Proceedings of the Meghalaya Legislative Assembly held at 9.30 a.m. on Monday, the 26th June 1978 with the Speaker in the chair.

Mr. Speaker :- Let us start the business of the day by taking up unstarred questions.

                                                                                                                                                                                            

UNSTARRED QUESTIONS

        (To which replies were laid on the Table)

        Construction of the Umpung-Mawpud Road

Shri B. Wanniang  asked :

14. Will the Minister in charge of P.W.D. be pleased to state -

(a) When was the construction work of the Umpung Mawpud Road started and how many kilometres have been completed till date ?

(b) The remaining length of the road yet to be constructed ?

Shri Y.F. Lyngdoh (Minister in charge of P.W.D.)  replied :

14. (a)- Construction work was started during the year 1973-74.

Formation works of 2'60 Km is almost completed.

(b)- The remaining length of the Umpung-Mawpud Road is 9.40 Km.

        Acquisition of the Jakrem Hot Spring Area

Shri B. Wanniang asked :

15. Will the Minister in charge of Tourism be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether it is a fact the Government intends to acquire the Jakrem Hot Spring area ?

        (b)- If so, the total area of land to be acquired ?

        (c) At what rate per sq. metre the compensation is to be paid ?

Shri E. Iawphniaw ?(Minister in charge of Tourism) replied:

15.   (a)-Yes.

        (b)-6631 sq. metres.

        (c)- The department is still negotiating with the land owners so that an agreeable rate is arrived at with due consideration to the relevant rate availing under existing laws for land acquisition.

Water supply scheme at Mawlai

Shri B. Wanniang asked :

16. Will the Minister in charge of Public Health Engineering be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether the Government intend to permit private water supply connection to residents of Mawlai ?

        (b) If so, when will the works be taken up ?

        (c) If not, the reasons thereof ?

        (d) Whether the Government is going to relay the distribution line to meet the private connection ?

        (e) If not, the reasons thereof ?

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister in charge of P.H.E.)  replied :

16. (a)- Yes.

        (b)- The work will be taken immediately after obtaining sanction from the State Government.

        (c)- Does not arise.

        (d)-Yes.

        (e)-Does not arise.

Shri Ledishon Nongsiang :- By which State Government Mr. Speaker Sir ?

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister in charge of P.H.E.) :- By the Meghalaya State Government.

Fire incident at Killing Village

Shri S. Kalwing asked :

17. Will the Minister in charge of Revenue be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether the Government is aware of the fire incident on 21st March 1978 at Killing Village ?

        (b) Whether the departmental enquiry was made into this ?

        (c) If so, what relief has been extended by the Government so far to the fire victims ?

Shri M.N. Majaw (Minister Revenue)  replied :

17. (a)-Yes.

        (b)-Yes.

        (c)- Rupees 3,400 has been sanctioned as gratuitous relief to the 34 affected families. Some families who left the village after the fire incident have been instructed to report to the Sub-Divisional Officer's office, Nongpoh on their return to Killing to receive gratuitous relief.

Shri Ledishon Nongshon :- I would like to ask the Minister in charge whether there is any other relief such as test relief and other works beside this Rs.3,400.00 ?

Shri M.N. Majaw (Minister Revenue) :- Test relief is being examined by the Department, but in the meantime, as the reply will show, only half the people are there. They have been asked to submit their applications for relief loans of Rs.500 per family, but no application has been received so far.

Shri Ledishon Nongsiang :- No. 17 (b) Mr. Speaker, Sir. When where the enquiries made ?

Shri M.N. Majaw (Minister Revenue):- Within 3 days of the incident. I may remind the House, at that time, the House was in Session when we were in formed the matter. Our Departmental report as a matter of fact states that a number of houses were vacant at the time when the fire took place. However, in view of the fact that there were some owners of the houses, Government allotted Rs.100 for each family to all the 34 families and the enquiry also shows that many of these people have left the place subsequently.

Shri S. Kalwing :- No.17 Mr. Speaker, Sir, is it a fact as stated in the answer, that some families left the village because of their lack of accommodation as the Minister did not provide them ?

Mr. Speaker :- That is a new question.

Shifting of the office of the Executive Engineer, P.W.D., Tura

Shri P.G. Momin asked :

18. Will the Minister in charge of P.W.D. (R&B)  be pleased to state the reasons for not shifting the office of the Executive Engineer, P.W.D. (R&B) Tura East Division from Tura to Williamnagar up till now ?

Shri Y.F. Lyngdoh (Minister in charge of P.W.D. (R&B)  replied :

13- Shifting of the office of the Executive Engineer. P.W.D. (R&B) Tura East Division from Tura to Williamnagar could not be done as contemplated for want of accommodation, both for the office and staff at Williamnagar.

Saitsama Water Supply Scheme

Shri Albin Lamare asked :

19. Will the Minister in charge of Public Health Engineering be pleased to state -

        (a) The estimated amount sanctioned for the water supply scheme at Saitsama in Jaintia Hills ?

        (b) The date of executing the scheme ?

        (c) The expected date of completion of the scheme ?

        (d) The total amount spent in 1977-78 ?

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister in charge, of P.H.E.)  relied :

19 (a)-Rupees 4,19,800.

    (b) 22nd March, 1976.

    (c) March, 1980.

    (d) Rupees 90,257.

Ummulong Water Supply Scheme

Shri Albin Lamare asked :

20. Will the Minister in charge of Public Health Engineering be pleased to state -

        (a) The estimatesd amount sanctioned for the Ummulong Water Supply Scheme in Jaintia Hills ?

        (b) The date of executing the scheme ?

        (c) The total expennditure so far incured in implementing the scheme ?

        (d) The outstanding bill to be paid to the contractors?

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister in charge P.H.E.) replied :

20' (a)-Rupees 1,89,900.

        (b)-30th March, 1976.

        (c)- Rupees 206,458.57p.

        (d)-Nil.

Riangdo Water Supply Scheme

Shri H.L. Nongsiang asked :

21. Will the Minister in charge of Public Health Engineering be pleased to state-

        (a) Whether it is a fact that the water supply schemes at Riangdo was sanctioned and tender was so called for accordingly ?

        (b) If so, when will the work be started ?

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister in charge P.H.E.)  replied :

21. (a)- Riangdo Water Supply scheme was not sanctioned so far. But tender was called in anticipation of Government sanction to expedite the work

        (b)- The work will be started immediately after sanction.

Mawkawah-Nongstoin Water Supply Scheme

Shri H.L. Nongsiang  asked :

22. Will the Minister in charge of Public Health Engineering be pleased to state-

        (a) Whether it is a fact that water supply scheme for Mawkawah-Nongstoin was sanctioned that the tender was called for on 5th March 1978 ?

        (b) If so, when will the work started?

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister in charge, PHE) replied :

22. (a)- The Mawkawah Nongstoin Water supply scheme was not sanctioned so far. But the tender was called in anticipation of Government sanction to expedite the work.

       (b)- The work will be started immediately after Government sanction. 

Shri Ledishon Nongsiang :- No.22 (b). I would like to know when the sanction will be made Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister, P.H.E.) :- The process of sanction is in progress Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Bholaganj Water Supply Scheme

Shri S.P. Swer asked :

23. Will the Minister in charge of Public Health Engineering be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether Government propose to implement the Bholaganj Water Supply Scheme during the current financial year ?

        (b) If so, what is the estimated amount ?

        (c) If not, the reason thereof ?

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister in charge, PHE) replied :

23. (a)-Yes.

        (b)- Rupees 5,34,600.

        (c)-Does not arise.

Shella-Bholaganj Development Block

Shri S.P. Swer asked :

24. Will the Minister in charge of Agriculture and Veterinary be pleased to State when will Government provide a Veterinary Extension Officer/Veterinary Doctor for the Shella-Bholaganj Development Block ?

DR. B. PAKEM (Minister, Agriculture and Veterinary)  replied :

24. Within this year.

Agricultural Extension Officer 

Shri S.P. Swer asked :

25. Will the Minister in charge of Agriculture be pleased to state -

        (a) The name of the Agricultural Extension Officer posted at Shella-Bholaganj Development Block.

        (b) The total length of service of the incumbent in the same block mentioned at (a) above ?

        (c) Whether the incumbent is qualified for the post ?

DR. B. PAKEM (Minister, Agriculture) replied :

25. (a)- Shri M. Gladstone Giri.

        (b)-About 8 years as Agricultural Extension Officer.

        (c)- Yes, by virtue of his experience and training. 

Construction of the Tyrso Valley Irrigation Project

Shri S.P. Swer asked :

26. Will the Minister in charge of Agriculture be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether the construction of the Tyrso Valley Irrigation Project is in progress ?

        (b) If so, when will it be commission ?

        (c) If not, the reason thereof ?

DR. B. PAKEM (Minister, Agriculture) replied :

26. (a)-No.

(b)- No specific date can be given now.

(c)- The contractor has raise certain claims which the department could not concede. There is a statement on this issue and the contractor has suspended the works. All efforts are being made to settle the issue expeditiously.

Veterinary Dispensaries in Garo Hills

Shri MUKUL DAS  asked :

27. Will the Minister in charge Agriculture and Animal Husbandry be pleased to state -

        (a) The number of Veterinary Dispensaries in West and East Garo Hills ?

        (b) The number of such Dispensaries attached to Community Development Blocks in West and East Garo Hills ?

        (c) The number of Veterinary Aid Centres in West and East Garo Hills ?

        (d) Whether there is any proposal for establishing any Veterinary Aid Centre at Sibbari ?

        (e) If so, when can it be expected to be implemented ?

Dr. B. PAKEM (Minister in charge Animal Husbandry and Veterinary)  replied :

27. (a)- There are 16 (sixteen) Veterinary Dispensaries in West and East Garo Hills.

        (b)- Ten numbers of Veterinary Dispensaries are attached to the Blocks.

        (c)- There are 11 (eleven) Veterinary Aid centres in East and West Garo Hills.

        (d)-No.

        (e)-Does not arise.

Central Assistance for Irrigation

Shri MUKUL DAS replied :

28. Will the Minister in charge of Agriculture be pleased to state - 

        (a) Whether there is any scheme on Central help for irrigation of land in border areas of Garo Hills

        (b) If so, when can the work be started ?

DR. B. PAKEM (Minister, Agriculture)  replied :

28. (a)- No.

        (b)- Does not arise.

Tura Milk Supply Scheme

Shri MANIK DAS asked :

29. Will the Minister in charge of Agriculture and Veterinary be pleased to state -

        (a) Whether the Government is aware of the fact that a site has been selected at Ganol near Tura for the proposed Tura Milk Supply Scheme ? 

        (b) If so, when does Government propose to start the construction work ?

        (c) If not, the reason thereof ?

DR. B. PAKEM  (Minister, Agriculture and Veterinary) replied :

29. (a)-Yes.

        (b)- Work has already started in the year 1977-78.

        (c)- Does not arise in view of (b) above.

Shri P.G. Marbaniang :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, you are too fast in shifting one from another. As we have not been provided with these questions in advance we cannot put supplementary questions. 

Mr. Speaker :- Were you not provided with these questions in  advance at home? These questions were placed on the Table of the House half an hour before the start of the session, and if you are interested, you could have come here at that time. But I saw you just now. But you came the House had already started. Anyway, I will give you one chance, just for today. You can ask any supplementary from unstarred question No. 23 onwards if you have any.

Shri P.G. Marbaniang :- But I have come here form the beginning Mr. Speaker, Sir.

                                                                                                                                             

VOTING ON DEMANDS FOR GRANTS

Mr. Speaker :- Let us pass un to item No. 2. Deputy Chief Minister to move Grant No. 25. 

Shri S.D. Khongwir (Deputy Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that a sum not exceeding Rs. 9,71,000 including the sum already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending, the 31st march 1979, for the administration of the head - "267-Aid Materials and Equipments".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved and since there is no cut motion, I put the question. The question is that a sum  not exceeding Rs. 9,71,000 including the sum already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending, the 31st march 1979, for the administration of the head - "267-Aid Materials and Equipments".

        (The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

Now the Deputy Chief Minister to move Grant No. 26. 

Shri S.D. Khongwir (Deputy Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that a sum not exceeding Rs. 5,000 including the sum already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending, the 31st march 1979, for the administration of the head "268-Miscellaneous General Services, Pre-partition Payments, State Lotteries and Pension for Distinguished Services".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. The question is that  a sum not exceeding Rs. 5,000 including the sum already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending, the 31st march 1979, for the administration of the head "268-Miscellaneous General Services, Pre-partition Payments, State Lotteries and Pension for Distinguished Services".

        (The motion was carried and grant No.26 was passed)

Now the Minister, Health to move Grant No. 27.

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister, Health etc.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that a sum not exceeding Rs. 3,07,92,000 including the sum already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending, the 31st march 1979, for the administration of the heads "280-Medical, 281-Family Welfare and 282-Public health, Sanitation and Water Supply-A- Public Health and Sanitation".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. I have received a cut motion which stands in the name of Shri B.K. Roy. Now Mr. B.K. Roy to move his cut motion.

Shri B.K. Roy :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 3,07,92,000 under Grant No. 27, major head "280-Medical", Minor head V-Other Health Schemes, at page 266 of the Budget be reduced to Re.1 i.e., the amount of the whole grant of Rs.3,07,92,000 do stand reduced to Re.1.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. You can start the discussion.

Shri B.K. Roy :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, while moving the cut motion I want to make it clear at the very outset that I am not at all opposing the basic policy of giving medical relief to the Government employees and their dependents. What I am opposed to is the manner in which this relief is given to the employees. Sir, the Contributory Health Scheme was formulated initially with the noble object to give maximum medical benefits to the employees but the execution of the policy, Mr. Speaker, Sir, has come to a complete failure to achieve that end. The scheme has become actually a paradise of racketeers and the vast majority is deprived of the benefit while only a small section of unscrupulous people making a racket are deriving the benefit out of it and depleting our State Exchequer in a very candestine manner. First of all how the scheme has failed. the very idea of giving relief through a group of doctors employed by the Government is wrong. the Government make a distinction between the Government doctors and doctors who are practicing in the field or who are in private general practices. You will understand, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that in the whole world except perhaps the Communist bloc the place of the General medical practitioners or the family doctors is still very high in maintaining the health of the Community. That is why, Sir, the family doctor becomes a part and parcel of the welfare of a family taking part in joys and sorrows of a family and some sort of a faith of a particular family develops in the family doctor and the doctor in turn gives out the maximum service not only to sustain the faith but also in the process replenishes his knowledge in medicine. Thus we find a big section of family doctors in the field of medical profession have excelled themselves in the field of medicine and in creating a special status in the society. But by promoting this Contributory Health Service scheme as it stands to day the Government has branded them as unreliable even in matters of certification of a medical bill for the purpose of reimbursement. I am constrained to say Mr. Speaker, Sir, that they are in the eye of the Government an unreliable lot of people. Are they not distinguished doctors of profession, are they not qualified medical graduates or post graduates ? I many States Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government do acknowledge the certification by general practitioner and do not believe in limiting the whole thing to a group of people called the Government doctors or doctor under the Contributory Health Scheme. The procedure as followed in our State has helped in creating a racket. The whole axis has been formed between a set of scrupulous persons of my own profession, some dishonest traders and some of the Government employees who have become well, practices as to how to get the bill inflated or to make a false bill in a clandestine manner. The members of all sections this House will agree with me if they visualise the picture I am presenting. The false vouchering is a regular process and it is impossible for any machinery to detect it. I am in this profession for 34 years and after rendering service for 34 years, I know what is the not lying behind it. As a social worker I discussed on many occasions with the authorities to find out appropriate method to check false vouchering. But it is almost impossible to bring to book the offenders. Those are unscrupulous Government employees who know the particular batch number of medicine that is current in the market at a particular period. They know the date of expiry of a particular batch of medicine : they also know that the medicines that are reimbursable. They simply go with the list of medicines to the druggist asking them how much percentage they would take for false vouchers. Suppose they have got a list of the value of Rs. 100, the percentage offered to the druggist would be Rs.25 or Rs.30-. Then with the cash memo they go to those doctors who are privileged as the authorities for certification and  after paying certain fees to the doctor concerned, they present the bill to the department concerned. the major benefit........

Mr. Speaker :- Did they only sign and not make prescription ?

Shri B. K. Roy :- They make prescription also. it does not require more than one or two minutes to make a complete bill with prescription. The employees thus gets a profit of Rs.60 out of Rs.100 and the traders concerned are benefited and also the unscrupulous Government doctors are benefited, the loser is the State Government. The other loser is the genuine person who cannot pass through this ordeal. Mr. Speaker, Sir, for a small bill of rs.10 or 15 incurred for medical treatment of his family, the genuine suffer does not like to pass through this or deal as provided by the contributory health scheme and for the benefit of Rs.10 or 15 if he cannot afford to pay Rs.5 to the authorised doctor he is deprived of the benefit. Thus is this way, the vast majority of the an genuine sufferers do not get the benefit. I assure you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is not a speech for opposition' sake which I am narrating in details because many of the hon. members here may not know as to what is the actual state of affairs prevailing in  this sphere of the medical department. The members must put their hearths and heads together to get rid of the evil. This is the reason, Mr. Speaker, Sir, you must be noticing that there are mushroom growth of drugs shops all over the town while the genuine prospect of profit is this business is only 8% under the new Drugs Control Act. How can a small drug shop have a viability in the normal process, is not known to me for 34 years. A Drug shop has to maintain a qualified pharmacist, a sales man and perhaps some more aides there must be an attached doctor to promote the sales and the shop owner in turn has to look after the advantage of hic chamber. With such a heavy load and having only 8% profit the drug shop cannot run. But this Contributory Health Scheme or the medical benefit through the Government process as it exist today help these small shops thrive in an unfair way. With a real sale of medicine worth Rs.500 a day these traders just by signing false vouchers gain a lot. This is how some traders are making the business today affecting the profession itself. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry to state a sad state of affairs which many of my members must have experienced. if a person goes to Civil Hospital he has to first get a slip from the out-patient department then he has to wait for the doctor in a long queue. The doctor in charge is more busy with the signing of bill then attending the real patients. The kitty from signing of bills is divided from bottom to top in the Civil Hospital. it is small fee of Rs.5 per bill. But at the end of the day it comes to Rs.200 or 300 in the total pool and the group of doctors divide the money among themselves. Perhaps these poor doctors are also deprived of a reasonable pay structure is unattended by our State government. So they resort to private chambers in the drug shops for regular hours where again you will find the voucher seeking persons lining in queue. How can these people render a real service to the ailing people for which this is called a noble profession as such ? If you permit me, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will cite one instance which took place only the day before yesterday. A boy by the name of Shri Rajendra Sarma, the son of Shri J.N. Sarma, an Advocate here in Shillong Bar. 

Mr. Speaker :- You better not mention the person.

Shri B.K. Roy :- And there was another youngmen with him who happens to be the son of a very important person, an Ex-M.P. from Assam. This is how the incident took place  At 5.45 p.m. near the Ward Lake these two youngmen were assaulted by a group of people. They were taken to the Civil Hospital. One of them loss his two frontal teeth, had four stitches in lip and some injections. And with black eyes and bleeding wounds he was sent back home as it was considered that it is only a minor injury. But actually, the person was in a semi-conscious condition and I was told that he had been sent back from the hospital because it was a case of minor injury. While these doctors are meant for giving real human service absolutely ignoring any other considerations they could not escape the wave that is prevalent these days. If you permit me to say, I will define what is a grievous injury. If an injury causes loss of limbs, permanent damage to any vital organ, permanent disfiguration  loss of sight, hearing, etc. etc., or if of such severity that the victim has to be confined to bed for 21 days it is a grievous injury. Sir, the doctor concerned has satisfied himself by avoiding confinement in hospital for 21 days an ignoring all other factors. Shri P.R. Kyndiah, Minister, Industries knows about this case. He went personally to this house. I was told he has seen the youngman in a semi-conscious State. The Chief Minister was informed about the incident. The mother of the other boy who is an Ex-M.P. has also been concerned with the incident. I have described in my Budget Speech, Mr. Speaker, Sir, about the working in the Civil Hospital. The Minister concerned did not give any specific reply about it. The people will naturally asked why the Minister was discretely silent in the matter. Even in the matter of supply of commodities to the hospital, like surgical instruments, medicines and other accessories or supply of ration and other things these are gross irregularities.

        Therefore, I urge upon the Minister, Health through you, Sir, to go into the matter thoroughly and to see it properly and if need be, I demand that a probe committee be formed comprising of some members of this House to go into the anomalies that are prevailing in the hospital in the matter of supply of ration and accessories....

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the cut motion is on medical relief to the Government employees.

Mr. Speaker :- It is a general policy cut although it has been specifically mentioned on that point.

Dr. B. K. Roy :- Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I understand that it is a very sensitive question and it might have caused some annoyance to the Minister in charge. But it is a matter of great public importance and that is why I cannot help speaking about it. I have nothing to say against the Civil Hospital as such. In fact, we intend to raise up the standard of this  hospital because I am also of the opinion that we should raise it to the status of the State Hospital. It should be streamline inside and outside. One Lower Division Assistant in charge of diet who is called the diet clerk, if he forms an axis with the Head Assistant who is his relative right upto the Superintendent and is the supplier of the same ration and can even buy an ambassador car, will not the Government think where from he gets his wealth ?

Mr. Speaker :- Inheritance.

Dr. B. K. Roy :- That is a very important point but that too needs examination. I put that question the other day, but it has not been replied to. This  must be probed right from the bottom to the top. I demand that a probe made into this affair. The discipline that is to be observed in respect of medical service is equally important as in case of maintaining financial discipline. Sir, I appeal again  before giving my suggestion as to what should be the approach of the whole House both this side and that side to the question of medical service which is a part and parcel of our social life for upbringing the health of the community. The matter has to be viewed not from the party spirit but with the spirit of human approach. I appeal to the Minister not to give his reply on this question just to safeguard the wrong deeds. On many occasions I discussed with the high ups of the department like Secretary, Medical, the D.H.S. and the Drug Inspector. The Secretary, Medical, once told me about a year that the matter of reimbursement discussed in the conference of all Medical Secretaries and there was a decision that the medical reimbursement must be done away with. That was the general principle adopted. He also gave me hope that in our State also within no time that policy may be adopted. But up till now, nothing has been done although in our neighbouring State-Assam, more than a year now they have adopted the policy of doing away with unlimited reimbursement scheme but giving a lumpsum allowance on slab basis. From the financial point of view, I have found that it does not make extra strain on our State exchequer. Here we have found that an amount of Rs.3 lakhs and and odd has been put under C.H.S. but the real finance involved may be of the order of Rs.30 to 40 lakhs or more. The break-up of the amount under the major head "280-Medical" is not even available from the A.G's office because this is a grouped under other allowances like T.A. & D.A. etc. I tried to verify from the department......

Mr. Speaker :- Are you sure ?

Dr. B. K. Roy :- Yes, Sir. Even the Secretary, Finance said that it is very difficult to find out the departmental provision as this does not come under the C.H.S. alone. As the lumpsum provision is put under the head "allowances", nobody can make head or tail of it. Now in this matter of ascertaining the exact position, the Drug Inspector Mr. Shullai......

Mr. Speaker :- You need not mention the name.  DR. B.K. ROY : The Drug Inspector is found to be one of the most honest officers that I have come across. He sought for my co-operation even while I was not elected to this House and I was only a social worker. I went along with him to see how we could undo this racket. He could not detect because it is such a process that the bill with regular vouchers and authorisation by Doctors and from hundred of shops comes to the departments. It is impossible for any human being to detect any forgery in it. It may be mentioned that if all bills are sent through one channel it can be detected only by somebody who means business and who is as efficient as the officer I have just mentioned. I suggest even then that this process should be done away with an instead a specific medical benefit as is granted in other States not effect the exchequer nor the incumbent as in the case of contributory health scheme the incumbent has to contribute something. My concrete suggestion is that it should be a blanket medical allowance of Rs. 20 per head irrespective of any official status. How can there be difference between the cost of treatment incurred by a fourth grade employee and the Secretary to the Government because medicines carry the same value, so also the value of life is the same and the medicine does not make any difference in its action between man and man. So under this scheme, I do not want to categories on the basis of how much pay a Government employee is drawing. But it should be the same beginning from top to bottom when we are thinking to set up a socialistic pattern of society. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have to mention one more point. Besides this Rs.20 p.m. I would suggest that all the cases which are hoispitalised or the cases which are referred to a specialised hospital in the State our outside the State will be fully reimbursed. That is the approved right of any Government employee and he should not be deprived of this right in any manner. In the end, while making the cut motion particularly in the medical reimbursement I appeal to this Government with a non-partisan attitude to give facilities to the medical employees in an adequate manner and to promote the medical profession as a whole. I myself belong to medical profession. I understand the difficulties of fellow professionals better. The Government has to resort to all possible means and ways to promote their service status. With these words, I thank you, Sir.

Mr. Speaker :- Now, will the Minister in charge to reply. In so far as your reply is concerned, you may reply only to the points raised in the Cut Motion here. To the other points outside the Cut Motion which are allowed for discussion I feel, that if you are ready to reply, you can do so. But if you are not ready you may confine only to the points raised in the Cut Motion.

Shri Johndeng Pohrmen (Minister, Health, etc) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the first place , I think it is my duty to express my sincere appreciation to the hon. Member, Shri B.K. Roy who has brought this cut Motion in this morning's sitting. This is a very important subject about which he has touched certain points regarding not only how the medical relief was given to the employees but also medical profession. If I remember his last few words, when he feel that it was indeed very unfortunate that he should have belonged to the medical profession because of the corrupt practice as alleged by him in connection with the working of the Contributory Health Service Scheme. But Mr. Speaker, Sir, I feel that with due respect to the medical professionals, they have been doing quite a noble cause in trying to help the poor suffering people. Well, to this day, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we from this side, from the Government side, have not heard any complaints against any doctor who has been authorised to look after the bills of the Government employees who went for certification in order to get the reimbursement. Any way, I would be happy if the hon. member had brought forward any specific instance so that necessary enquiry would be made and if the complaint is proved to be true, necessary action would be taken. But unfortunately, as I said earlier, to this day Government have not received any complaint from any corner regarding such cases. Well Mr. Speaker, I am happy, at the outset, that the hon. member who moved the Cut Motion has opposed the basic policy of giving medical relief to the Government employees. I do not know whether the hon. Member is aware of the fact that he is not consistent with his stand when he pointed to so many lapses while criticising the policy of the scheme, (Interruption), I am still on my feet Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Mover of the Cut Motion in fact, realises it very well that the idea of the Contributory Health Services Scheme is to give medical benefit to the employees and yet he himself criticised it so nicely to the extent that he said it is only a means to a racket. Well, as I said, our doctors too are human being. But I feel that the doctors, including the hon. Member who moved the Cut Motion and who happened to be a doctor, are honourable people and I believe that in spite of the fact that they are human beings, they have been trying their level best to see that the patients get the maximum relief from them. With regard to this Contributory Health Service Scheme, I must say that this type of scheme is one of the best, I should say, one of the best in the country. It is very correct that the hon. member had pointed out that our neighbouring State of Assam has done away with the scheme since 1976, if I am not mistaken, and they have given a flat rate of Rs.12 to Rs.16 per month medical allowance to the Government employees depending upon the number of employees they have that is Rs.12 to Rs.16 per month medical allowance to the Government employees depending upon the number of employees they have, that is Rs.12 per month  for the employees whose number of dependants is 4 including the employees himself or herself and Rs.16 per month for the employees whose number of dependents is more than 4 including the employees himself or herself. Well Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like the House to ponder a little  whether this scheme which has been adopted by the Government of Assam will really be a relief to the Government employees. We know that we have got three schemes in order to give relief to the Government employees. One is called the General Treatment Rules under which free medical treatment to the Government employees is available. Medicines which are not available in the Government hospitals and have to be purchased from outside by the Government employees are reimbursed and only those medicines which are not reimbursed in the Government hospitals are being met by the patient. In cases where the required medical treatment facilities are not available in the Government Hospital in the State, these are referred to the hospitals outside the State and Government pays the expenditure including the T.A. for the journeys. Then there is the Liberalised Medicine treatment benefit rule. Under this rule a family member or dependant of a Government employee is entitled to free medical treatment and such facilities are available to the Government employees. if medicines are not available in that hospital and if purchased from outside and if such medicines are reimbursed and are admissible for reimbursement they are reimbursed by Government. that is why this Contributory health Service had come under heavy fire to day. this scheme is made available only to the Government employees stationed in  Shillong only.

        At present in fact we are of the opinions that this scheme should be extended to other district headquarters also like Tura, Jowai and even Nongstoin because we feel that this is better than the scheme that has been adopted by the Government of Assam. This is a scheme , as I said, concerning the employees posted at Shillong only who are members of the scheme and who are on deputation from Government of Assam and other State Governments their family members and their dependents too are entitled to medical treatment in Government hospital and contributory health scheme centres and we had three centres in Shillong, one at Police Bazar, the other at Laban and the other at Laitumkhrah. If treatment cannot be done here, the cases are referred to hospitals outside the State and all expenditure including T.A. for the journeys are reimbursed. Well as I said, it is very unfortunate that the hon. member had also referred to the case that took place last Saturday when he said that a certain boy had been assaulted and was badly injured. He charged the Government that the boy was not properly treated that he was discharged because the doctor was busy in signing the bills for reimbursement. I do not know how far I could believe this that the doctor would be so heartless to discharge him when the particular boy had four stitches in his nose and perhaps two teeth had been knocked out. Even I will not be so heartless as not to feel for such a person. But as far as I know the boy's name is Sarma, was properly attended to and if the hon. member could not believe this he could verify after the session. I could tell you that the boy is under proper treatment and would be discharged very soon. Then Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. member had said that the doctors have no time to attend to outdoor patients in the Civil Hospital as they were busy signing bills for reimbursement. I used to go and visit some patients in the Civil Hospital. So far as I have not had the pleasure of seeing even once that long queue waiting for the doctor who was busy in signing the bills for reimbursement. There have been authorised doctors who run clandestine trade in connection with certifying bills for reimbursement. I am grateful to the hon. Member but I would request him through you Mr. Speaker, Sir, that he should bring this in black and white to the notice of the department so that necessary enquiries could be made and drastic action taken if such complaints is found and proved true. Then there has been a charge here and there is a big racket while describing the procedure of having this clandestine trade in practice that the Government employees are taking part in the play called racket and false vouchers have been produced. These are very serious allegations and I would humbly request him through you Mr. Speaker, Sir, to kindly give us in writing specific instances so that necessary action can be taken in this regard but uptil now we have not heard any such complaint. Then Mr. Speaker, Sir, we had allowed the hon. member to move the cut motion but he has pointed out to the supply department of the Civil Hospital. In that too there has been a racket so much so that a mere L.D. Assistant could use and possess an ambassador car. Perhaps it may be through inheritance that the particular incumbent have managed to possess an ambassador car but why should we envy if the person had such a thing. However we would be grateful if the hon. member could tell us that this particular incumbent an L.D. Assistant has possess an ambassador  car by false means by resorting to corrupt practices in his service as an L.D. Assistant so that necessary action can be taken against him. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think I have more or less touched all the relevant point though it is a very difficult subject for a person like me, a layman because it deals mainly with things medically.

Mr. Speaker :- You are a Minister.

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister health) :- I feel that I have been trying to touch most of the points that the hon. member had referred in this cut motion and I hope that whatever explanation and clarification I am trying to give he would be satisfied and I request him to kindly withdraw his cut motion.

Shri B.K. Roy :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is unfortunate that the Hon'ble Minister had viewed my contention in a different perspective. I did not blame the Government for pursuing a wrong policy in so far as giving relief to the employees is concerned. I did not question the erstwhile Assam Government in formulating this policy of Contributory Health Scheme. My main point was that the manner in which it is working is disastrous Mr. Speaker, Sir. But the way the Minister was replying indicate, that he was disposing the whole matter in a routine way as if in respect of anything that was represented by the Opposition Members, he is supposed to defend his Government. So I put it to the good sense of the House to go into all the aspects of the question and do away with this evil. he even went to the extent of saying that in so far as this complaint is concerned, which goes against the prestige of the medical profession which indicates a discrepancy in the working of the Civil Hospital, I should make a specific complaint or that I should go and find out whether any particular incumbent ....

Mr. Speaker :- I do not think you are satisfied or otherwise you do not have to counter charge his argument if you are satisfied with his reply. You may ask for his clarification or you can just withdraw your cut motion or insist on division.

Shri B.K. Roy :- I have only two sentences to make. The reply of the Minister is not satisfactory. But my main idea is to put to the good sense of the House some fact to give a thought over and find out if there is any way out of this malady ? The remedy will not be by working as a policeman. With this observation, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I regretfully withdraw my cut motion in spite of the fact that I still not satisfied.

Mr. Speaker :- Has the Hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his cut motion ?

(Voices - Yes, Yes),

        The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn.

        Now let me put the main question before the House. The question is that a sum not exceeding Rs.3,07,92,000 including the sum already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st march, 1979 for the administration of the head "280-Medical,281-Family Welfare and 282-Public health, Sanitation and Water Supply-A-Public Health and Sanitation".

        (The motion was carried the demand was passed).

        Now the Minister, Public health to move grant No.28.

Shri John Deng Pohrmen (Minister, Public Health) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that a  sum not exceeding Rs.3,23,50,000 including the sum already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st march, 1979 for the administration of the heads "282-Public health, Sanitation and Water Supply, 283-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings, 482-Capital Outlay on Public Health, Sanitation and Water Supply and 682-Loans for Public health, Sanitation and Water Supply".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Here I have received one cut motion by Mr. D.N. Joshi. Will Mr. Joshi move ?

Shri D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs.3,20,50,000 under grant No.28, major Head "282-Public Health Sanitation and Water Supply-B-Sewerage and Water Supply". at page 319 of the Budget be reduced to Rs.1, i.e. the amount of the whole grant of Rs.3,20,50,000 do stand reduced to Re.1.

        (At this stage the Hon'ble Speaker left the Chamber the hon'ble Deputy Speaker occupied the Chair).

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Now you can initiate a discussion.

* Shri D. N. Joshi :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, here in this House many hon. members including myself have brought a question by way of discussions and debates on the working of this Department which is responsible mainly for public health and sanitation and water supply. Sir, we in Meghalaya and the entire world know our State is an abode of the clouds and we call it by the name of "Meghalaya". But here in Meghalaya which is known to be the wettest place in the world, there is dearth of drinking water. Meghalaya consists of a population of 11 to 12 lakhs but Sir, there is scarcity of water everywhere. Every hon. Member of this august House and all the people living in the State know that though there is water every where but there is not a single drop  of water to drink. "Water, water, everywhere, but not a single drop of water to drink" especially here in Shillong. Sir, the water supply scheme was taken up long ago by the then British Government for a population of 50,000. But water problem is still there. No substantial improvement is made in the matter of water supply scheme which is already there. No tangible result could be achieved in this scheme so far to meet the growing population which is not nearly five times the original population for which water supply Schemes was first intended. Now, Sir, through persistent demands by several members in this House in different Sessions and through persistent demands from the public outside this House, this water supply scheme was taken up for further tapping the sources of water to supply water to the Greater Shillong, I mean the Shillong Municipality, Cantonment and the suburbs which are included in Greater Shillong. The Government took up certain scheme of Greater Shillong water supply  scheme many years ago and plans were made, surveys conducted negotiations with the public leaders of the locality where the reservoirs were to be constructed were carried out. Money was spent to the tune of more than a crore in purchasing pipes, big pipes, to carry water from the source for the reservoirs. Money was  spent for survey work and planning work and the people of Shillong thought that the time is not very far when each house-hold in Shillong and the suburbs will get enough of water to meet their daily requirements together with enough of water for flushing, besides washing clothes and latrines. Because each and every house hold of Shillong who are now having service latrines for want of water thought that they would convert them into sanitary latrine when there will be enough of water supply. But to our dismay, Sir, after spending a very considerable amount of money and also spending a very valuable time, several years, only for planning unnecessarily buying materials when the scheme was never taken up. Now the Government thought it proper to execute the scheme already formulated and taken up by the previous Government and abandoned the schemes and immediately after that the Government has come up with a declaration that  a new scheme in a new site has taken up for the proposed supply of water to Greater Shillong. The scheme which has since been abandoned had been formulated and taken up, the proposed cost assessed, proper site has been properly surveyed and it took along time, as may as 6 years, and I am afraid with the announcement of taking up a new site entirely a new site for the proposed source of water to Greater Shillong even a longer period of time take for the scheme to materialise because the announcement as made by the Ministers leads us to believe that the proposed source of water is a double the distance from the source of the abandoned scheme and therefore, I am afraid that the time to be consumed for the proper execution of the work and actual supply of water to Greater Shillong will be doubtly delayed. And the money which our Government in their zeal have spent for the abandoned scheme has gone forever from the State exchequer, from the State which is very poor and not in a position to squander away even a single pie for the whim of some people who are supposed to be of the know of the things, who are supposed to execute the work of the benefit of the common people. So I urge upon the Government Sir, to see that the new scheme which they have proposed to take up for the supply of drinking water as well as water for other purposes to the house holds of Shillong, should be taken up as soon as possible and actual supply of water made without any further delay. I had occasions to meet the Hon'ble Minister in charge of Public Health and Sanitation who had talked with me and I was encouraged by his assurance, by his hopes which he cherish in his heart, that Government will be able to supply water to Greater Shillong in the near future to relieve the suffering Shillong public from the new source without further delay, without losing any time. Let me hope he will be successful and there is no reason why he will not be successful when strong determination is there, sincere efforts are there and I hope if there is real zeal it will not take longer time than 6 months to fill up the reservoirs. But I am afraid, since they have developed a tendency of lethargy for the proper execution of work they may not all of a sudden jerk and become awake and conscious of the situation. Let them to become conscious of their duty and let them be aware that the public of Shillong have become restive. Shillong is the capital of Meghalaya and is one of the most beautiful hill stations in the country but the latrines, sewerages and drainage system in Shillong are not now the scene of beauty. There are black spots here in the face of Shillong and the earlier their extinction is done the better it will be for the fair name of Shillong. But it cannot be expected to be done unless a fair supply of water is there and it can be ensured through that department, if the department is sincere to face a strong determination to do things in time and earnestly. So, Sir, these things I have already stated and discussed many times in the past also. But the file is missing, conferences were held, time was lost an unnecessary dialogue, unfruitful dialogue with the villagers. Time was lost unnecessarily with the contractors for purchase of unnecessary unwanted things. But I say Sir, that the most necessary thing which was to be attended to first was the site, unhampered site where there will be no opinion from any quarters and the time for settling up things with the people who are concerned in making land and the water source available to the Government. But valuable time was spent in entering into contract with the contractors for buying unnecessary materials and the question of the sit did not at all materialise or was finalised. I urge the Government that there should not happen in future and execution of the scheme should be taken up in right earnest so that the suffering people of Shillong can get the proposed supply of water as soon as possible. Regarding the rural water supply scheme, Sir, the fate of the people is the same as it is to the people living in Shillong. So Sir, in rural areas also, I want that the pace of development and the process of supply water to be made to different villages and to the rural folks should be speeded up so that in the matter of the most essential thing in life water which cannot be had without spending any money, without any Governmental effort and this most essential thing is water and it should be made available to each and every people in the State. This State is called "The abode of the clouds", which is the wettest place in the world but on account of the slackness of the Government, it is to me a dry State in so far as proper execution of water supply scheme is concerned. Sir, here in Shillong whatever we are getting now from the old existing scheme, there also I am constrain to inform the House that the supply of water is very very defective. It is mostly unhygienic and the water that we get in our locality, in my house, is full of mud and filth. It is not at all for human consumption. But helpless as we are, we cannot but drink that water which no civilized people would do. There is no system of filtration at the source. Water which accumulates at the source from the hills comes down to big reservoir with no proper system of sedimentation or filtration. This water is supplied to the public and in the rainy season, when there is monsoon in our region, all the filth from the hills comes down and accumulates at the source and so the water that we get is muddy, full of other unhealthy materials and is supplied to our houses thereby forcing the people to take that water which is unfit for human consumption. But in the absence of any good water or any other alternative source, they are compelled to take water and the diseases that are contained in the water we drink, is beyond our imagination. Shillong is at a height of above five thousand feet above the sea-level and when the entire State in a hill station, people are supposed to be very healthy, on account of its climatic condition but due to supply of unfit water, the general health of the bulk of the people is not at all good. The most common complaint from all aged persons is stomach problem. Why this stomach trouble ? About eighty per cent of the people are suffering from this stomach trouble. Why ? On account of this defective supply of unhealthy and unhygienic water. So Sir, I would like to urge upon the Government that filtration should be taken up at the source especially the source which was found out by the Public Health Engineering Department between Lawsohtun and Umlyngka village. The water here at the source can be filtered. In the Greater Guahati Water Supply in Assam's Capital the water of the Brahmaputra also is being filtered. But here in Shillong where we require to supply water to a minimum population of about three lakhs water is not being filtered. Is it not a stigma on the fairness of the Government ? In a town which happened to be a capital of the State of Assam and of the alter States which existed for about hundred years, it has got no filtration  system uptil now. Therefore, Sir, I urge upon the Government through you, that the earlier they take up the scheme to supply purified water to the Shillong town, the better it will be for the suffering people. Thank you Sir.

Shri D.D. Lapang :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the cut motion moved by hon. friend from this side. I would like to express my observation on the general policy of the Public Health Engineering in the State.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Are you supporting the cut motion ?

*Shri D.D. Lapang :- Yes, I am supporting the cut motion. This fact is to be admitted that water supply scheme is very important as water is the most important item. It is also an item which cannot be avoided. It is a need of the people which really affects their day-to-day life. it is really very regrettable to see, and I am fully convinced that the performance of the Public Health Engineering Department is not at all satisfactory. I presume that the Department might have tried their level best  and that they are doing their work properly. But the standard of work performed by them is still below the mark and so it does not bring satisfaction to the general masses. There are schemes that were taken up but not implemented and I doubt whether they will be implemented. We have been to the sites and we know that the Government has spent in a huge amount of money for the construction of building there. But the scheme could  not be fully implemented due to the fact that there is no water there. A question can be asked as to why the scheme could not be implemented or rather, why approval should be given to the P.W.D. to construct the buildings there form where water cannot be supplied. This type of scheme which cannot be implemented is rather a waste of public money and Government should look into this properly.

        Now, there is also a scheme prepared for the Nongpoh Civil Sub-division Complex but the scheme prepared by the Public health Engineering Department came to an account of Rs.68 lakhs-a fantastic amount. After conducting survey of the site for the Subdivision complex and after the appropriate Department had sent maps, site plans, etc. It came about that this cannot be implemented and so another site has to be found. The amount to be spent for water supply is beyond expectation-fantastic-and the Central Government will not agree to this amount. When I had the privilege of being in Office, we were asked whether any alternative site could be found and also to see that this amount of Rs.68 lakhs would not come to around a hundred lakhs towards the completion of the schemes relating to the subdivisional headquarters at Nongpoh. Public opinion was  sought as to what will be the most acceptable site. On consultation I am rather very much happy that the Public Health Engineering came down to Rs.38 lakhs. I am happy that they have at least adjusted. The amount seems acceptable for the scheme which can be implemented but why Rs.68 lakhs if with an amount of Rs.38 lakhs it can be implemented. Therefore, there is something wrong somewhere. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is really fantastic and sheer wastage because even with an amount of Rs.68 lakhs the scheme might fail. We have had occasions to ask the Department to find another site. This is really very unfortunate and it is a thing to be considered. Now the Public Health Engineering is very kind to say alright for the purpose of construction of the subdivisional complex and also to say "we are already to give 300 gallons of water a day for the construction of work". In view of this assurance, the P.W.D. has allotted work to the contractors on the assurance that the contractors in order to show their work at the earliest possible time. The contractors in order to show ability and efficiently, have started their work right away. They have unloaded the materials at the site but the sad side of it is that there is no water. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would request the Minister in charge of Public Health Engineering to look into this matter because the contractors will find a lot of difficulties. But they somehow carry on because of the blessing of the weather. They have rain water with which they can start the work and if there is no rain then they will be compelled to stop the work and so they will ask the Government to pay compensation for losses due to non-availability of water which has been assured by the Government. So this matter should be taken up immediately considering its importance.

        Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also wanted to raise one point. Some years ago there was a time when the then Finance Minister, Mr. B. B. Lyngdoh had assured the people that the water supply scheme at Umsning would be carried out by the Government. the scheme to be taken up would benefit as many as 12 villages. But this scheme was left untouched or kept pending and nothing has been done till today. Now the Hon'ble Minister is taking up the responsibility and time is very short at his disposal. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Government should look into this matter and see to it that this is implemented at the earliest possible time.

        I am very happy to say that the officers; like the Executive Engineer, Mr. Mukherjee, tried their best to implement this scheme. But I am almost convinced, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that the performance of the Chief Engineer is still below the mark-far below the mark, rather. We need a good officer who is very efficient and active with a sense of responsibility and understanding about the problem, who should see that the scheme is implemented with all sincerity and honesty. I would suggest to the Government that an additional officer be placed if the existing officer cannot cope or rather cannot deliver the goods to the people. There are also loopholes here and there and unnecessary material like G.I. pipes should not be brought without their immediate need as this is also a wastage for the Government. the Minister in charge will kindly look into this matter and unnecessary things should not be indented because they may be needed after many years to come. With these few words, I would request the Government, through you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, to do the needful and also to see that there are no losses. With these few words, I resume my seat.

Shri W.A. Sangma :- Mr. Deputy, Speaker, Sir, in support of the cut motion moved by my colleagues, I would like to bring certain information to the Minister in charge. it is needed very unfortunate that the Government has started step-motherly treatment towards Garo Hills and to solve some problems in Garo Hills in the matter of water supply. A number of schemes for which sanction had been given and work started have been abandoned. I will give an example, first the Dalu Water Supply Scheme, the work was going on at full speed, but I do not know the reason why the work has been abandoned. The same thing happens in respect of water supply scheme at Ampati. though the materials such as pipes etc. which have taken to the site of the work has been abandoned and all the pipes etc. have been removed from the site. Similarly, the water supply scheme in the suburbs of Tura, at Charangiri village, has been cancelled. Well, Mr. Deputy, Speaker, Sir, I was very happy when I was in the office, I discussed the plans for the current year, the Government of India in the Planning Commission, they realised the need for supply of pure drinking water to the rural population. On my request, they have increased the allocation for the current year which was agreed upon in the group discussion and after further discussion the Planning Commission has agreed to increase the allocations of fund for water supply by Rs.25 lakhs. Therefore, I do not see any reason why those works which have been sanctioned and started should be abandoned. A number of schemes that have been sanctioned and the work which had been started have been abandoned. I would like to get a definite reason from the Minister in charge for cancellation of sanctioned schemes. These are a few instances, but I have been told that a number of other schemes also have been abandoned. I would like to know the reason. We should have a uniform policy. I was encouraged to learn initially from the Government that they will all go for the Need Based Programme. If that is a correct statement of policy so the need was felt and the scheme was approved and sanctioned and the work was started, but why such scheme should be cancelled. So with these few words, I would like to have a definite and satisfactory reply from the Minister in charge. 

(At this stage the Speaker occupied the Chair).

 thank you Sir.

Shri B.K. Roy :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the cut motion moved by the hon. Member from Mawprem. While supporting his motion, I would like to make  a few observations because we are very much confused by the statements made in this House and given out to the Press also by the Medical Minister and also by the Finance Minister. In one statement it was sad that the greater Shillong water supply scheme has been abandoned, and in a Press Statement a different picture was given. the Minister was pleased to give a Press statement. I am not raising the question of privilege at this moment but in that statement he has stated that the scheme has been abandoned .....

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister Health etc) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the information of the hon. Member, I never gave a Press statement that the scheme has been abandoned ....

Shri Mahon Singh :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the information of the Minister on May 24, 1978, in his speech at a huge rally at Nongkrem yesterday, Shri Pohrmen said the plan to dam the Umiew River for the purpose of providing water to Greater Shillong, which was hanging fire for the last 25 years, has been dropped and that the whole "affair" was now "a closed chapter".

Shri B.K. Roy :- You see, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Hon'ble Minister said he has never made a statement, now you can see that he is misleading the House ......

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister Health etc) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like the whole thing .......

Mr. P.R. Kyndiah (Minister, Industries etc) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of information to the hon. Member, if you read it carefully the abandonment is not in relation to the damming of the Umiew River in the scheme. (Voices-yes, yes).

Shri B.K. Roy :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are very confused because the Finance Minister has stated on the floor of this House that the scheme has not been abandoned but it was only the shifting of the source. When the source is shifted Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is amounts to abandonment. The source is the main thing Mr. Speaker, Sir. When the source is shifted but the scheme remains, that may stand in theory only Mr. Speaker, Sir. Any way that is a different story. What I would like to say is the problem of water supply for the Greater Shillong remains as it was years ago and it has turned into heap of words, files and schemes. I would like to say that only in the Morning Radio News today it was said that the monsoon has gripped the whole of eastern India in a very bad way, and we are talking on the 26th June that there is no water while the monsoon is on. What a strange irony of fate ! This is all due to the inaction of the Department. If I am allowed to say so, not only in matters of water supply for Greater Shillong but also in regard to the stage and distribution of the existing water that is available in and around Shillong. Sir, when I talked about the existing sources, I mean that it is by a time old act of proclamation all the perennial sources within a radius of 7 miles of the centre of Shillong are within the control of the supply by the Municipality of Shillong. Out of this area, comprising the radius of 7 miles which is a vast area, we cannot be assured by the Health Minister that all the sources are tapped by the Municipality or P.H.E. The Municipality from time to time has given water lavishly to the Defence people and also to the private institutions. We have got water supply source at Wahrisa, Wahjalynnoh, Wahdienglieng, and the Upper Shillong source. These are the major sources. Out of the Wahdienglieng source, the major portion goes to the Defence and from Wahjalynnoh source, it goes to the St. Edmund's College. They are given water even for their swimming pool and that goes there while the clamour in Laitumkhrah still persists for bare potable water. This is a sad story about water supply and no effective steps have been taken to bring all these major sources lying within the radius of 7 miles. There are many small springs  but no regular survey has been made by our Public Health Department. The sources are not protected in the catchment area and even in the important sources contamination is going on. With the advent of monsoon, the position is worsened by surface contamination. Pollution by excreta of human beings and cattles is there. The sources are not protected by making them prohibited areas as it was in the past. As a result what we drink contains insects, rodents and also faecal matters. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am quoting this from the reports on the analyses by the Public Health Laboratory, Shillong, from time to time. No measure is taken to protect the sources from getting contaminated. the natural water comes as a blessing from the perennial source. With Natures Blessings we fight against the diseases. otherwise there might have been enough epidemic diseases to kill the whole population. this is about the source.

        Now, coming to the distribution, Sir, the population is increasing in the urban areas. A scheme of water supply for a population of 3,50,000 souls at the rate of 35 gallons per day per head was prepared for the Greater Shillong area. Even taking the present population of Shillong at 1 lakh we should get a supply of 10 gallons per capital. But we do not get it. This is due to inequitable distribution of water. Of course I do agree there is much of difficulty in making a balanced distribution with so much of topographical differences. In some areas it is over flooded and in others it is dry. How the distribution can be properly effected ? That is the vital question. Water pipes costing lakhs of rupees are installed. We find the pipes are there, the reservoirs are there, but anything flows through them except water. For example there is a big structure in the Upland area, very big structure which is supposed to be a water reservoir. But I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, not a drop of water has ever entered into that reservoir. This pipes from that reservoir are still lying there for years without any purpose. What a wastage of public fund. I do not understand why they are not used for some other projects. This is the way how Public Health Engineering is functioning and this is the way they look into the distributions system.

        Now coming to wastage any casual observer might have noticed that water overflows tanks and also from Municipal reservoir. I for one approached the Municipality times without number for fixation of ball-valves land to do away with tremendous wastage as from the tanks at Nongrimbah.

Mr. Speaker :- Why that, how could you approach the Shillong Municipality because the function is of the P.H.E.

Shri B.K. Roy :- That is under the P.H.E. Sir, I went to the Municipality has to be approached for who in turn has to approached the PHE for redress. We pay taxes to Municipality for water supply. So, we go to the Municipality with our complaints. Mr. Speaker, Sir, what I spoke about is mainly concerning the anomalies of the distribution system and wastage.

Mr. Speaker :- Of what P.H.E.? 

Shri B.K. Roy :- Instead of getting 10 gallons per capita of water we do not get even half of that. The fact remains that Shillong is having acute scarcity of water and the P.H.E. is failing to improve that situation. While supporting the cut motion I conclude by saying that the hon'ble Minister in charge of health may please come forward with a definite statement about the improvement of supply of water to the Greater Shillong area, as also about the improvement of the supply to Shillong as it exists in the sources in its summation in its distribution and about prevention of wastage. Without getting a definite assurance we will not withdraw the cut motion.

Shri Mozibar Rahman :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, as water is the first priority of human life the priority of the Government for sanction should come towards supply of water. In that matter I think the Government should pay its attention to water supply. In the rural areas of other States of India when a stranger comes for drinking water, when water is needed Coca-Cola is served.

Mr. Speaker :- No more Cocacola.

Shri Mozibar Rahman :- In our State we have neither Fanta nor Cocacola, nor water. We have been very grateful to the Hon'ble Leader of the Opposition that he has stated the earlier scheme as need based. But I am in doubt whether the works which were done earlier were need based. Whether interest of all people were fairly and squarely looked into. I am going to cite an instance. A few years back, there was a consolidated scheme in Paham Village near Phulbari. A year back, in the place of that consolidated scheme a few ring-wells were constructed at present and most of the ring-wells do not supply water. It is just before election, very near to Baham village another village is there which is known as Pathorkata just  half a mile away from the village, construction of the water supply scheme was starred there, boring was started and some materials were brought I think the Village which is only half a mile away from Paham could have been covered by the earlier scheme. But the first scheme was dropped. Even a few ring wells remained without water and I do not know why the new scheme has been taken up for Patharkata area. In this case, I have doubt as to whether the scheme was need based or politically based. A lot of canvassing has been going on when the ring-wells were based. Some big and influential village leaders were called for and given contract works for the ring-wells, but the majority of these ring-wells are not giving water. So I request the Government to go deeply into this question and assess the requirement of water according to the need and priority. I appeal to the Government to select some places or bazar areas near the permanent roads where there are visitors who come frequently for their daily business, priority of consideration should go to those areas. I think such places are many in number and I suggest that Government should be careful in selecting places for giving priority in water supply scheme. I am giving an instance. Rajabala is the second biggest bazar in Garo Hills next only to Garobadha. At Rajabala, the daily bazar is held and three to five thousand people from outside villages regularly come to Rajabala for their daily necessities. But in that bazar area, there is no water supply scheme and I think places like Rajabala for water supply scheme. With these few words, want to make another suggestion to the Government. Sir, in the Public Health Engineering Department, we have got high officials of the rank of Chief Engineer and we have got so many constructions works of the Public Health Department. But these works were carried out by P.W.D. I think by this process, the department is deteriorating in its efficiency. From now onwards, I think the Government should change this policy and entrust the work to the Department of Public Health Engineering itself. With these few words, I resume my seat.

Shri John Deng Pohrmen (Minister, P.H.E.) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I must be grateful to the hon. Member who brought this Cut Motion and I must confess that the Government is equally concerned if not more in relation to the acute water scarcity and not only in Shillong, but also in many areas in our State. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to be a little frank that the past performance of the P.H.E. is not really upto the mark as one of the hon. members said. This department had come into existence in our State of Meghalaya not a very long ago though during the composite State of Assam, it was started from a scratch, I should say. But this department came into being in 1971 in right earnest in our State. When the C.P.H.E.  was appointed, many of us had hoped that the P.H.E. Department being full-fledged department would really help solve the water problem in our State both in rural and urban areas. But unfortunately, it was not so. To cite an example, in 1974, the Government had surrendered, about 98 lakhs from P.H.E. and practically every year surrender takes place. Mr. Speaker, Sir, you can well appreciate that even last year, subject to correction, the surrender was about  Rs.40 lakhs. I will not accuse anybody Mr. Speaker, Sir, but then the members can very well imagine how this department has been surrendering money and why. It is really, I should say, a sick department in one way if I may be permitted to say so. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we from the Government side are really in right earnest and we would like to inform the House that we are determined to see that from now on there is improvement in connection with water supply. The hon. Member who moved the Cut Motion had pointed out mostly on Greater Shillong Water Supply Scheme though the Speaker and others had pointed out that it should not be so specific since the Cut Motion is more or less on the policy of the Government relating to P.H.E. Department. Well, in connection with the scheme for Greater Shillong, I would like to tell the House that investigations have been started as far back as 1965 and the investigation was completed some time in 1971. By 1972 the scheme was formulated and the estimated cost of rs.410 lakhs was designed for the population of Shillong. As per this scheme, the supply of water will be 157 litres per head per day. Now it went on from 1972. In 1976, after four years there was a still opposition from the people where the river has to be dammed at a place called Dkong because according to the design, it would submerge about 600 acres of land. Later on, it was revised with the hope that the people would come round. In the course of four years the scheme was received and in the process, the estimate went up to Rs.816 lakhs by 1976. Negotiations were made with the local people. One Government after another had tried to persuade the people but all failed. Even in the early part of this year 1978, if a record I happened to see in the file is correct, at least two ministers of the then Government went to Nongkrem some time in January, subject to correction and if I am not mistaken, it was the then Minister Revenue, Mr. Maham Singh and the Minister of State, Mr. Upstar Kharbuli. There it is seen in the note that they appreciated the opposition shown by the people of that area and an indication was there that if at all possible, they should find out another source. That is what I can see in the sheet. I want to be honest, I must say, Sir, when I took over on the 10th of March, a little over three months now, that so many Governments have come and gone but nothing was done to move the people of that area to agree to  the damming of the river Umiew near Nongkrem and after going through all the files, letters after letters, memoranda after memoranda had been submitted, resolutions passed and meeting with the Chief Minister and also Minister in charge of P.H.E. and every time there has been still opposition. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the members will realise that so much time had been taken but no head way could be made at all in spite of the fact that we from the present Government tried even to offer rehabilitation scheme to the landless cultivators. Even then, we tried ways and means to see how we could offer the scheme to the landless cultivators who are actual tillers of that particular area over and above giving compensation to the land owners. But even this genuine offer, sincere offer from the Government could not move people for very many reasons and therefore we had to consider whether an alternative site could be found out which somehow could avoid construction of the dam so that submersion of land and buildings could be avoided. therefore, I would like to make it clear to the House that we had not abandoned the scheme as such but only shifted the site. After a series of discussions and after surveys and all that we could avoid construction of the dam in the same river. With this, the Government is making out efforts to see that this proposal be taken up at the earliest possible time. It is not the intention of the Government to delay the matter. All of us feel the effect of water scarcity whether it is in Shillong or in the interior. Therefore, I would like to tell the House that it is not our policy to delay this but it is our sincere that this scheme should be taken up at the earliest possible. Then regarding the present water supply in Shillong as pointed out by the hon. member that it is very defective, the Government is quite aware of that. But when we are aware of such defects, it does  not mean that we are happy silent spectators. We are determined to see that such defects are rectified at the earliest. the only point I could not make out when the hon. member who moved the Cut Motion is about the unholy water. I do not understand whether he means spiritual water (laughter). But I must say, Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not possible on my part to reply to this unholy water as pointed out by the hon. Member Mr. D.N. Joshi. it is really surprising why the then Government should have given the okay to the Public health Engineering Department take up that scheme for constructing the P.H.C. building at Pomlum when no water supply was arranged. it was really a very serious mistake. We are trying to solve the problem at least by having a tube-well so that the centre could be made used by the patients and I hope Mr. Speaker, Sir, in a few months time we could manage to see that water arrangements are made for this primary health centre at Pomlum as well at Bhoilymbong. This is a big discovery that an estimate of 68 lakhs had come down to 38 lakhs as has been said and I also feel surprised that a scheme could be changed from 68 lakhs to 38 lakhs. But because  of the passing need and because of the urgency of the scheme in the interest of the area I would like to inform the House Mr. Speaker, Sir, that the scheme was redesigned to the effect that instead of for 50,000 souls it would be for 12,000 souls and it would be sufficient to cater not up to the year 2,002 but lessen. That was the original scheme designed for Nongpoh but later on because of the pressing need of the areas it was designed for a population of 12 thousand so as to have a breathing space and therefore, the estimate comes down to 38 lakhs. As for the construction of a temporary water supply scheme by the P.H.E. Department, the Public Works Department has been given temporary supply connection from the existing Nongpoh water supply scheme and the pipes for this temporary connection are being issued to Public Works Department by the P.H.E. Department. This is for the present information. 

Shri D.D. Lapang :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want a clarification on this point. The assurance given by this department that three thousand gallons a day would be supplied for construction work but according to the Hon'ble Ministers reply, it shows that the supply has not as I said taken place.

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister, Health) :- Because as I said the pipes are being supplied to the Public Works Department. As for Umsning, as pointed out and as was assured by one of the ex-Ministers for the water Supply Scheme at Umsning, this is being looked into. Recently we have received one memorandum in which if I am not mistaken this Umsning water Supply Scheme is one of the many subjects. So, the matter is being looked into by the Department. Regarding Step-motherly treatment as has said by Capt. W.A. Sangma, Leader of the Opposition, it is really very unfortunate that Garo Hills should be given step-motherly treatment because the fund allocation had been made prior to the 10th March, 1978.

        Therefore, I do not know whether the present Government should be blamed that Garo Hills had been given a step motherly treatment. We are grateful to him that while he was in office he had done his best when he had taken up the matter with the Planning Commission and the State had received bigger allocation of funds in this connection. We are also grateful to him that he had stressed the idea that priority should be given to the need-based programme, and the Government will try its best to honour the commitment. As for the scheme for Dalu and Ampati they have been already started but discontinued but cancelled. We do not cancel any scheme whether in Garo Hills, Khasi or Jaintia Hills when already started.

Shri W.A. Sangma :- On a point of information, it is not a fact that the people approached and complained that the work was not started and the Minister in charge gave an assurance that the work will be started.

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had not assured that the scheme would be discontinued, I did not say that.

Shri W.A. Sangma :- It is not a fact that the work had been started at Dalu ?

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister, Health) :- The scheme had been suspended due to some technical difficulties. Steps are being taken to see that the scheme is continued to be implemented. Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the points brought by the hon. member Mr. B.K. Roy ....

Shri W.A. Sangma :- What about the Chirangiri Water Supply near Tura which was sanctioned and what about Ampati ? All the pipes were taken to the site had been taken away.

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister, Health) :- So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am grateful to the hon. Member that he had mentioned that the pipes had been taken away. I think some time last year the pipes were taken, but it is not a fact that these pipes have been taken back however, I will enquire into this. Any way the information is welcomed and this will be looked into.

Shri W.A. Sangma :- What about Chirangiri Water Supply Scheme ?

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, that too will be looked into. regarding the points raised by Mr. Mozibar Rahman from Rajabala about the scheme of Paham Village about ring wells, he had asked why before election the scheme was taken up. Well Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding this tube-well the Department has to depend very much on the recommendation of the Central Ground Water Board (C.G.W.B.).

Shri Mojibur Rahman :- It is a ring well, not a tube well.

Shri John Deng Pohrmen (Minister, Health) :- Yes, this will have to depend on the recommendation of the G.G.W.B. and the P.H.E. will take necessary steps. Well, the charge of the hon. Member is that before election, I do not know which election he means, I presume the last General Assembly Election, that the scheme at Patharkuttah which is about 6 miles away to Paham. Now, the Central Ground Water Board had reported that at Paham, deep tube well will not be successful and so a few ring wells were sanctioned by the Government. But subsequently the Department will find out if a deep tube-well will be successful at Patharkuttah to cover up Paham village also. This scheme is in process. Then regarding Rajabala Water Supply Scheme, there is one suitable water source nearby and a ring well scheme has been sanctioned. So I do not know whether we have been able to meet the various points raised by various hon. Members including the hon. Member who moved the Cut Motion. I have been trying my level best to be frank and sincere to the House and we from the Government side are very much concerned with water supply schemes in our State. I hope with the co-operations of all the hon. members as they used to do inside and outside the House, many schemes would be undertaken and some schemes which are already under execution will be completed in a short time including the Greater Shillong Water Supply Scheme. With these few words I request the hon. Member to kindly withdraw his Cut Motion.

Shri Mukul Das :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to seek a clarification from the Hon'ble Minister regarding Pine-Wood Hotel.

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister Health) :- That is a new point.

Mr. Speaker :- You may ask for clarification only on those points raised by the hon. Members.

Shri Mukul Das :- I want a clarification from the Hon'ble Minister about Dalu Water Supply Scheme. The Government has started drilling and now everything is completed, sufficient quantity of water is also available and the work is in process. It is true according to the information of the Public Health Engineer, Tura Division, who has given me this information. The pipes have already been purchased for about 3 lakhs of rupees.

Shri Grohon Singh A. Marak :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, whether the hon. Member who has participated in the Cut Motion can seek clarification from the Hon'ble Minister beyond those points already raised by the hon. Members who have participated in the debate on the Cut Motion ?

Mr. Speaker :- As a matter of course, every hon. Member can also seek clarification only on the points that have already been raised by the previous speakers in the Cut Motion. Only on those portions and not on any new points, the hon. Members and also the hon. Mover of the Cut Motion can seek clarification. But in this case it is a new point altogether.

Shri Mukul Das :- Thank you. I want a clarification about Dulu Water Supply Scheme.

Mr. Speaker :- Whether your new point has been included in any of the speeches on the Cut Motion.

Shri Mukul Das :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Sangma has already raised this point. So I want a clarification whether this work, I have already said before, is completed or is under process now ?

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister, Health) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Department has to start first and then it will be complete.

Shri Mukul Das :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can say that the work is under process, it has already been started, water is available in sufficient quantity and now it has gone to that extent that it is completed.

Shri Jackman Marak (Minister, District Council Affairs) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, for your information, it was due to the general election which was held in March last time, that the scheme should not be completed early.      (laughter).....

Shri Mojibar Rahman :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, we want the Hon'ble Minister in charge to clarify when he said that water sources are not available at Paham village and that the scheme had been shifted to Patharkutta. Had the scheme been taken in that place which is about 6 miles distance from Paham then Paham could have been covered, instead he said some ring wells are sanctioned at Paham village. Whether the work is in progress now.

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister, Health) :- Your suggestion will be considered.

Shri D.N. Joshi :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the concern expressed by the Minister as we have equally expressed our concern for the improvement and successful implementation of water supply schemes already taken up and to be taken up, and also in view of the assurances that Government would gear up the machinery to meet the requirements of the people and in view of the earnestness that the Minister has expressed I implementing the schemes, I withdraw my Cut Motion.

Mr. Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to withdraw his Cut Motion (Voices-yes, yes). The cut motion is with leave of the House.

        Now let me put the main question before the House. The question is that a sum not exceeding Rs.3,20,50,000 including the sums already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1979 for the administration of the head "282-Public Health, Sanitation and Water Supply-B-Sewerage and Water Supply "283-Housing-C-Government Residential Buildings, 482-Capital Outlay on Public Health, Sanitation and Water Supply and 682-Loans for Public health Sanitation and Water Supply".

        (The Motion was carried and Grant No.28 was passed).

        Now the Minister in charge of Housing to move Grant No.29.

Shri Jackman Marak (Minister Housing) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that a sum not exceeding Rs.19,00,000 including the sums already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1979 for the administration of the head "283-Housing-I-A-General and B-Housing Schemes and 683-Loans for Housing.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion I put the question before the House. The question is that a sum not exceeding Rs.19,00,000 including the sums already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1979 for the administration of the head "283-Housing-I-A-General and B-Housing Schemes and 683-Loans for Housing.

        (Motion was carried and the demand was passed).

Will the Minister in charge of Urban Development move Grant No.30

Shri P.R. Kyndiah (Minister, Municipal : Administration, etc) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that a sum not exceeding Rs.2,75,000 including the sums already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1979 for the administration of the head  "284-Urban Development-A-General-I-Municipal Administration and 684-Loans for Urban Development."

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion. I put the question before the House. The question is that a sum not exceeding Rs.2,75,000 including the sums already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister in charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1979 for the administration of the head  "284-Urban Development-A-General-I-Municipal Administration and 684-Loans for Urban Development."

        (Motion was carried and the demand was passed).

Will the Minister in charge of Urban Development move Grant No.31.

Shri Jackman Marak (Minister-in-charge Town and Country Planning etc) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that a sum not exceeding Rs. 15,08,000 including the sum already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1979 for the administration of the heads "284-Urban Development -A-General-II-Town and Regional Planning and 484-Capital Outlay on Urban Development.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no cut motion, I put the question before the House. The question is that a sum not exceeding Rs.15,08,000 including the sums already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the 31st March, 1979 for the administration of the head "48-Urban Development -A-General-II-Town and Regional Planning and 484-Capital outlay on Urban Development."

        (The motion was carried and the demand was passed).        

        Will the Minister-in-charge move Grant No.32 ?.

Shri Rowell Lyngdoh (Minister-in-charge, Information and Publicity) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that a sum not exceeding Rs. 15,70,000 including the sum already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1979 for the administration of the heads "285-Information and Publicity."

Mr. Speaker :-  Motion moved. Since there is no Cut Motion, I put the question before the House. The question is that a sum not exceeding Rs.15,70,000 including the sums already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister- in- charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1979 for the administration of the head "285-Information and Publicity."

        (The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Will the Minister-in-charge move Grant No.33 ?.

Shri Jenden Ch. Marak (Minister, Labour, etc) :-  Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that a sum not exceeding Rs. 40,46,000 including the sum already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1979 for the administration of the heads "287-Labour and Employment-I-A-Labour 287-Labour and Employment-II-A-Labour-Inspectorate of Factories and Steam Boilers and 287-Labour and Employment-III-B-Employment and Training".

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no Cut Motion, I put the question before the House. The question is that a sum not exceeding Rs.40,46,000 including the sums already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister- in- charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1979 for the administration of the head "287-Labour and Employment-I-A-Labour 287-LAbour and Employment-II-A-Labour-Inspectorate of Factories and Steam Boilers and 287-Labour and  Employment-III-B-Employment and Training".

        (The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Will the Deputy Chief Minister move Grant No.34.

Shri S.D. Khongwir (Deputy Chief Minister) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that a sum not exceeding Rs.16,58,000 including the sum already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1979 for the administration of the heads "288-Social Security and Welfare-A-Civil Supplies, 488-Capital Outlay on Social Security and Welfare-E-Other Social Security and Welfare Programme-I-Civil Supplies Schemes and 509-Capital Outlay on Food and Nutrition.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no Cut Motion, I put the question before the House. The question is that a sum not exceeding Rs.16,58,000 including the sums already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister- in- charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1979 for the administration of the head " "288-Social Security and Welfare-A-Civil Supplies, 488-Capital Welfare Programmes-I-Civil Supplies Schemes and 509-Capital Outlay on Food and Nutrition."

        (The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

        Will the Minister-in-charge move Grant No.35.

Shri Jackman Marak (Minister, Social Security, etc) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that a sum not exceeding Rs.10,05,000 including the sum already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1979 for the administration of the heads "288-Social Security and Welfare-B-II- Relief and Rehabilitation of Displaced persons and 688-Loans for Social Security and Welfare-I-Relief Measures and Rehabilitation Scheme."

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Since there is no Cut Motion, I put the question before the House. The question is that a sum not exceeding Rs.10,05,000 including the sums already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister- in- charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1979 for the administration of the head " "288-Social Security and Welfare-B-II- Relief and Rehabilitation of Displaced persons and 688-Loans for Social Security and Welfare-I-Relief Measures and Rehabilitation Scheme.

        (The motion was carried and the demand was passed)

Now the Minister-in-charge of District Council Affairs to move Grant No.36.

Shri Jackman Marak (Minister-in-charge District Council) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the recommendation of the Governor, I beg to move that a sum not exceeding Rs.58,20,000 including the sum already voted on account for the relevant services be granted to the Minister-in-charge to defray certain charges which will come in the course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1979 for the administration of the heads "288-Social Security and Welfare-C III-Welfare of Scheduled Castes, Schedule Tribes and Other Backward Classes-D-Social Welfare and 688-Loans for Social Security and Welfare C-III-Welfare of Scheduled Caste, Schedule Tribes and Other Backward Classes ."

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. here I have received two Cut motion. Here I have received two Cut motion, one in the name of Shri Manik Das, which is a general policy cut and another one, in the name of Shri U. Kharbuli, a token cut. When I look into these Cut motions, I find that the motion of Shri Manik Das, although is a policy cut, is a very restricted subject in-as-much as it concerns only with the administration of the Government and with regard to the administration of the Autonomous District Councils. I believe, the members will confine their observation within that limit and will not encroach upon the day-to-day work and functioning of the District Councils which is beyond our concern.

Shri Manik Das :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the total provision of Rs. 58,20,000 under Grant No.36, Major head "288-Social Security and Welfare, at page 403 of the Budget be reduced to Re.1 i.e. the amount of the whole grant of Rs.58,20,000 do stand reduced to Re.1.

Mr. Speaker :- Motion moved. Now, you can initiate the discussion.

Shri Manik Das :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, the District Councils has celebrated the Twenty Sixth Year of its existence and I stand here today to put forward certain constructive suggestions to the Government. the Government should intervene into the functioning of the District Council.

        (At this stage, the Speaker left the Chamber and the Deputy Speaker took the Chair).

        As you are aware Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, since the Government is spending a huge sum of money for the maintenance of the District Councils, I take this opportunity to bring to the notice of the Government certain mismanagement, misappropriation and other administrative lapses which are going on in the District Councils. The Government should look into these for the larger interest of the State. First of all, I would like to touch upon the Finance Department of the District Council.

Prof, M.N. Majaw (Minister in charge of Law, Parliamentary Affairs etc.) :- Mr. Deputy, Speaker, Sir, on a point of order and as per ruling of the Speaker, there cannot be any discussion on the functioning of the District Councils. the purpose of the cut motion is to approve the policy of the Government and Government means this State Government with regard to the administration for the Autonomous District Councils in the State. As a matter of fact, we are a bit curious to know in what manner this discussion would proceed. But if it is going to proceed along the line which the mover is proceeding. I beg to submit Sir, that the actual work and functions of the District Council the subject matter to be discussed in this House. The District Council is an autonomous body.

Mr. Deputy Speaker :- Mr. Manik Das, I agree that the internal working of the District Council cannot be discussed here.

Shri Manik Das :- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to put forward certain suggestion on the floor of this House regarding the functioning of the District Councils.

        (At this stage, the Speaker occupied the Chair)

Mr. Speaker :- Mr. Manik Das, as a matter of fact, the State Government has no policy and which ever State Government comes into power, has no policy in regard to the administration of the District Council which is a constitutional matter already provided in the constitution. This is a very limited subject. The token cut of Mr. Kharbuli is rather very comprehensive and so you have to confine yourself within the limit.

Shri Manik Das :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in matters of Primary education, the Government is spending a huge sum of money for the maintenance of teachers. We find that the total number of primary schools have increased in the last couple of years with the result that the District Councils are finding it extremely difficult to maintain their educational department because some additional clerical staffs are required. I suggest that Government should sanction more money for the education branch of the District Councils. The Government should also provide adequate inspecting staffs to the District Councils. A Primary Schools Board should be created and the State Government should provide an officer from the Education Department to run this Board. In matters of Civil Work Department, the Government is not sanctioning adequate amount of money for the development works, As you are aware, Mr. Speaker, Sir, link roads, feeder roads and other roads connection villages should be implemented by the State Government and not by the District Councils. Last year, a total amount of about eight lakhs of rupees was sanctioned for Garo Hills District Council to look after the Civil Works Department. I suggest that for development works more fund should be given to the District Councils. At least 35 lakhs for Garo Hills and Khasi Hills District and 6 to 7 lakhs for the Jaintia Hills District. Since there is a duplication of works between the Rural Development Branch and the Civil Works Branch, I suggest that the Rural Development Branch be abolished. The teachers of the District Councils when they retire should get the pension benefit but at present they only get gratuity. I feel that the teachers of the District Councils should also receive pension benefits and for that, adequate funds should be released by the State Government.

        There are certain royalties which are being collected by the State Government agencies, for example, for minor minerals 60 per cent allotment from the royalty is given to the District Council and 40 per cent taken away by the State. As you are aware, the District Councils find it extremely difficult to run their administration and I may suggest that the Government should release this 60% share without much delay. If this share of 60 per cent is released to the District Councils promptly, the District Councils will be in a position to run various Departments efficiently. In some of the District Councils we have Secretaries appointed by State Government. In Khasi Hills and in Garo Hills we have Secretaries who do not belong to the Meghalaya Civil Services. These Secretaries remains in the District Councils for years together till the times they retire from service. I suggest to the Government that Officers from the Meghalaya Civil Service be deputed as Secretaries to the District Councils so that their tenure of 3/4 years the officer remains in the District till another officer is posted.

        As far as certain boundary are concerned, our District Councils are very much effected. As you are aware. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the District Councils is not in a position to take up inter-State boundary disputes with the neighbouring State like Assam. Therefore, because the boundary disputes have not been settled, the District Councils are losing a huge amount of revenue. To quote an example, Mr. Speaker, Sir, certain bazars, hats, fisheries and forests in Garo Hills District have been forcibly occupied by Assam. The people of Barahats Jinjiram and other areas like Rongsai are suffering though these areas are within our own State. The Government has not taken up this matter with the Government of Assam and so the District Council is losing a huge amount of taxes and money in the form of revenue. Land reforms in the District Councils have not been carried out so far because the District Councils do not have experts to carry out cadastral surveys. I suggest to the Government that officers like the S.D.Cs should be deputed to the District Council so that land reforms should be carried out immediately.

Shri J.D. Pohrmen (Minister., Health) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know how far it is true that land reforms should be carried out by the District Council. But as far as I know, land reform is being undertaken by the District Council and even grants have been given by the Government from year to year. I think they have also got qualified officers for that.

Mr. Speaker :- I think you are referring to the District Council of ....

Shri Manik Ch. Das :- of Garo Hills, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also suggest that a separate legislative Secretary be appointed in the District Council of Garo Hills because the Secretary has to look after the ....

Mr. Speaker :- That, I think, is their concern.

Shri Manik Ch. Das :- The Government has not adopted a uniform policy regarding elections to the District Councils. As you are aware, Mr. Speaker, Sir, elections have been completed in Garo Hills and Jaintia Hills. But the election to Khasi Hills District Council is yet to take place and I suggest that the election to the Khasi Hills District Council be completed as quickly as possible.

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, the District Councils are being run by the money given by the State Government. It is also the responsibility .....

Mr. Speaker :- And well spent.

Shri Manik Ch. Das :- And well spent. But I regret, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that the District Councils have become a paradise of corruption.

Mr. Speaker :- That is, of course, a wrong charge because it does not concern the Government. It is they who spend.

Shri Manik Ch. Das :- But the money is provided by the State Government and so it is the duty of the State Government to ensure that the amount is properly utilised. that is the reason why I have to bring this point here and I quote some examples, if I may be permitted, Mr. Speaker, Sir,....

Prof M.N. Majaw (Minister, Parliamentary Affairs) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order, his question is on the subjects which concern the internal working of the District Council. may I also point out that there are two types of subjects entrusted to the District Councils. One type is that the State Government only acts as a channel by which money is given to the District Councils. As a matter of fact, this is examined by the Legal Department and we are told that the Public Accounts Committee of the State cannot examine the accounts of the District Councils for those subjects which have already entrusted to them by the Constitution but only in those transferred subjects where the State Government uses the District Councils as an agency of the State Government. Only in those subjects can this Government or this Assembly examine the accounts of the District Councils and so the hon. Member should specify exactly what accounts he means but those subjects that have been entrusted to them by the Sixth Schedule of the Constitution. So it is only the District Council that can examine its own accounts.

Shri Bhaskar Choudhury :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I raise a point of order on the point of order raised by the Hon'ble Minister : whether it was a reply or a clarification on a point of order.

Prof M.N. Majaw (Minister, Parliamentary Affairs) :-It is a point of order.

Shri Manik Ch. Das :- I was to stress again that I am raising all those points only because there are certain amounts which are given by the State Government for the functioning of the District Councils. I feel the State Government has got every right to ensure and also to see that this money which has been provided by the State Government is properly utilised.

Prof M.N. Majaw (Minister, Parliamentary Affairs) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I repeat my point of order. Under article 275, funds are given to the District Councils. The use of it cannot be questioned by this House. The State Government acts only as a channel for sending the money from the Central Government.

Mr. Speaker :- Let us take that he has referred to the subject under which the money is given by the State.

Shri Manik Das :- I would like a clarification from the Government, Sir. the money which has been given by the Central Government through the State Government to the District Councils whether the State Government has got no right to see how this money has been spent, whether the State Government should remain silent spectator to the corruption and mismanagement in the District Councils ? Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to convey to the Central Government through this House that proper inquiry should be made for the misappropriation of funds and mismanagement in the District Councils. I, as a Member, Mr. Speaker, Sir, have every right to convey to the  Central Government through this August House regarding certain misappropriation of funds and mismanagement in the District Councils. the money which is being given to the District Councils by the Government in the form of grants is being utilised for different purposes, like the money which has been given by the Education Department for salary of teachers etc, is being utilised in some other departments of the District Councils. The State Government must intervene and see that the money that has been earmarked for a particular department should be essentially ....

Mr. Speaker :- Mr. Manik Das, I do hope you have a very good reason to charge that the District Councils have misappropriate the money. This is a very serious charge and while you say that you want it to be conveyed to the Central Government through the floor of this House, I do hope and expect that you can throw some light on it and bring specific instances. You cannot make a blanket charge on the autonomous body where there are elected representatives as they themselves would have taken up the matter.

Shri Manik Das :- As far as corruption and mismanagement of the District Councils are concerned ! I shall give certain instances ......

Prof M.N. Majaw (Minister, Parliamentary Affairs) :- This particular Grant No.36 is actually for money given for development purposes. It does not cover all the subjects he has referred to but we have been patiently listening, and under Article 275 ......

Mr. Speaker :- I said earlier that in the course of reply ; you reply only to the portions that are relevant. He has give a blanket charge on certain things which are the concern of this House and also those which are not of this House. So, naturally, the things which do not concern you, you need to reply. There is a limited scope for this particular Cut Motion.

Shri P.R. Kyndiah (Minister, Industries etc) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, before we proceed on the point of order, if the hon. Member proceeds even this manner on the discussion relating to the affairs of the District Councils, it may tantamount to infringement of the autonomy of the District Councils and I think it is not right and proper for us to go into these allegations, I feel this is not the forum .....

Mr. Speaker :- I have been asking the Mover to confine within the limited scope of the discussion. I do appreciate the anxiety of Shri Manik Das but this has a limited scope for discussion here. As a matter of fact, there are the right people to take up this matter, but if he keeps on talking about the affairs of these autonomous bodies it may tantamount to interference. I doubt whether you can take it up with the Central Government.

Shri Manik Das :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, as far as judiciary is concerned, I suggest that the judicial services between the District Councils and the State Government should be amalgamated. Mr. Speaker, Sir, since we as Members have got no right to point out the mismanagement and corruption of the District Councils on the floor of this House and since we are expected to remain as silent spectors.......

Mr. Speaker :- No, we are not silent spectators. The public are there and they are the ones who will be the last judge and if such things are there they will come out and the people will judge.

Shri Manik Das :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are the representatives of the people ....

Mr. Speaker :- But on limited subjects. We cannot pass judgment on the Parliament nor on the Central Government. Carry on Mr. Das.

Shri Manik Das :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have already put forward certain suggestions and I hope the Government would look into them and give the attention. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

*Shri S. Kalwing :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the cut motion moved by the hon. Member regarding the policy of the Government in the administration of the 3 District Councils in our State. Now these 3 District Councils in our State have been carved out 26 year ago ....

Mr. Speaker :- Not all three.

Shri S. Kalwing :- Under the same provision of the Sixth Schedule to the Constitution of India itself. As such, to me, I see that we have to look into them and see that these 3 District Councils enjoy the same treatment as they enjoy the same powers under the Sixth Schedule itself. Now these three District Councils in our State have been treated in different ways. I found that under this so-called clean and efficient present Government, these Districts in fact received unclean and in efficient treatment from the present Government. I will try to substantiate a few instances regarding the treatment of these three District Councils concerning the handling of the administration by the District Council Affairs Department of our Government.

        Now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, you will find that in the last Session we had in March, the Hon'ble Minister in charge of District Council Affairs brought forward some resolutions regarding the taking over of the administration of the Garo Hills District Council, Jaintia Hills District Council and the Khasi Hills District Council. Now in doing this, the Minister has referred to the position of the whole State. Just suppose even the provisions of Rule 115 (4) of the Rules of procedure and Conduct of Business were waived because of the urgency of bringing of these three resolutions within a few days. By suspending the operation of this Rule the Minister in charge of District Council Affairs gets through this resolution. What is this urgency ? I find that it is not at all an administrative urgency. It is a political urgency that prompted this waival of the Rules of procedures and conduct of Business in this House. Now, you will find in the Garo Hills District Council, the Minister brought forward a resolution to the affect that whereas the term of members of the Autonomous District Council expired on the 25th March, 1977. Whereas the term of the members of the Autonomous District Council extended by the Governor which renders it impracticable and whereas the election to the District Council was not conducted within the extended period of one year.

Mr. Speaker :- Mr. Kalwing, you are referring to Rule 115 and remarked that the Rule has been waived. Actually if you insist on that, it will tantamount to your challenging my ruling. It was not waived, it was suspended in accordance with Rule 316 and everything was in order.

Shri Snomick Kalwing :- Thank you for clarification, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The term of the District Council has been extended for the last one year as election could not be held. Now when the election can be held and it was really held on 18th May, 1978. Why any more extension was necessary but I find that the State Government has deferred the election, because they are still continuing  the same council they enjoy as members of the council was well as Minister. Here in Garo Hills, the District Council was dissolved just before the election. This will create some trouble and misunderstanding in the minds of the people. Now that in the position that happened in Garo Hills District Council and in Jaintia Hills District Council also. We find that the District Council Affairs Minister has brought forward some resolutions which amount to the taking over of the administration but not on the dissolution of these Councils on the 28th day of March, 1978. Then in Khasi Hills District Council, it is really very peculiar on the 1st day of December, 1977, the Budget or the Vote-on-Account of the District Council was rejected by the Executive Committee and which has been rejected by the majority of the members of the Council. Now right from the 1st day of December 1977 upto the 6th of June, 1978 nothing was done by the Government about the affairs of the Chief Executive Member which has been lodged by the members of the District Council on the 1st day of December, 1977. It is really surprising that the Governor of Meghalaya is pleased under clause (13) of Rule 2 of the Assam Autonomous District Council Rules 1951 to accept the resignation tendered by Shri B. Wanniang Member, Autonomous District Council. He has given the order and accepted his resignation upto 7th June, 1978. In this the efficiency of the Government as envisaged in the policy statement. This is the most inefficient and most unclean Government. Now, I will bring forward many lapses in the administration of the District Councils here in our State. The term of the present District Council expired on the 22nd of may, 1978 and the Government issued a notification extending its term on 25th may, 1978. The Government prescribed medicine when the patient is dead. They prescribed medicine after the death of the patient, which that the Government injected Medicine to this District Council to make it still alive now. The 22nd of May expired and on the 25th May they issued the order. The M.D.Cs are not appointed by the Government, they are elected by the public themselves. So the order passed by the Government is quite unfair, and unconstitutional when the District Council expired on May, 1978. These are the lapses that the Government committed regarding the administration of the District Council under the District Council Affairs Department of the Government. I therefore, appeal to the Minister in charge to se that these lapse should not be committed again in future. The purpose of this Cut motion as  moved by the hon. Member is to reduce the amount to Re.1 as a policy cut on the District Council administration. I have appealed to the Minister to see carefully that these lapses are not repeated in future. With these few words I support the cut motion and resume my seat.

Shri Albinstone M. Sangma :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, in supporting the Cut Motion moved by Mr. Manik Das, I would like to participate in the discussion. The Garo Hills District Council is really facing difficulty in taking action for improvement of primary education. One of the reasons is, there is no sufficient inspection staff to supervise the schools. Hundreds of primary schools are there but there are only few S.Is to supervise the schools of the District Council. The District Council had moved the Government to depute at least 11 S.Is of Schools and place them at the disposal of the District Council so that it will be in a position to supervise and manage the schools properly. But only 5 or 6 S.Is have been deputed so far to the District Council. A number of S.Is are still at the disposal of the D.I. of Schools. S.Is of Schools are meant entirely for inspection and supervision of the primary schools. They are not meant for inspection of M.E. schools, and only on the authority of the D.I. of Schools, they can inspect the M.E. schools. When S.Is are meant for inspection of primary schools, then why all the S.Is of Schools under the D.I. are not deputed tot he District Council. Mr. Speaker, Sir, almost every year a number of new schools are opened and accordingly teachers are appointed. But the number of inspecting staff is remaining the same. How is it possible for the Executive Committee of the District Council to take necessary action for improvement of the primary schools. There are so many other difficulties also faced by the District Council. When the then Director of Public Instruction, Mr. Jafa, visited Garo Hills the Executive Committee requested him to come to the District Council to discuss the burning problems of the primary schools. He has very kindly gone there and discussed the problem. After a serious discussion, a good scheme has been formulated and submitted to the Government for implementation. According to that scheme, one senior officer of the rank of Inspector of Schools should be appointed and under him there should be one D.I., one A.D.I., and at least 11 S.Is of Schools. The cost of maintenance should be borne by the State Government. Why 11 S.Is are necessary because there are 11 blocks. If one S.I. is posted in every block, then he can supervise the schools under that particular area. The teachers should not go to the District Council at Tura  wait for days together for preparation of their bills. When an S.I. is posted in the block level, then the teachers under the block area can go and submit their pay bills there. If there is any local complaint against a particular teacher, then the people also can go to the S.I. concerned and the S.I. in turn, can take necessary action against any particular teacher of school, if required. But now if there is any complaint, they are required to go to Tura and wait there and discuss there with the E.M. in charge or the Executive Committee. They have to spend days together in Tura. Had there been one S.I. posted at the block level, then all these troubles would have been minimised to a great extent. Accordingly, in that very good scheme, all these things have been included. So I urge upon the Government to look into that particular scheme and try to implement it so that the District Council will be relieved of certain burdens in respect of primary education. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the problem is there for the S.Is who will be posted in the block level. They require quarters as they have got their families also. But there are such places where they will get even a small shed. There should be one office room and furniture should be supplied there for which the District Council has moved the Education Department and also requested the Community Development Block to spare at least one or two rooms in the Block headquarters for the S.Is so that the S.I. can occupy them. In this way, if Government can take action, I hope many problems can be minimised to a great extent.

        Mr. Speaker, Sir, of course one Text Book Committee was appointed by the Government. But I do not know whether that committee is functioning or not. There has no good and relevant text books for primary schools especially arithmetic books.

Shri Jackman Marak (Minister, District Council Affairs) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order. We are discussing about grant No.36. But this subject of education is under Grant No.21.

Shri Albinstone M.Sangma :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is connected with the District Council. I am bringing this suggestion so that Government can take necessary action. So a Text Book Committee should function properly and prepare necessary and relevant text books thereby primary education can be improved. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in respect of District transport, here also the District Council is finding difficulty in running their transport. The Meghalaya Government has placed a number of buses in almost all the important routes in the district of Garo Hills. So, why should there be duplication of work. That is why the District Council has moved the Government to take over the District Council transport and accordingly, the Government has sent an officer to enquire and check the balance sheet. For a number of days and weeks, the officer was there. He has completed the checking and submitted the report of the department. But uptil now no action has been taken with regard to the taking over of transport from the District Council. Here, I would also like to urge upon the Government to take over the District Council transport so that the difficulty can be minimised to a great extent.

        In revenue matters, Mr. Speaker, Sir, during Assam's time, zamindari land was there in Garo Hills District, the Assam Government has acquired that zamindari land on condition that reasonable compensation will be paid to the zamindars. Now who will pay the compensation whether the District Council or the State Government when the Government has acquired the land and handed over to the District Council for management only the State Government should pay. But now the Government is asking the District Council concerned to pay the compensation is to the Ex-zamindaris. As you know, the District Council fund position is very bad, they are not in a position to pay the compensation when lakhs are involved. Therefore, the District Council has moved the State Government to kindly come forward for payment of compensation to the Ex-zamindars. But the State Government say that hey cannot give the money as grant, but as loan. It is known fact that the District Council fund is very poor. They are not in a position to pay this compensation payable to these zamindars. In this way the interest on the principal has also increased like anything, for years together. So I would suggest that the State Government should pay the compensation payable to the Ex-zamindars .....

        So, I would suggest to the State Government to pay the compensation payable to the Ex-zamindars whatever loan taken by the District Council. The money must be treated and also whenever amount was given by the District Council. Say 6 to 7 lakhs of rupees that amount also should be reimbursed by the Government and in this way, the State Government should come to the help of the District Council. Mr. Speaker, Sir, whatever amount is given for land the form scheme is quite meagre. That is why it is difficult for the District Council to under take the cadastral survey of big area lying unsurveyed in the district. Many people want to have their A.P. land converted into Permanent Patta. But unless the land is cadestrally surveyed it is not possible for the Executive Committee. That particular land can be converted into periodic patta land if it is under cadastral arear. Many local people want to take loan, say, housing loan and agriculture loan from the Government of bank. But they do not accept A.P. Patta as security they wanted P.P.Patta land. That is why many people wanted to have their land converted into a Periodic patta land. But it is difficult on the part of the District Council has been submitting the land Reform Scheme every year but only a small amount, say 1/3 of the total amount was made available to the District Council. So, unless sufficient money is sanctioned for this scheme, the people will be on an unending suffering. They would be able to get the loan from the Government. So Government should consider it seriously. Now, there are community lands belonging to the Nokma and clan people.  They come forward giving their lands for settlement to some persons belonging to their own community. They have given them their written consent to get the land settled. Unless they are properly surveyed, it is difficult for the Executive Committee to give settlement.  That is why some of the Nokmas refund to give their lands saying that I have given my land since long but he has not been able to get the necessary patta. Only on verbal agreement with Nokma the local people occupied the lands and planted two or three trees, and after 10 or 15 years some of the trees bear fruits but since that particular man has got the settlement over the land, some cunning Nokmas, what they do, they want to take the land back. In this way, many difficulties are there. For this, it is very necessary that sufficient money should be sanctioned by the Government for those works as stated by the hon. Mover of the Cut Motion. This inter-district boundary dispute is very much there  between the Garo Hills District and Goalpara. Some cultivable lands also fall within Goalpara district. According to our map they are very much within Garo Hills- but Assam Government claimed that they fall under Assam. In this way, many border hats are affected and as a result, we lose a heavy revenue from them. So, Government should take up this matter immediately to settle this boundary dispute so that they will not effect our source of revenue. Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the hon. Mover of the Cut Motion has spoken much about this, I will conclude my speech here. Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir.

* Shri Jackman Marak (Minister, District Council Affairs, etc) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have listened to the observations of the hon. members who have taken part in the discussion. Certain suggestions, certain observations are  not correct because mostly the hon. Member from Mahendraganj has spoken regarding allocation of money to the District Council. He has spoken about the provision of money for the Primary Schools but that does not fall under this Grant No. 36. It comes under Grant No.21. This grant No. 36 is specially provided for the development schemes, not for schools, not for the Education Branch. So, in general I want to reply to the proposal of providing funds for other developmental schemes. Here indirectly, they support development  schemes already provided for Khasi Hills District Council. Jaintia Hills District Council and Garo Hills District Council. Altogether an amount of Rs.58,20,000 has been provided Sir, this amount will be utilised for the development schemes and another one, the royalty, I would like to inform the House that on royalty from mines, at least 60 per cent goes to the District Council is. This is under consideration and examination of the Government. Since last year the then Government tried to examine this also and this Government is pursuing the matter. So, Sir, it is going on.

Shri Manik Das :- On a point of information, I had not disputed the 60 per cent. This is a share of the District Council but only I had pointed out that this 60 per cent is not realised by the State Government.

Shri Jackman Marak (Minister, District Council Affairs, etc) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, that 60 per cent I repeat Sir, this is under the examination and consideration of the Government. So Sir, Government is considering when this can be realised.

Shri Manik Das :- Not very clear Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Shri Jackman Marak (Minister, District Council Affairs, ) :- This depends on the execution by the technical officers.

Shri W.A. Sangma :- I cannot understand that the hon'ble Minister said. The decision already made by the composite State of Assam was that the royalty accrued from the minerals, 60 per cent will go to the District Council and 40 per cent to the Government so far  I can understand. What is there to be further examined? It is a question of realising the share accrued by the District Council. Therefore I do not know what is to be examined. In fact there was a thinking that since certain royalty was connected with the Forest Department it was to be examined whether in taking the account of the previous year advance is to be given to the District Council. Here in the budget speech it is said that necessary assistance will be extended to the District Council to discharge their function in primary and development transactions. It will be the constant endeavor of the Government to assist all possible financial assistance and also by ensuring their effective functions. I would be very much happy to know from the Minister in charge if such a matter is to be examine.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh :- I would like to share the view as to why a simple question of realising the funds of 60 per cent should take 25 years I expect that this three months' Government will expedite within one year. 

Shri Mozibar Rahman :- There are more agencies between the State Government and the District Council.

Shri Jackman Marak (Minister, District Council Affairs, ) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, as far as possible the Government is trying to speed up the work.

Shri Manik Das :- Will the Hon'ble Minister specify the time limit?

Mr. Speaker :- Well we can wait for 25 year years.

Shri Jackman Marak (Minister, District Council Affairs, ) :- It may take 30 years or 40 years.

Shri W.A. Sangma :- The share payable to the District Council for the last 25 years is on ad-hoc basis.

Shri B.B. Lyngdoh :- On the point of order. This is not a time for the debate. After the reply of the Minister in charge we can seek clarification. 

Shri Jackman Marak (Minister, District Council Affairs, ) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I cannot speak smoothly.

Shri D.N. Joshi :- He is insisting on speaking roughly.

Mr. Speaker :- May I have the idea of the time you require to conclude your reply ?

Shri Jackman Marak (Minister, District Council Affairs, ) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, only five minutes.

Mr. Speaker :- Is it the sense of the House that the sitting be extended till the Minister finishes his reply ?

(Voices : yes, yes)

Shri Jackman Marak (Minister, District Council Affairs, ) :- There are so many speakers. Let me come to the next point raised by the hon. Members. I do not know this constituency, may be from Jirang. He said that he administration of the District Council is taken over by the Government. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Garo Hills District Council has gone peacefully. Why, because the preparation of electoral rolls and the delimitation of the constituencies which was started in 1976 and within 1977 were completed. So, the election could be held in the month of May this year. Then with regard with Jaintia Hills District Council also after along preparation of the electoral rolls and the delimitation of the constituencies the election could be held. The new Executive Committee of the Garo Hills District Council could be formed and I expect that the members of the Jaintia Hills District Council could form the Executive Committee peacefully. But why the Khasi Hills District Council election cannot be held early. There is difficulty. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in preparation of the electoral rolls and the striking of the names of those persons who are not eligible to cast their votes. Then the delimitation of constituencies also has to be completed. That is the reason why it is delayed. Sir, I am very glad to reply to one more point raised by the hon. Member. There are three District Councils' elections could not be held, as I said  earlier in view of all these things. But the Government did not think of making such delay to hold these elections to the District Councils. It is true that we from the Government side want these elections to be held and the people also. But as I said it takes time in preparing the electoral rolls and striking of the names of the persons who are not eligible to vote. I moreover, delimitation of all constituencies also could not be completed speedily inspite of our efforts. That is the reason why we could not hold the elections simultaneously in the three District Councils. 

        Next Sir, the hon. member from Rongrengiri has raised done point which is not at all to be discussed now since it is connected with this Grant No. 36. This is under Grant No.21.

Shri Albinstone M.Sangma :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order, this is very much within the purview of the District council. That is why I raised these points for the reply of the hon'ble Minister.

Shri Jackman Marak (Minister, District Council Affairs, ) :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the inspecting staff, since 1972 upto 1976, all the District Council had been requesting to appoint these inspecting staff because here are hundreds and thousand of teachers under the managements of the District Councils. I also know it very well (laughter). But it is very difficult Mr. Speaker, Sir. As stated by the hon. Member from Rongrengiri, that for 11 blocks, 11 inspecting staff, are required. Yes, that is correct because only with the present inspecting staff of Sir. Is of Schools it will be very difficult to cope with the works. So Sir, the Government will look into these problems. Then regarding grant of books to the students, the Government will look into this thing also. So Sir, with this I request the Mover to kindly withdraw his cut motion.

Shri Manik Das :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had mentioned about the appointment of Secretaries but the hon'ble Minister has not mentioned anything as to what is the policy of the Government in these matters.

Mr. Speaker :- I do not think there is a policy on the part of the Government. It will be under the control of the District Council. In any case the Government's responsibility will be there.

Shri Manik Das :- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am indeed very grateful to the hon'ble Minister and in view of the assurance given by him and while appreciating the difficulties expressed by him, I withdraw my cut motion.

Mr. Speaker :- Has the hon. Member leave of the House to with draw the cut motion ?

                                                                                                                                                                                             

ADJOURNMENT

(Voice : Yes, yes .......)

        The cut motion is with leave of the House withdrawn.

        Now the House stands adjourned till 9-30 A.M. tomorrow the 27th June, 1978.

      Dated Shillong,

              D.S.KHONGDUP,

the 26th June, 1978.

Secretary, Meghalaya Legislative

              Assembly.

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