sailors' and Airmen's Board".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved and there is one cut motion standing in the name of Mr. R. Lyngdoh. But it is out of order. So I put the question before the House. That an amount of Rs.82,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-D-Other Social Security and Welfare Programmes-IV-Soldiers, Sailors' and Airmen's Board".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

Grant No.51. the Chief Minister to move.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg, to  move that an amount of Rs.5,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-E-Other Social Security and Welfare Programme-V-Other Programmes".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved and since there is no cut motion I put the question before the House. That an amount of Rs.5,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "288-Social Security and Welfare-E-Other Social Security and Welfare Programmes-V-Other Programmes".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        The time is now 1.30 p.m.. I guillotine the rest of the cut motions.

        Grant No.52. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.4,00,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "289-Relief on account of Natural Calamities".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.53. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.2,40,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "295-Other Social and Community Services".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.54. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.9,95,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "296-Secretariat Economic Services-I-Civil Department."

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.55. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.9,35,600 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "296-Secretariat Economic Services-II-Planning Boards etc."

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.56. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.54,35,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "298-Co-operation".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.56(a). I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.89,75,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "299-Special and Backward Areas-C-North Eastern Areas".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.57. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.14,01,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "304-Other General Economic Services-I-Economic Advice and Statistics".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.58. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.4,46,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "304-Other General Economic Services-II-Regulation of Weight and Measures".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.58(a). I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,95,300 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "304-Other General Economic Services-III-Land Ceilings".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.59. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.2,34,44,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "305-Agriculture/306-I-Minor Irrigation/295-Other Social and Community Services/238-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Next, Grant No.61. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,42,8000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "307-Soil and Water Conservation and 283-Housing-C-Government Residential Building".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.62. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,22,00,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "308-Area Development".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.63. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,37,68,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "310-Animal Husbandry and 283-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.64. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.33,25,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "311-Dairy Development and 283-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)        

        Grant No.65. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.16,82,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "312-Fisheries".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.66. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,27,50,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "313-Forests".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.67. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,35,94,400 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "314-Community Development and 283-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings and 288-Socail Security and Welfare".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.68. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.8,00,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "314-Community Development-II-C-Rural Works Programme".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.69. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.15,03,500 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "320-Industries".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.70. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.39,28,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "321-Village and Small Industries-I-Handloom and Sericulture and 283-Housing-C-Governemnt Residential Buildings".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.71. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.46,84,200 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "321-Village and Small Industries-II-Small Industries".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.72. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.25,04,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "328-Mines and Minerals-B-Regulation and Development of Mines".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

         Grant No.74. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.6,66,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "333-Irrigation, Navigation, Drainage and Flood Control Projects". 

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

         Grant No.75. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.2,35,00,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "337-Roads and Bridges". 

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

         Grant No.77. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.15,44,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "339-Tourism".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

         Grant No.79. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.70,57,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "459-Capital Outlay on Public Works".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

         Grant No.79-A. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.44,70,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "477-Capital Outlay on Education, Art and Culture, 480-Capital Outlay on Medical, 481-Capital Outlay on Family Planning, 510-Capital Outlay on Animal Husbandry and 511-Capital Outlay on Dairy Development".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

         Grant No.80. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,40,60,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "482-Capital Outlay on Public Health, Sanitation and Water Supply". 

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.81. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.16,80,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "483-Capital Outlay on Housing-A-Government Residential Buildings (in-charge of P.W.D.")

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.84. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.18,75,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "498-Capital Outlay on Co-operation".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.84-A. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.1,06,00,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "499-Capital Outlay on Special and Backward Areas-C-North Eastern Areas".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.85-A. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.2,00,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "505-Capital Outlay on Agriculture".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.86. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.2,00,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "506-Capital Outlay on Minor Irrigation, Soil Conservation and Area Development".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.86-A. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.4,32,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "509-Capital Outlay on Food and Nutrition".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.88. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.32,25,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "520-Capital Outlay on Industrial Research and Development".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.89. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.2,86,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "521-Capital Outlay on Village and Small Industries".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.93. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.12,00,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "533-Capital Outlay on Irrigation, Navigation, Drainage and Flood Control Projects."

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.94. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.20,00,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "537-Capital Outlay on Roads and Bridges.

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.95. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.3,00,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "538-Capital Outlay on Road and Water Transport Services."

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.97. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.20.000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "677-Loans for Education, Art and Culture".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.99. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.10,00,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "683-Loans for Housing".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.102. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.5,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "688-Loans for Social Security and Welfare-II-Loans to Ex-Service Personnel".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

         Grant No.102-A. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.4,10,700 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "68-Loans for Social Security and Welfare-III-Welfare of Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and Other Backward Classes".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

         Grant No.103. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.5,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head  "695-Loans for Other Social and Community Services".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

         Grant No.104. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.7,20,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "698-Loans to Co-operative Societies".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

         Grant No.106. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.20,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "705-Loans for Agriculture".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

         Grant No.111. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.3,50,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "721-Loans for Village and Small Industries".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.113. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.2,44,00,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "734-Loans for Power Project".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.113. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.43,20,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "766-Loans to Government Servants".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Grant No.114. I put the question before the House. The question is that an amount of Rs.52,24,000 be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1978 for the administration of the head "768-Inter-State Settlement".

(The motion was carried and the demand was passed)


THE MEGHALAYA APPROPRIATION (No.II) BILL, 1977

        Item No.3. The Chief Minister to move.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg leave to introduce the Meghalaya Appropriation (No.II) Bill, 1977.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Now I put the question before the House. The question is that leave be granted to introduce the Bill.

(The motion was carried and leave be granted.)

        Before I ask the Chief Minister to introduce the Bill, may I read the message from the Governor.

"RAJ BHAVAN

SHILLONG

The 2nd June, 1977

        In exercise of the power conferred by Clause (1) of Article 207 of the Constitution of India, I, Lallan Prasad Singh, Governor of Meghalaya hereby recommend to the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly the introduction of the Meghalaya Appropriation (No.II) Bill, 1977.

L.P. SINGH,

GOVERNOR"

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to introduce the Bill.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Now I put the question before the House. The question is that the Bill be introduced.

(The motion was carried)

(The Secretary read out the title of the Bill)

        Before I ask the Chief Minister to move the Bill be taken into consideration, I will read the message from the Governor.

"RAJ BHAVAN

SHILLONG

The 2nd June, 1977.

        In exercise of the powers conferred by Clause (3) of Article 207 of the Constitution of India, I, Lallan Prasad Singh, Governor of Meghalaya hereby, recommend to the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly the consideration of the Meghalaya Appropriation (No.II) Bill, 1977.

L.P. SINGH,

GOVERNOR".

        Will the Chief Minister move.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Sir, I beg to move that the Meghalaya Appropriation (No.II) Bill, 1977 be taken into consideration.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Now I put the question before the House. The question is that the Bill be taken into consideration.

(The motion was carried)

        In case of appropriation Bill generally no further consideration is necessary except when the Members want to seek some points which deal with technical matters to be clarified. In this case Prof. M.N. Majaw wants further clarification from the Government on six important points.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am grateful to you for giving me this opportunity to seek some clarification. I would hasten to added that there is no intention whatsoever to criticise the Budget or the Appropriation Bill. It is merely to ensure that as responsible Member of this House we are fully aware of what is happening in the Government. For example in this Grant No.27 in the Appropriation Bill under the head "Aid materials and equipments" I had thought that this would be deducted as recoveries or there would be a subtraction from the gross expenditure so that we will have not expenditure which is not being authorised by the House for withdrawal from the Consolidated Fund of Meghalaya. The amount which has been demanded by the Chief Minister now will not include "recoveries" which means double authorisation for the same items.

Mr. Speaker :- That point you have raised before also.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- I would like to point out here in this respect Mr. Speaker, Sir, that I have been looking through the Old Budget that I have with me. When the new form of classification came into being during 1974-75, under the Head of Grant No.27 no demand was made whereas an entry was made in the Budget Book. It was the same in 1975-76; both on positive and negative side of the Grant no demand was made. The system which we are following is not different. We have the Book entries also and we have moved a demand for Rs.8,43,000. Sir, the proceedings of this Assembly are also being sent to some places outside this country and therefore, we should not through oversight make errors in budgeting. In 1974-75, under Grant No.27 no demand was made, while an entry was made in the Book. Now, however, under Grant No.27 a demand is being made through the Appropriation Bill. I raise this  because the Chief Minister may not be able to...............

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- I have received some points but not all the points.

Mr. Speaker :- As I said just now the Members seek some clarification on some points. But it is not expected that the Chief Minister will be able to reply to those points. He may not be well versed in all these matters. The hon. Member has brought these points for future consideration.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- I would humbly submit that we would wish to know whether the entry under Grant No.27 is proper or not. At this stage under the Appropriation Bill, I feel that it should be shown as a recovery, because we have passed only net expenditure. But it has unfortunately been again included in this Appropriation Bill, without any recoveries.

        Then Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to enquire about collections under the Arms Act. This point was raised by me during the Budget discussion and a reply was given that the information is being collected. My point is that although tax is been collected under the Arms Act, nothing has been shown as collection or receipts. I think the Chief Minister has to pay fees for renewal of license of his gun, to the Deputy Commissioner, Garo Hills. But in the receipt volume of the Budget it has not been shown: as if no collection has been made under the Arms Act. Some people say in the Finance Department that perhaps such collections have been placed under Suspense Accounts. But I have consulted the officers of the Accountant General and they say it cannot be in the Suspense Account. Then again others say that it is due to mis-clarification of the accounts. There again the reply from the Accountant Generals, office is that when the public go to deposit their fees under the Arm Acts that money has to be given in cash and not through Treasury Challans. Then the officer who collect such fees has to deposit the same with Treasury Challans under a particular head ..........

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Sir, as I said..............

Mr. Speaker :- I have also clarified that the hon. Member is mentioning about some procedural matters.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to refer to the shares of the District Councils. This is of course for the future. I would request the Government to see that the due shares of the District Councils are given in time. There are arrears of about Rs.11 lakhs due to the Khasi Hills District Council. The amount is due from the Department of Mines and Minerals. The District Councils have already written to the Government many times. So I would request the Government to release this amount of Rs.11 lakhs as quickly as possible. Then again under the Motor Vehicle Act, 75 per cent of the collection of the fees under the Motor Vehicles Act goes to the Garo Hills District Council. But, Sir, it is wonder that the Khasi Hills District Council gets only 25 per cent instead. The explanation being given is that Shillong does not come under the Autonomous District Councils. But, Sir, in view of the Supreme Courts' ruling that only three wards are outside the jurisdiction of the Autonomous Khasi Hills District Councils the Government should give some rethinking to this matter and grant a larger percentage of fees derived from the Motor Vehicles Tax. Sir, we know that a unanimous resolution was passed by the Khasi Hills District Council demanding and equal share of 75 per cent of all collection under the M.V. Act for the District Council. Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the land revenue collection would like to know from the Government about the enquiries made regarding the collection of land revenue from the transfer of land from one person to another.

Mr. Speaker :- Here I would like to remind the hon. Members about the point raised by the hon. member which have already been disposed of by this House on an earlier occasion. For instance, so far as the fees for land transfer are concerned, I have already made an observation that the Minister in charge of Revenue should see that regularisation should be made if there is any wrong in this matter and which the competent authority it may be corrected and put in some other heads. So I have already observed it in this manner and so for as other items are concerned in regard to Grant No.27 this is really a matter of procedure. I think it is too early to say that whether the practice which was followed in 1974-75, 1975-76 was correct or the method which has been followed in 1976-77 and 1977-78 is correct. I think it is high time that the Chief Minister will take up this matter with the appropriate authorities in what manner this matter can be regularise. In future, so far as the procedural matter are concerned, I think I will take them in the next conference of the Speakers and after that I will discuss with the Government about the necessary steps to be taken in future about such matters. But so far as other  issues are concerned. I think the Chief Minister can reply now to the hon. Member. Actually he wants the assurance from the Government that the Motor Vehicles Act should be more than that of Garo Hills District Council and so also the percentage on collection of fees from arms and ammunition should be more.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the points raised by the hon. Member I would like to inform the House that as far as Grant No.27 is concerned, I have already made it clear before the House. Under the revised classification and the accounting procedure adopted by the Comptroller and Auditor General of India the value of aid materials and equipments received from the Government of India has to be booked under the head "267-Aid Materials and Equipments". However, the aid materials received from the Government of India may be utilised by various Departments of the Government. To enable these departments to incur expenditure from out of such aid materials, etc. necessary provisions have to be made in their respective heads of account and necessary authorization received from the Legislature. Unless such authorization is received from the Legislature for incurring the expenditure under their respective heads of accounts, this Departments would not be able incur any expenditure in connection therewith. For this purpose, it is necessary that provision is made to the extent required under the different heads of accounts concerned, even though the provision is being made under the head "267-Aid Materials and Equipments." To this extent there will be an element of double authorisation, but then this is essential to enable the Departments to spend their share of aid materials. However the double authorisation  will not lead to double expenditure (net) as there will be corresponding entry for recoveries.

Mr. Speaker :- As the Chief Minister has replied about this particular matter and as I have already told the hon. Member regarding other points which are matters of procedure, it will be taken up later on.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the practice followed during the year 1974-75 it is known that the Assam Assembly followed or adopted another methods there.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, According to my information the Government of Assam also is following the same procedure.

Mr. Speaker :- I have already given my observation that we will follow the procedure which is more correct. I already told you that I will take it up with my counterparts in the Speaker's Conference and after that Chief Minister will take up this matter with the appropriate authorities. And the Chief Minister has assured you that it is not a double expenditure.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the payment of the District Council, share in respect of takes on motor vehicles etc. as I have already said that this is not the opportune moment. He should have raised this point during the discussion on the Budget.

        Sir, the arrangement of the accounting of the fees etc. realised under the Indian Arms Act which is a Central Act, as earlier laid down by the Government of India provided that (i) the State authorities credit collection of fees etc. to the Consolidated Fund of India under the appropriate  major and minor heads of account and (ii) the Central Government makes payment to the State Government every quarter, certain amounts as charges for administration of the  Act on any agency basis. The Government of India intimated by their letter dated 23rd December, 1975 to the Finance Secretaries of all the State Governments and these collections will, in future, be credited to the relevant receipt head of account in the Consolidated Fund of the States concerned and retained by them. Subsequently, on 15th November, 1976, the Government of India further clarified the relevant head of account under the State Government to which the receipt under the Arms Act should be credited. This clarification was intimated by the State Finance Department to all the Administrative Departments and Heads of Departments Deputy Commissioners, S.D.Os' etc. on 8th December, 1976. The budget estimates for the current year had already been sent by the concerned departments by that time. 

        2. There are two receipt heads under the Arms Act and they are :-

        (i) "005-Police-C-Receipt under Arms Acts etc." Licence fees realised for issue of gun licences, renewal, etc. are to be credited to this head. The Inspector General of Police Controls his head.

        (ii) "065-Other Administrative Services-Administration of Justice (3) Other Receipts (e)-Receipts under Arms Act". This relates to cash receipts of Courts from fines imposed on breach of section of the Arms Act or from sales proceeds of arms, etc., confiscated by the courts order. This is controlled by the Law Department. In view of the nature of receipts, the amount under his head will be difficult to forecast.

        3. In view of the fact that the revised classification of receipts under the Arms Act was done recently and the clarification regarding the State head of Account was intimated only in November, 1976 by the Union Finance Ministry and by December, 1976 by the State Finance Department, estimates of receipts for the current year could not be furnished. However, the fees collected fro renewal of gun licences etc. by the District authorities are being credited by them into the treasury under the State account. According to the materials collected from the District authorities the total amount of this regard so far collected and credited during 1976-77 is over Rs.18,000 which is subject to verification of figures as maintained by the Accountant General Meghalaya. Instruction are being issued to the estimating authority that they should, in future, estimate the likely receipts under the relevant receipts heads so that the same may be reflected in the receipt budget. The estimate can be based on the actual collected during the year 1976-77 as certified by the Accountant General.

        It may be mentioned that the Appropriation Bill is not concerned with the receipts but only with the expenditure to be authorised by the State Legislature. However, the estimates for receipts will be relevant for ascertaining the total financial picture for the year.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- I would only like to know in all humility where is the money, under what head of account it is booked?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- I have already given the head of account.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- It does not appear under this head in this book, volume I, under receipt.

Mr. Speaker :- It is to be further clarified and checked by the Government.

        Now Chief Minister to move his motion for passing.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Meghalaya Appropriation (No.II) Bill 1977 be passed.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I put the question that the Meghalaya Appropriation (No.II) Bill, 1977 be passed.

(The motion was carried and the Bill was passed)


Adjournment

        The House stands adjourned till 9.30 a.m. on Tuesday, the 14th June, 1977.

D.S. KHONGDUP

Dated Shillong

Secretary,

The 13th June, 1977

Meghalaya Legislative Assembly.