Proceedings of the Budget Session of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly assembled at 9.30 A.M. on Wednesday, the 15th June, 1977 in the Assembly Chamber, Shillong with the hon. Speaker in the Chair.

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Present : Minister - 6, Minister of State - 4; Members - 42.

Mr. Speaker :- Now let us take up unstarred Question No.145. Any Supplementaries?

UNSTARRED QUESTIONS

(Replies to which were laid on the Table)
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Tourist Information Officer at Calcutta

Prof. M.N. Majaw asked :

145. Will the Minister in charge of Tourism be pleased to state -

(a) What facilities are provided to the Tourist Information Officer at the Meghalaya House, Calcutta, in the form of residential quarters, office staff, office furniture, publicity materials, etc.?
(b) If these have not been provided does the Government intend to expand the present office or shift it to more spacious quarters in the immediate future?
(c) How many tourists does this office have to deal with on average per moths?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in-charge of Tourism) replied :

        145.(a) - The office of the Tourist Officer at Calcutta has been housed in one of the rooms in the Meghalaya House. No residential quarter has been provided to the Tourist Officer. A house rent allowance at the rate of fifteen per cent of pay subject to a minimum of Rs.100 p.m. is provided in lieu of free accommodation. Except the Tourist Officer at present, no other posts have been sanctioned. The  Tourists Office has been equipped with furniture, furnishings and with sufficient publicity materials  materials for free distribution to tourists and visitors visiting  the Tourist Office at Calcutta.

        (b) - Does not arise in view of (a) above.

        (c) - The Tourist Office at Calcutta on an average handles between 150 to 200 tourists per month both domestic and foreign.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know the general practice adopted to handle both the domestic and foreign tourists?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want notice for that.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, whether the Government have provided accommodation for the Tourist Information Officer?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, this matter is under consideration of the Government.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Sir, may we know whether any furniture are provided for this Tourist Officer?

Mr. Speaker :- In  his office or in his residence?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- Sir, this furniture are meant for his office.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know whether the Government is aware that there are no furniture in office?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have given sufficient furniture for this office and other materials for free distribution of the tourists.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Sir, may we know whether the Government is aware that there is hardly any furniture in this office?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- No, Mr. Speaker Sir.

Shri W. Syiemiong :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, whether there are any publicity materials in the Tourists Office?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, Government is aware of this matter and it is now under consideration of the Government to well equip this department and in this connection we have consulted the experts and the Government will take up this matter as soon as we get the reports from those experts. Sir, one room in the ground floor of Meghalaya House, Calcutta has been allotted for opening the Tourist Office. The size of the room is 18' X 18'. We have exhibited four small size photographs pertaining to the scenic beauty spots of Meghalaya. One big size (121 cm. X 151 cm.) Road map of India is also displayed. We have  in stock four big size (40" X 24") Black and White photographs depicting the life and culture of the Meghalaya which are ready for dispatch to Meghalaya House, Calcutta. Due to smallness of the room the big size photograph cannot be displayed. However, the said photographs are being dispatched to Calcutta for the use of the Liaison Officer.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know whether the Government is aware of the fact that the foreign tourists are not supplied with these publicity materials.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- Sir, our Government have already taken up this matter.

Mr. Speaker :- Now Unstarred question No.146.

Mawryngkneng Health Centre.

Shri G. Mylliemngap asked :

146. Will the Minister in charge of Health be pleased to state ?

        (a) When was the last repair of the building at Mawryngkneng Health Centre done?

        (b) What was the amount spent?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in charge of Health) replied : 

        146. (a) and (b) - The building was taken over by Public Health Engineering from Public Work Department on 18th November 1976. Annual repair was taken up on 25th February 1977 and the work is still in progress. No amount was spent yet.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, what is the estimated amount?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Sir, the estimated amount is Rs.40,000.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, unstarred question No.146 (a) and (b). Sir, what does it mean that the buildings were taken oven by P.H.E from P.W.D.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Sir, it is the Government policy to avoid any unnecessary delay and this responsibility has been shifted to Public Health Engineering Department.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the work was started on 26th February, 1977 and no payment has yet been made. May we know from the Government from which budget the allocation of amount has been earmarked and from which year?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have also discussed this matter on the floor of this House and as a number of buildings in the rural areas have been lying unrepaired the Public Health Engineering Department will very soon take up this mater and it is not so important how much money we are going to allot.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, unstarred question No.146(a). May we know from the Government what is the meaning of taking over by Public Health Engineering from Public Works Department.

Mr. Speaker :- The Minister has already replied That now it is the Public Health Engineering Department that is responsible for the construction work for all the schemes in the rural areas. Now let us pass on to Unstarred Question No.147. 

Stock position of Medicine at Kalaichar Dispensary

Shri Samarendra Sangma asked :

147. Will the Minister in charge of Health and Medical be pleased to state - 

(a) Whether any officer of the Health Department has been deputed to enquire into the stock position of medicine at Kalaichar Dispensary, West Garo Hills?
(b) If so, on what date the enquiry was conducted and with what result?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in charge of Health) replied :

147.(a) - Yes. Enquiry was made by S.D.M. and H.O., Tura.
(b) - 26th April, 1976. He reported enough common medicines are available in stock for last 4-5 months. Instruction and guidance have been given by S.D.M and H.O. for proper maintenance of stock account.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, what are those common medicines?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Well, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not bring the list of medicines and as I am not a doctor, it is not possible on my part of remember the names of all those medicines. But Sir, from the very words, common medicines, it means S.G. tables, aspirin, drug tablets, etc. So by common medicines it means that medicines, which we used daily for disease like dysentery diarrhoea, etc.

Shri Brojendro Sangma :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding Unstarred Question No.147.(a) What for the enquiry was made by the Government and what is the position now?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Sir, it was found that the present in charge in keeping the stock was not so expert and he was given necessary instructions and guidance in order to enable him to keep proper account of the stock.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- Sir, Unstarred Question No.147 (a) What were the circumstances which led to the enquiry?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Sir, because of public complaints in general.

Shri Samarendra Sangma :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding question No.147(a) what is the present position of the medicines?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I require notice for that.

Mr. Speaker :- Now Unstarred Question No.148.

Patients at Ganesh Das Hospital

Prof. M.N. Majaw asked :

148. Will the Minister in charge of Health be pleased to state -

(a) What was the average daily number of patients at the Ganesh Das Hospital, Shillong during April, 1977?
(b) Whether it is a fact that several patients at that hospital have had to sleep along the corridors?
(c) If so, what steps have the Government taken to relieve the congestion in the hospital?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in charge Health and FW) replied :

148.(a)  Indoor patients - 345. Outdoor patients - 288
(b) - Yes.
(c) - A double storeyed building is under construction in the same compound.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- Sir, unstarred Question No.148(a). What is the capacity for indoor patients in the hospitals?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the present capacity is 230.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- Sir, Unstarred Question No.148(b). Whether the patients sleep in the floor or the private beds?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Sir, the present position in such that all the patients who come to Ganesh Das Hospital are mostly mothers having labour pain. So in such cases we will have to admit them in the hospital and when  there is no seat, the hospital authorities will have to ask those patients to sleep on the floor and benches.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Sir, regarding Unstarred Question No.149(a), what is the time allowed for completion of that building?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Sir, the building is already under construction and we may hope to complete it this year.

Shri Humphrey Hadem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, generally the Government always fix the time that such and such building will be completed within such and such time?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is a P.W.D. affair.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, Unstarred Question No.148(c) the construction of the double storeyed building is pending, may we know the reason why?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, this double storeyed building is almost completed and we are waiting for the opening for this building

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- How is it that the Minister is not aware when the building will be completed?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on this matter, I will enquire from the P.W.D.

Mr. Speaker :- I always told that the Minister should not shift the responsibility to the other departments not under him. He should collect the information form the Department concerned. 

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I require notice for that.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know whether free diet is provided to these 345 indoor patients?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Yes, Sir.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the capacity of the hospital is 230 where as the indoor patients are 345. How do the hospital authorities meet the requirements of the excess patients?

Mr. Speaker :- I think the Minister has already replied that the doctors cannot ask the expectant mothers that you should deliver your baby on such and such date. So this is the practical difficulty. So somehow or other they have to solve the problem.

Prof. A. Warjri :- (c) What is the number of patients expected to be housed in that new building? 

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- This building is quite big. Let it be completed first and then we will determine as to how many patients we can accommodate.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- Is the Government aware that the work which is going on has been stopped.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Yes, Sir, for want of funds.

Service Rules for the staff of the Pinewood Hotel

Prof. M.N. Majaw asked :

149. Will the Minister in charge of Tourism be pleased to state -

(a) Whether the Government has laid down any service rules for the staff of the Pine wood Hotel?
(b) If not, why?
(c) Whether there are any labour laws or rules for the services protection of the staff of the hotel?
(d) If not, why?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in charge of Tourism) replied :

        149 (a) - For the management of the Pine wood Hotel Government have constituted a Board of Management. The Board has formulated the service rules for the staff of the hotel.

        (b) - Does not arise in view of reply to (a) above.

        (c) - The services of the staff of the hotel are governed by the provisions laid down in the service rules. They can also seek protection in respect of the conditions of work under the Industrial Disputes Act, 1947 and the rules made thereunder. They are also covered by the Trade Union Act, 1926 under which they can form a trade union.

        (d) - Does not arise in view to reply to (c) above.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- (a) Were the Service Rules approved by the Government?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- These rules  were framed as  far back as 1968. I am not sure, I think the rules must have been approved. Anyhow, I require notice.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- The answer to (a) is that the Government has constituted a Board of Management. My question was whether the service rules formulated by the Board of Management constituted by the Government of Meghalaya have been accepted by the Government?

Mr. Speaker :- The Minister said that he require notice.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- (a), Whether the Government is aware of the fact that there is not yet a formal letter of taking over the hotel from the Government of Meghalaya by Board of Management?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- The Government is not aware.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- (c) Whether the staff are granted bonus by the Board of Management?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- I require notice for that question also.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- (a) Whether the Board of Management is run by the Corporation or the Government Department?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Tourism) :- We have considered forming a Corporation and that it will be part of the Government. 

Shri P.R. Kyndiah : Whether it is a Corporation or a Government Department?

Mr. Speaker : Whether the Department has direct control ever the Board of Management or whether it is an autonomous body?

Shri W. A Sangma (Chief Minister) : Here is a very peculiar situation where the Board of Management has been constituted by the Government for one Government Hotel. Therefore we have decided to form a Corporation and now when the assets and liabilities of the hotel are worked out, it will be handed over to the Corporation : 

Lower Cherra Water Supply Scheme

Shri S.P. Swer asked : 

150. Will the Minister-in-charge of P.H.E be pleased to state -

(a)  Whether the Lower Cherra Water Supply Scheme has been fully implemented?

(b) The name of the contractor for the scheme?

(c) The date of work order given to the contractor?

(d) The time allowed for completion as originally scheduled and as extended from time to time. 

(e) The reasons for the delay in completing and granting extension of time for completion?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister- in- charge of P.H.E. ) replied :

150. (a)- No.     

        (b)- Shri Telsingh Nongrum. 

        (c)- 18th December 1973.  

        (d) & (e)- Forty -five days. The contractor was persuaded to complete the work upto 1976and when it was found that he is negligent and insincere the work was cancelled an re-allotted.

Shri H. Hadem : (d) & (e). To whom reallotted?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister- in- charge of P.H.E. ) : I could not follow the question. 

Mr. Speaker : To whom the work was reallotted. 

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister- in- charge of P.H.E. ) : To one Shri A. Korshon Lyngrah.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah : When was the work reallotted?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister- in- charge of P.H.E. ) : Very recently, Sir. 

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh : When it is expected to complete the works under the new contractor?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister- in- charge of P.H.E. ) : Very soon, Sir. 

Shri G. Mylliemngap : When was he found negligent and insincere?

Mr. Speaker : When was the previous contractor found to be insincere?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister- in- charge of P.H.E. ) : I will  tell the exact position. The work of the Lower Cherra Water  Supply scheme was allotted to a local contactor, Sri Telsingh Nongrum and requisite materials were issued to him. After doing some work the contractor failed to show sufficient interest in the work nor did he come forward to surrender the work. Several correspondences were made with him requesting him to expedite the progress of the work but no action was taken by him. The work has since been cancelled and reallotted to another contractor Shri A. Korshon Lyngrah recently for the remaining portion. The work could not be cancelled earlier, as Government stores of substantial quantity were lying with him. Some materials have since been taken back from him before cancellation and steps are being taken to recover the balance materials. 

Shri G. Mylliemngap : What penalty has been imposed on the previous contractor. 

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister- in- charge of P.H.E. ) : The whole thing is i the process and it may take some time to finalise the matter. 

Shri H. Hadem : What is the item specified for the new contractor, Shri Lyngrah ?

Mr. Speaker : To that question, the Minister has replied that the work will be completed very soon. 

Shri H. Hadem : Because, when the work was reallotted to another contractor, specified time must have been fixed for completion?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister- in- charge of P.H.E. ) : Within 30 days he should complete. 

Shri K.M. Roy Marbaniang : On what terms the agreement was made?

Mr. Speaker : I think being an ex-contractor you ought to know it better. 

Shri G. Mylliemngap : Was any payment made to the previous contractor?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister- in- charge of P.H.E. ) : No, Sir. 

Engineers under the M.S.E.B.

Shri S. P.  Swer asked : 

151. Will the Minister- in- charge of Electricity and Power be pleased to state-

(a) Whether the Engineers under the M.S.E.B. on deputation from the A.S.E.B. belong to the same cadre with those of the A.S.E.B.?
(b) If so, whether the Chief Engineer or any engineer presently in the M.S.E.B. on deputation from the A.S.E.B. may be reverted to the A.S.E.B. when they are found unsuitable, inefficient or when their services are considered no longer necessary?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State in-charge of Power) replied.

151. (a)- The engineers of M.S.E.B. and A.S.E.B. belong to the same cadre at present. 

        (b)- Interchange of engineers between M.S.E.B. and A.S.E.B. is possible by mutual consultation and agreement between the two organisations. 

Shri P.R. Kyndiah : (a) Whether the Government is considering to bifurcate the cadre of the M.S.E.B ?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State, Power) : Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. 

Shri P.R. Kyndiah : When did the matter come up for consideration of the Government?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State, Power) : I cannot say the exact date, so I want notice. 

Revenue receipt of the M.S.E.B. 

Shri S.P. Swer asked : 

152.  Will the Minister-in-charge of Power etc., be pleased to state- 

(a) The total revenue receipt of M.S.E.B. during the financial year 1975-76?

(b) The total establishment charges of the M.S.E.B. during the year1975-76?

(c) The percentage of establishment charges to the revenue receipt of M.S.E.B. during the year 1975-76?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State, Power) replied : 

152. (a)- According to provisional figures, actual amount received was Rs. 2,00,12,706.38. 

        (b)- Rs. 78,17,126.13

         (c)- 39.06 per cent. 

Shri P.R. Kyndiah : Whether the Government is considering to reduce the percentage of the establishment charges?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State, Power) : (a) What is the break-up of the revenue received from Assam during this year, from the A.S.E.B.?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State, Power) : During 1975-76 sale of electricity to Assam i.e. to A.S.E.B. was Rs. 2,27,28,516.40.

Rank and precedence of the State

Shri W. Syiemiong asked :

153. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state-

(a) Whether the order of rank and precedence of the State has since been prepared?

(b) If so, whether members of the District Council also find place in the order?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

153.(a) - The warrant of precedence is in its final stage of preparation.    

        (b) - As the warrant of precedence has not been finalised, the matter is still under consideration.

Shri W. Syiemiong :- It is not a fact that preparation of Warrant of Precedence was started since 1974?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- It is a fact that it is almost in the final stage because whatever we do must conform to the Warrant of Precedence of the Government of India. Therefore the matter had been delayed but I can assure the hon. Member through you, Sir, that this matter will be finalised soon.

Re-employment of retired personnel

Shri P.G. Momin asked :

154. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

(a) What is the present number of re-employed personnel, both technical and non-technical under the Government of Meghalaya?

(b) Whether any policy has been adopted by the State Government to stop such re-employment in view of the present un-employment problem prevailing in the State?

(c) What are the basic criteria adopted in determining eligibility of re-employment of a person on contract basis who has voluntarily retired from Government service?

(d) Whether Government are aware of the fact that re-employment of such retired personnel on contract basis hampers the promotions of other regular employees?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

154. (a) - Thirty nine.

        (b) - Re-employment is made only in very special cases when suitable personnel still in service are not available.

        (c) - Normally a person going on voluntary retirement is not reemployment. In exceptional cases when no other suitable serving personnel is available he made be re-employed. 

        (d) - As re-employment is made only when suitable regular employees are not available, it does not affect the promotion of regular employees.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- 154 (c) & (d). Whether the Government is aware that the reemployment of A.I. of Schools, Jaintia Hills has affected the suitable serving personnel below? 

Mr. Speaker :- Here the question is about an officer who went on voluntary retirement.

Prof. A. Warjri :- What is the period fixed for this reemployment?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Well it differs from person to person.

Shri W. Syiemiong :- Out of these 39, how may are males and how many are females? 

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- 4 females and the rest are males. 

Shri P.R. Kyndiah : How many technical personnel have been reemployed then?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : 15 technical. 

Shri G. Mylliemngap : Mr. Speaker, Sir, what is the type of post which is classified as technical?

Mr. Speaker : That requires a very long definition.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :  So I can ask whether the post of A. I of Schools is regarded as technical?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) : No, Sir. 

Mr. Speaker :- A.I. of Schools cannot be technical.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- What are the special consideration for giving reemployment to the A.I. of Schools if he is not technical?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- I think that is a new question.

Mr. Speaker :- In fact I have already explained that this relates to those persons who went top voluntary retirement. 

Drinking Water Supply at Wah-U-tim

Shri S.P. Swer asked :

155. Will the Minister in charge of Industries be played to state -

(a) Whether it is a fact that all the sources of the perennial streams which used to supply the villagers of Wah-Utim with water for drinking and domestic and purposes have been polluted by working of the limestone quarries of the Mawmluh Cherra-Cements Limited?

(b) Whether it is a fact that the people of Wah-U-tim filed petitions requesting the Company to supply drinking water by extending the existing water work of the Company to the said village? 

(c) Whether the Company is prepared to accede to the request of Wah-Utim village?

(d) If not, the reasons thereof?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister of Industries) replied : 

155. (a) - No.

        (b) - Yes.

        (c) and (d) - As the Company's does not affect the sources of drinking water for the villages this is not considered necessary.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, when was the analysis of the drinking water done? 

Shri Maham Singh (Minister of Industries) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the villagers get the water from a completely separate source, that is, a spring where there is no contamination of the water by the works of the factory.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may question is : when was the analysis conducted for this?

Mr. Speaker :- The answer here is that there is no pollution but how did the Government prove it. It must be through the process of testing, that it is the spirit of you question.

Shri Maham Singh (Minister of Industries) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question is whether the water has been polluted by the workings of limestone of limestone of the Cherra-Mawmluh Cements Ltd. There is no pollution because the water from these quarries does not at all flow to the drinking water source of the villagers.

Mr. Speaker :- In other words there is no need for conducting any testing as the people of the village had been using water by generations.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, whether it is a fact that the limestone quarries of the Mawmluh-Cherra Cements Limited are just above the Wah Utim village?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister of Industries) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, an enquiry had already been made. The spring is on the south and southwest of the ridge and the water from the quarries does not flow southwest of the and the water from the quarries does not flow to this part of the village. The spring water is in a separate place where the water from the quarries does not flow at all.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Is is not a fact that Wah Utim village is situated just nearby the stream passing through the limestone quarries of the factory site?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister of Industries) :- The village is situated near the limestone quarries but not very close and the spring water is situated at a higher level on the other side of the hillock.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, my question to (a) is whether a complaint was received by the authorities represented by the villagers of Wah U-tim regarding pollution of drinking water?

Mr. Speaker :- The answer is in (b)

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- My question is regarding complaint about pollution.

Shri Maham Singh (Minister of Industries) :- Yes, there was a petition by the villagers and it is on their petition, Sir, that enquiry was ordered.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- When, Sir?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister of Industries) :- The petition was received on 1st April, 1975.

Small Farmer's Development Agency

Prof. M.N. Majaw asked :

156. Will the Minister in charge of Agriculture be pleased to state -

(a) Whether the State Government has sought the permission of the Central Government for the continuation of the Rural Works Programme under the Small Farmers' Development Agency in the State?

(b) If not, how does the State Government intend to complete the unfinished roads undertaken by the Small Farmers' Development Agency in the State?

(c) How many has been spent so far on the Rural Works Programme in the State during the last five years?

(d) How much has been spent on unfinished roads in the State under the Rural Works Programme upto 31st March 1977?

Shri E. Bareh (Minister Agriculture) replied :

156. (a) - Not yet; the matter is under consideration.

        (b) - Does not arise.

        (c) - Rs.49,26,237.04.

        (d) - Rs.11,79,623.50/

Minor and major irrigation Projects

Shri S.N. Koch asked :

157. Will the Minister in charge of Agriculture be pleased to state -

(a) The number of minor and major irrigation projects taken up in Garo Hills since 1972 and what are those minor and major irrigation projects?

(b) What are the villages and localities benefitted by these projects?

(c) The total acreage covered by the said projects?

(d) Whether the areas benefitted are covered by periodic patta, annual patta or are khas land or both?

Shri E. Bareh (Minister in charge of Agriculture) replied :

157 (a) and (b) - The Agriculture, Department takes up only minor irrigation projects. The list of the projects with villages and localities benefitted and acreage is placed on the Table of the House.

        (c) - 11,696.5. Ha

        (d) - Detailed information on each is awaited from District Council

National Permit for Transport

Shri H.E. Pohshna asked :

158. Will the Minister in charge of Transport be pleased to state - 

(a) Whether it is a fact that the National Permits have been granted by the State Transport Authority?

(b) If so, how many permits have been granted so far?

(c) Will the Government be pleased to lay on the table the names and permanent address of the permits holders?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) replied :

158. (a) - Yes.

        (b) - 50 (fifty) permits.

        (c) - A statement is placed on the Table of the House.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- (a) On what basis the National Permits were given?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the applicant were interviewed by the members of the State Transport Authority.

Mr. Speaker :- That is the method by which you select the people but the question is what was the basis on which these National Permits were given?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- According to the Government of India's allotment, the State of Meghalaya was given 50 permits and accordingly, applications were invited.

Mr. Speaker :- Are you going to give me if I have no bank account?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- The selection was made on the basis that the applicant should possess a vehicle. If he does not posses a vehicles, at least he should produce a guarantee from the bank that the bank will finance him.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Any other criteria?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- I require notice for that.

Trade Adviser in charge of Meghalaya House at Calcutta.

Prof. M.N. Majaw asked :

159. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

(a) Whether the Trade Adviser in charge of the Meghalaya House at Calcutta is by rule entitled to free accommodation at that house?

(b) Whether it is a fact that the Trade Adviser is living on the 2nd Floor of the V.I.Ps building of the Meghalaya House in Calcutta?

(c) If so -

(i) How many rooms are thee on the 2nd floor of this V.I.Ps building?
(ii) How many attached bathrooms are there?
(iii) What is the total area of the floor space on the 2nd floor?
(iv) How many of the rooms are air-conditioned?
(v) How many rooms does the Trade Adviser and his family occupy?
(vi)  What rent would this 2nd floor flat fetch on an average in Calcutta?

(d) Whether it is a fact that the present Trade Adviser had been drawing House Allowances while staying at the Meghalaya House, Calcutta?

(i) How much had he been drawing per month?
(ii) For how many months had he been drawing such allowance?
(iii) What steps have the Government taken to recover this allowance?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister)  replied :

159. (a) - There is no rule as such. He has allowed rent free accommodation as a special case.

        (b) - Yes.

        (c) -

(i) 8 (eight) rooms.
(ii) Two.
(iii) 299.10 Sq.m.
(iv) None at present.
(v) 6 (six) rooms
(vi)  No assessment of rent has yet been made.

        (d) - Yes.

        (e) -

(i) Rupees 200 per month.
(ii) 14 months from 1st January 1975 to 31st March 1976.
(iii) The Accountant General, Meghalaya was asked to recover the over-drawn amounts at Rs.100 per month with effect from 1st April 1976.

Shri H. Hadem :- (a). Is there any time limit fixed for this free accommodation?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, this question has come up a number of times.

Mr. Speaker :- I think this question has been repeated time and again. I do not think I will allow any more supplementary.

Meghalaya Transport Buses

Shri C.A. Sangma asked :

160. Will the Minister in charge of Transport be pleased to state -

(a) The number of State Transport buses  in the State both in running condition and out of service?

(b) The number of buses allotted to each district?

(c) The number of buses plying on the Shillong-Gauhati route daily?

(d) Whether the Government has appointed and posted Assistant Superintendent of Transport at Williamnagar, Baghmara, Nangalbibra and Dainadubi?

(e) If so, whether they are staying in their respective headquarters?

(f) Whether the Government has constructed the staff quarters, booking offices, bus parking places, etc, at Williamnagar, Baghmara, Nangalbibra and Dainadubi?

(g) If so, when?    

(h) If not when are those expected to be constructed?

(i) Whether Government propose to introduce State Transport bus service from Shillong to Williamnagar of public convenience?

(j) Whether the Government propose to re-introduce State Transport bus service daily from Tura to Williamnagar?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) replied :

160. (a) - Ninety-nine buses of which 59 are off the road.

        (b) - There is no specific allotment of buses to districts.    

        (c) - Fifteen.    

        (d) - No.

        (e) - Does not arise in view of (d) above.

        (f) - No, except two temporary sheds at Nangalbibra.

        (g) and (h) - The need for construction of staff quarter and other buildings and Nangalbibra, Dainadubi, Baghmara and Williamnagar is being examined.

        (i) - This is under consideration.

        (j) - There is a daily bus service between Tura and Williamnagar up to Rongjeng.

Shri W. Syiemiong : (a) May we know on what date the statistic is taken?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- The figures given are upto date.

Outstanding amount to be paid by the Meghalaya Transport Corporation

Shri P.R. Kyndiah asked :

        161. Will the Minister in charge of Transport be pleased to State the outstanding amount of the bills due to by paid by the Meghalaya Transport Corporation to different parties on account of purchase of - 

(i) Spares parts for vehicles,
(ii) Purchase of vehicles,
(iii) Cost of bus body building construction;
(iv) Vehicle Taxes ?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) replied :

161.-(i)

Rupees 6,00,140.39 (for supplied obtained up to 30th November, 1976)

(ii)

Nil

(iii)

Nil

(iv)

Rupees 1,16,998.00

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- (iv) When was this amount of vehicle taxes paid?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- After we received the bills from the D.T.O's office.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- How does the M.T.C. know the amount?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- I require notice.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- On what basis the spare parts are being purchased?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, when the vehicle breaks down, if there are no spare parts it cannot run. The spare parts are always identified on the strength of the recommendation of the Investigating Officer.

Shri G. Mylliemngap :- Are there any approved dealers of the spare parts?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir,

Shri W. Syiemiong :- May we know the names?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- M/s Lohia Automobiles, Sarma Automobiles, Pawan Automobile, Singhania Automobile, Bharat Automobile and Hind Trades etc.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- (1) What are the reasons for the long delay in clearing those bills?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- The reason is due to the fact that we do not have the Chief Accounts Officer. Therefore, we could not scrutinise the bills.

Mr. Speaker :- That means the Corporation does not have any Accounts Officer at all.

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- We have an Account Officer, but this being a huge amount, it is required to be scrutinised by the Chief Accounts Officer.

Non-payment of bills by the Shillong Hydro Electric Company

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh asked :

162. Will the Minister in charge of Power be pleased to state -

(a) Whether it is a fact that the constant failure of power supply in Shillong was a sequel to the non-payment of bills by the Shillong Hydro Electric Company to the M.S.E.B. authorities?    

(b) If the answer to (a) above be in the affirmative, what amount of arrear is outstanding against the Shillong Hydro Electric Company as on 31st March 1977?

(c) Whether the M.S.E.B. authorities continue to supply electricity to consumers elsewhere in the State even on non-payment of huge arrear bills?

(d) What is the rate per unit of electricity charged by the M.S.E.B. to the Shillong Hydro Electric Company as on 31st March 1977 (category-wise)?

(e) The rate charged by the Shillong Hydro Electric Company to the consumers in Shillong (category-wise)?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State in-charge of Power) replied :

162. (a) - No.

        (b) - Does not arise.

        (c) - No.    

        (d) - The average rate is about 20 paise per unit.

        (e) - A Statement is laid on the Table of the House.

Shri H. Hadem :- (a). Is there any outstanding Bill?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) :- Yes, Sir.

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh :- If the answer to the supplementary question is 'yes'. then the answer to question 162(c) is not correct, because question (c) is like this - 'Whether the M.S.E.B. authorities continue to supply electricity to consumers elsewhere in the State even on non-payment of huge arrear bills?' - The answer is 'no. But the reply to the question asked by Mr. Hadem is 'yes'. Therefore, the answer to question (c) is not correct.

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) :- Yes, Sir. According to the Indian Electricity Act, the M.S.E.B. can discontinue supplying power to consumers. But special reasons have arisen that dis-continuance of supplying power to Shillong Hydro Electric Co., might cause inconvenience to the consumers and some essential services as use of domestic power is rising in Shillong town. Having realised all these things, special consideration is being made for discontinuance to supply Power to Hydro Electric Company.

Prof. A. Warjri :- What is the amount outstanding as on 31st March, 1976?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) :- Rs.43,18,169.94P

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Is this rate below or above the cost of introduction because the rate of electricity is 20 Paise per unit?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) :- Naturally, it should be above.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- We want a clear reply. Is it above or below the cost of production?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) :- It is above the power supply in Shillong?

Shri P. R. Kyndiah :- What are the causes for constant failure of power supply in Shillong?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) :- Due to some loss in the management and maintenance and there are other reasons also. That has to be given by them. But we are trying to realise the amount at the earliest possible from the Shillong Hydro Electric Company and at the same time, a huge amount has been accumulated since the time of the then Assam State Electricity Board.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, what action has the Government taken to realise these outstanding bills from the Hydro Electric Company?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government is considering to take appropriate action in due course.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Whether the Government is aware of the fact that the M.S.E.B. supplies electricity to the rural areas of the rate of 41 Paise per unit?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) :- Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. the rates for supply of electricity have been fixed by the Board and this is being followed.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of that fact is the Government considering the rate exorbitant? Even 20 Paise is above the cost of production?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State for Power) :- I cannot say at the moment.

Mr. Speaker :- Let us pass on to unstarred question No.163.

Non-issue of ticket of wayside passengers travelling by State Transport Buses.

Shri J.M. Syiem asked :

163. Will the Minister in charge of Transport pleased to state when the reports regarding non-issue of tickets to a number of wayside passengers travelling by State Transport buses have come to the knowledge of the Government?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) replied :

        163. - Yes.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- May we know, Sir, what are the stops to do away with the practice of non-issue of tickets to way-side passengers?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is a Vigilance Squad which moves around different routes and tries to detect the mal-practices and various steps have also been taken against the persons who violate the rules.

Shri W. Syiemiong :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, how many persons are there in the Vigilance Squad?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- Well, we have a Central Vigilance Squad which consists of one Assistant Superintendent and three Inspectors.

Shri Jormanik Syiem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, what action has been taken against those people found guilty of non-issue of tickets?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, once they are caught that they did not issue tickets, the Corporation takes steps and there are some who were suspended and there are some whose cases are still pending in the court.

Shri Dlosingh Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, how many cases have been detected during  the M.S.R.T.C. time?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- During the Corporation period 14 cases were detected.

Prof. Alexander Warjri :- Who checks the Vigilance Squad?

Mr. Speaker :- I think that has become a separate question.

Government Notice No.TRG/ITI/SHI-1(2)115, dated 11th November, 1976.

Prof. M.N. Majaw asked :

        164. Will the Minister in charge of Labour be pleased to refer to a notice No.TRG/ITI/SHI/1(2)/115, dated 11th November, 1976, issued by the Principal, Industrial Training Institute, Shillong and state -

        (a) Whether in the selection Serial Nos.1,5,7,8,9,11,12, and 16 for training as Wiremen and Serial Nos.7 and 9 for the training of Welders, Government Order No.POL.97/74/47, dated 22nd December, 1976 was fully implemented?

        (b) If not, on what basis were these persons selected?

Shri U. Kharbuli (Minister of State for Labour) replied :

        164. (a) - No

        The Government Order was circulated on 22nd December, 1976. The admission test was held on 18th September, 1976.

        Serial Nos.1,5,8,9 and 16 for Wiremen Trade and

        Serial Nos.7 and 9 for Welder Trade were selected and admitted.

        Candidates at Serial No.7,11,12 did not join.

        (b) - The admission test held on 18th September, 1976 both written and interview was conducted by the District Local Committee with Deputy Commissioner as the Chairman constituted by the Government. The selection was made much before the Government Order referred to was circulated.

Tourist Complex at Barapani

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh asked :

165. Will the Minister in charge of Tourism be pleased to state -

(a) What are the steps so far taken by Government for the establishment of the Tourism Complex at Barapani lake side?

(b) Whether it is a fact the Government had already paid a huge sum of money for a plot of land for the said Tourist Complex at Barapani some time in the year 1970-71?

(c) Whether it is a fact that the Government paid about 63 (sixty) times more than the amount paid by the then A.S.E.B. to the local public at Barapani for the same plot of land?

(d) How much money has been spent for the establishment of the Tourist Complex at Barapani from 1970 to March, 1977 (Year-wise and item-wise)?

(e) When is the Tourist Complex at Barapani expected to be completed as per master plan of the Government?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in charge of Tourism) replied :

165. (a) - Steps are being taken to finalise the taking over of a suitable land at Umiam Lake side for development into a tourist complex.

        (b) - An amount of Rs.3.00 lakhs was paid as advance payment during the year 1970-71 to the erstwhile A.S.E.B.. The Government intends to purchase between 300-400 acres of land for tourist complex  there.

        (c) - No.

        (d) - Nothing has been spent for establishment of a tourist complex at Barapani during the year 1975-76. One of the buildings of the M.S.E.B. was taken over for establishment a kind of a motel for the convenience of the tourists add visitors. An amount of Rs.43,000 had been spent for renovation of the building including purchase of furniture and furnishing. The modle has been thrown open for the last one year.

        (e) - The Government desire to complete the complex as early as possible

Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah :- 165(d) the answer here is 'for establishing a kind of a motel'. What is the meaning 'of a kind of motel here?

Mr. Speaker :- I think the Minister must realise that a motel is understood in a number of ways. In the U.S.A. it is understood in one sense, in Switzerland, it is understood in another sense. So when the word here is 'a kind of motel', what kind of motel do you mean?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in charge of Tourism) :- Meghalaya kind (laughter)

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- 165 (b). What happens to this advance of Rs.3 lakhs paid tot he erstwhile A.S.E.B.?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in charge of Tourism) :- Correspondence are going on. This amount of Rs.3 lakhs was already paid in the form of advance payment to the A.S.E.B., but now the Department requires about 300 to 400 acres of land which has not been formally demarcated and we have go the land in due course.

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- (d), Was it more than the amount paid to the local public at Barapani?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in charge of Tourism) :- I require notice.

Mr. Speaker :- 166?

Primary Health Centre at Zigzak

Shri Samarendra Sangma asked :

166. Will the Minister in charge of Health and Medical be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether the buildings of the Primary Health Centre at Zigzak have already been handed over to the Health Department?

        (b) If now, the reasons thereof?

        (c) Whether the necessary/sanction for the centre has already been accorded?

        (d) When will it be given?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in charge of Health) replied :

166. (a) - No.

        (b) - As construction work has not been completed.

        (c) and (d) - This is being processed.

Shri Samarendra Sangma :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know when will the buildings be completed?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- I do not know exactly, but then the Executive Engineer P.W.D.

Mr. Speaker :- But as Minister in charge of Health, when do you expect to be able to complete the building?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- Soon, Sir.

Mr. Speaker :- 167?

State Dispensary at Cherrapunjee

Shri S.P. Swer asked :

167. Will the Minister in charge of Health be pleased to state -

(a) Whether it is a fact that Government has proposed to abolish the State Dispensary at Cherrapunjee?

(b) If so, whether the Government is aware of the fact that there has been a constant public demand for a State Dispensary at Cherra Bazar area?

(c) Whether the Government propose to shift the existing State Dispensary to the Cherra Bazar area for the larger interest of the Public?

(d) If now, the reason thereof?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in-charge of  Health) replied

176 (a) - Not yet.

        (b), (c) and (d) - A petition to shift the existing Dispensary to the Cherra Bazar area has not been received and is under examination.

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- (a) Sir, the reply here in - 'not yet'. So whether Government contemplates to abolish the Dispensary or not?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- The case is like this, Mr. Speaker, Sir,. The Cherra people have made a representation to shift it to some other places.

Mr. Speaker :- But the question was whether the Government proposed to abolish it, your reply was - 'Not yet'. your answer should have been - 'No'.

Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah :- When was the petition received?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- The petition was received in May this year.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Do I take it that the reply to question No.167. (a) is 'No'?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister, Health) :- It should have been 'No'. I regret that it was wrongly given.

Primary Health Centre, Resubelpara

Shri P.G. Momin asked :

168. Will the Minister-in-charge of Health be pleased to state-

(a) Whether the Government is aware of the demand of the public of Resubelpara Garo Hills, for immediate extension of the existing hospital buildings of the Primary Health Centre, Resubelpara, Garo Hills?

(b) Whether the present bed strength in the hospital of the Primary Health Centre, Resubelpara Garo Hills?

(c) Whether an X-Ray Plant has been provided to this hospital?

(d) Whether it is a fact that supply of essential and common medicine to the Primary Health Centre, Resubelpara, Garo Hills is quite inadequate?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in charge of  Health) replied :

168 (a). - No.

        (b) - 30 (thirty)

        (c) - Yes.

        (d) - We are not aware.

Extension of Private wards and Staff quarters in Civil Hospital Shillong.

Shri K.M. Roy Marbaniang  asked :

        169. Will the Minister-in-charge of Health be pleased to state the reason why the extension work of the private wards and construction of more quarters for the doctors and nurses in the Civil Hospital at Shillong have not yet been taken up?

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in charge of  Health) replied :

        169. - Due to capacity of fund.

Prof. Alexander Warjri :- What are the reasons for non-taking over of the Decca Cottage?

Mr. Speaker :- Which Cottage?

Prof. Alexander Warjri :- The Cottage occupied by Mawsynram P.W.D. Division.

Shri S.K. Marak (Minister in charge of  Health) :- That is a new question.

Mr. Speaker :- That relates to some other matter.

Staff of the Meghalaya House, Calcutta.

Shri Samarendra Sangma asked :

170. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

(a) The names of all the Members of the staff with their designation with the date of their appointment in the Meghalaya House Calcutta?

(b) Whether there is proper distribution of works among the staff or the Meghalaya House, Calcutta?

(c) If so, in what manner have the works been distributed?

(d) The name and particulars of the officer who is in charge of the Meghalaya House, Calcutta?

(e) Whether the officer has to submit any kind of factual report to the Government?

(f) If so, to whom is he to submit such report?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

170. (a) - A statement is placed on the Table of the House.

        (b) - Yes.

        (c) - Office orders were passed by the Trade Adviser for distribution of work from time to time.

(d)

(i) Shri M.N. Kar, a member of the Assam Civil Service who was absorbed in the Meghalaya in the Meghalaya Civil Service. Shri Kar is being replaced by Shri P.C. Chakravarty, M.C.S., who is taking over soon.
(ii) Shri S.L. Khyriem, Tourist Officer, Government of Meghalaya, who is functioning as Liaison Officer of the Meghalaya House, Calcutta, with effect from 2nd June 1977.

        (e) - Yes. The officer has to submit the following reports tot he Government, viz. -

        1. Monthly expenditure a statement.

        2. Monthly accommodations and seat-rent statement.

        (f) Government in the  General Administration Department.

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- 170 (d) Whether the officer in charge, Shri M.N. Kar has moved or not?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- He is still there, but he is going to leave soon.

Mr. Speaker :- I think this question has come up many time and so there is no scope for supplementary now since a full discussion on this particular issue has been raised.

Accommodation of M.L.As, M.Ps, in the Meghalaya Houses in Calcutta and New Delhi

Shri Dlosingh Lyngdoh asked :

171. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

(a) Whether it is a fact that the order of precedence of the M.L.As and M.Ps of the State is much lower than the Junior officers in the matter of accommodation in the Meghalaya Houses in Calcutta and Delhi?

(b) Whether it is a fact that a separate protocol or Warrant of Precedence has been adopted by the authorities for accommodation in the Meghalaya Houses in Calcutta and Delhi?

(c) Who are responsible for the framing of the existing rules for accommodation in the said Houses?

(d) What are names and status of the officers directly responsible for the day-to-day management and control of the Meghalaya Houses in Calcutta and Delhi?

(e) Whether it is a fact that a certain Member of Parliament from Meghalaya was not given even the least facility in the Meghalaya House at Calcutta some time in the month of March, 1977? 

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

171. (a) - The order of priority of allotment of accommodation has been revised giving them place in the list of officers to occupy Meghalaya Houses according to the respective ranks, i.e., below the Deputy Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries and above all the State Government officers.

        (b) - The Warrant of Precedence for ceremonial occasions has nothing to do with the day to day business of the Government. The priority of allotment is fixed under other norms.

        (c) - The Government itself.

        (d) - 1. Shri M.N. Kar, M.C.S., Trade Adviser and Director of Movements, Calcutta has been placed in charge of the Meghalaya House, Calcutta. He is being replaced soon by another Officer, Shri P.C. Chakravorty, M.C.S., as Trade Adviser and Director of Movements, Meghalaya House, Calcutta.

        Shri S.L. Khyriem, Tourist Officer, Calcutta was also appointed recently as Liaison officer to look after the accommodation arrangements in the Guest House and the Staff in Meghalaya House, Calcutta.

        2. Shri S.K. Sen Gupta, B.E., is in-charge of the Meghalaya House, New Delhi under the overall control and supervision of the Liaison Commissioner, Shri R. Natarajan, I.A.S.

        (e) - Government is not aware of this nor has the said M.P. brought it to the Government's notice.

Transport of goods through the Trade Adviser at Calcutta

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh asked :

172. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

(a) The quantum of goods purchased or dispatched from Calcutta to Meghalaya through the Trade Adviser at Calcutta during 1976-77?

(b) The Department involved in making payment for transport of such goods and also the names of carrier firms?

(c) The amount incurred for the transport of the above goods?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

172. (a) to (c) - A statement is placed on the Table of the House.

Taxi Fares within Shillong

Prof. M.N. Majaw asked :

173. Will the Minister in charge of Transport be pleased to state -

(a) Whether any fixed rates have been laid down by the Department for taxi fares within Shillong?

(b) Whether the Department has allowed taxis to ply in Shillong without taxi meters?

(c) If so, (i) Whether Government has devised or imposed any means for checking and regulating the actual taxi fares collected from commuters in the city?

        (ii) Whether Government would re-examine the feasibility of re-introducing taxi meters in Shillong?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) replied :

173. (a) - Yes.

        (b) - Yes.

        (c) - (i) Yes.

        (ii) The Government may consider the feasibility of reintroducing taxi meters in Shillong.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- 173 (c). How does the Government propose to check on the collection of taxi fares?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- We have Enforcement Officers. They move around and whenever there are some complaints they take action.

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- 173 (b). May we know the reason why taxis are plying without meters?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- There was a general complaint by the operators not only that the meters break down very often but also because we do not have a factory to repair them.

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- May we know whether all the taxis are allowed to ply without meters?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) : They are allowed to ply without meters?

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- Is it admissible?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- It is allowed.

Introduction of Bus service from Shillong to Bhoilymbong -via - Umroi

Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh asked :

174. Will the Minister in charge of Transport be pleased to state -

(a) Whether Government are aware that the Barapani-Bhoilymbong road in the East Khasi Hill District serves an area comprising considerable of a large population with well developed and rich agricultural lands?

(b) If so, whether Government propose to introduce State Transport bus service from Shillong to Bhoilymbong-via-Umroi in the near future?

(c) Whether it is a fact that the Transport authorities asked for the fitness certificate of the Barapani-Bhoilymbong road from the Executive Engineer (P.W.D.) North Division; some time back?

(d) If the answer to (c) above be in the negative whether Government propose to issue the fitness certificate to the Transport authorities?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) replied :

174. (a) - Yes.

        (b) - No survey of traffic potentialities of the Shillong-Umroi-Bhoilymbong route has been made and as such no decision has been taken on introduction of bus service on this route.

        (c) - It is not a fact.

        (d) - Does not arise.

Defalcation of Motor Vehicles Taxes

Shri J.M. Syiem asked :

175. Will the Minister in charge of Transport be pleased to state -

(a) Whether it is not a fact that huge amount of motor vehicles taxes has been defalcated in the Office of the District Transport Officer, Shillong?

(b) If so, what is the amount involved?

(c) What actions have been taken against those responsible for such defalcation?

(d) What steps have been taken to avoid recurrence of such case.

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) replied :

175. (a) - Yes.

        (b) - Rs.1,12,842.26

        (c) - The cashier in the Office of the District Transport Officer Shillong has already been placed under suspension with effect from 5th September 1975.

        (d) - The District Transport Officer is verifying the cash book daily?

Suspension of drivers and conductors

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh asked :

176. Will the Minister in charge of Transport be pleased to state -

        (a) The number of drivers and conductors under the State Transport suspended since the Meghalaya Transport Corporation took over?

        (b) The number of cases so far disposed with results thereof?

        (c) The number of cases still pending?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) replied :

176. (a) - Drivers - 9
        Conductor - 1

        (b) - One driver only was re-instated with stoppage of increment for one year.

        (c) - Drivers - 8
        Conductors - 14.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- The answer to (a) is, conductor one, but according to answer (c) the number of pending cases and conductors suspended is shown as 14. How is this possible?

Shri F.K. Mawlot (Minister of State for Transport) :- There is a printing mistake. The number of conductors suspended is 14 and the number of cases disposed of is one.

Cottage Industry Training Centre at Mawsynram

Shri W. Syiemiong asked :

177. Will the Minister in charge of Industries be pleased to state -

(a) Whether the Services of the officials of the Cottage Industry Training Centre at Mawsynram are properly utilised?

(b) How many trainees were trained in blacksmithy and carpentry during the last three years?

(c) What is the annual establishment cost for the maintenance of this Training Centre and how many official are there altogether.

Shri Salseng C. Marak (Minister of State, in-charge of Small Scale and Cottage Industries) replied :

177. (a) - Yes, but not fully.

        (b) - None in blacksmithy and three in carpentry.

        (c) - Annual establishment cost was Rs.29,219.00 during 1976-77. There were five person employed in the Centre.

Shri K.M. Roy Marbaniang :- May we know the names of the trainees in carpentry?

Shri Salseng C. Marak (Minister of State, in-charge of Small Scale and Cottage Industries) :- I want notice, Sir.

Implementation of Rural Industries Project.

Prof. Martin N. Majaw asked :

178. Will the Minister in charge of Industries be pleased to state -

(a) Whether it is a fact that the Rural Industries Project has been extended only to the Garo Hills District?

(b) What are the aims and objects of the Projects?

(c) Whether the Government has identified and selected any rural areas in the Garo Hills for the implementation of the Rural Industries Project, and if so, which are they?

(d) Whether it is a fact that the Project Officer in the Garo Hills is operating from an urban area, Tura Town for the implementation of the Rural Industries Project?

(e) If so, what are his reasons for this?

(f) Whether the Government is aware of the fact that in other States Rural Industries Projects are always located in, and operate from backward rural areas?

(g) What is the name of the Project Officer-in-charge of the Rural Industries Project in Tura?

Shri Salseng C. Marak (Minister of State, for Industries) replied :

178. (a) - Yes.

        (b) - To enlarge employment opportunities and raising income and standard of living of rural people by intensive industrialisation in rural areas through the small Scale and Cottage Industries, by expansion of existing units and setting up new units, and setting up new units, and by diversification of rural occupation leading to reduction of exodus to urban centres.

        (c) - The Government of India has sanctioned Rural Industries Project for the entire undivided District of Garo Hills, including Tura Town.

        (d) - The Project Officer's head-quarters is at Tura.

        (e) - For co-ordination with other development officers and agencies, it is necessary to have the headquarters of Rural Industries Project at Tura

        (f) - No.

        (g) - Shri D.K. Choudhury

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- 178 (g). Sir, Whether this incumbent is a technician or from the administrative side?

Shri Salseng C. Marak (Minister of State, for Industries) :- From the Government side.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- (b), (c), (d), and (e), the answer to (b) is mainly to reduce the exodus to urban centres. How does Government propose to reduce the exodus to the urban centres when the headquarter is located at Tura as this is an urban place.

Shri Salseng C. Marak (Minister of State, for Industries) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, a techno-economic survey is being conducted at present.

Chemical and Essential Oil Industrial Unit

Shri K.M. Roy Marbaniang asked :

179. Will the Minister in charge of Industries be pleased to state -

(a) What are the places where the chemical and essential oil is extracted from Tezpatta?

(b) How many of such industries are there in the State?

(c) What are the criteria adopted for location of such industries?

Shri Salseng C. Marak (Minister of State, for Industries) replied :

179. (a) - Four distillation centres have been set up at Mawshamok, Ladsohbar, Wahkaliar and Phlangmawsyrpat for this purpose.

        (b) - Only one such industrial Unit exists in the State even though some amount of Tezpatta is used for extraction of oil by another unit also, as a supplemental work.

        (c) - The availabili8ty of the major inputs (viz. tezpatta and fuel) at competitive prices and infrastructure facilities.

Shri M.N. Majaw :- 179 (b). Is this industrial unit owned and managed by our Government.

Shri Salseng C. Marak (Minister of State, for Industries) :- No Sir, it is a joint sector venture.

Trainees in the Factory and Office of the Mawmluh-Cherra Cements Ltd.

Shri S.P. Swer asked :

180. Will the Minister in charge of Industries be pleased to state -

(a) The number of trainees and traders in which they are trained in the factory and office of the Mawmluh-Cherra Cements Limited under the 20 Point Programme?

(b) The duration of the training course in each trade?

(c) The names of books prescribed for the oretical training and practical training in each trade?

(d) The practice followed while conducting the training courses for the trainees in the Company's factory and office and what is there progress so far?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister of Industries) replied :

180. (a) and (b) - Four persons are being trained by M/s Mawmluh Cherra Cements Limited under the "Apprentices Act, 1961", as detailed below :-

(1)

Clerk general : 1 (One) - 1 year duration.

(2)

Book Keeping : 1 (One) - 1 year duration.

and Accountancy.

(3)

Fitter : 1 (One) - 3 years duration.

(4)

Welder : 1 (One) - 2 years duration.

        (c) - A list of books recommended for commercial trades is placed on the Table of the House. For technical trades the book would be recommended during theoretical training, which has not commenced.

        (d) - For technical trades, i.e. for Fitter and Welder, Shop Floor training is given by departmental heads in the factory by actually employing the apprentices on the various aspects of the job. For theoretical training in these trades, the assistance of the Shillong I.T.I. has been sought by the Company as it has no facilities in this regard. Training for the trade of Clerk general and Book Keeping and Accountancy is imparted in the factory office by actually employing the apprentices in the work. Progress of training of apprentices on all trades is satisfactory.

Prisoners under the jurisdiction of the Jaintia and West Khasi Hills Districts

Prof. M.N. Majaw asked :

181. Will the Minister in charge of Jails be pleased to state -

(a) Whether prisoners under the jurisdiction of the Jaintia and West Khasi Hills Districts are still lodged at the District Jail, Shillong?

(b) If so,

        (i) What is the present District-wise break-up for these prisoners?

        (ii) How much has the State spent on travelling and other expenses for such prisoners when they are taken to Jowai and Nongstoin for Court hearing during the year 1976-77?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State, in charge of Jails) replied :

181. (a) - Yes.

        (b) - (i) As on 13th June 1977 there are 16 and 4 under trial prisoners from Jowai and Nongstoin respectively.

        (ii) Rupees 11,333.25.

Prof. M.N. Majaw :- Is the Government thinking of setting up Jails in Jowai and Nongstoin?

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State, in charge of Jails) :- Yes, Sir.

Share due to the Garo Hills District Council from minor mineral and motor vehicles

Shri Samarendra Sangma asked :

182. Will the Minister in charge of District Council Affairs be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether the shares due to the Garo Hills District Council in respect of minor mineral have already been cleared upto-date?

        (b) If not, the reason thereof?

        (c) Whether the share of the Garo Hills District Council in respect of motor vehicles taxes have already been cleared upto-date?

        (d) If not, the reason thereof?

        (e) What is the approximate annual collection from profession tax in Garo Hills?

Shri G.A. Marak (Minister in charge of District Council Affairs) replied :

182. (a) - No.

        (b) - The shares due to the Garo Hills District Council in respect of minor minerals have been paid upto 1975-76. The share due during 1976-77 will be paid after  the figures of revenue and adjusted and verified.

        (c) - The shares of Garo Hills District Council in respect of Motor Vehicles taxes have already been paid upto the year 1975-76 as follows :-

Period Amount Paid
1973-74 - - Rs.2,32,057.56
1974-75 - - Rs.1,61,170.59
1975-76 - -

Rs.2,03,548.37

Total - Rs.5,96,776.82.

        (d) - The share of the Garo Hills District Council for the year 1976-77 will be finalised on receipt of the verified figures from Accountant General, Meghalaya, Shillong.

        (e) - The approximate annual collection from profession tax in Garo Hills during 1976-77, is Rs.65,400.00

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we know whether verification is done by the District Council or by this Government?

Shri G.A. Marak (Minister in charge of District Council Affairs) :- The figure for the amount submitted by the District Council do not tally with the amount collected by the Department. This matter has been referred to the A.G. After verification by the A.G. the Government will take up.

Meghalaya House, Calcutta

Shri Samarendra Sangma asked :

183. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

(a) The total recurring monthly expenditure towards pay of staff working in the Meghalaya House, Calcutta?

(b) The total number of rooms with seat accommodations that exist in the Meghalaya House, Calcutta?

(c) The daily average number of boarders in Meghalaya House, Calcutta?

(d) The year-wise seat rent so far collected from the Meghalaya House, Calcutta?

(e) Whether it is a fact that the entire top floor of the said house is not being judiciously utilised?

(f) How many rooms are there on the top floor and how the rooms are being utilised?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

183. (a) - A statement is placed on the Table of the House.

        (b) - 10 rooms and 2 Dormitories. In these 10 rooms, 25 beds are provided.

        (c) - 3 (Officials and Non-Officials) during the period from October, 1974 to December, 1976.

        (d) -

1974-75 1975-76 19776-77
Rs.19,468.50 Rs.40,562.50 Rs.38,289.00

        (e) - No. It is not a fact.

        (f) - On the top floor of Buildings Nos. 9 and 10 the number of rooms and the manner in which they are being utilised is as follows :

BUILDING No.9

2

rooms used as Circuit House Rooms.

rooms used as Girls' Dormitory.

1

room (under partial repair) temporarily allotted for accommodation of the P.W.D. Engineer posted at the Guest House.

1

Big Lounge

. . .

Which are kept reserved for the occupants for this floor.

1.

Covered Verandah

 . . . 

Total   7

BUILDING No.10

2 Bed rooms (with attached Bathrooms).
1 Lounge.
1 Big Room.
Small Rooms.
Covered Verandah
Total   8

        The above rooms are being utilised as follows :-

Bed rooms with attached Bathrooms

 Utilised by Trade Adviser and Director of Movements, Calcutta.

 

Kept unused.

2

Small rooms

1

Big Room.

Lounge

1

Covered Verandah

1

Small room

Offices of B.A.D.Os

Shri K.M. Roy Marbaniang asked :

184. Will the Minister in charge of Border Areas Development be pleased to state -

(a) Where are the offices of the different B.A.D.Os located?

(b) Whether it is a fact that these B.A.D.Os are never found in their headquarters as a result of which the people do not get the services of the trucks meant for carrying border produces?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Border Areas Development) replied :

184. (a) The offices of the different B.A.D.Os are located at -

(i) Pynursla.
(ii) Cherrapunjee
(iii) Ranikor
(iv) Mawsynram
(v)  Shillong
(vi) Dawki
(vii) Umkiang
(viii) Jowai
(ix) Baghmara
(x) Gasuapara
(xi) Dalu
(xii) Kalaichar
(xiii) Betasing
(xiv) Tura.

        (b) - We have not received any specific complained to that effect.

Taking over Government buildings between the Government of Assam and Government of Meghalaya.

Shri P.G. Momin asked :

185. Will the Chief Minister be pleased to state -

(a) Whether it is a fact that the matter of handing and taking over of all the Government buildings at Shillong between the Government of Assam and Government of Meghalaya had already been completed?

(b) Whether it is a fact that some Government buildings are still being occupied by the Assam Government employees up till now?    

(c) If so, the detailed particulars of both such occupants and buildings and also the reasons for allowing them to occupy the buildings for such a long period may be furnished?

(d) What action has so far been taken by the Government of Meghalaya to cause vacation of such occupied buildings by the employees of Assam Government?

Shri Williamson A. Sangma (Chief Minister) replied :

185. (a) - No.

        (b) - Yes.

        (c) - A list is placed on the Table of the House.

        (d) - Each Department of this Government which is responsible for each such building is taking necessary steps as indicated in column 5 of the statement.

Shri H. Hadem :- 185 (b). Sir, whether the rent is paid by them?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- I want notice for that Sir.

Mr. Speaker :- Before passing on to the next item, may I inform the House that this time out of 224 unstarred questions as many as 185 have been replied to by the Government. The performance is really very good, the percentage being 82.58. But I think the House will be more benefited if the Government in future will come with answers in a proportionate manner from the very first day, the next day and so on, because on the last day there are too many. And out of the three short notice questions which have been admitted there is no answers to any of the three. Now, the Minister of State, incharge of Power and Electricity wants to correct the answer to question 162.


Statement by Minister

Shri D.D. Lapang (Minister of State, Power) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the cost of 20 paise is not correct because the cost of production is below 40 paise and also I would like to say that the figure given to the hon. Member from Mawkhar is not the actual receipt.

The Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya (Members' Pension) Bill, 1977

Mr. Speaker :- Let us pass on to the next item and before I ask the Minister to move the bill for consideration, let me read the message from Governor.

"RAJ BHAVAN

SHILLONG

The 21st May, 1977.

        In exercise of the power conferred by clause (3) of Article 207 of the Constitution of India, I Lallan Prasad Singh, Governor of Meghalaya hereby recommend to the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly the consideration of the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya (Members' Pension) Bill, 1977.

LALLAN PRASAD SINGH

GOVERNOR OF MEGHALAYA."

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Parliamentary Affairs) :- Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg to move that the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya (Members' Pension) Bill, 1977, be taken into consideration.


GOVERNMENT BILL

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received notice from Mr. Kyndiah who wants to move the motion that the Bill be circulated for the purpose of eliciting public opinion thereon by 30th September, 1977.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- I beg to move  that the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya (Member's Pension) Bill 1977 be circulated for the purpose of eliciting public opinion thereon by 30 September, 1977".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Now you can initiate the discussion.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, my intention is moving in this motion to enable us time and opportunity to examine in depth, coolly and calmly and with objectivity the provisions of the Bill in the light of the people's elections and also our own reactions. Now  Sir, as we know, law making is a process which necessitates the study of all aspects of question under consideration and we have also to consider the various angles in order to enable to frame a law which is in consonance with the best interest of the people of the State. As someone has said "law is the embodiment of the moral sentiment of the people". Now Sir, we attach important of this Bill which we know that it has come before us as moved by the Government in order to enable the M.L.A. to have a reasonable standard of living so as to enable him to devote himself to the activities beneficial to the State. This is one angle. But I have taken a little pain to find out the implications, the import, the meaning underlying pension. What is really pension? This is the whole crux of the matter. Now, Sir, according to the Oxford Dictionary, pension is a regular payment to persons of rank,  royal favourites, etc. to enable them to maintain their  State. The other meaning is, it is a regular payment to men of learning of  science, artists etc, to enable them to carry on works of public interest or value. Then again, since the Bill contemplates that M.L.As. will become pensioners, I had also an opportunity and to find out what pensioner means in the context of the dictionary. According to the dictionary, it means a person who is in receipt of money in consideration of past services or on account of injuries on account of injuries received in service. It also means a mercenary. Again pension, according to the Chamber Dictionary, it says, as a mark of favour an allowance to one who has retired or has been disabled or reached ole age or having widowed or orphaned.

Mr. Speaker :- What is the retirement age of public leaders?

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- I will come to that, Sir. According to this definition of the Chamber Dictionary and Oxford Dictionary and also in the context of our own understanding of the word "Pension" I would say it has two attributes. The first attribute is a  regular payment of  a certain sum of money to a person in consideration of the service renders . Then the second attributes is very important for us to think. It is a financial benefit conferred on a person for a lifetime. How many of us, according to this Bill will be a pensioner? Perhaps at the age of 35, 45, or 55 or according to the biblical calculations, three scores and ten. Some of the members appear to be determined  to score a century. In any case, these are the two attributes of pension but in this case, Sir, I would like to concentrate on the enlightened understanding of the word pension. Because in our modern understanding, I believe it is given in consideration of five factors, in recognition of past service. I am raising this point, Sir whether the members of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly of the public representatives need recognition to the extent to be awarded. Are we considering that aspect of the matter or are we considering that we are volunteers in public service. Do we expect an awarded for recognition of our past service. I do not believe so. According to the provision of the Bill. the past services are meant only for five years  or so. Sir, we also know that public life is a voluntary, noble service, Sir, that we pledge to serve the people. Now, this first point is generally relevant because we have to consider in this Bill where we should be awarded on account of our past service. So this is the first angle which I like to throw before the House for consideration. Now, the second factor is; a pension is given in conservation of professional services like Doctors, Engineers, Administrators, Statisticians, Educationists or any other type of professional services. Do we think that this public service, the M.L.As constitute to be a professional service, the ones who earn a living? This is the second angle which I would like to be seriously considered by the House before taking any step to consider the Bill. The third factor, Sir, which I would  like to place before the House is when a pension is given, it does associate with needs. A pension is given because of the need of a person. In an old age, a man who is not able to do any work, he is in need of a certain amount of money to sustain his livelihood or he is sick or mishap befell on him. That is why he needs money. Now, whether in this Bill or through this Bill this factor has been given full play of consideration. This is the question I like to place before the House. Now, the fourth factor which is important and also relevant is when a person is given pension and in the modern usage of the work and of public interest  with a sense of security. Now the question I would like to pose here is whether we as M.L.As need financial security or whether as public representatives we will be adequately secured by  a sense of satisfaction that we do service to the people? A person who is in public life is not handicapped to serve the people because of a sense of financial security, it is nto and cannot be in material sense, solid; it is inside us. It is a satisfaction of the job well done. Now the fifth factor which I like to bring before the House is that a pension is given to a person or certain age. The retirement age of most of the employees is 55  or in certain cases, of I.A.S., 58 years or in certain case in the Army, it may be much less and so on. But in this case this important factor of the age has not at all been taken into consideration by the framers of this Bill. Therefore, I would like to pose a question before the House regarding this question of giving pension to the M.L.As whether it conforms to the normal understanding of the meaning I know you have the majority in the treasury bench. We may be steamrolled. But I also expect that those five basic factors will be taken into consideration by the whole House. In the course of consideration of this Bill. Each one of us will have to consider conscientiously whether the M.L.As should be entitled to a sense of financial security. This is the point that I would like to place before the House. I would also like to make certain general observations Sir, in our great country, the great country that India is, public service or let us say the life of a Public man is elevated by a certain standard, certain value and certain moral level as epitomised by the life of Mahatma Gandhi, whose picture is just before us as well as epitomised by Jay Prakash Narayan recently in the recent history of the country. It conveys what public life is and should be in our country and also in our State. It means to sacrifice and to serve. In fact service and sacrifice are twin idealisms which are the indispensable conditions in public life. It is said that they are the since quanon of public life. I would like to pose a question particularly to the members of the Treasury Bench who seem determined to pass this Bill, as to whether we are conforming to these basic teachings of Mahatma Gandhi and Jay Prakash Narayan. Another question that I would like to pose is whether by passing this Bill we are giving to the people a sense of fairness. There are many services in our State which are not pensionable although they belong to the professional cadres. I know I was once the Chairman of the Shillong Municipality and the employees of the Shillong Municipality are not pensionable. So many categories of teachers, primary, school teachers, aided school teachers, school and college teachers, high school teacher are not pensionable. Even certain types of services in the Boards, Corporation etc., are not pensionable. Many employees in countless services are not pensionable. Even those services which are pensionable, the employees have to complete their terms in office otherwise they are without pension. I therefore, consider this point to be something like impinging on fairness. This question is to be borne fully in mind. 

        Another point I would like to raise which is practicable and even in the last budget discussion, we had an occasion to discuss, that is about the poor resources of our State. We are a very small State. To be frank we are depending upon the subvention and grants from the Centre.   

        I do not know, Sir, even on this consideration whether it is right and proper for us to go in for this pension in view of the poor resources of our State. I will come now to matter most important point that I would like to place before the House. Now, somehow, I feel that this Bill has been brought here in order that consider the proposal, this legislative measure which affects us personally. I say we are bound to be subjective. I would appeal to the Government, through you Sir, that in making a decision to affect us so closely, we should be led by a sense of objectivity. I remember, Sir, in 1973 when I was the General Secretary of the A.P.H.L.C. I had consultation with you about writing a preface, as introduction, to our Party souvenir. I remember at that time, you yourself have given a certain phrase which now comes to my mind. "The eye cannot see itself except through reflection". How  relevant is today when we consider this question that affects so much. the again once upon a time a great man state "Human nature is so constituted, that all see and judge better in the affairs of other men that in their own". Therefore, if you realise, as I do, I would say let the mater be discussed objectively not only by us but the people at large. I feel strongly, Sir, that this Bill deserves to be considered objectively by people at large. On many occasions, in the past, from this side or from that side whether in this House or outside this House, we had laid stress and emphasis on the power of the people. We had also the occasion to say "Vox populi vox dei". "The voice of the people is the voice of God". This Bill which is pregnant with so many far-reaching consequences on the moral and political and administrative planes, I feel strongly, Sir, that the people should be consulted. Heavens will not fall if we delay it for three months . Let us  consider the matter tot he full and obtain the consensus of the public at large. Therefore, my plea, Sir, at this stage it to urge the Treasury Bench to do so, to allow the people to have a say on this mater which is so important and vital and for the best interest of the people. It is  on this context that  I have moved this amendment for circulation to the people to elicit their opinion and after that we can come to a final decision. In any case, I do not want to prejudice the mind of anybody. What I have stated have, I have started with full conviction, that on this measure, if we do not have an opportunity to discussion in a clam and objective manner, we may be leading to and creating a situation, which will be like opening a Pandora's Box and then there will be no end to all kinds of problems because this matter strikes at the root of the concept of public life. With these few words, Sir, I resume my seat.

Prof. A. Warjri :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the motion for amendment. The idea of going to the people to elicit public opinion is not uncommon to most of the members of this House. I would like to remind the member of the House that the stalwarts of the Hills State movement used to believe that major decisions on anything of importance used to be taken first to the people for their opinion. None of us here would be here except by the will of the majority of the people. The people who have sent us to this House have done so for a term of 5 years. It is only because of the constitutional amendment that we are still sitting here. If there had been no constitutional amendment. I do not think any one of us can assure himself/herself that he/she would be sitting here.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- We are already and you are part of it.

Prof. A. Warjri :- Your also. [Interruption]

        It is understood by the people who have voted us to this House, that after a term of 5 years we should go back in order to be able to return to this House. If I may say, at present this Assembly is just a lame duck Assembly. We are here now not because of the mandate of the people or because of the will of a power that is no more. It is for this reason that elections are taking place in the 9 States and the results of which we can already surmise. In this lame duck Assembly.

Shri H. Hadem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order whether the words "lame duck" can be termed as unparliamentary or not.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh :- We have a list of unparliamentary words. I don't think this term is included in that list.

Mr. Speaker :- I am yet to examine and it depends on the context. If I find that it is unparliamentary I can order for its expunction afterwards.

Prof. A. Warjri :- Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I say again this is a lame duck Assembly. It is quite understandable to us to legislate today certain things for their good of the people. But can we in the name of the people who have sent us here to legislate for their interest and for the good of the State, legislate for our own good? Now, just at the fag end of the term we are giving ourselves pension. Can we, in conscience bound tell the people that we are doing this for public interest? However we consider it, we can never convince ourselves, much less convince the people that we are giving ourselves pension for the general good and or public interest. This very House of the representatives of the people which has refused to sanction a meagre amount to an old village primary school. teacher or even to reward him for the 30/35 years of services, has now come up with a Bill for giving to the members, who compose it, a pension. Has it ever occurred to us, or to say to us, to realise the fate of the teacher who had perhaps taught us in village schools, who had retired - forgotten, abandoned and unpensioned. As representatives of the people our salary had been fixed and duly increased and that was done during these five year. Recently we have granted ourselves another allowance namely, telephone allowance. I do not think these are the only facilities enjoyed by the M.L.As. Alas! there are quite a number who have enjoyed more of these facilities. They have made hay while the sun shines.  When the people elected us to this august House they know the salary that we are going to get. There was much criticism already from many sections of the people when we increased our salary and allowances from Rs.500 to Rs.650. The people never sent us to this House to give pension to ourselves. They can tolerate even the increased salary or even the extra emoluments that some of the blue-eyed boys are getting as  Chairman and Directors of this Block and that Corporation. But will they tolerate the idea of our giving pension to ourselves? Are we justified after serving only for a term of five years to grant ourselves pension. Pension, as the mover of this motion for amendment has stated, is given for a long term service. Pension is given to those people who had served at least not less than 25 or 30 years. We have not even completed 6 years and I wonder if we will complete this 6th year. And yet we, the mighty legislators, are considering a Bill or we are going to pass a Bill into an Act for giving ourselves pension. Some Members, I do not blame them, are perhaps quite convinced that this Bill is justificable. But then as peoples' representatives let us make it known to our kith and kin's, to our electorates about this. Let us proclaim before the people to elicit their opinion as to what they think about our giving to ourselves pension or are we afraid to face our electorate. I say Mr. Speaker, Sir, a representative who is afraid to face has own electorate ceases to be a representative and should give up his seat and resign. We have all been sent by the people to represent them and their cause; not at present ourselves and our personal needs. I call upon each and every one of this House, through you Mr. Speaker, Sir, to remember the famous saying for the President of America, Abraham Lincoln when he described democracy as "government of the people, by the people and for the people". Personally I feel that this Bill should not have been introduced at all. Personally I do not like to make myself a parasite to society but as I said as representative of the people my personal feeling is only secondary. It is the feeling and  the desire of the people that come first and I believe this is the conviction of every one of us in this august House. I would specially appeal to my old beloved friends in the Treasury Bench to give this Bill a serious consideration. I urge upon them to forget the story of Ali Baba and the forty thieves. We are here for the people. The amendment which has moved to elicit public opinion is very appropriate. Without fear let us go to the people; let us take it very appropriate. Without fear let us go to the people; let us take their opinion, let us face our electorate and voters and ask them how they feel about this. I feel an important Bill like this which will financially implicate not only this Government but also the future Governments of the State, should be freely discussed and opinion given by the people. Let it not be said in the history of Meghalaya that the Members of the first Legislative Assembly of the full-fledged State of Meghalaya closed the chapter of the Assembly by passing a Bill giving pension to themselves after serving for 5 years. If this Bill is passed, I can only say this "shame on us". Thank you.

Shri S.N. Koch :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose this amendment moved by the hon. Member Shri P.R. Kyndiah. The definition given by the hon. mover about the pension clearly indicates that pension is not only entitled by those persons who have rendered services for certain period but to those also to whom this benefit is given.  Hence it is not so, as pointed out by the hon. mover of the amendment. Though in our country they are no system or our Government has  not introduced any provision like old age pension as we are giving to Government servants but it is there in others parts of the world. So even for argument sake, if we agree with the hon. Mover that pension should be given only to the persons who have rendered services for certain period it does not hold good. Moreover pension is necessary in a democratic country where a man is not supposed to represent people for all time to come but there is a spirit of service which imbibes in the heart of a man to serve the people whether he is elected or not. But unless he has some  means of subsistence one cannot simply go on doing social service. Many men may dream many things, there is no bar for dreaming, but it is difficult for him to implement those dreams in practical world. Nobody can do anything without the means of subsistence, i.e. without money. so what the State is going to do is not that these Members will be given a means of livelihood so that one can go on rendering services to the people whether they represent the electorates or not. In our country before we achieved Independence there were many national leaders who had rendered their services and perhaps many of them were not elected at all. Therefore, unlike Government servants nobody can guarantee that once somebody is elected will be elected of all time to come. Nobody can guarantee that. As such, when a Member is elected in the previous term, in the next term he may be either defeated or he may not contest any election. Naturally he will have to face the economic crisis. As for example, one of the best parliamentarians, late Hem Baruah, who died suffering for about two years, and whose obituary reference was made in this House also. So, Sir, the intention of the Government here is to help such Members who may not be standing for the next term or he might be defeated to give him security in his old age. So, the question of need which the hon. Member has pointed out is very much there and that cannot be denied. The hon. Member from Mawkhar, Prof. A. Warjri, has said that we are elected by the people to be their representative and also for their benefit. I do agree with that. But that does not mean that we cannot make a law to give ourselves pension. And I think he is not correct in his respect. Sir, definitely it was never an issue in my election nor the hon. Member had earlier said that if he is elected he will make law or laws so as to give him such pay and allowances. But Sir, that particular hon. Members was successful in his endeavour and he is now drawing his pay and other allowances and moreover he is entitled to get telephone connection and other necessary reimbursement. I would simply like to appreciate his sentiment and again he will say before the voters that I am here for you and you alone and not for myself. Sir, this kind of sophisticated language or term is called * * * and let us not take this House to the State. Sir, the hon. Member also cited that we are giving meagre pay to the school teachers whereas we are getting Rs.300 as our pension. Sir, this is a fact to be noted that the President of India who gets Rs.10,000, I think, his responsibilities are much less than any other M.L.As or M.P.s or Minister and even then he is getting Rs.10,000 as his salary per month.

Mr. Speaker :- Mr. Koch, you cannot cite an example quoting the President or Government in this  House.

Shri S.N. Koch :- Now, here Mr. Speaker, Sir, the difference between the responsibilities to be discharged by the M.L.A and the L.P. school teacher is very very big. There is a big clearage between these two subjects. The activities of the L.P. school teacher ale confined in a small building and the activities and responsibilities of the M.L.A. are throughout the State. So, Sir, the pay or pension which has been fixed by the Government depends on the responsibility which they will have to shoulder. But Sir, what I mean to say is that such financial benefits should definitely be based on reasonable differences. So, I don't think that this is a reasonable ground for such this amendments should be accepted. Last but not the least is that when the hon. Member was speaking again and again about this financial implication, I do not think that we will be helping our State's exchequer if we send this Bill for eliciting public opinion. Sir, it will only entail a huge expenditure and it will take time also. So, from this point of view, this amendment does not deserve any consideration and I oppose it strongly and urge upon the House to reject this amendment. Thank you.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is no more need to add and perhaps we cannot add to what Mr. Kyndiah and Prof. A. Warjri have said on this matter - specially Mr. Kyndiah who has placed the whole matter in a very fruitful and clear manner for all of us to understand the implications of the matter before us. Here I should only by way to emphasis, again reiterate what Mr. Kyndiah as said about one aspect of this matter, that in this propose Bill we are going to move in the mater that concerns ourselves and therefore, Mr. Kyndiah has said we will naturally take it to be special and therefore, Mr. Kyndiah, through his motion has suggested that in view of the subjective nature of this proposed legislation, we can have a more objective consideration by taking this matter for consulting the people and eliciting their opinion thereon. It is in that process we shall surely achieve the high degree of objectivity. Mr. Kyndiah Sir, my second and last point is that Mr. Kyndiah was speaking about the difference of this country with other countries in the matter of customs and culture. I was reminded Sir, of the year 1964 when we are mourning the passing away of our great leader, Pandit Nehru in the obituary reference during  that time. In the House a colleague of mine Mr. Nichols Roy said debut the story of the visit of Pandit Nehru and how it reflected the Indian community and students in America. He said how the people were exited and proud and how this distinction was brought home to them in America and also about the back-slapping of the politicians. And this is a very great distinction that India has shown to the world. Therefore, the question posed by Mr. Kyndiah, I would endorse, that when we are considering this matter let us take into consideration one factor that in this country of our we have a system of dedicated leadership as against the back-slapping leadership as has been described by Mr. Nichols-Roy of the reaction in the United States of America. These are the considerations to be fully and impartially considered in the introducing this proposed legislation that is before the House today.

Mr. Speaker :- Minister, Parliamentary Affairs to reply.

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Parliamentary Affairs) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in introducing this Bill I would like to say that the Bill has been introduced after we have seriously considered as to whether a pension should be given or not to the Members of the Legislative Assembly. Similar Acts have already been passed by Parliament and a number of States in India but we have taken into consideration the factors existing in Meghalaya with regard to the economic condition etc. of the members of the Legislative Assembly. It is with due consideration of all these questions that we have introduced this Bill and find that it is necessary that the members should get a pension when they are no longer members of  the Assembly. In this connection, Sir, I would submit before this House that most of our members are very hard up, although some of them are well-to-do. But there is no doubt also that most of the members re persons who have dedicated themselves to social services. They are the persons who have devoted all their time to no other work except to certain activities which are beneficial to the people of the State. It is under this  consideration that we have introduced this Bill that although they may not continue to be members of the Legislative Assembly yet they may devote their lives to social service for development of the people in the State. We have no doubt whatsoever that they will continue to serve in the best way whether inside or outside this Assembly. It has, therefore, been said by the member from Jaiaw that we want them to be secure in life. We want them to carry on the works for the benefit of the people and in that we have also a reasonable standard of living and therefore it is under this consideration that we have introduced this Bill. I will not got into the other questions with regard to the Municipality employees who do not get pension and also to persons serving in other departments or corporations. As my friend from Jaiaw knows these employees get other benefits in the shape of provident fund and other benefits that are allowed to them under the rules. But the main question raised is that this Bill should be circulated in order to elicit public opinion and the argument put forward by all the members in the Opposition is that because this Bill affects us. That is their main argument.

        Now in this connection they say that we should not give any additional benefit to ourselves but we should be judged by others as to whether we should be given benefit in the shape of pension even after we no longer continue to be Members of the Assembly. As the time when the Salary Bill was introduced my friends where at the helm of affairs. They had introduced the Salary Bill of the M.L.A's. My hon. friend from Mawkhar has laid that we were sent by the people to represent them for 5 years. The people electing us do not know that we are entitled to get salary as M.L.A's of this august House. Many of these people do not know also that we are entitled to get daily allowances and travelling allowances for attending the Session and other Assembly Committee. Yet this Salary Bill has been passed by this House at that time and there was no question of circulating it for eliciting public opinion. What is the difference between this Bill and the Salary Bill? My friend, the hon. Member representing Mawkhar Constituency had also said that our salary was increased and further he had mentioned that because the salary of the M.L.A's was increased, there was public criticism. May I ask the hon. Member whether he has surrendered the difference owing to the increase of the salary because there was criticism? Even now he has the liberty to refund whatever difference is there if he feels that it should be refunded. There is no bar whatsoever for him to do so even now. Further they said that because of the poverty of our State they do not make the salary. But then at the time when the salary was increased and when the Bill was introduced they never asked that the Bill be circulated for eliciting public opinion thereon. So there is no distinction whatsoever between the Bill and the Salary Bill. Then again while the members attend committee meetings they have taken the T.A. and for this also they were not authorised by the people.

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will not go into the other question when other bills have not been circulated for public opinion. I see no reason whatsoever why this Bill introduced at present should be circulated for public opinion Further Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would say that it is no compulsory to take pension. Any member who feels that he does not want pension, he may forego it on the ground that the Bill has not been circulated for public opinion. Of course I do not expect that the hon. Members will not return next time. But suppose a time comes when they retire and are not longer M.L.As they are at liberty to forgo. They are a member in the District Council who never took a single penny as pay. 

Mr. Speaker :- But according to law, he must at least take one rupee.

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Parliamentary Affairs) :- That particular member Mr. Speaker, Sir, never took a single penny.

Mr. Speaker :- Perhaps the District Council has different rules.

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Parliamentary Affairs) :- Further Sir, because the Salary Bill was not circulated for public opinion, they could forego their salary. Let the Salary Bill be circulated for public opinion. I would, therefore, say that the reasons put forward by the hon. Members from the Opposition are not convincing that this Bill should be circulated for public opinion. With these few words, I resume my seat.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- Just a short observation. Sir, I was listening to the arguments put forward by our colleagues in the opposite. From the speeches it appears to me that they were more or less opposed to the principle of the Bill. As such the correct time should have been to oppose the Bill at the time of introduction. Therefore, it is clear that this is the second political thought.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh :- May I cite an example. The Treasury Bench will not object at the introduction stage, to S.P. Swer's amendment bill. So what is this analogy?

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- The principle object of the Bill in the same.

Mr. Speaker :- I think the hon. member who spoke from this side has expressed his opinion that since this Bill affects the members of the Assembly, let the people have a say on it. Actually he does not say that he is opposed to the principle of the Bill.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- I was listening. But from the tone of the discussion, it appears that he was opposed to the very principle of the bill. There is no scope to compare this Bill with the Bill which was introduced by the hon. Member from Sohra, We did not oppose the Bill at the time of introduction because the principle is the same. Therefore, we did not oppose it. Now, here from the talks, it appears that this is a second thought. Therefore, on the ground also it appears to me that they welcome the principle. 

Mr. Speaker :- I think that question no longer comes here because at the consideration stage, either the Bill be taken into consideration or the Bill goes tot he Committee or the Bill be circulated for eliciting public opinion. It is a question of stage. It is not a question of public opinion. So I will put the question before the House. The question is that the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya (Members' Pension) Bill, 1977 be circulated for the purpose of eliciting public opinion thereon by 30th September, 1977.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah :- We press for a division.

D i v i s i o n 

Mr. Speaker :- Ayes - 9 :

1. 

Prof. Alexander Warjri.
2. Shri Brington Buhai Lyngdoh.
3. Shri Besterson Kharkongor.
4. Shri G. Mylliemngap.
5.  Shri Galynstone Laloo.
6. Shri Humphrey Nongrum.
7.  Shri Jor Manik Syiem.
8.  Shri P. Ripple Kyndiah.
9.  Shri S.P. Swer.

Noes - 36

1.  Capt. W.A. Sangma
2. Shri Edwingson Bareh.
3. Shri Sandford K. Marak
4. Shri Grohonsing A. Marak
5.  Shri Maham Singh
6. Shri Peter Garnett Marbaniang
7.  Shri Salseng C. Marak
8.  Shri Blooming B. Shallam
9.  Shri Upstar Kharbuli
10. Shri D. Dethwelson Lapang.
11. Shri Francis K. Mawlot.
12. Md. Akramozzaman.
13. Shri Brojendra Sangma.
14. Shri Choronsing Sangma
15. Shri Dhruba Nath Joshi.
16.  Shri Dlosing Lyngdoh.
17.  Shri Edward Kurbah.
18. Shri H. Enowell Pohshna.
19. Shri Humphrey Hadem.
20.  Shri Ira Marak.
21. Shri Jagabandhu Barman
22. Shrimati Miriam D. Shira.
23. Shri Manindra Rava.
24. Shri Nimosh Sangma.
25. Onward Leyswell Nongtdu.
26. Shri Parsvanath Choudhury.
27. Miss Percylina Marak
28. Shri Plansing Marak.
29. Shri Pleander Gare Momin.
30. Shri Pritington Sangma.
31. Shri Raison Mawser.
32. Shri M. Reidson Momin.
33.  Shri Samarendra Sangma
34.  Shri Sibendra Narayan Koch
35. Shri Shamsul Haque.
36.  Shri William Cecil R. Marak.

(The Amendment was lost)

        Now, let me put the main question before the House. The question is that the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya (Members' Pension) Bill, 1977 be taken into consideration.

(The motion was carried)

        Now the Bill will be taken up clause by clause and in the meantime, Mr. Y. Fuller Lyngdoh will move an amendment to clause 2(a) of the Bill.

Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that item (i) of Sub-clause 2 (a) of the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya (Members Pensions) Bill, 1977 be deleted.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Now you can initiate the discussion.

Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the very statement of objects and reasons given by the Minister in charge, it has been stated that the office of the Member of the Legislative Assembly is very important in a democratic set up. Sir, the Member of the Provisional Legislature was not at all democratically elected. They were nominated by the District Council.

Mr. Speaker :- I think  Mr. Lyngdoh, the Assam Reorganisation Act clearly says that the Members of the autonomous Assembly shall be indirectly elected by the District Councils. It is not a question of nomination.

Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh :- In any case, Sir, they were not directly elected by the people and also this Provisional Legislature was only a temporary body which lasted only for about 2 years. So in a democratic country when a Member is not elected in a democratic manner I feel that the inclusion of the Provisional Assembly Members in the Bill to entitle them to any pension is not at all advisable. Sir, in the speech of one of the public leaders from Assam, the then M.P. he said in the Lok Sabha while handling over, the Government did not give power to the District Council, it gave power to the duly elected Legislative Assembly. If you do that it will be a fraud on our democracy. So Sir, the method by which the members of the Provisional Legislature were elected is not in accordance with the normal procedure. How the other M.L.As were elected? So on this very consideration I feel that the inclusion of the members of the Provisional Legislature is not advisable. Thank you Sir. 

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the amendment and also to add that since the then Autonomous State of Meghalaya was not at all a full-fledged State, I feel that this Legislature should not make a law which will cover any other body which are outside the jurisdiction of this full State. In fact I would also recommend that this item No.2 which refers also to the M.L.As of the then Assam Legislative Assembly should not be under the consideration of the House.

Mr. Speaker :- There is no mention about this.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Alright, Mr. Speaker, Sir, since this, the then Autonomous State of Meghalaya was not at all within the purview of the full State, it is only a provisional body under some laws passed that time, I do not think that it should be the principle that this State of our should consider. In fact, they should consider only from the attainment of this full Statehood and not before, that because, Sir, if we do this we must take the example of the Parliament. I do not think Parliament is giving pension to those members of the then Constituent Assembly or other Council during the British rule. Therefore here also we should base on the same principle, that is we should start giving from the day when this Legislature under a full Statehood was constituted.

Mr. Speaker :- Just for clarification, may I ask the Minister whether the Legislature Assembly of Assam has passed similar Act?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister for Parliamentary Affairs) :- No Sir.

Mr. Speaker :- Because if the Assam Assembly passed a similar Act I do not know whether they will be paid from the exchequer of Meghalaya or Assam. There is option.

Shri Maham Singh (Minister for Parliamentary Affairs) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, as has been rightly pointed out by you, the representatives of the people are elected by direct as well as by indirect election. They continue to be representatives of the people of a democratic State. With regard to the members of the Legislative of the Autonomous State of Meghalaya they were indirectly elected to the Assembly.

Shri W.A. Sangma (Chief Minister) :- The members of the Rajya Sabha are also entitled to get.

Shri Maham Singh (Minister for Parliamentary Affairs) :- Yes, I am coming to that. During that period of time they rendered service to the State and to the people. Then again according to the Act of Parliament, a Member of the Provisional Parliament is included as a person entitled to that and we think Members of the Rajya Sabha who are indirectly elected would also be entitled to pension. Then again there has been no objection whatsoever with regard to the Members who have served as members of the Legislative Assembly or of the State Assembly of Assam. In this connection I would say that there is no distinction between a member of the Autonomous State, i.e., of Meghalaya and members of the full-fledged State. They are members nevertheless of a State Legislature and so they are the representatives of the people. With these few words, Sir, I would request the hon. Member to withdraw his amendment.

Mr. Speaker :- The Minister has requested the hon. Member to withdraw the amendment but since the hon. Member remains silent it is presumed that he is not willing to withdraw. So I have to put it in the form of a question. Now, the question before the House is that item (1) of sub-clause 2(a) be deleted.

(The Amendment  was lost)

        Now, may I put the questions before the House. The question is that clause 2 do now form part of the Bill. So clause 2 as introduced, do form part of the Bill. Now Mr. Y.F. Lyngdoh to move the amendment to clause 3.

Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that in the proviso to clause (3) substitute the word "five" appearing twice in lines 2 and 4 by the word "eleven". Why I move this amendment, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is because I feel that bad people will naturally seek elections in the State.

Mr. Speaker :- And if they can get elected, then the people have confidence in them. It is very much desirable when the people support such person.

Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh :- Another thing Sir, I thought in my opinion that if a person of eleven years is taken into consideration, I think that will be more justifiable.

Mr. Speaker :- And why not twelve years, because according to the Constitution, the Assembly shall lost for six years. So if a person serves as M.L.A. for two terms he would have completed twelve years.

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- But the amendment No.42. of the Constitution will be amended in due course, I think Mr. Speaker, Sir. (laughter

Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh :- Because in another one year after he completes eleven years of service as M.L.A., he will have to prepare for retirement. There may be some person who would like to retire during their term. The Government servant gets pension after he has reached the age of 55 years. In military service, if I am not mistaken, they are given pension after fifteen years of service. So, I think for a member of this august House it will be justifiable if only he had served for a number of years.

        So, I would propose, Mr. Speaker, Sir, this amendment and I believe that Government will take into consideration the point that our State being a poor state and that this is the only term that we have served since the attainment of full State. Sir, if 11 years terms is recommended then in my opinion it is quite acceptable. With these few words, Sir, I move my amendment.

Shri Stanlington David Khongwir :- Sir, I would also like to join hands with the mover  of this amendment. But Sir, thee is not much scope for discussion. The point that has been brought by the mover is to increase the length of service from 5 years to 11 years. Well Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am just remembering an episode that happened in my own House with my own little boy who is now reading in Class VI. He knows a little bit of English and also knows Khasi. The other day I was discussion with him about  pension. I said "then your daddy is likely to go on pension if I fail to be elected, I may go on pension because there has been a provision that the Government has brought forward this Bill". I was explaining to him that immediately after a person has been a member of the Assembly for five years, then next time, if he is not elected again, he will get or he is liable to this pension. Then he asked me the question why, he is pointing to me, why only after a short span of five years, you will get pension? He said pen means 'khulom' and shon, means a feeling just like when you sleep on pine cone, which is called 'shon'. So he is asking me "Are you tired with you pen within this short span of five years"? He asked a very pertinent question. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as hon. Members we have to do service to our people, to the State as suggested by the mover. But I also feel that five years period is really very short because with due respect to the members of this august House, it may so happen that because the people do not actually know, they are yet to see the performance of their elected representatives for the first time. This is the first time that we have been representing the people. Now, Sir, they are watching, they are testing their own representative whether he is good or he is not good in so far as his services rendered by him to the constituency are concerned. Also Mr. Speaker, Sir, there must be some cases where  in 1972 because of multiplicity of candidates may be some member just managed to win in the election and my be if this comfortable member again in the 1978 election may not be elected, he may lose or he might manage to lose. So why not give a chance? My idea is why not give a chance to all of us, to the members who have been elected in 1872, and also to those who have been members of the provisional Legislative Assembly. Why not give to all of us another chance so that the people, the electorate will put us into test for the second time in 1978. If we realise qualify we will realise and we have to consider ourselves the value that we have in so far as our popularity with the electorates in our respective constituencies is concerned. So Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would fall in line with the suggestion brought forward by the mover, the hon. Member from Mairang. I would also very humbly suggest to the Government at least to accept this amendment as already in the reply given by the Minister for Parliamentary Affairs he stated "I am sure that all of us will definitely return next time when we contest the election". If that is so, Mr. Speaker, Sir, why should we be in a hurry to pass this Bill and if we pass this Bill, why not raise the number of years.

Mr. Speaker :- It may give a chance to go on voluntary retirement.

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- I have to disagree with you, Sir. I would say a politician is a politician, it is very difficult to divert from being a politician. So I would really plead with the Government to consider this very important issue and raise it to 11 years. I think when the Government  are smiling and laughing, I hope they are agreeable.

Mr. Speaker :- The Minister to reply?

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Parliamentary Affairs) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would not agree to this amendment because he has not given any convincing reason for fixing this eleven years period. Why not five years, why not 15 years and why not 25 years, why he has selection only those eleven years.

Shri S.D. Khongwir :- Till the second term is over.

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Parliamentary Affairs) :- Even in the second term, it is not known whether we will continue for eleven years or six years. It may not continue to eleven years. Therefore, I do not understand why eleven years and I believe they have not given at least any convincing argument or reasons for fixing eleven years and not 15 years or 10 years or 25 years.

        Now, with regard to the fixing of five years, it has been mentioned by the mover that five years is a very short period. Five years, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I must submit that many of the members here have not had the opportunity of being members for a number of years because many of them were, most probably, fighting for the achievement of this State of  ours. Mr. Speaker, Sir, what is the real object of the Bill? The real object of the Bill is that when a member ceases to be a member of a Legislative Assembly, he should be given pension to have a reasonable standard of living so as to enable him to devote himself to activities beneficial  to the State. Even after 5 years of service as an M.L.A, if he ceases to be a member of this House, what is expected of him is that he will still continue to serve the people and work for the development of the State by devoting himself to other social services. It is for this reason that this Bill has been introduced for paying pension of the members of this Legislative Assembly. Mr. Speaker, Sir, many of the members may not become members after this term of 5 years of this Assembly. But these very members will continue to serve the society and the State and so in order to provide them with a reasonable standard of living this Bill has been introduced. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I say that there is no reason to change from 5 years to 11 years and, therefore, since the hon. Member from Mawlai has not given any reason whatsoever, I would plead - humbly plead with him and also with the hon. Member from Mairang to withdraw the amendment. 

Shri Y. Fuller Lyngdoh :- I am sorry Sir. I cannot withdraw.

Mr. Speaker :- Then let me put the question before the House. The question is the in the proviso to clause (3) substitute the word "five" appearing twice in lines 2 and 4 by the word "Eleven"

(The motion was negatived and the amendment was lost)

        Let me put the question before the House. The question is that clause 3 of the original Bill do form part of the Bill.

The motion is carried and Clause 3 do form part of the Bill.

        Let me put to the House the last question. The question is that Clauses 1, 4, 5 and 6 along with the Preamble, the enacting formula and the title of the Bill do form part of the Bill.

        The motion is carried and the provisions of the original Bill, as introduced, do form part of the Bill.

        Now I ask the Minister to move that  the Bill be passed.

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Parliamentary Affairs) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Bill be passed.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Now I put the question before the House. The question is that the Legislative Assembly of Meghalaya (Members' Pension) Bill, 1977, be passed.

(The motion was carried and the Bill was passed)

        Let us pass on to Item No.3. Before I ask the Minister to move that the Bill be taken into consideration, let me read the message from the Governor.

"Raj Bhavan,

Shillong.

25th May, 1977.

        In exercise of the powers conferred by Clause (3) of  Article 207 of the Constitution of India, I, Lallan Prasad Singh, Governor of Meghalaya, hereby recommend to the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly the consideration of the Meghalaya Transfer of Land (Regulation) (Amendment) Bill, 1977.

LALLAN PRASAD SINGH,

Governor".

        Minister to move that the Bill be taken into consideration.

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Parliamentary Affairs) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Meghalaya Transfer of Land (Regulation) (Amendment) Bill, 1977, be taken into consideration.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I put the question before the House. The question is that the Bill be taken into consideration.

(The motion was carried)

        Now the Bill will be taken into consideration clause by clause.

        Mr. Rowell Lyngdoh to move his amendment to Clause 3 of the Bill.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that - (a) Item (A) of Clause 3 be substituted by the following-

"(A) the full stop (.) at the end of sub-section (I) be deleted and the following be added -
"and except in area of areas as the Government of Meghalaya may from time to time by notification specify;"
(b) "the proposed proviso under item (B) be deleted;" and
(c)  In term (C) the words "the proviso to" occurring between the words "Under" and "sub-section" in the proposed sub-section (2) be deleted.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Now you can initiate a discussion.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Sir, first of all, my intention is brining this amendment is more or less the same as what we have intended in our original Bill itself, i.e., to give protection to the tribal land. But in this respect I would read the whole of the main sub-section (1) of Section 3 of the Principal Act. So the principal Act, when this amendment is included, will read as follows -

        "Sub-section (1) of Section 3 - No land in Meghalaya shall be transferred by a tribal to a non-tribal or by a non-tribal to another non-tribal except with the previous sanction of the competent authority and except in area or areas as the Government of Meghalaya may from time to time by notification specify."

        Therefore, my intention is that-and as I have written in this notice of mine about the object and reasons, this amendment must be incorporated in the Bill to the affect that Meghalaya land shall not be transferred to the non-tribal except in certain areas which the Government of Meghalaya by notification specify. Even in the principal Act itself, the intention is to give protection of tribal land or to have certain restrictions on the transfer of land from a tribal to a non-tribal and also from a non-tribal to another non-tribal. Therefore, it really aims to protect against any random sale or transfer of land or against any dwindling away of the tribal land.

(At this stage, the Speaker, left the Chamber and Shri H. Hadem, Chairman, took the Chair)

because, Mr. Chairman, Sir, the present Act which has been in force till now has given the authority  to the Government. The Government has appointed competent authority to look after the transfer of land. But, Sir, the provision in the Act itself is not so adequate for the authority to refuse any transfer of land. There is no such provision to  refuse any transfer of tribal land. So Sir, if we at all intend to restrict the transfer of land from a tribal to a non-tribal there in no such provision by which the competent authority can exercise its power to refuse such transfer. Therefore, Mr. Chairman, Sir, there is no such provision prescribed in the Act. Of course the Government now brought this present Bill for consideration, it seems, to avoid those lacunae, i.e. to prohibit certain areas from transfer of land and those, areas the Government will notify. But if you consider this Bill carefully, Sir, you will find that the intention to restrict transfer of tribal land to non-tribal  is confined only to certain areas or certain villages. The Government will notify only those areas as prohibited from transfer of land. It has given the scope to speculate or presume that the lands in the whole of Meghalaya are transferable except certain areas where  the people are in a position to persuade the Government for notification. But many of the areas in villages in which land belongs to tribals people will not be protected. For example, it rests with the people themselves to convince the Government for notifying their areas. If they do not know how to move the Government, the Government will not notify. Sir, villages like Mairang where there is no non-tribal, naturally the people from there will persuade the Government to notify their area so that transfer of land will be restricted in those areas. But in many areas where the people do not know about the provision of the Act naturally they understand that their lands are permissible for transfer. Sir, in that sense they will feel that lands in Meghalaya, it seems, are not protected. If this be the approach for protection of tribal lands, I feel Sir, it is quite a negative approach. To me, the positive, approach should be to specify only those areas where non-tribal people are inhabiting and as such only those areas should be notified where lands are transferable. In that case it will be presumed that the whole tribal land of Meghalaya is not transferable except those areas which the Government have notified. But it is just to the contrary as we find in this present Bill although the object of this Bill is to give protection to tribal land. If our approach is like this, I am afraid, the tribal lands will be further reduced and as we have said the other day that the tribals really need land to live in. If they are deprived of their lands where will they go ? Therefore, some measures have to be taken for the protection of land. I feel, to be positive, we must approach in this direction, i.e., we notify those places where the Government allows transfer of land. Other than those areas, it must be presumed that the whole of tribal lands in Meghalaya are not transferable. In this case, Mr. Chairman, Sir, the burden will lie with the Government instead of the poor villagers. In that case the villagers need not persuade the Government to notify areas where lands are not transferable. I would, therefore, expect that the Government will come up in a positive manner in this Land Transfer Act; otherwise if we adopt this negative approach, this zigzag way, naturally the people of the tribal community may feel that the Government is not doing anything to protect their land. My only object in this amendment is that the Government is not doing anything to protect their land. My only object in this amendment is that the Government should make it clear that the tribal lands in the whole of Meghalaya are not transferable except certain specified areas which the Government may notify. So the wordings which I have put here in my amendment may be incorporated in the Bill. With these few words, I move my amendment. 

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, during this session we have been in the inner-current that moved in all directions and from all directions inside this House. It moves because in the experiences of the last five years and because we are going next to the new term or new decade and here we have this amendment being proposed by the hon. Member from Mawkyrwat and also we find another similar amendment moved by the hon. Member from Sohra. Mr. Chairman, Sir, I rise to support this amendment and in this amendment we will find the same spirit that moved all the three parties of this House, that in 1976 we had to go to Delhi and persuade the Government of India to make further special promises for the protection of the tribal people. It was this same spirit that moved by A.P.H.L.C. and the parliamentary leader of the House, Capt. Sangma to introduce the Residential Permit Bill. A question may arise in the minds of many as to why this move, right from 1974, 1975 and again from 1976 and specially during the last three weeks in this august House, is going in the same line, i.e. for the protective measures of the tribal people. The answer is very clear, Mr. Chairman, Sir, that it has been found through our experience and has been mentioned in this House that the protection given under the Sixth Schedule is not adequate and also the protection sought under the Land Transfer Act passed by this House in 1970 and 1971 was not adequate. That is why the Leader of the House had taken special  measure because of the inadequacy of the existing provision under the Constitution and also under the existing legislation passed by the House and the District Council. So, Sir, I am glad in this respect that we have come to the consensus of opinion that the existing provision of the Sixth Schedule of the Constitution and the law passed by this House under the Land Transfer Act are not adequate. Hence the Government has to introduce this Amendment Bill. Hence the hon. Member from Mawkyrwat and Sohra have come with the Amendments to further strengthen the provision of this Bill. And hence my suggestion for improving the proposed Amendment Bill introduced by the Government. Mr. Chairman, Sir, what we are considering now is only the degree of improvement, whether the proposed amendment would be more effective, more adequate to serve the end for which we have all agreed or whether that amendment proposed by the hon. Members from Mawkyrwat and Sohra and would be more effective. Sir, it is a matter of simple effectiveness of the same purpose, and we have also come to realise that the existing laws passed by this House of the existing provision in the Constitution are not adequate. Let us take this very Act passed by the House in 1970-71 and 1972 where it was provided that no land shall be transferred from a tribal to Non-tribal. Sir, why it is not adequate, because in practice you will also find that it is only a mere formality. It is just like the children who will not be allowed to enter into the school or class without the permission of the Headmaster. It is also a question of general discipline that if we want to enter into a city bus, we will have to get the permission from the conductor even though there are no such laws that we should not enter into a bus without the permission of the bus conductor. That is why, Sir, I should say that this Amendment Bill is nothing but a mere formality and I think that all the hon. Members will see clearly that the proposed amendment moved by the two hon. Members from Sohra and Mawkyrwat is the real need and spirit behind the provision of the Land Transfer Act i.e. the lands of the tribals are to be protected. But here is a provision under Article 19, Clause (5) and under that provision there is a word "risk" and therefore we proposed the amendment to avoid such risk and we want to see that it will not be a mere blanket provision. Sir, it is not only for this land of blanket provision, but there may be circumstances and there may be areas even inside our areas for which we will not be reasonable to completely prohibit the transfer of land. Therefore, Sir, this is my suggestion that the Government will examine from time to time and give protection to the land which belongs to the tribal and if this will be done then it will really meet the requirement of the Constitution under Article 19, Clause (5), i.e. to protect the lands of the tribal as per this proposed amendment. Mr. Chairman, Sir, since the motivation of this proposed amendment is the same I feel that Government will  have no hesitation to accept it to make it more effective and more convincing and in this regard the Constitution has provided some provisions for the protection of the backward, week and small tribal population. Sir, as has been expressed on many occasions in this House, if it is taken into account the weakness, the poverty of the people who have nothing else except land either as individual members of the family or clan this protection has been there long before. Here, therefore, it is very simple and very convenient that the Government can examine this Bill within three months' time to find out which areas are reasonable to allow transfer of land under the existing provisions of the principle Act. That will be with the permission of the Government authority. So if the Government will really look into it for the next 30 days they will realise the inadequacy of this provision. This question has been there since 1976 when we had to go to Delhi because of realisation of the inadequacy and ineffectiveness of the existing provisions to protect the tribal people from being exploited especially in matters of land which is the only asset and means of livelihood of the members of the tribal community. Therefore, I strongly support the proposed amendment already moved by the hon. Member from Mawkyrwat and I would suggest to the Government to accept this positive and convenient amendment. I will plead that this is so positive and convenient. Under Paragraph 12 of the Sixth Schedule we find a very inconvenient provision which was not enough. In fact in 1974-75 the C.E.Ms of the District Councils met and made a suggestion to amend the Sixth Schedule to remove that provision, to change it from negative to positive.  That no Act of the Government shall apply to the Autonomous District of Assam save and with the notification of the Governor. This is a very positive step and also a convenient step. Instead the provision says that all Acts shall apply except with the notification of the Governor, then the machinery of the Government shall have to be watchful whether all the provisions of the Acts passed by Parliament should be made applicable to the autonomous tribal areas or not. Thus in that line moved by the C.E.M.s in 1974 this provision is a very convenient one of notify the areas where it shall not be reasonable to prohibit transfer of land. Government will notify as conditions where it shall be reasonable to allow transfer of land from the tribals to the non-tribals. So with these few words I support the amendment proposed by Mr. R. Lyngdoh and I expect the Minister, Revenue, judging these two provisions will change the negative into positive as proposed in the amendment moved by Mr. R. Lyngdoh. These are my pints and I would request the Government to accept this proposed amendment. 

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Revenue) :- May I propose that the other amendment may be moved at the same time and I will reply to both.

Mr. Chairman :- Both the amendments are identical. If this one is disposed of the other amendment will come up again.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh :- We will not speak much on that. Let him move and then we will discuss and the Minister will reply to both.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that in (a), item (A) of Clause 3 be substituted by the following :

        "(A) the full-stop "(.)" at the end of sub-section (1) be deleted and the following be added thereafter :

'and within the areas to be notified by the Government of Meghalaya from time to time.'

        (b) Item (B) be deleted.

Mr. Chairman :- Only the arrangement otherwise the amendment in the same.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, in brining this amendment to the Amendment Bill of the Land Transfer Act, it is the only approach towards our objective in view. I am not a lawyer but I happen to be a law maker. When this Bill becomes a law and law is such a thing that has its own implications.................

Mr. Chairman :- Which is greater, the son or the father.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Sir, it depends on the circumstances. I feel that the approach should be a positive approach and as I said that law is such a thing that has its own implications. I feel that  there should be also nicety of law. In the proviso to the proposed amendment, if you go through proviso (1) and if you read and try to understand, it appears that it has many implications which will be subjected to many interpretations by practising lawyers in the court of law. Therefore, Mr. Chairman, Sir, I bring this amendment to achieve the objective as the hon. member from Nongthymmai in supporting the amendment has said that there are areas in which permission is necessary to allow a tribal to sell his land to a non-tribal in those areas which the  Government may not know from time to time. To be simple and also not to depart from the original Act, the permission and the sanction of the competent authority are necessary under those circumstances which may arise that such lands in those areas, though notified by the Government, should be allowed. Therefore, Mr. Chairman, Sir, this amendment is brought before the House.

Shri Maham Singh (Minister Revenue) :- Mr. Chairman, Sir, as has been pointed out by the hon. member from Nongthymmai, we have been able to pass an Act for the protection of the tribal lands. Under sub-clause(5) of Article 19 of the Constitution, the framers of the Constitution have allowed that there may be reasonable restrictions of the fundamental rights which every citizen of India has got, that is, to move freely throughout the territory of India, to settle in any part of India and to acquire and dispose of property, reasonable restriction in the exercise of any of the rights conferred by sub-clause (5) either in the interest of the general public or for the protection of the interests of the scheduled tribes. The wording that has been used in this sub-clause (5) of Article 19 is reasonable restriction. In this connection, I would draw the attention of the hon. members that we must not forget that the whole State of ours is a tribal State and this Act applies to the whole State. Even at present, no land can be transferred to a non-tribal except with the permission of a competent authority, throughout the whole State except the normal wards  of Shillong. Why this restriction has been allowed. It is allowed because it is for the interest of the scheduled tribes. Therefore, we have brought this clause, that is the proposed proviso, that is the notified areas, transfer of land shall never be allowed from a tribal to a non-tribal or from a non-tribal to a non-tribal even with the permission of the competent authority. In this connection, I would submit before the members of the House that there is nothing negative whatsoever, in the approach of ours. A reference has been made that at present, the measures that have been taken uptil now, are not adequate. The permission required in the transfer of land as provided in the present Act, as was mentioned by the hon. Member from Nongthymmai is a mere formality. But then, Sir, I would submit that the competent authority entrusted with the authority to allow the transfer of land, that duty has been entrusted to no less a person than the C.E.Ms of the District Councils. They are the persons holding responsible posts as we are. They are the persons with the responsibility and holding high offices in the State. But then we find that in spite of all these there may be vulnerable areas in the State in which, for the interest of the tribal people transfer of land should not be allowed whatsoever under any circumstances, from a tribal to a non-tribal. I would not say that the real object of the Act is not only for the protection of the land. We have to look to the interest  of the tribal people. It is not a mere protection of the land. Mr. Chairman, Sir, it is not that we want to close ourselves up in one room with all the doors and windows closed without allowing any part of civilisation to enter from any windows or room. I would submit that while we do not want the doors and windows be freely opened for every person to enter as he likes, but even then this State of ours should not be completely closed to the outside world. It may be dangerous and also against the very interest of the tribal people if we keep ourselves in complete isolation cut off from the rest of the world. Therefore, it is necessary that we should not be too rigid in our laws. The laws should be more or less flexible. If we make the laws too rigid, then in that case. We will find that the people will try to avoid the laws by other means. We have found that if the laws are too rigid, the people try to avoid the laws, factiously evading the spirit of the law being enforced and applied by the Government. What is the real intention of the tribal people that they progress. We are aiming at a progressive society. We aim that our people should progress. They should not be only owners of lands. We cannot expect our people to continue for generations together only to be farmers or cultivators. Mr. Chairman, Sir, we want them to enter in other spheres of  life also. It is with this purpose that I say we have to look to the interest of the tribal people. We want them to enter into other spheres of life also. By having too much rigidly in law in which transfer of land is not allowed from a tribal to a non tribal there may be some difficulty for the tribal people. We find that many of our tribal people have entered into other professions also. They have entered into business, into industries. Previously what I have found in the policy, Mr. Chairman, Sir, is that too much emphasis has been placed on the employment of the people in different industries besides government services. People have also come to me for getting employment here and there. I used to tell them why have you always come only for getting employment in government services and why you do not want to get employment in business and industries in your own land. At present, there is a new approach Mr. Chairman, Sir, in our objective. We want our people to be not only. owners of the lands but we want them also to be owners of industries trades and business in Meghalaya.  We want to see that our people should start to set up small scale industries an such type of industries which could be established in our State. It is not only just to get employment in small scale or big industries set up in our State by people from outside. Therefore, Mr. Chairman, Sir, we cannot make this law too rigid otherwise it will be impossible if it is too rigid for the tribal to transfer his land or mortgage in any form of raising finance to meet his commercial needs. The price of land will also be considerably reduced. We want our people should have also the facility to transfer their land so that they may not find any difficulty in raising finance for investment in their business. There is always a danger in making this law too rigid. The people will otherwise avoid it by other means. Therefore, I would submit that the law as introduced by the Government is more reasonable if we look at the interest of the tribal people. The other day, one hon. Member has started that the Red Indian although kept scheduled in certain places in the United States, even then their number in thinning out, they have become a dying race. It is not only just to preserve the population character of the tribes but what is required is that we want to see that they also progress economically and take up other professions besides becoming owners of lands. So it is necessary that we should introduce a law which is reasonable by taking into consideration all these factors for the protection and progress of our tribal people. So with these few words, I hope the hon. Members will withdraw their amendment. 

(At this stage the Hon'ble Speaker occupied the Chair)

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in fact our proposed amendment to the Bill is quite reasonable and constitutional. Since the Hon. Minister has started that if they want to dispose of the lands because of their progress, then the Government should not have brought this Bill. Our intention is to put a restriction in order to protect the interest of the tribal people, and that is why we have brought these amendments. I would request the Government to accommodate these things. But the Minister has requested us to withdraw with we regret.

Mr. Speaker :- Now let me put the question before the House. The question is that the amendment moved by Mr. R. Lyngdoh be accepted? (The amendment was lost). Now No.2. Let me put the question before the House. The question is that the amendment moved by Mr. S.P. Swer be accepted (the amendment was lost). Now Prof. A. Warjri to move another amendment.

Prof. A. Warjri :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the amendment No.1 and No.2 have not been accepted, I beg not to move my amendment.

Mr. Speaker :- Now since the hon. Members does not move his amendment the amendment stands automatically withdraw. Now let me put the question before the House. The question is that clause 3 as introduced do form part of the Bill. (The motion was carried). Clause 3 do form part of the Bill. Now let us come to Clause 4. Mr. S.P. Swer to move this amendment.

Shri S.P. Swer :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the amendment No.1,2 and 3 have not been accepted, I won't move my amendment.

Mr. Speaker :- Since Mr. Swer refuses to move his amendment, the amendment stands automatically withdrawn. I put the question before the House. The question is that Clause 4 as introduced do form part of the Bill (The motion was carried). Clause 4 as introduced do form part of the Bill. Now let me put the question. The question is that Clauses 4 and 5 along with the Preamble, the Enacting Formula and the Title do form part of the Bill. (The Motion was carried). Thus Clause 1 to 5 and 6 along with the Preamble, the Enacting Formula and the Title of the Bill do form part of the Bill. Now I ask the Minister to move that the Bill be passed. 

Shri Maham Singh (Minister Revenue) :- Sir, I beg to move that the Meghalaya Transfer of Land (Regulation) (Amendment) Bill, 1977 be passed.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Now I put the question before the House. The question is that the Meghalaya Transfer of Land (Regulation) (Amendment) Bill, 1977 be passed. (The motion was carried and the Bill was passed). Now let us pass on item No.5 Minister, Industries.


Laying of Reports

Shri Maham Singh (Minister, Industries) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the Fifth Report of the Meghalaya Industrial Development Corporation Limited.


Motion under Rule 49

Mr. Speaker :- Item No.6. Mr. Jormanik Syiem to move.

Shri Jormanik Syiem :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, this notice was tabled under Sub-rule (1) of Rule 49 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly by us. In my opinion there is some anomaly which needs clarification. In this reply to unstarred question 73 (d) the other day, i.e., On 10th June 1977 the Revenue Ministers  informed the House that the C.E.M. had been authorised to realise fees on application of transfer of land. He has not clarified whether the fees so realised could be credited to the fund of the District Council. I take it that the C.E.M. is the agent of the Government and in that case unless there is some provisions that this fee should go to the District Council fund, I think it should go to the State fund. Otherwise there is a misunderstanding. Or if the District  Council fund is subjected to Government audit there may be audit objections. These are the points on which I need some clarification.

Mr. Speaker :- I think on this matter the Minister had further clarification a later occasion. Also I also directed the Minister to see that this kind of anomaly be avoided. I think the Government will have to do that as those Government cannot function with anomalies.

Shri Maham Singh (Minister Revenue) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, this procedure was adopted ever since the C.E.M. was appointed as the competent authority. I have received a letter from him and I may inform you that the C.E.M. of the Khasi Hills District Council being the competent authority realise fees for services rendered and deposits the same by treasury challans to the District Council fund. So Mr. Speaker, Sir, uptil now the amount has been deposited into the District Council fund. Whether this is regular or not, I would assure the House that this matter will examined by the Government and if it is found irregular then it will be rectified. Now according to Article 266 of the Constitution all  revenues received by the Government of a State and also raised by the Government through the treasury challans on loans and advances and money received by the Government on repayment to the Consolidated Fund have to be deposited into the Consolidated Fund of the State. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in this connection I would submit that with regard to this, the District Council is also a constitutionally constituted body. Now the relationship between the State Government and the District Council is more or less . . .

Mr. Speaker :- I think the Minister has not referred to the real problem the Member has raised. I have already, on the previous occasion, told you as the Minister in charge of Revenue, to see that these fees were realised under the law passed by this House and the Government have appointed the C.E.M. as the competent authority and in this respect the C.E.M. acts as the agent of the State Government. And therefore to which account the fees should be credited to the District Council Fund or to the Consolidated Fund of the State. But in what manner the Government will consider to give to the C.E.M. for the services rendered by him in his capacity as agent to the collection of fees, that aspect would have to be looked into by you. There are some anomalies and I have mentioned that Government should look into this matter. In case the fees are to be credited to the District Council then another delegated power must be placed before the House. I think this needs no further discussion. The Government will look into the matter. Then Mr. Hadem.  He is absent.

        Now before the prorogation of the House, I have just read the proceedings of the House of today and in the speech of Mr. S.N. Koch I have found that he has used the word * * * * which is unparliamentary and I have ordered it to be expunged from the proceedings of the House.


PROPAGATION

        Since there is no other business for the day, I will read out the prorogation order -

"Raj Bhavan, Shillong.

14th June, 1977.

        In exercise of the powers conferred by Clause (2) (a) of Article 174 of the Constitution of India, I, Lallan Prasad Singh, Governor of Meghalaya hereby prorogue the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly at the conclusion of the sitting on the 15th June 1977.

LALLAN PRASAD SINGH,

Governor of Meghalaya."

        The House stands prorogued.

D.S. KHONGDUP,

Dated Shillong

Secretary,

The 15th June, 1977.

Meghalaya Legislative Assembly.